How is god both omniscient and omnipotent at the same time?

How is god both omniscient and omnipotent at the same time?

Other urls found in this thread:

biblehub.com/joshua/10-12.htm
biblehub.com/nlt/matthew/13.htm
youtu.be/g1NfPLFv71U
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I don't see the contradiction

>omni

is there a lot of lead in the water there?

the same way a feminine penis can exist

If god can know what will happen tomorrow can he change what will happen tomorrow? If so what he saw happening tomorrow wouldn't actually happen and he wouldn't have been omniscient

God knows the future because he already decided which way it will go

So then he has now power to change it and hes not omnipotent

he could change something that would happen without his intervention and he did

he saw mankind would suffer the punishment of his law of sin and he came as Jesus to die to free us from that result.

he also once caused the sun to move backward to give Israel a victory in battle

biblehub.com/joshua/10-12.htm

its not that he can't change it, he won't change it

So where can I learn more about the mind of god

since we live in time we can never know what might have been changed by God before the time passes when such an event would have occurred.. who can say that when I hit the Post button God didn't just blow on an steroid that would have hit earth next week or blow on one that never would and aim it at Mecca?

>implying that Omniscient and Omnipotent are mutually exclusive terms

...

why does god have to abide by logic or even physical laws?

You're not omnipotent if you're not omniscient.

It doesn't offer any insight to WHAT god is, at all. It's not human, it's not an animal, not alien, it's 100% unknowable.

Which means the mind of god is just you guessing

>he could change something that would happen without his intervention and he did

No he can't. If he didn't do anything then he didn't do it

>its not that he can't change it, he won't change it

So hes never intervened in our universe ever then? What do you have to believe in him then?

If he has ever acted within our universe he must adhere to both or he couldn't exist. I don't need to show you that a stone that isn't made of anything has ever intervened or existed in out universe because such an object couldn't exist

>It doesn't offer any insight to WHAT god is, at all. It's not human, it's not an animal, not alien, it's 100% unknowable.
What makes you think this.

This is why:

>man is imperfect
>logic was created by man
>ergo logic is imperfect
>if there is a single inconsistency within a logical statement, the entire statement is illogical
>logic is derived from human observation.
>human observation is inconsistent and therefore illogical
>QED logic is illogical
>science is a lie
>fucking magnets

because god isn't real

>So hes never intervened in our universe ever then? What do you have to believe in him then?
The very nature of any occurence is his intervention. He won't intervene with his interventions.

>If he has ever acted within our universe he must adhere to both or he couldn't exist. I don't need to show you that a stone that isn't made of anything has ever intervened or existed in out universe because such an object couldn't exist
God creates our laws. The laws of The Universe are his will. He doesn't abide by the conventional rules that we understand.

There is such a thing as a God, gods or whomever, a vast intelligence if you will. They know how to perpetuate life and all existence, and they have a plan which relies on a combination of factors. They manipulate human history to lead us in the direction they want us to go.

Planets are like us, in that they are born from stars, they age and they die. In their youth, they have an abundance of energy which supports megafauna and higher orders of intelligence which the gods possessed. During this age, the gods walked the Earth and ruled over mankind, who were in a primitive state. The technology they wielded was indistinguishable from magic or miracle.

But the planet aged, and a catastrophe which leveled the primitive civilizations marked the transition from one age to the next, from a higher state of energy to a lower, and the gods left our planet and moved to the next planet which would sustain life: Venus.

In their absence, they have an elect few who rule over mankind. This group is sometimes described as The Powers That Be to conspiracy theorists, or the Illuminati. Some of them are Jews, though not all. They utilize economics, war, art, science, politics, media, germ warfare, academia, any number of means in order to guide human history in the direction they want it to go. The goal is to give us something to believe in, keep us at odds with each other, and keep us ignorant of the ultimate truth until the day our world dies, which I believe to be really, really soon.

It references "he" so we know it's male, beyond that, nothing

He is the Alpha and the Omega, The First and the Last, the beginning and the end, who is and was and is to come

He gave man free will.
He changes what he wills.

Just because God knows what's going to happen doesn't mean that we didn't make the choices ourselves.

God has intervened at times. Like during the construction of the Tower of Babel.

The Nicene Creed. I think this needs to be posted whenever one of these threads come up

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

i believe in niggers from outer space

threadly reminder the bible clearly shows god is not omni-anything

When you think about it, questions like "if god is omnipotent can he create a boulder so heavy he can't lift it?" aren't really about God but about the definitions of those words and how they are inherently contradictory. All they reveal to me is the limits of language in describing things.

>So hes never intervened in our universe ever then?

The universe isn't a wind-up robot that was just let loose. A better analogy would be that the universe is a long, well thought out Rube (((Goldberg))) Device. There's no need to intervene because every step of the way has been preset.

...

