He fell for the "without God there is no morality" meme

>he fell for the "without God there is no morality" meme

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>There can be little doubt that Nietzsche is the most important figure in modern atheism, but you would never know it from reading the current crop of unbelievers, who rarely cite his arguments or even mention him. Today’s atheists cultivate a broad ignorance of the history of the ideas they fervently preach, and there are many reasons why they might prefer that the 19th-century German thinker be consigned to the memory hole. With few exceptions, contemporary atheists are earnest and militant liberals. Awkwardly, Nietzsche pointed out that liberal values derive from Jewish and Christian monotheism, and rejected these values for that very reason. There is no basis—whether in logic or history—for the prevailing notion that atheism and liberalism go together. Illustrating this fact, Nietzsche can only be an embarrassment for atheists today. Worse, they can’t help dimly suspecting they embody precisely the kind of pious freethinker that Nietzsche despised and mocked: loud in their mawkish reverence for humanity, and stridently censorious of any criticism of liberal hopes.

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This is a logical fallacy known as an "ad hominem" where they attack the person rather than the argument

Even worse, he fell for the Trump could be president meme

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

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Not an argument! Stupid Christians

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kek there's always this one buttblasted american posting all the atheist memes

Moral subjectivity is the cancer killing the world.

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the thing is those cringy, fat atheists are more intellectually capable than you. you don't need to be cool to be smart

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Im a gnostic theist I just wanted to test what people might have to say

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I'm a vegan carnivore and I eat glass.

always

such a laugh

religious people are touchy

Post an argument! Or more memes. Whatever. Keep bumping the thread idgaf

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Religion is a good method for making people behave.
Do you have a better alternative?

I'd guess you probably are a bit of a neckbeard yourself

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le strawman meme faec xd

If you have to be threatened with eternal hellfire in order to be a good person then you are not a good person

Christians are literally grasping at straws at this point. Their only argument is posting pictures of unattractive men wearing an unfashionable hat.

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>He fell for the religion is not needed to keep society in order meme.

>a good person

Nice spook, m8.
As long as you behave I don't give a shit about "who you really are".

C'mon, I'm an atheist/agnostic too, but there's nothing wrong with having a laugh about some edgy fedora wearers

I'm no christcuck but
>without God there is no morality
is objectively true. You can have values as an atheist, but not morality. Morality inherently implies a higher power.

>Morality inherently implies a higher power.

Americans are so stupid when it comes to religion.

>When atheists can't ground objective moral values and duties

youtube.com/watch?v=kvhGsEsVda4

what do you expect them to do?

every talking point they had in the last 2 millenia has either been disproven by science

>them: the world flooded! noahs ark!
>science: wheres the geographic evidence? why are there fresh and salt water fish when a worldwife flood would have killed one or both of them. There would have been catastrophic genetic depression from just a few people surviving.
>them: uhhhh....ummmm...it was a metaphor all along!

>morality

>needing an imaginary skydaddy to know right from wrong

urge to beat these fedora faggots rising

at what point did we gain this mythical "morality"

heres a short compressed timeline of belief

>none
>sun worship
>animalism
>shaminism
>polytheism/paganism- multiple gods
>monotheism

when did we "gain" it

Well, you need SOME sort of strong ideology to keep society in order. Religion has it's dangers and downsides, but the right amount of religiosity in society does the job. For that matter, it's pretty irrelevant if religion in itself is logical or not
Unchecked loss of greater virtues and morals leads to the degradation we are currently witnessing in the west.

>continental philosophy

well it's true, in a way. morality is not objective and anyone that tries to claim it is, is wrong. there can be a moral society without god, though.
you'll have a lot less people deciding to reject their society's morals after they go through their first nihilist thoughts and come to the conclusion that god doesn't exist if those morals aren't held up as objective and rooted in god

I don't think it HAS to be religion though. Wouldn't it obviously be more beneficial to instill a great pride of one's people and nation state in our little sheeple, with a strict set of guidelines to serve? Then you wouldn't have such a big problem with intellectuals tearing you ideology apart purely for it's logical holes.
>inb4 Hitler already tried this

>middle east
>highly religious since the birth and dead of Mohammad
>complete shit hole disaster zone. No order.
>similarly all of Africa
>religious countries are more poor

Could we turn this into a genuine discussion thread? Has been a while since I've seen one on Cred Forums.

True,

You see, us atheist's do our good deeds without the fear of god. We help the homeless, feed stray dogs and we do this knowing god is not real, we do these things knowing they are good deeds and because that makes us feel good.

