Convince me to become pro-choice. Genocidal edgelords need not apply

I personally don't think moral behavior necesarily should be legislated. That being said, if a woman aborted my child, I would hate her as though she murdered my living breathing baby. This is why I think people who abort children are terrible people, and should be shamed, but not jailed.

>False and irrational.

Then perhaps you should respond to the argument I gave for why that is true.

I have a question for those folks that say intellect of intelligence is what makes us human and gives us the right to life. At what level of intellect could a being be called a human? If you don't provide a concrete level of consciousness or level of intellect then you would have to give every animal the right to life since they do have some level of intellect.

okay so why is it that the birth certificate is given when the baby pops out

it should be made upon conception, like after you nut in the bitch make her sign the papers

and if she has a miscarriage charge her with manslaughter

>which is when human life begins and whether or not it acceptable to kill it.
A fetus is living human tissue like your arm, but it is not a living being, so removing it doesn't "kill" anything.

>Life is scientifically defined as an organism in the state of development,
A fetus is not an organism until it is born

>The unborn
The unborn what? The unborn teenager? The unborn senior citizen?

>it is in fact a {{{human life}}}
Repeating it over and over might be a good propaganda technique for the weak minded, but that doesn't make it true.

> don't think it has value from the moment of conception
There is a major difference between suggesting a fetus has value (it does) and insisting that it is alive on its own (it is not).

We are all just clumps of cells. Is consciousness a lie? Where do you draw the line? These are nihilistic thoughts which ultimately collapse to reveal that we must save human life.

A miscarriage is not an active killing. We don't charge the surviving family of a man that died of natural causes in the middle of the night.

>A fetus is not an organism until it is born

It is in fact a distinct human organism that is in the state of development. To say it isn't goes against everything we know of biology.

>it should be made upon conception,
Agreed. It's odd that the anti-choicers celebrate their birthdays instead of Fertilizer Day.

I am of the opinion that it becomes a full-fledged human when it becomes self aware. For most human babies, this is around 18 months. Abortion before this time should be allowed.

However, this is too difficult a pill for most to swallow, so for a more practical application, abortion should be allowed up until the fetus becomes viable if it were to be born at that moment.

people who are pro-choice but against death penalty or vice versa are retards. I practice death equality and believe in both the death penalty for criminals and abortion.

Many animals are self aware. Should they be given the same rights as an adult human?

Because it's a lower-order creature. And a fetus doesn't possess the higher-order thinking to know what is happening, or what is being done to it. There's literally nothing wrong with abortion in the first trimester.

Because generally it benefits everyone to have legalized abortion.

Crime rates decline 15-20 years after abortions are legalized. Welfare usage declines as well. Women that are extremely desperate and would have gotten illegal abortions and potentially died themselves are now able to legally get a medically sound operation.

Also, it's effective democide.
>Genocidal edgelords need not apply.

Y'got me.

So according to you, if I wanted to take a year old baby and beat it to death with a baseball bat, that should be allowed, because it's "not self aware"

I'd leave it at first trimester in terms of legislation, but I personally wouldn't

I don't think many one year old toddlers are capable of knowing what is happening what is being done to it. Does that mean we should support infanticide?

>It is in fact a distinct human organism that is in the state of development.
Not yet it isn't. By defintion - not the ones you make, but the reals the rest of us use - an organism is: "Any living individual, whether plant or animal, considered as a whole."

A woman is literally fabricating the fetus in her womb with her own oxygen, blood, proteins sugars, etc.

The fetus has zero self-sustaining processes until it is ready to be born.

The fetus is not a body part. It has distinct human DNA that is completely different than the mother.

Fetus's are viable outside the womb at about 25 weeks.

Blacks are far more likely to have abortions than whites.

Therefore. Pro-choice = less niggers.

Boom.

>To say it isn't goes against everything we know of biology.
You don't seem to know anything about biology, or you would have known about that self-sustaining part.

But it's good when they get guys like you - the least intelligent - to argue the sciences you can't begin to comprehend.

The sad part is that you're not bright enough to be embarrassed by your stupidity.

it has a separate will at that point, and the public spectacle would be horrific

>It has distinct human DNA that is completely different than the mother.
The fetus carries the woman's maternal DNA. How could you not know that?

If it was your own spawn, and the other person who made it (father or mother) approved, yes.

Are you implying that the unborn doesn't have its own distinct DNA?

Hmmm. Perhaps we should take things a bit further?

Human babies/children can be aborted until they pass an intelligence test that no other animal can pass.

You became human at birth when the act of birth squished your brain triggering the release of dmt in your pineal gland, bringing self awareness into play. Prior to that, neither of us can argue anything but conjecture at this point.

Pro life is better, when women realize their countless pre-marital sex may have long lasting consequences they'll stop whoring around, or they'll go to a black market abortion clinic and die, either way is good.

trouble is with niggers, niggers usually abort in the high two digits, by making abortion illegal they will have either no choice but to continue and you end up with single nigger mother babies that end up even mentally broken then your usual nigger can be, resulting in more crime, more gibs, more welfare, and more police good work and then rioting, or they'll abort them in a black market clinic and likely die.

this whole damn thing seems rigged to lose if you play it like this

You're wrong on part 2.
But you're probably too dense to consider that, so fuck off and sage.

>Are you implying that the unborn doesn't have its own distinct DNA?
The unborn accountant? Or the unborn biker?

Does it matter? I know you enjoy speaking in rhetoric rather than dialectic so I'll be happy to give you whatever euphemism you wish. How about fetus? You know, the Italian word the child.

The only good pro-choice argument. Admitting that there is no way to define an abortion as murder or not but making the point that it is beneficial to society

Abortion is a necessary evil. It kills tons of niggers year in and year out.

>Are you implying that the unborn doesn't have its own distinct DNA?
I'm teaching you this:

"...all children of the same mother are hemizygous for maternal mtDNA and are thus identical to each other and to their mother."

Ember, Melvin; Ember, Carol R., eds. (2004). Encyclopedia of Medical Anthropology: Health and Illness in the World's Cultures. 1. Cultures. New York: Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers. ISBN 0-306-47754-8.

Look, I'm sorry evolution was not kind to you and through no efforts on your own you have this insanely gullible brain, but just give up the lies, the fallacies and the nonsense because even you know you're wrong.

The last thing free men ever want do it deny the rights of others based on lies.

Once you get out of Vaginal-Womb pand, you are a person. Until then, your meatflesh in a meatbag.

Oh so children are just clones of their mother. I got it now.