Evil is the absence of a good, so when people commit evil they are rejecting the divine order

Man is inherently good, it is society that corrupts him

thomas hobbes had it backwards desu

I always imagine Jehovah in the Old Testament like an ascendant god like in the Dominions game fighting with other national and ethnic deities for control of the global pantheon, and since he's a monotheistic deity, that means absolute control over the pantheon with no others. New Testament is after he's consolidated his power and now can actually show people the right way to live instead of worry over fighting everything.

He cannot be because an omniscient god refutes the notion of free will.

The last time I broached this subject it broke quite a few anons brains so let me put it simply.

To be omniscient is to have total knowledge. Christians or (insert whatever monotheistic religion that makes the same claims) argue that Their Omniscient god is also the creator of all things.

Now what this does it create a closed system. Since god has total knowledge of all things and all states past present and future and also was the originator of all known states the notion of free will is false.

It also eliminates the premise of any oppositional force. You can't fight a system when you have no control.

All creation and all action is manifest through gods will alone if he is truly omniscient.

being omniscient doesnt meant you can see through time, hat exists at a futre time does not exist and is not real, so does not fall under "everything"

>Now what this does it create a closed system. Since god has total knowledge of all things and all states past present and future and also was the originator of all known states the notion of free will is false.
No. God knows the decision you'll make. How does another person's knowledge. not make you make the decision yours.

He's also omniscient and omnipresent which means he's in all things including my shit and jizz. So who wants to partake in the jizz of Christ and the holy scat?

>this image
>he actually thinks its clever
yeah, lets just ignore all the full blown corruption, evil and cruelty in the world.

Especially in atheist societies which have ruthlessly used slaves and "population control" (scripted genocide) on their own populace.

But yeah, clearly there is nothing to seek salavation from.
cool image, yeah brrrroooo, so witty

If the decision is already known then choice is an illusion because you will always make that choice.
The information always existed and was predetermined. Predetermination is not free will.

>Dominions

My nigga. I got in a huge email game with some friends and raped their shit with the race that has the super cavalry.

t. Epicurus plagiarist

I know you're going to sin in the future. My knowledge of this doesn't make you sin.

I created you knowing you would sin in the future and violate my covenants. Before I breathed life into you I had already cast you into flame.

kek the picture is right you tard.

And the old testament is full of genocide so fuck off with that shit.

That wasn't a refutation of what the picture said.

So god is the universe? The universe is then also omnipotent and omniscient and thus cannot exist

>God creates our laws. The laws of The Universe are his will. He doesn't abide by the conventional rules that we understand.

But in our universe such a thing could not exist because of the logical contradiction. If he did in fact have the power of changing physical laws but could also see into the future then the contradiction arises that he could not change the future despite all his power and such a being may not exist.

>God has intervened at times

So before he intervened did he know what would happen? If he did then did could he have changed what was going to happen? Wouldn't that then mean that he wasn't in fact omniscient at that moment before because what he saw happening in the future would no longer happen?

But has he intervened ever? Wasn't Jesus' resurrection intervention in the universe? Didn't he speak to Moses several times?

So god doesn't know what will happen tomorrow? How about his plan for all of us?

Dis da how Jeezas Krais was born. He ma Mayri was sopoas to get marid to Joazef, but bifoa dey cud get marid, di Hoali Spirit mek her get pregnant. Now Joazef weh Mayri mi fi marid tu, da-mi wahn righteous man, and he neva wanna shaym Mayri in fronta evribadi, so he make up ih main fi lef ahn without nobadi know.

this is easily answered

just one possible answer is: think N dimensionally

if god transcends space and time he can see the result of our future (free in 3 dimensional space) choices. But they're still free choices.

Similarly Jesus may just be the 3 dimensional section of god the father's N dimensional self.

god is dead and the left killed him

Where in the Bible does it state that our God is omniscient?

>I do not understand the mind of God
>therefore I shoehorn whatever my 100 iq points can make fit to my preconceived notions
I remember when I was 12.

>How is god both omniscient and omnipotent at the same time?

Maybe man has no free will?

Both are a paradox.

Psa. 147:5

This doesn't change the standing contradiction that he can somehow both see what will happen tomorrow and also change what will happen tomorrow. I don't need to go into the Nth dimension to prove that one plus one doesn't equal five because that's simply incorrect in every dimension of our universe

Man indeed has Free Will & it is evident in the fact that God created the 10 Commandments that every man ought to follow.

I'm really only using brutally simple logic. If all given states are known than choice is an illusion.

Xd still can't believe actual intelligent people can fucking eat this shit up like a fat kid on chocolate cake.

Fuck life man xd

Psalms 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.

If anything, this hints towards omnipotence and not omniscience. How did you arrive to the conclusion that the stated passage entails omniscience?

I hope that someday you find God my friend.

This.

Contrariananon itt is merely tossing around word salad because God doesn't like it when he touches himself at night. It keeps him from talking to girls by robbing his drive and sapping his courage while making him feel shame and guilt.

This is why you're a NEET, my dude.

>his understanding has no limit.

