How to defeat a right winger in an argument: Bring up Utilitarianism...

Utilitarianism

>implying utilitarianism isn't baseless

Jacking off while shooting heroin into your dick and kicking dogs is the highest moral good because it's the most pleasurable thing I can think of.

Right?

Utilitarianism

Yea, what I typed is the definition of american utilitarianism. They aren't mutually exclusive dude

Im kind of embarrassed I even replied in the first place

Stop making benefits and pandering to niggers, spics, and muslims. Whites are 60+ % of the population.

>Utilitarianism

Faggot.

Meme it.

Utilitarianism

Not
An
Argument

Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism = white nationalism

Pursuing utilitarianism, you are morally justified in killing anyone who does not contribute to society.

Too easy. I don't expect leftists to actually understand the words they throw around. Go back to parroting buzzfeed headlines, dumbfuck. You're out of your league.

And yes, I know you'll reply with one word. Killing all leftists would also be a net positive for society.

Consequentialism

>go back to tumblr.

20 days into Poli sci 101, and you've read your first chapter. Congrats.

Utilitarianism is just economics pretending to be morality.

Utilitarianism

Ever since the demonic leftist agenda has taken hold of the West decades ago, peoples happiness has greatly declined across the board, often under the guise of utilitarianism.

Men are unhappier
Woman are unhappier
Children are unhappier

Depression has skyrocketed along with other mental issues like anxiety, autism is more prevalant in kids than ever because they don't go out and play, they play their iPads for 13 hours a day.

Reality doesn't support your theory.

Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism is a failed ideology because no human rationalizes discomfort or pleasure for that manner. Discomforts for me are greater than thee; also outgroups seeking gibs exaggerate to maximize benefits because they see no social capital in trusting the system see blacks.

>Utilitarianism is just economics pretending to be morality.
This is a clever little adage. Did you hear it somewhere or make it up?
Don't mind if I steal it.

Made it up. Please by all means.

Stfu retard fgt

I bloody love utilitarianism, but it doesn't work for everyone because most people don't have the requisite processing power to make good, ethical decisions in a timely enough manner to move on to their next decision.

In a perfect world where everyone is rational and selfless utilitarianism would be great, but sadly we don't live in that world. Instead of creating a catch-all argument against right-wing ideology you've inadvertently summarised why so many left-wing arguments are naive bullshit.

Sounds like something that a socialist would come up with.

Utility belt.

Might makes right faggot

"Right winger" isn't a worldview.

Try again.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

HEY RETARDS

OP IS BAITING YOU

HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING BUT ONE WORD THIS ENTIRE TIME

STOP RESPONDING AND SAGE

GOD DAMN WHY ARE YOU ALL SO FUCKING STUPID

Okay, so we have six people who need an organ transplant to live, and one guy with all six organs in mint condition. Wouldn't it be extremely utilitarian to kill him to save the other six?

Will OP reply with a well constructed thought out argument that refutes points and supports his ideology

>or

Will he reply with 'Ultilitarianism'

Utilitarianism : ^)

roads

WAIT WHAT
HE'S JUST BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER?
I'VE BEEN SO BLIND

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Utilitarianism

oh fuck i thought you meant libertarianism.

>Repeating meaningless words
Typical leftie argument.

Utilitarianism

Utility niggers

Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism

Great post

Is Pro-Life, or Pro-Choice, Utilitarianism OP?

Utilitarianism

I think most people here would like to see you dead. It would make all of us happier.

wtf im utilitarian now

...

that's up to you leaf

Great post.

Utilitarianism

What about gay marriage?

Both right wing opinions that can fit into the sphere of possible emotional appeal.

Hence violating the Utilitarianism theory.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Oppan gangnam style

You don't understand utilitarianism if you think any decision can violate utilitarianism.

Great post.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Utilitarianism

Abortion kills babies, that's sad.

And gay marriage is yucky and weird.

Neither statements are utilitarian.

Great post.

