Soo... why exactly is debt free college a bad thing?

Because college is a service which should be paid for like everything else.

Okay then! You pay for it then so you can be debt free. :^)

>spend a fucktonne of taxes on education so idiots can study womens studies and liberal arts

youtube.com/watch?v=Zmji36q8E4o

Everything the government controls is shit in comparison to private entities of the same type.

Also, it's just another level of indoctrination for kikes, of course they want more people to participate.

Because nothing in life is free.

it destroys the value of a degree and puts crippling tax pressure on everyone

It results in people getting useless degrees. Paying for college isn't a problem if you learn something useful.

FPBP

But to answer the obvious it's because higher education is suppose to be a privilege, not a given right. That's why we have free K-12.

I might get behind the whole free college thing if you had to have the grades to get in and certain subjects were paid out of pocket *cough liberal arts cough cough*, but knowing the United States there will be a whole "YOU MUST HAVE ATLEAST 1000 GOOGLES FOR EVERY WHITE PERSON ENROLLED, GPA IRRELEVANT FOR MINORITIES"

It works in some European countries because they have a lack of googles and strong cultural work ethic

Unless you do trades work or manual labour.
But shit you're Mexican, you already know this.

Republicans want Americans to be in debt as soon as they're old enough to vote so they will remain poor so they will vote for Republicans.

Its going to make millions of people who are too dumb to go to college feel entitled to a "college education". It will eventually water down the meaning of a college diploma more than it already is.

>free

trades and manual labor are reliable now, but keep preaching this shit and in 20 years tradesmen will be paid in bread and water

Because it's the primary source of government money. Other countries can have cheap college and they still have good academics, why can't america ?

A thousand times this.

>Its going to make millions of people who are too dumb to go to college feel entitled to a "college education". It will eventually water down the meaning of a college diploma more than it already is.

>It results in people getting useless degrees. Paying for college isn't a problem if you learn something useful.

End of discussion.

Why should I pay for your Chicano studies degree and access to vd?

1st year classes will be fulled to the brim with students to the point that students will be sitting on the ground

or

Hard entrance exams

You can pay for my college bro, I'm in graduate school so I hope you have a good job sugar daddy.

College education paid for by the taxpayers is acceptable with a few caveats, like only useful degrees get funding from taxpayers, like engineering or Nursing; nothing like Gender Studies or Sociology gets taxpayer funding.

Also, it only applies to American Citizens, no Rapefugees or Foreign visas

Naw, kids just won't be able to take their required courses because they will be filled within 5 minutes. The funny thing is this shit already happens and degrees aren't free.

Vast majority of people who end up with six digit loans are in the top 1% of income earners. More than 90% of the people who will benefit from debt free college will be making more than the median income. It's one of the most regressive policy ideas anyone has ever come up with.

It isnt. Banning student loans is a good idea

because those of use with an ounce of real world experience actually understand that you always get what you pay for

>Education is only good if it brings back money

Where would civilisation be without philosophers, artists and architects?

Fuck americans who think everyone should become an engineer or attorney making 6 figures. Boring as fuck.

This is really a non-problem. Sure, community college should be free. But then again it isn't expensive at all. Transferring to a state university and paying ~10k in tuition for two years isn't really that bad (unless you're a commiefornian). Many people finance cars that are 30k or more. Should cars be free too?

This position is appealing to entitled Brown University hopefuls who want to pay $60,000 a year learning about Jamaican poetry and the vagina's relevance to politics

colleges are kike owned.

they just take your money and pass you with heavy curves then the degree becomes worthless.

if its a STEM degree no one should have anything against it.

We'll get hundreds of thousands of retards with free Gender Studies degrees refusing to serve me my coffee at Starbucks because of "male privilege" even though I was probably the one who put them through college with my taxes.

Remove sports from college and get rid off the NCAA and you'd reduce tuition by a lot, especially a small schools that are stupid and spend tons of money on their football team hoping they're making into a higher division for no fucking reason when only the top 10 NCAA schools' athletics departments actually earn more than expenditures and make money for the school.

Because then everybody is just paying higher taxes and I don't want to pay higher taxes so someone can go to school to major in womens studies or theater just so they can end up working at starbucks and I don't want to pay higher taxes so 10 people can major in history for only 3 of them to actually end up getting a job with their degree and not end up working at starbucks.

>It will eventually water down the meaning of a college diploma more than it already is.
What a retarded statement.

So if an employer requires applicants to be college educated, they're suddenly going to stop requiring it? They don't actually care about an applicant's education, but only that the applicant paid a lot of money for it?

If any of these implications were remotely true, then we'd be better off with your scenario.

You people are practically apes.

>wasting the country's money on indoctrination programs that will *literally* destroy the country

What a smart idea.

Naw, make the college requirement the same as the military Academy's. 3/4th's of current college students wouldn't be able to get in and only the best students get to go. If that were the case I'd be open to tax payer funded college education.

Progressive Credentialism.

I did all my prereqs for 900 a class at cc and transferred. Only a retard would pay thousands of dollars for English, sociology, psych etc 101. Idiots deserve their debts.

its a massive waste of money to pay for feminist dance classes

No one actually studies that. The large majority of 'degree mill' degrees are business or marketing. In the US sports related degrees like exercise science or sports management are the new gender studies degrees.

Because now instead of 10 people applying for that job there will be 20...

spoken like a true cuck

because it's not free
it can never be "free"
either you're paying directly or through your taxes

I was going to say this, but was beaten to the punch. Rather then getting a few good examples of good talent, the market will be saturated with idiots. Even more so than now.

Moreover even under the best case scenario a brain drain will probably occur with a bunch of individuals moving to other countries, hence wasting tax payer money. It happens a lot in other countries with free post secondary.

Why only a STEM?

I am in STEM and the last thing I want is shitters devaluing my skills for free at that.

If you're going to bring more people at least spread them across many fields.

That was so cringy I genuinely think you're autistic.

>people being smarter and more qualified is bad

stay dumb, retard

in a decade college will be a series of free tests via a website such as kahn academy (free highschool). if the government funded adult daycare now it would only impede this process and hurt society and education in the long term.
>liberals virtue signal for vote
>give "the little guy" free shit because they think it makes them denevolent
>bureaucracy hurts "the little guy" in the long term (ie. welfare and family structure)

Haven't been to college recently, eh?

Sooo...do you enjoy paying much more in taxes so that Jaquan can go get his PhD in 12th Century Black Migration Studies and then live off the dole for the rest of his life anyway?

How Susie spending $80k of taxpayer monies learning how to create finger paintings with menstrual blood?

Yep, great value in that, isn't there?

Right. And in this case EVERYONE is paying more in taxes so that lawyers and doctors will have to pay $100k+ less for their education. It's so damn regressive I don't know how these liberals can possible be for it.

Stem weeds out those who want a job and those who only want a degree.

Then I'll have "Sports Scientists" in my Starbucks refusing to serve me my coffee because of nerd privilege.

dude free lmao!

The point remains that even now there are tons of people going to college for degrees that don't land them jobs. That's why there are so many people complaining about their college debt, they got a useless major and the only job they could find with it was at starbucks. And obviously a low paying job like one at starbucks isn't going to be able to pay back their student loans that they took out for their useless degree.

College is an investment, you spend money to get a high paying job and make money. You don't see engineers, nurses, etc, complaining about their student loans because they have useful degrees that land them well paying jobs.

Once you make college free you'll have even more people going to college, getting useless degrees, and they'll end up working at starbucks. It will be a complete waste of tax dollars. If college is ever to be free something has to be done to get rid of useless majors and limit the number of people allowed to major in over-saturated fields so we don't waste our money paying for someone to end up working at starbucks.

>more applicants is a bad thing
I don't know what you do for a living but I know for a fact you're on the bottom rung of whatever business you work for.

Okay, I lied, I know you're a permaneet.

More concerned about your job-security than the progress of the entire West.

>You people are practically apes.
Top kek coming from you. Obviously you haven't thought about the possibilities. Diplomas are already watered down. This is a fact. Employers won't stop requiring a diploma. They have already started requiring masters degrees and above because they know a bachelors degree is worthless. It will become more difficult for employers to sort through applicants because there will be so many of them and they will vary greatly in quality. There will also be a division in the country because of the entitlement. Retarded niggers will have their symbolic diplomas and expect to be CEO's. When they don't get what they want, there will be protests and the like.

Because fuck you and fuck your bills, faggot.

The people that are capable of doing work in important fields already go to school for those subjects with the help of existing programs, and are able to pay their loans off since their major was employable.
Debt free college means that the people that aren't able to do STEM are able to go to university without any thought for their wallet, and get to burn $100,000 of your tax dollars to get a degree in a useless or unemployable field.

