Why do you hate socialism?

It's basically a Jewish produced "fix" to a Jewish created problem.

And what do you do in socialism? Either Noone works and everything goes to shit, or the government uses force to make people to work which most likely ends up with everything being absolute shit at best and makes it so we are working even more for less personal gain

Man, you just said a bunch of stupid shit.why would the government need to force people to work? It doesn't even makes sense lmao

Look at Venezuela right now

Socialism is for lazy faggots that won't take responsibility for their own decisions and lives.

Now fuck off with your bait.

money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/economy/venezuela-decree-farm-labor/

You can't redistribute a nation into prosperity while you punish your brightest.
Socialism has never worked
anywhere.

>No it's not, socialism is when the workers own the means of production as a collective

When the whole of population is the collective, and the collective is placed in charge of ruling, it becomes necessary to create an ever increasing number of positions and powers and titles, to ensure that all people feel as if they are in charge of ruling and governing equitably. In time the chain of equal middle men grows so large, that not only is all useful work and decision making is so dissipated, as to be unable to function, but fake meaningless work begins to be developed in order to feel as if productivity begins rising. Rules and regulations, all for the good of the collective, on meaningless and pointless drivel begins to be developed in ever larger quantities, each with need of new enforcement and bureaucratic oversight, spawning an ever spiraling cycle.

Furthermore, the concept of equality among men leading to equitable rule in the collective goes against the very nature of man. In all cases, there will always be a tendency of some men with vision to tire of the status quo and rise and rule. And there will be others who seek to follow such visionaries. Factions and groups will form, their heads charismatic leaders seeking power and change, and their power bases growing ever more fanatical and divided. The collective will splinter, and the heads of the splinters will accumulate ever greater power, until the collective rules in name only, with the head as the true sovereign, and his favored followers as his loyal enforces or ideology.

>Do you like working 40+ hours a week just so you can survive?
This is literally socialism. Working with no hopes of your life getting better.

Are they forcing people to work? Man wtf really

People such as doctors, people who need to know a lot of shit and work hard, won't just stop working when everything they need to survive is provided for them. That is unless the only reason they become doctors is for the pay which is complete bullshit because everyone knows that you will fail if you don't have a passion for what you're doing

In the west, socialism means the transfer of wealth from white middle class into the hands of niggers and Muslims.

I love socialism but the only way it would work if it was coupled with nationalism. Unfortunately the (((media))) and (((education system))) have made it so national socialism will not be adopted in the west for at least another century.

Socialism never punish their bright people. Look at what happend in USSR. They won the spacial race.

youtube.com/watch?v=trybJN_EQ74

Socialism sounds great in theory, but it just doesnt work.

I understand your reading comprehension skills are a bit lacking, so I will explain again. If no one gets any benefit from working, no one will work. The government then needs to force people to work if they want anything to get done

You will hang on the day of the Rope, Marxist scum.

This is why brown/black people shouldn't be allowed to vote.

What's so bad about working 40 hours. If you have to bring work home or do overtime, then yeah maybe something else since fuck working 10-12 hours a day.

>what is the military industrial complex

GAS THE WELFARE QUEEN PARASITES

you have to be like 15 or something holy fuck one day you will grow up and realize people are shit and money is a great motivator

...

Not an argument, read a book.
Nationalism is retarded, people are more likley to find brotherhood in class than in race or ethnicity. Do you think a white steel worker finds more brotherhood in a black steel worker or a white banker?
It's bad because we don't NEED to work that much

Because it almost always leads to a dictatorship and a lot of dead civilians.

There is nothing now that prevents you from starting a company owned by its workers.
People who advocate Socialism are really just demanding the right to steal shit they don't own.

>socialism is when the workers own the means of production as a collective

this is allowed in america. whats your argument against voluntarism

That makes even less sense. Read more about what Socialism is. People are rewarded for their work... The propaganda from your country has fucked up nearly opinion, making it absolutely different from reality. If you are going to talk about something, you could at least read its Wikipedia page. Thx.

So workers should not own the fruits of their own labor?

Its horribly inefficient user. Centralized planning is horrible. And it does not incentivize workers and innovators.
I'm fine with socialism in a post-scarcity society, where robots wipe our asses and so forth. But that may never come. In the meantime, we need economic growth not some sort of system of total economic equality.

>brotherhood in class than in race or ethnicity

maybe 50+ years ago, but not today look at trump supporters as an example

did the workers take any risk?

Go vote Trumo/Hillary, your country is absolutely fucked up. Sorry about that.

False. Class warfare is a lie, which is why the vanguard has always been non-working class. We DO find more uncommon with people of different classes of our own culture than with foreign workers.

Find me one person who is a doctor that has no passion for his work and is only there for money. It does take passion, dipshit

So you find more brotherhood with white Clinton supporters than black trump supporters I assume, correct?

>Every individual... neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it... he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention.

Socialism only works with whites.

There are a number of things that would help with that but socialism isn't one.

Try:
- stopping the federal reserve inflation kikery
- rebuild the nuclear family to encourage cohabitation and re-remove many women from the already too large labor force
- decrease your population overall, especially with automation, there are just too many people for the available jobs, and the wages are shit because there is so much supply of workers and less demand

>No it's not, socialism is when the workers own the means of production as a collective

So how do start-ups work under your ideology? One person starts it, pours all their time and sweat into it, starts bringing people into work, and once it's an established business, it's taken away from him and redistributed?

Workers are not islands. If you use my oven and my electricity to bake a pie, am I not entitled so some?
This is by agreement mind. If you don't like it, go get your own fucking oven and stop trying to legislate mine into your hands.

Whatever you say shitskin. Maybe try reading a book and seeing how socialist societies have worked out in the long run (hint, it isn't good)

Yes, Socialism in Venezuela believed like all Socialist in a false reality. They believe oil prices would remain high forever, the put ALL of their cards in producing oil to prop up the Social welfare state they had created.

Now oil is down and they are idiots, the nation is on the brink of bloodbath, yet rahter than acknowledge it has failed they would rather push Socialism even harder.

Hence why they literally ration everything,with no signs of it it stopping, people eat stray animals, and 15% of the population at this point eats trash.

Literally no hope in Venezuela, only war and revolution await a already disarmed population. This is the fate of all Socialist nations when the welfare state collapses.

>Not an argument, read a book.
How is that not an argument? Do you not understand why the working class has turned its back on the idiotic "socialists" who originate from among the elites? Leftists dump niggers and Muslims near working class neighbourhoods , who then proceed to rape, pillage and leach welfare.

Politics =\= class.

what is a work week like under socialism?

It has never worked in practice NEVER

depends on how long the power is on during that week.

What about innovators? Are they rewarded? If you can't own a business, whats the incentive to push the envelope?

Class determinism is a flawed concept if groups are arbitrary. Nationalism only works if its centered around a culture backed by a religion.

The economy is shit right now because of welfare supplying money and ramping up taxes coupled with terrible immigration policy.

Open borders only works when there is no minimum wage and no welfare. Survival of the fittest.
Closed borders justify welfare somewhat and the minimum wage somewhat. But only if jobs are national and not transnational (TPP, NAFTA). Otherwise middle class takes a hit.

Society is as strong as its middle class and as wealthy as its goods and services produced.