>Utilitarianism
>the ethical doctrine that virtue is based on utility, and that conduct should be directed toward promoting the greatest happiness of the greatest number of persons.

Why should someone's happiness be valued over another's? How is that fair?

Great post.

Utilitarianism

Great post.
Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism

Where do you think you are?

You really don't understand this at all.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Can you explain to me please? It's making me feel upset that I don't understand.

I'll utilitarianism you I tell ya what.

Great post.

Cred Forums, where the cucks wait under bridges and trolls spin through spaghetti contrails to kek's delight.

Great post, Utilitarianism;

Utility monster

Great post$

Utilitarianism

Every individual calculates what is the utilitarian decision for themselves. This means that there is no decision which can not be the utilitarian choice for someone.

Great post.

Utilitarianism

deontology

Utilitarianism

Great post.

U711174r14n15m

saving this post

>claims to be a utilitarian
>still has valuable belongings that could be sold and used to feed starving children

Usefulness isn't objective, dingus.

What is useful to the system isn't useful to me. I want to be left the fuck alone.

Utilitarianism!

Utilitarianism.

Gas the kikes, utility war now.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Great post.

>implying right wing arguments are bad

"Guys, we've run out of clever, well thought out arguments against the right wingers! Use this vague word to debunk any of their arguments!"

It's the fucking liberal version of "I know you are, but what am I?"

Utilitarianism

How to defeat a left winger in an argument: Bring up Reality. Literally everyone of their arguments can be defeated with explaining that one word. Their entire world view is baseless.

Great post.

Utilitarianism

I am Utilitarianism, great post tho.

>how to defeat a Utilitarian 101
>ask for proof
"Well…uh, I just, it's just that, like um, I mean it's…ethics…and it's useful, and j said so."

Reality? Yes, Utilitarianism; great post.

>implying popularizing a non-rational system can't have utility
You're a fucking retard that doesn't understand what utilitarianism even is

Wouldn't it be more utilitarian to force the population to sacrifice well being and liberty to eventually create an immortal human race which experiences nothing but joy eternally?

Great post.

Pleasure and displeasure are tautologies. There is nothing else to base what is good on than what brings you pleasure. There is nothing to base what is bad on than what brings you displeasure.

Utilitarianism

For you maybe, but you can't calculate that decision for others.

Is utilitarianism about the individual or the human race/society in general? I'm not sure

Go back to Ethics 101. Fag.

It's about maximizing the utility of the largest amount of people.

Utilitarianism

Getting this thread to autosage will bring me the most pleasure.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

So how is sacrificing billions, even trillions of lives for an immortal race free to fuck and create more and more immortal people to experience eternal bliss, assuming its possible, not worth more utility

I never said it was or wasn't, I said it's up to you and everyone else to make that calculation yourself.

I don't give a fuck what filthy liberals think about it, seems objectively worth more utility to me, what say we get those labor camps fired up then?

There is nothing that is objectively the utilitarian choice because utility is based around pleasure which is subjective.

Utilitarianism is a bullshit philosophy and is easily explained away.

what is utilitarianism

Your lack of explanation is hilarious.

Utilitarianism

>Your lack of explanation is hilarious.
plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/

There's a good primer.

>dude you're totally wrong just do your research bro here read this [insert link here]
It's really impressive that you can go on google and search for arguments against Utilitarianism. You're really giving my noggin' a good ol' joggin'.

Utilitarianism

>It's really impressive that you can go on google and search for arguments against Utilitarianism.
It's a classic argument against that philosophy, what do you want me to type every word for you? Would you like a simple explanation that you'll strawman to death or would you like something more exhaustive? I gave you the second one.

sorry dude my neurons are occupied I'll be available to think in a little bit

Are you feeling well user? I see people trying to talk to you and you keep uttering this "Utilitarianism" word

Not an argument.

These are NOT great posts.

Not an argument.

If antinatalists have a way out then immortal is always better, isn't it? We can live in a commie shithole after we're immortal if you like

But user people are trying to engage in arguments with you and you won't let them, does this mean your opinion is invalid?

