I have mixed feelings on this guy. I saw the Oliver Stone biopic this weekend, and he was definitely portrayed to be too much of a hero in my opinion. I'm not sure what he did really helped Americans to be any safer. On the other hand, I like the idea of the government being held accountable when they overreach into our personal lives.
What do you guys think?
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He did more harm than good. Put him on trial.
>What Do You Guys Think
Saged and hidden.
What's to get. He gave up everything and has nothing to fucking show for it. He's still an idiot cuck.
Yeah fuck the people who made modern technology and civilization possible. I bet you wish you could live in a mud huts and throw sticks with rocks tied to them all day while starving with a flesh eating disease that just claimed another of your fingers on your left hand today. Sounds glorious.
Watch Citizenfour, it's the actual footage from the hotel. Judge for yourself by watching what actually happened in that hotel in China.
I personally feel he's a hero. The USA government was violating out 4th Amendment rights for years. He exposed it while making sure what was released was vetted and no lives were put at risk.
You know if you highlight it and click the post number it'll quote for you.
I'm not quite sure what the government could have on me since I don't use social media.
Indifferent.
Do you use email? A phone? Text? Have a webcam/microphone on your computer? It affects you if you do...
>Citizenfour
I saw that documentary and really liked it when it came out, it was definitely trying to show him in a positive light as well, though.
I definitely agree with his stance on privacy, but I'm unconvinced that it didn't interfere with anything the NSA was doing to keep Americans safe.
he believed it was the best thing for the American people.
without him nobody would know for certain
prior to that the notion they were bulk collecting was owned by the tinfoil hat crowd
He is a narcissist and a traitor. He stole a bunch of defense information but no one seems to recall that. Since he also exposed the privacy thing he is considered a hero. He's just a faggot with an inferiority complex.
>he believed it was the best thing for the American people
I buy that. He honestly seems like a good guy to me with good intentions overall.
This article does a pretty good job of talking about the other side of the argument, although it's pretty harsh:
>He also pilfered, and leaked, information about a separate overseas NSA Internet-monitoring program, PRISM, that was both clearly legal and not clearly threatening to privacy.
>his revelations about the agency’s international operations disrupted lawful intelligence-gathering, causing possibly “tremendous damage” to national security, according to a unanimous, bipartisan report by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Yea maybe he should have selected what would be published himself rather than letting journalists do it.
im sure that would have had its own set of challenges
Which is pretty hilarious, given that the washington post picked half of what was actually released to the public.
>its own set of challenges
Exactly. With over 1.5 million documents it would have been nearly impossible for him to pick and choose what to hand over in that amount of time.
>the washington post picked half of what was actually released to the public.
The irony is palpable.
I still think overall he was a net positive for informing the public on the kind of programs the government will put in place. I just really think he could have thought of a better way to go about it.
>not sure he helped americans to be any safer
That's the stupidest reason to dislike anyone.
You alone are responsible for your safety. Freedom is naturally unsafe you spineless fuck.
The natural world places hard bitter consequences upon every decision a person makes in life, even the good decisions.
it is not the place of government to stand between a man and the consequences of his actions.
If the USA has secrets critical to the safety of all US citizens, that government is, without exception, leveraging that power to hold us ransom. This "safety" is far worse than a free and open state of affairs that might be a little too harsh for lily-livers like you.
The truth is that regardless of his intentions he was extremely careless.
He was an IT guy that didn't deeply understand the meaning of the documents he was leaking.
So he just handed them to journalists, thousands and thousands of documents, most of them bearing no relevance to 4th emend breaching, and which clearly he didn't know very well what were really about
Most of that stuff was not being collected in a wide dragnet.
Reread the reports.
Also, I want to tag on that I think he did far more harm than good to our intelligence apparatus.
government shouldnt have any secrets. Thats a Utopian idea, of course, but in real terms... our government has too many. He did the right thing.
