>statists smugly claim that anarcho-captialism is impossible because without the government migrants will come and fuck everything up
>while the government imports millions of migrants TO fuck things up and will arrest you if you do anything about it
When will you give up the government meme and become an adult?
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Statists didn't push for mass immigration, capitalists did.
Op you are fucking autistic
But mass immigration started when corporations realized they could import cheap labour and under cut the white man.
'Anarcho'-Capitalism is an oxymoron. I think the idea you ascribe to is neo-feudalism.
how does mass immigration append if everything is privatised?
what is the part of it that is oxymoron?
Statism + ethnic nationalism = god tier belief system.
While it's easy to counter ancap people, this is not one of the ways. Try harder.
Fuck off with your juveline fantasies
Think you'd be better off without a government? Try some island on Polynesia
>Statists didn't push for mass immigration, capitalists did.
There's one and only one reason that capitalists would want immigration, and that's if the state interfered with the free market and deliberately made labour more expensive than it really is, causing them to look for solutions else where.
Capitalism cannot be anarchistic. Anarchism from its inception as ideology was about removing all forms of corrosive authority from social and economic spheres. Anarchists want to abolish hierarchy and the capitalism mode of production creates hierarchy between the property owing class and the rest of us, and maintains the boss/worker arrangement. Anarchists want to remove the state because it is just another institution which creates and maintains authoritarian hierarchies, capitalism being the main one.
NOBODY IS A STATIST YOU FUCKING RETARDS WHEN WILL YOU LEARN
>still can't match what happens when a bad person gets ahold of legal backing in statism
Obviously
EITHER WAY Anarcho Capitalism is a flawed ideology simple as that. The only way you can gain a high trust society is to enforce morals via the state for a long time until the nation is ready to abolish the state. And even then it might not be a good idea.
Are you being retarded on porpoise?
Who is going to protect your property from an organised gang of thugs? You have to sleep sometime. Grow up kid.
voluntary hierarchy =/= forced hierarchy
you cant have an authoritarian hierarchies if peoples can leave it any day they want
do you believe that the state is the only one able to give certain sevices? if yes you are a statist
>voluntary hierarchy =/= forced hierarchy
>implying there's a practical difference
Your autism is showing, french fry.
^
>who will protect kings property from bigger king?
>implying coalition doesnt exist
are you fucking retarded? anarchy =/= chaos
>Soviet Union is every AnCap's nightmare
>if it declared it was now Soviet Union Inc. and that Russia was its private property literally everything it does is now okay for AnCaps
>yfw AnCap arguments are literally entirely semantics
ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS CURRENT
ANARCHO CAPITALISM IS A RIGHT WING
DEATH SQUAD SUBJECT
...
why would i work in that corporation? he will just become bankrupt with such policies
Private property ownership backed by coercion isn't voluntary.
You are living on their property, a condition of which is abiding by their rules. If you don't abide by their rules then you are trespassing and immediate lethal force is justified to protect their property.
I find it so hilarious that an Anarcho-Capitalist is calling others retarded.
Also, it's funny how you Anarcho-Capitalists give out to the Alt-Right for calling others 'cucks', but then you'll turn around and call people 'Statists'.
Have some of my not-so-fresh Anarcho-Capitalist OC.
>self-ownership is coercive
>why would i work in that corporation? he will just become bankrupt with such policies
Yes, you'll "choose" to work with them. You'll have many "choices" available to you with a gun to your head.
OP, you fell for the Perfect Competition inside a democracy/anarchy meme, go read Hoppe.
why dont you own your own property?
Genuinely. Autistic.
This is hilarious.
Depends how you define anarchism exactly. But the simple fact is that you can have rules (just not rulers) that are agreed upon through voluntarism, including what compensation is agreed upon for those rules are broken, this is the basis for a contract.
You agree on some 3rd party who is independent who you both either pay or have insurance with and agree that they arbitrate on the rules should there be dispute over who broke them. Then if the dispute isnt resolved voluntarily force can be used by the dispute resolution agency.
Of course you have a large market full of different DROs who all solve problems in whatever way they see fit, if they're crap then they dont make any money if they're honerable and reasonable and transparent then they get lots of business.
The free market can provide decent secure transactions completely outside government, just look at something like Escrow or ebay, completely run based on seller and arbiter reputation.
>muh tradition
Because all wealth produced on the land owned by Soviet Union Inc is the property of the corporation. As per the voluntary agreement.
Claiming ownership of property and using coercion to main that ownership is coercive.
But if this were true, you could leave Soviet Union Inc. if you wanted to, so it would be okay. Communism is fine for other people to do, as long as it's all voluntary and they can't force it on other people.
what? are you for slavery? after all i protect my own property(called body) with coercion
for an ancap any private property is an extension of their body
they had a wall to force peoples to be in it, that slavery, not volunaty
Moral of the story: Sign a contract before going on a boat voyage. This doesn't debunk libertarianism.