>How about fetus? You know, the Italian word the child.
I thought that was the Greek word for "the sprout"

You're an idiot with 0 arguments just like every other pro-choice normie out there.

>Oh so children are just clones of their mother. I got it now.
This is why people laugh at you.

Stop this stupid thread now and wait until the middle of the night so you can argue with the other idiots. Scientists usually hit the hay early.

only according to your politics. That has no basis in biology, philosophy, or morality. You only believe that because (((they))) told you to.

I couldnn't give less of a fuck about (((human life))) I just hate when abortion is used as a method of having as much sex as you want and then murdering the consequences. Having young girls grow up believing that getting knocked up by any nigger off the streets is fine as long as you kill your own offspring afterwards is the definition of degenerate.

Pure cold fact it's the best form of population control that's accepted by normies.

>hurr but white people are killing white babies
The type of White women who have abortions are the type you don't want to have kids. They would produce shit offspring who would further spread liberal ideals.

Could give a shit about women's rights.

That's exactly what you're arguing for by saying the unborn doesn't have its own distinct DNA. You think the mothers footprint somehow negates this and then have the nerve to call somebody else stupid.

We're laughing at you instead. How about you quote us something about yDNA next and keep going on with your non-arguments and ad-homs?

No one told me that or to think that. Yes, it IS my personal take on it. Survive the Womb, you may be called a person. Even then you can come out like a vegetable

>You're an idiot with 0 arguments just like every other pro-choice normie out there.

No argument necessary. We don't need to defend life at birth because that's the point it's always been and always will be.

It the guys radically moving the goalposts to fertilization that need to explain themselves. It;s hilarious watching them attempt to use science when they know so very little about it, but it's tedious and boring.

You are a fucking retard, Fetus's have their own DNA, retake health class and learn about conception.

The dindu population in the US would be twice as large if abortion was illegal.

Yeah, these degenerates should be forced to be responsible for raising their bastard mistakes to be welfare leeches who inherit their shit mother's shit morals.

>That's exactly what you're arguing for by saying the unborn doesn't have its own distinct DNA.
You said that. I said that the offspring always carries complete set of the woman's mtDNA.

Do you really not understand a thing about this?

Being pro choice gives you the legal right to kill you unborn child, if you choose to. Being pro-life doesnt.

Being pro choice doesnt mean you have to kill any of your children.

So pro-choice gives you more degrees of freedom. In my opinion always a good thing.

It's called keeping your fucking legs closed.

And this negates the fact that the unborn has its own distinct DNA how?

>The type of White women who have abortions are the type you don't want to have kids. They would produce shit offspring who would further spread liberal ideals

Exactly. I've known three girls in my life who had abortions, two of them were white and one was mexican. The two whites were degenerate whores and still are.

>So pro-choice gives you more degrees of freedom. In my opinion always a good thing.

Would you be okay with removing every law in the book regarding murder and robbery since that means more freedom for everybody?

>It has distinct human DNA that is completely different than the mother.
It is not completely different from the mother.

You made a rookie mistake, you were incapable of understanding it, so you doubled down on the dumbass.

Next you're going to have to backpeddle from your nonsense.

Ya, that's not going to happen, especially with how shit is going in society.

I used to be pro-life too but once you see the benefits to it, the pros out weigh the cons. It's a terrible thing but it's necessary.

>That went extreme quite fast

You know legally, in Australian, a person isn't a person until they have taken their first breath.

If they weren't taught by responsible parents to keep their legs closed, are they supposed to magically learn this on their own?

Modesty and chastity are ideals that come from being indoctrinated from youth. These arent natural inherited characteristics.

I find that the best philosophy is one that holds up under extremes.

Check'd PRAISE KEK

So why war? Let's just nuke everyone who disagrees with us now

>legal right to kill you unborn child,
It is legal to terminate a pregnancy because the fetus isn't alive until it is born
Since it isn't alive, it is inaccurate to call te termination a "killing".
No one walks into a store and asks for a carton unhatched chickens.

Unborn senior citizens is why people laugh at you.

>Convince me to become pro-choice.
I can't

Science convinced me to be pro-life.

You literally cannot deny that the moment a zygote is formed, it has a unique human genetic code separate from the mom or dad.

This makes it an individual human but just dependent on the mother for life.

>inb4 but dat means duh mutha can kill it!

A baby is 100% dependent on its parents for life too. Do you want post-birth abortion?

I could get murdered, i cannot get aborted.

The most basic definition of life comes with two requirements:
1. There must be a clear barrier that separates the organism from it and its environment (like skin, or a cell wall)
2. The organism must have the ability to self-repair.

With these, we can see a virus is not living as it is inert until it enters a cell. An egg and sperm are also not living because they lack the required mechanism to maintain themselves. But once the two combine, they have the ability to replicate.

Aside: the first neuron develops sometime before the 16th day, as that is when the neural plate is formed and the fetus begins movement.

not extreme, because it's what he argued for. Anti-abortionists see abortion (correctly) as premeditated murder. So when people say "I do it because freedom!" then it's reasonable for them to follow that thread.

Why are moral subjectivists so SHIT at recognizing other peoples' morals don't match their own?

Did it make it out of Wombland?
If not, just another meat sack

Just because something is immoral doesn't mean it should categorically never happen. The world if full of grey areas and competing moral obligations.

Abortion represents a conflict of rights. The mother's right to integrity and autonomy vs the fetus's right to life. As a society, we determined that the rights of a fully formed human trump those of a fetus.

As an added bonus, abortion reduces the rate at which children are being born into poverty. And most of the babies that get aborted are niggers.

A country generally shouldn't go to war unless they're prepared for the worst case scenarios, if I'm understanding what you're trying to get at.

You took someones, and here's just an example
>I like smoking
You then say
>Well let's pump everyone full of cancer then
All I'm saying is, if it's in the womb, it's a meatsack

You could have been aborted, and you could take enough precautions to ensure that you would never be murdered.

No one's DNA is completely different from their mother's, half your dna is inherrited from her. Still we consider people to have DNA distinct from their mother's hence why everyone is not a clone.

>A baby is 100% dependent on its parents for life too.
wrong
at that point, adoption is an option

I grew up a bastard and my mother never taught me anything about sex, but I know the risks of having sex at a wedlock and I will not do it until I'm married. How could that be?

Nah, just send the nukes. No talks, no invasions. Time to light up everything

>You literally cannot deny that the moment a zygote is formed, it has a unique human genetic code separate from the mom or dad.

