So what does Cred Forums think about vegans?

The definition of angry white males.

Veganism is a dietary choice made by individuals who rarey, if ever, try to "force" others into it, nor do most attempt to even "shame" others - certainly not a personal level.

They're people who believe their moral decision is the right one and encourage others to do the same.

Yet here you are buttravaged over them existing.

I've literally never met a vegan.

I have no problem with them eating the things they want.
The problem is when they consider themselves in a moral higher ground to judge others.

>where are you getting the stuff you need to be healthy? eating pills your whole life?

well it seems to work for some people. but I don't want ot force anyone to do such and it wouldn't be like "tomorrow no meat, k?".

>watch VICE's episode about water crisis.

if thats the case, then we should eat even less meat. I think you underestimate how many resources does the meat industry require.

Mah morals, fuck off faggot and stop pretending your precious diet is important to anyone other than you. Don't you have friends to lose or a restaurant menu to complain about.

cancerous trend just like sjwism/feminism/numales etc

youtube.com/watch?v=uZDsSnpYZrw

here is some more info on how much does yout burger actually costs.

sauce?

I live in Melbourne. There are HUNDREDS of vegan restaurants, why would I ever need to complain? Why would a vegan complain at all about restaurants serving non-vegan foods when practically ever vegan is well aware of the scale of meat consumption?

These are all straw men arguments because you fear the idea of someone taking away a source of pleasure. Like a baby and its dummy.

I nearly broke VeganGains' hand once. Crushed it like a taco during a handshake. Just wanted to make sure that that cuck really was a pussy weakling, and I was right. He tried to laugh it off. I haven ever seen a more pathetic person.

All Vegans are like this. Weakness is bred in their bones.

t. Neckbearded turbovirgin weebshit

Like most things it's fine if you aren't obnoxious about it. My gfs sister is vegan, she just does her thing and doesn't push it on anyone else. She even cooks the family great non vegan desserts and shit.

Fine.
Explain to me why plants are less important forms of life than cows?

I'll grant you the US meat production is fucked up by growing veg like corn and feeding it to cattle (which as been shown to be bad for them)

Meanwhile over here in Europe we actually feed them grass which is watered a lot by rain. It literally grows from the floor without humans having to do shit.

As i see it, meat consumption from free range grass eating cattle is leagues better and not environmentally destructive.

The animals they are trying to 'save' only exist by the grace of the meat industry anyway.

According to common sense and all the evidence we have, plants lack sentience to the degree that they'd meaningfully experience pain in the way that humans or animals do.

Virtue signalling

Every last "vegan" and "vegetarian" I've known would eat meat anyway when relaxing around people.

Why is sentience relevant to how valuable a life is? Why is pain important? Are you saying because plants don't feel pain in the same way they have no right to life? What an odd argument.

This.

You're clearly being facetious, is this something that you're proud of?

The issue isn't the inherent value of "a life" because the expression "a life" isn't meaningful when talking about plants. We use "a life" to refer to individual organisms with sentience at the very least.

Pain is important to any moral question. If it's not, then there's nothing wrong with me mowing little children down with a chainsaw.

No, plants don't have a 'right to life' in any meaningful sense because the very concept of a "right to life" has a moral context in turn, the issue is that humans and (to some) sentient beings in general have value because of specific attributes that simply aren't present in plants.

If this is meant to point out a flaw in their reasoning, it makes no sense.

You aren't "graced" by existing alone. Existence in itself has nothing to do with being happy. I don't see what's wrong with them stating that they're saving animals by preventing them from existing under such conditions.

It's fun to ridicule them, but as tempting as it may be, we fail when we try to argue that their diet is morally or ethically not good.

Someone said in an old thread that veganism is an illuminati cleansing ritual can someone confirm

I don't disagree with you entirely, but I guess most of the are doing it because it's the next "progressive thing. But maybe this is just bait, in that case, fuck you.

Vegans that do it for cardiovascular reasons are based. The diet really does cut out most types of cancer and heart disease/stroke indicators.

All other vegans are pussy libs.

Idiots who willingly suffer dietary induced brain damage for stupid morals that can't be attained in modern society.

Also they are self righteous moralists and piss everyone off and should be removed.

Because omnivores don't ever have any health issues caused by their diets?

>We use "a life" to refer to individual organisms with sentience at the very least.

If they found bacteria on Mars you can be damned sure that would be considered life on Mars.

Try dating one. It's hell.

KEK, not being able to appreciate the encompassing nutritional value of the modern Burger.

Omnivores don't willingly strip proteins, vitamins and nutrients needed to survive and which the lack of produces brain damage.

If vegan's don't do that they rely on supplements proving it's a failed diet.

A vague, loosely associated increase in disease that's probably negated with exercise and quality meats as opposed to KFC is much preferable to brain damage from malnutrition.

Actually, I am genuinely curious about the types of views you're espousing and why you feel the need to force them on others. Your petty little attacks are wasted, stick to the arguments please.
You have absolutely no right at all to decide which forms of life have more value. Humans do this according to which forms of life have the most similar qualities to ones we possess, kill a gorilla and everyone goes 'cough' bananas, kill a rat no one really cares, rip a branch off a tree for fun and it's kind of weird, kill a weed and it's a 'public' service. All you are doing is cherry picking which life forms you think deserve protection according to how useful you think they are 'to you' and whether or not they complain in a similar fashion to how you would when you murder them. Sorry buddy, nature is a benevolent entity, it just is and does what it needs to, you just enjoy sticking your own stamp on how you feel it should function. Should a lion be vegan?

Typo, nature 'isn't' benevolent.

It's healthy, good for the planet and the animals so what's not to like? Don't be so insecure

Because there were too many people pretending to be a demisexual genderfluid panther.

Hipsters needed a more niche bandwagon to jump on.

Its completely stupid also they only care about cute animals I can bet you that nearly any vegan you talk to eats honey.

I've been vegetarian for 4 years vegan for 1.
Just recently started eating meat again.

I went veggie for the environment at first, then for ethics. Now I realize co2 might not be that bad after all and why does a cow matter more than me? Fuck animals lmao

If it's healthy why can't infants live on a vegan diet?

>Omnivores don't willingly strip proteins, vitamins and nutrients needed to survive and which the lack of produces brain damage.

Literally the ONLY valuable things you're getting from meat, that aren't in vegan foods - are higher protein density per gram of food, and a couple of minerals (like iron).