Fact is, socialism cuts into economic production by incentivizing laziness. This is not even disputable. If people are on welfare forever, they are not producing any goods for society and so are reducing the population actively making the country great. Its spitting in the face of those who work hard and it deserves all the scorn and disdain it receives x 10.

When racial differences are significant enough, race/ culture are valid.

A white man will never feel comfortable around a ghetto nigger no matter the job difference. Especially if that white man is an honest christian and the ghetto nigger is nihilistic and on welfare. Identity and Value differences create lasting rifts, every other difference can be easily reconciled. Read some conflict theory in international relations.

>workers own the means of production
>implying people even know what they want, let alone what everyone needs/wants

USSR went pretty well, until Boris Ieltsin with the CIA decided to bomb the parliment

>I would love to hear some actual arguments against socialism.

it takes away your freedom.
You seem to believe that you're not fairly compensated, doing a lot of labour and only getting little in return. Like producing 200 cups and being able to purchase 5 of them with the wage you got from this.
That would be a problem but I doubt it's the case

>when the workers own the means of production as a collective
And the the 'collective' is the Government and distributes it as welfare.

What the fuck is stopping you from owning means of producing something. Get friends together and buy a stereotypical factory and start pumping out goods comrade

This is capitalism, this is freedom

Just do it, you are the master of your own destiny faggot

Labor camp 24/7 for 12 years average.
(with 10% monthly inmate death-ratio)

except for the rampant commodity shortages and millions sent to the gulags bro

Venezuela is an special case, like all socialist countries. They are being blocked by USA and Europe. Also, it was a fail to put all their card on the oil, yes, that was not good, no one said they were perfect. Anyway, look at Ecuador with Correa, they are going pretty well right now.

...

try taking away the benefit and see how many people still do what they did with passion. To be fair they may stay in the profession, but tedious work and overhours will be neglected excessively. Look at professors that have the immunity to skip classes

Dont fall for this just look us

i am a golden god

Since you seem big on socialism, can you answer my question? Always wondered this:

One more try gais

But if the people collectively own the means of production, then wouldn't it be in their best interest to work hard. My reasoning being if they own the factory and no one works it will inevitably fail hurting everyone, on the other hand if they all work hard wouldn't the factory thrive and produce more for everybody?

Gulags should exist nowadays. Also, you should pay attention to the context, the XX's, the cold war, the nazis, everything was against a successful revolution. But they made up to 1991. Also, look at the picture, people liked it...

Simply ignore those the Soviet killed like my ancsetors i dont think so, i absolutely hate the USSR, and they murder machine they operated.

Heard it before Venezuela is a perfect example of Socialism when it fails you people are just so insane you cannot see this.

Fuck your feelings Commie, wish Franco was around to put you in the dirt.

If it were 'worker' owned, there wouldnt be a government. You are confusing communism and socialism. Socialism by marx definition is the long hard road to communism. Socialism is just that, huge government. The idea is that government is the 'training wheels' (structural support) to your 'bike' (machine) you must have before 'you' (the workers) can ride it by yourself with out the training wheels. Communism is imposible, it is a utopia. Socialism is the limit as socialism goes to communism in math terminology. You must have complete government control before it is handed off to communism, which as I said before is a utopia. It cannot maintain itself, it cannot exist.

However, communism could exist in small subsets such as a family unit. Communism requires complete unconditional love of all humanity and the nation. The only way in which a nation can love each and every single person is if they all are a family, so to speak. That means there can only be one race. This is why you had Che and other leaders 'cleansing' their nations of other races and people they deemed deplorable or unsavable.

What you are talking about is something more to the effect of Stallinism or Maoism or Ba'athism. The face of 'socialism' with a dictator that you hope doesnt kill millions.

Good luck

Checks out

> No it's not, socialism is when the workers own the means of production as a collective

Yes it is. Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production. The members of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) were SOCIALIST republics.

When worker groups own the means of production it is called SYNDICALISM.

Actually it means something.
For example - it is hard to start farming again when communists steal your seeds and breeding stock.

Im a farmer so need to explain why i hate Socialism, that and my ancestors where Prussian killed and purged by the progressive Soviets.

...

You all sound so pathetic. No one of u give real arguments, just try to trigger everyone (this is Cred Forums,its obvious). Socialism isn't perfect, but capitalism kills thousands of people everyday and you seem to prefer that. Your lack of empathy makes me throw up. Think about how painful is the capitalism for the whole world. The pillage to the third world, the manipulation of the general opinion through the media, the poverty and the lack of opportunities, the patriarchy which is a huge pillar of capitalism, all the racism, all the oppression to the nacionalisms... Everything is wrong with capitalism, it's a self destruction and we look at it with a smile forged in the false welfare state.

>Nationalism is retarded

Marxists truly are useful idiots.

>Look at what happend in USSR.

Good one, comrade

I asked a neutral question in this thread, then asked you specifically to answer it. Maybe you missed it. But don't just jump on shitposts and images and then complain that there are no real arguments in this thread.

you go to work but not many workers are there
infrastructure doesn't really work
you chatter a bit and try again later
when the machine runs you try to get enough for the supervisor to nod it off, it's not like he has much stake in it.

They do. They can not allow dissent and dissent is essential for something new to pop up, society to evolve.

Socialism leads to stagnation and stagnation leads to fail.

I am old enough to have seen it.

Not working was punishable in Soviet union

Id fight for a capitalist system based on sound backed currency that increases in value not this mockery that is Jewish controlled currency. Besides media in the US is totally left wing.

This will only be settled by another world war sadly.

End thread. This guy won.

>Do you like knowing that you're just a small cog in a socialist machine that can be gulaged at anytime for listening to the wrong music?

>the patriarchy which is a huge pillar of capitalism, all the racism
>capitalism is responsible for racism
>capitalism is patriarchy

Marxism is truly a religion. Capitalism to a Marxist is not simply an economic system, it is the devil himself.

/thread

I haven't read your post actually. I wrote that for those who aren't saying anything important, just media shit, sorry m8. At least you are not an amerifag

For the society to work, smart people find brotherhood in every class and do not let divide the classes apart.

do you really think people wont still work 40 hours a week, that strong countries still wont invade weak ones? socialism wont fix anything

I actually have a job

So again explain massive detail how Socialism fails could it be, that it turned to regional Socialism and turned away from international Socialism, shouldn't that be a hint to you human nature won out, and greed won out, Socialism rejects this, it will always be this way because Socialism goes against human nature, dont be surprised when millions of people fucked over by Socialism reject it TOTALLY, like i said it killed my Prussian ancestors, thats why i live in the US today is because of the left.

Because centrally planned economies ineluctablely produce shortages, famine, and failure because a centralized governmental authority can never calculate prices -- and therefore allocate resources efficiently -- as precisely as free market. This paradgmitical problem is known in economics as The Calculation Problem and has never been refuted by a advocate of socialism; moreover, shortages -- which are predicated by us (Austrian economists and acolytes thereof) -- have always been manifested under socialism.

