Come at me bro!

ITT
I Defend:
The Teachings of
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.
>The Eastern Orthodox Church.

Some but NOT all elements of the Roman Catholic Church.
>yes the one with that Pope guy.

Some but NOT all elements of other forms of Orthodox Christianity.
>i.e. Oriental Orthodoxy.

Come at me Protestants or anyone else that wants to join the debate.

The Rules:
Stay on topic.

About me I am Eastern Orthodox Christian and a White Confederate Nationalist.
I was raised Roman Catholic. Became a lay teacher in The Faith. Was Ultra-Orthodox by Catholic standards then discovered the Eastern Orthodoxy and here I am.

Other urls found in this thread:

jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4593-confession-of-sin
youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Why are so many people in the South converting to Orthodoxy? I've been hearing about this all over the place. Will the South secede and become a new Serbia? very interesting

...

You sound like a fucking faggot. I hope you kill yourself and find out that God isn't real.

Explain why it was ok for the Ecumenical Patriarch to make himself the head of the church.

They are the original red neck we get this term from the Irish you she know britbro also I hope for a revitalization of the Celtic Orthodoxy born from the Episcopal Church.

Do you touch little boys?

Yes yes yes here we go!!!

Because the Bishop of Rome went into Schism. Constantinople is the next oldest brother

CATHOLIC CHURCH
CALL THE PRIEST FATHER

WORD OF GOD
CALL NO MAN FATHER
>Matthew 23,9 KJV;
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Paul call himself Father to his Mission in Corinth as to Timothy
>1 Corinthians 4:14-17 KJV;
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved
>SONS
I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many
> FATHERS:
for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved
SON, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

If Christ revealed himself to Paul,
Paul would know the intention of this Teaching. If Christ meant his teaching to be taken like this, this would break >The 5th Commandment;
Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother
Taking your Father's title away is dishonoring him. Jesus Didn't say call Just God and Your Male-Progenitor Father, he said call no man this is clearly a parable. In Matthew :36-40--just a few verses earlier--Jesus is careful with the Law why would He be so careless in Matthew 23:9. When Jesus Speaks in Parables he always explains it immediately, and wouldn't you know Matthew 23:11-12 explains it. The point being: as a Priest one must serve.

>Parable:Noun OED;
A simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson.

Even John Calvin knows this.
"While Paul claims for himself the appellation of father, he does it in such a manner as not to take away or diminish the smallest portion of the honor which is due to God." (John Calvin's Commentary on 1 Timothy 1:2).

How exactly did Rome go into schism? The Ecumenical Patriarch refused to accept the authority of the Pope and tried to excommunicate him. Seeing as the Pope was the leader of the Church, following the chain of succession from St. Peter, it was the Ecumenical Patriarch who left the Church rather than the Pope.

>CATHOLIC CHURCH:THEY CONFESS THEIR SINS TO A PRIEST
>WORD OF GOD:JESUS IS THE ONLY ONE FAITHFUL JUST TO FORGIVE SINS
>1 John 1:9 KJV;
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

At a minimum a new verse must be choose. Because it does not decry confessing sins to anyone, also it fails to mention Priests.

This being said, I will still challenge your position and that of the author of that image.

>James 5:16 KJV;
Confess your faults^ one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Isaiah 11:2 Says counsel is one gift of the Holy Spirit. James says to confess you sins to other Christians. It should reason, that some Christians would invoke the Holy Spirit to counsel each other on their sins commented. It would futher reason a Christian would prefer to seek counsel from a church elder.

>John 20:19-23 KJV;
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus gifted the Holy Spirit to ten men with the purpose of giving counsel to mankind, to use jugdement to forgive the sins of many. In Acts 6:1-7 These same ten men plus two, ordained 7 more men by invoking the Holy Spirit via laying on of hands. These elders^, according to James 5:14-15, have the power to remove sins from the sick also.

Not really. The Pope had certain powers, but he did not have the power to order the deposition of the patriarch in Constantinople (he tried to do this, only the Emperor had that power), and he also fucked up the filioque without consulting anyone.

The patriarchs in Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem agreed on this point. The Pope was in error.

All subsequent errors have resulted from this seizure of non-conciliar authority.

>Matthew 5:17 KJV;
Think not that [Jesus has come] to destroy the law, or the prophets: [he has] not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

let's see if the Old Testament has any laws on confessing one's sins.