Your myth of "tons of people don't land jobs" doesn't line up with the real statistics. College grads are more likely to get jobs, and earn more on average.

A FUCKING LEAF

it mostly bothers me because technically you'd be "paying for college" with your taxes for your whole life because you still pay the tax after you finish college

Thanks for elaborating on my point more eloquently.

Name an occupation that requires a master's degree that previously didn't.

Oh, you can't, because you're just making shit up.

>government funds college

>college will be used for propaganda and thought control (more)

This is what I expect will happen

Who do you think pays for it? The middle class. HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Just saying that it isnt fair for STEM employees if they are the only ones getting increased competition from their own tax money.

I am also concerned with putting food on the table but its more about the principle of it.

I'd also like to add that the point of a college degree is not to get a job. It's to learn something and improve yourself. Usually a better job is a consideration, but I don't think anyone thinks getting a degree will make them a millionaire or anything. College is mostly to find out what your passion in life is. It's about self improvement.

No I'm a nursing student right now senpai and I never said more applicants was a bad thing just that more applicants does water down the value of a degree since now the college-educated individual has a lower chance of getting a job with his degree.

>you don't go to college?
jokes on you, your taxes will pay someone elses college

>you enjoy your nice wages as a graduate?
too bad, everyone will have a diploma, it will devalue to shit and enjoy your shit wages

>t. europoor fresh CS grad doing barely over the min wage

there will be no quality control in student and degree programs.

College becomes extended grade school and the mills out mouth breathing retards with a piece of paper saying their smart. Student population will increase while quality will nose dive, all on the taxpayers dime.

I do believe college debt sucks but making it free across the board will be equally as bad.

Save in advance so you don't have to go into debt to see tampon dispensers in men's bathrooms and trigger warnings every three steps you take. Totally worth it, bruh.

>College grads are more likely to get jobs, and earn more on average.
Well DUH, but the question is whether it was worth the FOUR YEAR investment not working, and the $40,000+ debt.

For a lot of these Vampire Studies majors, I'm willing to bet the answer is no.

It's not like debt is good, that's ridiculous. The problem is, have You seen how public schools are kind of shitty? What about the DMV or if you're poor, the social services office? Now imagine the same people who designed how those work and who run them are in chrge of our colleges education. Would dumb and impressionable teens take the service seriously and get a degree in a useful field or would they "experiment" and Party and study easy/useless fields? Obviously This would lead to an absoluten shit higher education form and provide an area for private institutions(if it's even legal by then) for the rush elite who don't want public education for their children. Now who is suffering? That's right. The poor, the minority, the ones who desperately want this "debt free" idea to be real. People make shit money because they chose poorly when given good opportunity. That's reality.

Most people with massive debt are actually graduate students, doctors, and lawyers who are making very large incomes. There are a few idiots with $200k in debt for a "studies" degree but they are far from the norm. At the same time, most people who are having trouble with their debts (in danger of defaulting) are people who either didn't finish or went to for profit diploma mills like ITT tech. They usually have a few thousand in debt and can't make payments because they only make $7.50/hr flipping burgers. The overwhelming majority of spending on "free college" will go towards those doctors, lawyers, and professors who make six figure incomes. It's a blatantly regressive wealth redistribution from the middle class to the upper class.

>give college away for free

How the fuck is the military going coerce people into selling their souls into Uncle Sam's indentured servitude?

>everybody will have to pay for college in their taxes
>more people will go to get indoctrinated in liberal colleges
I mean, if colleges weren't so painfully liberal I don't think it would be as bad.
But everybody paying so hordes of dayquans go there to learn to vote democrat for the rest of their lives and whites get more cucked? No thanks.

DEAD PEOPLE ARE BEING REGISTERED TO VOTE FOR HILLARY IN AT LEAST 3 STATES AS WE SPEAK. THE HAPPENING IS UPON US.

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This is literally their plan.

it costs me $1500 a semester here in canada losers

Because Liberals aren't becoming rich doctors and lawyers, they're becoming Baristi and Waitresses

>College grads are more likely to get jobs

Well when you're applying to starbucks with a womens studies degree you will probably get the job over someone with a high school diploma.

>and earn more on average.

And that average would be even higher when you exclude all of the womens studies and english grads who couldn't find a job or could only find a job working at starbucks.

Obviously college graduates are more likely to get a job and earn more on average, but that doesn't change the fact that there are tons of people who get useless degrees that don't land them jobs or that only land them a job that they don't need a college degree for.

If we're going to pay for other peoples college degrees then is it really that much to ask that they actually get a job with their degree that actually requires a college education?

>Americans are so afraid of paying a 1% increase on tax, that they'd rather cash out 50,000 dollars for their childs education in where they will be taught and Master African American Studies and you're too much of a 3rd genner that you don't give a fuck about their own future

LOL
O
L

>a foreigner trying to tell me about the job market in my own country.

So you don't believe the best people should get the best jobs? That there should be a monetary barrier that once paid will ensure I have a better chance of getting a job that somebody else is better qualified for?

I'm sick of this meme. Debt free college will never work. Hernie Panders was a experiment to see what stuck with leftist cucks so shillary could lye about it. Its like Canada with Justin DUDE WEED will never happen

Really, the essential question is: who is going to pay for a bunch of dindus to go to college?

Because you can bet that there will be a shitton of affirmative action in effect, and incompetent penniless hoodrats wasting 10K taxpayer money, then dropping out first year.

This. Philosophy gave rise to everything else

But not only will you be paying for your relatively low costs of going to a state school, you will also be paying the ridiculous costs of that asshole lawyer that went to Harvard law and now pulls in $300k/yr. People who do not go to post-graduate school and do not end up making six figure incomes will pay more for their schooling than they would have without "free" college. Its so damn silly.

Having free higher education would result in more people being able to get higher paying jobs, which would result in them having more spending money. While the taxing on highest earners would be hard at first, I believe much of it would come back to them, since it's the top earners who control most production in America.
Maybe it'd also help Americans not to be so fucking miserable.

And like others have noted, while economic hurdle would be cleared, that doesn't mean that everybody could go to college, or that they'd even want to.
>Its going to make millions of people who are too dumb to go to college feel entitled to a "college education".
Don't American Colleges have entry exams? Or can you literally just walk into class if you pay people enough?
If too many people apply to college, just accept the ones that have the best scores. That's what other countries are doing.

So if college isn't about to get an education to be able to get a better job that benefits society and is instead for an individuals to learn more about themselves, why should we as society pay for it?

...

>If we're going to pay for other peoples college degrees then is it really that much to ask that they actually get a job with their degree that actually requires a college education?
College can also enrich people's lives in general.

let me ask you this... would it better if the population had a college level education (at least associate's/generals level) rather than not?

> Going to college 100% unequivocally = smarter.

Keep believing goy. If you are entirely average intellectually, HALF of society is dumber than you. You think those people are going to truly reap the benefits of free college? More than the strain on 100% of society through increased taxation?

You completely missed the point of progressive credentialism as an argument against expanding / free college tuition if that's your rebuttal by the way.

9/10 jobs don't need a college degree, but because the market is saturated with them you turn what was once a job that could be completed by anyone straight out of highschool with 2 weeks of on site training into a job that can only be applied for by people who have spent 4 years training in the more esoteric / theoretic side of things, with literally no added benefit to the job or role they will eventually fill (other than making it easier for HR retards to filter by 'who is stable enough to sit through college for 4 years')

University isn't for everyone, simply attending University doesn't make you smarter because you attended. It's important for some things, it's not important for others, and mandating it under the pretense that it's good for everyone is retarded.

I hope the price situation gets dealt with at some point as CC in my area is $20k for two years (and even more if you need remedials).

I'm already in my 30s and without a GED so it's pretty much fruitless to start from the absolute bottom and expect to get anywhere without facing my fair share of age bias/discrimination.

Maybe I'll try next life when things may be a little better when the DoE is dismantledoing and I actually know what I want to do for a career in my teens.

>So you don't believe the best people should get the best jobs?

lol when did I say that? I'm just saying that you're wrong and more people going to college does water down a college degree.

what exactly do they mean by "college"? Do they mean community college which is already cheap? or do they mean $100k/semester NYU for a degree in woman's studies?

It's not a bad thing, it's an AWESOME thing. It's also an unrealistic thing.

Because the feds have been giving out free money for so long, the cost of college has outpaced inflation by, what, 10, 20x?

You have bloated buracracies at these institutions now and people like Elizabeth Warren expecting $300k salaries for doing nothing.

Someone has to pay for all that.

I guess you could always insist that congress stop funding this madness. But there's no political will there. Do you want to be the senator who ended unlimited, unsecured student loans--I mean, the veritable human right that is a poor kid's path to a degree in poetry?