I'm not against this in principle. But who would make decisions for the firm, especially the hard ones, such as hiring and firing and reading industry trends, and managing competition? The enterprise would end up electing a leadership, because voting for every damn thing is extremely time consuming, and there's no good reason to believe in the wisdom of crowds in this scenario. The leadership would have a job with a lot more responsibility and a much, much higher cost of failure. If somebody slacks off on the assembly line, hey no big deal, but if the leadership misreads industry trends, then that could sink the entire firm quickly. And if they're even just underperforming compared to their competition the investors are going to dump their stock and buy up their competition's. But leadership in this scenario would not get compensated more than the average worker, for their much more important job. Even if they prove themselves apt leaders, that is, if they're really good at reading the landscape and managing the enterprise and satisfying investors - by investing in the right things at the right times and making the pivots when they need to - they'd move to firms where leadership is highly compensated. After all, there is still competition, and that competition wants to survive. They'll be head-hunting every day for talent to lead their firms. And if the leadership aren't going to get paid more for their valuable work, why, they're just going to leave and ohmygodi'vedoneitagain.

came here to say this

european socialism was working pretty decently. but once a country is filled with shitskin parasites who aren't exactly motivated to "do their share", it goes to shit.

Was answer to

Cant have Socialism this day and age without Marxism, only national Socialism is the way out of this. Or a total purge of Socialism, which is what i am for.

WTF. I can not click.

Was answer to

this can't be stressed enough:
communism makes sure you're a cog (or below a cog) BY DEFINITION since the planning is done by the "intelligentsia".

mods should IP and hardware ban people who leave 1 troll post and fuck off.

Have you ever gone through an engineering program? I can guarantee that most people would not go through the process if they didn't have to work.

As far as I know, which is not so much about what you are asking, the government, which is completely different from the kind of government we all know, would provide any kind of "business" people needs. Government is all the people in Socialism, and actually, communism tens to destroy the government, but just theorically.

Now, this is me talking, I'm an anticapitalist, and I kind of like Socialism obviously, but there is a lot of things that I have doubt on. Mostly because my lack of information, and also and very vary important, it's because it's so hard to think about a kind of organitzacion that has never existed, I mean, Socialism wouldnt work in our world right now, mostly because it need A LOT of education. People are so alienated. People in Socialism would have a socialist way to think. You can't think about Socialism with a capitalist brain. It's so hard man.

national socialism is the application of the struggle of the working classes towards the goal of a better society believing that, our people and our race must be the first in this goal.

>Tragedy of the commons. There will be freeloaders in socialism.

there is generally a reason for this which can be corrected somehow.

sweden and the netherlands before the cancer of politcally correct liberalism

>You can't redistribute a nation into prosperity while you punish your brightest.

you cannot get a country to work only focusing on the rich

>Yes, Socialism in Venezuela believed like all Socialist in a false reality. They believe oil prices would remain high forever, the put ALL of their cards in producing oil to prop up the Social welfare state they had created.

"ROTHSCHILD JUST WON’T GIVE UP ON VENEZUELA"

smoloko.com/?p=5320

if the central bank is controlled

It will never work

>human nature
Capitalism is so fucking inside all of us that we even think that humans itself are like this, but no, you are wrong. I'm just too tired to explain something so basic.

Not working is punished with poverty in all countries...

>People such as doctors, people who need to know a lot of shit and work hard

And what would happen if you didn't need to work hard anymore.

hmmm really makes me think..

Try having a job you stupid motherfucker, oh thats right you cant do that on Spain

Let's refute your argument, and even let you falsely assume that Socialism is defined as

"when the workers own the means of production as a collective"

That's communism or anarchy, depending on whether the representation is indirect or direct, respectively, but I digress; just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't mean you're not wrong.

Every ACTUAL socialist nation that's remotely successful (like mostly Canada, Denmark, and the E.U to much extent) has capitalism fueling its functions. They either trade out with other nations to fuel their consumption or trade throughout and have heavy social programs (such as social security in the U.S., not that a 15 year old like you would understand that but hey).

In the event that you go anarchy, in which your "socialism" is simply only that the people directly own the means of production, you have no government law enforcement, or incentive to improve. If you want historical fact of this trend, simply see Catalonia.

Similarly, in Communism (where the indirect ownership of production is through the government), you find that the government places the needs of the many over the few, and does not value human life very high. Again, an example can found in the Tienanmen Square and Holodomor incidences.

One almost always leads to the other, cyclically until the chain is broken with capitalism. You basically have to steal everyone else's development and hold your own people hostage or be subservient to their interest to enact accomplishments on a global scale. That's how the Russians got sputnik in orbit - they STOLE. Think, if the Russians were so good that they didn't have to steal, how did we get to the moon first?

Overall, that picture you have in the OP, you dopie fucking faggot, perfectly describes "socialism," which, when you make me fire a synapse about it, has only the ambiguity as to where it leads.

So in short, underage B&, fuck off, and read a textbook.

Still 0 arguments. You brainwashed capitalists.

Is there a historical case for socialism where it's raised the the quality of life and standard of living like capitalism? The statistics show the average wealth of the world increasing under capitalism. That in turns raises more out of poverty compared to previous generations. Do you have any arguments that haven't been refuted with facts for over half a century?

Should workers own the fruits of a loan taken by another person?

>your country is absolutelu fucked up
>Spain

Go take your nap Jose Maria

The whole work week or amenity argument is a waste of time. Example benefits or healthcare are amenities that you get when you can afford to trade that cash/income for these perks. Ask someone who works in China or even Central America if they would rather have air conditioning or the money and they'll always take the money.

You are 15 years old and dont know any doctor, instead of reading your books go and live in the real world or change your book for better ones

We don't shot black people, and we don't have that poverty average, and we don't have that shitty way to think... I prefer Spain much more that USA.

Wrong again faggot.

Look at USSR statistics... They had like 2% unemployment. They lived way better than USA. I'm not going to bring you all the data, look for it.

...

You do know besides Italy your the next to capitulate to the banksters, look at Greece, Lefties like you ended up licking the Jewish banker boots, It was Socialists in charge of Greece when that happened, they sold out to preserve their precious social welfare state even if its complete shit.

Oh wait NVM thats different like Venezuela isnt that right cuck.

Absolute degenerate liar, my family lived there for years it was hell on earth try again faggot. They where racist asf also they tried to forcibly move them for being German. Fuck you death to the Reds....

Thanks for the laugh Spain. I'll make sure to tell my associates at the place I work who used to live in the USSR and talk about how horrible it was and tell them it's way better than America.

Eesti's right of course, the same thing happened to my grandpa.
He owned a sawmill he built from nothing, commies took all his equipment. Then, after they turned him into a penniless day laborer, he had to travel to the other side of the country on his own expense so he could show the workers in the co-op how his machines worked.
Fuck commies.

The pillage of the third world is being carried away by China in ways more opressive than any colonial government

You care so much about life and praise the URRS, you cant be more stupid for fuck sake

>Look at USSR statistics... They had like 2% unemployment. They lived way better than USA. I'm not going to bring you all the data, look for it.

This is a complete fabrication and fiction. If this was even remotely true even an ounce we would see this today. The facts are by the 50's and 60's when journalists and others were allowed into the country it became common knowledge how destitute and horribly run it was. They couldn't even figure out how to make AK 47's efficiently until over a decade later that's how bad everything including industry there was at the time.