That seems to suggest he understands all including that which will happen tomorrow. Even with our basic understanding of the universe we can predict with reasonable certainty the orbits of certain planets, the weather etc so a god with limitless understanding would surely be able to predict all, especially given the fact he created it.

Get the fuck away from me with your 'god' fuckboi. I love crack, i'm not telling you 'may you find a good dealer one day' because that shit is fucked up.

Stay with yourself you dumb ignorant piece of shit.

I'll let the quads do the talking

Let me end this
>A the universe has always exist.
>B the universe was created.

If you use causality to solve either, you invalidate both claims. Simply put. God = infinite and beyond Us = unable to understand with finite knowledge.

Jesus answers all these questions Himself, and that's the truth.
Don't be stubborn, if you really want to know the answers ask Him.

>“Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seeds. 4As he scattered them across his field, some seeds fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate them. 5Other seeds fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seeds sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. 6But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died. 7Other seeds fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants. 8Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted! 9Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”

Jesus spoonfeeds us the explanation in the following paragraphs, just in case you can't see the beauty in the simplicity of His message. It's pretty much the /thread to this thread and the start of another, brother.

biblehub.com/nlt/matthew/13.htm

read more Aristotle newblet.

Man, Christians are truly the gold medalists of mental gymnastics. Their "explanations" are more retarded and contradictory to one another than even some of the worst liberal beliefs.

...

I worked with and had a part time pastor and zealot live two floors under me for two years so I understand the parables well.

When you speak to him I see it as speaking to ones ego. I can only state this with certainty because I have been fortunate enough to experience ego death a number of times. It was a gift and I saw more than I can describe. I can only say that I feel man puts limits on his spirituality with his gods and there is so much more.

I don't know what created the universe but it was most likely a physical cause. Neither of us have ever seen or conducted experiments on nothing but I see no reason why something couldn't come from nothing.

But I know that it couldn't have been created by a being who in himself is a logical contradiction.

How could he be omnipotent if he wasn't also omniscient? I don't see any conflict.

The better question I believe is how can Original Sin exist if man is supposed to have free will. Free will implies the ability to choose your fate, whereas the concept of Original Sin takes away that freedom by forcing man to follow a certain path under threat of eternal damnation. It's like holding a knife up to a guy's throat and telling him that he can do whatever he likes, but if he doesn't give you his wallet you'll cut his gullet.

>I tripped hard on dmt and now I'm my own god

Yeah. This is how the Babylonians lived, and I ask you where are they now?

The fact that Christendom rose out of feudal Europe, to a position of world domination pretty much invalidates any and all pagan beliefs, my dude. At least in my opinion. It's divine providence.

Is it only a coincidence that the rise of degeneracy in the 60s has led to the decline of Christian America and soon the fall of our empire, despite our progress in the sciences?

Man's reach exceeds his grasp.
It is the lack of a real relationship with Christ Jesus that leads to our exploitation of technology for weapons of mass murder, rather than combating the evil in this world... we propagate it.

you're implying that preventing bad things from happening is a display of good will

in truth, it is often better to let people conclude their own struggles. if you don't, you rob of them of a chance to strengthen themselves

If god is omniscient he can see what will happen tomorrow. If god is omnipotent he can change what will happen tomorrow. If he changes what will happen tomorrow he would have not been omniscient at that point before as what he saw happen is no longer true.

Not my own god, never had faith to begin with. I recall being a child and being told of things and going to Sunday school for awhile but it never registered at all.

I however grew to know that faith and spirituality are not always inclusive or mutual. I gained a sense of not being apart of things but part of things and free in my utter insignificance.

You don't really trip on DMT. Even when I had it with a maoi inhibitor. You literally die and have to let go of your will and ego in order to achieve a true breakthrough. I had descended into a dimly lit room and was shown many visions that only made my spiritual connections more real.

It's not fun and it's not a trip. It's an experience that touches what helped forge our spirituality as beings.

If god is omnipotent, can he create an object even he can't move?

If yes, he's not omnipotent.
If no, he's not omnipotent.

god is a metaphor for the entire universe (the functioning totality of everything)

knows everything because it is everything

all powerful because it does all

If God doesn't exist, there is objectively no such thing as evil. If God does exist, evil is only separation from God, which exists because of free will and sin, and isn't obviously anything else.

Technically, I qualify as a god, and I will answer your question to the best of my abilities. youtu.be/g1NfPLFv71U
A god can be both omnscient and omnipotent because we can do anything, therefore, we can see the future. Despite being able to see the future, we still have free will, as gods we are, and are unable to determine, from our ability to see the future, what we, as gods, will do, because that would mean we could not have free will.
This being said, everything I have said so far is complete bullshit and you should not believe a word of it.

>why must x abide by logic or physical laws
Because otherwise god is a square circle, which is not possible, under any circumstance.
>inb4 it can happen in different universes
Proof?

>If you change what could have happened you couldn't have known it.
I imagine He would still know what would have happened.

>under any circumstance.
It isn't possible, via induction, in our world, by definition.
You don't get to make rules like that. You can't say those things even exist in all possible worlds.