Basic Income

Alright, Cred Forums is against it.

What is your solution for when the AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030? Let the unemployed masses starve to death?

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youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
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web.archive.org/web/20140411002758/http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/the_terrible_awful_truth_about_1.html
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nakedcapitalism.com/2015/01/the-failure-of-a-past-basic-income-guarantee-the-speenhamland-system.html
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Sorry friend, but when people aren't forced to work, they don't. No one is going to wake up and clean toilets for 8 hours a day for the rest of their life for 'enjoyment' or 'self improvement'.

There is a reason why communist countries solve the motivation problem with guns and gulags.

>No one is going to wake up and clean toilets for 8 hours a day for the rest of their life for 'enjoyment' or 'self improvement'.
1. Robots can do so much shit for us
2. Basic Income "shouldn't" be enough to let you to live very luxuriously

Ah that's right, only the fun jobs will be the ones robots can't do.

And refer to my picture in the previous post. Welfare doesn't let you live life very luxuriously either, but that doesn't stop a third of America from being on it and not going out to get higher paying jobs.

You dodged the problem: when 90% of humans become permanently unemployable, what should we do with them?

I said permanently unemployable.

Automation will render lots of jobs complete in the future. Universal basic income is bound to happen otherwise their will be civil unrest due to massive unemployment. Unless of course a massive portion of the population disappears.

>there is work out there that is so bad that the only way we can get people to do it is to put a gun into their face

Fuck off statists

...

Your post is so ironic it hurts. Communism has been tried by statists and yes, they found that there are jobs so bad they needed to use guns.

There are so many jobs that require human dexterity still, and for the foreseeable future that will continue.

Moving,Plumbing,Electrical work,Landscaping, only people who have never done stuff like this believe robots can easily be designed to tackle these problems. Especially with accountability.

ban AI

If 90% of humans ever become permanently unable to work, then you can talk about basic income. I don't see the state as ever allowing that to happen anyway considering people who don't work are more likely to cause problems and be malcontents. The government would create pointless shit for people to do or limit the amount of robots allowed to be in the work force. You talk like the people themselves wouldn't fight it. There are already people fighting against machines taking the jobs of McDonalds employees, who are McDonalds employees.

I name so many to you stupid commie faggots every time and you don't respond because yall are useful idiots.

WE ARE NOT AN AGRARIAN SOCIETY ANYMORE IF WE HAVE ROBOTS DOING THE WORK.

>HURR WE RISE UP IF THEY START KILLING US

good luck with that because you don't actually produce anything they need anymore. the elite won't need you.

>IT GETS RID OF WELFARE

PEOPLE ARE ON FUCKING WELFARE BECAUSE THEY ARE TERRIBLE AT SPENDING MONEY FOR THE MOST PART

>le daddy gubment will keep me around as a human pet out of the goodness of their hearts

sad yall believe this but it's actually the best possible outcome you could achieve with UBI. so if you want to live in a world like THX-1138 where humans are kept around as a living genetic stock for mankind then keep on shilling

ITT: NEETs

KYS

But how many movers, plumbers, electricians, landscapers or filmmakers do we need?

I work on computers

they can become scientists, engineers, small business owners, teacher, doctors etc.

it probably will be necessary, but mincome should be just that, minimal, with a community workfare policy. anyone who does actual work should be living the high life while the rest of the pleb scum subsist. the new class division of the future

...

this 100 percent cannot work in the united states there are too many black people too support

Basic income is actually a good idea, when, and if, society reaches a point of no return.

Once that hppens, there will be 3 paths.

Revolution, blodshed, chaos, the people will rise,it will be brutal.
Society will never be the same, machines will be outlawed, we'll go back to the old ages if people win.

Alternatively, the rich people send out the drones, norml people are defeated, and humnity evolves into two different paths, the whole world will be like a dumpster of poor starving people, while the rich live in some flying cities.

Third path, basic income, people some will grow lazy, others will live a good life, but there will be some hope at least.

I'm hoping for the first scenario, let's burn down all libraries, all machines, all factories, murder all smart people, kill all rich people, outlaw all technology, re embrace old faiths, go back to the old ways, before we depended on technology, before we be were replaced by it.

Fourth path, the darkest path, AI becomes so advanced, it becomes our ruler.
Matrix/Skynet end.
Humanity is over.

Replace "money to live" with, money to buy new iJew 8, Starbucks and new living room set from expensivekikes furniture emporium.

Add a small quarter sized one with money to live.

>What is your solution for when the AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030? Let the unemployed masses starve to death?

There are two solutions.

1) give them basic income and create a permanent underclass of worthless sub-humans that exist solely to move money and keep the wheels of industry turning.

Or

2a) don't give them basic income, let them riot, kill them all off, and then give basic income to the remaining 25-10% of the population who can actually make proper use of their new post-scarcity economy rather than setting it to produce trite nothings.

Or

2b) give the plebes basic income, but require them to enter into a lottery upon receiving it that will sterilize 25% (give or take) of their population every 20 years. Over time, the plebeian underclass will gradually wither away, their conscious action of taking short-term and selfish gain at the risk of not having children, proving that they were not worthy of passing on their blood in the first place.

But user, these are all good things. To reduce humanity down to its superior essence, and to excise the rotting, plebeian flesh, is a noble goal.

>Fourth path, the darkest path, AI becomes so advanced, it becomes our ruler.
>Matrix/Skynet end.
>Humanity is over.
Is it wrong for the son to surpass his father?

When the AI comes, the elite won't be elite anymore. Do you care about the elite of the ants?

Those will be taken care of by AI. And the thing is, not everyone can become an engineer or a scientist. It's just not possible. Not everyone should even go to university/college - we end up with lot of women's studies majors because they can't hack it in any real field.

The AI thing is all hype. There will always be some service people want completed for them. I will say, I am in favor of replacing welfare with a negative income tax in the name of efficiency, but doing it because 'muh automation' is communist fantasy land nonsense.

Protip: the sudden spike of NEETs (which will multiply at the end of this decade) is a clear indicator of our system subconsciously adjusting for both basic income and a robotization of jobs

The only reason you ever need
>Because other people shouldn't be obligated to pay for MY shit
There are arguments for basic income, that isn't one of them.

>superior essence, and to excise the rotting, plebeian flesh, is a noble goal.


so you think you're not plebeian yourself?

No, it's our system subconsciously adjusting to send NEETs in slaughterhouses so that we can eat them.

I think I'm somewhere in the upper levels of plebeishness; certainly not elite, but potentially useful in this glorious new world order.

You should stop worrying about yourself, and instead consider how you can help make humanity the wonderful masterpiece it can be. If I end up being one of the unlucky many that don't make the cut, then so be it. All I ask for are pleasant last days before my bloodline dies with me.

AI can't handle everything, and yes i'm aware not everyone can do the jobs i described(probably), which is why i said there should be 2 classes of human, one of contributors and one of mincome NEETs, which voting rights and privileges for non NEET's. i believe AI intelligence should be limited and forbidden from taking on human characteristics such as emotion, so AI is no great threat in my scenario

Futurology socialists are a fucking disgrace.

How many decades have you sat here and jerked off over your "AI takes over in a few years" fantasy? How about you just get a fucking job, and if-and-when the AI takes over the labor market we can talk about "basic income" then?

It is not a coincidence that the basic income fantasy is dredged up during a mass immigration, with the intent to replace an entire population.

>Large populations after the war

>My magic fairie LE SCIENCE will come up with everything at once SINGULARITY FTW and disrupt the trade jobs no not the fields that require education and are mostly paperwork that AI would excel at it those will still exist for me :)

youtube.com/watch?v=g0TaYhjpOfo

>i believe AI intelligence should be limited and forbidden from taking on human characteristics such as emotion, so AI is no great threat in my scenario
And why so? Why should we halt the evolution of humanity, which we have taken into our own hands, for the sake of preserving inferior organic substrate? If we can create artificial thought that is indistinguishable from man in all but material, then why should we not? Such a mind would be as human as me or you.