Utilitarianism

What part of never objective do you not understand?

Well it looks like your argument has no substance to it at all, nice talking to you!

Utilitarianism

Not an argument.

Utilitarianism

...

Lol did you just pick up a philopshy book for the first time?

Not an argument.

Utilitarianism

Not an argument.

Incontrovertible fact: You don't know what utilitarianism means.

I think it's a leftist malfunctioning.

Kek. This just screams "2 weeks into poli sci 101". Utilitarianism doesn't work for the same reasons communism doesn't work. They both look good on paper, if all you consider is surface-level theory (which is all liberals have the mental capacity to understand).

Utilitarianism

Not an argument.

It seems like you're forgetting that having scarcity is a temporary phase in human history.

The only ethics I follow are putting myself ahead of everyone else and looking out for my friends and family.

meant to reply to Utilitarianism

Great post.

I disagree. Utilitaraiansmiamsm

Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism?

Ugandaism

this fucking thread

all it takes is one autist (OP) to cause a chain reaction of b8 and autism that fills an entire thread to the brim

Here's one for you SAGE

Utilitarianism

Slide Threadism

I hope these posts were the utilitarian choice for you two.

Anyone who honestly proposes utilitarianism is a pencil necked nerd with a severely receding hairline. The kind of person everyone laughs about incredulously because they can't believe people are so fucking retarded to think that it's even a coherent argument.

Utilitarianism

This is NOT a great post.

I hope suicide is the utilitarian choice for you

It's not

Utilitarianism

Not an argument.

Not an argument
>pleasure and displeasure
That's some lovely curricular rhetoric.
There is nothing to base anything off of anything if we are absolutely rational.
But, as Alexander said "To the strongest!"

Besides, pleasure and displeasure are just more vague subjective terms. It would bring me great pleasure to bring you displeasure (quick note on empathy before you bring it up, the part of the brain which gives empathy, gives hate and the will to kill)
How does one arbitrate between two irrational moral basics without an objective standard? How can pleasure and displeasure be objectively quantified?
Besides, what is the definition of pleasure which can be objectively appealed to in all situations?
Not to mention utilitarianism is literally not capable of moral truth because it lacks moral consistency in adherence to its general principles because it's central basis (pleasure, displeasure) can only be subjectively and therefore arbitrarily
Determined. I would appeal to Kant's categorical imperatives to give credence to this contention.

>a sufficient morality must contain a moral truth
>utilitarianism (as explained above appealing to the categorical imperative) has no moral truth (truth while not necessarily objective by nature must be self consistent by nature)
>conclusion, utilitarianism is therefore not a sufficient moral system

Utilitarismo

/thread

Utilitarianism

>There is nothing to base anything off of anything if we are absolutely rational.
>a sufficient morality must contain a moral truth
Those two statements go against each other. First you claim everything is subjective then you claim morality must contain an objective truth. The claim that "a sufficient morality must contain a moral truth" is baseless. The utilitarian choice is not baseless because pleasure is the only thing that is always good to the individual.

Not an argument.

Utilitarianism

Not an argument.

Not a utilitarian argument

The mummy of Jeremy bentham, creator of utilitarianism. You couldn't be bothered to even resurrect John Stuart mill's arguments? Why are western philosophers always such freaks?

A liberal couldn't even explain it properly. Also
>Crime and Punishment

Utilitarianism

>51 posts by this ID
That's almost a third of the thread

Utilitarianism

Great post.

still not an argument.

First off it's clear you aren't up to date on formal logic or Kantian categories, you know, reason applied.

>objective truth
I even said truth needn't be objective just self consistent. Look
>truth while not necessarily objective by nature must be self consistent by nature.
There is no conflict of statements

You say my premise concerning a sufficient morality is baseless.

You are absolutely entitled to adhere whatever truth-less non-rational ideology you want, just don't pretend it equates to an argument for or against anything.

>pleasure is the only thing always good to the individual
But then that is entirely subjective and therefore can't be forced objectively without conceding the point that any other ideology (which is easily conceded as subjective) is just as legitimate.