Wait wait wait, are you calling Tsipras a socialist? Lmaoooooooo

Also, he got a lot of pressure from Europe and the ECB... You give him all the fault for what happend when everyone was making it harder and harder. But yeah, you always forget the context, I understand you, you are American, it's hard for you to have a real logic opinion on something ;-)

So your answer is that we won't need men with good ideas who start businesses because we will have a government which magically provides us with good ideas and businesses.

All the while we compete with countries where people are actually allowed to have ideas and start businesses.

Of course before we start any kind of business, we have to brainwash people first, or "reeducate".
Of course some people won't want to have a government that wants to change the way they think, so these people we will have to put into gulags.

Got it. I'm a socialist now.

0 real argument, Im sell waiting. I've been here for more than an hour, I think you can do better, come on!

It's always fun seeing these bait threads as Socialism and Communism itself has lost the empirical and theoretical arguments for over half a century. People still fall into this old failed idea likely due to some Marxist biased education. It's really a shame people aren't capable of critical thinking and need to be taught this skill.

First, that about China is a plain lie
Second, I don't praise USSR, I'm just saying thing about it. It wasn't perfect and I know it. Keep trying bros.

I know you like to cherry pick, but

yeah Spineless cuck, he capitulated, your ideology failed so hard, it licked the boots of banksters at a time in which it could have broken away and been glorious.

Shit like that is why i applaud Brexit, fuck you reds.

>Doesn't understand economics

If you want to know what it's like to work 40 hours while starving to death, you're going to have to move to a socialist country.

It's weird that u say that that info is false, u say that USSR invented it. But u never consider that USA propaganda made u think that. It's so funny to see how brainwashed you are, congratulations.

Because socialism is just another form of Capitalism, where the 1% become the people in charge of everything, the middle class dies, and the rest make "minimum living wages", just enough to keep alive basically.

That's how it always ends up.

Dude, you're the most trash-ass pre-spic faux-logic'd cunt I've seen all day.

I mean the hillshills do it better.

but i don't

i only hate authoritarian socialism

>
>So your answer is that we won't need men with good ideas who start businesses because we will have a government which magically provides us with good ideas and businesses.

Not magically provide. Those "good men with good ideas" are part of the government, because everyone is. That's what I meant when I told you that a socialist government is completely different from what we have now.

I didn't say the USSR invented I'm saying that Socialism and Communism were proven wrong on two fronts. Theoretically and Empirically. There were communist and even socialist parties in the USA that championed those same ideas and ideals hence why the revelation to the masses of it's failure is a bookend to this ideology.

Socialism is based

Like any «socialist» you only care about the «people» when you cant take political advantage of their needs, but when a venezuelan, an ucranian, a north korean, a east german told about the hungry they live in or the violence they are victims the they are not the «people» anymore, better grab your arguments and shove it inside your ass

>They lived way better than USA.
I remember there was this occasion where communist were trying out propaganda on focus groups. They showed them the horrors of capitalism, many of which you have stated in this thread. Do you know what all the focus groups commented on in that entire session for propaganda?
"Every American has a car?"

What do you consider good conditions? The fact that bread was too expensive to buy in the ussr should tell you something. Meanwhile, 'unemployment' in the ussr meant every body had a job, but not food to eat.

...

Explain to me both what you believe socialism to be and exactly what the benefits of socialism over capitalism are.

So sad seeing people defending their own captors. Keep trying bro.

Not an argument.

Is a total lie about china? Oh my fucking god, you are so brainwashed that you dont defend the opressed anymore, yeah motherfuckers is a lie, what else is a lie there isnt any slave workers on china?

...

United States. Fun fact no capitalist country lasted more than 10 years.

You are making a mistake.

You are assuming that Capitalism is the reason for the problems in the world, but it's not.

It's Governments who have merged with large businesses, dictated wage levels, bailed out their friends and gave themselves massive tax exemptions.

How do they solve this? By taxing people more, giving welfare, giving them healthcare, feeding them, providing a "minimum living wage"

That isn't Capitalism. It's socialism.

U are the naivest guy I've ever known if u don't think that the propaganda against commies has destroyed the real concept of communism, you are all hating communism just because they told you to, and you do it loyaly like a good dog. Keep being a good dog, and be careful when your owner beats you, because he will.

>1 post by this ID

Dude there is a whole thread that you havent read. Nice shit post

Man, u are just saying bullshit with 0 arguments pls, if you are gonna say that, pls be quite.

Why don't you post that as a new thread since it's typical leaf bait.

Millions and millions more must die to create a utopia huh? Again dont be surprised when literally millions of people not brainwashed but who have lost loved ones from the left and tyrannical government will NEVER i repeat NEVER agree with you.

Literally NEVER, try and push Socialism more, see how long it takes before WW3 unfolds, It will be nationalists vs international Socialists vs radical Sunni Islam.

I don't expect you to understand, but damnit cant you see total war will engulf the earth before a atheist Socialist "utopia" is ever created.

Know how i know this? Because people like me will be on the front line against totalitarian freaks like you.

See Rome.

Who gives a fuck about the means of production. I mean who literally gives a fuck.

The Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:

Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian
Ulyanov (Lenin) JEW
Bronstein (Trotsky) JEW
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) JEW
Lourie (Larine) JEW
Ouritski JEW
Volodarski JEW
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) JEW
Smidovitch JEW
Sverdlof (Yankel) JEW
Nakhamkes (Steklof) JEW

The Council of the People’s Commissars:

Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Ulyanov (Lenin) JEW
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) JEW
Food Schlichter JEW
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) JEW
State Control Lander JEW
State Lands Kauffman JEW
Works V. Schmidt JEW
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) JEWess
Religions Spitzberg JEW
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) JEW
Hygiene Anvelt JEW
Finance Isidore Goukovski JEW
Press Volodarski JEW
Elections Ouritski JEW
Justice I. Steinberg JEW
Refugees Fenigstein JEW
Refugees (assist.) Savitch JEW
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski JEW

...

you're a bad troll.

You're a fucking retard.

Must make you feel warm to know the left will sell you out like that :) Free helicopter rides anyone?

Members of the German Spartakusbund:

Karl Liebknecht German
Clara Zetkin JEW
Rosa Luxemburg JEW
Leo Jogiches JEW
Paul Levi JEW
Ernst Toller JEW
Eugene Levine JEW
Kurt Eisner JEW
Gustav Landauer JEW
Erich Muehsam JEW

Rome was basically the USSR under a different name.

gov funded healthcare gov funded military gov funded everything. In fact there were no corporations

There is violence everywhere. Now look at Mexico, look at Colombia, look at USA... All of they are capitalist countries with a huge amount of violence, and you are so stupid to think that the violence in a socialist country is socialist fault, but the violence in a capitalist country is chamander's fault or something, never capitalism s fault. Do you really think before writing? Its so easy to break anything you say...

Based Burgerbro tells the truth.

Socialism is for losers.

>what do you consider good conditions?
You consider good conditions to have a car? Man... You answered yourself....