Get fucked boot licker. I hope his actions directly caused the deaths of many of US agents and soldiers that were illegally engaging in imperialistic interventionism.
Our government is lawless and anyone that takes action to prevent the expansion of this behavior is a hero.
I completely agree.
Now, tell that to every one else.
The positive media portrayal leads me to believe the guy is a plant
The media never gives a fair shake to anyone who rocks the establishment - we've all seen how biased they are.
I don't know what the angle with him is. Maybe it was just to normalize the idea that everyone is being spied on, and so force a level of self-censorship on everyone? Did they think they could actually get him into russian security networks?
I really don't know, but nothing he's released has been much of substance, whereas people like Assange get the literal book thrown at them. I think that's something trump senses and why Trump has such a negative opinion of snowden.
i do my best, daily, here on the web. cheers.
>That's the stupidest reason to dislike anyone
You're taking what I said too literally. I meant what he did not who he is.
>Freedom is naturally unsafe
totally agree
>If the USA has secrets critical to the safety of all US citizens, that government is, without exception, leveraging that power to hold us ransom
What if revealing those secrets makes the threat even worse? Suppose the NSA finds out about an attack to place on a particular date, and they announce it to the public. Isn't that sort of playing your hand? They would be better off keeping it secret so they could thwart it when the time is right.
> muh freedom of information
Wake up, the world is designed to run largely in secrecy. It always has been and always will.
Out there is a mess, espionage, terrorism, black ops, economic interests, geopolitic interests, etc.
The modern-era flow of information we are experiencing is actually a controlled illusion... in the end we end up lost in a sea of information and disinformation that is so entangled that we can't really tell one for the other.
Freedom of information generally means to give someone permission to use information for their best interests
>He is a narcissist
>with an inferiority complex.
hmm...
Character assassination is the first class in "killing the messenger 101"
>positive media portrayal
When I was thinking about this again (really the first time since it happened) a few days ago, most of the articles I saw were critical of him. Looking now I'm hard pressed to find any that don't act like he's a hero.
Made me think
No because if they tell everyone of the plot, we can be extra vigilant and cap the motherfucker or avoid the area altogether.
That or the terrorists would cease their attack because it's not a surprise anymore.
Also, why would an intelligence agency get the privilege to withhold information from people who could use that knowledge to make their own personal risk assessment whether or not they place themselves in possible harms way?
>To start, I'm not a shill for the ANTEESTABULSHMUNT, but I think what Snowden did was somewhat of a service...
So, let's say right now- we live in a just and prosperous world with a US Government that is only using these "spying" tools to ONLY get the most cold-blooded killers who want to destroy American Freedom. That's awesome, we can all agree.
What happens when there is an Administration that is the exact opposite? What happens when we get a Government that wants to use Precedent to trample on our rights?
Right now: the Government can look into your Internet/personal history if they think you are an extremist. If you are on ISIS twitter accounts, if you are posting anti-west propaganda, if you want to kill infidels. Awesome, they find you, they waterboard you. Cool! The good guys win.
What happens in a few years-decades? Let's just say the SJW win? We are now living in a leftist-filled society, where Code Pink runs the government? What happens then? OUR way of thinking- our beliefs- are now on notice. WE are now the terrorists for even SPEAKING OUT against the establishment.
This is the problem with the control of thought, this is the problem with "thought Police" We may think-at the moment-our cause is just and true. But with any Democracy, this could change in an instant... or slowly over time.
In the end, in the worst case scenario- we loose... and we loose big time.
The thought of "I'm not doing anything wrong, so what's the worry?" is the most dangerous power you can give to a group of power-hungry overlords. Because, maybe not tomorrow... maybe not next year... but EVENTUALLY, this powergrab will be used against the next revolution.
We are freedom lovers. We are people. We are thinkers and believers. We are Americans, and the ones around the world who actually live breath and die Freedom. The fact we can even have this discussion is the dream of many around the world.
