If you can't give a thoughtful intellectual analysis/criticism of Karl Marx's Labor Theory of Value...

I am so sick of explaining this. You don't even need to test it physically since the entire argument can be dismissed with a modicum of theoretical testing.

The labour theory of value essentially states that labour has intrinsic value and that the value of a product or output is determined by the amount of labour that goes into it.

The first problem is how you qualify or quantify this labour: is stacking shelves (physically harder) more valuable than scientific inquiry (mentally harder).

If you argue that the scientific inquiry has more value for society as a whole then you are making an admission that it is the product of the labour that has value and is not intrinsic to the labour itself.

If you argue that the stacking shelves is more valuable because it requires more physical effort, then we can go to the "digging a hole and filling it back in argument". If you dig a hole and immediately fill it back in, you have created nothing and benefited nobody, but by the argument that value is intrinsic to labour you have created extraordinary amounts of value through your extremely arduous and back breaking efforts. So which is it.

In reality it is product and outcome that creates value and value is determined by those who want them the most, not some arbitrary standard dreamt up by some work shy ideas guy who was born of wealthy parents, wasted his inheritance and scrounged off of his friends who actually got real jobs and employed people.

tl;dr: The labour theory of value is simply the proof that marx was an idealistic muppet who didn't understand basic supply and demand economics.

your image macro proves you're an edgy teenager

you are communism's target audience m8

Nice. You immediately went to the Das Mudpie argument. Which Marx thoroughly debunked in his very first Capital volume.
Marx actually did write about how labor has to be useful labor.
Feels good knowing you immediately went there. Now I know you didnt even bother to read Das Capital. You probably read some libertardian source. Like a retard.

Grow the fuck up and read some books.

"I know it never works, but I hate my capitalist pig father so much I'm gonna pretend it's still relevant as a theory

translated that for you cuck

I know this theory all to well. To summarize: Marx treats capitalism as a form of immanent axiomatism, and capitalist states as models of realization (as per the technical terminology) for this axiomatic system. It's smart and well-thought, but in practice it's a pile of (((poisonous garbage))).

>The labour theory of value essentially states that labour has intrinsic value and that the value of a product or output is determined by the amount of labour that goes into it.

so explain how there's a minimum cost due to the value of labor

Why does no one understand Marx? Marx assumed that politics could be made scientific and then tried to predict a bunch of outcomes that turned out very WRONG.

Why dont you grow the fuck up and get a job?
>held several jobs
LOL

But that still proves that labour has no intrinsic value and still doesn't explain how the value is calculated or by whom. You're literally telling me that marx defeated his own theory without ever explaining how value is actually determined when the most obvious solution is for the value to be determined by the consumer (which is free market capitalism).

I support you, "political science" is a self contradictory statement.

I'm not that user but I am interested in hearing your response to what he just said.

After all, you've read the book, so if you could give a brief rebuttal I would be most grateful

Why would we continue to debate or even acknowledge something that has been so thoroughly debunked it is the equivalent of someone bringing up flat earth stupidity during a astronomy discussion.

mises.org/blog/labor-theory-value-refuted-nobody-cares-how-hard-you-work
mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited

Agreed, know your enemy.
Currently reading the Quran.

Good boy.

Getting a job made me a communist.

I was a dumbfuck liberal before, but the crushing exploitation under capitalism woke me the fuck up. We gotta get rid of the bosses, user.

Fuck off cunt Marx was a word salad retard

Marx was not a legitimate person.

others have read it before me - many believed and many tried - they all logically and with hindsight, obviously lead to authoritarian and brutally enforcing regimes.

marxism is a demonstrable failure of a system. the only person who still believes it is the person who recently read his book, propaganda and nothing else

>Thisisbait.jpeg

I work for an IT company

...Marx explained in great detail how commodities obtain value from society.

Be honest with me user, did you even bother to read Das Capital, or are you just pulling shit out of libertardian sites?

Wait here it is
"I'm not going to bother reading the source so I'm just gunna take shit from a shit site to fling around."

What a monkey. Absolutely anti intellectual degeneracy

>so explain how there's a minimum cost due to the value of labor
You can spend all day making shit sandwiches but if noone buys them that labor is worthless.

The biggest determining factor of a item or service's value is how much the consumer values it which is an entirely subjective matter.

The Internet by itself killed Marxism because it enables anybody to have their own means of production

Stalin and Mao taught me everything about communism that I have to know

thats not what was stated

try again and read the post

The internet started in the USSR

So you have found out that you are useless, talentless piece of shit?