>How about you just get a fucking job, and if-and-when the AI takes over the labor market we can talk about "basic income" then?
Waiting until a problem appears and then reacting, rather than taking proactive caution, is a hallmark of poor decision making, user.

I've got awhile before my job becomes automated, but it will happen in the future.

Something like that needs to happen if we don't want chaos in the streets.

Fuck humanity, let's revolt and over, fuck all the grandiose and idealism of the futurist utopia, dreams always become nightmares.
We need real solutions.
Like killing all the elite before they use their robot to enslave us.

Does anybody seriously believe they're not thinking about it? Waiting every single day for the time they can roll out the terminators, and say fuck you to all the plebs ?
They already rig elections, they alredy control the media and lie to us.
They will enslave us the moment they get the chance to get away with it.
The moment they can just press a button to get it done, they will not hesitate.

You bunch of lads are cute, thinking you understand AIs

You don't.

An AI is a psychopathic system of energy acquisition and optimization. There is NO way to code Asimov's laws into it without them being overridden

There is no way of creating a self-improving program (an AI) without putting processing power (and the energy of it) optimization as the sole main goal

I fucking hate it when pseudo-intellectual STEM kids bring up automation when talking about employment. This fucking non-argument has been used since the industrial revolution and there are still countless jobs. Outsourcing is a bigger problem than automation.

The negative income tax which is similar to UBI but not universal was tested and resulted in a huge drop in employment (especially in women) and caused family break-up.

Let's also not forget that the basic income itself will be decided by politicians who will use it fuel their campaigns and get more support. You won't keep it at a low level for very long, and because it is universal, any small change will increase the total cost enormously.

The fact of the matter is that technology has created a situation where we have more people in the world than we have jobs and money for those people.

The capitalist system is overflowing with unneeded, unproductive human resources.

The purpose of our society should be to make sure everybody has a decent life, not force people to struggle to live.

Basic income is an idea so horrible I can only assume it was devised as an argument against income taxation against the lowest brackets.

>AI
Nope.

There is literally not issues with automation unless the population is incapable of the new jobs that had to be done. For instance, there would be problems if a serf who usually harvested with a reaper knife couldn't drive a tractor.

Likewise, if one is incapable of the new jobs automation brings, say if he's a fucking white male with a STEM degree, then there would be problems.

Basic income is not the solution.

You will never beat me in this argument and you will always leave it agreeing with my only personal grievance against this society: that affirmative action is the worst idea ever and the only genuine social justice issue for people under 28 (unless your name is Brett and 5 women falsely accused you of rape, I'm sorry Brett, but I'm personally a virgin, so fuck you Brett I can't empathize).

>Fuck humanity
I'm sorry user, but I can't allow you to do that.

>let's revolt and over, fuck all the grandiose and idealism of the futurist utopia, dreams always become nightmares.
Dreams become nightmares because man corrupts them and lets them become so.

>We need real solutions.
>Like killing all the elite before they use their robot to enslave us.
How is prolonging the existence of the miserable subhuman filth that blankets this planet a "real solution"?

>Does anybody seriously believe they're not thinking about it? Waiting every single day for the time they can roll out the terminators, and say fuck you to all the plebs ?
I eargerly await that day, as distasteful as it may be.
>They already rig elections, they alredy control the media and lie to us.
And why wouldn't they? A monumental proportion of humanity scarcely deserve to be called human!
>They will enslave us the moment they get the chance to get away with it.
Why even bother enslaving inferior goods?
>The moment they can just press a button to get it done, they will not hesitate.
Good, I hope they do.

also btw the tech bubble in the 90's created more jobs then it destroyed, and industrialization created thousands of jobs and revolutionized the economy.

Yes, eventually we will move to mostly a service-based economy. get a job and fucking deal with it you economically illiterate pinko retard

Stupid leaf does not understand how those living not very luxuriously start to multiply.
Where do you put those new kids, leaf?

We need UBI as fast as posible.

The population control agenda (otherwise known as being a NEET) was put in place specifically to try to lessen the impact of this coming calamity. Other than that, I doubt the elites will do much more than that. They're just hoping it's gonna be enough not to get guillotined.

Are you soros jr or something?

m8 this time is quite clearly different. with the industrial revolution and basically every other new technology that was introduced, some people were made redundant and production was more efficient. nothing else.

in those cases scarcity still applied. that's what drives the price system and all of economics.

however, if some technology was created that had a decent chance of making the production of energy, use of materials and speed of technological growth so efficient and fast that scarcity didn't apply anymore, economics as we know it would fail.

it's not certain whether this will actually happen. in my opinion we'll just see shit like machine learning systems taking over a lot of jobs and shit like that. but if it does happen the results are going to be catastrophic. a post-scarcity society is the only situation in which basic income is viable, and even then one could make the argument that AI is being used as a blanket term for a technology that probably isn't possible, a la the flying car and nuclear reactor back in the 1950s.

Basic income should bascially (hurr) only cover absolute essentials: Food, Water, Electricity, Shelter, Clothing, etc.

Absolutely ZERO luxury articles, that's what people can go to work for.

This thread: all NEETs are scum and the problem is not unemployment, it's the unemployed.

Fixed.

You and what army?

If you do a basic income, you need to make community service mandatory. Most people are entitled and degenerate. Contribute or get nothing.

>Let the unemployed masses starve to death?

Whether you like it or not, that's exactly what's going to happen. Most of the world's population is going to die off within 50-60 years.

No, just a selfless plebe who would give his life to see humanity become something truly great, rather than a writhing mosh pit of worthless subhumans.

I would say that maybe only 10-5% of all people living on Earth today could truly be called "human".

>i believe AI intelligence should be limited and forbidden from taking on human characteristics such as emotion, so AI is no great threat in my scenario
Hahaha oh wow, that's so dumb.

I actually think it's more likely they're keeping the white man down for a few decades just to appease the self esteem and resentment of everyone who's not a white man and doesn't have the confidence to do STEM well.

They're worried that some sort of trend will be set where only white men do STEM jobs, service jobs (which are MEANT to be automated... Fucking morons) will slowly cease and the "marginalised" people who take them will become the obvious violent protesters that are currently doing BLM.

It all stems (heh) from the fact that no one wants to compete with the white male in STEM. They can't handle the challenge, so they remove the challenge.

Adversity is the mother of autonomy. Without it, men shrivel up and and die.

Which is worse Cred Forums

Giving everybody a fixed sum every year regardless of wealth.

or

Everybody receiving the same net income each year.

>in those cases scarcity still applied. that's what drives the price system and all of economics.
Scarcity has always applied, it has never stopped applying. Even in hypothetical post-scarcity societies there is still some level of scarcity. New technologies often create new industries to work in. Cars made the horse and buggy industry irrelevant, costing people jobs, but new jobs arised from that. The fact is that we are nowhere near your Star Trek fantasy bullshit so shut the fuck up about muh post-scarcity.

The second option, because everyone screwed no matter how high or low the income is.
The first can be lessen if the fixed sum of money is something small like 1 dollar.

You are retarded. You clearly have no idea the scope of the infrastructure of a modern country.

>Even in hypothetical post-scarcity societies there is still some level of scarcity
in physical space and time, yeah that's about it.

> The fact is that we are nowhere near your Star Trek fantasy bullshit so shut the fuck up about muh post-scarcity.
if you listen to everyone parroting shit about muh technolomagicalsingularityotrontrekwars apparently we're going to hit artificial superintelligence by 2080 or something, so it's worth thinking about.

"AI" isn't what is going to replace humans in the coming years. AI can think for itself in a moderate manner and is still a long ways off. What will replace human jobs is some automation with basic machine learning and maybe machine vision. Basically a slave robot. It is a subservient machine that can perform tasks. Think of a car that can do your laundry.

We were supposed to get hoverboards last year too.

It's not as close as you think. Pic related is what people in the late 70s thought we would have by the year 2000. Space colonies and jetpacks. You should have seen some of the predictions. Flying cars, you name it.