>Number 5:6-7 KJV;
Speak unto the children of Israel, When a man or woman shall commit any sin that men commit, to do a trespass against the LORD, and that person be guilty; Then they shall confess their sin which they have done: and he shall recompense his trespass with the principal thereof, and add unto it the fifth part thereof, and give it unto him against whom he hath trespassed.

>Leviticus 16:21 KJV;
And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

So the old covenant required confessing does this practice live on today?

>Vidui:Confession
>Judaism

>The book of knowledge: From the Mishneh Torah of Maimonides
>Treatise 5:5;
States making one's sins between he and his neighbor pubic is praiseworthy; but publicising sins between he and the Lord should be limited to "I have sinned" because it is presumptuous what sinning against God means.

>Talmudic Jews
They have done away with the old ways but on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur , on their deathbed, or if they are sentenced to death; they vidui.
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4593-confession-of-sin

Even John the Baptist had his followers confess their sins.
>Matthew 3:6 KJV;
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

>Pic Related
This is the man who originally told people not to confess. It may save you some worldly pride, but at the cost of your soul.
>Psalms 32:1 KJV;
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
>Proverbs 28:13 KJV;
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy

CATHOLIC CHURCH
PRAYERS TO MARY

WORD OF GOD
ONLY PRAY TO THE FATHER, IN JESUS NAME
>John 14:13 KJV;
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

>Pray:Verb OED;
Address a solemn request or expression of thanks to a deity or other object of worship.

>Prayer:Noun OED;
A solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship.

You are correct, praying to anything beyond God is wrong. Your mistakes is misunderstanding this Element of the Faith.
Christians should pray with other Christians. True Christians are Saints, Earthly and Heavenly. Mary is a Heavenly Saint, but we don't pray to her--or any other Saint for that matter. They join us in prayer, they pray for us. Earthly and Heavenly Saints.

Pray for each other for a righteous man's prayers avail.
>James 5:16;

>When two or more gather in my name...
> Matthew 18:20;

Saints Pray from Heaven
Revelations 8:4;

Prayer between Heavenly and Earthly Saints
Heavenly Saints Intercede.
2 Maccabees 15:12-14;
A former Earthly High Priests, now Heavenly Saint appears lays hands on the Jewish Community praying for and blessing them. Maccabeus witnessing the pray as Onias leads.

It is no different than asking for Prayers from your Prayer Group--because thats what it is.

CATHOLIC CHURCH
PRAYERS TO DEAD SAINTS

WORD OF GOD
GOD CALLS THIS AN ABOMINATION
>Deuteronomy 18:10-11 KJV;
There shall not be found among youany onethat maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire,orthat useth divination,or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

>Consulter of familiar spirits
Self explanatory.

>Necromancer:Noun OED;
A person whopracticesnecromancy; a wizardormagician.

>Necromancy:Noun OED;
The supposed practice ofcommunicating with the dead, especially in order topredict the future.

So... Consider the following.
>Saints:Noun OED;
A personacknowledgedasholyor virtuous and typically regarded as being inheaven after death.
>Are
>Not
>Dead

>The Oxford is not good enough.
People in Heaven are not dead
>Saints are right now in heaven.
>In a scene from the crucifixion
>Matthew 27:48-53;

Jesus came here to give us eternal life.
>If one follows his teaching...
>John 6:47; 1 John 1:6;

Saints are the Body of Christ, His Church, in Heaven and on Earth.
So you see, Saints are alive! They are Christians; Good Christians, Followers of Christ, made Sinless through the Blood of Jesus Christ. Granted Eternal Life in Heaven.

Why should a secular Emperor have the power to depose one of the leaders of the Church?

Also, for Biblical proof of the Papacy: youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE

CATHOLIC CHURCH
IDOL WORSHIP

WORD OF GOD
THIS BREAKS THE 2N COMMANDMEDNT
>Exodus 20:4-6 KJV;
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

The Catholic Church practices Idolatry!
>Citation Needed.

Bible definition of idolatry:
>The following seems like a fair TL; DR of Exodus 20:4-6;
>Don't make an idol and worship it!^a, b

>Idolitry:Noun; OED^a
Worship of idols.

>Idol:Noun OED;^b
An image or representation of a god used as an object of worship.