>"I'm not going to bother reading the source so I'm just gunna take shit from a shit site to fling around."
>I don't like your source directly refuting what I'm asserting and I will only except things from my source Alone
>Calls other anti intellectual

There was a time some 80 years ago when Marxist had legitimate back and forth debates to those who opposed their ideology.
Until Mises left them unable to continue because they have yet to address his arguments 80 years later.
Marxism is the epitome of an anti intellectual ideology and as it stands today is more akin to a religion

tfw my best friend is a communist marxist
it's pretty cool having someone so out there so close to you
I bet some of you want to be friends with a serial killer or maybe be friends with a crazy person or just something fetishy like having an autistic gf. this sort of feels like that.

Only if all you produce is shitposts and memes, senpai.

Communism is a force recognised by all major powers

>1848

literally lies in the first paragraph

>held several jobs

Sure, kinda like Bernard Sanders, writing rape stories for 50 bucks a piece?

You're being an idiot though. Its like when a utilitarian says "Maximization of pleasure is the highest Good", and then when you point out experiments like the "Give everyone pleasure drugs" idea, they say

"No, no, there are various degrees of pleasures, separated by something other then quality. Its better to be a Socrates unsatisfied then a pig satisfied"

That's a reasonable position, but it utterly trashes the original theory, the same way that introducing the clause "useful" destroys the labor theory of value.

If you're subjecting the LTV to another standard of value, then you're not upholding the LTV. The simple reality is that economic value is determined by supply and demand, and that doing so is the most efficient way of resource allocation we know of.

The primary problem command economies have is surpluses and shortages brought about by poor decision-making and lack of information on the wants and needs of the citizenry. Such calculations are made infinitely easier by the use of price in a capitalist context.

>Marx explained in great detail how commodities...
So he still hasn't proven that labour has intrinsic value. Good job fuck nut. And commodities don't gain value from society, it should be society that gains value from commodities. A hammer doesn't gain more value as it's used, it's just a worn hammer; society gains more value the more the hammer is used and that still proves that the value in any labour is in the output, not the input.

>If you haven't read the entirety of Mein Kampf you have no place comparing anyone to Hitler

Capitalism requires cheap third world labour so that it can make profits importing 3rd worlders to work for half the pay and twice the hours
Capitalists love cheap 3rd world migration

I sympathize with the ideas of socialism, but empirical evidence has clearly proven capitalism with government regulation + democracy to be far, far more successful.

South Korea vs North Korea
West Germany vs East Germany
Modern mixed-type China vs China under Mao

how can capitalism even be tried? its just a normal order that developed naturally, not doctrine

Dude did you even read the source you posted?? Lmao
Or did you just google "mises, labor theory of value" be honest

Because
1. The first link doesn't even mention Karl Marx or his LTV
2. He constructs a straw man, unrelated to the LTV and then proclaims victory when he demolishes his own straw man. Marx didnt write about how hard workers should be paid more.

Come on user. Youre only proving me right with your gross anti intellectual dogma. I didnt even know Mises.org was still around considering their funding cuts

Twilight also has thousand pages. It makes it no less for the edgy teens.

Marx is on par with the guy on Instagram in his brand new car his dad bought him complaining about poor people, and then says
>why don't they just buy more money

Because the labourer demands payment and the employer decides what that labour is worth based on the output of that labour.

m8 for fuck's sake

YOU have the read source

I don't give a fuck about the other user. Because YOU have read the source

So why don't you fucking repute what he's saying with the essential reading from the fucking source that you've read cover to fucking cover or stop wasting our time you fucking cunt

You'd have to be pretty stupid to think a fantast novel is comparable to a concrete scientific work of social and economic analysis.

Then again I am on Cred Forums
Safe space for anti intellectual braindead trump supporters

Marx doesn't deserve a thoughtful intellectual analysis/criticism. He is literally babby's first political and economic theorist.

Lol even scholars on Marx admits his litterature is full of faults, he doesnt even begin to describe what a communistic, socialistic society would or should be like in detail. Maybe if he did, his ideology wouldnt have murdered millions

youtube.com/watch?v=PVgg5ou4wPo

Except he literally did. Marx's entire ideology rests on the premise that workers aren't receiving what they should from their labor, so they should claim the means of production for themselves so they have ALL the fruits of their labor, and the 'parasitic' management capital-owning class is overthrown.