Science says the woman's entire mtDNA is present in all her children.

Okay? I don't know what your point is.

That doesn't contradict what is being said.

>know what is happening, or what is being done to it

So as long as i kill you in your sleep and you don't wake up we're square right? Or do i need to put your ass in a coma first?

>hurr im a retarded amerifat durr
Fuck off.

A fetus can absolutely be considered alive, since it can also be considered dead. A chicken egg can also be considered alive(if a chicken could hatch as long as it it bred properly), or dead(if it couldnt hatch no matter what).

Jesus christ, think for once in your life you god damn blockhead.

Fuck off with those threads already, you nigger/retard loving faggot, if you want to take care of your wife's living vegetables go ahead, just stop being a dick about it.

My point is, escalating someone's idea to the extreme right off the bat is stupid

Pro-life doesn't make sense because we frequently kill animals far more intelligent than the fetuses we abort.

So, by being pro-life you are saying there is something special about humans regardless of how intelligent they are. That's an implicit assumption of the OP image. But what separates humans is supposedly their superior intelligence. This argument can only be logically advanced by the le soul meme.

To be consistent, if you object to an abortion at X time, you should also object to the suffering/killing/eating/exploiting of animals who have an equivalent intelligence to the average human at X time. However, most have no problem killing adult pigs which are as intelligent as toddlers.

The only non-religious arguments I've seen advanced to attempt to counter these are
>but the human has potential
The fact that they will grow into a highly intelligent being is irrelevant, they won't if you abort it. Potential is squandered every single day and we don't make it a crime. It's not hard to make another fetus. What's hard is making another intelligent, contributing adult.
>but we are humans and only have to look out for humans
This ignores that a "species" is a relatively arbitrary compatibility-based grouping of different organisms, and that many definitions have been advanced for the distinction. There's no point at which you pinpoint when species diverges except what arbitrary limits we impose to help our category autism. You share a common ancestor with pigs, dogs, and every living organism on the planet. They are literally on your family tree if you trace them back far enough. When did they stop being part of the in-group you have to arbitrarily care about to the exclusion of all others?

Also, the only real threats to humans are humans and microscopic pathogens. Nor does anybody really care about humans as a species at all (see: Cred Forums).

You should look up the philosophy of Peter Singer if you want to be enlightened by your own intelligence like me.

Until a baby is crowning, it's basically just a sperm and an egg and can be aborted at any time.

You probably aren't that attractive, suffer with self esteem issues and lack confidence. You're a virgin who uses "no sex until marriage " as an excuse as to why you haven't had sex yet.

>Killing innocent human beings is immoral

There are exceptions to this rule. QED.

Could you give me one?

Yes, everyone's dna is 50% from mother, 50% father, The dna is still unique.

>The most basic definition of life comes with two requirements:
You're missed the all-important self-sustaining requirement.

The fetus is not self-sustaining. It cannot live disconnected from the umbilical cord or outside its amniotic sac until it is viable (i.e. ready to be born).

>An egg and sperm are also not living
They are living cells, living human tissue.

There's also a lot of shit you're leaving out, with regards to the adult influences you had in your life other than your mother. You also likely grew up extremely introverted (and unattractive and out of shape) and was a virgin, not by choice, but by circumstance.

Your "ideals" are just a defense mechanism to avoid reflecting on the fact that youre incapable of getting girls/women to want to fuck you.

Kill the baby, or Nuke the world. No sitting out options, you have room make the call

Lol, that's called projection

youtube.com/watch?v=QWE_M0CX9So
>Thats why I'm pro choice

Kill your children, you're a lost cause

Since a fetus isnt a person it cannot be the victim of a crime.

I dont get you at all. It is super easy to avoid aborting unborn children you care about. Just dont do it.

To* make

It is but I'd bet money on it being true.

It's also super easy not to murder adult people so why shouldn't we just strike all murder laws from the books? It just means more freedom for us all.

The answer is kill yourself.

>That doesn't contradict what is being said.
Some idiot made the claim that the offspring DNA is distinct from the mother. We know that isn't quite true.

We can talk gene expression.

Who get's the most abortions?

>Inbred religifags
>White trash
>Minorities
>People whose children will have serious deformities/birth defects
>Single mothers who can't afford to raise children without government assistance

Why would you faggots be against abortion?

Now everyone's nuked and the baby is also dead

>you can make a strong case
make it then

Did I strike a nerve?

Most abortions are had by brown people. Brown people not having children is good. QED

You struck 2 towers with that get

Murders have victims, abortions dont.

Is there any real difference between a baby the day before its delivered and the day its born? The month before? Three months? While less developed its still a young human being with all the potential to live a life as full and as real or meaningful as you, I, or anyone.

Abortion advocates have to do elaborate illogical mental gymnastics to support their loophole crutch that a baby is not human until it comes out of a vagina.

So we are all just mitochondria? Or a fetus is just mitochondria?

We don't kill other humans for the same reason we don't eat them. It's because if we killed and ate other humans around us we would never be able to trust one another when hungry and then you can say goodbye to society. Intelligence doesn't make one human, for if it did then an alien from another world could be Human, and a brain dead person wouldn't be human.

>not supporting abortion

>No argument necessary.

What can I say to someone like you? Nothing at all.

>We should consider the act of actively terminating a life moral
>I don't need any arguments to support my claim

>Finished SEAL training
>US Army uniform
>>Even Says Army

Maybe I should go back to lurking Cred Forums for keks

Blacked.com

Brain dead isn't a person anymore. There cabbage shit

Trump will win

Abortion is necessary

That guy is a virgin who wishes he wasn't one

Kek wills it

That's the self repairing, yeah it needs food, so do you, if I take away all your food will you continue to self sustain?

>for if it did then an alien from another world could be Human,
What I'm saying is that an alien from another world with intelligence equivalent to that of humans should be considered a "person" and given all human rights. In fact the only reason human rights are called human rights and not person rights or some other word is that we don't know of any such beings.

>and a brain dead person wouldn't be human.
A brain dead human isn't a person, and they are less worth than a functioning dog, cat or pig. They have no capacity for anything that makes humans great on their own, all they can do is be an object for other people to irrationally project their feelings onto.

>A fetus can absolutely be considered alive, since it can also be considered dead.
It is considered "dead" at the moment it is stillborn or miscarried.

You might one of those people not so good at picking up clues, but you should probably ask yourself where they get the "born" part of stillborn. and why a birth certificate is a certificate of "live" birth.

Mindblown, right?