>Worship:Noun OED;^a, b
The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

Where in The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church does this occur?
Only the Triune God is Worshiped by The Church.

Veneration for Saints are expressed, but this is not Worship.

>Venerate:Verb OED;^c
Regard with great respect; revere
>Romans 16:16;
>1 Thessalonians 5:26;
>2 Corinthians 13:12;

I mean they made it to Heaven, God has honored them, why shouldn't we?

We can all agree that these in:
>Pic Related.
Are not idols. Although these examples are "Likenesses", what makes these not offend God. God clearly wants them and calls for them to be used in Worship of Him, in His temples, and even blesses a bronze statue to heal. God is Eternal; when God does a work He does so similarly.
>Matthew 5:17;
For example when God make something new he uses Water and Spirit.
>Genesis 1:2;
>1 Peter 3:20-12;
>1 Corinthians 10:2-4;
>John 3:10;
Doesn't it make sense to decorate His Temple if he ask for it before?

No matter how many times you accuses us, we Christians don't worship idols. You basis your position in ignorance of the Faith and what you has been told by "Muh Preacher". rendering you to a false belief.

>Exodus 25:18-20^a
Make two Cherubims, beaten from gold. Place them on the Mercy Seat (lid) of the ark; Facing each other, place them nice and symmetric like. Their wings should be out to cover the Mercy Seat (lid).

>Numbers 21:9^b
Moses was told by God to make a bronze snake, and put it on a stick. If held it cure snake bites.

>1 Kings 6:23-28;1 Chronicles 28:18;^c
Solomon placed two Olivewood Cherubim layed in Pure Gold in the Oracle on both sides of where the Ark is to be.

>1 King 6:29-35 Ezekiel 41:17–18;^d
The image of Cherubim, open flowers, and palm trees inside the Temple on the walls doors and posts. Carved from cedar, fir, and olivewood layed in Pure Gold.

The Emperor wasn't secular. He was the head of the Church. He presided over the Ecumenical Councils. He was like the later Russian Tsars.

remember mick, it was God who gave the Roman Emperor the sign of the cross in the sky to convert the white man to His religion

Icons are even in early Christian History. These Symbols below and many more, as well as the Old Covenant Temple, are the foundation of Iconography and it's uses and mean within the Faith.
>Fish
>Good Shepherd
>Peacock
>Dove

>Pic Related.
The Divine Liturgy invokes all 5 Senses and The Soul. As Did the Ancient Liturgy of the Old Covenant. Iconography invokes one sense^b. These Icons today as well as in early Christian History call us to be still and Worship the Lord.

>Pic Related.
Some of the body Iconography consists of:
>Scenes from the Bible^c.
>Parables of Christ^d.
>The Last Verse in the Gospel of John^e.

Do you Worship The Holy Bible?
>You say: No, I Venerate The Holy Bible.

We Christians see these Icons as the "Divinely Inspired", "The Word of God", and "Windows into Heaven". They, like the Bible, are:
>Venerated.

>Pic Related^a
Paul wrote:
>Colossians 1:15 KJV;
Who is the image^1 of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

>2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV;
In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image^1 of God, should shine unto them.

As for Icons of Saints.
>Saints are in Heaven these are: >Windows into Heaven.
>To Remember Them.
>Philippians 3:17 KJV;
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

This is how we remember these Holy People. We Venerate them for being Holy. Our Faith in Christ's Teachings tell us they are in Heaven.

>1. In the greek manuscripts εἰkὼν:eikon, Icon.
>Meaning Image

The Emperor was not the head of the Church, the Pope was. Jesus made St. Peter the head of the Church and the Popes were his successors.

> So the old covenant required confessing does this practice live on today?

no. because Jesus.

KEK IS THE ONE TRUE GOD!! PRAISE HIM

Justinian I, who became emperor in Constantinople in 527, established the bishops of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem - referred to as the Pentarchy - as the leadership of the Imperial church and gave each bishop the title of "Patriarch". However, Justinian saw these bishops as under his tutelage: according to his arrangement, "the Emperor was the head of the Church in the sense that he had the right and duty of regulating by his laws the minutest details of worship and discipline, and also of dictating the theological opinions to be held in the Church"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire

It was the Emperor that established the bishophrics. Early Popes did not dispute this, and they certainly did not claim infalibility

The New Testament also supports confessing your sins.