>projecting

>Putin: 80-85% of the Bolsheviks were jews
youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM

>Churchill: communism is jewish
youtube.com/watch?v=BNcERXGcpEY

we like national socialism
14
88

Based upon the way you type and your idealization of communism I can assume you are young, probably around 12 years old. I'm not trying to be condescending when I say this, but I'd genuinely like to teach you a lesson about argumentation. You may have seen some people on Cred Forums and even in this thread say the oft-repeated post, "Not an argument." The thing about responding to someone's post with "Non an argument" is that that person's post must have actually NOT BEEN AN ARGUMENT. Furthermore, you will never prove yourself as competent or prove your ideology to others by 1. responding only to weak / non-argumentative posts and 2. responding only with ad-hominem / non argument insults, such as:

>So sad seeing people defending their own captors
>U are the naivest guy I've ever known
>Wait wait wait, are you calling Tsipras a socialist? Lmaoooooooo

Notice how none of these sentences actually put forth any sort of point. When you really look at them, you're not saying anything at all.

I would like to have a real argument with you on this, I really would. I think the quicker you move on from your communist phase the quicker you move away from being a typical cringey teenager. You have to work with me though.

>Mexico Capitalist's
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha

They literally have Karl Marx spray-painted on the sides of schools, yet you think they are capitalists, fucking idiot.

Columbia is 1000x better off then Ecuador or Venezuela they only reason they hurt is because lefties fund FARC.

I cant take you serious anymore.....

Explain to me all your life...
Man, it's almost 4AM here, I'm not gonna give u a lesson now, lo of for it yourself.

Violence:
Mexico - because of Mexicans
Columbia - because of Columbians
US - because of blacks, Mexicans, and Columbians

The answer is simple.

Hell Chile is better off than Ecuador or Venezuela, probably because the helicopter rides kek

They dont even have oil like Venezuela.

Oh my God, it seems I have to explain everything...
You said that China does more pillage than any other country. I said that's a lie because it doesn't do more than any other... Anyway, what if he does the most? China is a capitalist country right now.

Corporations are just publicly traded companies. There was no stock market, but people absolutely invested in a business venture.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collegium_(ancient_Rome)

But they had currency, landowners, agriculture, trade.

At no time was everything managed by the State.

Rome isn't anything close to fucking communist. It's an Empire, ever expanding, with a financial trade backbone feeding the army.

...

...

good conditions is to live in a small commie apartment together with 4 other people, and lining up for bread.

>Do you like working 40+ hours a week just so you can survive?

How would socialism change this? Do you have an example is a socialist country where people don't have to work around 40 hours and have a similar standard of living as in the west?

>Do you like knowing that your just a small cog in a corporate machine that can be replaced at anytime?

How would socialism change this? The implication seems to be that under this system in some unimportant sap but under socialism I wouldn't be. Can you explain how socialism would make me less unimportant?

>hurr its not my job to actually say what my arguments are :^)

Good work Dad.

>Hitler v (((banks)))
youtube.com/watch?v=5Vekf_2952U

>’Socialist’ I define from the word ‘social’ meaning in the main ‘social equity’. A Socialist is one who serves the common good without giving up his individuality or personality or the product of his personal efficiency.

>Our adopted term ‘Socialist has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true socialism is not. Marxism places no value on the individual, or individual effort, of efficiency; true Socialism values the individual and encourages him in individual efficiency, at the same time holding that his interests as an individual must be in consonance with those of the community. All great inventions, discoveries, achievements were first the product of an individual brain. It is charged against me that I am against property, that I am an atheist. Both charges are false.

Adolf Hitler (1938)

Prove it.

>Do you like 40+ hours a week just so the Government keeps you alive?

i always see anti-russian, anti-communist propaganda from the US, and of course this thread is filled of butthurt americans

Man, YOU all are telling me that the Socialism is the reason for anything bad that happens inside the socialist country, and now you tell me this? COME ON!

BTW, capitalism is much more than an economical organization, capitalism is everything, and it's been forging since French Revolution, they could troleo everything, so it's logic to think that capitalism is part of every bad thing that happens. Probably it has made something good, yeah, but the proportion is not worth at all.

No Hong kong is capitalist because Socialism would fail without a capitalist system feeding it lol

Kek its like you dont understand the economic fail of Socialists across the board in the 70's, Capitalism is what brought countries like Sweden and Norway out of it kek my sides.

> every pain management doctor writing 500 g of oxycodone a month

Honest question
Why do people refer to socialists as commies?
I thought they were 2 different things

Why is it then that doctors in Cuba will close their practices to drive taxis, where they make more money then they could doctoring via tourists tips

didn't they have high taxes? thats socialist

hitler was in debt to jewish banks

Nod an argumend

Ok so you prefer to have bread too expensive to buy and being forced to work? You are genuinely retarded. Fuck it maybe your mind is just different than ours. You just want an awful life so who am I to argue.

But if your shit ever effects my home country, I will blame you and people like you personally.

Socialism means you may very well be forced to work 70 hours a week at gunpoint. Not to make money, but to sustain the bloated system.

French Revolution led by Robespierre literally installed a reign of red terror killing anyone opposed to the regime kek your too easy, Robespierre was a pseudo Socialist before the time of Marx kek.

Socialism leads to communism. It was pretty much one of Marx's main points. Also I'm pretty sure socialism is really just kind of like a scaled down version of communism.

socialism is basically communism lite

communists proclaimed that socialism is the path, and communism is the goal.

>(((Marx)))
His father was literally a Rabbi, he was just using the anti-semitic sentiment to expand his movement.

He can't. He's an unemployable leafaggot who thinks everyone else in society should be made to suffer because he lacks any marketable skills.

now the baltic monkey is going to talk about ""occupation""

>socialism is when the workers own the means of production as a collective
I thought that was communism?

Then what is the difference between the 2?

Welfare has distroyed black families, causing gang mentality, and a hatred of whom they blame for their own transgressions, white people. You are correct.

>hitler was in debt to jewish banks
So? Jews control international finance. The whole point of national socialism is to free the nation from debt slavery. And no one has come closer since jews set up the first international banks than Hitler.

Spain is in great shape.

Do you all happen to have many socialist there?

Most people under the poverty line don't work 40 hours or more a week

Marx / the communists were convinced that imposing communism all of the sudden will not work because "society has to be transformed"

Socialism is a means to a end that end is communism, it is reliant on a Fabian method of spoon feeding more government controls ect.

There is no difference Communism is essentially Socialism progressed to the point of Totalitarianism which is the end goal of both.

They had 2% Unemployment because if you didn't work you were sent to a Gulag. In the Gulag, you worked or they fucking killed you. What a great standard of living.

That's really all socialism is

>someone else will do the hard stuff. Just let me have my little bit of stuff for free. I won't take up much.

OK, you are being serious, so I'm gonna answer you seriously, so you can understand me better without irony.

It's 4AM here, I can't sleep and I use this to entertain myself. You are right in everything u said but my age, I'm 21. Those ad hominem are just a try to trigger, which are failing actually. I know exactly what I am doing, and I answer just short posts, because English is not my best language, and it's hard to me to express myself, I'm making a little effort here. Don't miss understand me please, I'm just getting fun while I talk about something which is pretty interesting.
Also, I sound so pro-communism here but just because everyone is against it, so I say the good things. I have my own doubts about it, but I'm not defending what everyone is defending here. I'm absolutely anticapitalist, and people are saying all the bad things in communist (some of the completely false) while they are just ignoring Hoy harmfull is the capitalist.