That higher density of protein is an issue to something, because it means eating slightly more - but every nutritional organisation in the world is in agreement that the average person needs to be consuming vastly more fibre, not protein. In other words - the vegan alternative is nutritionally better.

As for the minerals, there's debate over this, but the growing consensus is that the iron found in meat is if anything a BAD thing. Again, most nutritional organisations are increasingly saying this.

So the only major differences put the vegan diet at an advantage, and that's BEFORE we consider the vast number of nutrients that are found in vegan foods that aren't found in meat. The water-soluble vitamins in vegan foods are vastly more important than the basic minerals that most vegans can easily get anyway.

>If vegan's don't do that they rely on supplements proving it's a failed diet.

The average person takes supplements. Something like 90% of people (omnis) are taking supplements. The WAY meat is produced and delivered to most omins is HIGHLY artificial. The vegan diet is considerably more natural.

You think vegans are crazy? Take a look at fruitarianism:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

Some of these idiots even wait for fruits to fall down on their own so they can eat them.

I don't normally think about them. But now when you ask, can tell you they are shit tier people. Sun gazers are top tier. Beat that vegans!

>A vague, loosely associated increase in disease that's probably negated with exercise and quality meats as opposed to KFC is much preferable to brain damage from malnutrition.

Literally MOST deaths are caused ultimately by diet, in a very large number of cases - almost directly. Look at the issues caused by cholesterol alone, the deaths caused by that. There is NO cholesterol in plant foods.

Formula for a good healthy diet:
- A bit of everything, not too much of anything.

You'll notice on how studies that support vegan diets never compare against a good balanced diet as control.

The control group always tends to be the american meat heavy diet with little vegetables and fruit.

>not environmentally destructive

But you need to clear land and tree's to have more cows. That's where a lot of the Amazon has been going.

I thought it said futarianism
Grand disappointment.

Horrible people. I work in an arabian restaurant and we have a lot of vegan options. Today a family of brits came and they all ordered the vegan options. Only the kid ordered beef. Then his dad looks at him and says " Would it be too much to ask to take something vegan when we go to a restaurant?" Gave that poor kid more meat then there's in a regular portion. How can parents do that to their children.

>What is B12

>The average person takes supplements. Something like 90% of people (omnis) are taking supplements. The WAY meat is produced and delivered to most omins is HIGHLY artificial. The vegan diet is considerably more natural.

You do realize that there is such a thing as knowing the Farmer and the Butcher from whom you buy meat?

Processed food of any kind is bad, it's just that meat is more prevalent. And they might take 1 supplement not an array of them.

>Pain is important to any moral question. If it's not, then there's nothing wrong with me mowing little children down with a chainsaw.

But it would be okay to you to kill them by CO2 suffocation in their sleep, it seems. No pain involved.

Redpilled

>You have absolutely no right at all to decide which forms of life have more value. Humans do this according to which forms of life have the most similar qualities to ones we possess...

We're discussing morality here, though. Which means we're discussing what behaviours are desirable. Not what 'happens'. Yes, humans kill animals, they kill other humans - they kill some forms of animal, and some types of humans more often than others. This doesn't make it right.

The vegan position is simple - most vegans want to act in ways that minimise violence, harm, and suffering to others. If there's one good rule for human behaviour, it's this! If you disagree, then you're basically denying the value of morality whatsoever, in which case there's no point in anyone discussing literally anything with you. Vegans recognise the realities of lie - that they aren't in control of much, that their actions are limited, that they still have an impact ecologically, etc - they're just saying "let's try to do things better".

Depends on who you meet.
Most will tell you that they're vegan the instant you meet them, then they'll say eating meat is bad for the environment.

I tried it for a year to lose some weight.
Worked, then i stopped and lived my life again.

I suspected you would dodge replying to me, your so called ethics and morals are nothing but a badly designed charade to help give you an ill founded sense of moral superiority. Vegans are trash, they are just a bunch of privileged white middle class hipsters who are desperate to appear new age. Go try peddle your shitty ethics in the third world to the starving, see how that works out.

That also applies for farms to grow vegetables.

My statement originally meant about natural green fields with plenty of grass (ton of those here in europe), having cattle eating it won't cause damage. Farming though, always tends to cause damage to the soil over time.

The leading cause of forest destruction is human expansion (for cities & farming)

The future of environmentally friendly farming is vertical indoor farms.

And we (westerners) need to reduce our meat consumption too

Meme diet
Keto is a better meme since you get to claim you're offsetting their lack of eating animal products

False altruism.

I'm glad people subject themselves to vegan diets so that society can learn about it, but in a SHTF scenario, those that can gain nutrition through any source will survive.

>What is B12

I have an omnivorous relative who's got a relatively common condition called 'pernicious aenemia', which means he can't absorb B12 through diet. So he goes to a doctor and gets shots. This COULD be said to be "highly artificial", but so is fucking talking on the internet to me! Everything we do is 'artificial', and when it comes to diet - taking a B12 pill literally once a week (yes, you can do that), is incredible simple and easy - and is certainly no more artificial than consuming meat. Yes, even if you raised and butchered the animal yourself, or hunted it in the wild - your consumption of that animal and your entire life is part of systems of "artificiality". Do you think farmers don't use technology to raise those animals? Do you think they don't use vaccinations on their animals? Get real.

That is actually close to my point. I also use 'grace' as a figure of speech, sorry if it was inappropriate. Vegans make it seem like they are preventing murder of animals, when in fact they prevent some animals from being born.
While the end result is the same, since an animal isn't slaughtered for their benefit, the moral or ethical implication is different.

t. vegan fagert

>a bit of everything, not too much of anything
>processed food of any kind of bad

Fucking these

I limit my intake of crap, which has had a significant impact on my health.

I grow my own veggies in my garden and eat mostly venison and other lean meats. Every now an then I'll have something fatty in the crock pot. It is not hard to limit your impact on the environment and still eat well.

>I suspected you would dodge replying to me

But I responded to you. Do you have a problem with how I responded? Did I fail to address something?

Every major, respected nutritional\dietary organisation on Earth agrees that an adequately planned vegan diet meets nutritional needs, and can and is in most cases significantly HEALTHIER.

And most people eat trash and most people are overweight. These are always the populations vegan studies compare to. If you think a 300 person eating fast food three times a day has the same diet than a fit person who eats home cooked meals you are delusional. Dietary cholesterol is not blood cholesterol, by the way.

