Honest question, is veganism and conservatism just entirely incompatible...

dont listen to these shills, veganism is the only sustainable diet. veganism goes hand in hand with spirituality and self improvement which is the real redpill.

these stupid kids think putting dead animal flesh in your mouth makes a man out of you in 2016.

even hitler was a vegetarian.

i can understand what you mean, with "rights" being an artificial construct, but if you throw all ideas of ethics out the window why do anything? Why not gonna murder your neighbor rape your dog? Social consequences yes, but still, there must be some objective manner of morality. maybe not, i dunno

Because I have nothing to gain from such actions and much to lose.

Morality, too, is a spook.

most people blindly consume animal flesh and are completely shilled by the animal agriculture industry. this place talks of conspiracies but are goys for one of the biggest and most disgusting industries

>Top Tier
Being Vegan/Vegetarian for fitness reasons
>Acceptable Tier
Being Vegan/Vegetarian because you dislike the taste of meat
>Tumblr Tier
Being Vegan/Vegitarian because you think grazing animals deserve equal rights

Nah being vegan is the healthiest way to live. Technically raw vegan if you can stand it.

isn't acting out of your best interest still a moral code though?

It's as much a moral code as atheism is a religion.

i get that. but, followup question, what if your role in this world was reversed? I'm assuming youre a first world human with access to plentiful resources to your disposal, even at the expense of others. What if you were further down that totem pole? would you hope for people to have rationale and empathy, or would you expect people to just act out of their best interest, even out of cost to you?

if there is even a slight moral question wouldnt a true conservative choose the safe answer in this case veganism. its the same reason im against abortion, and war in general.

Vegan diets are detrimental to fitness. It's difficult, time consuming and expensive to acquire a complete amino profile in sufficient quantities while maintaining the correct caloric intake and achieving proper micronutrient intake if you opt to completely remove all animal products from your diet. Vegetarian is little better, and here I speak from experience, because the temptation to gorge oneself on carbs is both ever present and appealing. At least you may still consume dairy which is useful.

Aside from diet, a vegan also can't use a good weight belt or straps since the best examples of these are made from leather. Not to mention the myriad of animal products used in supplements and medicines.

it can be more difficult, but by no means impossible, people dont go vegan for the sake of convenience. there are plenty of weight lifters and athletes that are vegan, so it definitely can be done

The two are not mutually exclusive. Fortunately we have evolved with a certain degree of empathy (ironically because of our selfish genes).

By the way my moral code isn't entirely about self-interest that's just Stirner memeing. Rights /are/ a fiction though.

Indeed, so why take on immense downsides with no upside?

Unless, as I suspect, people don't actually go vegan for health benefits but for personal aggrandizement and attention.

so you can admit that there is empathy inherit in humans, why cant it be shown to animals? most people do feel bad for animals, but animal agriculture is all done behind closed doors and people turn the other cheek so their actions dont need to be called into question. sure, some people hunt and really dont mind taking the life of animals, but thats not most

its not based out of personal attention and gain but a desire to minimalisze unnecessary suffering, and out of disgust for an industry

Because our empathy only extends as far as the amount of our genes likely to be present in another animal. While it is true that we do share a large percentage of total genes with the lower mammals much of it is either nonfunctional or irrelevant (in so far as being common to all animals or all mammals) so our programming opts to discard that empathy in favour of survival.

Would you grant an amoeba rights? What about your own gut flora?

the problem is a combination of ideologues hijacking animal rights for their personal political agenda and stupid conservatards who think the most primitive subhuman is also the best conservative and that everything civilized is evil librulism.

So purchase ethically farmed meat? Reduce your meat consumption? Lobby for tighter industry regulation?

You won't though, because none of the reasonable options allow you to self-identify with a trendy label.

so are you at least ethically consistent about it? are you unbothered by chinese and koreans doing to dogs and cats what we do to cows and pigs? that animals in general just exist under the boot of humanity to do with as we please?