Now godfags only do these things because they fear God. It doesn't make them feel good at all, they only feel temporarily relieved because God has taken his crosshair off them for a moment. Without god they would kill every homeless person and dog in a heartbeat. Godfags are evil humans that need to be controlled through god. They know no true morality, only what their Bible says is a good deed or not.

If "G o d" exists he can look into our hearts and will see that atheist's have true heart while godfags only act nice because they fear Satan.

Hope all my Cred Forums atheist friends all have a lovely day!

>in this moment I am euphoric. Not because of any phony science, but because I am enlightened by my faith to the true master of the universe, Lord Yahweh, protector of Israel and the twelve tribes

Yet, the West has it's own set of problems. Our societys are slowly breaking apart because of our lack of virtues. You know that, or else you wouldn't come here to post.

What the fuck is there to discuss? If you believe that morality comes from a magical sky fairy like someone from the Middle Ages you deserve to be laughed at and ridiculed.

>I simply cannot believe that its 2016 years after the birth of our lord Yeshua Christ, and people still deny his divinity. Its almost as if they never even read the ancient Judaic texts that specifically confirm his divinity. I swear to Yahweh, if I wasn't living in this athiest ruled society today I would go all deus vault on these heathens

>I am always amused when athiest are trying to deny god. They all get so mad and start babbling about big explosions and other phony stuff. I simply keep calm and repeat them my favourite bible quote. This immediately shuts them down and makes them mad. I converted 23 athiest so far with my intellectual power

*jihad intensifies*

>look all these sad athiests, desperately trying to find truth in human made stuff like science that is constantly changing. Meanwhile I have achieved the highest possible enlightenment by simply reading the ancient and sacred Hebrew texts that remained unchanged throughout times, I am ready to face any challenge in this world while at the same time I am in a constant state of euphoria, due to my closer proximity to the divine

Read my posts pls. Also, isn't the unwillingness to discuss one of the traits of the fanatical leftists we hate so much?

>Just as I expected, all the athiests retreated to their holes, no one has the guts to argue with me. Just so you know, I am extensively well read In the Torah, New testament and all the apocrypha texts. I also memorized all the Chronicles from the Old testament in the original Hebrew. I would like to see an """"educated"""" atheist try to argue with me

no

we got one american that is buttblasted about people that dont want to join his desert cult that hes now uploading his entire hat attire folder. he rest of us dont have a problem with athiesm or other religions

For your next one post that rare trump w the katana

>muh leftists

idgaf. There is still right and wrong. I'm not debating the flat Earth either.

R A R E
A
R
E

they've been losing for the past century or more

they're reduced to gnashing their teeth about gay marriage

they can't lay claim on any kind of morality

Don't you fucking dare ever call me rare again you stupid piece of shit. I am tired of stupid newfags like yourself keep calling for rare flags all the time its not funny or original at all, you are the reason why everybody is mocking Cred Forums and is leaving for reddit. You are a cancer on this board that constantly shits all over serious political discussions and derails threads for your puerile shenanigans. Well no more faggot, I just wrote a personal email to Hiroyuka Nishimuri himself and I am telling him ban all the retards who call out rare flags and if you fuckers find a way to keep doing it I will tell him to ban flags altogether so think before you start rareflagging next time you fucking shit.

Nice shitpost / 10
I agree tho

>You know that.

Stupid Kraut. If you think today is bad then you literally have no historical perspective. Today's world is the most peaceful time in the entire history of man and this is not just some fluff repeated by Obama. Truth is on every measure, whether battle field deaths, causalities in war, rates of terrorism you name it, it has gone down.

If you honestly think that sexual conservatism is the pinnacle of morality, then you wouldn't know what morality was if it hit you in the head.

And it is not as if Christianity was a bastion of virtuous individuals in the past. Even at the height of Christendom infidelity, adultery and homosexuality took place. Hedonism is something that not even Christians have been able to evade.

Current statistics even show that Christians are more likely to be adulterous than their atheist counterparts.

But these statistics only matter to those who care about them. And I don't. Because unlike you, I don't think that sexuality has anything to do with morality.

Quoting myself:
>Well, you need SOME sort of strong ideology to keep society in order. Religion has it's dangers and downsides, but the right amount of religiosity in society does the job. For that matter, it's pretty irrelevant if religion in itself is logical or not.
Unchecked loss of greater virtues and morals leads to the degradation we are currently witnessing in the west.
>Yet, the West has it's own set of problems. Our societys are slowly breaking apart because of our lack of virtues. You know that, or else you wouldn't come here to post.