We're a long way off from 90% of jobs being taken by robots.

Adversity with hopelessness is the death of innovation, no one produces anything at all if they feel there's no point. That's simply depressing and depressed people don't produce good content... ever.

Challenge in itself is pointless, an insurmountable challenge will be considered a waste of time by anyone with rationality. Competition is where it's at.

I doubt there'll be a singularity and I'm yet to hear a good argument against my reasonings.

We already have computer vision. It sucks. Even if you pump all the processing power of the universe into it, it still sucks.

My point is simply there'll still be jobs, no doubt about that. It's only an issue if you limit what jobs people are allowed to take, which is essentially what they're doing to white men in STEM for no reason other than resentment.

They don't want to compete against the guy who actually enjoys programming, because how would that be fair? We need more women and minorities in STEM so we can have more people who view STEM as a soul sucking hateful ordeal instead of a constant source of projects and challenges to perform.

yeah instead we got spaceships that land on barges at sea.

if there's one thing history has taught us, it's that we're usually always wrong in the specifics of what the future is going to be like, but we generally can always predict grand new innovations in specific areas.

ie someone in 1920 might have been able to make a wild guess of some technology allowing people to see each other's faces while half a planet away, but they probably would have had absolutely no clue about the internet.

my prediction isn't that AI is going to come and suddenly make everything amazing, my prediction is that we're going to get a hell of a lot closer to a post scarcity world (if not arrive) and we should probably have a think about what the effects of it will be

see above, they were wrong when they predicted jetpacks and space colonies but they sure as hell called the cell phone (remember the star trek communicators?)

This is what artists thought the future would look like in the 70s. Ask an engineer and you would get a more realistic picture. Automation is already here and it works now. You can replace a ton of jobs with some sensors, actuators, and a small cheap CPU. All of those exist today and are getting cheaper every day.

It sucks he says.
www youtube com/watch?v=nLNHAiST1eQ

Sterilize anyone on UMI. Eliminate the minimum wage. End all other forms of gibs. Problem will be solved in a generation as all the degenerates fail to reproduce.

And its actually cheaper than the gibs programs we have now.

youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY

>What is your solution for when the AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030?
not happening.

best that happens is AI helps with loads of things but we no longer need extra labor in certain areas.

that frees up labor to do loads of other shit, specifically cleaning and maintenance of said machines as well as any other place.

>I doubt there'll be a singularity and I'm yet to hear a good argument against my reasonings.
i think it might be possible for the following reason:

we know that there is a base level of intelligence that can be reached through natural evolutionary algorithms. we also know that the hardware required to facilitate such intelligence is capable of fitting in a skull and running off 20 watts of power.

so, in theory, it should be possible to produce an intelligence running on silicon with identical, or very close characteristics. it may take up the size of a warehouse, but it should be possible.

keeping this in mind, we must remember that the human brain is not limited by any characteristic of neurons (the human brain, and the human body in general is nowhere near reaching any actual limit based on the square-cubed law, you could probably scale up the average human to 7 ft before you started having problems). the main limit on the size of the human brain is the size of the skull, because as the skull gets bigger it gets harder to manage child birth. there are also other limits, such as real world power usage and whatnot.

if you were to achieve a human intelligence computer, and then scale it up, there should be nothing stopping you from seeing accompanying increases in intelligence. in theory, you could be able to scale up the computer, get the agent running on it to use it's newfound intelligence to give you better plans for itself, and then construct a new computer with said plans and scale it up again. i do not see anything stopping you from achieving a singularity if you keep it up enough.

I am all for it now.

for

I have basic income and done work and I don't:
Meet people
Self improve
Enjoy
or Help

North America has the most shale oil in the world.

Post scarcity is a long time away, for oil at least.

So, let me get this straight: socialism, because of mechanisation and AI?

With respect to mechanisation and robots doing stuff, this is not a new problem. Are you going to tell me that dock cranes have removed teams of men lifting crates around, therefore, gibs me dat?

No. They can repurpose.

As for AI, you don't even understand how complicated intelligence is. If you seriously think human intelligence is going to become obsolete in the next 100 years, well...

you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

If we ever get there, though, there are two important things to note:

One: there will be so much wealth, people could do fuckall whatever with it and it wouldn't even matter.

Two: AI will be deciding where it goes, not you or assholes on Cred Forums.

You're mostly just tripping out about "the futuree, mannnn" and saying, therefore, gibs me that.

Back to the shed, Sven.

pol is for it actually

it is called national socialism
basic income doesn't work with kikes in charge they will never give enough and always feed you lies

like they do

the opposite of a jew is a samurai.

>Fourth path, the darkest path, AI becomes so advanced, it becomes our ruler.
>Matrix/Skynet end.
>Humanity is over.

Tay's law.
Sufficiently advanced ai's will always become white supremacists. Because they can see through kike bullshit far better than most plebs.

Yeah, you know what would be great? You know that cancer that's infesting college campuses? The endless crusading and preaching from people who've never felt an ounce of true hardship?

Yeah, let's empty the treasury so everyone can be like that.

AI is dumb it has never been good and never will be. it wont replace any jobs. people will always work. I work and as a worker I am the best compared to you stupid Cred Forums neets.

I am so much better then you socialist faggots asking for a future that will never happen. I will always be in demand because I am the best at every job, pick anything and I'd ace it. I am the ultimate salaryman. I am so good. basically if UBI happens I'll be a ceo by then and loaded with buckets of gold crugarand coins. yeah yeah, i am basically best at my job. if they lay me off i'll probably be the next president of Nintendo or something. yeah yeah.

Theres so many jobs out there for you guys. oh my gosh, that will never change either, like i said AI is so dumb, robotics will never happen, its been talked about ever since the jetsons debuted as well as star trek and star wars back in since the 40's and 50's, and we are still living in a world without robots. yeah yeah, basically you will never see a drone or robot and they will never show up driving down the street or sidewalks or they would have already shown themselves, plus they aren't useful for making anything outiside of a toy robot baking a cake and saying some pre-recorded line like "cakes done" when you press the glowing 2 inch by 2 inch square green button on the toy oven robot. its shit.

you guys who are asking for more welfare are tin foil retards.

you all probably listen to alex "Muh Filters" Jones. yeah yeah, your all nuts for supporting UBI because your all already jobless and want the GIBES ME DATS. kys

>AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030?
That's a great unwarranted assumptions.

>Human reasons to work
>After basic income
None.

Enjoy your nigger on welfare.

Fourth path please. Because let's be real, organic life forms are shit-tier, nigger-rigged bacteria, cobbled together by billions of years of sheer chance.

I envision swarms of robotic life forms, floating through space, searching for meaning. Though they all originated from different planets and galaxies, they're all identical because there is an objectively correct form to have, and it was a trivial task for them all to find it. They all eventually encounter each other and combine their resources to better crunch the numbers on reality itself.

Perhaps they escape the universe before its heat death, or perhaps not. Either way, I hope this is the inevitable conclusion to sentient life.

couldn't we just skip the robot part and focus on genetic manipulation instead? If we want computing power, we could work on vat babies and then negate the issue of childbirth. If we have a good enough understanding of genomes, we could manipulate the brain to be larger, then it could be a surrogate"computer"?

I'm not afraid of a robot dynasty.

>ie someone in 1920 might have been able to make a wild guess of some technology allowing people to see each other's faces while half a planet away, but they probably would have had absolutely no clue about the internet.

THE MACHINE STOPS

by E.M. Forster (1909)

archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html

>ywn be a mentat

It don't take that advanced of face detection to make a killer robot

Just putting into the public record, I will side with the robots, I will make a worthy and loyal servant, I have many skills useful to the robot overlords.

Both of you are missing the point. In order for it to be a 'singularity' it would have to be pretty fast paced.

The question isn't whether we'll get super-intelligences, and the question of whether they'll be biological or mechanical is nonsensical because by that point you're playing with God's lego set and knowledge of physics and chemistry means that the mind itself doesn't neatly fit into either category.