>am I alone in this

Yes you are.
Kill yourself immediately faggot

>ethicially farmed meat
essentially non-existent, especially in regards to feeding people on a mass scale. and perhaps i dont want animals to die at all for my sake. if you think its some trendy label you misunderstand greatly. vegans just get shit on by everybody and make social situations uncomfortable. i dont know why i would want that, but thats not the point

thanks

>so are you at least ethically consistent about it?
Yes.
>are you unbothered by chinese and koreans doing to dogs and cats what we do to cows and pigs?
Yes.
>that animals in general just exist under the boot of humanity to do with as we please?
No, nothing exists /for/ anything. The roles of humans and other animals are as the result of natural law. Three millennia of state interference has barely managed to even put a dent in that.

Would you give an amoeba rights?

can you expand on that a bit? i think i agree with you, but i dont fully understand your post

>vegan
Do you know that plants also feel when they are being eaten?

>would you give an amoeba rights?
no, that wouldn't at all be in reason or beneficial to anything. same thing with mosquitoes, they can all die for what i care. but in regards to the treatment of sentient animals like pigs and chickens, i can definitely say that i dont agree with the way we mindlessly destroy and consume

so because plants have stimuli response we shouldn't try to minamilize suffering? thats not even an argument bro

>essentially non-existent

I don't know about the US but ethically farmed meat is certainly available in the UK. There are several bodies both government and independent which certify that the meat has been farmed responsibly. Though, in reality, effectively all meat is ethically farmed since life expectancies, incidence of disease and methods of killing in all farming are all far better than anything nature has ever, or indeed could, provide.

As far as 'feeding people on a mass scale' goes I agree. The vast majority of humans shouldn't even be alive to need feeding meat or no meat.

why don't meat eaters do this? most of them claim not to be total sociopaths. but they never make it an issue except when the topic is veganism.
>B-b-but theoretically we could .....
They never DO anything.
And if we did all that there would need to be a reduction that is similar to veganism. Organic is just a trick to keep the status quo. It will always be a tiny niche.

Do whatever you want and stop worrying what others think of you
You should however consider atleast giving your children animal products when they are growing up. While it can be argued that grown adults are capable of having good living standards with a vegan diet, i have to tell you it would be borderline childabuse to force your kids to go vegan.
I know you didn't say anything about kids or anything in that direction, but that's the only thing i actually have to say about veganism

I fear your view of nature, as serene and utopian, is misinformed. Chickens are incredibly stupid and incapable of self-awareness. I have not farmed cows but I imagine the circumstance is similar.

Don't be degenerate, eat at least the bare minimum of animal produce your body requires.

Honestly, who gives a fuck? Eat meat, don't eat.

What I am going to say to you however is that you are vegan and the like, shut you're fucking mouth and don't be one of these condescending cucks who tries to push their bullshit on everyone.

You'll be dead in a post-industrial world as it is anyway, so we're cool.

i have had chickens, pigs, cows, horses, ect. i spent a lot of time on a farm growing up, so i would have to say that i very much disagree.

>not being vegetaryan master race, vegan with the exception of pig solely to trigger muslims and jews

as much as i love triggering muslims, pigs are way too intelligent and docile for me to consume

I think you're being idyllic again. Just because an animal may be conditioned to illicit a particular response does not mean it is capable of tekhne.

animalcognition.org/2015/04/15/list-of-animals-that-have-passed-the-mirror-test/

wether or not an animal meets a certain intelligence parameter doesn't change my ethical stance on them

But you claim that you only grant rights to sentient animals?

No

Consider the following:

Richard Wagner was a vegan and tried to cure humanity with vegan food.

perhaps i may have stretched the meaning of sentience, because that word is debated. but, all animals are capable of thoughts and feelings and pain, wether or not they are smart doesn't mean they deserve less, though ill admit im furhter angered at the destruction of more intelligent animals like pigs and elephants

Just go Vegetarian you silly billy
>Can eat ice cream and not disgusting cocunut ice
>Can eat cheese
>Can eat eggs
>Can drink or consume a wide variety of milk based products
>All that good karma of not eating meat
>Maintaining a healthy weight is easy
Being Vegetarian is easy modo
I miss burgers (really I do) and now eat giant mushroom patties covered in cheese with sun-dried tomatoes on a toasted bun... it's not the same but it's still pretty dam good

What about fish? As far as sentience goes they're down there with amoebas but I imagine you forbid yourself from eating them as well.