And what happened to slaves or serfs that disagreed to serve?
But if they want to leave then they are trespassing. They can now be justifiably imprisoned or killed. Or do you not support people's right to protect their property?
How will you prevent chaos without hierarchy?
Checkmate, Anarchists.
>Ancap
>Against slavery
lmao
And who enforces the contract on the boat in the comic?
i said voluntary hierarchy
No, anyone who opposes anarcho capitalism is helicopter bait
I'm using a hypothetical scenario. The USSR could do everything exactly the same, but if they declared themselves to be a corporation and Russia to be their property, then they would be a ok by libertarian standards. If you want to leave then you are free to do so, but you are no trespassing on the corporation's property and can be punished.
Daily reminder that Communism was also supposed to be an Anarchistic system. And, well, we all know how that turned out.
What makes you think your Utopian ideology will be any different?
ancap believe in self-ownership and private property right, the reason they are anarchist is because they hate that the state is enslaving them
Good point, leaf. It's almost entirely semantics. The meme that you'll be able to sue the corporate government is hilarious when you consider what people get away with today. Let's just remove all oversight and transparency and then the justice system will be fair.
declaring to own russia by killing the rightfull owner doesnt legitimise their ownership over it
Capitalism without taxes is shit.
Who /marketsocialist/ here?
Just gonna leave this here and leave the thread
statism is objectively superior if you remove the concept of humans from the mix
but due to the concept of being human it is guaranteed to always be riddled by corruption and imperfection, making it by far the worst system of governance
...
"Why are people who beg the government to take control over every aspect of their lives so retarded?"
Is that your question?
But it's still hierarchy. And how will you get basic necessities without submitting to that hierarchy?
You cannot gain requirements like food unless you use a private business to purchase the food.
It's only 'voluntary' until you're near starvation or need protection from thugs by the police, which will inevitably happen because people WILL form gangs to steal your shit without hierarchy.
Furthermore, Capitalism is an inherently hierarchical system, albeit a 'fluid' hierarchy.
Then what does? Private property is a spook senpai. It's an arbitrary claim enforced by coercion.
Germany is a social market economy by constitution.
Oh shit I forgot about this thread.
You mean Neo-Liberals. In a free market capitalists would just take their factories to chinky land and export if wanted cheap workers.
self-governance is what ancap is avocating for
>not supporting a mixed market socialist/syndicalist system
>while the government imports
Sorry, but they seemed to get here pretty well on their own.
Not an argument.
Governance over property. Which is great for people who have property, but those who don't are basically slaves.
>ozone depletion with no oil subsidy
this is why you were born in a meme country
its not the hierarchy that is the problem, its to be forced in that hierarchy that is the problem
>It's only 'voluntary' until you're near starvation
pic related
>because people WILL form gangs to steal your shit without hierarchy.
source?
>Capitalism without a state to protect property rights and promote commerce
hmm
No, there are actually encouraged by the gibs and the messed up asylum system to come here. If they actually had to work and integrate they wouldn't come here.
Ever read about the history of Europe? Why kingdoms were formed in the first place? People paid taxes for protection against barbarians.
Taking advantage of poverty is neither coercive nor oppressive, but if you refuse to acknowledge that the environment places restrictions on freedom then you are retarded. If you value freedom as an inherent good then you have to address both artificially created and environmental restrictions on freedom, especially if those environmental restrictions can be easily alleviated.
How can you source something for a system that has never existed? It's just common sense.
If people suddenly see that there are no repercussions for what they do they will take the opportunity.
I imagine the Anarcho-Capitalist society would be like the movie 'The Warriors'.
/thread
Quads confirm it.
Please show me one example of "anarchocapitalism" functioning anywhere.
The best example that comes to mind is the pre-industrial "laissez-faire" system which caused monopolies and bank runs until it became more regulated- but that system came and went.
Please refer to one country that -currently- uses your system. Somalia is the best example that comes to mind- why don't you go live there?
my property is my body, my body is governed by my brain
my landed property is a property that i brough with the labor produced by my body and so is an extension of my body
>but those who don't are basically slaves.
there would be millions of landowner, you would have the choice for a good landlord
>its not the hierarchy that is the problem, its to be forced in that hierarchy that is the problem
But you're forced into it anyway! All you've done with Anarcho-Capitalism is transfer control from the government to private enterprise. There's no real difference, except that these private companies now control your life for profit.
>you would have the choice for a good landlord
Holy fuck are you retarded.
Why do you think slavery existed, then? Why didn't all the slaves just go to better landlord?
as if we dont know that nature dont exist, there will obviously be some darwinism
...
They just aren't redpilled.
The world started off with anarchy, then headed towards anarcho-capitalist, then towards statism.