One more time. You're simply dictating that animals of a certain type are more important than other forms of life. Your hierarchy is based on what is most similar or useful to you.you don't have a moral leg to stand on.

>whole plant foods
>complex diet
All of my wat

...

Sorry. I posted that when you hadn't yet replied but had responded to posts made after mine. My mistake.

This is by far the weakest argument I've ever seen in one of these discussions.

Nice ramble and missing the point while also falling on a tangent with an anecdote.

> Yes, even if you raised and butchered the animal yourself, or hunted it in the wild - your consumption of that animal and your entire life is part of systems of "artificiality". Do you think farmers don't use technology to raise those animals? Do you think they don't use vaccinations on their animals? Get real.

Vaccines are just weakened viruses dumbass. Also what I meant by natural is not processed. My point still stands. And when it's in the wild it's not even vaccinated. What it ain't natural enough unless I catch it with my bare hands?

Okay, here we go:

>the current method of meat production in the first world is unethical and unsustainable
>it destroys ecosystems and is built around oil (a finite resource)
>the meat produced is also of low nutritional value and all the heavy metals and harmful substances are stored in the fat cells of animals (giving rise to the idea that fat is bad for you)
>grain in built on a similar oil-based agricultural model
>modern grain sucks ass for your body
>within 72 hours of milling, most of the nutritional benefit is lost and the oils turn rancid
>every bit of wheat you eat in the form of pasta, breads, cakes (even if you make them yourselves) is the grain equivalent of rotten tomatoes if you're purchasing flour
>vegetables and fruits available in grocery stores are a fucking joke. Next to no nutritional value as they were not picked at ripeness and shipped from across country/world

Is there hope? Kinda.

>pasture raised meat (grass fed beef, omnivore chickens, etc) has more nutritional value and a higher omega-3 to omega 6 ratio
>local, freshly milled grains (good luck ever finding this) taste better and have more nutritional value
>local vegetables and fruits are picked at peak ripeness more maximum nutrition.

The trick here is small scale, great soil (more nutrients in the soil, more in the food), and without the addition of -cides. A balanced diet is always great.

In the mean time, go paleo. Seriously. Grains and sugars are so much worse for your body than anything else in the store. Meat and vegetables do not cause gut inflammation or diabetes. Vegans who do it for health reasons aren't entirely wrong - so long as they minimize grain.

...

Holy shit that looks fucking awful. Are you memeing?

It's somewhat admirable but will never see enough adoption to ever make an impact. What will solve the meat issue that veganism tries to address will be synthetic meat.

> All these people not vegans or at the very least vegetarian

I thought Cred Forums was a christian board? Or was it just a ruse all along and you're just LARPing?

Vegetarianism I understand, however it's a pain in the arse getting enough complete proteins and aminos without meat.

Veganism is pants on head fucking retarded. It's a diet that cuts out a lot of necessary nutrients we depend on. There's a reason vegans are universally frail.

You can be a Christian and still eat meat.

Even Jesus ate fish.

You have not the faintest fucking clue what you're talking about. I doubt you've ever even seen a farm or ranch in your entire stupid life

Agree with everything except paleo. Paleo is pants on head retarded.

Why do vegans try to copy meat based foods? Do they miss it?

>try this vegan burger, with vegan cheese and vegan egg!
>it tastes just as good as real food!
>i swear i don't hate my life and diet

It doesn't. It has the texture of ground rubber and tastes awful. If you are going to have a diet that cuts out all animal products, don't try to copy food that requre them.

If you follow the argument back, I wasn't making any wide-ranging claims about the superiority of the vegan diet, or comparing upper-middle class vegans to overweight trash-eating people. I was responding to the claim that vegans are "Idiots who willingly suffer dietary induced brain damage". The vegan diet simply doesn't work like that.

Ok, so murder of human beings is acceptable in your worldview? Oh no, well why not?

The anecdote is important, beacuse you're claiming that taking B12 pills (this is basically the only thing a vegan really needs to take - they might be assisted by calcium pills and omega 3's [but these are things that even most omnis could use]) is something 'artificial', when the average diet of an omnivore is CONSIDERABLY artificial. The production of meat - even in the most "home grown" setting, is an incredibly artificial process... let alone the processes involved in getting meat to the door of the average omni, treated with chemicals, wrapped in plastic, etc.

>So what does Cred Forums think about vegans?
Final redpill

>Why is it suddenly so popular?
Because industrial animal agriculture is disgusting.

And it's much easier to follow a Vegan diet now that retailers have figured out that Vegan foods are one of the fastest growing segments of the food industry.

>the only problem I have with vegans is you know they are vegans within 5 minutes of meeting one
Honestly when I meet someone most of the time I don't tell them I'm Vegan because society is usually far more judgemental against Vegans than Vegans are towards flesheaters.

>what if jar jar bibks was an ent? #projectmurphy

They're transition foods for people who see the benefits of a plant-based diet, but are scared of change.

>The anecdote is important, beacuse you're claiming that taking B12 pills (this is basically the only thing a vegan really needs to take - they might be assisted by calcium pills and omega 3's [but these are things that even most omnis could use]) is something 'artificial', when the average diet of an omnivore is CONSIDERABLY artificial.
>Average diet

You mean plebs without a diet just eating what they can.

Another point about B12 is that babies really need that vitamin along with other things. If the mother is vegan her milk will not contain the required vitamins and other nutrients required for the SURVIVAL of the child let alone full development, as multiple cases of child death have shown and Italy wanting to ban parents from giving kids a vegan diet.

And I never made the point that vegan diet is unnatural but dangerous and stupid. In fact I never made an appeal to nature.

>The production of meat - even in the most "home grown" setting, is an incredibly artificial process... let alone the processes involved in getting meat to the door of the average omni, treated with chemicals, wrapped in plastic, etc.

The meat I eat is not treated with chemicals and it's not wrapped in plastic, or anything m8.

This is a lame argument. Firstly, I'm a vegan. Like most vegans, I was at one time a meat-eater, so at one time I enjoyed the taste of animal foods. Just because I become a vegan, doesn't mean that my sense of taste or appetite suddenly changes. There would be nothing morally wrong with a vegan "craving" or "missing" non-vegan foods.

Secondly, "burgers" and things like that are in part popular because they're easy to make and easy to eat, so replicating that is something that makes life easier for vegans. "Burgers" are basically bread with filling - something that isn't limited to meat.