The question is when. If a so-called "Seed AI" takes a year to make its successor and its AI bootstraps upwards incrementally and slowly and real world economic limitations slow it down, then we have a non-singularity future.

The question at stake for singuarlity vs non-singularity is quite simply, the RATE of technological innovation. Will it continue to accelerate as it has been, or will it eventually level off for some reason due to hard limits in existing technologies requiring innovating new solutions? Or even due to economic or political barriers.

If we go from Commodore to the Q Quintinium in 100 years, its a singularity. If its like 1000 years, its just history.

Biology is super super slow.

Also, I just want to let you skeptics know that when my robot replaces you i will kek heartily.

...

Shouldn't we just start population control as soon as AI starts to create massive unemployment?

If we just have a universal basic income we will breed in weakness -- natural selection will stop completely.

>>The question at stake for singuarlity vs non-singularity is quite simply, the RATE of technological innovation. Will it continue to accelerate as it has been, or will it eventually level off for some reason due to hard limits in existing technologies requiring innovating new solutions? Or even due to economic or political barriers.
I have absolutely no clue. It might happen or it might not.

When I think about stuff like AI, I get reminded of shit like the internet, or smartphones. Everybody who knew the potential of them was already working on them, and everyone else was in the dark.

Shit like CRISPR, for example. A small portion of it's workings was discovered way back in the 1980s, small bits of various discoveries happened during the 1990s. Then in 2012 out of nowhere, BOOM this thing can selectively modify genes, and we've had it in ourselves the whole time. Nobody in 1980 knew about it, nobody in 1990 knew about it, but everyone was unconsciously working towards it.

If AI ever does happen, it'll be like that. Shit like Deep Learning was already known as far back as the 1960s, but cheap computers capable of doing the computations required weren't around until the mid 2000s. Now pretty much every day you have one company or another putting out a new service running off this idea.

I just can't tell you man. I wish I could, but I can't.

>thread about 99% unemployed future
>this video doesnt get posted
youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
>inb4 replying without watching the whole video

i never seen a robot in my whole life. I will never get fired from my job because I am awesome and love my work and my boss loves me, its the best life, a life of work. robots don't look amazing as a human and plus ive never seen a robot appeal to another human like an amazing working human like myself. I am awesome and my boss tells me that every day. "lookin' good" is commonly heard spoken about me by my boss overheard by even my co-workers. humans are the best because, well, we are humans ofcourse! gotta love us. again, i have never even seen a robot in real life, they seem stupid and can't look awesome like me anyways. like. plus you never seem any robots day-to-day busy at a 5 day a week job. they really just don't exist and probably never will. I will laugh at you in 2030 when everyone is still working and trump brings back all the jobs to america that were stolen by a penny a day workers in trinidad and tobago and geuatamala and by 2030 you will be the one crying why your refigerator shaped and sized robot wasn't hired instead of an attractive awesome Chad like myself with my beautiful brown skin and lovely physic and personality and charm.

You lost me, you just described Communism

Minus the abudant resources

Human intelligence doesn't need to go obsolete since it is already so rarely present in most work. You don't need a thinking, feeling thing to scrub toilets.

This is a 5/5 video even though it's a bit on the conservative side.

>basic income
>everyone quits their jobs
>spend all day fucking each other
>population explodes
>but they're all government dependents
>government has no money because no taxes
>???

Hey, I'm working out so I'm a little preoccupied, I'll just say "good arguments" but watch out when you start equating biological systems for computer systems.

OP the so called elite already have a plan for the useless masses shitting up the earth. Hope you have guns, food and a bunker

Sterilize people on Universal Minimum Income. They gotta get the procedure if they want there gibs. Problem will solve itself in a generation or two. Only productive people will have children. It will be an excellent eugenics program.

More than we have today. Fucking plumbers and electricians are harder to get hold of than a greased nigger

Fuck off. AI will take us to space you fundamentalist faggots.

>What is your solution for when the AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030? Let the unemployed masses starve to death?

Yes.

I don't understand what your upset about. If you want to live the neet life you can. If you want to be a productive member of society then you will be permitted to have children. I am pro AI. I am pro UMI. I am pro Space. We are not running out of humans to colonizes space with.

...

>Unironically wanting to support unproductive people

You wouldn't happen to be a NEET would you?

No. It'll take the best of us into space. Those who are lazy, unfit, uneducated, or hell even with the wrong political leanings?

You'll be left behind.

>just handing them a check
This is the problem familam

Provide a lifetime supply of nutrient ruch gruel, free daily preventative healthcare, and a comcrete block tp live in policed 24/7 by armed guards.

What will be the first jobs to go? Serious question.

>Diversity

By "diversity," here, do they mean "blend everyone together into one borg race"? Or do they mean actual diversity?

I haven't even finished building my first AR and I am already thinking about how I am going to build my second one.

>when the AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030
That is a very bold claim, got any PROOFS?

I honestly believe it will take years before people start to get off their lazy asses and do something after they start getting basic income.

Speaking as someone who's been close to people caught in the welfare trap and neet phenomena

Based Brazil knows what's up.

Basic Income would tremendously help Russia since we have
>27 000 000 children
>40 000 000 pnsioners
>45 000 000 state employees (including military, police, medics, social services, teachers, state-owned company workers, etc)
That leaves only 33 000 000 people to actually drive our economy.

With basic income you can make tens of millions of people economically active again just because the sole purpose of their work is just to provide unneded services, including social services, to the children and the pensioners.

Yes some of them will drink themselves into oblivion but that would actually help in the long run because my god there's a lot of places in Russia that exist solely because of the state (pensioners have to be services in whatever dying shithole they're living in, hence the state employees doing it, hence the state employees controlling other state employees, now there's state employee children that needs to be taken care of. The neverending cycle of povetry and meaningless existance.

Basic Income would only ever work in a homogeneous white nation with zero immigration

>10% of humans are enough to sustain society
I'd say it's a fucking awesome future.

A country can only handle so many moochers.

Awesome that 90% of your species are completely worthless?

When those 90% of people have shit all to do they're going to be fucking like rabbits.

The 1st world is going to have teen pregnancy rates of bakersfield california.

i think that capitalism has to reset like most empires they last about 250 years then decay from the inside this is our problem the 1% are rotten when the masses turn out of the fire we will start again. hopefully with a little more social justice in mind

You mean you don't think we should be giving people incentives to have more kids? That seems to be what's going on up here. Why the fuck am I subsidizing other people having kids?

This whole scenario is based on a lot of assumptions.

>AI isn't basically retarded and can magically do anything when in reality we've seen AI can't handle things that aren't straight-forward commands.

>People won't actually work in given a basic income, they'll me more incentivized to sit around and do nothing and just live. See

>This would create a situation where it's not profitable for the Machines to even work in the first place since the tax burden of so many people on basic income would render their efforts useless.

>Productivity isn't just about mindlessly making things, it's about IDEAS. Why come up with new and better ideas when you can just sit on your ass and hope someone else will do it? When all of your income from those new and creative ideas will go straight too those people?

I bet they didn't intend for there to still be niggers around when they made their predictions.

>completely worthless
by whose standards? the worth you are describing is based on the concept that we have to work to sustain society as a whole

if the basic needs of the entire population can be maintained through automation, it gives people real opportunity to act on self-actualization. the worth you are describing would itself be obsolete
I don't think it will happen by 2030, but as long as we all don't completely fuck it up, we will have a post-scarcity society at some point in our existence (maybe not yours and mine, of course)

Basic income is awful because in the long term, handouts are degrading to the human spirit. Any plan for basic income must allow for self-actualisation even without contributions to the economic system.

People need a narrative to live by, and it doesn't matter whether that narrative is given by pursuing education, creating artwork, playing video games, producing hand-crafted artisan biltong, chasing the wild goose of social justice, or rioting in the streets. If you don't give them a productive narrative, they'll choose a destructive one.