Take my community college for ex. They give niggers plenty of scholarships for being niggers. They sign up for classes. Maybe show up to class for 1 week, then drop it at week 5. EVERY TIME.

Your argument is basically

>everyone should be dumb because

If it's not worth taxpayer money to educate people, why have education at all?

Literally basic supply and demand.

>debt free

It's called paying back what you owe.

Just make attending the next year of college unavailable until previous year has been paid off.
Make it 2nd year.
>How to prove it
Fuck if I know.

If that's true then a degree is already worthless and should be regarded as such, in which case it should be free.

>College can also enrich people's lives in general.

If it enriches their lives and in the process enriches the lives of the rest of society because they got a job with their degree to help society then good.

If it enriches their lives at my expense and doesn't enrich anybody elses lives then why could I and everybody else have to pay for it?

>would it better if the population had a college level education (at least associate's/generals level) rather than not?

It depends on what that education was on.

>College can also enrich people's lives in general

If they want to experience "enrichment" then they should pay for it.

this this this this.

Deans are a problem too. Take Hernie's wife for example. She took so much money from that college. Temple's Dean ran off with millions too.

>too many people are going to college
>oversupply of college grads is saturating job market
>lowered wages and increased unemployment
>oh I know, let's fucking make it so EVEN MORE people have college degrees
>degree is now worth less than toilet paper
>people are forced to spend even more time and money going to grad school instead just to compete
>tons of money and time spent out of the workforce with no gain overall
>shitloads of debt because every fucking retard now has no reason not to get their free education

Anything I missed? All "free college" means is that you're unable or believe you will be unable to find a job and repay the upfront expense of college. In which case, why should you be going to college in the first place. If you're not able to get a non-shit-tier job after college, then why the fuck should anyone be paying you to receive that poor investment in the first place?

>College can also enrich people's lives in general.
Holy shit, I am not going to pay an extra several thousand in taxes each year to put someone in an adult daycare so they can feel "enriched". Anyone can pick up a book if they want to enrich themselves. A degree is a certification according to a set of standards, that make a person qualified to be an expert in a field.

>would it better if the population had a college level education (at least associate's/generals level) rather than not?
No, they should get the education necessary for their work. Those that don't need an advanced education should go into the workplace as soon as possible to increase the wealth of society and themselves.

4 years not working and $10K/year in educational resources is a tremendous drain for an individual and you want to put that burden on society, which will add up for all the people you want to support. If taxpayers are paying for people to develop skills, these skills will need to be put to good effect.

Free anything doesn't exist

If its a good economic investment, then individuals should have no qualms with taking out loans to make that investment. If the increase in your salary potential makes up for the loan cost, then why complain about borrowing the money? If the investment is not likely to be worth the cost, then why does it suddenly become better if someone else pays? And you can't argue that some people don't have access to the loans, because that is very obviously not true. No one in the US is barred from going to school because of the cost. The only barrier is academic achievement and being willing to take the investment risk. The taxpayers should not be forced to pay for individuals' investment decisions.

K-12 is free.

>hur durr everyone is an island and improving society overall won't improve the lives of individuals

If more people were educated, it would mean smarter consumers and voters. Better economy and government.

>devry > any state university

yea sure thing bud

think of it this way, if everyone does college because its free then nobody has an advantage in getting a job, to fix that companies like Cisco will create their own certification systems or courses outside of college to give you an edge
now college has to be taken by everyone wasting another 4 years of their life out of the workforce while taxpayers foot the bill and they earnt nothing, maybe in 100 years they will make the certification courses 'free' and another solution (and another time sink for young people) will be brought up to give a new edge in finding a job

>No, they should get the education necessary for their work.
That's a really sad view of your fellow humans. It would be better for everyone to improve and prosper rather than be wage slaves.

youtu.be/Xwj7DA5cwN0

>claims to be against corruption in government and wants a "political revolution"
>endorses Hillary Clinton
Yeah totally not a sellout guys.

Care to point to all the examples of people with 90IQ suddenly becoming MENSA geniuses simply because they attended college?

My argument is that making university free makes life harder for everyone, from taxes, to employers, to employees, for literally no added benefit other than your and others feelings.

It feels good to be the first in your family to go to University, it feels good to believe "Having a degree will increase your salary by 40k a year duuude!," it feels good to take part in a something 'traditionally' reserved for the upper echelons (both socially and intellectually), all these things FEEL good, but at the end of the day feeling good doesn't equate to positive benefits for society, atleast not on a large enough scale to offset the negatives.

This is actually the opposite of what is happening. For the past decade, fewer and fewer people are going to college.

You people really have no grip on reality.

>not fucking the Jews in the ass and taking out fucktons in loans and paying education debt with it and then moving abroad to work in another country and not pay a single penny to the Jew banks
It's like you're not even trying to fuck the system

"Everyone should go to college" is a meme propagated to waste women's time during their prime reproductive age. The goal is to run down their biologic clocks, have them marry later, have kids later, and end up having birthrates below replacement.

hmm... no

college, now, is really too expensive for lower class kids who don't have the support systems to manage massive loans

it used to be you could go to college for about 1/3 the annual wage per year of a middle class wage-earner (in the 1970s)

now a year in an average college is more than the annual wage

if you want an untrained and stupid workforce, continue the charade of "affordable college loans" at 40K+ over 3-4 years

So now watered down = worthless?

That is not the case. One reason, among others, is that there is already a very competitive field for jobs that require college degrees and increasing that competition will make it even harder for college-educated individuals to find a job since there are more college-educated individuals.

So obviously people in college or with college degrees do not want more people going to college, making it even harder for them to find a degree. And also the taxpayer doesn't want to pay for people to go to college, get a watered down degree, and then because there are so many other college-educated individuals with the same degree, not be able to find a job with their tax-payed education.

The autism is strong with this one.

We already have debt free college. It's called working right when you get out of high school, saving your money, then going into college with a real adult mindset. If you worked hard in high school you could easily get grants as well.

Its bad when a leaf calls out another leaf for being more of a leaf

...Are you asking for an economic or social reason? I can give both.

>economic

So the main thing socialists miss is that when you have "the state" pay for something, the obvious is where "the state" gets its money.

Before you say "everyone," think about who really pays taxes.

The rich actually pay a decent share of taxes, often not opting for the plethora benefits their parents took to secure them being rich.]

The poor pay nothing and this program is intended to primarily benefit them. (i.e. middle class and upper class can pay for college or afford paying loans off while in school)

The middle class fund these programs in a lot of ways, if you want an on-demand essay for that, google it because I'm not explaining everything to you.

Furthermore, they miss what the implications of saturation, hence why they're socialists but again, another on-demand essay.

The "real" reason Debt-Free college won't work is two-fold: first, let's look at the historical context - basic reading, writing, and arithmetic were very in-demand, when everyone could do it, nobody paid extra. a few centuries later, middle school education (i.e. algebra, composition of literature, etc.) lost value as more people had it. Same with High school Diplomas, and most recently, the four year degree is considered a baseline, and what it got you only 10 years ago you need a masters for.
Now imagine everyone being able to get post-doctoral status. Mainstream education (as in, non industry-specific certification) would then be the equivalent of a GED. Imagine, working at mcdonlads... after studying to become a neuro surgeon, information scientist, computer scientist, and so forth. The value of that degree would be worthless, however the industry-specific training (certs in I.T., residency/internships in medicine, and project portfolios to their respective careers) would only massively lose their value - they would only be next to worthless, unlike a doctorates degree.
Here's why, exactly.

we pay taxes on it, which arent that unreasonable because teachers are woefully underpaid and the facilities are pretty bare bones. Colleges and their professors however...

This guy's a great example of part of the peoblem. He relies on tribal cliches like "inb4" and "hur dur" to communicate nothing of interest. But as we all know, college degrees are completely useless to people who can't think or express original thoughts. Yet, this guy will probably piss through $150k that could have been better used elsewhere to get some bullshit BA.

paid by taxes you retard chink

This.

Free college means four more years of high school.

This
College and universities are already oversaturated with idiots getting useless degrees that have no real money making occupation like psychology, philosophy, and social studies as their majors while living off student loans.
Shit fucking sucks.

Have you no idea of how supply and demand works? Or do you feel superior to everyone else?

Not everyone should go to college.

Plus, it devalues existing degrees. No free rides--taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize liberal arts students. I wouldn't be so against it if it applied only to STEM.

Does anyone think this shit would actually pass Congress? I have serious doubts.

This user. Not to metion that iq falls on a bell curve with means the majority of people lack the ability to get degrees and do really well in the few fields that pay enough/have a good enough net effect on society to make it worth it. The only good thing that would come out of it is more bartisas.