Third, many vegans are aware that omnis are like certain foods - so they're trying to produce substitutes. In most cases I think this fails - most vegan 'meats' and 'cheeses' I've had have been terrible, but some substitutions work and I don't see a problem with this.

Instead of asserting that I am wrong, can you tell me why?

It's helped me out tremendously. I feel amazing when I'm on the diet and I lose weight very easily. You're welcome to your opinion, but I would recommend you try it for yourself.

The problem with this outlook is you are looking at nutrition through a broken lense. 10 years ago eggs were bad, now good. 0 fat diets were a thing, now fat is good. Sugars and gluten are the new bogeymen. It comes down to knowing how to prepare food, when to eat (seasonally), and eating only according to capacity.

Once this paleo shut dies down there will be some other diet fad for the 'science' junky crossfit fags to follow.

>the production of meat - even in the most "home grown" setting, is an incredibly artificial process

Have you ever butchered an animal? It sounds like you haven't.

Under what circumstances? Should one person be killed if it saves many? Should killing for fun be fine? How about if I want someone's heater because it's better than mine? What if my family is freezing and he has two months to live and is a notorious pedofag? If someone lined up a bunch of children in front of you then handed you a guy and insisted that if you didn't pick one and shoot them they would murder all of them, what would you do? How would you decide?
The very fact you asked that suggests you don't have much experience with morals or ethics at all.

Mediterranean diet, which has meat and fish, is fine and assures you a long life, plus we are omnivorous by nature.

I don't care about killing animals if it's necessary for our children to have roch diets and a healthy growth. I am not in favour of killing animals for fun, absolutely nigger tier of fun.

Also, most vegetarians/vegans are insufferable. My aunt always reprehended my mother for giving me meat. She ended up with chronical intestinal problem because of vegetarianism.

implying your filthy african fruits aren't wrapped in plastic, LMAO

Paleo is working for you because you are not combining proteins and carbs.

*gun not guy. Tablet shit posting fails.

i know two, they only brought it up by themselves once or twice in... 5 years or so.
both of them are not the "be vegan or i will eat you" type, so there's nothing inherently wrong with veganism/vegans, it just attracts a lot of selfrighteous jerks (though i think it isn't the healthiest of lifestyles)

>Firstly, I'm a vegan

You just had to say it?

They can, human mothers' breastmilk is vegan.

>You mean plebs without a diet just eating what they can.

Well that's convenient. So we're not comparing averages now, but what the 'elite' of omnis eat vs the vegan diet.

>Another point about B12 is that babies really need that vitamin along with other things...

B12 is important, but mostly over the long term. You can go literally decades without B12 without an issue. The damage caused by lack of B12 is usually very long-term.

>If the mother is vegan her milk will not contain the required vitamins and other nutrients required for the SURVIVAL of the child let alone full development

This isn't really an issue. The HANDFUL of cherry-picked cases you can point to are parents who were GROSSLY irresponsible when it came to their diets, they happened to be vegans who weren't eating adequately. Thousands of children die every year as a result of lack of adequate nutrition, or neglect, or poor hygiene - this is an issue of parental responsibility, not diet.

>shown and Italy wanting to ban parents from giving kids a vegan diet.

But many times more deaths occur every year from food poisoning cases or choking... on animal products. You're far, far more likely to choke on animal products (in fact, interestingly - artificial products like hotdogs), or to get sick and die from them than vegan foods.

>If someone lined up a bunch of children in front of you then handed you a guy and insisted that if you didn't pick one and shoot them they would murder all of them, what would you do?
I would ask for a dice and kill by random. If I was denied that I'd shoot the ugliest kid.

The reason you should still go Vegan is because it's healthier, cleaner and your actions don't needlessly cause the pain and suffering of animals.

>Discussing vegan diet.
>Cannot point out that I'm a vegan or be accused of cruelly forcing my nazi diet on others.

>shoot the ugliest kid
This is actually a sound choice, as attractiveness is generally a sign of good health/genes.

It produces profit for the people who are in on this.

Your actions are needlessly causing me pain and suffering right now. Why the ugly one?

Do vegans realize that being a farm animal is helpful for the surviving and proliferation of their species?

It's a mutal benefit for humans and animals.

Do they realize that if everybody turned vegan pigs, cows and chikens would be all slaughtered since farmers couldn't sustain them?

youtube.com/watch?v=1BUL78hbkLA

a very good thing
one of the few good things in this day and age

...

>Well that's convenient. So we're not comparing averages now, but what the 'elite' of omnis eat vs the vegan diet.

Because it's stupid to compare the average pleb with someone that has a diet. Because even if that diet is bad said persons are trying the others are not. It's like comparing an Olympic runner's speed to those watching him run.

>B12 is important, but mostly over the long term. You can go literally decades without B12 without an issue. The damage caused by lack of B12 is usually very long-term.

Yes brain damage is long term.

>
This isn't really an issue. The HANDFUL of cherry-picked cases you can point to are parents who were GROSSLY irresponsible when it came to their diets, they happened to be vegans who weren't eating adequately. Thousands of children die every year as a result of lack of adequate nutrition, or neglect, or poor hygiene - this is an issue of parental responsibility, not diet.

And vegan diet's are not cases of parental irresponsibility?

>But many times more deaths occur every year from food poisoning cases or choking... on animal products. You're far, far more likely to choke on animal products (in fact, interestingly - artificial products like hotdogs), or to get sick and die from them than vegan foods.

So because other things kill you now vegan diets for infants though shown to produce deaths and malnutrition and as you said long term damage is no longer true?

Let me guess because more people a year get struck by lightning than killed by a terrorist, terrorism is not a problem?

Not to mention I already stated processed food is bad.

it's a sect even worse than Islam where people are brainwashed and it's literally animal feelings > humans. so total trash tier.

I am going to start my own social movement: plant lives matter. We will only eat food that isn't plants, eating food that ate plants is fine. Also we will have black jack and hookers.

I don't want to sound like a vegan - constantly defending my diet. But here I go:

There is nothing faddy about Paleo. The name implies it is an old diet. It is based around what is in season, what's fresh, and what gives energy. Refined carbohydrates and sugars are completely awful for you. The science is in line this time around, but it's not cyclical.

The whole "eggs are bad" and zero fat diets come from reductionist thinking. They would single out one nutrient or food and provide lame studies backing their claim. But if you look at how people eat in indigenous and historic cultures - paleo is at the core.