RARE
A
R
E

There isn't, otherwise moral nihilists couldn't exist. "Atheists" who pretend to have morals are just retards who pretend to be special and super sceptical whilst still harbouring their own "delusions". Anyone who says otherwise is a shit tier atheist who is just in it for the edginess.

ps. I'm not an Atheist anymore but I do care about people being consistent.

"IT'S BAD CUZ IT'S BAD"

Brilliant argument. Atheists will never be able to answer this even semi-coherently.

This is a rare amount of anger

Forgot to mention, that these measures aren't just on statistics for war.

They include civilian crimes as well. Rape has gone down (unless your an SJW), violent crime has gone down. Murder all across the west has gone down every decade.

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There's a difference between having a laugh at cringy fedoras, and actually being a dumb christfag who thinks they win the argument by posting fedora memes.

Atheists are the most moral people and have the most moral societies. Theistic Muslims have the most immoral societies.

>"IT'S BAD CUZ IT'S BAD"
That's the atheist argument.
The religious argument is
>it's bad because god said so and there's a whole bunch of tradition and churches and shit

Both are illogical, but the religious argument is more charming.

>Adolf Hitler
>Christian

>Malcom X
>Not a criminal

I'm not disputing that today is good and peaceful time to live in. Yet, the signs of degradation in Canada and Germany are obvious. Do you think the conservative society of the German Empire would EVER accept the flooding of their country with millions of sandniggers slowly breeding them out of existence?
Surely a conservative society is better than a failed society.

Angela Merkel is a Christian and leader of the Christian union party and invited millions of refugees

China is atheist and accepted only 9 refugees.

think about that kike worshiper

having morals is not the same as believing those morals are legitimized by a higher power. you make a decision about what is right and wrong based on tradition and your upbringing, what you believe is good for the world
people claim morals are divine so they're followed more but if a society doesn't delude themselves about the origins and purpose of those morals they can prosper and at the same time be logically consistent.
If you believe that morals are by definition absolute and objective I'd have to concede the original point, but I think that that's debatable.

All of the real degradation comes from imported shitskins and mudslimes. The native populations are more moral than they have ever been.

Im still discovering god but I am a fairly moral dude

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU I SAID I'M NOT RELIGIOUS
IT'S ABOUT INSTILLING A STRICT SET OF VIRTUES IN SOME WAY

theres photographic evidence, theres letters, theres speeches, theres eye witness testimony that Hitler was Roman Catholic

you dont get to deny it cause you dont like being associated with a supposed genocider

Also, Merkel, like most people in western societies, follows a version of christianity that's been influenced by liberalism way to much for decades now. It hardly sets a strict set of virtues anymore.

so why not instill them with the virtues of Stoicism? far better than a kike worshiping desert cult

Retard

>if a society doesn't delude themselves about the origins and purpose of those morals they can prosper and at the same time be logically consistent.

Fundamentally it's all arbitrary. There's no logical imperative to do or not to do anything.

>puts quote of Hitler before he got elected
lmao
thats like Trump saying bible is his favourite book to get the evangelical vote. Read some of his private thoughts about Christianity and see how much he hated it

So you can be a moral atheist, as long as you're not a cuck.

>signs of degradation are obvious
People who say "its obvious" without in a meaningful discussion (assuming thats what you wanted) are lazy or actually have no concrete examples as to this so called degradation. And note, you aren't the first person and to say that society is becoming degenerative and falling. Karl Marx has said it, Hitler said it. Your grandfather probably said it. Doesn't mean its truth.

Now, lets see what you wrote.
>Do you think...
This is a German problem. Not a problem of Canada. We accepted 15k refugees that were picked up from UN camps and were individual vetted.

There are so many levels of confusion with your post. I'm actually convinced that the only source of your knowledge about your own country is literally Cred Forums. It's quite shocking.

First of all, you are starting out with the presupposition that everyone in Germany supports the policy taken by Angela Merkel almost unilaterally to accept migrants without deportations. This is patently untrue. Members of her own party are on the brink of mutiny against her. Her political career is all but ruinous as a result of the backlash as a result of her move. The rise of the AfD in German politics as shows that people do not support unrestricted immigration.