>A chicken egg can also be considered alive
But we literally don't count them until they're hatched. That's practically the most ancient meme on the planet.

Yes. I'll go get more. Fucking fetus doesn't have a job now dose it?

to reply to

>imagine a world without abortion

No I don't let you get more, now self sustain

...

Those kids are about to get free college and healthcare, before they take your job.

All of this is entirely irrelevant once you grant the right to bodily autonomy.

Then I kill you and get more.

Most aborted babies are niggers and spics

Honestly im pro life but considering most abortions are nigger babies and single mother offspring its probably for the best we get rid of them.

Because it kills niggers. If it was Ireland then I would advise against it.

We would have a flood of poverty-stricken children of teen mothers if anti-abortion laws were in place. Abortion would also happen anyway, but now it would be a black market with all the risks that come with that. Abortion is a necessary evil, but we should never forget that it is the ending of a human life.

>Yes, everyone's dna is 50% from mother, 50% father, The dna is still unique.

This is what you learned in 4rth grade. I college biology, they teach you the rest of the story. Maternal DNA is is fully present and father contributes to DNA through gene expression.

Of wait, you didn't go did you?

Youre just pretending to be retarded? Sure got me, great job. Top troll.

> definition of life
Wrong, if that were the "immoral choice" then killing any sort of life that reproduces is wrong.

i don't care if anything non-sentient dies as long as it's without suffering tbqh famalam

>Genocidal edgelords need not apply.

I made it a point to distinguish human life.

>Pro-Choice Argument #1: A fetus isn’t a life. It’s just a blob of tissue, a parasite, etc.

If a single celled organism were discovered on another planet the entire scientific community would hail it as extraterrestrial life, but if it’s a multi-celled organism inside one human being with the sole purpose of producing another human being… it’s not life?

>Pro-Choice Argument #2: Ok, well it’s life but it’s not VIABLE life as it cannot survive without the support of its host.

Infants, toddlers, and many elderly & infirmed cannot survive without the physical support of others as well. By this logic, all should be legal to kill.

>Pro-Choice Argument #3: Bodily autonomy! You/government have no right to tell someone what they can/can’t do with their own bodies!

Is that so? Then why can’t I sell my organs? Engage in prostitution? Procure any and all illicit substances for my own personal use?

>Pro-Choice Argument #4: The unborn are not a protected class!

Then why do we charge someone who beats a pregnant woman and causes her to miscarry with homicide?

>Pro-Choice Argument #5: It's not even human!

Really? Does it have dog DNA?

>Pro-Choice Argument #6: It can't even think yet so it's ok.

Is murdering comatose patients ok? Would you get away with it?

Would you say killing a baby is wrong?
Everyone would think killing a baby is wrong.
Is it okay to kill that same baby next week?
No we still know that it is wrong.
Is it okay to kill that same baby two weeks ago?
No.

Morals are absolute.
Time and location do not change moral relevance.
It is wrong to kill a person in the future, it is wrong to kill them now, and it is wrong to kill them in the past.

Abortion as a moral dilemna has been solved for so long. There is nothing to debate.
Abortion is murder, of a person.
It is even more morally reprehensible because the person has definitely done no wrong.
It is even more morally reprehensible because the person has no means of defense.

But that is not self sustaining, that is subsisting off the environment around you. I am asking you to follow your own definition and life. The fetus squires nutrition from its environment, the womb, just as we do from ours, supermarkets, it not being able to shop does not make it any less alive. Remember that you take away the mother from a new born and it will die just as quickly.

And would you miss that bacteria if it died? No?

I also won't care when Jamala's clump of cells does either

>Is there any real difference between a baby the day before its delivered and the day its born?
Yes, one day it is human tissue submerged in a water sack getting blood transferred through a tube.

Next day it is a living human being in the open air breathing on its own and circulating its own blood.

>1. Killing innocent human beings is immoral
I reject that premise. Killing innocent persons is immoral. A blastocyst is quite clearly not a person.

>You must be a human before you can act like one, so you must be a human before you can think or feel like one.
You must be a person before you can act like one. A blastocyst doesn't act like a person. It doesn't do so because it doesn't have memories, a personality or self-awareness. It's literally not a person.

>a baby is not human until it comes out of a vagina.
Ridiculous strawman. No one make that claim.

If it comes out of a human vagina, odds are very high it is human.

If a fetus dies without machines being strung through it, it isn't human.

youre not following the official narrative:
1:killing is usually bad
2:from the moment of conception, an embryo is attached to the mother
3:because baby humans can be very inconvenient, its not "really" a person until such time as it is convenient
4:therefore because of said inconvenience, it is not a person until such time as convenient, i.e. after the mother can choose to treat it as a piece of trash

c:therefore because abortion is very

That's not my definition of life. My argument is one meatsack in another doesn't mean it has the rights as the one who managed to get out of wombland, and didn't become a vegetable.
But for your sake, I'd evolve and use sunlight. Unless of course you decide everything can't be used, then I reinstate my NukeemAll policy since we are all parasites

That bacteria isn't a member of your own species but that fetus growing inside your womb is.

You wouldn't have to worry about Jamal's offspring if you were living in a white country.

"Nevermind me guys, just an inhuman lump of cell tissue, clearly not human, do you even DNA bro?"

> its not "really" a person until such time as it is convenient

It's literally not a person until it has the attributes that make a living thing a person: i.e. human DNA, self-awareness and a personality

Abortion kills overwhelmingly more niggers than humans.

do you think maybe that's because of the current mindframe you have over the whole issue? don't put the cart before the horse and don't use the fact you wouldn't care if something died as evidence that it doesn't matter if it dies---if anything it's just evidence of your current viewpoint.

but wtf do i know? i'm just a leaf after all

It's dead right?
MeatbagBaby

I can breath and feed myself as soon as I leave the womb. I even have a strategy where I cry and others bring me milk.

By that logic, so are cancer cells.

You wouldn't kill something that's a part of your species, would you?

But, biologically, from the moment of conception a fetus is human.

>Youre just pretending to be retarded?
Are you jealous because you're not pretending? You're the real retarded thing?

You win.

You're right but abortion kills more dindus than literally anything else. If it weren't for abortion, we would likely already have a nonwhite majority in America.
For that reason alone, we should not only keep abortion legal but offer (((free))) abortions to those in low income neighborhoods.

Because it's a "birth" certificate, not a "you're a person" certifricate.