If I'm not mistaken but in those european countries where you get "free" college don't you have to make good grades are you get kicked the fuck out?

>You don't see engineers, nurses, etc, complaining about their student loans
Bull fucking shit they don't. The only ones that don't are the ones that took those courses when they were "cheaper" and have been able to steadily pay them for decades.

>If more people were educated, it would mean smarter consumers and voters.

No it doesn't, it completely depends on that that education is on and how much/what they actually learned. Anyone can graduate from college in something, it's not hard and simply graduating from college doesn't mean your smarter or make you smarter in a way that helps society.

Did you graduate college? It seems to me like you have a really naive and narrow view of the world.

Whether you have a degree or not, you will go into work every day. The degree isn't so you can sip a latte and pretend to be intelligent, it is to certify you and prepare you for a career.

And the world will always need waiters and janitors more than it needs sports scientists or gender studies commissars. So we shouldn't pay to qualify people as sports scientists or gender studies commissars, when what we really need to do is just send them to work so they can begin earning an income.

Anyone can learn new things and enjoy their life. You don't need a multi-thousand-dollar professional certification for this.

Because the government should have never gotten into the student loan business to begin with, other than for the bottom 5% of people born into a shit economic situation.

All it did was expose colleges to guaranteed money floated on the taxpayers backs. Is it any shock to you that your parents said they worked a job and paid for their college? Suddenly loans were given out to 18 year old kids who didn't know their heads from a hole in the ground to the tune of 5 to 6 digits.

All colleges had to do was incrementally increase their tuition prices, and a cycle was created.

What should have happened is that banks should have always had fiduciary responsibility for the loans.

"Hello user, welcome to the first international bank of Pepe. You're here for student loans? Exceptional. You got some As, Bs, and Cs? Ok.

Now, here's where two things happen, with a similar end result.

1: Oh, you want to fight the patriarchy with a degree in Womyns studies? ... Well, OK... Here are our analytical forecasts in the types of income you can expect contrasted to our loan repayment plan. (Oh shit, not a lot, still gotta pay the bank some how, if the bank even decided to go for that major)

2: Oh user, you want to be a Roboticist? Great! We expect this career field to grow X over Y years with a Z rate of return and a B level of income compared to C loan payment rates.

Now, since your family is middle class and this is our money, we aren't going to let you make a foolish mistake like getting a comm degree at an out of state university you'll pay 20x for (Unless your parents are wealthy enough or have sufficient collateral for you to go to that Art School, or barring scholarships, and grants)

Here's 10,000$. Pick a local community college from our list, don't worry, we rated them for you.

Come back to us when you have your associates with a B average and we will talk about continuing on and refinancing to a university.

But nope, free markets are fucking hard amirite

Because every fucking retard can go to college with 0 risk.

Not everyone is meant to go to college. But if it is free everyone will. College is too hard for some people. College will be made easier (As it already has been) in the name of equality. Look how much the value of a Bacholers Degree has degraded in the last 20 years. You used to be able to get a good paying job with an ASSOCIATES DEGREE. Let everyone get their bachelors for free? Any good job will require a masters degree. Rinse and Repeat.

There should be no federal loans for College.

There should be no equal opportunity laws for college admissions.

That way the work force gets the best of the best through scholarships and private loans. And not shit tier fags with Womens Studies degrees.

>Sociology

Fuck you, I'm going to Med school after I graduate anyways.

Because contrary to what socialists believe, the government doesn't have a magic wand that can make things free of cost. If you don't want to pay, someone else will. Want to solve the problem? Tell the government to stop guaranteeing loans, giving colleges and incentive to arbitrarily raise tuition.

Any decent degree has first-year generals that include things that are pretty much guaranteed to improve someone's point of view of the world, such as a history, politics, or economics class. If you want a degree you pretty much have to take at least one science and math class as well, even for the worst degrees.

So what do the people do then? All the non college degree manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas and trades at least here are basically a college degree themselves

What really should happen is abolition of liberal arts and ---studies degrees

God fucking damn. I was writing a nice post but
>1 post by this ID
Fucking shills. SAGE

How does that change anything I said? Job market for college-tier jobs is shit due to oversaturation. Free college would make this problem exponentially worse.

Shitlibs and marxists don't understand incentives. They just see "oh, there are X number of people going to college, so that's how many people we need to pay for"

Which is totally wrong. Because by offering free college, you're now getting rid of the barrier of economization. I no longer have to worry about whether that education is personally worth it, because I'm not paying for it. Accordingly, the number of people saying "fuck it" and getting a college education because its free skyrockets.

Obviously they complain, point is they get a job that allows them to pay back their student loans while someone majoring in womens studies doesn't and the reason why the person majoring in womens studies doesn't is because they get a job at starbucks and we shouldn't be paying for people to end up getting a job at starbucks because that's all their education qualifies them for.

Despite the criticism this received, I actually enjoyed this post

It's bad because the top 1% don't want you to be educated; they want you just dumb enough to serve their overpriced coffee and clean their houses.

Why should we have to pay for universities that are brainwashing our youth and spending 10x more on each individual athlete than the individual student? So they can build fancy ass gyms, stadiums, pour millions into their football program, fund dumbasses on their sex fueled, drunken, partying at college campus packed full of useless degrees and a drug habit they're gonna pick up? So they can join some faggy frat house full of ignorant pricks or sluts who just want to get trashed and fucked by chad?

No thank you. Go to a real fucking school, get a trade if you can't afford school. If you cannot afford it you shouldn't be able to go, period.

>That is not the case. One reason, among others, is that there is already a very competitive field for jobs that require college degrees and increasing that competition will make it even harder for college-educated individuals to find a job since there are more college-educated individuals.

Again, see
You're basically saying a competitive workforce is a bad thing and efforts should be taken to make it less competitive. If you can't compete with more college graduates, that's a personal problem.

Thanks!

Another example also comes from Massachusetts, where the dean of the 4th tier toilet known as New England Law | Boston made $923k while his grads were unable to find jobs.

>Job market for college-tier jobs is shit due to oversaturation.
That entirely depends on your degree. If you get a STEM degree you're basically guaranteed a decent job. We have to import people on H1B because we're short on them.

>"Debt free college!"
>look at actual terms
>It's nothing like debt free college.

Okay.

A second, exact, economic reason debt-free college is impractical for the U.S.:

A major way the United States kills off debt right now is the college loan system. They profit off students' desperation to get ahead, and while I find that in itself innocuous, the problem is formed when that money is fed into social security.

You really do have a choice here, since you're looking into the federal budget. Social Security? Free College.

A socialist, who is completely devoid of empathy, will opt for free college when young, then demand Social Security when old (as pensions are dying and just about dead).

A capitalist, however, finds both retarded - the strong prepare during their working life for them and their offsprings' non-working lives. The weak merely leech. I felt it important to say, because I think socialists are retards and for baiting my reply, you get to deal with my plug for capitalism.

Next I'll go into the reason(s) socially it would be harmful, and lastly, I'll offer a solution to the overall problem you're presenting: the lack of high-skill labor supply in the U.S., and the saturation of low-skill labor. It's simple as fuck, but I thought about it a lot, so I'm not surprised it wasn't implemented. (I mean to say here, government bodies don't think, they do, which is why they do poorly).

t. macaroni basket African dance theory major

>We have to import people on H1B because we're short on them.

Bernie was totally a sellout kek.

I can tell you're a real thinker...

no its not fucktard my property taxes for a kid i dont even have pay for local schools

That's absolutely wrong though. We import pooinloos because they drive down wages.

Jobs are still subject to the laws of supply and demand.

And all those classes are jokes where you either learn nothing because the classes are so easy you could pass without reading, attending class or studying, and I know because I am in college and every class I took that was outside of my major was a joke.

And the other thing about those classes is that they are basic, simple classes and everything that you do learn, if anything at all, can be learned for free already on the internet or in a library.

So if you're so concerned about enriching somebodies life by having them learn what they would learn in economics 101 tell them to go on wikipedia.

Yeah, good one.

It's free, you triggered morons. If I give you free pizza, it doesn't matter that I paid for you, what matters is you got it for free.

Beyond this hypothetical, it's very apparent that simply more people are graduating from college than there are careers for. Law is experiencing this really hard right now. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians. Government-guaranteed loans have raised tuition and lowered standards in virtually all non-STEMfields.

>unironically genuinely actually arguing that education is a bad thing
Knowledge is its own goal, but leaving that aside the source of all of the wealth of Australia and even the entire Western world is predicated on an educated workforce. You simply cannot have the kind of higher industry that we do without tertiary education. You can't have a banking sector without people who understand banking. You can't have multi-billion dollar mining companies without engineers of all stripes, without people in corporate in GBR departments or HR departments or compliance departments who have tertiary skills. Australian companies cannot stay competitive without a large workforce of people with tertiary education.