In a capitalist system, the worth of labor is the same as what people are willing to pay for it, so workers are by definition being paid what they're worth.

Capitalism is literally people leveraging their advantages for personal gain, it's literally the default state of a human being if not all life in general.

>that pic
If you still believe all of that gay and outdated tabula rasa shit you should kill yourself.
Epigenetics is being proven right more and more often.
I wonder how growing up isolated in greatly varying conditions and enviroments for thousands of years could be expressed in human genetics?
Really makes you think.

>You'd have to be pretty stupid to think a fantast novel is comparable to a concrete scientific work of social and economic analysis.

What? Twilight is not a concrete scientific work of social and economic analysis.

>claims to have become a communist through working
>sells his productivity to the highest bidder like a kike

Actually you're thinking of commerce. Capitalism is just an advanced stage of commerce.

There are more primitive economies [feudalism, mercantilism, etc] that are not capitalism.

kek, are you the guy from the redpilled books thread yesterday

fuck off google skype

Go dig a hole and fill it back in. Do this for five hours. Are you telling me that this was worth the labor you put into it?

It isn't. You didn't add any value, though you labored for five hours.

We can infer then that there are more and less valuable uses for labor, and the labor theory of value falls apart.

The majority of those against communism doesn't even know what communism is

>doesn't
opinion discarded

Marx is full of shit and anybody honoring him with the term "intellectual" is a moron - can you take a hint op?

Everybody who is against communism doesn't know what communism is. Communism is achieved when everybody on Earth properly and completely understands what the Idea of communism is.

See

>feudalism, mercantilism
I get what you are saying, but those are simply economic and social frameworks in which individuals operate, they simply limit the way people can leverage their advantages. Even in cave man times, having the bigger club was an advantage (the capital) that could be leveraged to gain more... territory, females, food, whatever (the profit).

Czech brings the bants

>Das Kapital
You didn't read it either.

>Karl Marx or his LTV
Marx didn't use LTV, that's from Neoclassical economics. Also, he never came up with anything better than a market to determine the value of widgets other than despotic rule by a minority which is the history of the world right through to Bolshevism and beyond. People don't want equitable distribution, they want more and less for those they don't like. Most Economics is just pud pulling with abstractions. You can make a market - you can't make a socially balanced perspective on utility value or whatever that everyone shares and agrees with

>...and will never happen so long as greed and desire for personal advancement exist
Even marx recognised that communism was pretty much a pipe dream, something most "communists" don't seem to understand.

>conflating understanding with agreement
Yep, that's a commie.

...

>Even marx recognised that communism was pretty much a pipe dream
this. I hate the media for mentioning Cred Forums, the newfaggotry is trying my patience. hopefully they will become redpilled during their stay

>thoughtful intellectual analysis/criticism
>retards

Ironically marx would hate social liberalism as it was created to lower the value of labor.

WHERE'S MY SLICE?
I WANT MORE THAN EQUAL RIGHTS
I WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE, COMRADES!

How's that first month of college going for you, OP?

Marx is probably the most misunderstood historical figure of all time. He was directly against a lot of the values modern leftists hold closest. Also, Marx remains one of the most important thinkers in the modern world. There are plenty of reasons to disagree with Marx but to act like his ideas have no credibility whatsoever and to not even bother to understand them is retarded.

The point is that communism is in everybody's best interests. Today most people, event those who are exploited, have much to lose in the event of a total collapse of the economic system. They would never support revolution, but people die and so do entire cultures and civilizations..

Only madmen disagree with certain knowledge.

>everybody's best interests
THERE IT IS, THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN

I wish I was not the only person educated enough to understand the humor in a board of nazi teens arguing that labour does not have intrinsic value.

Marxist is a cuckoo and wants you to be one too
>in le communist utopia everyone will work a to do good to their abil-blahblahblah
>what? Me toil in the fields? Ho no
Some people are worth more than others, get over it.

>Some people are worth more than others
You're right, the person who refuses to work is worthless scum and will go to gulag in the communist utopia.

Communism is completely degenerate, but I can not find any flaws with Marx' analysis of capitalism. Capitalism DO have all the flaws he said it does and the effects of capitalism does have the effects he says. He even predicted how capitalism would work with more automation and more technology. And as a capitalist it is worrying because it will lead to the suffering of the poor until they notice that I am comfy as fuck

>If you can't give a thoughtful intellectual analysis/criticism
HOLD RIGHT UP.

I have your thoughtful critique right here in image form.