>All that good karma of not eating meat

You're still, supposedly, supporting the suffering of animals through dairy and egg farming.

No, not really.

I'm not vegan but have a bunch of red pilled friends who are.

They aren't pushy with it, they just ask if they can bring their own stuff to parties or I accommodate them if I can. If they weren't a friend I'd tell 'em to fuck off but since I respect them and they respect me I'll go out of my way for them like they do for me.

>You're still, supposedly, supporting the suffering of animals through dairy and egg farming
That's going to happen regardless because mankind has grown accustomed to harvesting animals for other resources, whether I support that or not it's still going to happen so I have to just deal with how that's never going to change... so partial good karma

Impressive rationalization.

>am i alone in this

No.

The republican "small government" legislatures that passed laws banning hidden cameras to uncover illegal activities in meat factories because of bribes from tge industries arent conservatives. They are whores that sell out the country for their own personal gain

You're not alone. Empathy for animals is an overwhelmingly white trait. Googles hurt animals without a second thought. Skypes kill them in ridiculous kosher rituals. Gooks torture them to "make the meat taste better."

The National Socialists in Germany were probably the first major modern political movement to support animal rights. If you don't believe me, look it up.

fish are still capable of what i described, even if they are less able to express it. i dont support destroying the local ecosystems they dwell in. i understand some arctic people and whatnot have to fish for its the only food source they have, but once again, thats not most peopel

Vegan trump supporter here

Don't worry about being stereotyped

You are not alone

They're really not. Their brain:body weights are microscopic compared to mammals and lack the nervous system capability to associate bodily damage with suffering.

Also your second point seems a little too utilitarian for someone who subscribes to such a utopian ideology.

No, veganism is ultimately the most ethical way of nourishing yourself in order to maintain homeostasis, just because everyone else has small dicks and insists that eating big steaks makes them men, doesn't mean that we are incompatible with conservatism.

>inb4 ur x y z

stay pleb and base, meat mongrels.

i have noticed that outside of indian culture white people are the only ones iv'e met who actively participate in animal rights, so i would agree

So use leather items; if the thing is already made and the animal is dead you don't have to be a complete faggot about it

The best vegans are those who never fucking mention it

its maybe idealistic but i wouldnt say utopian

What do you think about eating fish?

as i had mentioned above i'm not for eating fish either

>neither do women
I corrected your typo there, friend

>So use leather items

This would be inconsistent with their ideology and would likely lead to ostracism from their clique. The same argument can also be applied to animals slaughtered for consumption.

What about eating insects? I doubt they meet your arbitrary definition of sentience. Assuming they were presented in an appealing manner.

Your body does not require any. Even B12 can be gotten from Nori and Tempe.

Nori blocks B12 uptake.

for health reasons its good to avoid them because most are contaminated with toxic metals and hormone-disrupting chemicals like pthalates.

wrong

>A nutritional analysis was conducted on the dietary intake of a group of 6 vegan children aged 7 to 14 who had been living on a vegan diet including brown rice for from 4 to 10 years, and on that of an age-matched control group. In addition, their serum vitamin B12 levels and other data (red blood cell count, hematocrit, hemoglobin, etc.) were determined in the laboratory. In vegans' diets, 2-4 g of nori (dried laver), which contained B12, were consumed daily. Not a single case of symptoms due to B12 deficiency was found. There were no statistically significant differences between the two groups with respect to any of the examination data, including B12 levels (p < 0.05). Therefore, consumption of nori may keep vegans from suffering B12 deficiency.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8926531/