>hurr durr but i don't think gender studies is a real degree
Cool. And the market responds to that. But clearly the people with actual money, who actually need their employees to perform, DO think that tertiary education has value. You can literally prove the value of tertiary education just by looking at the salaries in job listing. Tertiary positions are paid more because they are worth more, because tertiary education makes a difference.

Business wants tertiary education to make more money. Australia needs tertiary education to stay competitive.

>Jobs are still subject to the laws of supply and demand.
Exactly... we have a low supply of STEM grads and it's going down. We need more, so we try to get another people. Look up 'brain drain'

>We have to import people on H1B because we're short on them

I can't tell if you're serious.

People who go to overpriced universities actually think they get a better education. Meanwhile I get my degree at a STEM focused private non for profit school and pay a fraction for my degree. Probably what they pay in a years tuition. All I have to do is read one book a month and I bet I'll have more knowledge than the average person at a ui.

>(((We have to import people on H1B)))

I already went to college and paid for it. Now my taxes have to pay for your college so you can go for free? Fuck you. The only college I am paying is for my own kids. If you have to pay for college blame your own loser parents for not working harder.

And it is a waste of resources. not just other peoples money. But actual resources. The vast majority are not going to go on to practice anything related to their subjects or have any will to actually put the effort into studying. They would be better off getting in early in less academic fields. We get it though, its pretty apparent that the left want to use universities as their propaganda machines and they are angry this can't be spread as widely without it being "free".

No college, no debt.
Free education on the Internet anyway mate.

> because they drive down wages
I know a few Indians in America on H1Bs and I absolutely guarantee they make more money than you do.

It's what we do.

It would be better if our own people were smart enough to get hard science degrees but they're not.

And they should complain because at some point it's just too damn expensive and chases a lot of otherwise great candidates from pursuing something they have a lot of interest in. I cut a lot of corners and did a lot of grinding to keep a 4 year engineering degree around 50k, and I had to gain the system in a lot of respects.

As of yet I've not used hardly any of what I learned in college as a programmer. None of the physics, calc, chem, etc, so why should I be charged for them? The costs are being inflated. Sure right now I can afford to pay it back because, yes, I got a job as a developer in a hospital. But I feel a lot of the fat can be trimmed from these programs.

Same reason why giving faggots like you free money is bad.

but someone paid for it you dumbfuck lol just because YOUR chink greedy ass got something for free doesnt mean someone else didnt pay for it...holy fuarrk i thought chinks were semi intelligent

Another issue is how bloated college is. Each year, I was forced to take bullshit electives and mandatory "mandatory cultural competency" classes and shit like that. Why couldn't I have saved my time and money by getting rid of that shit and only doing the classes in biology, chemistry, math, and physics that I actually needed? Half my fucking credits were needless fluff that I had to take. And it acts like a racket, because without these bullshit requirements for electives and cultural marxism 101 courses, literally no one would take these clases. It's all just a scheme to artificially make these liberal arts professors and departments appear to be relevant.

A more competitive workforce is a bad thing when the taxpayer is paying for it.

More competition makes it harder to get a job which means less people will be getting a job with their college education. We will be paying for peoples college education for them to end up not being able to find a job with that.

Someone not being able to compete with more college graduates isn't a personal problem it's society's problem because when college is free society is the one paying for them to graduate college.

because it's not free and the money needs to come from somewhere. that somewhere is the tax payers.
>muh top 1%
bernie's campaign was running on a tax plan that increased taxes in almost every bracket. this also does absolutely nothing about universities abusing their tax breaks and inflating tuition. trump has the right idea.

college is expensive
not all people are equal
not all degrees are equal

>let's look at the historical context - basic reading, writing, and arithmetic were very in-demand, when everyone could do it, nobody paid extra. a few centuries later, middle school education (i.e. algebra, composition of literature, etc.) lost value as more people had it. Same with High school Diplomas, and most recently, the four year degree is considered a baseline, and what it got you only 10 years ago you need a masters for.
>Now imagine everyone being able to get post-doctoral status. Mainstream education (as in, non industry-specific certification) would then be the equivalent of a GED. Imagine, working at mcdonlads... after studying to become a neuro surgeon, information scientist, computer scientist, and so forth. The value of that degree would be worthless, however the industry-specific training (certs in I.T., residency/internships in medicine, and project portfolios to their respective careers) would only massively lose their value - they would only be next to worthless, unlike a doctorates degree.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

This stupid fucking fallacy always gets brought up every fucking thread.

No, you don't get paid more for having a high school diploma anymore, but society as a whole benefits from a more educated workforce - which flows on to you. If only 0.1% of Americans had tertiary education do you think that all of the high-tech industry that the US relies on to guarantee its high standard of living would be possible? How do you have cutting edge Defence research without engineers and chemists? How can you have cutting edge fracking and mining if everyone only has a high school diploma?

Education is NOT OPTIONAL. If you want your country to not be a third world shithole that has backward industry and shitty living standards, you MUST EDUCATE. Yeah, it sucks that you don't get basically free money for going to uni anymore like you might have back in 60s and 70s, but that's life. Cutting your nose to spite your face is retarded.

I paid for mine and im working now to pay my parents social security. Now ive gotta pay for these brats college? Total joke. Democrats are scum

^^

Call your senator and tell them to get out of the student loan game.

Watch tuition drop faster than Hillary in a warm day.

literally not an argument. Increasing the labor supply drives down cost of labor. Especially when the labor comes from foreigners on visas sponsored by the company, so they literally have to work extra hard and can't complain or else they get deported back to india.

You have to fall in line. 34,000,000 people ( 0.7% of the world's adult population) own 45.2% of global wealth. Meanwhile, 3,386,000,000 people (71% of the world's adult population) own just 3% of global wealth.

We wouldn't want a top-heavy pyramid, would we? We need those unskilled labourers to clean our toilets.

publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/index.cfm?fileid=C26E3824-E868-56E0-CCA04D4BB9B9ADD5

Ya and that is one benefit of making college free. But that doesn't change the fact that we'd still be paying for people to go to college and end up working a job that they didn't need their college education for which is why I said in the first place was that if we were to make college free then we should get rid of useless degrees and limit degrees in oversaturated fields so that we're not paying for people to end up working at starbucks.

Someone gotta pay those 500bill - 1 trillion dollars per year :^)

You can take a philosophy class without majoring in it. You can read Nietzsche on your kindle and not pay for a $10k/year book club.

>More competition makes it harder to get a job
Good thing that making candidates more competitive doesn't increase competition then. The only thing that can increase competition for positions is more candidates. Making the same number of candidates more qualified doesn't increase competition. The exact same amount of competition is occurring.

Just like the American Workers at Disney who were replaced by H1Bs, right?

nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us/lawsuit-claims-disney-colluded-to-replace-us-workers-with-immigrants.html?_r=0

No, the supply is not low. The supply of workers willing to work for shit tier wages is low. Rather than increasing wages to meet the value of american labor, they drive down the value by flooding it with pooinloos

>Don't American Colleges have entry exams?
>If too many people apply to college, just accept the ones that have the best scores.

But that's racist!

Is this what happens after the government gravy train ends? I sure hope it's cheaper then because $5k a semester at a CC is more than I make in net wages.

It encourages people to study subjects that make the rest of of the country worse off.

there's a ton of shit jobs that need retards to work them, but instead of just letting Americans do it we're bringing in a ton of spics just like Europe is bringing in arab trash

the demand for college degrees just isn't fucking there, either
we're outsourcing and granting visas even though there are already qualified and unemployed people here

free college is just a meme distraction by the same globalist trash that's selling the country off, just like wage disparity

Include me in the screencap.

Why can't people just major in something practical? Why does the government always have to step in for students' failures? I chose to major in accounting because I knew that it would get me a job (it did). I've since gone on to grad school and am studying to become a CPA.

You need to have certain grades in European countries, if you're retarded you don't get in. Standards are the same for niggers and everyone else when it comes to this.

>The only thing that can increase competition for positions is more candidates

So making college free which would make more people go to college which would make more people graduate from college which would make more people with college degrees doesn't make more candidates?

You as an example probably have a college education, right? But clearly, you're a fucking retard.

Point being, a college education doesn't guarantee that you will be any less dumb, unless your not a fucking retard to begin with.

that's why people go to university . they usually take something because

a. they like the subject enough that they don't mind doing it for 8 hours a day

b they need a degree or higher to get jobs in that field

if your interests are in trades and you realize that before you're out of high school, uni is a waste of time and money.

most people don't go to uni just for the knowledge. that what educational. stuff on the internet is for . obviously 4 chan is not in that category

So again let's look at some historical context, to really put our over-arcing problem into perspective.