>1 John 1:9 KJV: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

>James 5:16 KJV: Confess your faults^ one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

>John 20:19-23 KJV: Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Status disproved this meme needs to be updated.

Jesus made St. Peter the leader of the Church long before either Constantine or Justinian came along.

Read all of it
>John 20:19-23
I put this in here

The verse you are referring to is very vague. It certainly does not indicate the kind of supremacy the Pope claims today

There's still a hell of a lot more to back up the Pope as the head of the Church than the Emperor.

Also, watch this: youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE

And Peter's first Church was in Antioch

Jesus did not create the Church as such. He established it, but the key things about how the Church functioned and what it looked like were decided upon post-Christ, based upon best interpretation and a synthesis with Greek culture in particular. Like I said, God converted whites through his sign to the Emperor Constantine

Yeah, so? He also established a Church in Rome. But no one's saying that the Bishops of Rome should be the head of the Church because St. Peter lived there, they should be the head of the Church because they follow the line of succession starting with St. Peter.

That doesn't make Constantine the leader of the Church. Constantine was an Arian ffs.

A considerable number of Christians were Arians until the Council decided it was heresy. there was no consensus until it was decided

And the bishop of Antioch also has the same lineage back to Peter.

Go out of her so you don't partake in her sin

>White Confederate Nationalist

Get lost phyletist heretic

The fact it who is closer to the Faith of Peter who has changed things and Rife with corruption.

>Constantinople is the next oldest brother

Except its not, Constantinople was founded hundreds of years after the patriarchates of Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria.

Jesus said make believers of all Nation not to tear them down. How is my cultural heritage, patronage, and pride heretical?

Why did Orthodoxies shited on ecumenical concil that solved schism and was agreed to be valid by both sides TWICE?

Antioch is the oldest it's creation is in Acts.

>Muh Pope
Thank you for this cultural enrichment.

The false patriarch of Rome did this not us who is the aggressor. Who changed many thing including the creed.

>Jesus said make believers of all Nation not to tear them down

What's the logic here, that Orthodoxy is pro-segregation? Wew lad, how do you reconcile this heresy with what happened at Pentecost, which is literally the birthday of the Church?

Galations 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Because Church comes before state what's wrong with regional identity

Also gay marriage confirmed clearly your interpretation is inaccurate because it list occupation nationality (not really this is more of language) and sex so it one doesn't matter then the others don't either.

>Church comes before state

Not according to your worldview, you're saying the state should dictate policy based on race, which is at odds with Church teaching, and adhering to these beliefs over the Church is phyletism, which is condemned as heresy by the Church.

Orthodox didn't study their Latin

See there are southern blacks and whites I wanted you to know I was white I'm married to an Asian not rasist

>when you've been kiked so hard that even the mere sight of religious writing infuriates you

Good goy

You wouldn't refer to yourself as a white confederate nationalist if you didn't have strong feelings of racism towards your fellow man. This sort of thing is explicitly condemned by the Church, you would do well to rid yourself of this BS and stop listening to fat stormfags like Matt Heimbach.

I'm married to an Asian if I were a racist this would be hard to reconsile

Last time I checked the confederacy was not a racist movement against asians.

My three kids are hapa they partake in the white southern heritage too

It was a movement of State and local government scope in the rule of law.

I'm not going to keep debating this with you OP, you can rationalize it however you want but it is not good for your spiritual health, and you have a lot to learn about what it means to be an Orthodox Christian. It doesn't mean you have to be some open borders globalist but if you are going so far as to identify yourself as a white confederate nationalist first and foremost then you are probably going too far in the other direction, forgetting one of the great commandments, which is to love thy neighbor.

order of diptychs not based on founding time, but on apostle order or something I think

ummm, bullshit. Orthodoxy has always supported national integrity. For crying out loud, look at the Black Hundreds in Russia and Iron Guard in Romania!

I work with people of all backgrounds I really think you are reading my claim from the way Yankees teach it you cant learn what it means to be a southerner from a Yankee no more than being a Christian from the Koran in the Koran it says the Trinity is the father son and Mary this was never the case made my any Christian not even Gnostics

Explain to me why you don't worship the one true God kek. He memes for your sins ya know.

>Come at me Protestants or anyone else that wants to join the debate.

The bible has proved that your denominations are wrong , what is there to debate?

Why were the Christian iconoclasts wrong?