>scientific work
Engels wrote that x*(-1)*(-1)=xsquared. Communist math my ass.
>If you can't give a thoughtful intellectual analysis/criticism of Karl Marx's Labor Theory of Value
Easy. Enterpreneur is as important source of added value as a worker. In fact in our age of robotization workers will soon be useless, but entrepreneurs are needed more than ever. No one is exploiting proletariat because it's a consensual relationship. If workers were deserving a penny more than they worked for, they could make joint-stock company with equal share ownership any day, get credit and create their own communist factories that would drive greedy capitalists who hoard profit out of business. The fact that this doesn't happen anywhere proves workers are useless trash and get exactly as much as they deserve.

>Yes, I'm sure his many thousand page volumes and books were written solely for a 13 year old with angst.
Length =/= Quality. There are thousand page My Little Pony and Harry Potter fanfictions out there written BY angsty teens

What credibility does he have.

>grow the fuck up
>retards
Sounds like you're the one lacking the ability for intelligent discussion

>capitalist slave drivers are essential to the function of capitalism
What brilliant critique! Karl Marx will never recover.

Have sex, retard
And lose weight

Marx's arguments were all based in German dialectical philosophy. He was a student of Hegel. Marx's arguments are rigidly logical and exhaustive. Just because you disagree with someone does not mean they aren't credible or worth studying

Correction - Communism and Anglos make people poorer.

>>capitalist slave drivers are essential to the function of capitalism
Exactly, and workers are not.
>What brilliant critique! Karl Marx will never recover.
Of course he won't. The guy couldn't earn 1 dollar, much less recover from anything. Fits the description of his typical follower as well.

So op wants to be deported to siberia? I'm sure there's a cheaper way than by subjugating the world under communism.

> logical
Only if you smoke lethal amounts of weed.

You realize this is exactly how sjws argue right? There are people in this thread who will refuse to read Marx because it doesn't support their worldview just like sjws won't read classical economists because they don't support theirs.

>The point is that communism is in everybody's best interests.
I'm not everybody, so it doesn't mean shit. Even if communism benefited me, if fucking you over benefited me more, then it's in MY best interest to do so.

Marx hated marxism.

that fucking beard.
how much cum is stuck in that fucking thing?

Yea that sjw comparison breaks down midway though. Sjw's claim, much like commies, that everyone must agree to their 'scientific', 'intellectual' marxist and all in all perfect world view. So do you btw. It is not our duty to read that shitty book. It is your duty to argue and convince us of your book. Right now, you fail to make any good argument why anyone should bother with it other than the usual bullshit commies spout. Sorry, but if I hadn't read it already, i wouldn't read it too.

Don't forget that he was a thief who took out loans he never intended to repay. Then there was the time he was evicted from his home in England for not paying the rent. the sold the family beds in order to pay the butcher, dairy, grocer, etc.

I'm not saying its scientific or intellectual. I'm saying its a work that's enormously important to the modern world and having a basic understanding of it is part of being an educated person. Whether or not you agree with something that's written in a book shouldn't affect whether your willing to read it or not

Labor theory of value is not based in reality. Value is a function of utility. I could work on something that holds no value for my entire life, or my labor could reduce the value of a thing if I screw it up

>Marx's arguments are rigidly logical and exhaustive.
I can argue that we could mine the moon for cheese and solve the world's desire for cheese for millennia, I could write thesis after thesis about how this would solve the problem and even detail and demonstrate how we could get there, how we would mine it, how we would send it back, how we would distribute it and all the logistics in between in the most logical, reasoned and detailed way possible, but it all falls apart because the moon simply is not made of cheese.

As exhaustive as his works are, their value is completely diminished by the fact that his theories, understanding and philosophy were simply wrong.

Marx was a fucking bum that never qorked a day in his life then wrote a shitty book that created a cancer aids baby that almost destroyed Europe so fuck marx and all other reds the only good commie is a dead commie

All the cum is white, yet none of the DNA is. This is the paradox.

No its not. Mein kampf isn't in any way relevant to historical understanding of ww2, neither is mao's red book. It's propaganda, masquerading as science. There is no scientific value in this book, its an obscure artifact. What is interesting is the appeal to humans and the feelings of moral and intellectual superiority it somehow causes in some of us.

Here's the short story of Communism:

Communism was created by the Elites as another form of control.

It's just that simple.

Communism is Capitalism on steroids.