Because it's a legitimate scandal worthy of revealing.
The corporate media wants corporations to not get backdoor'd by the NSA and then get hacked and lose business to China when they find an exploit or people stop buying our products out of fear of spying.
>He also pilfered, and leaked, information about a separate overseas NSA Internet-monitoring program, PRISM, that was both clearly legal and not clearly threatening to privacy.
>clearly legal
>clearly threatening to privacy
I'm sorry, but whoever wrote this doesnt know shit about PRISM. It's quite literally unconstitutional in the US by both the first and fourth amendment. Chilling effects are covered by the first, reasonable expectation of privacy is covered by the fourth. And then we can get into the bit where the NSA has footage from the bedrooms of children as obtained from their webcams. I'm sure that's also legal and "in the interests of national security".
>his revelations about the agency’s international operations disrupted lawful intelligence-gathering, causing possibly “tremendous damage” to national security, according to a unanimous, bipartisan report by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
The intelligence agency finds against the person who leaked the records of the intelligence agency.
limited hang out operation
you guys call yourself cynical? If you see someones face plastered across the news and now feature film, its because (((they))) want it there.
>cap the motherfucker or avoid the area altogether
>cease their attack because it's not a surprise anymore
If they were smart they would change the date, location, and means of communication. That would render announcing the knowledge of the attack a complete failure.
>Also, why would an intelligence agency get the privilege to withhold information from people who could use that knowledge to make their own personal risk assessment whether or not they place themselves in possible harm's way?
Because that disrupts people's lives, and can cause a city-wide panic. A city like New York couldn't handle everyone in a few square miles losing their shit.
The media reactions are mixed at best. Look how the Washington Post turned on him.
>the slippery slope
I think this is one of the best arguments in favor of what he did. He tried to stop it so it didn't progress to the point of a complete Orwellian dystopia.
>NSA has footage from the bedrooms of children as obtained from their webcams
I thought that was xkeyscore
>The intelligence agency finds against the person who leaked the records of the intelligence agency.
Definitely a good point.
With this latest ratings-hungry, partisan BULLSHIT of an election, we forgot one thing: Personal Freedom.
Unions, special interests, egregious lawsuits, the buying of government officials through corporate dollars, and the fact the Government HAS THE WAY TO BE BOUGHT BY CORPORATE DOLLARS takes us away from reality.
We need to push back. We forgot our heritage as Americans/Freedom lovers across the globe.
We are adults, we are creators. We can fend for ourselves. Yes, a Government will always be necessary. But necessary in our everyday life? That is not what the founders of this country would have wanted.
We bleed, we sweat, we create, we innovate.
This government created by the special interests and this government that has morphed into a disgusting money/power grab-enriching only themselves-should and must be demolished to make it for the People by the People.
Washington DC is home to the nation's most AFFLUENT INCOME EARNERS. washingtonpost.com
Tell me again that politics is a "public service"?
THIS IS NOT ABOUT TRUMP AND CLINTON (even though Trump will win)
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE R'S VS THE D'S
THIS IS ABOUT THE P'S VS THE G
THE PEOPLE VERSUS THE GOVERNMENT.
We must stand together to stop this bullshit corruption once and for all.
EDWARD SNOWDEN IS A HERO!
en.wikipedia.org
Prism gets video, though you are correct it was xkeyscore that takes the "user activity" data.
It would be interesting to see whether prism was picking up the recent facebook microphone bullshit.
Snowden is a hero look at how much positive change has come from his revelations. He's shown us that we're all being lied to. This has changed the world!
Patriot.
He's a primary reason for the resurgence of actual conservatism in this country.
He proved that our hesitation in ever trusting the federal government was completely and utterly justified, and shined a light on massive domestic spying operations.
Inb4 'not my problem nothing to hide', it was wrong and it was illegal and Snowden did all that he could do to stop it, full stop.