So is my cum when I jerk off, but no tears are shed when I was the cumrag the next day

> knows a blastocyst isn't self-aware

your cum isn't fertilized, it's just half of the equation

No, sperm are not distinct human organisms that are growing.

Killing a part of you is not the same as killing you entirely.
At the point of conception the entire human is just one tiny cell.
Killing that cell is equivalent to killing a human being because that one cell is its entire body.

Still living cells. By everyone's bitching that a meatsack is a person, then sperm must be too

Still contains the entirety of my genetic code in it, even if only some of it is used.

That makes it genetically human.

Because you can't control what other people do, that's "playing god"... let your god complex go... and if you believe in god, let him deal with people that get abortions.

the chicken eggs you buy are unfertilized , no one is saying period blood is a person.

Dats just a bunch of cell tissue bro. You even science??

Meatbag is Meatbag made of cells, yeah?

>Genocidal edgelords need not apply

Why not?

Abortion keeps the black population in check.

So, we should let murderers just roam free? Jailing them is "playing god"?

Abortion feels fucked up when I think about it. But I also spend no time weeping for the children lost. If dumb and/or poor women want to prevent having more welfare babies I'm all for it

Being just living cells isn't all there is to it.

Sperm if left alone in the womb will die.
So will an egg cell.

But at the point of conecption a new cell is born with a unique human DNA. This cell from this point on is the body of a unique person.

What sets this cell apart from the others is its ability to grow up into another member of your species which, if you are a sane individual, you're not supposed to kill.

what about euthanasia of a human vegetable , full life support. that is not life by your definition yet if you walked into a hospital and pulled the plug you would be charged with murder

So? I'll eat the fucking chicken too, doesn't make the egg non-chicken

Let's nuke everyone who disagrees with our countrys policys, fuck yeah, straight to extremism!

>it’s not life?
It's living tissue but not its own living *being* until it is born.

>By this logic
Give up logic. You suck at it. Once you're born, you are alive and respected as a living being.

>Then why can’t I sell my organs?
It's best you sell the organs you're not using first, like your brain.

>You/government have no right to tell someone what they can/can’t do with their own bodies!
Woman have a natural, Kantian, self-determination right to decide for themselves if they will bear children or not. The most advanced civilizations respect that right.

Hitler, Stalin and Mao were all against abortion and used the govermment to force women to bear children. Now China forces women to have abortions. State-controlled wombs are always a bad idea.

>causes her to miscarry with homicide?
You mean feticide. It's only homicide when the fetus is viable.

>Abortion is murder, of a person.
It is not. Not according to our law, language, culture, religion, science or history.

If it makes it out of the Womb and lives/nonVegi, it's a Person. Doesn't/isVegi, it's a meatsack

Then so is someone comatose for extended periods.

your arguments are getting pretty retarded, you are saying a new born baby is self sufficient . a 1 day old baby can feed themselves?

proof that only retards support abortion.

Sperm cells are gametes. They are incomplete. They are not a human any more than your hair or fingernails are a human. Sperm cells are designed to be expended. If you don't expend them, then they wither and are absorbed back into your body.

Dumb fuckers like you wouldn't know the difference between a haircut and a fucking murder.

That's a stillborn. Not an abortion.

this, also conservacucks cant into critical thinking or understanding nuance in any way shape or form.

>it's natural to get your unborn baby ripped from your womb long before it is due and let it die by amputation

>fetuses aren't alive!!!
They are alive according to every possible definition.

Unless, you stupid fucker, you don't know the difference between a dead fetus and a living one.

>You disagree so I'm a compare haircuts to murder
Babh dies in womb=Meatsack
Gets out=Person
>Not if Vegi tho

>yes surely these abortions will stop the blacks
>this is fine

You realise that at msot you will get one generation of niglets who don't get aborted which will strip their mothers of resources and make them undesirable to be with.

The only reason they are fucking so much is because they see no consequence to it.
The life of a baby means nothing to them.
And if it means nothing to you then you're just like them.

Fertilize an egg in a woman and don't let the woman eat/drink
Guess what dies first

calm down hillary

>I can't see it, so it can't be alive!!!!!!
>I'm going to ignore biology and science to promote my bullshit political ideology!
>I've forsaken my humanity for good boy points!
Those unborn persons are more human than you are, at this point.

>Miscarriage is the most common complication of earlypregnancy.[11]Among females who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage rate is roughly 10% to 20% while rates among allfertilisationis around 30% to 50%.[1][5]

Either God is a mass murderer or half of people who try to conceive should be put in jail for manslaughter.

Nice one m8. Still doesn't make a Meatsack a person
>MAGA

>because it dies faster than the mother, it's not a baby!
I know it sounded fine in your head, but it's a really stupid argument.

Consiousness is when you can have an idea all by yourself. A baby can eat candy and like it and want to eat more. A fetus can't

Do you understand the difference between a person dying of natural causes and somebody dying as a result of the actions of another person?

Again, it's a Meatsack until it earns life by getting out of Wombland
Best part of all of this is I'm against Abortion myself, but still see meatsacks as such until there out. So yeah, I date girl, she gets rid of meatsack, I'd be sad and pissed

I understand the difference between a bunch of cells being flushed down the toilet and no one giving a fuck, and a human.

Abortion kills niggers though

>Huhr god is a mass murderer!!!
Yeah, considering ALL HUMANS DIE EVENTUALLY, you fucking retard. There's a difference between someone dying of cancer and someone being torn apart by other humans to prematurely end their lives. One is natural causes and the other is murder.

God's allowed to kill people. It's part of his fucking job description.

All men are rapists. Rapists want their offspring to survive.

>It's living tissue but not its own living *being* until it is born.
What qualifies as a living being to you? Something that crawls out of the uterus?

>You suck at it. Once you're born, you are alive and respected as a living being.
And before that I was dead?

>It's best you sell the organs you're not using first, like your brain.
Nice argument

>Woman have a natural, Kantian, self-determination right to decide for themselves if they will bear children or not.
Which the decide by choosing to have sex.
Noone forces you to have children, you can just choose not to have sex.

>You mean feticide. It's only homicide when the fetus is viable.
Semantics, he is still charged with a crime.

>It is not. Not according to our law, language, culture, religion, science or history.
The only one of those that is objective is science.

And I bet those " natural causes" cases will increase fifty-fold if you banned abortion buddy

So?

It's not a meatsack. Babies can literally out-survive their mothers. A pregnant woman in my town was hit by a train the other day. She died in a few minutes and the baby was ripped out of her dead womb by an EMT, and saved.

>this is the only definition

subjective

That picture is of an aborted fetus.