This is something else that's completely lied about constantly.

Turns out people in poverty don't really work.

Socialism is the hard road to communism. Socialism had almost complete government 'automation' while communism is supposed to continue the structure left by socialism with absolutely 0% government. I wrote a more detailed post about it earlier in this thread.

As far as I know communism is fucking everything. You work on a farm, you give your shit to the government. You work in a mine, you give your shit to the government. You own a canned goods factory, you give your shit to the government, and then it gets distributed. Socialism refers to social plans like """""""free""""""" healthcare and the like, where everyone in the US pays a fuck ton of taxes and then that money is used to pay for everyone's health bills.

A huge reason why people don't like socialism / communism and why it would never work is because people don't get to keep the fruits of their labor, and people are forced to pay for other people's shit.

On the chance you'll actually pay attention:

Socialism requires capitalism to work. You need to have capitalists to redistribute from. Once you have no more capitalists, or have redistributed everything you can from the capitalists, the experiment in socialism ends.

>but we'll just print more money

>Even if they own the means of production, 90% of the workers are too stupid to capitalize on it

You have to be very retarded to fail in the USA.

You literally said life was better in the USSR than the USA a sec ago.

I think that pretty well shows everyone all they need to know about you.

>My god is so easy break anything you say

Part of the violence inflicted in Colombia is done by the FARC, the comunist guerrila you fucking retard, the ones that kill inocent people for stupid reason

French Revolution was a bourgeoisie revolution. At that time they looked so lefty, but they were not.

Socialism is gangster if it's National Socialism

Okay, I can definitely concede the points about age and typing, it makes sense considering the language / time barrier. As for the ad hominems, this is a classic >I was just pretending to be retarded, but it doesn't actually matter that much to me.

What I really want to know is why are you anti-capitalist? I feel like a lot of people look at the poverty and the worst of society and it's easy to say "this is what capitalism does", but that's not taking in the whole picture. What makes communism better than capitalism?

...

Not totalitarian enough huh?

Goddamn.

Amazing.

>spaniards
>white

Not with these IQ points

What do you mean by "Anything bad"? Lots of bad things happen that have nothing to do with politics.

When it comes to current events, yes, socialism is being pushed as a solution to poor people while the rich get even richer. Hillary Clinton isn't going to tax her friends, they like being rich and powerful.

If it was Capitalism, the economy would have collapsed in 2008 and everyone would have lost their money. "Oh well, shouldn't have taken a risk like that!" and we move on.

>didn't they have high taxes? thats socialist

The Roman's didn't pay much tax, everyone else did. Someone has to pay for the army.

I'm not sure if Government instantly equals socialism. I don't think many people her would argue we need no Government, and no management. But don't need socialism as a whole.

>BTW, capitalism is much more than an economical organization, capitalism is everything, and it's been forging since French Revolution, they could troleo everything, so it's logic to think that capitalism is part of every bad thing that happens. Probably it has made something good, yeah, but the proportion is not worth at all.

Well, AFTER the French Revolution and Napoleon kicked out all the shitty kings and queens ruling everything, and knocked the Church back out of power, that's when Capitalism became a lot more prominent, the industrial revolution begins and life expectancy and birth rates go up all across the planet.

You could blame both World Wars on Capitalism and the speed of invention in a free market, but the majority of deaths in both wars were a result of the Russian Revolution or people in Russia being poorly treated by a Communist Government.

I wonder what have you read o listened to think that they lived worse in USSR. I mean, polls you've read something from
Stéphane Courtois, Nicolas Werth, Andrzej Paczkowski or Joachim Gauck. It's OK, they were paid by USA to write all that bullshit.

If socialism was instated tomorrow I would instantly stop working where I am and start working on my own products and playing video games. of course video game quality would decline over time because video game developers would be doing the same thing I'm doing so I don't know what leisure activity I would engage in then but I'm fairly certain I would be less productive than I am now. As would everyone else with a human brain like I have.

Read well what i posted about China, i said the pillage is done in more awful and violent ways

Im not going by polls im going by how life was for my grandma, and the rationing and the forced relocation, and the fact that they felt they were worthless and life was pointless.

Hey man the military industrial complex puts food on my table. It puts savings in my retirement. It's how I paid my student loans off at 25 and its currently funding the mortgage on my home.

The military industrial complex supports a lot of hard working people. Doesn't matter if it's a twisted greedy industry, devoid of morality that canabilises weaker economies and sells death and misery. It's a cornerstone of this giant economy.

And even then we have social programs that will pick you up when you are down. The only problem right now is that we help people who arent down.

I want welfare reform

>Do you like working 40+ hours a week just so you can survive?
>Do you like knowing that your just a small cog in a corporate machine that can be replaced at anytime?

No. That why I'm not a socialist. I want to be able to live in a country where I'm free to choose my own path in life, and where competition and economic prosperity creates untold opportunities for me, as long as I'm smart enough and willing to put in the work.

>socialism is when the workers own the means of production as a collective
What's stopping you from doing this in a capitalist society? Make your own co-op if you want, you whiny faggot. Oh, but I guess you can't, because as a worker, you're an incompetent moron with no discernible skills, and if you tried, you'd just get into constant conflicts with your equally incompetent coworkers. And if one of them actually had the managerial skills necessary, they'd be wasted, because everyone has an equal say, including the illiterate half-wit at the conveyor belt.
A hierarchy simply works much better for managing a business.

It's so easy to be anticapitalist, actually very easy, but it's so hard to be a marxist. You just have to look deep on reality, on everything that happend in the world from 200 years until now. Be scheptical, just try to put things together. Everything that happens is beneficial for capitalism. Also, the capitalism has made a system that holds itself, every good idea turns into comercial shit to make more money. I'm not saying that EVERYTHING is capitalism fault, but man, just look at the world, it's all fucked up and if u look close, a lot of thing has a "capitalist stamp" on them.

It's too late to explain why Marxism is better man. Also I wouldn't be able to explain it correctly, even less in English, and lesser writing, it's easier talking face to face. But basically. The first argument, one of thousands, is that capitalism is a whole mess, so we have to change something, and there aren't much more ideologies that has been deeply studied.

no incentive.

So you dont address the Jews... at all or fiat currency, how can you base a ideology off of a already fake and manipulated system, its like you want to work with it or something.

Well, good night Cred Forums. Hope u learned something or at least you enjoyed this. If this makes you happy, I've lost a little bit of hope reading all the stupid and pointless arguments you said, but I'll keep going, I knew that people like you existed, so u have to face it. xoxo

Socialists taking advantage of Government regulation to control large swaths of cash isn't capitalism.

The problem is that the socialists who control everything have tricked you into thinking capitalism and free markets are the problem, when it's actually the socialist policies that you vote for that are increasing lowering your standard of living.

You are really blue pilled on this.

Makes sense. Spain is in such good shape.

Are there many socialist there?

He wasnt arguing for anything at all. Youve got some kind of complex dude..

You are 21 and woke after 4am, yeah keep praising socialism, hopefuly your opinion will change when you start looking for a job in Spain and had to give half of your income to pay for the salaries of corrupt and inepts goverment workers that are in that position for being related to a nasty politician

How could we learn from something we've all heard a thousand times before?