They mislead the idiots to believe that they are giving their wealth for the benefit of mankind to the government, but it's really the elite who steal all the money.

Only idiots who were brainwashed in a government school believe that Communism works.

The elite have a vested interest in shoving Communism down the sheep's throats so that they can steal the remaining wealth.

Shut up dickhead communism as failed every time its been tried because of simple human nature people always want more

How can you possibly say Mein Kampf or Mao's Red Book are not important? Again, just because you might disagree with it or some of the arguments don't hold in the modern context does not mean these things aren't historical relevant and worth reading

Nice meme.

Textbook strawman.

Not an argument.

The problem is that communists are enamored with anti-racism and believe in melting pot horse shit. What we have the west is demographic replacement and the people causing it, poor and rich, should be killed.

In that case you don't seem to have much taste for knowledge.

Ask yourself this:

Why do YOU advocate Communism?

Think about it.

Was it because they pushed that garbage down your throat in your government school?

Did you ever question the dogma that the professors shoved down your throat?

Ever?

You were brainwashed into believing that Communism is the solution, when in reality, the very same bourgeois created the system to manipulate the people into giving them their money by their own free will.

Jevons. Menger. Walras.

Q.E.D.

Nice meme.

edward bellamy utopian is better marxism fucking sucks.

What about Tito's Yugoslavia, Israeli kibbutzim, the Paris Commune, and Makhno's Ukraine?

Has there ever been a successful communist nation?

Yes that's largely true. He focused on critiquing capitalism rather than prophesizing socialism.

...

You're thinking of trade/commerce. This is literally Econ 101.

Why does he deserve a thoughtful response?
Why does he deserve anything more than contempt and ridicule?

His theories have been heavily criticized and tweaked by Socialists after him, so his own words are already flawed in the eyes of his smartest followers.

He is one of the most contemptible men to have ever existed and in no way a role model. He has caused untold chaos in the world and his theories don't deserve anymore attention. He was relevant 100 years ago, but as every day goes by he loses more and more relevance, his writings aren't timeless and the sooner people discard them the sooner we can finally move on and stop the regression society has been experiencing.

You haven't read Das Kapital.

Not an argument.

Humans are severely flawed beings.

Is that good enough?

That's not his theory though.

It's pretty much irrelevant because according to the marxist ideology, it will be the workers, not the petite burgeoise like himself that would make the revolution.

Nice straw man.

All three of them were propaganda.yes, you may gain some insight into the minds of a couple of radicals, but far more important are numbers: people killed for this shit ideology, lives ruined, property stolen and nations held back in their developement. The capital is only worth as a source in this context. To claim this book is key to understand the barbarism is a parody of a history class.

>the point
>
>
>your head

Teens dont understand Marx, most collegefags dont too.

Not an argument.

Sure.

It is objectively verifiable that the value ova product is based on what people will pay for it, not how much labour went into it.

>but but but
Which is worth more, a pile of gravel crushed by men with solid-gold sledgehammers, or a pile of identical gravel crushed by a machine?

The answer is neither, both are worth he same, because the labour theory of value is wrong.

NEXT.

>If you can't give a thoughtful intellectual analysis/criticism of Karl Marx's Labor Theory of Value, then you have no right to criticize or even attempt to explain his ideas.
Labor does not create value. If 100 workers produced 1 McDonalds hamburger in an hour, that hamburger is not worth more than one of 100 hamburgers 1 worker made in an hour. The value of the 1 worker is 10,000 more than each of the 100.

Yugoslavia is the reason i'm sitting in switzerland now. It fractured the balkans along ethnic lines and made it a third world region. Wtf. Is this meme about yoloswagia having been successful?

What about the, you know, sane versions of communism? Look at Israeli kibbutzim or Tito's Yugoslavia.

I have tried to read his books but there was no way I could get through those massive, unreadable steaming piles of horse shit. The ramblings of Karl Marx are not worthy of intellectual discussion.

>Tito's Yugoslavia
That first word makes a difference. The system of patriotism and self management shattered after the 1980s.

It's all idealistic nonsense, the man never worked a day in his life and has never experienced the real world.

The Labor Theory of Value is an assumption and a bad one at that. Don't pretend it otherwise, you fuck.

Marx would argument that there are the labor of the men that designed the machines too.