What?

I hope you can see that it would be absurd if everyone had to prove that their actions are not immoral according to god-knows-whose standards every time they're about to perform some action. Since you're the one seeking to forbid certain acts, the burden of proof is on you. Provide evidence that a blastocyst is self-aware. (Protip: you can't, because a blastocyst doesn't demonstrate any behaviors associated with self-awareness and doesn't have the necessary wetware for self-awareness to arise).

>I dunno wut happen, mah baby just shot himself in the face, twice
>Suicide at such a young age!
Then the meatsack became a Person. If it didn't make it, one dead woman and a womb full of meat

Why does self awareness matter? Animals can be self aware but this doesn't mean they're human and worthy of protection.

So if someone's not self aware, you can murder them, legally? If someone doesn't have a personality, you can murder them, legally?

Might want to post some guards at the life support stations in every hospital, because anyone could unplug those fuckers and suffer no legal consequences!

Why does crawling out of a vagina make someone a person?

You went extreme
>No more jail now because you said X
So no more war, because we can nuke our opponents

...

>Women will stop whoring around
translation
>I don't understand women.
And women and children don't die from black market abortion, they just have defects that harm society. (See romania, they outlawed abortion and the next generation had the most defects per capita in the world)

So when they're like 4 years old then? You're ok with infanticide?

I didn't say it is the only possible definition, but it's a meaningful and commonly used one. Whether you agree with this definition or not is completely irrelevant. It's not about the sounds your mouth makes. It's about being able to make a meaningful distinction between just any bunch of human cells and a bunch of human cells that act like you and me.

>About 30% to 40% of all fertilized eggs miscarry, often before the pregnancy is known.

guys this is fucking horrifying, why does no one recognize all the millions of dead babies in our society? we need a national day of remembrance for these meat sacks!

Near last challenge. Either you make it, or someone says nope and you never achieve living. Your forgotten and remembered as a Mistake, tough choice or God's Plan

Nice bet.
I bet you're wrong.

What now?

>it became a person
According to WHAT? Dry fucking skin?

You need to understand that you're basing your philosophy on complete bullshit. The wriggling fetus is a human baby. It's alive. It's aware of its surroundings. It can enjoy music. It can follow lights shined on the mother's stomach. It recognizes dog barks, the mother's voice, the father's voice, and even has the mother's fucking accent when it first cries. You can scream "MEATSACK!! MEATSACK!!! MEATSACK!!!" all you want, but those words have no fucking meaning in THIS reality -- just the one you built up in your head.

>natural causes are horrible things!
Stupid fuck.

No, I didn't went extreme your comparison just makes no sense. You are not contesting the premise that abortions are the same as murder at all, you are simply saying that people should be feel to do it. Therefore I'm comparing that kind of a murder to a regular kind of a murder. What's extreme about that???

And your comparison still makes no sense because you are talking about different governments with different laws so you're just dodging the issue. My comparison is about two different forms of murder within the same society and its laws.

The point is that it will die on it's own just like sperm or an unfertilized egg, retard.

I didn't say self-awareness was the only criteria. I said it needs to have human DNA, self-awareness and a personality to be a person.

SeeI'll change it up
Meatfluff while in womb is meatfluff

Nice objective facts and logic.

There is only one reason op

It keeps the nigger, and other undersirable populations, at bay.

What if you're playing god to punish other people who were playing god? Like how the judicial system plays god to punish someone that stole from other people and also playing god themselves.

Early pregnancy failure (also known as blighted ovum or anembryonic gestation) is a common cause of miscarriage. It happens when a fertilized egg implants in the uterus but the resulting embryo either stops developing very early or doesn't form at all.

I'm going to play devils advocate here. Abortion is mostly getting preventing the birth of kids who won't contribute much to society. Making abortion accessible would decrease crime, increase average IQ, and might solve overpopulation problems. Plus less googles.

Your not contesting that we can just nuke people instead of sending people in to fight. I just did an example of going to extremes.
Mine is 2 different war styles in our society

Why is self awareness part of your criteria? Animals can be self aware but this doesn't make them more human or more worthy of protection.

miscarriage is apparently the #1 killer of all HUMANS. why aren't we doing something about this epidemic? it's likely that for every birthed human there was a death of another HUMAN by miscarriage. how awful! let's start a foundation to rectify this holocaust!

>So when they're like 4 years old then? You're ok with infanticide?

4 years olds are already forming a personality and showing signs of self-awareness. The person begins to form as soon as a baby is born and perhaps even earlier, but clearly not at the blastocyst stage.

Thank you

Is a person self-aware as soon as it's born? Before? Sometime after? Unless a human develops sentience at the exact moment it is born, your argument is flawed.

Leeching off its mother and lacking sapience or even more than the faintest sentience, it is no different from a tapeworm. If the parents don't think they can handle the economic, emotional and physical stress of having a child, they'll just become a precarious household for the child-to-be. They should be allowed to opt out until they are absolutely sure.

>You must be a human before you can act like one, so you must be a human before you can think or feel like one
What? No. That's literally backwards reasoning, unless your only qualifier for "human" is "of the homo sapiens species". What we value of ourselves, what validates the idea of Human Rights, is the learned behaviors and capacity for higher reasoning that characterizes us. Fetuses, and indeed newborn babies, do not display such traits: they haven't had the chance to develop or exercise them.
Are you the kind who will never accept the possibility that AGI can be people with entitlement to the same rights as humans?

It wouldn't die on its own.
It doesn't remove itself from the uterus on its own, that's what murderers do to it.

But if you really want to complicate things.
If it's in the uterus you'd say it's not on its own right?
So can you remove it from the uterus so it could be "on its own" without killing it first?

>it is no different from a tapeworm.
Except it's a human and not a tapeworm

Fucking retard.

>when you live in a country whose only identity is being progressive.

Ignore this leaf he lost any potential credibility when he suggested fetuses have 0 awareness and don't react to stimuli

Sperm only contain half of the chromosomes necessary for a human to develop.

>why is self awareness PART of your criteria? some other things also share this ONE ASPECT but it doesn't make them human

Are you literally retarded? Non-human animals aren't human, and being human is a pre-requisite for being a person.

Meatfluff until it makes it out

economist.com/node/5246700

freakonomics is nonsense.

Who cares what some guy running a meth lab thinks.

You're actually retarded.

You're not answering the question. Why does self awareness matter?