The entire point of Ancap is for people to try out whatever they want and that is exactly what happened. Here we are.
We're living in a world thats full of socialists and capitalists with very levels of statism.
This is the entire point of ancap.
Why on Earth would we revert back to it? The smug Ancap faggots, not all of them just the smug ones, each (((current year))) fan group seems to be identified by the smug assholes (atheists, lolbertarians, and ancapfags.
You guys watch some shitty youtube videos and I'm pretty sure most of you are come from Bolymeux, I'm sure he would be disappointed in you fags just like Dawkins is dissapointed in those faggot neckbeard fedoras.
Anyway. We are still technically in a state of Ancap, as in forms of government are being tested right before your eyes right now.
Also, Mind you. Humans are living arguably the best lives they have ever lived in human history relative to the past under past forms of Socio-economic structures.
Anyway, fuck you Ancap fags. When you get bored of this meme, you'll move onto the next current year somewhat obscure/edgy talking point.
CyborgniggerlovercuckoldMgtowzoophiliacatheismrobots.
every peoples is their own enterprise that produce a good called labor, at least these private property will abide to the same natural law and not like right now where the governement is above the law
And the corporations wouldn't?
>my property is my body, my body is governed by my brain
>my landed property is a property that i brough with the labor produced by my body and so is an extension of my body
>taking natural rights seriously
Let's break this down. The acquisition of property can only be done in two ways, since nobody is born owning anything. Either it was given to you (as a gift or in exchange for something, money, labour, etc) or you laid an arbitrary claim to it. If you laid an arbitrary claim, then your claim has no legitimacy, you have simply laid claim and are using force to maintain it. If the property was given to you, then we arrive at the same dilemma. Either this person was given that property, or it was arbitrarily claimed. If they were given the property, then we again, arrive at the same dilemma. This continues ad infenitum, with no point of genesis other than an arbitrary claim on property enforced by coercion.
The government isn't about the law, juveline retard. Read about the division of power in your own fucking country.
>Why do you think slavery existed, then?
because they didnt owned their own body
> Why didn't all the slaves just go to better landlord?
because they would have been killed/brought back if they fleed their masters
Who's gonna enforce that contracts are respected if no State exist? Who's gonna prevent violent crimes from being committed against non property owners? Who's going to stop food hoarders during famines?
>because they would have been killed/brought back if they fleed their masters
Right. And that's what could and would happen to your freedom without intervention.
The NAP fairy, of course!
How do you know this? How do you know your society won't turn out like Communism did?
As I stated already, Communism was also originally supposed to be Anarchistic.
Yes but you fail to acknowledge how freedom is restricted by the environment, or that environments that restrict freedom can be artificially created by capitalism and ownership of private property. Either you are concerned with preserving freedom or you are concerned with preserving property, because often the two are mutually exclusive. If you are more concerned with property than freedom then fine, but don't you dare call yourself a libertarian.
>muh division of power
>implying they cant be brought
such naivety
i'm sure you even believe that the politicians are the population servant
...
Good thing private actors would never follow their drive for profit.
Also, you're fucking spoiled living in Europe. If you think you're living under corruption and opression, try Russia for a week.
there were intervention by britain to protect poland in WW2, that doesnt mean britain is the governement of poland
who will have contract with someone if that someone doesnt respect contract? just call for an embargo
russia is better that belgium, at least they are reactionary and not a socialist shithole
That doesn't fix the problem, nor it punishes the perpetrator, if he's part of a trust.
Do we really need to start spamming AnCap memes again?
he will starve is no one sell goods with him, and he will be unable to leave his property if the owner of the road doesnt let him on his road
>meme ideology
Kill yourself pls
>The claim that taxation is a form of slavery is derived from the principle of self ownership.
If you own yourself, then you own the fruits of your labour. Any claim on the fruits of your labour is a claim on the ownership of you - and that is slavery by definition.
a quote by someone else
...
Fuck off edgetard. Minarchism is the healthy balance which allows for the enforcement of contracts and laws without the government being too retarded and stealing too much money
kek
many ancap want minarchy first and taking the last step into ancap
please show me an example of being actually tried. Somalia does not have no government jut many governments fighting which is the opposite of an ancap society
This Nigga.
Pretty much this, Humanity need government without it we turn into niggers.
I'm not sure why statists are stupid, but anarchism isn't the solution, Mohammad. A better idea would be:
Minarchism + ethno-nationalism = God-teir system
Basically ancap completely relies on the premise that no one is brutal and ambitious enough to just destroy anyone who stands in his way and become a local warlord/dictator/feudalist style king. The whole system proposal is ripe for pillage, corruption, constant localised war, exploitation and slavery
This.
If nobody calls themselves a statist then adressing someone as a statist is vain and useless to your cause.