This guy gets it

Literally not an argument

Capitalism is fine, and has increased the standard of living enormous. The problem with the modern world isn't capitalism, it's moral relativity as a result of post-modernism. When you abandon all traditions and morals, capitalism becomes free to pursue anything it wants, and you get the shithole of a world we live in today. Capitalism restricted by morals and traditions works just fine.

youtube.com/watch?v=bvKqGQf0L0c

what a romantic (and unrealistic) point of view. But the truth is that doctors are humans too. Their job is really hard and stressing. In first years of Medicine College the students thinks like you and believe that "oh, the medicine is a vocation of service" shit. Then they crash with the reallity. Nobody will work for nothing, not all the time (i study medicine btw).

Too bad Franco missed your parents.

I'm kinda undecided on this subject, the freeloaders make me furious but on the other hand it's nice to have free healthcare and education, wouldn't have it any other way. If the welfare was just for swedes and not for immigrants, it would be perfect.

Capitalism based on fiat currency isnt capitalism its controlled.

Well its obvious you didnt learn anything. I used to be like you, I liked communism and socialism. So I understand it the exact same amount as you.

The only difference is that I grew up

>Capitalism is fine, and has increased the standard of living enormous
Tell that to the sweatshop worker who made your shirt.

National Socialism is what you speak of, International Socialism "marxism" is what got us to where we are today, Sweden you will eventually buckle under the weight especially if Marxists in your government have their way.

>socialism cannot function globally for one simple reason...greed...the post WW2 generation have created a system that depends on exploitation to keep the boomers rich until they die...war taught them nothing except that war is just another way to exploit more people and get richer.

For some reason, these retards think if we abolish capitalism, they can just sit around making bad music and playing videogames all day.

They obviously have no fucking clue how to keep the power grid operational, or how to pave a road, or farm.. or do anything useful for 40+ hours a week.

Only someone who has never worked with any doctors could have typed this.

The sweatshop worker who lives in a communist country?

You mean those living under Socialism? Besides like i said, fiat currency based on nothing is what got us here ,its not capitalism, Jews control it.

This.

Most workers just aren't intelectually qualified to run a complex operation.

>National
>International
What's wrong with one nation, that happens to really big and planet-shaped?

Yeah I guess, too bad about the whole 6 million thing huh

That's your job being shipped to a socialist country. The best way to compete is to drop your wages, they'll tell you.

Or just import them into your country, they'll tell you.

The sweatshop worker in other countries like china? A touch of Socialism is necessary in capitalism to protect workers from monopolies and horrible working conditions like you speak of, but that doesnt stop other countries from just doing whatever the fuck they want. Atleast americans dont work in shit conditions. We cant do shit about the socialist china

Be honest with me Cred Forums
Are pro-socialism retards just analpained idiots balls deep in debt looking for a way out and poorfags that honestly believe they deserve money from rich mcrichsan ignoring all the shit he or his parents did to hire people to work for him?

This post perfectly sums up the classic saying: If you want to convince someone that socialism is bad, just let them listen to a socialist speaking.

China is just a capitalist state with one ruling party, the workers don't own shit.

As opposed to what? How would you represent the value of work, if it doesn't create a physical product? Gold doesn't just spawn out of thin air as a result of hard work.

Nothing if its nation states brought together naturally of the course of time, but what we currently have is a artificial forced mechanism doing it Socialism, it WILL result in war.

The fuck? A white ID? I don't remember the last time I've seen one

Yes.

They are unemployable trolls desperately seeking any ideology that will make everyone else's lives as meaningless and painful as theirs.

>Do you like knowing that your just a small cog in a corporate machine that can be replaced at anytime?

As opposed to being a small cog in a corrupt state-run industry that will probably either be purged or end up standing in line for borscht?

I'll take my chances with capitalism, thanks!

>Do you like knowing that your just a small cog in a corporate machine that can be replaced at anytime?
Why do socialists need to feel special? When I used to work (ironically, I no longer do because we live in a socialist society and there are no incentives to work), I never needed the affirmation of my boss and co-workers. I care about my friends and family, not some random people I work with.

That was needed in the 1800's at the dawn of mechanization when they sent children into machines, nowadays even in China labor isnt that dangerous, any more unions or Socialism at this point is just corrupt.

And if it is that bad in China have you ever wondered why Socialism hasn't done anything to really help?

I was just thinking about that, that weird. Are you the special brazilian here to save us from socialism?

>we live in a socialist society
>poster from usa
Okay, capitalists can be stupid too.

I absolutely agree, thats why I said a touch. I couldnt think of a synonym that meant something smaller than touch.

Anything but a currency that is privately owned and printed by Jews, really we are in a rat race artificially created and maintained by jews using currency and interest rates, hence why your currency devalues in your own fucking pocket, that is not capitalism, that is a scam.

It's not about "affirmation", more the fundamental pointlessness of slaving away for $7.50 an hour while some Zuckerberg-tier billionaire sits on his arse getting even richer.

Fuck off, post-soviet bloc countries hate those little commie faggots living in USA like you, bouncing in Che Guevara t-shirts with a red star on your backpack.

Go visit ex-soviet bloc, see what a clusterfuck of paperwork and degenaracy it left for the people.

The only good thing that the commies did to our nations is that we are still mono-race. And we know that EU is just a USSR v2.0

They are forcing people to not work, last time I checked.
Maduro's a total idiot.

>Socialism sounds great in theory
This is just one of those things people say. No, it doesn't even sound good in theory.

>USA is turning into the Soviet Union
wat

It sucks bruh. I work 55 hours a week with my commute and make 100k a year. After paying taxes , my x wife and the mortgage loan that's 98 percent interest and 2 percent to what I actually borrowed, I'm just breaking even every month.

I drive a 10 year old beat up car, dont have a girlfriend and hate most of the people i have to work for at my job which I have to absolutely bust my ass at.

> Fantasize about walking off into the woods and living in a wikiup by a river and just saying fuck it.

You don't know what you are talking about, pic fucking related

Why do I expect to read something intelligent in a socialism thread, shit why do I even click this

...

I like socialism with a healthy side of Nationalism
Fuck niggers, shitskins, and kikes, and fuck the upper middle class who enable their shit

Yep what is the point of saving say 100k your whole life, to see it degrade and only be worth 10k by the time your old? this is a problem of the actual currency not capitalism which this is alien to it, and Socialism is simply the fix the Jews want you to settle for, Socialism cannot survive without modern banking and monkey business economics.

The sooner people realize Socialism is being pressed to control a house of cards the elite created the sooner we can purge it.

The USA has every element of a socialist country now. It's socialism. Now people want communism (and they're just calling it socialism and pretending we live in a "democracy") because they're such colossal god damn failures that all the government programs and gibmes aren't enough.

You dont have to work 40+ hours a week with capitalism, thats the thing, its all about your own personal motivations to do well.
You could open your own company if you have the wits and make a ton of money.

Who is going to volunteer to work as a garbage man under communist rule? why should I if I get paid the same amount to work at walmart?

The entire human existence as a man especially is only satisfying when you work hard and do things to create your own life.

consider this. In an RPG would you bother doing all the side quests if they had no additional value to the plot and no additional reward?

I cant think of a more pathetic existence than in a socialist world I feel this is for women and nu-males who desperately want protection because they realize they're failures in life.