Second, slowly breeding them out of existence.
First of all Germany has one of the most generous maternity leaves in the world with 14 months of maternity leave of which 65% of income is paid for by the government. I believe Canada has a slightly higher percent of maternity leave. There are numerous child benefit programs, free education at both the secondary and high levels. And a whole host of social institutions that in theory are supposed to increase birth rates. Low birth rates in Germany are a cultural/economic issue that can be explained by 2nd year university students who understand logistic DE. You are literally choosing to numb yourself with the cancer on Cred Forums. It's quite embarrassing.

YEAH GOOD IDEA
REALLY
LETS TALK ABOUT THAT
THATS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO ALL ALONG, STARTING A DISCUSSION

Ok, so do you have any idea how introduce society to philosophical concepts like that? Because unlike religion, most people have never heard about stoicism or the like. I'm not really familiar myself to be honest. I'd also guess you need some more brain for that than just following orders from the church pulpit, right?

He really messed up on that whole "love your neighbour as yourself" and "though shalt not kill" and EVERY OTHER PART OF THE BIBLE.

Damn Catholics

Aspects of Adolf Hitler's religious beliefs have been a matter of debate. He is generally believed to have been skeptical of religion, but opportunistic and shrewdly aware of its influence on politics.[1][2][3][3]

Not even a christcuck you absolute nigger. Stop being so lazy and fucking read some books.

why do you view low birth rates as a bad thing? ever heard of r/K selection? developed countries have less kids because they invest more on the quality of their children, meanwhile shit countries make 6 babies per family in the hopes 1 of them won't be retarded or die from diseases

Stay mad leaf cuck, stop making things up

Stoicism was the prevalent philosophy of Roman elites before it became Christian. Alot of the good virtues you find in Christianity actually come from Stoicism since it was the most prevalent philosophy during the time of New Testament writers like Saul the master kike

that's correct, but if your morals are based upon the false pretense that they're objective because a deity tells you they are, they're more likely to be rejected and disobeyed by members of society

previous POPES have sold "indulgences"

what are indulgences? why sins of course

>rape a child? send me 50,000 gold pieces. There God forgives you
>murder a pregnant mother? send me 100,000 gold pieces. God welcomes you back into the flock

>he doesn't realise a secular world is logically devoid of morality

Always a thread that's guaranteed to have replies.

>wah you are mad leaf cuck

Clean the dog shit out of your mouth, insect.

I don't. But most demographers agree that the birth rate in Western countries and Japan are dangerously below replacement levels. I think two children per family should be the average and is just on the replacement level. Too low is not good for the long term, too high is obviously bad.

Most people aren't skeptics or philosophers. They perceive religion and morals superficially.
But if you were to analyze religion thoroughly you'd still learn to appreciate it for what it is.

The only ones who are butthurt about it are reddit tier atheists who only scratched the surface and think they now know the truth.

I'm quite familiar with the politcal situation in my country. Thanks for your insight on the canadian situation though.
I never said that everyone in Germany supports Merkel, which indeed wouldn't be true. Yet, there also aren't any big revolts like you would expect from a more conservative country like Poland or Hungary, would they be in such a situation.
>maternity leave is very high so it can't be that bad
The point is that there are less and less German children, now matter how much you pay mothers.
You're mentioning the CULTURAL issue yourself. Religious societies (as religion is a part of culture) don't have this problem, at least not by that margin.

Thanks, I'll definitely read up on that

developed countries are also more likely to develop technologies to fix that. its not hard for artificial insemination to fix any population shortage you have

np

Yeah, it's called a nuclear family where tradition and morality can be learned and practiced.

There exist no moral atheists.

All moral statements are only true if:
1:they have a reason to be true
2: they are valid no matter what the acting part desire.

There exist no such reasons for atheists where there are reasons that are valid no matter what people desire.

Atheists who say "murdering innocent people is wrong" can only mean that it is morally wrong as long as you don't want to do it. As soon as someone wants to murder innocent people it is morally good or morally neutral for them.

Christianity has always advocated the nuclear family, so isn't that at least a good thing?

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Except that there are protests in Germany?

Religion is a subset of culture. And note I said, religion and economics.
Religious societies are poorer. (Statistically proven fact) And in these poorer, agrarian societies having more children means more hands to work the fields. More children means that there is a greater chance that at least one of the children will live past the age of 10.

In post-industrial societies the cost of raising a single child to the age of 18 is estimated to be around 250k. If this isn't a huge enough dissuasion in having kids, then coupled with the fact that most people living in post-industrial societies work ~50 hours a week then its no wonder that having even a single child is difficult.