Paleo is nothing but the omission of refined foods. This does include grains, yes. Now do I think grains are inherently bad? No. If we had local mills making flour and baking products the same day the bread was milled it would not be as harmful for you. And in moderation - fine to eat.

>"Ba dum tss..."

Ways to get B12, eat your own shit or take substitutes.

Ethical Vegans who think it's ethical to go Vegan without looking after your own health are garbage. You literally need 3minutes to read up what you need additionally.

Every time a Vegan fails to take care of his/her health the media pounces on that and declares Vegan diets generally unhealthy.

Considering that the primary reason people go Vegan initially(switch to a plant based diet) is for health reasons, unhealthy Vegans are causing more damage to the Vegan cause than they are doing good.

GERMANY

YES

Modern food procts are the most nutient dense to ever exist because of superior technique and micronutrient enrichment.

>Them giant cow bells

What the fuck?

>Because it's stupid to compare the average pleb with someone that has a diet...

Let's make it clear. An adequately planned vegan diet is considered by most nutritional organisations to be nutritionally superior to an adequately planned omnivore diet. Now, because you have a superstitious, non-fact based belief that vegan diets are somehow significantly worse - let me point out again... that the only major different is that meat is protein-dense food and contains more minerals like iron and zinc. Those are pretty much the ONLY components of nutrition that are higher in meat, and this is important... those things are as best as we can tell BAD, or if not bad... not important to diet, whereas the things that you're missing out on by eating meat rather than vegan foods, those nutrients ARE important.

>So because other things kill you now vegan diets for infants though shown to produce deaths and malnutrition and as you said long term damage is no longer true?

Vegan diets are HEALTHIER and SAFER when adequately planned. The odd, EXTREMELY rare case, of extremely negligent parents who happen to be vegan - doesn't refute the fact that a child is considerable safer, and better taken care of nutritionally on an adequately planned vegan diet. Once again, THOUSANDS more children die every year even in western countries from nutritional problems caused by omni parents, but it gets no attention because it's the norm.

source on this? Do you really think adding a powdered nutrient to kraft mac n' cheese is the same as getting that same nutrient in the form our species has been eating since it came to be on this earth?

>Firstly, I'm a vegan.

I could tell by your other posts, and the fact you're going into drawn out detail about food you originally brought up implying it is a good substitute for an actual burger.

You've admitted it tastes terrible.

>"Burgers" are basically bread with filling

A hamburger, by definition, is two pieces of bread and beef. By definition it is limited to meat. Sandwich would be a more applicable term.

>easy to make and easy to eat

So is a salad. Greens and vegetables of your choice, bit of olive oil and vinegar, done.

>so they're trying to produce substitutes?

Why? What purpose does it serve? If you are advocating for a diet that cuts out all animal products wouldn't it be counterproductive to produce poor tasting products that the majority of people don't like.

If you are looking for easy to make and actually good there are plenty of vegan friendly, microwavable bean burritos. They don't taste like shit.

Part of the dumbing down of society
>Mean EQ for mammals is around 1, with carnivorans, cetaceans and primates above 1, and insectivores and herbivores below. This reflects two major trends. One is that brain matter is extremely costly in terms of energy needed to sustain it.[18] Animals which live on relatively nutrient poor diets (plants, insects) have relatively little energy to spare for a large brain, while animals living from energy-rich food (meat, fish, fruit) can grow larger brains.

Milling grains does not reduce their nutritional value, much less make them toxic. Yes, white grain is less good than whole grain, but that's where it ends. Eat the whole thing and don't just pick out the starch and it doesn't matter if it was made yesterday or a month ago

It's probably the ultimate dietary redpill, but I don't care.

I care more about the taste if meat than the life of millions animals. Kind of funny when you say it like that.

Anybody know where this 'animal life value' horseshit stemmed from? Vegans have way too much time on their hands and nothing better to do that they think mindless curs that have been bred for our benefit has "rights". Wvery human advancement is put to a halt because of bleeding heart retards. Can't wait till 2050 for more bleeding heart groups out for AI rights. Robotic rights and aug rights.

Do you think a mineral stops being a mineral because you put it in the food rather than put it in the ground for the plant to suck up?

>Your actions are needlessly causing me pain and suffering right now.
I highly doubt that your feels because of what I said is comparable to what animals endure when you pay people to exploit them because your taste buds prefer that.
>Why the ugly one?
My preferred choice is obviously to shoot one at random, but if I was denied that and had to use an arbitrary reason, attractiveness would be the arbitrary reason. As it correlates with income, reproductive ability, social standing etc.

I'm guessing I wouldn't get the time to interview each and everyone of them, if I got the time to do that I'd obviously shoot the most annoying kid.

>Let's make it clear. An adequately planned vegan diet is considered by most nutritional organisations to be nutritionally superior to an adequately planned omnivore diet. Now, because you have a superstitious, non-fact based belief that vegan diets are somehow significantly worse - let me point out again... that the only major different is that meat is protein-dense food and contains more minerals like iron and zinc. Those are pretty much the ONLY components of nutrition that are higher in meat, and this is important... those things are as best as we can tell BAD, or if not bad... not important to diet, whereas the things that you're missing out on by eating meat rather than vegan foods, those nutrients ARE important.

Nice wall of text but: Appeal to authority and numbers with no proof, proteins are not all the same and I already mentioned B12 but there are others.

>Vegan diets are HEALTHIER and SAFER when adequately planned. The odd, EXTREMELY rare case, of extremely negligent parents who happen to be vegan - doesn't refute the fact that a child is considerable safer, and better taken care of nutritionally on an adequately planned vegan diet. Once again, THOUSANDS more children die every year even in western countries from nutritional problems caused by omni parents, but it gets no attention because it's the norm.

Nice repeating yourself. But again those cases where caused by the diet, whom the parents chose. If the diet had not been vegan those cases would have not happened.

Do you understand that?

>You've admitted it tastes terrible.

Actually that burger from Grill'd is very good. It doesn't contain 'cheese substitutes' or 'meat subtitutes' - the 'pattie' is a vegan patty, I wouldn't consider that a meat substitute. Some meat subtitutes are good, btw. I'm from r9k and there's a variety of vegan chicken tendie that's rated as one of the best tendies even by meat-eaters.

>A hamburger, by definition..