...

I´m from a german family and our religion is lutheranism. Although it´s a protestant faith, it´s the most accurate in following the bible´s message.

Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura.

How are they wrong
>Not
>An
>Argument

Last verse in the Gosple of John proves solo scriptura false.

"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

Nope.

And Christian were persecuted in the first century too our Savior was executed. So what in the Russian Orthodox Church they don't take Communion unless they confess before because they were afraid of the kgb. The Roman Church has had many "anti Pope" the fact is our Teachings are the truth of Christthe Roman changed things we have not.

kill yourself

So are you saying these thing that Christ did are not Holy or unimportant. How do you learn these things you live in his teaching as pasted though his follower. Protestants follow the traditions of man not the teachings of christ

The real situation is people say in order to be saved you need to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. But like 1 John 2:3-6 says if you say you have fellowship with him but you are ignorant of what he teaches you walk in darkness. Jesus doesn't say you need to accept him to be saved because if you follow his teaching you have accepted him already. If you say "oh I believe in Jesus" but ignore being baptized because some man told you baptism is a work and thus unnecessary. This is walking in the dark because Jesus says in John 3 to receive the kingdom of God you need to be baptized. And if you don't eat of his flesh as Jesus says because some false prophets tell you Christ is not in this meal you walk in darkness. If you refuse to maintain your spiritual hygiene because someone possessed by Satan say you don't need to worry about invoking the holy spirit to forgive your sins you walk in darkness because Jesus commistions the holy spirit to forgive our daily sins. If you walk in darkness you may very well be going to hell because at that point you aren't relying on Christ's teaching but in your self and no one comes into Gods kingdom except through Christ.

number 1 your saints are dead and they get revived on the last day

>29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

>34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

So what happens to all of us saints we die and we get resurected the last day

I´d say that back to you, but you´re already dead inside.

Are you retarded? I never denied the need of sacraments, this is included in lutheranism. "Sola Scriptura" means that we need no intermediate to Christ and its teachings, since his message is supposed to be universal and available to everyone. The rest of your post is completely unrelated with reality.

That dosen't change a fact that Orthodox Church ACCEPTED it as a VALID and HOLY, ECUMENICAL COUNCIL. Theological dispute ended with Orthodox church accepted Latin Dogma and autority of the Pope. AND IT DID IT FUCKING TWICE! Learn fucking history, becouse you act like retarded protestant.

And another verse ,your saints are dead

> 23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

show me one verse from the bible where the saints are in heaven

Read here
Jesus says to the thief TODAY you will be in paradise. At the transfiguration Moses came down from heaven how would this be possible if we were all asleep?
John 3:16
>Eternal Life not suspend life.

" when the debate is lost slander is the tool loser" - Socrates

Dogma mean opinion if they changed there opinion and belief then you can't fault the Orthodoxy on this who changed who added.

Southerners hate the pope but want to be part of the real church? that's my only clue

At the transfiguration Moses came down from heaven how would this be possible if we were all asleep?

It could be a future event , but more likely that they are 2 special guys , eliah did not die and flew in to heaven with a chariot , moses did die but something special happend also to him , i will try and find the verse


For the thief on the cross if he died he would be in heaven the same day , because when your dead a eternity can pass in a second

also maybe combined with the fact that the episcopalian church is going full retard

>
>And another verse ,your saints are dead
>Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Yep
>Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Last day see that part there
>Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
You think hes dead but guess what hes alive!
>And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
NEVER DIE
>Believest thou this?

>show me one verse from the bible where the saints are in heaven

I didn't have to you already did.

Read

Term "oriental orthodoxy" is a bullshit itself
should be called miaphysite or nonchalcedonic

Ephesians chapter 9 says the dead know nothing Saints arnt dead.
If they were asleep how did it happen it's in the Bible. You tell me

>I didn't have to you already did.

>And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

if you take it literal that would mean you are immortal right now , but you will die, so it is not literal

if the dead know nothing it means they know nothing because they are dead , if they would be in heaven they would know something

If I follow Christ teachings and die in this earth I'm in heaven alive still if you read here in Revelation 8:4 they are in heaven already.

I think you are beginning to break the conditioning. Yes if you don't follow Christ when he returns he will be judged Saints are judged they have eternal life when you're judged you're judged on you own merit if you are in the Body of Christ you have his merit.