Back in the day (1940s) at the place (United States and to an extent the "west"), the economic life cycle for a person was as follows:

>poor
Early Childhood: Work or possibly school
Middle Childhood: Work or possibly school
Late Childhood: Work and possibly school
Early Adulthood: Work and very unlikely, school
Middle Adulthood: Work
Late Adulthood: Retirement

This model, always included interaction with the real world. You were either working or in school (what college-age early adults currently face, for perspective).

>Rich
Childhood: Context of work within school
Early and Middle Adulthood: Work and school
Late Adulthood: Retirement, with the intelligent still continuing their education because Alzheimer's is a hell of a disease.

Today's model:
>poor
Early Childhood: possibly school, likely loitering.
Middle Childhood to Early Adulthood: loitering, school, and if lucky, work
Middle Adulthood: Work if lucky, Loitering if not
Late Adulthood: Retirement if lucky, Work if not

>rich
Early Childhood to Early Adulthood: school with a context of work, some working, the luckiest retired.
Middle Adulthood to Late Adulthood: Retirement normally, Work if incredibly unlucky.

See the pattern here? Work used to weed out the laziness of people as they couldn't escape it, or they were rich. The rich still have a "harder" time than their parents, but they could also have much easier too, if they're even remotely worthwhile.

When you look at the common person, regardless of rich or poor, you see a trend of laziness, and to group their actions it's generally considered loitering.

I play videogames, but during the resting cycle of my day. I consider that time recreation, which to excess I consider loitering. That is to taste and a gray area, there's strong arguments either way with grounding.

>So making college free which would make more people go to college which would make more people graduate from college which would make more people with college degrees doesn't make more candidates?
Correct.

The number of job-seekers remains the same, even if some job-seekers become more qualified.

sama sama

Jesus? You don't get financial aid from the state? At my CC, after financial aid, I pay like 40-50 bucks.

Yeah I totally want to pay for your woman's studies degree from swarthmore you stupid faggot google

Nail on the head

College would be a whole lot less expensive in the US if student's weren't required to take Gen Eds

You seem to be confused about what kind of "labor" people with H1Bs do.

Anyway, in most cases hiring an H1B costs more than hiring locally. A company won't hire H1Bs if money is an issue. The propaganda that it's a tactic to drive down wages is just a scare tactic by anti-immigrationists.

It flushes even more of my dollars down the drain to colleges. I'm already gonna pay for one of my kids to go to school, the other one I'm sending to trade school.

Also why should I pay for some niggers I don't even know to attend school?

I get the point you're making but it's retarded. Someone without a college degree is not qualified for a job that requires a college degree and therefore would not be a candidate for a job that requires a college degree. I hope you're trolling.

I don't think there's reason to let the greed of corporations, college admin or banks erect barriers between society and the doctors, engineers, scientists, linguists, architects, teachers, historians and skilled tradesmen it needs in order to prosper

I support public ed through grad school for the things society no shit needs in order prosper

I do not believe gender/ethnic studies intersectional feminism is one of those things. In fact I find them to be divisive and often destructive

private institutions can still churn out artists and fru fru crap like the aforementioned feminist studies. but they can do it without government money

Vast majority of people don't need or benefit from University, progressive credentialism turns an 18 year old workforce into (at best) a 22 year old work force, not even including fucking around and jumping between 3 different courses before one graduates because they're a moronic 18 year old who should just go straight into a mid-tier job that shouldn't (but does) require tertiary education.

I agree with the notion that knowledge is it's own reward, that everyone SHOULD want to better themselves, but at the end of the day 'Making University Free' doesn't provide any comcrete, marked and assured advantage for everyone. For some people it might, for the average it might, but when you expand that average to include every, single, person, it more than likely wont.

Also, there is a difference between STEM and Basketweaving courses, i'm not saying we should stop people from going to those courses, but any and all proposals for "Free University" doesn't make that distinction, and for the vast majority of people such a proposal would flood those shitty degrees with shitty people who learn nothing and do not develop or operate under a "Knowledge is it's own reward" mentality.

You'll push the 'starting age' of dozens of careers even further back than they need to be. It's the ultimate corporate cockguzzling (and the saddest admission to the lack of quality in our primary and secondary schooling systems) to suggest every single person in society must undergo additional 4 years of schooling for their benefit when in the VAST majority of cases said corporation can simply train up a fresh hire to competent levels within a MAXIMUM of 6 months.

Since you people are fucking retards, i'll outright state this doesn't extend to careers or degrees that actually require extended study to participate in (Doctors, Lawyers, STEM ect)

Cred Forums's more valueable to me then reading 250 boring pages of garbage literature.

>waaaaaah
Why are you ascribing tears to us? You're the one who got absolutely BTFO because your geriatric Jew candidate refused to call a criminal a criminal. You got rekt. Humiliated. Obliterated. The DNC has now shown that it doesn't need White libshit college kids to win elections anymore, they only need spics and coons.

The Left in America is dead for good. Your options now are centre-right and centre-slightly-further-right.

The game is literally over. The Overton window has shifted so far to the eighth economically that soft Socialism isn't even a viable platform anymore.

The only person crying here should be you and the other thieves who want free shit on someone else's dime.

WHO will pay the teachers? When your kid can't get a spot on a class and no amount of money, no amount of extra work you do will make a difference then what? Drive the taxes higher and higher so a dumb whore can get her sociology degree and live on social help for the rest of her life?

>Someone without a college degree is not qualified for a job that requires a college degree and therefore would not be a candidate for a job that requires a college degree
Actually they still are a candidate, they are just almost immediately excluded.

Like I said, literally the only thing that can actually increase competition for jobs across the entire economy is more job seekers.

You're saying that if more people have college degrees it will be harder to get a position that pays well for you as an individual with a college degree. This is true, but it's not a result of more competition. It is because you have become less competitive compared to all the other candidates.

>REEEEEEEEE

basically sums up your point, but I genuinely think you're wrong so I'll refute it.

>no, your GED/HS diploma isn't worth as much anymore

FTFY

>but society as a whole benefits from a more educated workforce

I agree, with caveats.

Yes, more educated peoples are better peoples, when their education isn't liberal doctrine (i.e. mexican intellectuals and SJW fuckall). We see much more of the latter than the former, and people with those bullshit degrees end up fucking the younger generation over, because they're taking entry-level positions that a degree is supposed to shortcut.

You fail to understand that EDUCATION, IS, OPTIONAL in a well-functioning capitalist economy. No, not ancap, a purely capitalist economy, not government. Learn the difference.

>tertiary education

Exactly my point though, it's trivia, not academia. Those too, are distinct.

>how do you have cutting edge tech without more engineers and chemists?

Is equivalent to

>how can you have better if you don't have more?

More debt isn't better than smart debt. More engineers and chemists != smarter, better engineers and chemists.

>Cutting your nose to spite your face is retarded.

And putting a shitty horse mask on instead of popping your pimples is likewise retarded, your point is just as baseless.

>Anyway, in most cases hiring an H1B costs more than hiring locally

Interesting. Where did you hear that?

Thanks man, I keep trying to explain this shit to my peers and it's like I'm trying to build a castle out of fucking sand.

Thankfully, I've been very lucky through even my own retardation as a teen.

Fucked off on college after HS, floundered a bit, found a trade, and now the Fortune 500 company I work for pays 100% of my tuition with a 10k bonus for every level of degree I get.

10 credits away from my associates and I'm getting at a minimum a bachelors in Engineering/Robotics/Applied Sciences

I got buds 100k deep, my brother is 70k.

I don't have a single red fucking cent.

I get nothing if I don't go full time. I work over 50 hours a week and dont have Trump-tier stamina so that's a no-go.

Why so costly? Because my CC is sneaky and is part of my states college system in which they can charge exorbitant prices in return for granted credit transfer, which in turn undermines what a CC is for.

But that's wrong. The only reason so many jobs now require a college degree is simply because it's a buyer's market. They have tons of applicants, so why the fuck not make it so you need a college degree?

These are the very same jobs that 20 years ago didn't require a degree. The job is the same, it's just that they need something to weed people out by. And it's causing this circular problem. You're starting to see the same thing happen where a college degree is also no longer enough, and now you need a masters.

You can improve yourself in a lot of ways that doesnt involve taking more money out of my pocket. Im not your parents and I dont give a shit about you finding your lifes passion. My lifes passion is our national parks but Im not asking for people to pay for my gas while I go from park to park working on trail repair & upkeep.

>the poor vote republican
user...

Yeah, americans with compsci backgrounds can't get jobs due to the flood of the indians, but they're totally not taking anyone's jobs. Sure.