You're really desperate to try and maintain this point. Guess what, it's a fucking bun with shit in between. We can play definitional games all you want - it's bread and vegetarian shit that tastes good and looks like a burger.

vegans are some of the most unhealthy fuckers i've ever seen

raw food is where its at

because he is ugly.
its mercykilling, really

I was friends with a vegan once. A group of us were trying to make dinner plans and this motherfucker has the nerve to make us all choose some place vegan friendly. Why should 6 of us have to cater to the desires of 1? It's not some food allergen where you can't eat meat. It's just that you don't WANT to.

We are no longer friends. Fuck vegans. Worthless people.

>Milling grains does not reduce their nutritional value, much less make them toxic.

When the grain is broken, the oils begin to oxidize. These oils are go rancid after 72 hours.

>However, the high content of polyunsaturated fatty acids makes the oil highly prone to oxidation. Thus, it can undergo transformations that may affect both its nutritional and organoleptic qualities.

scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0104-66322011000200008

>r9k
>melbourne
that explains fucking everything

>Nice wall of text but: Appeal to authority and numbers with no proof, proteins are not all the same and

Huh? Protein doesn't change. The amino acid profile might be slightly different, but this isn't a major issue with a varied diet.

>I already mentioned B12 but there are others.

Like what?

>Nice repeating yourself. But again those cases where caused by the diet, whom the parents chose. If the diet had not been vegan those cases would have not happened.

and if the diets of many THOUSANDS of children weren't meat-based, they wouldn't have choked to death, or died in sickening ways. This happens every year, but to use an exteme example - think of the children who had to suffer their brains practically melting away in their heads from Mad Cow disease because they ate meat.

Gay Jews meant to promote disunity and moral degeneration through relativism
Must be gassed

Did you just assume my feels user?

If they were 5 identical twins, who were completely the same I'd shoot the one on the left, because I'm left handed, which would mean I'd have to move my arm the least to shoot him.

No, but your body processes things differently depending on the form their in.

Apples have fructose and fiber. If you ate the same amount of fructose, you blood sugar would sky rocket. If you are the same amount of dry fiber, you would likely become constipated.

If you eat an apple, the fiber buffers the fructose and prevents your blood sugar from jumping up.

People don't eat nutrients, we eat food.

It looks like you're forgetting fish is a form of meat.
It uses even less water than land crops.
Not to mention they can't feel pain. You get protein and glorious omega 3.
Honestly I don't understand why vegans don't eat fish.
environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/56200

Why does it explain everything?

I've actually lived all over Australia.

you need to suplement some stuff and what not. vegetarian diet is not an easy one.

>Huh? Protein doesn't change. The amino acid profile might be slightly different, but this isn't a major issue with a varied diet.
>PROTEIN DOESN'T CHANGE

That stupidity plus being from R9K and an Auzzie validates the fact that you don't know jack.

>
and if the diets of many THOUSANDS of children weren't meat-based, they wouldn't have choked to death, or died in sickening ways. This happens every year, but to use an exteme example - think of the children who had to suffer their brains practically melting away in their heads from Mad Cow disease because they ate meat.
>Mad Cow disease
>A scare that has been proven worthless

Not to mention those diets where not diets but normies being normies and being shitheads as such. A better "omni" or better said human diet would have fixed that and the vegan problems.

And again just because one thing is bad doesn't mean the other is magically good.

ok serious question, looking at your filenames i cant help but ask
do you have autism?

1) How many pills do you have to take to keep up with that ideology?
2) How long have you been vegan?

Jew ploy to increase protein deficiency and malnourishment in white male population. Notice how everyone falling for the leafy jew is a white nu-male?

Im close to the goal of being Vegan, about 10% is meat and dairy products in my diet now, there's alot of meat replacements for Vegans out there that taste delicious.

The current farm food thats mass produced is fucked thanks to regulations, the mass scale of it all, overall health of the animals is shit, also alot of the meat you get isn't really meat at all.

If you want proper meat, go and hunt it, i think everyone should have the skill to hunt down and kill animals for their meat and other various bodyparts that could serve a purpose for survival, other then that, eat whole plant foods, rice, beans, berries and fruits etc.

also post rare pepe #64 please
ill trade

The only thing I hate baout vegans is how they try to shame and disgust you for eating meat. Like they use the word "flesh" like that's suppose to be a repulsive sounding word or something and try to push gore pics of animal cruelty on you. I have no problem with people thinking they're superior for their eating habits but don't try to use me as some kind of foot rest to make yourself feel good.

vegans are retarded. there is nothing more to add here. i am ok with you buying organic stuff, or not choosing to not eat meat because you simply don't like it but every pretentious piece of shit trying to tell me that i am destroying the planet by not being vegan should just kys

>'meat substitutes'
>vegan patty

Hate to break it to you, but your tendies are substitutes for meat. It is a meat product that you take the meat out of and replace it with a vegan friendly substitute.

You thinking it tastes good is null. Most people that eat them think they taste terrible.

>r9k

That explains the autism.

>You're really desperate to try and maintain that point

Nope. But you're it seems like you are desperate to hold on to meat based foods with substitutes. Which makes no fucking sense.

I'm not vegan.

I'm a vegetarian, so I dont mind.

Rice is refined, yet the most consumed refined grain in history. Are they all unhealthy?

The point of view I'm coming from is that everyone is unique, this includes dietary strengths and weaknesses based on genetics, race, what foods you were raised on, what your ancestors ate, etc. There cannot be "one" diet for everyone. I do fine with milk and cheese but lots of Asians do not, see my point? A lot of people's digestion is so bad that they cannot eat wheat, they call it gluten in tolerance now. Guess what? Science determined it's not real. It comes down to what an individual can handle. That is all.

Does paleo include omitting fruits that are not local? Because north American Indians or Europeans thousands of years ago wouldn't be eating oranges, right?

I'm all for veganism and vegetarianism, and I oppose meat for religious / metaphysical reasons, but meat is acceptable for certain people and in certain situations.

>alot of meat replacements
I dont know anything about that so can you give some examples?

2 kinds of vegans:

>skinny: attractive if women since they barely need any calories/protein to function anyways, faggot twink if men
>fat: eats chips and oreos all day

I think vegans will team up with environmentalists and media jews to tax meat and drive up the cost like they do alcohol and cigarettes

there is no replacement for creatine. you'll have to take supplements if you want it without eating meat

>That stupidity...