>Muh sanctity of human life

Everyone knows people born after 1987 have no souls

There is no logical and rational argument to be pro-abortion. That's the conclusion you can take away from this thread and the conclusion I took away after trying to research and defend both sides. As long as you leave religion out of it, because the pro-choice side is always waiting for an opportunity to go on some tangent.

Interestingly enough, the only good pro-abortion argument is to admit that it is an immoral thing to do, but claim that it betters our society to have the less of two evils in place. Which is the "edgy" argument which you will never hear from kumbayah leftists anyways.

because miscarriages aren't murder. Abortion is.

Do you know the difference between "dying by accident/natural causes" and "being murdered"? Most legal systems do. Sure, it doesn't make a huge difference to the dead, but it's the survivors that are dealt with.

>it is no different from a tapeworm
Except it's human, parasites don't really tend to infect members of their own species.

>they should be allowed to opt out
By not having sex

>What we value of ourselves, what validates the idea of Human Rights, is the learned behaviors and capacity for higher reasoning that characterizes us
Is it okay to murder people who lack those traits?
Demented people, alzheimer stumps, veggies?

>Unless a human develops sentience at the exact moment it is born, your argument is flawed.

No it isn't. I don't have to determine when exactly it begins because the burden of proof is on you to show that it has begun if you want to claim that my actions are immoral because I'm killing a person.

Pro-livers who believe that if only people didn't abort their kids everyone would live happily ever after are just as retarded as libs who believe communism will work if only we do it right this time.
Real life isn't that nice.
There are situations where aborting the kid is better for the kid and the mother.
Bringing a child into a family that doesn't want it is stupid. Better to just get rid of it.
Does having abortions when you could have just used a condom make you a despicable person?
Yes.
Should we be legislating this kind of thing?
No.

And I bet those " natural causes" cases will increase fifty-fold if you banned abortion buddySuprisingly great bants from SK

You keep doing you

I think the other guys are onto you, switch your proxy or something and don't use the word meatsack so it isn't obvious.

according to YOU an your bullshit definition, which is nothing but pure bullshit. It's not grounded in anything real. You could use the exact same bullshit argument to say "Anyone I don't like is Meatfluff, so I can kill them without reprocussions!!!!"

but good luck seeing that hold up in a court of law.

Suprisingly great bants from SK

You keep doing you

>acting like a human is a pre-requisite for being a person
ftfy

If it can survive outside of the womb it is its own entity. Before that if it is a risk to the mother there is no reason it should kill her.

>Interestingly enough, the only good pro-abortion argument is to admit that it is an immoral thing to do, but claim that it betters our society to have the less of two evils in place. Which is the "edgy" argument which you will never hear from kumbayah leftists anyways.

That's right on point. I debate abortion all the time and I still have no good way to convince somebody not to be a genocidal maniac. I only ever hear this argument online though for obvious reasons.

And I bet they wouldn't.
Does betting on things contribute to the discussion?

its in the process of becoming a human, fucking retard.

sage.

Thinking and feeling ARE what defines personhood. This is why we routinely kill the permanantly braindead.

On to what? I'm against abortions myself, but also have my personal belief on the subject. Meatsack/fluffs are just that until born. I'm not going to abort the Meatsack and just hope my partner doesn't 180 on me.

Do you really need convincing if you ask people for it? Or do you just want a cnfirmation of your beliefs?

I am pro-choice simply because sometimes letting the term go interrupted puts life of both mother and the fetus in grave danger. Sometimes people don't want or are incapable of raising children and by going with it anyway they can just turn both theirs and the kid's life into nightmare.

I think it's more moral to end it early, when it is still just a fleshy growth rather than conscious, sentient being (even if with potential to develop into one) when you are pretty sure it won't work out than to let it go on on the basis of principle supposedly protecting life and then witness death or suffering because of it.

Letting people get an abortion whenever they want is idiocy, having irresponsible sluts use it as an alternative to anticonception measures is disgusting - but there are cases where I think it'd be for the best.

>You must be a human before you can act like one, so you must be a human before you can think or feel like one.
Yes, fetus can become a human, can feel and think - there is a potential for that. But when it is still jsut a bunch of cells it's not a human yet and shouldn't be treated as one when its continued existence is likely to end either in death or in other grave problems for it, its parents and the society (abandoned children etc).

>You're not answering the question. Why does self awareness matter?

Well, why does anything matter? It's irrelevant. If you don't want to accept it as a premise, you don't have to, just like I don't have to accept the premise that any bunch of cells with human DNA is sacred. The difference is that at least my reasoning is consistent, while you'll have a hard time explaining why a blastocyst is fundamentally different from a blow-off arm.

so cancer cells have rights too then huh

>killing human beings is wrong

I object to this. I would instead say killing sapient beings is wrong. I don't care if it has human DNA, if it doesn't have hopes dreams and a personality then it's not a person and I'm not overly concerned about killing it if it suits the needs of real people.

Of course, if you believe in a soul or whatever that pops into existence at the moment of conception, then fair enough, that's on you, but not everyone does and if you have separation of church and state then the government can't ban things for theological reasons either.

it's in the process of becoming an adult human.

Its genetic makeup determined it was human 15 minutes after coitus.

You must be clinically retarded. I will explain our conversation to you.

>You shouldn't be against abortion because it interferes with other peoples freedoms.
>I concede that abortion = murder.

>Well, should you be against any other kind of murder then, or is that also interfering with other people?

>WHAT IF 2 COUNTRIES NUKE EACHOTHER THO

6/10 bait, made me reply and greentext

Nice extreme push. No, that's stupid. Meatfluff is Meatfluff until born. Don't like it? K

>A persons is created at the point in which the sperm fertilizes the egg
Said no scientist ever you dumb fuck.

>Do you understand the difference between a person dying of natural causes and somebody dying as a result of the actions of another person?

>miscarriage
>natural causes

I don't even...

>Breathing.

That doesn't start until 4 months. Well after 90% of abortions

> by not having sex
How about rape victims?
What about women who would die due to medical complications if they don't abort?
These things are currently illegal in certain countries because of ridiculous black and white people like you.

>Is it okay to murder people who lack those traits?
As okay as it is to kill animals for the same reason. If it's to put them down, fine, if it's for fun, not fine.
Demented people, alzheimer stumps, veggies?
If they are truly irrecoverable, yes. That there are dozens of projects trying to cure all of those is what gets a legitimate argument to keep them around: eventually they might be restored to normal. Potential to become a fully fledged human is what makes kids valuable, after all.