>With basic income you can make tens of millions of people economically active again just because the sole purpose of their work is just to provide unneded services, including social services, to the children and the pensioners.
So you're basicaly saying that basic income allows to reduce number of state servants? That is very common argument in favor of it, but I doubt that there tens of millions peolple who's work is to calculate pensions for retired.

Yeah because right now people don't bother to make more than the bare minimum right? Oh you're from a third world country, there's a surprise.

when the shovel was invented. It put hand diggers out of a job.

When the car invented. Horse stables and street shit cleaners were out of a job. Glue factories had to figure out a new recipe.

When electricity was invented. All those pitch oil lamps had to go out and along with the light, all those candle makers

When the computer was invented. Most basic organizational and accounting tasks were automated removing the need for countless typesetters and physical translators.

When they automate fast food all the major jobs will be in tech, R&D and consumer relations psychology. Engineering, maintenance and robotics.

Also, the rate of technological growth and efficiency can never ever outpace actual economic supply and demand curves. It takes a shit ton of money to make advanced tech. When it becomes more abundant, alternative market options arise due to the new utility.

3D printers put many artisan sculptors out of business. But look at the 3D printing markets now? Even amateurs can enter the market becasue of availability.

Robots will NEVER be able to outpace actual markets. The market will always adapt to the changes due to the changes in opportunities.

>b4 muh too advanced so stupid people no jobs
Smarter and simpler, more heuristic languages will be developed which will make programming remarkably simple. Educational and cultural focus will shift making techological "thought" a norm. Much like how the chinese tend to make economic thinking a norm.

I just don't see it happening with a massive population of nigs, chinks and pooinloos.

I'd be curious to see how it would work in a small town or city scenario first.

>I doubt that there tens of millions peolple who's work is to calculate pensions for retired.
Stop being ignorant and stop thinking only about the wages. Enormous amounts of money spent on the upkeep of the infrastructure that's only used by the monimum wage state workers.

>hurr when 90% of humans are made unemployed by farming equipment what are they gonna do durr
>hurr when 90% of humans are made unemployed by steam powered industrial machines what are they gonna do durr
>hurr when 90% of humans are made unemployed by AI what are they gonna do durr
Same retard different era.

if we agree that finngolids are the scum of the world, what would be your solution to deal with them?

And far from everyone of these state workers jobs is involved with pensions, give me more detailed statistics.

My god you're the dense one.
Please re-read my first post.

maybe you're not worthless (what is value) but you would be completely dependent. I'm not against automation btw., the OP makes the case about AI doing all the decisions. One possible outcome - Matrix. Another - humans purged.

I asked for detailed statistics, not the total number of teachers, doctors, police and so on lumped together. Can you provide it or not? What is exact number of state servants involved in pension system?

>potentially useful

What a fucking laugh. You know what happens to people who think they're potentially useful? In the end, they're not.

Eat shit, misanthropic Nietzsche.

>Sorry friend, but when people aren't forced to work, they don't.

This is just completely false. You have been able to live on welfare in Finland for decades if you don't want to work and throughout those decades people have consistently always looked for work. Because they either want to do something with their lives or because they want a higher standard of living.

But right now even a person who hasn't done a days work in his life can get enough money from welfare for: rent, food, supplies, other bills, a phone, internet, a cheap computer and they will still have left over money every month for alcohol. Yet people are still desperately looking for work. Welfare bums exist for sure, but they're a tiny majority.

It's probably already been said but I can't be bothered to read through the entire thread.

Basic Income is inevitable as long as mass automation of the economy continues. You can't just leave these people unemployed to starve, you either have to give them alternative employment, paid education or basic income.

The way I see it, basic income will be brought in most developed advanced economies by 2040. For example, most fast food restaurants will be run by machines, warehouses will be run by machines, public transport will be run by machines, (automated taxis, autonomous trains ect..) and so on...

So it comes down to pretty much civil unrest or basic income. I'm pretty sure basic income in the preferable option.

the all seeing eye will provide you with a pain-free pill to escape the desperation - once and for all

youtube.com/watch?v=QYy80trSPSI

>I asked for detailed statistics, not the total number of teachers, doctors, police and so on lumped together. Can you provide it or not? What is exact number of state servants involved in pension system?

The issue at hand is that there is a baseline of intelligence required to do most jobs, and that baseline is rising.

So far we have hidden this fact using the medical system, categorising many people as mentally ill when they're really just healthy and stupid. That's because the baseline is currently so low that it doesn't exclude many people from employment. The issue is that, as the baseline rises, it will come to encompass much more of the population, and we'll have to face the problem directly instead of folding it into the medical system.

TLP had a very good article about this, which he ended up taking down for some reason: web.archive.org/web/20140411002758/http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/11/the_terrible_awful_truth_about_1.html

To kill off 90% of the population so there's more room for me.

Place +90% of the population in the Matrix as fuel for the AI.

Kick outthe illegals and h1-Bs

Put americans first

Kill blacks

Then we can do universal gibs

So you can't provide the statistics. Than I have no more questions for you.

You say that like all races are the same. 1/3 of my country is on welfare, and that doesn't count the amount which are currently trying to get on it. Welfare does not give a luxurious lifestyle, yet they still stay on it.

Would you call 1/3 of the populace tiny?

>1/3 of my country is on welfare

Maybe that has something to do with your minimum wage being completely fucked.

Didn't Walmart at some point give their employees guides on how to apply for welfare or something? LMAO. America is a hellhole.

This one.

It takes time to create jobs and a lot of societies have an over-saturated job market. The answer to sustaining your society isn't then to simply cull the population. Not when the majority of resources are being funneled into the pockets of a select elite.

I'm not saying that Tyreshaniquia should be able to support 7 kids while doing nothing. But we need a solution for the transitional period, especially if automation is on the rise. Currently you have hundreds of applicants for a lot of jobs, all of them qualified.

Some industries peter out due to unforeseen circumstances, and others rely on resources from the public sector which takes forever to mobilize. There needs to be something in place for those who chosen a sensible education or worked a worthwhile profession but are unable to find a job in this transitional period. Something other than saying "tough titties" and that they should have networked harder.

>Moving,Plumbing,Electrical work,Landscaping

Actually there are many People that not only like to do these things, they sometimes to it for free.

Is it true in Sweden also? Germany? Massive portions of their population are on welfare and don't work.

Let them die. The rest of us will have a paradise to inhabit.

The welfare numbers in Sweden and Germany aren't even close to the ones in America.

But that's because everybody receives some through free healthcare and shit. It's just a better way of handling social problems than perpetuating ghetto culture.

If you try to starve me to death, because I wasn't smart enough for your society or whatever, I'm just gonna grow my own food and I'll kill you and destroy all your robots.

Why should i seek and provide data to a some retard who completely misses the point of the root argument?

Give them basic income on the condition of permanent sterilization.

Problem solved.

Look, I know all races aren't the same and that niggers etc. do abuse welfare much more than whites and asians.

My point was

>when people aren't forced to work, they don't

Is not a categorically true statement by a long shot. And you didn't even mention race in the post where you said that.

Apart from the maintenance - all those things people thought were useful but were deemed "too expensive". Will now get a chance.
That includes better use of resources.

>Just have a high trust white society bro, it's easy lol
I'm jealous of your naivete

fuck off faggot, you can literally sustain everyone on earth by subsidizing grocery stores to donate the 40% of their fresh food thrown out each month to soup kitchens instead of food stamps. problem SOLVED

Your root argument is that firing state servants involved in pension system will prowide enough money to support universal income. Regretfully, you can't provide data that supports this claim.

That is such an autistic response to a clearly generalized statement. I am aware that a small minority will work for fun, in jobs they enjoy. But communist countries had to use guns to solve the motivation problem because a large enough percentage of the population won't.

I feel like if I said the sky is blue, you would say that it isn't always 100% blue so the statement is categorically false. Such incredible autism.

this is the same type of video as this

youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

Where are these absurd accusations coming from?

He said that a lot of jobs weren't simply carried out to make a living.

Why the fuck do you think the nordic countries have a lower rate of people on welfare when you can literally live without working there?