>Pleasure based morality
>I'll do whatever makes me feel good and that's good because I feel good

Don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone

Dedicated shitposting.
We really are in decline as a website if people need to do this to cure their boredom.

It's clear that you want to live in a black and white world where one thing is always good and one thing is always bad. But that's just not the world we live in.

Utilitarianism

Hmm i consider myself a utilitaroan right winger and fail to see the conflict

>Everything is grey, man
Wow, how enlightening. Have you ever put any thought to whether that mode of thought is useful? Yes, I'm turning your Utilitarianism argument back on you...

Not an argument.

Whites are the majority.

Racism is utilitarian.

Game, set, match, faggot. Now go back and learn to reason.

Utilitarianism

"Usefulness" is baseless just like justice is. Utility is the only thing that matters. Once communism becomes viable the utilitarian social model will bring the most utility for the most people.

Satan confirms ulititarianism is not an argument

What utility is a lack of moral truths?

Are you retarded or pretending to be retarded?

sage, nigger

Not an argument.

That is a logical fallacy at its zenith, how would one claim that since x is best for 3/4s of the time that x is the only way and the right way.

With the risk of making a false equivalence I would go on to say the following. What if it is the best interest for all of North and South America to eradicate themselves to feed the majority of people in Asia.

After all the majority of the world population would benefit greatly from the increased resources and food.

Yet it is completely wrong to do so.

Too bad I posted something you can't refute by just saying "utilitarianism."

Systemic racism is good for the white majority. White rule is good for minorities because they could not run this country (or any) as well as whites do.

Not even good at rusing.

@ this entire thread:

Utilitarianism

>helping those in need by voluntarily donating food
>wrong

drumpftkins sure are a silly bunch. sage

Utilitarianism

Great post.

Thanks for the second non-argument.

>you want to live in a black and white world where things actually what they are the law of identity and non-contradiction are applicable
You are absolutely right .
Truth and Reason tend to present less 'grey areas' than a morality which rests it's basis upon
>do whatever you determine is good for you

>usefulness is baseless just like justice is
Nope. Justice can be quantified objectivity by a blind scale of fairness or an agreed upon scale.
Hence the reason Greek thought is so prevalent in philosophy, they developed a method for determining presuppositions and their validity, justice comes from a conception of fairness which can be either determined by a collective (democracy) or a more objective determination which is in the least self consistent even if not universally acceptable

>he hasn't read Republic
>he doesn't understand the Socratic revelations
He gets it.

that is a logical fallacy pleeb

Everything can be quantified. That doesn't mean everything is objective.
One group of people can agree upon one scale of justice while another group of people may agree upon another scale. It's completely subjective. That is why what is just has changed throughout history. There is no way to prove that someone's belief in what they view as justice is true or false because the only other thing to base their belief's on would be the subjective beliefs of other people or the subjectively agreed upon scale.

Utilitarianism accepts the subjective nature of the world where as you reject the nature of reality.

I hope this post brought you a lot of utility.

memetarianism

Utilitarianism

Yet another… non-argument.

>everything can be quantified
Not objectively, which is the significant point.
>one group of people juxtapose another
Yes, both have systems of justice based upon fairness, seems pretty objective to me, but it's not totally ironclad, what is? Self consistency.

>it's completely subjective
I don't think you understand how subjectivity pertains to the discussion.
People can still be wrong within those subjective moralities, am I not bound to my own subjective morality as you are to yours? Is there not a self consistency even within the subjective realm?
We are and there is.

>there's no way to prove one man's belief
Agreed
>utilitarianism accepts the subjective nature of the world…
Sure, but that doesn't make a sufficient moral system or a self consistent moral system

You're trying to define truth as objective, I am defining truth as self consistent. You'll find that my definition is far more applicable to reality.

>you reject the nature of reality
Nah, I reject your understanding of it.
Forgive me if I don't see you as the gatekeeper to "reality".
And stop using squishy terms like "reality". It just really drives down the quality of your non-arguments.

still waiting for a response or a rebuttal/refutation to my original argument.