I'm poking fun at the fact that if what anti abortionists say is true about fetuses, then there is a veritable holocaust of miscarriages to think about as well... and yet no one cares. if a fetus is a person then miscarriage is the number 1 killer of humans of all time

I will no longer reply to you unless by accident, have fun with the other guys.

Would you kill someone who is guaranteed to regain cognitive function in 9 months?

>Is it okay to murder people who lack those traits?
>Demented people, Alzheimer stumps, veggies?
Yes. Imho it is.

BEST POST ITT

It went from, abort baby to remove laws so we can kill whoever.
I gave the example of, Ignore boots on the ground, we have Nukes.
Go extreme, get extreme response m8

There are plenty of born kids that are living horrible lives filled with suffering, but this wouldn't justify their murder. If we can't kill born people for this reason then we can't use it for the unborn.

>Said no scientist ever you dumb fuck.
I don't think you understand what a living organism is if you think that. A foetus is, by every definition, a living organism with its own unique human DNA. It is a human. No ifs, no buts, it's human.

Will do

It gets rid of a lot of niggers and white trash which makes it a little more palatable.

Abortion is beneficial for society.
Without abortion, the crime rate will increase and the poverty rate will increase or remain steady.

Only if doing so meant that I didn't have to take care of them for the rest of my natural life.

>my moral subjectivity protects me!
>BUT YOUR MORAL SUBJECTIVITY DOESN'T PROTECT YOU!!!!
ok.jpg

So because of the definitions you made up in your head (sentience), you can kill certain people you deem to be "less than human" -- though, biologically and physically, they are definitely human.

But if someone feels different, and seeks to protect life that they deem to be human (and science agrees with them), you go all SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!! YOU CAN'T STOP ME FROM KILLING!!! I DECIDED IT'S JUST!!!

yeah...

>Immoral

>If we can't kill born people for this reason then we can't use it for the unborn.
If been arguing for post natal abortion for years.

>This is my ass-pulled definition!
>I can kill people based on my ass-pulled definition!
>but you can't!!! Because it's not MY ass-pulled definition!
Who gives a fuck what you think? *My* definition of "meatfluff" is you -- so I can morally kill you -- according to YOUR morals.

>1. Killing innocent human beings is immoral
why is killing innocent human beings immoral?

It isn't because there is something sacred about maintaining homeostasis in human bodies

It is because it is immoral ending a human consciousness, with its emotions, feelings, dreams, relations, and experiences.

>To this I say that thinking and feeling are actions that human beings can perform but to say those actions are what makes you human and gives you the right to life commits the fallacy of confusing cause and effect.
it isn't saying that clumps of cells aren't human, its saying that they don't have what makes protecting humans worth it.

Do you have to resort to less than 1% of cases to win an argument?

Obviously there are exceptions but those exceptions are 1% of all cases whilst I am fighting against the 99% which are done purely out of convenience.

>you're a weak and uneasy faggot if you think twice before killing your own child

>I'm poking fun
You're showing what a fucking retard you are.

>still just a fleshy growth rather than conscious, sentient being

You have no rational/scientific way to determine when consciousness enters the body. Any moment you determine as being the moment a human becomes human is completely random and subjective.

Of course not. Also infants gain conciousness before birth.

But there is an enormous difference between ending a person and stopping one from coming into existence.

Only the second is justifiable, in the event that the mother will die before they fetus comes to term, as you will have two dead humans instead of one.

The baby didn't rape the mother, so why should it be punished. Imagine for a second that you or you loved one happened to be a child born of rape. Would you still wish that they got aborted? Probably not, unless you are suicidal. I sure as hell know a few people that were born from such cases and they still wish to live.

I don't want to kill anyone lol. All I did was give an example of how everyone kept escalating things. Seems I've struck a few nerves. And alright, come find me and kill me

A bunch of human skin cells living in a petri dish in a lab somewhere are also living organisms with unique human DNA. They are undoubtedly human, but that doesn't make them persons.

yeah i can see that, you're right.

You're like an MPAA exec trying to argue against people pirating.
You are never going to stop it.
And there is no loss to society by killing the kids.

We know it's after first trimester. So just limit abortion to that period.

>why is killing innocent human beings immoral?
If you've gone this philosophically off the deep end, you shouldn't even be arguing anything ever.

Fuck, you're gotten too close to the vortex and found yourself sucked right in.

Time for you to philosophically hit the fucking reset button, and start over with something more akin to "why do we have morals?" and work from there -- then you'll see, quickly, how stupid you sound.

Your example is retarded and you are retarded.

You are literally saying you are ok with a certain type of murder. Somehow wondering about your stance on murder in general instead of the specific case of abortion is the same as starting to talk about WMDs in that grease filled butter brain of yours.

But it is not by law.
You'd get arrested for it so obviously you can't murder someone on the grounds of lacking those traits.

You can put him in this great institution called an orphanage.
You don't have to take care of him so you win.

yes it is a HUMAN skin, not dog skin, or pig skin, or rat skin. It is human, just not a whole one.

>infants gain consciousness after birth
Nope. They are awake and sleep at intervals during pregnancy. Please do more research.

Are you retarded?
Of course I don't wish they were aborted.
But if they had always been aborted I wouldn't care.
This is like arguing that my parents should have had more kids because "would you have wanted your parents not to have your sister?"

For people with empathy and humanity, it is obvious that is wrong to kill people, For evil and inhumane people like yourself, it seems you struggle without it clearly defined

>You have no rational/scientific way to determine when consciousness enters the body.

That's actually your problem, not his. Burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that someone aborting a fetus at some arbitrary stage is aborting a sentient being if you want to prevent them from doing so on the grounds that they are terminating a sentient person.

1. Bodily autonomy is the standard upon which we base our health laws.
2. Abortion is a medical operation under those health laws.
C. Abortion should be allowed.

Others went from killing other people who made it out of wombland. I gave another, more extreme example to show people the stupidity of escalating to extremes. My stance is No murder at all, but I know People will do whatever. You guys keep trying to escalate others opinions into genocide rants.
Loving this thread desu senpai

How can we possibly know that? The neural tubes already closed and the heart started beating long before that. We know absolutely nothing about the nature of consciousness.

I literally said the opposite of what you thought I said.

Sentience doesn't develop until around 5 months. Is a 3 month old baby a person?

You're not even making sense. People with humanity and empathy, like myself, haven't rationalized the murder of unborn children.

You've rationalized your humanity and empathy away on the altar of your party line or women's rights or some bullshit.

You just tried some serious "Black is white and white is black" bullshit there.