You didn't respond to my question. You can go to any nutritional website and see the protein values of vegan foods. If it says "10g protein", it means 10g of protein - the amino acid profile may be different, but these numbers are approximated - so "10g" of meat protein is essentially the same as "10g" of protein from a vegan source. Again, meat's main nutritional benefit is the massive concentration of protein per weight - but protein is not the main consideration for most diets, there are far more important factors. Vegans get adequate protein.

>Mad Cow disease
>A scare that has been proven worthless

Children literally died from it. Just as many children die every year from food poisoning and choking on animal products. In those cases, the parents were just feeding their kids animal-products, they weren't even extremely negligent - but their kids ended up dying. The vegan diet is superior with less risk... unless you're a completely negligent parent, in which case if you were omni you'd fuck things up for your kids.

I was just curious since i have no idea about substitutes, im against veganism in general

So arguments for veganism according from what i have read here are:
>ecology
>health
>moral bullshit

did i miss something?

paleo is often an improvement because what it's compared to is often so bad. the irony is that the benefits come from eating more plant foods. and also from NOT eating more animal products than before.
after 3:45 in the video nutritionfacts.org/video/whats-the-natural-human-diet/

but the idea many people have of paleo is wrong. it just happens to include some things that aren't wrong. whole foods plant-pased is the best way.

I think you meant to direct that to me.

>1) How many pills do you have to take to keep up with that ideology?

I take a B12 sublingual once a week (this is the most essential for vegans).
I take Opti3 Omega 3 pills every day (most omnis could use Omega3 supplementation themselves).
I take a multivitamin, too.

>2) How long have you been vegan?

6 years.

...

>You didn't respond to my question. You can go to any nutritional website and see the protein values of vegan foods. If it says "10g protein", it means 10g of protein - the amino acid profile may be different, but these numbers are approximated - so "10g" of meat protein is essentially the same as "10g" of protein from a vegan source. Again, meat's main nutritional benefit is the massive concentration of protein per weight - but protein is not the main consideration for most diets, there are far more important factors. Vegans get adequate protein.

Go to any nutritionist worth his salt and he will tell you that protein is not all the same. The simple thing on packaging or dietary recommendation is simplified to the point of being useless.

>Children literally died from it. Just as many children die every year from food poisoning and choking on animal products. In those cases, the parents were just feeding their kids animal-products, they weren't even extremely negligent - but their kids ended up dying. The vegan diet is superior with less risk... unless you're a completely negligent parent, in which case if you were omni you'd fuck things up for your kids.

You are repeating yourself again and missing my point. I will just give up.

Like brands? wont help you since the only ones i know are Norwegian ones, but look up pea protein or soy protein alternatives in your food markets.

Alternatively try to make some yourself, look up blackbean meat replacement or eggplant crunch as examples.

I got some soy meat the other week that i served to my friends, one half was chicken other was soy meat, they preferred the soy meat, comes down to who makes it and its quality, all i can say it was damn delicious and put the chicken to shame.

what about brain developement? you know cooked meat is the reason our brains are this "big" in terms of intelligence? I understand not liking the methods of production for the everyday meat you buy at the store. That's what is unhealthy about it, not the meat itself. Eating organic meat in reasonable amount is a lot smarter than being vegan.

Not even a rare, but ok.

Soy gives you tets.

If you ate a lump of wet fiber impregnated with the same amount of sugar, the difference in metabolic effect would be negligable.

>Why is it suddenly so popular?

people want to gain the magical god like powers described by Hermes Trismegistus in the Asclepius

I like you, and nice dubs.

On the first point, rice hasn't been refined for most of human history. Most cultures on began refining it (stripping the hull) within in the past 100 years. Prior to this, most cultures ate exclusively brown rice, which is basically just a seed.

The ancestral diet makes sense, but It comes more from people staying in one place. This doesn't happen anymore. I will say that I think paleo applies to 99% of the human race. And if you allergic to something like lactose (most of Asia) - don't eat it. You can still have a paleo diet without dairy (most omit it anyway).

>Does paleo include omitting fruits that are not local?

Paleo is a very broad term and some people cover this, some don't. As long as it can be grown locally, it's fine. If it can't, it should be minimized.

Nothing is indigenous anymore. Humans have been trotting the globe and bringing their plants and animals with them for too long to turn this bull around. But the fact remains that most humans (specific dietary conditions apply) benefit from a paleo diet.

>Soy tits
There's like 3 medical articles about that, and it was discovered that those people basically only drank soy milk all day long for years, like 3\4 gallon per day.

So dont live on soy milk, its perfectly fine to have a small amount once in a while.

not always

>So what does Cred Forums think about vegans?

vegans represent some of humanity's greatest leaders and thinkers, men like Adolph Hitler, Confucius and Ghandi

Thanks.
No go then soy is expensive here, much cheaper to buy chicken. I was curious if there was something good and cheaper than meat so i can be cheap lol

If cows didn't want to be eaten then why are they so delicious? My logic is undeniable, save the plants, eat a cow today!

thanks

>what about brain developement? you know cooked meat is the reason our brains are this "big" in terms of intelligence?

Nobody can conclusively say that, that's not an 'accepted' position. It's a theory that's been put forward. It's entirely possible that eating meat played a role in human's evolving bigger brains, I don't know. However, most of our closest primate relatives are ESSENTIALLY vegan, in that most of their diets are plant-based. They're opportunistic omnivores - but with a preference for vegan foods. Most of them are highly intelligent.

Whatever the case was historically, we know that you TODAY for the vast majority of people - it's easy to eat vegan and get all your nutritional needs met, which includes needs for maintaining your brain. Your brain will not atrophy because of lack of protein from flesh-meats. The main danger to your brain on a vegan diet comes from lack of B12, which most of our relatives obtained from insects.

Eh I prefer beans anyway. Just tastes better to me.

Depends on where you live as always when it comes to food prices.

Most book and experts advocate eating more vegetables and fruits - at least half the plate. I'm not disagreeing with this and I have said nothing to the equivalent that it should be a mostly meat diet.

But if you admit that grain and sugar is bad for you, where will you get the necessary proteins and calories from if not meats and fat?

To each their own, stay healthy my friend.

I wonder how many meat eaters have died climbing that mountain.....

You're missing the point. Wet lumps of sugar fiber aren't laying around in the wild - plants and animals are.