Also, on subjectivity, subjectivity is irrelevant when the conversation is about moral truth, as I've said already I am using the categorical imperative to determine truth. Truth is that which is self consistent, you're defining truth out of existence by saying truth must be objective but conceding that all is subjective.
Another thing on subjectivity, it's an unknown unknown. Neither you nor I know if everything is really subjective because we aren't omniscient, however we can discern truth if we apply the categorical imperative of self consistency.

Not to mention subjectivity falls apart because it declares itself the totality of propositions while the same time being a non-proposition.

As a technocrat I can guarantee you that utilitarianism will never work since everyone and everything we will ever make shall be doomed to be flawed and will not be capable of determining the absolute most efficient usages of everything.
I may believe in the hopes of its possibility however I am most non-delusional.

The categorical imperative can allow us to view small pieces of reality which may be subjective through the objective lense of viewing it through its own presuppositions. We then apply this principle of self consistency to determine whether the propositions put forth are consistent/true with the framework that is presented. Even though said framework may be subjective, truth can exist within as long as it is self consistent. This is something like metaphysical empiricism and it's why Kantian thought can be found in every philosophy that came after Kant.

It's also user friendly with Kantian categories of knowledge, all one has to do is postulate some presuppositions and apply non-contradiction then the principles understood through the presuppositions and the central principle of non-contradiction one can make a "subjectively" objective framework.
It's incredibly easy yet utilitarianism fails utterly.

>Yes, both have systems of justice based upon fairness, seems pretty objective to me, but it's not totally ironclad, what is? Self consistency.
Their systems of justice are quantified subjective beliefs. There is nothing objective about it. There is no fact to be represented only personal feelings and opinions.

The rest of your post follows that false "argument" so I won't bother with it.

more jargon that follows your flawed thinking

Utilitarianism

To the righty it's not simply that the pipe obstructs brooms and leads to damage and makes no sense. It is that the wall looks different between each photo, which doesn't matter one shit

>utilitarianism
So you're saying that technocracy isn't utilitarianism and somehow saying utilitarianism is the answer to "I don't think humans nor machines are capable of it"?
Pathetic. You.

Utilitarianism

wtf i love utilitarianism now

Not an argument

>false argument
Prove it.

>both systems of justice adhere to a sort of inherent fairness
>nothing in common

>nothing objective about it
Why is this an interesting claim? You're not bringing anything to the table.
What are you trying to convey by saying they aren't objective? I am not saying they are objective, they aren't, readily conceded.
But they are self consistent, that's the significant part, because self consistency is where utilitarianism fails, it has no self consistency because it's foundational principle of pleasure and displeasure aren't self consistent with eachother.
They change rapidly depending on any sort of stimuli, you're essentially just saying "what's good now is good now until I decide it's not good" that's not a rational paradigm and it's not an intellectual moral framework which stands up to scrutiny.
It is devoid of truth as truth must be self consistent.
Truth being self consistent within a paradigm renders the subjectivity of the paradigm itself irrelevant since the consistency within the paradigm is found only within the paradigm itself. It is not an outside looking in method of determining.

>more jargon that follows from your flawed thinking
Not an argument

I'm betting you won't tell me how it's flawed thinking?

>Utilitarianism

>Utilitarianism
aaarghhh my skin burns, stop saying it, please

Great post

Utilitarianism

You don't know the definition of objective.

Objective is a fact which does not rely on personal feelings or opinions.
The scale of justice societies agree upon all rely upon personal feelings or opinions.
Therefore, our scales of justice are not objective.

Utilitarianism

Great post.

So IOW you're talking about the final solution to end right-wingers, rite?

>you have to eat all the eggs. Rising sun edition.

Utilitarianism

You guys are fucking idiots. This is a slide thread, trying to Correct the Record. The Skypes are Skyping you

When I kill one nigger, I feel a greater joy that could outweight the maximum magnitude of emotions felt by rest of the world. By utilitarianism, you are inclined to let me kill every nigger in the world.