Yes the prayer of the saints are in heaven because we pray them to heaven , we are the saints , saints is not some title cathocucks have given them selfs

Also using revelation for doctrine , toppest of kek

Well if you don't accept the Book of Revelations it doesn't matter anyway Jesus says you won't die it's as simple as that what to say in the post hear things are not judged by virtue of Christ it was a typo

Neither of which where formally supported by the Church, those were historical movements formed by lay members. The Church has formally condemned racism and phyletism, however.

I'm not racist though. And I can't discount my cultural heritage it's part of who I am.

I do accept the book of revelation ,its the fullfines of the promise of jesus christ ,but i do see it as a mystery , i would not use it as 1 verse doctrine

C'mon OP. There are lots of Americans that are proud of their heritage, they call themselves Italian Americans or Irish Americans, Mexican Americans or whatever it might be. When you identify specifically as a white nationalist you are saying something else completely. If you are this opposed to being called a racist then here's a bright idea, maybe don't announce yourself as a white confederate nationalist.

I can see that I make that same argument about the creation story in Genesis and I do see parallels between it and our moderned understanding of biology.
But to the issue of saints if you don't agree can you at least admit be have grounds to believe this biblically.

The Romanian Orthodox Church was part of the legionary government, it's ideologues and probably it's members.

pee pee pee
poo poo poo
kek is coming
to enlighten you

White Confederate Nationalist meaning I am white am Nationalist to the southern aka Confederacy as stated above I'm married to a non white. But we partake in the white southern culture

Fare enough I can see your understanding of my phrasing

more proof that the saints are dead

>13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


>and the dead in Christ shall rise first

why do the christians who are in heaven have to get resurrected ? they already have a heavenly body

>I can see that I make that same argument about the creation story in Genesis

>Implying there is some nostradamus prophecy going on in genesis , The book of genesis is clear as day

i did post a verse about david not being in heaven , lazarus did not mention going to heaven , if there is something not in the bible its going to heaven directly when you die

Some of its members were, not the Church as a whole.

Considering high rankings officials of the Church where part of the Legionary government they certainly did not disagree with them.

>more proof that the saints are dead

>But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Has Jesus Rose yet because it says bring with [Jesus]

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Talking about earthly bodies given the context of the next verse.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
See what im saying this a description of the second coming.

So God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth in him...

>will not perish but have everlasting life.

Or

>will fall asleep until he comes again.

Look up to see the answer Jesus said this to Nicodemus in John 3:16

Moses had a vision he wasnt there it's the same at John's vision.
The transfiguration in the Gosples of John says Moses is in heaven by virtue of the old convenient.

The Order of Resurrection

>20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

>The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

shall be destroyed is future , death is not our friend , you dont go to heaven when you die that would make dead your friend , christ is your friend he will resurrect you to life eternal

>>The Eastern Orthodox Church.
FSB Front you mean

All hail satan and his son putin.

The orthadox church was utterly destroyed and subverted by the KGB decades ago.

>Has Jesus Rose yet because it says bring with [Jesus]

yes its from paul all second comming related after jesus was risen

>The Order of Resurrection
>20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept.
As stated here
Matthew 27:48-53
These are from the old Testament that the crucifixion.

Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar,put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink.49The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him.”

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51At that moment the curtain of the templewas torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split52and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.53They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e]went into the holy cityand appeared to many people.

Russian maybe. In some Churches maybe.

There wasn't a debate. You didn't prove anything. You didn't even denounced that things I said was wrong. Then used ad hominem and straw man. Literary, protestant tier discussion. Koneczny was right, protestant subversed your faith.

Also
>Dogma mean opinion
In both our churches this is heresy. In the True one, you would be excommunicated by just saying this.

>>will not perish but have everlasting life.

Yes you either perish in hell or you get eternal life
1 Corinthians 15
>42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

>50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

>and this mortal must put on immortality.

its clear that the dead christ were not in heaven or they did not need a heavenly body , there for the saints are dead

And yes the opinions they had at that time was right but when you change the they are no longer right.

>Resurrection
This is Christ kingdom on Earth.
This has not came yet this is about the physical earthly new body.

yes this is the resurrection on the last day with the second comming not the little one from matthew

1 Corinthians 15

is talking about the big resurrection with the second comming

Hold up this is the second comming where we meet the lord in the sky to be with him forever after the seventh trumpet

Yes with physical bodies. Until then saints are in heaven.

