Serious political discussion

Do you think that Barack Obama has handled the crisis in Ukraine well? If not, why? I think he did


>knew better than to start a proxy conflict right next to Russia
It would be difficult to match logistics when your opponent is right next to the region of conflict while you are not.
>knew better than to even risk war with Russia
This is a well-known song and dance: providing arms to Ukraine would allow Russia to provide arms to the rebels. Providing advisors to Ukraine would allow Russia to provide advisors to the rebels. This leads to a costly, pointless stalemate in the best case scenario or escalation in the worst case scenario. Obama prevented this outcome from occurring at all.
>decided not to extend US area of interest
The USA has generally accepted Russia's influence over its closest neighbors, using them as geographic buffers - something Russia has done for centuries. Rather than make a stand and commit ourselves to a brand new region, Obama took a softer approach.
>the sanctions are working... sort of
Russia has not collapsed, but its economy has taken a vertical nosedive. Its ability to project power and aid allies has therefore diminished. Russia's early withdrawal from Syria is a sign of this.

I do agree that his hands-off approach comes off as weak and a "betrayal of democracy," but what is he supposed to do?

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>Serious political discussion
>Cred Forums

buddy I'm sorry to say that this thread is gonna hit page 15 fast

stop trying to get your homework done on a instructional mongolian basket weaving site

>Ukraine traded nuclear weapons for protection
>rebels went from 1 light armored artillery vehicle to the army which is more powerful than 90% of europe countries in 1 year
>countless proofs of tanks/artillery/light vehicles which exist and produced only in russia
>uh-oh he did right by not escalating
Well, turns out that not only agreements with russia are not worth the paper they are written on.

a man can try
I do my homework on the mongolian throat singing board

what was he supposed to do? fight Russia?

Ukrayne should be partishioned on the dineper.
East for Russia and West for EU
Peace on earth then
No more fighting

Yes.
Alongside Ukraine, as your agreements claim.

But you went further, you now cancel sanctions which are not comfortable for you, like rd-180 engines veto etc.

Now tell me, who would ever want your "protection" after such example? And if Ukrainian authorities will go desperate enough to rebuild dirty nuclear weapons because you took their actual nukes away by false promises, who would you blame and will you have a right to blame anyone?

If you are afraid to put such paper giant as Russia back to its place, a country run by midget with $100 min wage, then why do you even need your enormous military budgets? To drone strike some mudslimes in the desert? Well good luck then.

No he fucked up big time by not standing up to the Russians.
Arguably his worst actions during his presidency were his lack of actions against putins invasion of the eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

WE

Can't wait until your non-country collapses and we finally reintegrate Cernauti and Ismail.

but you guys aren't a strong US ally
I don't mean to suck Russian dick here but you're not a NATO ally and we don't have a military responsibility for the EU
war with Russia would not just include the US and Ukraine

You guys abandoned russia for the EU.

Very bad decision. The EU does not give a fuck about you. Only france and germany benefit from the EU, other nations are there to be the "Poorer" nations of the united states of europe.

You deserve Russia fully annexing the whole country.

because that worked so well the last time they did that

And the EU is working out well for the Italy and Greece. Enforcing poverty on them so merkel gets more monies to bring in rapeugees.

You wonder why we left burger?

Gypsy please, you have more important stuff to do than turning another piece of soil into a shithole.

The Budapest Memorandum, google it, fag.

You are talking like we are some kind of russia's property and not sovereign country. We are free to chose our own partners and you sound like classic Cred Forums degenerate.

I'm not saying that the EU is better
I'm saying that Russia has historically not been that great
you can't get around the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine who didn't want to be part of the EU

>I think he did

I think he should've traded Ukraine for Syria when he had the chance, now there is a possibility of losing both, or losing international prestige if he goes strong to save Syria.

Clinton will probably be the face of the same group of advisors, so if she wins there will be more time to fix this. Otherwise, I think he handled it poorly, and that NATO can't get the "good" part of Ukraine, the one they wanted - the russian navy port, and the Black Sea control.
The crisis in Ukraine and sanctions, in a moment of migrant crisis ensured by Russia prolonging the Syrian conflict, also ensured Germany drifts further away from USA, so now Poland is the new choice for NATO leader against Russia, meaning more money has to be spent there to beef them up.
At least a good side effect was mobilizing the Baltic region and possibly turning it into a NATO base against Russia, right next to its borders.

Overall 4/10, I rate it an inconclusive defeat.