Naw any increase in esgoenic substance harm men. Particularly during puberty.

meat is not necessarily bad if eaten in moderation like everything else. Stop putting corn starch and all other sugars in your food. Move from your pc and take a walk every day. Eat fish and eat your veggies. Thats all no need for supplements, extreme diets like veganism or anything. Simple moderation.

oh that flag... everytime i see it i wonder why i didn't already blocked it.

Phytoestrogens have practically no effect on male testosterone. It has plenty of POSITIVE effects on women's estrogen levels - modulating them which has been shown to sigificantly reduce rates of breast cancer. Perhaps the US wouldn't be such an exporter of shrill feminist bullshit if veganism were more common.

Male vegans has slightly elevated levels of blood Testosterone. Babies of vegan mothers also have slightly larger penises.

That existing non-human primates eat little meat does not mean the same was true for early or prehumans. Our very low stomache ph, for example, suggests that animal tissue cobsumption was more important in our evolutionary history than you think.

Whether something is wild doesn't matter. Physical and chemical composition matters

That is absolutely wrong. It is a fact and has been known for long now that cooked meat is a primary factor in brain developement. Let's take a look at those primates. Take gorillas for example. They are among the "dumbest" animals there are and they usually don't eat any meat. Also I am not talking about if we need meat to survive right now or not. I am talking about evolution or devolution. The only reason not to eat meat is because of the industry fucking up everything. No one should eat those sick animals that have been pumped with meds and everything. I am completely on the vegans side here, but I also think we shouldn't completely stop eating meat.

I'd also like to add that calling those primates highly intelligent compared to humans is pretty much the dumbest thing I have read all day. And that's a bad thing when you consider this post has been made on Cred Forums

i don't eat meat because I really like animals. I don't care if it makes me a faggot. I also get m eggs from a neighbor who has chickens, who I know takes care of his chickens, what they eat, etc.

>That existing non-human primates eat little meat does not mean the same was true for early or prehumans.

I didn't claim it did. I mentioned the primates because relative to other animals they're still highly intelligent.

>Our very low stomache ph, for example, suggests that animal tissue cobsumption was more important in our evolutionary history than you think.

Our digestive systems are adapted to primarily vegan-based diets, but we could best be classified - along with most of our closest primate relatives - as 'opportunistic omnivores', we CAN consume meat - but our entire digestive system "assumes" in a sense a high proportion of plant matter.

Go back to eating burgers then, look at the Chinese and their health statistics, their diet is rich in soy based foods and their cancer and health rates are significantly lower then any other.

I support veganism from an ethical perspective as long as it's ecologically sound and not just soya and palm oil.

Unfortunately I just love eating meat so much, and when I've tried to go vegetarian (I've tried a few times) I feel physically terrible.

Lab grown meat will settle this debate once and for all anyway.

Vegans are ok.
Its ok for someone to have an alternative lifestyle.

>That is absolutely wrong. It is a fact and has been known for long now that cooked meat is a primary factor in brain developement.

If this is a fact, then you won't have any trouble providing some very authoritative sources saying that this is an established fact. Go ahead.

>cooked meat is a primary factor in brain developement

you meant to say easily absorbed protein

Because life is too easy. They're just playing on hard mode at this point

It only makes sense from ethical perspective if you apply human values to animals which are not human. Does applying our own concept of morality to other animals make sense?

You see, you used the word flesheater. That has an obvious negative connotation to it. It implies a beastial savage nature to the diet.

Its like calling vegans twig chewers to make them seem effeminate. You are being judgemental without realizing it

Eating meat is basically shitskin nigger tier

Soy causes problems too, Do get full of yourself.
Soy proteins are known to emulate estrogen and have side effect on me. Steak doesnt cause hairloss

>hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/406507/

Ill take a vegan over a Gulten free person any day of the week. the only problem i had was I got yelled at once for laugh at this girl who was upset i stepped on a bug

You got alternatives to soy; beans, coconut, nuts, seitan etc.

>who rarey, if ever, try to "force" others into it, nor do most attempt to even "shame" others
gr8 b8 m8 I r8 it 8/8

You cannot be a vegan if you are made of meat. It is the height of hypocrisy.

That's not entirely what I meant. But some meat is unnecessarily cruel (foie gras for example), yes.

Mainly, I mean that (I believe) it's ethical for mankind to minimise our impact on nature, simply because it's not ours.
By farming animals so much, humans have messed with the ecology of the planet on a literally industrial scale. Just look at cows - they're a crazy hybrid made by selective breeding that are farmed on huge mega-ranches in their hundreds of thousands where they shit methane out into the atmosphere, they get injected with crazy hormones and antibiotics, and not too long ago they were fed the remains other cows (literal cannibalism). We have no right to do this to nature.

Yes, veganism isn't perfect either (hence why I mentioned palm oil and soya), but it has the potential to be less insane.

Literally nothing to do with what you claimed.

Anyway it's late and I'm out of the thread now.

>gets proven wrong
>muh im leaving now its late

also here have a list of other links that prove you are just a retarded aussie shitposter
livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm
phys.org/news/2012-04-meat-earlier-weaning-humans-globe.html
vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
naturalhygienesociety.org/diet3.html
m.phys.org/news/2013-02-communicateand-kin-relationship.html
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100305-first-proof-gorillas-eat-monkeys-mammals-feces-dna/
now kys

Stop trying to impose your minority culture on mine. If i was a tribal african farmer drinking cow blood you would be saying, wow how interesting lets preserve that.

You fucking idiot. Gorillas can process cellulose and we can't. That's how they get energy.

>the only problem I have with conservatives is you know they are conservative within 5 minutes of meeting one

nice meme answer

>t
What is the point of "saving" a species if their life is pure misery, stress and many times prolonged physical pain?

As a vegan, I'd kill all meat industry animals right now if I could to spare them from their suffering

Are vegan substitutes and pills cheaper than meat? If not why not try and be good person and donate difference to charity and do something good for a change instead of taking moral highground for nothing. Vegans are among most hyprocrytical fanatics i know of.

>I take a B12 sublingual once a week (this is the most essential for vegans).
>I take Opti3 Omega 3 pills every day (most omnis could use Omega3 supplementation themselves).
>I take a multivitamin, too.

A diet so good for you it requires modern science to stay alive. Clearly a good choice.

I've always wanted to be an identitarian but I could never be a victim or a fag -- what do you recommend. I have a job, pay my bills, hate complaining....

This is unbased. Humans can and do live entirely on flesh and water. Except for soy, which early humans did not have, multiple nutrient dense plants are required to live without animal product consumption.