Describe to me what Eternal Life means

I say it means your Life is Eternal meaning you won't die Jesus's has Eternal Life to is he sleeping?

The Russian Orthodox Church today announced the election of its new Patriarch, Metropolitan Kirill, to replace Patriarch Alexy II who passed away in December. Kirill is a known KGB/FSB agent code named "Mikhailov". Patriarch Alexy likewise was a long-time agent of Russia's intelligence services code named "Drozdov" (blackbird):
KGB material in the Estonian archives leaves no doubt about the patriarch’s connections with the KGB. It even gives a specific date for his recruitment: February 28, 1958. He received the code name "Drozdov." The Estonian document, signed by a Colonel I. P. Karpov, head of the KGB in the republic, states: "During the period of collaboration with the organs of the KGB ‘Drozdov’ positively recommended himself. During secret rendezvous he was punctilious, energetic and convivial. He is well-orientated in theoretical questions of theology and the international situation. He has a willing attitude to the fulfillment of our tasks and has already provided materials deserving attention." [Michael Bourdeaux, The Complex Face of Orthodoxy]

Had me until you said you were a white confederate nationalist

No where in the bible does it say it's ok to be racist

Lol I have had this conversation all though out this thread read it it's easy to find.

Jesus is the son of god offcourse he is not sleeping

i dont want to use revelation as solid doctrine but its the first time it mentions people in heaven and its after the first resurrection

Rejoicing in Heaven
Revelation 19
>1And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at

Matthew 22:30

>And yes the opinions they had at that time was right but when you change the they are no longer right.
> the opinions they had at that time was right but when you change the they are no longer right.
> when you change the they are no longer right.
> change
> Dogma
> change
For fuck sake...

>Describe to me what Eternal Life means

describe to me what god meant with if you eat that apple you shall surely die , was it death or was it that if you die your soul will go to heaven? , making death a friend because heaven is a greater place then earth.

Jesus promise is life eternal it does not matter that its 100 years from now or a million years from now.

Nowhere in the bible does it say not to be racist. The Bible says that God divided the nations out at babel so they would not be one homogenized people. A nation has traditionally been understood as a tribe of similar race, culture, ect. The universal-ism and equalism that has gripped the west now is masonic and satanic, with the goal of bringing about the neo-babel one world government.

>Matthew 22:30

Yes we are not going to have sex in heaven what is your point?

>Filioque
By changing things this mean it wasn't divinely inspired before

How does it feel knowing your worship a Jew from Israel who spoke Aramaic and looked like this?

Heaven not Christ kingdom on earth

Feels good

How can you call yourself a Confederate and worship a shitskin? Lmao

Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

This does not help your case if they went to heaven they would have this problem also , but note that the first thing they mention is the problem in the resurrection

You are some dispute about communion of saints? Here you go
> 1 Corinthians 12
>Romans 8:32
>1 Corinthians 6:17
> 1 John 1:3
>Hebrews 12:1
>Hebrews 12:22-23
Read those, along with context. Then read works of Nicetas of Remesiana. Apostles' Creed and shiet.
I can bet that you don't even know what filioque means. Pro tip, Orthodox and Catholic way to describe this part of theology is same substance but different words. Read acts of Second Council of Lyon.
And you are literally saying that dogma can change. It's not saying that Church cannot accept dogmas, you are saying that seted dogma can change. And this is fucking heresy.
>Random skull from Judea as a face of the Lord
>Not useing two holy relicts to recreate it's face
Lmao
Also, Jesus knew at least three languges, maybe even some Latin.

How does that proof that mary is in heaven right now and we should give her special status.

1 Corinthians 12
Is about the holy spirit and what atributes it has, nothing about saints

Which Resurrection the second coming or the first when I started the First you say the second when I say it's the second you say the first resurrection. What does eternal life mean is Jesus also sleeping he has a life too the Bible says we will be like Christ

There are 3 resurrections the one with jesus he is the first and some people of the ot

then the resurrection of the dead in christ with the second comming , christians use heaven as a ark

Then after 1000 years the damned get resurrected and judged

Then everything gets rekt and made new , and god will make the new earth his kingdom

>How does it feel knowing your worship a Jew from Israel who spoke Aramaic
what's the problem?

>and looked like this
he looks like this