Yeah, how did it turned out that "eastern Ukraine" rebels are rebelling on like 4% territory with everyone in the head of rebellion being russian citizens with full russian military support etc etc?
It is like russia rolls tanks in US and claims that's just russian citizens rebelling against oppression, so please give this piece of US to them and fuck off because they lived there for a few years. Sounds legit.

>Russia's early withdrawal from Syria
its a "us state dept makes a thread" thread

>You are talking like we are some kind of russia's property and not sovereign country. We are free to chose

crimea?

>starts totally unnecessary confrontation with Russia because 96% of Crimeans voted to join Russia
>constantly criticises Russia for being anti human rights while ignoring countries like Saudi Arabia
>totally fucked over his relations with Europe by forcing them to put up sanctions against Russia which achieved nothing
>sanctions waste of time because Trump will get rid of them
>Doesn't serve US interests in any whatsoever when Russia and America have so many things they could work together on and achieve together

Honestly I think the reason he hated Russia so much was because they're white. He really just hated seeing a strong white country and wanted to humiliate and destroy them. The guy is okay with flooding America with hundreds of thousands of Syrian terrorist monkeys but won't take in a single Ukrainian refugee? It's so obvious that he's entirely motivated by hatred for white people and Russia represents a good chunk of white people for him.

>Inb4 slavs aren't white

fair points
it's not that simple and you know it
you had me until you went on about white people
I think Obama has better reasons to be upset with Russia

>obama has better reasons to be upset with Russia

like what? there is no legitimate reason to be upset with russia.

Obama literally hates white people. You realise he's massively increased non white immigration and deliberately relocates refugees and section 8 apes into white neighbourhoods against their will? The man has consistently pushed for white genocide.

go to bed, Marko

>Do you think that Barack Obama has handled the crisis in Ukraine well? If not, why?

Because he threw sanctions on the Russians after Crimea seceded which was pretty much a forgone conclusion. Crimea was ethnically Russian, the Russians had a major naval base there that they wouldn't realistically abandon, and the people voted 95% to join Russia in a referendum with 90% turn out.

Seriously what's Russia gonna do there?

Tell Crimea to fuck off and watch while Ukraine beat a bunch of ethnic Russians into submission within shooting range of a Russian naval base with tens of thousands of Russian sailors stationed at it?

That wasn't happening and yet Obama threw sanctions on Russia for accepting their secession and not getting anyone killed.

So when Donetsk started going to shit, Obama didn't have any options left; because he already played the sanctions card and even got Europe to back him up on it. So he had nothing to dissuade Putin from dicking around in Donetsk.

Yeah follow Obamas agenda. Go halfway across the world to kill other white men for no logical reason while Obama dumps Syrian terrorist "refugees" into your neighbourhood and gives them welfare provided by your taxes.

I think Putin figured out early on that Obama would fold on this issue and decided to play aggressively.

With the Ukrane and even moreso with Syria, I'm really don't understand Obama's objectives going into the situation, aside from not wanting to deploy troops on site.


The US and Russia made a deal with Ukrane to protect it in exchange for ukrane giving up nukes.

By not intervening strongly, the US sent a message to every other country to NEVER give up nukes.

This may bite us in the ass when it comes to Iran, or Pakistan and trying to use diplomacy.


Can you be more specific about "Ukrane for Syria"?

>Can you be more specific about "Ukrane for Syria"?

NATO stops the embargo on Russia and recognizes russian Crimea.
In return Russia makes peace in Syria and agrees on elections to be held, which Assad will be ensured to lose, and he will retire to live in Russia.

Putin gets Ukraine, Obama gets Syria. Russia benefits more from this economically, at least short term, but USA ensures that oil and gas from Iran doesn't find its way to Europe without paying the dollar tax.

Free elections in Syria are probably not what Obama wants though.

Nobody said free.

>knew better than to start a proxy conflict right next to Russia

are you under the impression he didn't start it?

we do not want any problems, can't sustain ourselves alone

I love Obama but he did not handle it correctly. Russia needs to pay for their actions in Syria and the Ukraine including Crimea. We need a more hawkish Democrat in office to put Russia back in their place. We need Hillary Clinton. We do not need Putin's lapdog Trump.

Also I don't blame President Obama for his non-action against Russia. I blame the dithering congress who would not support military strikes in Syria or arms to Ukraine.

This.

You're on the wrong board. Are you looking for /new/?

That post must be worth about $3.50 for you

Ukraine is not a real country. The eastern part is Russia, the western part is Poland

>ukraine

no such thing

better check if your country exists

quite recently it did not

fuck this all

and check the fucking birthrates

Cockhole Rapefugee detected

you what? can I have Hartz vier if I visit you?

pls gib, that's a fucking equivalent of salary in Poo-land

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