No. If a job requires a college education and you do not have a college education you do not meet the requirements and are not a candidate.

And despite that your country is still irrelevant.

I work for a company that hires H1Bs. There's a minimum wage for H1Bs that's typically more than what you would pay for an entry level position.

Reminded me of text on ancap meme pictures

so you're an elitist faggot who wants everybody to have a bachelors because it looks good and you feel they should have it

university is about 6-7 times cheaper than in burger land but if you want to be a Plummer you can go to trade school for 2 years, and read a shit load of books and look at scholar stuff on the Internet

plus not everyone gives a shit. a lot of people I've known , even in university want to play a sport, share Instagram photos and drink pumpkin spiced lattes. some people are basic , and that's that

>americans with compsci backgrounds can't get jobs
LOLOLOLOL

So what you're saying is you want to bet our entire economy on the assumption that there are a small handful of skills that will be eternally relevant and important for all time? Something like 6 of the top 10 most in-demand degrees didn't even exist a decade ago, my dude. Trying to social-engineer tertiary education is just asking to end up like the USSR, with a huge mismatch between what is produced and what is needed. Students do consider career opportunities when choosing their degrees, and if they choose to pursue a shit degree anyway that's fine, odds are they're still going to end up paying back their HECS-HELP debt anyway. Leaving rational actors to act in their own self-interest when selecting degrees is an argument I wouldn't have thought Cred Forums would have such trouble understanding, but apparently anti-intellectual tirades are more important than reason.

If it's so easy for corporations to train "just anyone", why do they want degrees? The people who actually have money and need to make hiring decisions disagree with you, so I don't know why you think you've got a leg to stand on.

Making tertiary education available and affordable to everyone does indeed benefit all of society. The more skills a workforce has, the more competitive our companies can be. The more competitive our companies are, the stronger our state will be. The stronger our state is, the more secure we are. Security is the property that everything that we enjoy today is predicated on.

It's fucking amazing :-)

Clinton foundation has already cashed in on the student debt bubble and now taxpayers will have more debt for useless degrees that no one will achieve or use. Anyone who votes for her is actually retarded.

To make public colleges and universities debt free. They would have to slash budgets of the public schools. You could say good bye to most of the sports and other programs that aren't classes. Salaries of anyone that isn't a professor or a dean will be cut.

>There's a minimum wage for H1Bs that's typically more than what you would pay for an entry level position

Kinda sounds like bullshit. You're gonna have to elaborate for me.

cuz no one would vote republican anymore

Seems like this leaf has tickled my sides.

Wow that sucks. Here in california we have the BOGW waiver that pays for the classes at the CC level. Still have to pay for books but it really helps to bring down the price.

Sucks that a lot of financial options are reserved for full-time students only. My mother works full time and she misses out on scholarships that require full time students. Even state colleges are like 6 grand a semester.

>being this retarded
Every person who is able to work is a candidate for work.

>but someone without a degree would never get hired to build bridges
Sure, because he isn't competitive enough compared to other candidates.

>B-B-B-BUT IN PRACTICAL EFFECT THAT MEANS THAT THEY'RE NOT A CANDIDATE BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO GET HIRED
If you're so concerned with practical effect then why are you having an abstract discussion about theory and semantics? Yes, more people having college degrees makes it harder for people with college degrees to get a well-paying position because the qualification becomes less valuable. If that's what you wanted to hear, go and jerk off about it. That's your practical effect. But the cause of this is not increased competition, it is decreased competitiveness.

The other socio-economic issue (and likely, this is the first time a socialist would read a real one) is what I'm calling downward saturation.

You'll notice socialists bitch often about under-saturated top-level positions, where a CEO may find himself sought by very, very many companies. What they fail to notice (or more likely, ignore out of contempt for rational thought) is the hyper-saturation the farther down you go.

In a well functioning capitalist economy, if you wanted to visualize the economic hierarchy of industry (and this is ignoring interns and consultants, who are non-employees for the sake of conceptualization), the obvious depiction is a pyramid.

The bottom is the most saturated, the top the least. As you age, assuming you're a type-a or a decent type-b personality, you'll rise the ranks, increasing your level of education proportionate to the position you seek, constantly competing one level above and below as well as next to you, for both retaining your position and rising through the large ranks to the limited, high-value position.

These limited positions meritocratic-ally require a composition of experience and education - both ought to be in a optimal level, therefore, you should always be working and learning.

However, what distinguishes us today from that ideal isn't nepotism, it isn't carelessness even. It's laziness, of the highest proportion.

There's being content within one's means (look back at what you're competing for) and being oughtright non-employable at the higher levels. There's 50 year olds working at mcdonalds, lawyers, at mcdonalds, and neurosurgeons when unlucky enough pick the career against their pursuit of happiness and end up mcdonalds supervisors.

These older people should be educated proportionate to their experience and constantly vying for rank. That is capitalism where the strong > weak.

That's not the case here. A major issue. I'll explain the solution.

The master degree thing only applies if we ALREADY had free college
We don't
Right now most jobs that pay over 50k require bachelor degrees
Employers don't even look at people without them

because it's stupid

go to a trade school, don't persue your passions, persue opportunities

watch this video, and it will open your eyes

youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o

youtube.com/watch?v=iyEbvehRPhY

youtube.com/watch?v=1e35Vf-9n8E

you guys are getting better at this

Degrees are already in oversupply, except for a few STEM fields.

I already have to filter applicants by the quality of their college and their graduating GPA. even then I still get idiots that can't do the job and I end up hiring another military veteran that dropped out of college and did IT work in the military.

it's a huge cost on the nation and is generally unsustainable. it also makes getting a degree pretty much the same as going to high school

Debt free college isn't a bad thing.

You gotta remember why you are voting Trump though. It's a protest vote.

You gotta tell the politicians to fuck themselves and you can't be bought out by making your post high school education free. They are just trying to bribe you.

Like lets face it, the republican party should be pretty fucked by next election because their candidate isn't even really part of the party, they just let him run for them. If the democrats also lose to a meme candidate than it will destroy them aswell.

American politics would never be the same if Trump wins. If you were running against a democrat in 2020, you'd tell them "You lost to Trump for fucksake" they'd have no response. So new parties would need to be created and you would have actual operation and discussion in your government. Look at UK for example, sure it's a smaller size but you can see so many different parties like UKIP and shit actually making an impact.

Diversity in parties is what actually gets politics to run properly, we have it here in Australia. No one wanted to vote for the two big parties in this election so the bigger parties now HAVE to meet demands of the smaller parties with actual ideas.

Similar boat, lot of people I knew in highschool went straight to state university while I went to the local community college, still there and almost done with associates.

If I had a nickle for every person who tried to talk me into a big student loan I might actually be able to afford said loan

Bernie wasn't even offering debt free college, he was offering to pay tuition.

US tuition isn't actually tuition anymore, it's an entry fee. I had "tuition" covered by a scholarship but still paid $900 per course at an in-state college.

We have affirmative action and a horde of niggers and spics....you do the math. Actually go and read some Thomas Sowell articles. He was a teacher in a few good colleges and witnessed first hand what happens when you just let anyone in.

It wouldnt be if we got rid of the insane amount of useless, govt funded orgs and shit that plauge this country

>PragerJew

American college sports is profitable, dummy. Coaches tend to be the highest paid faculty.

Look up H1B prevailing wage requirement. Starting wage is about $55K for an entry level position. There are 4-tiers of prevailing wages depending on the qualifications of the applicant and position you're hiring for. You could get away with paying a local hire below prevailing wage, but you must pay your H1Bs at or above prevailing wage.

basically, just find a good paying entry level job, and work your way up in there,

like working at McDonalds, you will eventually become a manager

>California
Of course, I should have guessed.

No way can i move clear across the country as I have no skills or a GED and have to compete with spics for low paying jobs.

>All these people claiming it will devalue degrees
>Implying degrees aren't already worthless

For-profit colleges already killed the value of a degree long ago and anyone who's parroting this point is just regurgitating obsolete libertarian taking points. If the career your studying doesn't involve needing to acquire some kind of license in order to practise then going to college in this modern age is just a waste of money and time that you could be spending starting your own business and developing professional relationships instead.

If you dont want debt then pay it you stupid cunt,no one forces you to get debt

Why are you being so autistic? Nobody was having an abstract discussion about semantics, so why are you bring that into this? I was simply saying, like what you said, more people having college degrees makes it harder for people with college degrees to get a well-paying position because the qualification becomes less valuable and that that is bad when the taxpayer is paying for their college education and then you come along like an autist and start nitpicking and being technical and semantic. Fuck off.