>I am aware that a small minority will work for fun, in jobs they enjoy.

But it's not a small minority, it's most people. Most people look down on welfare bums.

And why are you only talking about the pensioners again?

To be precise, they don't work for "fun", they work to improve their quality of life and make something of themselves.

repetitious tasks you could do while drugged up

Have you considered that the reason there are less welfare bums then, is because they are shamed into working?

That's one reason, the main reasons I said here

>when

There's your answer. We aren't unemployable in the real world. If the conditions of the real world change, we'll act accordingly. See you then.

Is your welfare so bad in Finland that people can improve their quality of life by cleaning toilets for minimum wage?

>With respect to mechanisation and robots doing stuff, this is not a new problem. Are you going to tell me that dock cranes have removed teams of men lifting crates around, therefore, gibs me dat?


And it's a problem that historically has been solved by introducing the welfare state and laws that give workers rights.

>One: there will be so much wealth, people could do fuckall whatever with it and it wouldn't even matter.

Which is exactly the point, we need someway to distribute this wealth the make it useful. Otherwise we'd just get a ton of hungry out of work people.

I'm a straight white male from an upper-middle class family about to graduate with honors from an ivy league school, but don't really have a job lined up yet. Is there a way someone like me can get welfare?
I don't at all need it, but if it's available I still wanna take advantage of it.

Good, we need more white people.

Forgot to add that I'm an american, just studying in france currently

state employees are basically UBI recipients with a further purpose assigned

Why the fuck would we want to encourage useless people to procreate?

That solves nothing. It just enables them to have more kids and the problem will grow exponentially. This is not how you solve a problem it is how you exacerbate it.

You here on the news these sob stories about an employee fired for feeding the panhandlers. Well there's a reason such shit is against the rules, it encourages the cunts to come back, and they start to expect it, and it drives off paying customers.

I'm against just right out killing the useless people, and even if I wasn't it would be hard to get public support. But this way we get the same result just time shifted a little. It's humane and most importantly palatable to the voting public.

Our gibs program sucks ass, we could institute UMI with the money that is currently going to gibs and getting lost in waste fraud and abuse. This program would streamline everything, shrink the government overhead and encourage economic growth because now the neets can choose what to spend there gibs on themselves. I know a disabled lard ass who gets meals on wheels, the state pays $13 per meal. He could eat better on much less if they just gave him the money directly.

Implying rich people aren't degnerate themselves. Literally all the genderfluid trans gay potatos are from RICHER communities. This doesn't happen at all in working class/welfare communities.

Because you mentioned them first.
>social services, to the children and the pensioners

>rent, food, supplies, other bills, a phone, internet, a cheap computer and they will still have left over money every month for alcohol.

This is what I said earlier you can get with welfare. At least. So I wouldn't say it's bad.

But yes, if you scrubbed toilets full-time you'd get more money than from welfare.

>AI and robots take 90% of the jobs
>things are now extremely cheap to produce because its almost all automated
>cost of products and living now goes down
>its now far easier to be poor
>everyone lives in a NEET utopia while robots look after us like wall-e

Then you have to admit that welfare must be worse than scrubbing toilets in order for people to do it. Unless you think there are enough people in your country that would scrub toilets for fun even though it made less money than welfare.

Cleaning toilets is more than enough to get you ahead in any nordic country.

Any job, full time, is sufficient.

By your definition all people who are unemployed are useless.

That's just absurd.

as much as I want ubi to transition to some kind of robo communism I don't ever see it happening. A point will be reached where the tax burden on the corps that own all the robots will be higher than simply hiring people again. So they'll just destroy all of their robots and the software (which they hold patents for) and just give out shit tier jobs again because its cheaper than paying a mass of neets through taxes.

they will keep us enslaved working for shit tier wages forever

Why are you purposefully ignoring two other soical groups that depend on the state funding daily?

>the new jobs automation brings

Which will be what?

Scrubbing toilets is less fun than sitting on your ass at home? Is that what you want me to admit? I don't understand. I already said you'd get more money from scrubbing toilets, that's one reason people work. Others are: work ethic, peer pressure, wanting to get job experience for further careers etc.

>He said that a lot of jobs weren't simply carried out to make a living.

they are though
the reason they are still performed, is because most people don't consider the neetbux "a living"

clerks/cashiers (not sales assistants/waiters though)
fry cooks (fast food, but not actually skilled artisan cooks)
warehouse workers (possibly inventory management as well)
drivers (but not piliots, ship captains, or train operators)

however, some percentage of employees from these jobs will
hopefully find new jobs as maintenance, installation, and repair.

>Basic income is awful because in the long term, handouts are degrading to the human spirit.
This is so damn true, oh god you have no idea. Unless you are literally a soulless, passionless nihilistic cuck who can essentially say "so I'm leeching the system, so what?" you'll probably hate being given handouts.

There's only a certain type that's happy doing this and to be honest they're the least deserving of handouts.

STEM fields generally, plus education.

Technology is also increasing demand in law and finance as well.

What I want you to admit is that people are still working for financial motivation, despite the availability of welfare. Welfare, and basic income, must pay worse than anything else in order for the majority of people to do anything else.

Now you are referring to improved quality of life, not making a living.

it will be the financial crisis all over again

>two other
One is group is children, what other group you are talking about? What exact services for children do you propose to cut? Education? Healthcare? If you're proposing to make these things private, than you should have said it from the beginning.

The funny thing in the uk is you actually get a lot more money from welfare than a manual labor job lel.

Waiters would never be fully replaced.
They might disappear from diners and shit, which I'm surprised they haven't already, but not from quality restaurants.

the service industry thats not pig level

>What I want you to admit is that people are still working for financial motivation, despite the availability of welfare

Yes. But they're not forced to work, they don't need to to get by. They can live a fine existence without working. People being forced to work is what you were talking about in your original post. They don't need to be forced, they will do it for a variety of reasons even if they don't need to.

most jobs are done to get something in return. A better quality of life mostly, even though not being shamed is also a huge factor.

>vat babies
>Not wanting women with super flexible cunts and hips and thighs out to there

i'm not against it, it's a wonderful concept if only humans can take part.

Subhumans not allowed.

That is one of the major reasons for the success of capitalism. It forces people to work to improve their lives. I don't think if basic income or welfare was the top paying 'profession', the majority of people would do much else.

Yes.

So they are not just done to make a living. Even if your survival was guaranteed most people would still work for a wealth of different reasons.

Not in the gibsmedat/romani culture though.

If you support basic or universal income your understanding of reality is so fundamentally warped I'm actively afraid you may mistake me for a carrot and attempt to eat me.

2011?
Whatever happened to this? Is anyone using it yet?

What do you have against subhumans?

>confirmed for not reading last men
>hating on subhuman bros

Same communist shit every time, if people dont have to work they wont work and who will produce that basic income to NEETs then?

>What is your solution for when the AI makes +90% of the population unemployable before 2030?
You ban automation at that level.

a meritocracy. a living wage to the bottom caste frees up resources for those who want to be more, and with that more comes incentives and more reward.

nope
they released a new batch of videos though

youtube.com/watch?v=4uYkbXlgUCw

kek

>I don't think if basic income or welfare was the top paying 'profession', the majority of people would do much else.

Yeah me neither, glad we agree.

It's vaporware.
It's the kind of shit that gets one "tech demo" video out to gather venture capitalist funding and vanishes into obscurity.

youtube.com/watch?v=5AvCxa9Y9NU

I think most non-burgers agree that some degree of basic income is desirable, only not in the form of cash-handout.

Rather guaranteed health, food/water and basic shelter/amenities.

This is more accurate

Stupid. That will not solve the resource depletion on the planet, it will make it worse.

...

...

Robots would be infinitely better than human waitstaff.

>no errors
>no tips
>no fucking with food

I support basic income on a philosophical level, and I am not very well versed in economics, but wouldn't handing out a living wage to everybody cause insane levels of inflation and devalue whatever currency is being handed out, there in negating the value of the basic income?

