If the black death never happened, Constantinople never fell, and the Middle...

Jackson Smith
Jackson Smith

If the black death never happened, Constantinople never fell, and the Middle Ages never ended, would Europe have advanced faster than it did irl?

Joseph Garcia
Joseph Garcia

Nope, black death actually helped propel western europe out of feudalism. Im not saying other things could have led to a renaissance, but plague led to the fall of feudalism.

Colton Sanchez
Colton Sanchez

Scientific advancement basically halted from the plague to the scientific revolution in the 1500s, if the plague didnt happen this gap wouldnt happen AND Europeans wouldn't start worshipping ancient Greek gaylords because there'd be no "renaissance", Constantinople falling is a big factor in the start of the Renaissance because the last part of the Roman Empire fell and its scholars moved west and western Europeans became fascinated by these people. Protestantism probably wouldn't exist and the world might just have bee a better place if that Genghis Khan fuck didn't spread the plague all around Eurasia

Jacob Rivera
Jacob Rivera

What makes you think the Renaissance wouldnt happen if the plague didnt happen but Constantinople still fell

Ayden Bell
Ayden Bell

Wrong, wrong wrong. People had a hard on for the greeks since, uh the greeks. Constantinople did allow a diaspora of scholars, but many, if not most, didnt go far out of muslim influence, and the resulting economic disaster of europe didnt lend too much to development across all facets of society. Ghengis khan didnt spread plague you moron, it came from the east via trade on boats.

The plague forced societal restructuring in west europe that changed wealth and access to knowledge that was already existent.

Andrew Green
Andrew Green

The black death killed the least careful people. It was a eugenic event that brought Europe's average IQ up by 2-3 points.

Jason Johnson
Jason Johnson

Ive seen this theory before, the numbers arent substantive, but it does seem plausible. However the IQ increase is not enough to describe the better development of western europe.

Christopher Nguyen
Christopher Nguyen

Without the fall of Constantinople the Americas wouldnt have been discovered when it was and probably by some other than europeans. It was the fall of Constantinople that closed off the trade routes for spices to Europe from the far east mandating the discovery of a new trade route.

William Robinson
William Robinson

Bra, no. Trade still continued into europe. U cant just shut that shit off. The only difference is that the muslims got a whole lot richer since they cut the middle man out of the land route. Europe was already leaps and bounds over the rest of the world by the time the new world was discovered. It only added new wealth to the few countries that had the means to exploit it.

Nolan Martinez
Nolan Martinez

Muslims getting richer was the problem. Europe wanted the money so it needed the trade routes. So countries start funding explorers to find new trade routes and oops, the americas.

Gabriel Carter
Gabriel Carter

But europe was already richer and more developed than asia and the islamosphere. The americas only added more wealth and furthered the gap, so constantinople was not responsible for the advantages europe already had.

Nathan Miller
Nathan Miller

Europe was richer how? The true dominance of Europe started when colonialism kicked in and that was jumpstarted by the search for trade routes that circumvented the Muslim held land routes like the silk road.

Michael Smith
Michael Smith

Europe had much greater wealth due to how is was redistributed to individuals and cities after the plagues. This was attributed to allowing the free exchange of technology and commerce by the masses, not withholding it from people like the muslims, east europeans and asians did.

Matthew Ramirez
Matthew Ramirez

How would that be a reason to not want to find new trade routes especially when it would both boost your own economy while hurting the economy of the ones that had raided your homes for centuries.

Adam Scott
Adam Scott

Im not disputing the reason for setting out for new routes was to bypass islam. You are missing was my original point was.

Liam Thomas
Liam Thomas

first post worst post

0/10

Aiden Wilson
Aiden Wilson

Okay

Parker Morgan
Parker Morgan

Sorry, what was the point then?

Ayden Miller
Ayden Miller

My point was Europe developed just fine without the americas.

Colton Brown
Colton Brown

True, but the point of my original post was to refute OPs claim that if the Black Death never occured that Europe may have advanced further than it has but you cant argue that the colonialism that was spawned from the fall of Constantinople didnt slingshot the advancement of Europe ahead of its pre-bubonic tragectory.

Mason Murphy
Mason Murphy

It certainly pumped much more wealth into western europe. But our arguement is dependent on the fact that europeans were actually in a position to explore to find alternate trade routes. Also, europe pre-plague was still heavily burdened by shitty societal structure, so a pre-bubonic trajectory is a bit silly.

Owen Peterson
Owen Peterson

You're retarded. If feudalism and the black death co-existed, then the black death would have never spread because feudalistic societies were largely isolated from one another, preventing the diffusion of the disease.

Julian Cruz
Julian Cruz

The societal structure was weakened by the loss in population, but without the influx in resources the population couldve recovered and gone back to the old fuedal way. Instead the new resources created a burgeoning middle class helping weaken the nobles and royals death grip on european society.

Dylan Turner
Dylan Turner

Ghengis khan didnt spread plague you moron, it came from the east via trade on boats.
M8, from what I've seen it's either the boat trade or the incursion of Mongol armies that caused it, calling someone a retard really doesn't help your case.

Hudson Clark
Hudson Clark

It couldn't have not happened, jews poisoned the wells of Catholics.

Angel Young
Angel Young

black death was Jewish conspiracy
I mean, I've heard a lot of shit but this takes the cake.
I'm no fan of skypes but that doesn't make any sense at all.

John Cooper
John Cooper

Newton developed his theory of gravitation when? O yeah im not a moron and I actually know history. He was at home at his parents orchard. He was home from the university because the plague was killing everyone.

So if there was no plague, then newton would have been at home, and if he wasn't home staring out at the moon above the apple orchard, he would have never had that idea, and maybe no one would have even conceived it until today.

This BS about what held back science is always retarded and misguided.

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