>I'm just breaking even every month.
>on 100K by yourself
Sounds like you're a dumb goy.

Walmart and EBT isnt much different from a Soviet or Venezuelan bread line, only more cashiers.

Jesus Christ the propaganda is taking effect here. First of all, under socialism people still benefit from work. Even in authoritarian countries like the Soviet Union, there were differences in pay between a doctor and a janitor. Same thing in Cuba. Second of all, people often work even if they don't get paid huge sums of money for it. Most workers don't make huge sums of money, and they still work very hard. Some of them work because they need to earn wages to eke out a living. However, most people especially work because they find a personal reward in their work.

>You dont have to work 40+ hours a week with capitalism, thats the thing, its all about your own personal motivations to do well.
You could open your own company if you have the wits and make a ton of money.

Ahahaha, get a load of this fucking leaf. If you open your own company you will 10000% be working more than 40 hours a week.

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were jews... Remember?

Doesnt matter how much he makes its just paper and digits a computer this doesn't make up for food when the house of cards fails.

No it doesn't

You think it is socialism because you can get free stuff but getting free stuff is a key element of some chains of capitalism and liberalism, you'd know this if you fucking STUDIED

What determines if you are living in a socialist society is who owns the means of production, if society owns them you are riding socialism, if the means of production are private properties of specific people/corporations then you are not living in socialism

Name one working case, or non totalitarian government where it worked like this?

Also what is the problem with working 40 hours a week???

If you faggots spent 40 hours a week studying or working instead of shitposting you would not be this uneducated on this subject

Fuck I'm glad this thread will be archived soon

Most working-class people are too poor to start a business.

>mortgage loan that's 98 percent interest and 2 percent to what I actually borrowed, I'm just breaking even every month.

How the fuck do you make $100k/yr and not understand how amortization and compound interest works? Or how to balance a budget?

Maybe Socialism is right for you.

The workers?
They don't own the means of production, do they.

>socialism
>non totalitarian government
Pick one

There are several examples where the people democratically elect a socialist party that seizes the means of production, like uhhh fucking Venezuela, you NEED a totalitarian government for this kind of thing, socialism IS a totalitarian government

Because tzarism was better

OUT

Instead they are forced to rely on Jew loans and be told thats capitalism, currency doesn't always have to degrade in value, imagine a society in which you can save money, I KNOW RIGHT, SAVE MONEY, that is tangible and goes up in value, a currency in which you can make something of yourself and feel good about it.

Well that Society isnt Socialism or paper or digits on a computer instead its real tangible and motivating. Not this controlled fucking system we call capitalism.

No, the whole point is to distribute power equally, Trotsky tried to warn about keeping a one-party system but (((someone))) exiled him.

Get married to an American woman and move to a big city. You'll need more than a high school education and a better understanding of costs of living outside the scope of your backwoods shithole town you live in with your parents.

degenerate statist scum

Naw nigga that was months ago when they realized with all the money in the fucking world back when oil was $100 a barrel we didn't invest in power plants, so Maduro gave everyone days off to save energy. It started raining though, now there's no reason for that. Latest shit he asspulled was a law so private company workers could volunteer to work on government companies, blocking the private company from firing them and making them pay for it too.
Other than that they're making deals with pussy private companies to increase production and export whatever the fuck they can to get dollars into the country so the government can use them to buy food from the outside and keep selling them at a loss to keep poorfags happy.

That's not exactly an analogy for the current economy. Imagine most of a town's available ovens being owned by a few people. The ovens are regularly used to bake lots of pies, but the profit automatically goes to the owners of the ovens rather than those who actually baked the pies. The vast majority of the profit ends up in the hands of the oven owners.

Not an argument.

that's communism, not socialism

power is distributed in communism and you can hardly even say there is a central government if it works like the theory, but until you reach that you will need a totalitarian government and as long as you have that you are in socialism

First of all I never said that owning a company means you don't have to work long hours. You jumped to that conclusion on your own terms.

Secondly to address your shitpost, I know two guys who own their own companies.
One runs a bridge building company which is big enough now that it basically run itself. He rakes in multi million dollar contracts from the municipalities, and spends his days basically doing whatever he wants, the downside is he has to answer his phone a lot.

Second, my ex gf's dad started a company that sold shit like glasses and cutlery to chain restaurants, basically getting their entire company to buy from a certain source. He was just a middle man, did no physical work and made huge amounts of cash. I don't know the exact numbers of his income but I know they owned 3 condos that they rent out, a really nice home, and a cottage in Florida. This guy worked a decent amount but also took 3 day weekends regularely and took off whatever time he felt like, and worked from home.

(((Trotsky))), So the Soviet Union wouldnt be so bloody under Trotsky, your one of those.....

Nice meme.
The GULAG system was virtually closed in the early 1950s. Consumer goods shortages were an issue, but people weren't starving or going without clothes or such past the 1940s.

Not an argument.

>wish Franco was around to put you in the dirt
>mass killing is okay when we do it

>94 million billion trillion gorillion

>Why do you hate socialism?
Well lets see. I read a lot, so I know any kind of "collectivism" fails in the long run...EVERY TIME. And in the process ends up killing millions of citizens.

pls move to Venezuela. pic related

Is the DPRK democratic?

Wouldn't have been bloody at all most likely, Stalin was a powerhungry cunt.

kek so they, are only using some forced labor, and in the meantime they are working with the opposition in Venezuela to increase production to fuel the Socialist system more?

Honestly tho Venezuela bro, how long do you think before the bloodshed or coup or civil war or revolution?

>inb4 Columbia Brazil and US should take in millions of refugee's.

Those concepts are irrelevant. The point is a payment is made and what part of that is actually applied to principal. Doesn't matter what the amortization schedule or escrow is. You pay for a house on average three times before it's actually owned.

The budget is balanced. Never said it wasn't. Again your missing the point of working for others and not yourself, hence the wage slave.

>"collectivism"
Four Ayn Rand books don't count as a lot, user.

The Eastern Bloc and some Latin American and African countries improved tremendously under socialistic governments. Look at Albania in 1945 and then in 1985.

They started it at the end of WW1, they continued till WW2 all sides partook in the bloodbath that is WW2, the left spreads and keeps nationalism down post ww2, and ontop of that they continue to kill and spread the ideology, time for another war :)

Blood begets Blood

Which region and when?

>Marxist education
wew lad

Starvation in the USSR vanished after the mid 1940s.

>Mexico
>communist
Jesus Christ you're deluded.
>le race meme

Same time period Capitalist countries do better, whose to say Albania and others wouldn't do better under another ideology under the same time period.

Beside's, hate to but must look at the best example of Latin America, Chile doing great no oil capitalist, Venezuela doing bad with oil under Socialism, same continent only one real difference.

Socialism, its so corrupt that when a Socialist revolution takes place it veer's from the tenants many Socialists hold deer, it happens because of human nature, this is why its insanity.

Well it's either that or you rent an apartment and put 0% toward the principle. No one forced you to buy that house, no one put a gun to your head and made you sign that mortgage.

Here's the alternative. You get a shitty little apartment... sometimes the heat works in winter, sometimes it doesn't... how dare you question glorious Socialism, comrade!