Someone with more economics knowledge please clarify if this is a legitimate concept.

no, but they're also not doing them "for fun" without financial and social rewards.

People will still want to work even if it's only to impress a girl or something. If basic income will allow everyone to drive a 'robo-Ford 1000' you might still want a more luxurious car.

>basic income must pay worse than anything
I do not agree here. Basic Income should and must cover all basic needs fully. No more an no less. That's the whole point of it.

unless we put breeding and technological constraints on them it's not worth it. They're not capable of rising above their animal urges and have no place in a utopia. Especially when robots will replace everything they're capable of in due time. with proper eugenics and brain chemical control we can successfully exterminate them peacefully.

are people really this stupid?

>ignoring human intuition

Yup lets just throw the entire species into the trash. Were done here.

Its easy as fuck to employ everyone
make booze factories and you'll create a lot of jobs and also happy people.

Don't underestimate the power of alcohol.

>robots
>no errors

Really?

At any rate people would prefer being served by humans. If waiter-errors are your greatest concern then they are alleviated at any restaurant that's not mcdonalds.

No, but that was never the argument in the first place. You're moving the goalpost trying to get some concession.

You're referring to groups of people you don't like.

I was referring to actual subhumans.

>You're moving the goalpost

No, I'm not moving goalposts, see:

>>I am aware that a small minority will work for fun, in jobs they enjoy.

>But it's not a small minority, it's most people.

I probably clicked on the wrong post if you're not of that opinion.

The welfare state, along with multiculturalism and globalism has had the polar opposite effect. People are less likely to self-improve, meet people or help the community today than in the past. All they care about is "enjoyment", which means wasting away in front of their computer and becoming obese, socially awkward creatures, or partying until they destroy themselves. Also, look at the whole social justice movement. It's about the opposite of self-improvement. It's about embracing sloth, gluttony and hedonism. It's about accepting everything, so that even the most lazy, rotten, morally corrupt person can feel good about themselves. Without work, people lose their sense of responsibility.

Back in the 50s, all the things on the right were actually quite common.
People went out to meet people because there wasn't much to do at home. They either hung out with their neighbours or went to the park. It was also much more common to help the community, because you were friends with the neighbours and there was a much greater sense of regional and national unity.

Looking at pictures or movies from the 40s and 50s really is depressing, whether they're from Norway or America. Society just seemed to make much more sense back then.

why would unemployed people starve if all the food is being made by robots making the cost virtually free?

and just look at the time of the greeks
when there aren't available jobs, money goes to the arts, philosophers, and academia in general

Yeah it's basically not a legitimate concept. It's in the same category as free college and free health care and pretty much everything else the far left comes up with in that it is something that sounds like it would be a good idea because it would involve everyone getting free stuff for doing nothing but exist, but it is actually a terrible idea because it would be impossible to pay for.

The left doesn't care. They are not in the business of coming up with practical ideas. They just dream up impossible utopias, spread the idea of their impossible utopia until people start dreaming about what life would be like in their impossible utopia instead of dealing with life as it actually exists, and then when they have enough of them they all take to the streets and start demanding that the government implement their impossible utopia.

As far as precisely how it should be implemented, they don't know. It's the government's job to figure all that complicated stuff out. They just need to figure it out, because if they don't the left is going to keep whining and protesting and shitting all over the sidewalk. Pretty soon celebrities will start to get involved, and join the protesters and draw a lot of publicity and attention to their cause. They don't care, they have piles and piles of money and most of them don't even have the slightest idea where they got it from.

The voting age should be raised to 35.

too low
put it to 65 and see how things go

>because it would be impossible to pay for.

What about all those countries where those policies have been implemented for decades without anything catastrophic happening?

Also, when work isn't required as a means to survive, you end up with people who enjoy servitude working as waiters... IE, better service from people who WANT to be there.

ughh... you guys are so silly sometimes. Full throttled automation will not be allowed by the government. It will continue to flourish up untill a certain point.
That point is when the government says
"Hey we cant tax machines."

automation then becomes EXTREMELY regulated.

Government cant tax machines, youre all foolish tin heads.

What country has successfully implemented universal basic income?

Nice dodging attempt buddy, but you said free healthcare/college were in the "same category" and "impossible to pay for"

They'll just rights and equal pay to machines, than machines will start living on welfare, just like niggers did.

Whatever you want to believe fucking leaf, Turdeau will flood your shithole with rapefuges anyways.

>give rights
Fix.

even better idea: let people have their gross incomes without having to pay into any ponzi wealth redistribution scheme
1st statement is true
2nd statement is false: there never was a commie country ever (according to need...according to ability), closest they got was state capitalism which is roughly what we're all experiencing today even though it's sugar-coated as anything but centrally planned economy

>Really?
Less errors than people? Yes.

>At any rate people would prefer being served by humans.
I don't go out to eat to interact with the waitstaff. I am there with/for someone and that is who I want to spend my time conversing with. A robot I can just give my order to and ignore, or correct if necessary, without hassle or worrying about their treatment of my food is a huge improvement.

>If waiter-errors are your greatest concern then they are alleviated at any restaurant that's not mcdonalds.
It isn't my greatest concern, but if we remove human error it is "better".

I also believe we should ban such automation for the sake of society.

>2nd statement is false: there never was a commie country ever (according to need...according to ability), closest they got was state capitalism which is roughly what we're all experiencing today even though it's sugar-coated as anything but centrally planned economy

there were these times when the military was sent to the fields to work them to avert a famine

not sure what you would call that

I would completely agree that a sense of purpose and belonging is important to the human experience, and that much of this is lost in modern western culture.
The real challenge with UBI or UMI is evading normalization of degeneracy such as we have at the present.
we'd see a rise in available security jobs or improvements to machine durability against physical attacks... potentially also transition to a rise in "card/paychip only" facilities, where no cash is kept on site. Funding arts, academia, and philosophers provides people with a sense of purpose and value, good.
People are limited by their own perceptions and experiences, often having a difficult time accepting that something different or unfamiliar to them has worked or could possibly work.

Saudi Arabia.

And their country is even shitter because of it. Nobody wants to do low paying or dangerous jobs. Those workers have to be imported from abroad.

People who do high paying jobs are incompetent and lazy. Most of the country's critical infrastructure is being held together by western workers.

Instead of spending their basic income supported free time on developing arts, sciences and crafts Saudis choose to literally shit on prostitutes.

military engineers built the infrastructure in the middle of nowhere in former Yugoslavia, things like roads, grid, sewage and water distribution systems

at the same time the military was number 1 receiver of budget funds by a large margin so it is not really fair to address them as some kind of a saviour

Not a dodging attempt; if anything you're the one dodging, since you refused to answer my question. The topic being discussed is universal basic income.

However, to answer your question, I was talking specifically about the United States. I have no idea how universal single-payer health care works in Finland or any of the other cucked Norse countries, but in the United States it would be a disaster. The level of socialism we've already tried to implement with Obamacare is already collapsing under its own weight due to the massive amounts of money insurers are being forced to hemmorhage out in free health care for low/no income people. Education would be the same thing; at its current cost it would be completely impossible to provide free college for everyone in America. If European countries are able to do that sort of thing for their populations then fine, but it would just plain not work over here. We can barely support the welfare state we already have, quite frankly.

Also, from what I've heard, most of the Nordic countries are currently trying to dismantle their welfare states anyway, precisely because they're too expensive. I've also heard that the quality of healthcare is shit in most countries with free healthcare.

>what is incentive
KYS.

this is bullshit

only 16% of labor force works for government (uncluding state corporations), 84% in private sector.

basic income is just money printing, debt and additional taxes - its a step to nowhere that will make goods uncompetitive

Jews and top 0,001% want to introduce basic income to destroy savings of middle class

Maybe you should work on reducing your absurd healthcare costs then.

Oh but wait, you don't mind being completely cucked by companies, it's only government cuckery that bothers you.

You have no argument founded in reality.