A better comparation would be between 10 pounds of aluminum with the work of the miners and the workers in the metal industry and 10 pounds of raw gold

The gold would be more valuable, despite the aluminum need more labor to be made

If you couldnt read it, then you should not give a opinion

> Tito's Yugoslavia

Definitely a Communists paradise, basically a government of Unionists. It lacked meritocracy and it eroded the fabric of the underlying cultures, you know with the whole spying on your neighbor thing?

I don't want to be in the retarded debate between peoples arguing with memes instead of reading books.

I just want to thank you user. I mock frequently americans for their lack of history or political knowleges. But you increase te level of all your nation.

You have to go back.

Nah - he tore the wounds open first when he started to resettle people and told them there is no god - except the muslims, they could keep their way of life intact. Don't fool yourself, tito engaged in barbarism just like the other commie dictators too.

Scientific prove that it fails yes and believing that communism can ever work is about as dumb as the edge lords that read twilight then walk round in plastic fangs

Get this creationism for economists off my board.

israeli kibbutz' are extremely minuscule in size and are gradually voluntarily converting to capitalism

Too late i'm in the eth and i got that passport. I'm stuck now. Go thank tito and the commies in the tread by hanging them from trees.

OP, how old are you?
Not that your age invalidates your opinion in any way of course

But if people are working for the man or working for themselves people will still only pay what things are worth whats so hard to understand about that i mean i dont think i can dumb it down any more for you without some paper and a box of my kids crayons m8

I have no interest in engaging in philosophical criticism.

Absolute central planning has failed, from Venezuela to Cuba to the USSR to North Korea. The only self-denominated "communist" nation, China, has only achieved success by transitioning to a mixed economy.

As long as we understand that, you have fun discussing Marx. Some of his ideas aren't all that bad, and should be used as a launching point to discuss how to reform society.

Just don't try what has already failed.

I wish bolsheviks would just hang themselves. It would save us all a lot of work on the day of the rope.

It's was just a joke. Tito had his bad and good sides.
But here, we vote enough laws to prevent criminal foreigners, even with a passeport, to do shit in our country. If you integrate, I don't have any problem to consider you as a true countryman.

Can someone who lived 2 decades under a regime promoting his writings daily, and forced to learn that shit in school, come to your place and fuck your mouth with a pick-hammer?

It is better than the product of the labor be identical to illustrate the point, but sure.

The point is that the amount of labor that goes into the product has zero impact on its actual value. From this it follows that Marx's theory of exploitation is incorrect, because if a product or service's value is not determined by the amount of labor that goes into it, but what people will pay for it, then the Worker's labor is worth EXACTLY what he is paid for it by his employer, and any profit is not stolen from him, but created by his employer as a part of the business process.

Smiths theory was better

Op = debunked

>Fallout Equestria: Project Horizons

here's a theory: fuck you commie.

once you get a fucking job and have to pay bills you'll stop spewing this bullshit out of your ass.

People often say that "communism works in theory" but i really dont understand how this is the case. communism is epistemitically flawed in so many ways that it is almost surprising how well it worked in practice

FPBP

In communism you don't have to work and there are no bills to pay

you see jimmy, Jimmy. Jim, Jim, Jimmy.
Jim, James, son, let me tell you a little about marxists, they're people that don't respect your own property and want you to give it away for nothing,son.
And you just can't go around taking away things from people and expect them to follow you.
Because that's what marxists do, marxists take away your things.

Well, I hope this talk has helped.
And, by the way, you follow a meme ideology, sorry.

There is also no food to eat, heat to warm, clothes to wear or water to wash. You are FREE of everything.

>having bills to pay will make me more open to the idea of surrendering my surplus labor

whoops

directed at

...

FPBP

>you aren't allowed to judge someone based on their legacy
Since fucking when?
People hate all my favorite artists and philosophers because of their relation to the Nazis, why can't I do the same to you?

I understand it, and disagree with it, if only for the fact that if one person takes advantage of the system and is a net drain on the economic system, they gain the advantage. Hide your rations under your bed for a month, then trade for someone else's, and boom: capitalist black market emerges. Someone will be advantaged over the general public and use this advantage further to come into power.

This is apparent in every market system from squirrels' hording, children in the playground, to financial markets.

The only proof necessary for this is the fact I would do it; it only takes a single defector to upset this pipe dream balancing act.

Perfect, keep it up, bro.

No you just can't talk about it at work.

I can. Now fuck off commie.

You need to kill yourself.

How do companies make profit is the worker is paid the value of what they're making?

"socially necessary labour"

Just because you spend a lot of time making something doesnt mean anyone else wants it

the proletariat agrees: fuck you commie