Nobody but an autist considers someone without a college education a candidate for a position that require a college education simply because they are a non-disabled working age human being.

sir, where is your pillow cases located?

none of you fuckers can be found, which is why your fucking service sucks, and why you're losing money to amazon

>groceries, hurrr
local chain here which is state wide has a wider selection and cheaper prices

fuck walmart, hope your company burns

most colleges use tuition to cover the expense of sports. Only a handful of schools make profit from their football and or basketball teams. Those profits end up going to Title IX sports programs, or mandated sports for girls.

Schools blow money on sports because it attracts students and their loans. If they have a winning team. Then they get prestige and more students and their loans.

If they're already worthless, then why pay thousands of dollars per person to have people get a worthless piece of paper?

Yes, its a problem that degrees have been devalued significantly. But it's not as simple as "valued vs devalued". Things could get a lot worse.

I have worked at McDonald's.

Being a manager at McDonald's is where people go to die.

It's not a bad thing, It just ignores the problem... The problem is that the cost of education has gone up 1200% in the last 40 years, 4 times the rate of inflation... the culture of Academia has changed... No one is willing to regulate the academic world, and confront the culture of self indulgence... 50 years ago, the average professor would spent 10 hours a week in a classroom. now, the average is closer to 2.5... one professor used to do the job 4 professors are doing now... In countries where college education is "free", the state regulates academia, and gets more teaching done with less staff, cutting the cost... In American universities, more resources are spent to allow professors to conduct "research," and teaching is only a secondary function... Tuition costs are propping the institution rather than serving the students, and as long as students can get easy loans, backed up by the government, there's no incentive to keep costs down... Having the government pay for college, isn't a bad thing, if it comes with cost cutting regulations, and better mechanism to provide graduates, with marketable degrees... Let's make professors actually work for a living...

society is not about being happy, it's about staying out of debt and keeping bills paid

if you don't like it, here's a gun

I'm not obligated to have a discussion that you feel like having. If you're not interested in it anymore, just don't reply. This was always my point, all the way back to the very first post in this reply chain. You misunderstood my point from the very beginning and now you're hurt and upset over it.

Relax, dude.

Debt means you have an incentive to get the fuck out there and get a job to pay off said debt and also helps dictate what kind of degree you aim for. I sure as hell don't wanna be paying for some dumb kids college degree when he majors in liberal arts or women's studies.

Who pays for it?

higher taxes faggot

College has been around a whole lot longer than the 1970's. Try again

Why not debt free cars?

In some cases cars are required for jobs etc.

Why should I be help accountable? I NEED FREE CARS. ITS A HUMAN RIGHT!

You won't get very far up the McDonald's chain without a degree anyway. Sooner or later you're going to have to uni to get some business qualifications, or you'll lose your promotion opportunities to people who do have them.

The best you'd be able to do would be to become a franchisee, but you need about a million dollars in assets and you need to be willing to do a year of unpaid work just for the opportunity, and you might end up with a resteraunt that is barely profitable for your efforts. Fast food isn't exactly a high margin industry.

It's not my fault we hire people who don't speak English and runnable skeleton crew that's scheduled too thin, and people wonder why customer service is bad....

>fuck walmart, hope your company burns
I hope not as this job is literally the only thing I have in life.

Good god, now i understand the expression "a fucking leaf" you guys are experts on bantz

Good post and good doubles. You've redeemed yourself leaf.

So I still gotta flesh out "the problem." It's big, which is why very few get it and most screech "less talk more solve, asshole." They don't understand so they want it to just go away, but I digress (kind of, they are the product of liberalization and low int rolls in the gene pool, and one begets the other, but again I digress).

"The Problem" I keep referring to is that we have people with 4 year degrees working at mcdonalds, and not as at least a manager or corporate. We have them working the front lines, next to 40 and 70 year olds handing burgers to their kids' kids' peers.

So, in our ideal capitalism (since that's the point, get to the ideal), you should have almost solely 14-22 year olds working mcdonalds-tier. Again, tying it to age, you should have 20-39 working corporate tier, and for a gray area, 29-59 as high-corporate/shareholders, all earning their experience or education to suit their needs to retain/ascend the heirarchy.

If you have instead 16-60 mcdonalds-tier, and now have fry schools, you know you're well off the path.

I'm not even saying the old must be strong, or even that there shouldn't eventually be a saturation of degree. It should, however, be proportionate to age. You shouldn't see an 18 year old with a doctorates, likewise a 60 year old funneled through to nothing but Social Security is inane.

Yes, education should be saturated, proportionate to the economy, if you want a small, neat sentence that a socialist or low-int roll wouldn't understand. We only have a saturation of experience at the low-levels, however, with a hyper-saturation of education as well, which would do NOTHING to fix this.

So now, finally, I'll get to the point. And even

>for free

why the tax payer of course
after all they have endless pockets

And you're literally autistic and bring semantics into somebody elses argument for no reason other than to be semantic.

Food Trucks

The bar to entry is a lot lower.

Because 4 years of extra high school doesn't accomplish anything

Not really viable in Aus. You need a lot of permits and so on.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? The point is that costs of a college education have risen in the 1000%'s, simply because too many people profit from it.

>"I called him a cuck, that means I smarter!"

>Government guarantees payment for every student
>Colleges realize this is essentially a blank check
>Colleges raise tuition prices to whatever they feel is 'appropriate'
>Government notices it has less money to fund other programs
>Government raises taxes

So it all boils down to whether or not you want to pay more in taxes. In the end, you're not getting a 'free' college education because you are paying for it in increments down the road not only for yourself, as it is like currently, but for everyone else. And if most people choose to study a field that isn't lucrative and don't end up paying their fair share into the system, that burden goes to those that did.

All in all, it's just another scam by the federal government to enlarge itself by justifying massive increases in taxation.

>19,000,000,000,000 in debt
>anything is free
but i guess you would known that if you didn't have to pay for college. or maybe you could just study instead of being stupid.

still less capital intensive than a brick and mortar restaurant.

...

I'm neither for nor against, unless it's going to raise my taxes I really don't care. I'm just saying before you go to college consider what I said perhaps consider ingesting in your own business venture instead of a piece of paper saying you were babysat for four years.

liberals are right of center laissez faire capitalists. they won't allow for everyone to be educated because it would change the economy

>colleges raise tuition prices

hmm... maybe capitalism is shit if you turn every institution in to a business of which the goal is to screw everyone over?! :)

...

hey high schooler, i know you think you deserve a free college education even though you're not talented enough to get a scholarship but here's what happens when everyone has free college:
>4 year degree become standard prerequisite for all entry level jobs
>since everyone searching for jobs has a free college degree, graduate degrees and or certifications become necessary to be a competitive candidate
>the companies begin to require even more education and unpaid experience before they commit to the risk associated with investing resources in the development of new employees

absolute retard

So how would you solve this large experience and education curve at the low levels?

First what you have to do is nix the problem, and the symptom would eventually follow, then you treat the symptom.

So basically, what you need to do is restart that old work+school or school+work-context economic lifecycle.

The easiest thing would be a work-program starting at even the most elementary of levels. That doesn't mean coal mining at 6 years old, it means practically applying the citizen's education every day they are in the public education system.

How do you do this? It's the same way you teach. You have to interest the person. Many auto mechanics would be dropouts, many surgeons would have no end of loathing for sitting not using their hands. Many professional videogame/sport casters would be the loud-mouths that don't stow it, and so forth. Turn that energy into passion, and grow it into drive. It's very, very simple. You interest someone until they've tried a million things and saw what stuck. They get an amazing education (and experience gain) and specialize into high level work. The low-level work is in turn handled cheaply by children, because that's all the intellect and maturity level required.

It's intuitive as all get out, and I dare anyone to improve it by telling me I'm wrong. This kind of opening is flexible - you can make education free by having someone pay for it with working, thus tax dollars fed into education are incredibly low yet they're still lavishly funded, you could have that work go directly into the students' pockets (and circumvent the parents or assist them, for whatever reason you like), there's tons of things possible with that, but this is the smart first step.

Please, refute this, make my solution even better.

(bonus: back it with logic and I'll even give you the most limited edition rare pepe I made myself, the hacker known as Cred Forums has never even seen it)

Football and basketball are the only things that are profitable and that's with only the major conference schools. The other 50 sports don't bring in a dime of profit

>babby's first shitpost rager

You never learned how capitalism in terms of education works.

No. Pol people would like to keep what they earn. Not all of us go to college to do womyn studies or pepe studies, and none of us thinks subsidizing your lazy ass is a good idea. College is expensive because the state gives guarantees to them for profits. If they had to compete against each other, tuition fees would plummet. You have fallen for the college lobby in their attempt to squeeze more money out of the taxpayer, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Major in Philosophy all you want leaf, just don't go around crying that you're broke and have to move back in with mommy and daddy.