HE FUCKING RUINED THOSE EGGS. THEY'RE FUCKING OVERCOOKED

There are more christians than fags, there for no gag marriage as it offends them. Utilitarianism!

Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism

>21:16:16
>02:06:36
>This faggot has been in this thread mindlessly posting "utilitarianism" for close five hours.

Bot or weapons grade autism?
You decide.

I am amazed that the "feed her eggs" meme made it all the way to Japan.

Utilitarianism?

>Utilitarianism
Heh, i thought this was about energy saving for yourself. You can become pretty inventive with things......
Now, who would be doing this on a Human scale? Oh shit..... Maybe this isn't the argument that you are looking for.

Utilitarianism.

Amazing thread

>Utilitarianism
Utilitarianism

How much utility could a utilitychuck chuck if a utilitychuck could chuck utility?

Great post

Rastafarianism

Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism

Great post

saving this post

Utilitarianism

saving this post

Utilitarianism

ITT jews

Utilitarianism

Not an argument
Just some really scintillating non-arguments here.

>our scales of justice are subjective
Yes, I know, you retarded goog, I haven't said anything contrary to that.
What I have said, multiple times, is those moralities which are entirely subjective, are self consistent.
Their subjectivity has no relevance or bearing on their self consistency.
Those self consistent moralities contain moral truths by way of their self consistency.
Utilitarianism, as I've explained before, has no self consistency, it is therefore a system without moral truth and thus is an insufficient morality as I explained in my second post.

Don't you want to peddle your non-arguments somewhere else?

Once again you're misrepresenting what qualifies as objective. If you know that something is subjective then it can not be objective just because someone has remained consistent in their subjectivity. You're claiming that something which is subjective is insufficient because it is not objective, which is faulty logic.

Utilitarianism

It only defeats this outgroup camp that you've put people into by default for no adhering to your strict ingroup narrative if you're thinking short term. As in, you're thinking about ONLY the people that exist RIGHT NOW without regard for future generations. The second you extend your logic past the first two generations, your logic crumbles and your narrative is shattered.

Long term, conservative values are generally the way to go as they have been proven with time. However, there are exceptions to this such as when a break point has been reached and immediate, drastic action needs to be taken with only logic and self preservation as driving principles, like right now with the situation in Europe, the US, and nearly everywhere else. E.g.: Gassing the kikes and making the day of the rope a reality makes sense in the long run for a truly prosperous society that will exceed our current status on the Kardashev scale, but in the short term it only serves a small minority.

Utilitarianism

I think you might be on the spectrum.

Utilitarianism is the most autistic shit ever.

If any ethical system contradicts basic moral common sense, if it classifies what we generally consider to be good people as immoral, it is invalid. The purpose of ethics is to clarify and give consistency to our basic moral perceptions. Obviously this is hazy, but there is a limit to how far a line of logic can do when it contradicts fundamental human experience.

Utilitarianism does such. Utilitarianism states that people who have jobs, who take care of their families and are good parents, and obey laws are immoral if they don't focus their actions to benefit the majority (whatever that means.) 99% of people, including liberals, would agree that such people meet the criterion for moral people as long as they don't do something reprehensible that infringes on others basic rights.

Utilitarianism is shit Q.E.D.

Utilitarianism

>basic rights
lol, good one

Great post.

>tfw a furry who masturbates too much
Oh well, at least I'm not a gay commie, don't know what hotaru is, only play airsoft and counterstrike maybe once a year tops, and do know the difference between a clip and a mag (I'm licensed to carry).

Utilitarianism

Utilitarianism soiled every single counterargument made in this thread, excellent points OP. I am going to go out onto the internet world with this new debate strategy and destroy all the right wing morons.

Great post.

Utilitarism is common in the right winger. Retard.

Utilitarianism

wtf Utilitarianism is a right wing ideology

Deontology

This is probably the worst post I've seen on Cred Forums. This HAS to be a leaf with a proxy