Then he'll go somewhere else where nobody knows him and do the same things.
Conmen like this already exist in today's society. They'd be thriving in an ancap paradise, where only the good will of the people (pshhhh) ensure that everything works.
Bigger king??? You mean bigger country. And only a military will. And if they dont, so be it. Looks like only one of ours works sometimes, and the other has NEVER worked.
its not like peoples would gang up on that warlord to remove the threat or anything
Winrar
and nobody call themselve a misandrist even if they are
a call any socialist a commie if i want
And if they fail? If he gains control of key resources? If he has goons/private army? The community would always be able to fight these guys off right because they're the good guys?
i just make the analogy of property to country since anarchism is just the same as the statut-quo between country but just on the individual level
well poland fail to protect himself from the warlord called USSR
nothing is perfect... well you could use nuke to remove that warlord :^)
What the fuck are you trying to say?
Refugee crisis is a symptom of a much bigger problem one which has been largely caused by structural violence on a global scale fueled by the endless need for quick profits and growth by the multinationals. Politicians are simply waging meaningless wars for them just to get access to cheap resources and whatever beneficial contracts and deals.
Who's got the nukes? The warlord in the next county that forces the surrounding communities to donate all their loli daughters to him as tribute otherwise he nukes them?
its not because someone doesnt call himself by a certain name (statist, misandrist, collectivist,ect..) that that name definition doesnt fit them
Not the same. 100 weak men and 10 strong is no fair fight. But in the world of guns, only numbers matter. You cant defend a home by yourself, and nobody will help you out of good will. I personally believe governments only job is to protect its people from violence. Domestic and abroad.
he would be nuked back, i doubt he own all the nuke
Its just retarded to say that statists belive this or that because a statist is EVERYONE ELSE
some peoples will help you out of good will because they want other peoples to help them if they had a problem
it depend of the culture
dont expect a chinese to help you, but you could expect a christian to help you
>either abide by my hierarchy or starve to death
>hey man you agreed to it voluntarily you can't complain
So ancaps don't mind that the most brutal, psychopath warlords that gain power can get a hold of nukes?
The term has been appropriated. Hierarchy is non-negotiable.
well myself i prefer using communist than statist for most thing because monarchy wouldnt be that bad, ancap would just be better
Sadly christians are dying. And islam, the religion of war rape and destruction, is growing by the minute. Your "outer heaven" like society will never exist on this gay earth
>So ancaps don't mind that the most brutal, psychopath warlords that gain power can get a hold of nukes?
do you mind that the USSR had nuke? if you mind, could you do something about it(beside waiting)?
islam would be considered as a dengerous as the communist and so would be premptively removed
> christians are dying
if you control the education of your children(no public school) christianism can come back, especially since atheist doesnt reproduce
Im doing my part. I dont belive in god but im faking it and raising my son to be an estute christian man.
Nations have at least some controls and fail safes to stop a madman firing all his nukes everywhere. Ancap localised warlords we have absolutely no idea what system if any there is to stop one going berserk and launching nukes at all his neighbours.
actually thats my only problem with ancap
but even right now northkorean do have nuke, that the same analogy to right now
Those are only the deontologists who use the term "statist" in the same way as leftists use the term "racist".
They can follow their drive for profit. Without a state for them to bribe to inhibit competition using regulation, they will be forced to produce efficiently by the free market.
Private companies don't control your life in a free market. You can choose to buy a different product if the price is too high above the equilibrium, as competitors will enter the market. Big bad corporations are the biggest fans of governments seeking to regulate them.
Bump
Here is the way I see it: The government is an illusion. People in the government are the same species as you and I. They aren't necessarily more intelligent than we are, they're not necessarily the best leaders, and there's nothing that actually legitimizes their authority they claim over people.
However, just because their authority is something they made up, and people just go along with it, does not mean there's absolutely no legitimacy to the concept of government whatsoever. Think about all the base level things you need, and all the things you want. People need / want food, water, weapons, sex, power over others, physical security, entertainment, etc. The government is simply a lot of people coming together, to provide these things for one another. It's really just a mob, and they have ways of getting people to go along with their system.
For example, they will tell people that they're all about securing your freedom, and protecting your rights. They'll tell you that they'll take money from others and redistribute it to you, and promise you welfare and other free things. They try to control the media, and they get on TV and wear suits and try to make it look as legitimate as possible.
Of course, you can question the morality of the concept of government, which is really just a gang or a mob, but you can't deny its practicality or its appeal to some people. You can assert that everybody should just see themselves as individuals, and that sort of thought has strong appeal to some people - But that idea doesn't appeal to everybody, and it won't stop groups from forming.
As long these group doesn't hold absolute power above others and land owners can leave that group any day they want, im ok with that
I'm ok with a confederation of individual, just not a fédération
DROs.