As I said, the mathematics of birth rates is quite simple and well understood. There is nothing extraordinary of this. If you want all of Germany to have higher birth rates, then you'll have to find a way to circumvent all the challenges to new parents that I've just listed. And let me tell you something, forcing these families to adopt Christianity isn't going to do jack shit.

>confusing atheism with moral relativism

Pretty much this. However, that is an effect of an ability to be aware of one's environment innately. Those whom are intelligent temper their actions according to their environment meanwhile those which are stupid do not inhibit their natural desires. This is the reason that the most stupid and ethnic of the west breed like rabbits, because they are generally one in the same.
Most realize innately the faulty system in which they live while directly realizing the needs to progress within it. Within a system that truly rewarded any which were born most would procreate greatly and according to their desires, however in a system which demands great input from those which would desire that their children succeed, they produce little accordingly. The stupid, seeing the basic appropriations of welfare available thusly produce many.
Our welfare state of the west is one of rewarding the stupid and penalizing the ambitious. Any system which provides sustenance to those which wish to do nothing will fail, whereas a system which only provides to those which wish to do greatness will succeed.
There are two solutions, no welfare whatsoever or a socialist system which provides an avenue for advancement or none at all. The latter being free education, free job training, free healthcare, free food, and free temporary housing. However, with this system all means of basic sustenance are temporary meanwhile the means to advance oneself are always available. You either progress yourself or die.
THAT is the only functional form of socialism. It is in that form that it could function in harmony with nationalism and capitalism. Insofar as the monetary system is public.

Long before the religions of Abraham spread the world, families and social structures existed. Humanity survived few and survived.

>religion and economics

I meant culture and economics

>morality
wowee must be the high-est thread

Wanna know how i know you're new, and underage?

I know this is going to come off as special snowflake, and I dont want it to.

But i dont think I fall into agnosticsism like I used to growing up.

At first i felt that there was no way we could know if god was real and that if he was, we couldnt comprehend it.

But now adays I find myself asking so many more questions.

"God is in everything."
What if this means the concept of god matches the concept of reality? Reality is everything as well. That would mean they are the same and what we are experiencing is god. God ia just another name for reality. Being thabkful for god is just being thankful you exist in some fashion. You can experience reality.

But then it delves even deeper.
Ive been told what I say matches aome kind kf theory out there and it wouldnt surprise me.

What if we evolved to percieve reality the way that we do? The mind is like a computer, which isnt a new idea, but reality kept throwing so many things at it during its development. The way we percieve sounds and the things around us from a veryyyy early stage is thanks to the development of us coping with how absolutely bonkers reality really is on a physics level.

Then therea the whole reality adapts to us theory.

Idk.

I just dont know. My concept of god isnt some higher being i look at or imagine anymore. Its just....existence.

>intellectually capable

But wasting that capability trying to come up with arguments against God is what they do.

Sure they did

>confusing atheism with moral relativism
Atheists can't agree on a definition for 'good' or 'evil', so how aren't their morals relativistic?

Aren't atheists supposed to be proud about the fact that they're basically the proverbial 'herd of cats' insofar as you can't make any claims about what the average atheists considers to be just and righteous or unjust and sinful?

Isn't that exactly why you use the words 'moral' and 'immoral' instead and (more often than not) tie them to public consensus?

god is in everything is pantheism

>we evolved to perceive reality the way we do
that what evolution is. your earliest ancestors had very primitive sensors like detecting simple light rays as black and white which then slowly evolved to the multi spectrum color reality you see now

Sweet. There is a name for what Im thinking. Thanks.

Although it seems some people worship. Not my jam, but thanks for clearing that up.

You Aussies understand that words mean things,yes? You are asserting that moral relativism is a property of not believing in a diety. Have you even tried considering that their are people who believe in moral absolutes who are atheists? Or are we going to keep flaming the fire of false equivalency?

i don't give a shit about who you really are but you're an idiot

>Have you even tried considering that their are people who believe in moral absolutes who are atheists?
Sure. I'm trying right now. I can't find an example of a moral absolute that an atheist could theoretically justly believe though. Maybe some sort of ego-driven racialist tribalism could be used as a starting point? I'm really not sure.

I know of ideologies such as secular humanism and equalism, but the former has been subverted by the latter, and the former never gave any justification for its reasoning anyway: where do you draw the line and which humans do you prioritise over others? Who knows? No wonder it was so easily infiltrated by the whole 'atheism+' bs.

Might seem like I'm meandering around the topic: I don't know if you're claiming to believe in the existence of an objective morality yourself yet.