>It would be interesting to see whether prism was picking up the recent facebook microphone bullshit.
What do you think that new NSA data center in Bluffdale Utah is for. If it's a capability and technically possible why wouldn't the NSA be exploiting microphones. Signal analysis is thier job...not their job to do it on American citizens but hey...that's just what bad governments do.
Wow yeah you're definitely right on that. It seems one of the biggest problems with xkeyscore was that if someone was a threat, one could look at any second or third party connections and instantly be given access to webcams, microphones, chat logs, and more. Maybe PRISM was operating under that same system.
More people are aware of NSA surveillance because of Snowden.
Prism was only "upstream" data collection, directly wiretapping and recording microphones without user permission was xkeyscore and other "user activity mining" programs.
The Facebook mobile recently was found to have been recording users and sending the information back to facebook for "advertising purposes". The question then becomes would PRISM pick up this information as "upstream" collection.
PRISM was a bulk data collection scheme, it just scrapped everyone's HTTP and HTTPS requests and saved it. This data could then be looked over later and HTTPS could be potentially broken via logjam.
he really should have tried to do thing legally first.
Contact a US senator that would have something to gain as being the senator to expose obama NSA abuse. That senator could have subpoenaed him to testify and hand over the evidence to congress.
>we can be extra vigilant and cap the motherfucker
Governments don't promote vigilante justice, nor should they.
>That or the terrorists would cease their attack
Then they would do an inventory of all the mistakes that got them noticed and come back with a real surprise a few years later. Like a virus, it's going to develop resistance if you don't take it out all at once.
>why would an intelligence agency get the privilege to withhold information
Intelligence isn't an open book, that defeats the entire purpose of it, which is to provide advantages against the enemies of the state it gathers intelligence for. If you give intel to the people you've made it a thousand times easier to be infiltrated by spies.
hello
excuse english
I thinku snowden verry good
Really causes my neural cells to depolarize by opening gated channels in the membrane and passively diffusing potassium ions out of the cytoplasm down its concentration gradient leading to a sequence of action potentials to stimulate in accord with long term potentiation pathways developed through the release of seratonin at key moments of sensory input.
hes a hero now cuz trump wants his blood.
im serious.
I have a pretty low opinion of New Yorkers but I think they would be able to handle something like that pretty damn well to be very certain. They did have 9/11 happen to them and stood strong.
he helped design and run many of the programs. snowden is probably a genius. he was cia before even being 25 i think. stupid hue
>They did have 9/11 happen to them and stood strong.
After the fact sure, but if the press had announced that the world trade centers would be attacked I can guarantee mass panic would have ensued. It's a huge city with a hugely diverse population.
What makes you so confident it's in the NSA's (or any other agency) best interests to keep you safe? If there's a big terrorist attack is their budget going to increase or decrease, are any of the bureaucrats going to get fired?
>he helped design and run many of the programs
I can't find them now, but I saw a few articles a few days ago interviewing officials in the NSA saying he really didn't have full clearance in the programs from which he took the data. The only program he created was "Heartbeat" which was supposed to analyze all the data from the programs the NSA had running, which now seems to be a ruse just to collect the information.
>snowden is probably a genius
He is definitely very intelligent, no one disputes this.
>What makes you so confident it's in the NSA's (or any other agency) best interests to keep you safe?
That's what they're set up for. However, the fact that there are people like Snowden who come out against what they are doing shows that there are certainly nefarious actions and ulterior motives at play. One of the most important things Snowden has done is make people like me not as confident in what they are doing. That's one of the reasons I'm so torn about the whole situation: is he right and what they were doing was wrong, or did he disrupt the positive influence they had in American's lives?
>That's what they're set up for
Mere words devoid of any consequence if disregarded, like google's mission statement, what matters is structure, checks and balances. The bureaucracies were never part of the constitution there were never any checks and balances created to account for them.
What matters more, what a person says or who butters their bread?