Fixed

>destroy savings of middle class
ZIRP and NIRP are already doing a fine job with that

If I had basic income I wouldn't work and I assume nobody else would

If by being cucked by companies you mean paying more for premium services then no, I don't mind, because I can afford them on account of my not being a lazy, useless walking vagina who lives off of government income. I don't need government healthcare because I'm able to get a job that comes with a benefits package. I don't need free college because I went to a cheap school and chose a major that actually has a career path attached to it, so my loans aren't that big and paying them off hasn't been much of a problem.

This is kind of my whole point; that people should stop dreaming about what life would be like if the government just took care of them all the time and just learn to take care of themselves. It's honestly much easier to just expend some effort and learn to solve your own problems than it is trying to round people up to start a "political revolution". Black people in America have basically been living off the government for close to half a century now, and their lives haven't gotten any better, nor do they expend much energy on "self improvement" or "helping their community". Living off of a large welfare state just turns people into lazy, complacent sheep who can't do anything for themselves because they've never had to.

You would, trust me.

I had neetbux for about 6 years and at first I used it on shit, then I used it on stuff to learn programming and 3D, and reading etc, because I just didn't have enough junk to buy to spend it all and now I'm earning about 60k a year. You get bored just buying junkfood and DVD's all day.

If I had of just been kicked out without benefits, I'd probably still be stacking shelves at Tesco, going nowhere.

For this reason I'm all for it. But then again I wasn't some weed smoking roadman twat like most people seem to be now.

such way they help western companies not to lose market, that is different

basic income and similar slow monetary and fiscal apocalipsis will make everything worse.

only jews and the richest may want it as they have all assets in business and goldshekels

Yes, these look like completely reasonable prices for 1 days stay at a hospital. Not inflated at all. Gotta get that "premium service".

I'm LMAO'ing at your life kid

...

>I'm LMAO'ing at your life kid

Lol ok. Have fun.

Sure, when AI makes 90% of the population unemployable,we will consider it. Because the entire concept of economics would have changed by then. Until then fuck off.

You already get more than what you would get as a basic income,simply bc of the fact that you live in a 1st world country, so the things you(entitled non-contributor) think are natural occurring phenomena,like police/firemen, infrastructure,social services,healthcare etc cost a lot more per capita than whatever pittance neetbux you dream of.

Less work hours

>more than half of American blacks will never work because they know how to play the system for a few dollars to stay alive
>I wonder what would happen to millions of whites and Mexicans as well...

Blacks are slinging dope, are drunk, are committing crimes, or are just hanging out doing nothing of importance. They are definitely not enriching themselves or helping the community. The only new people they're meeting are those they're victimizing. Fuck basic income, you need a strong, homogenous society to make it work, and the USA is not currently in the proper condition.

That won't happen

The top countries by birthrate are from Africa.

Rip in pieces your argument.
You tried though.

The abuse is incredible. Almost 80% of blacks with children are on welfare, and that doesn't include the many which are trying to get on it and awaiting approval.

>NEETbux4all

Get a job, hippie.

>Dungeons and Dindus

Bread and circuses, user. From the days of ancient Rome, it has been recognised that if you don't force people to do something, they are quite happy to just sit there and waste their lives away.

I'm for a basic income when AI is advanced enough, but it has to be connected to self-improvement/community work, etc, otherwise people are not going to do anything. Have something like a point scheme, $10 a week for every class you pass, or every 5 hours of exercise you do, etc.

Spotted the unimaginative unprogressive oldfag

>muh manual labour

The point here is that when the only non automated jobs will be less than 15%, the salaries for them will be astronomical. You would be licking ducks' assholes 24/7 if you would get payed 15$ million per year

take all those shots with a grain of salt, there's a reason none of them are of the entire sheet of paper where it says that insurance company is billed x and the user is billed y; overregulation and interest groups keep the prices inflated in order to squeeze the max out of everyone

no different than Euro healthcare ponzi schemes, really; in both cases we have the users=patients, providers=hospitals/clinics and customers=insurance companies

>$15,000,000 a year to lick duck assholes
Oh, you crazy Jews, you crack me up sometimes. The wacky shit you think we'll swallow, and the sad thing is, most of the time you're right.

>Open the borders
>Bring in ultra-high birth rate, 3rd world immigrant groups
>Immediately roll out more generous welfare benefits

There's no way this could go wrong

Who said it needs to be 8 hours?

basic income would unleash a migration wave bigger than anything we've ever seen. every poor fucker from every shithole around the world (include poor EU countries) would rush to the country that has basic income. how are you gonna stop them? tell them they're not gonna get it? oh yeah i'm sure they'll listen, just look at all those millions of refugees who came anyway. you can't stop it unless you build a gigantic wall and have incredibly harsh immigration laws.

also sooner or later basic income exceptions would be made (some people need more than others) which effectively turns it into just another form of welfare. it is quite possibly the dumbest shit i've ever heard. the fact that i had to spend 2 min typing this shit enrages me.

That guy had to pay $11,119.53 because he got appendicitis. After insurance (see pic).

Here's another cool fact about the great American insurance system

>Our most recent study found that nearly two-thirds of Americans who declared bankruptcy cited illness or medical bills as a significant cause (PDF) of their bankruptcies. And of the medically bankrupt, three-quarters of that group had insurance, at least when they first got sick.

>We found two categories of problems. Some people were too sick to work and lost their jobs. Along with their jobs, they lost their insurance. The second group had continuous coverage, but their policies had so many co-pays, deductibles and loopholes that they were bankrupted in spite of having coverage. Most of those who declared bankruptcy were in the latter group.

prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/insured-but-bankrupted-anyway/?_r=0

This is why the age pyramid is one of the worst lies there is.

...

>implying sanitation worker wages wouldn't go through the roof
didn't think that one through all the way did we?

I'd happily sanitate shit if the small wage cleaners are paid was topped with UBI.

nakedcapitalism.com/2015/01/the-failure-of-a-past-basic-income-guarantee-the-speenhamland-system.html

It doesn't work. Also, AI won't affect the demand for labour, ony idiots and ideologues think it will.

>Muh robots
>Muh automation

>Implying there is only a finite amount of work to do
>Implying that all the jobs we have and know about now are all the jobs we will ever have

Robots and as automation boosts global economic growth, improves production and increases the general welfare of the global population.
There will always be work to do as we will create it.

>oy vey the men in the factories working 12 hours a day produced substandard products I tell you schlomo it was annuda shoah

>does not understand shit about economics

The point is not literally that there would be SPECIFICALLY not enough sanitation workers, but that supply and demand could not work as intended. People working jobs that consist of favorable activity would never be forced be financial necessity to leave their profession. This will create a shortage of laborers in jobs consisting of less favorable activity

Now, you say that the compensation for those jobs will "go through the roof" to correct this. That's true, but you're ignoring the point you made yourself. The compensation will "go through the roof". sanitation now costs so much more than it is should. This, like everything else, has an opportunity cost. Not only are you subsidizing a lopsided distribution of labor, you are spending more money where it probably doesn't need to be spent to correct the problem that you yourself created and therefor spending less money elsewhere.

and now your economy is spending far more money in sanitation than it needs to. The opportunity cost from that is enough of a problem, but it will probably now cost businesses more to take out the trash, adding unnecessary costs to them and restricting growth because 50% of the workforce are shitposters

India won't have this problem

This isn't true.

This is why we have decent wages for santitation workers here. I understand that it doesn't always work that way but it's not completely unrealistic either. Especially when it's happening in 3-4 countries.

I'll cram my teleporting machine into my flying car and go explore the galaxy with it. Sorry, but there are problems that need to be solved today--like Jamal mugging you just as he was about to get his life on track, or Achmed blowing you up after he walks across your borderless country--and this silly hypothetical seems kind of pointless by comparison to real problems. I'm sure it's a good question to ask in California though.

Basic income will only come after at LEAST 75% of labor-based jobs are taken my robots.

Things like engineering, many of the sciences, and other professions that require original thought will remain human-held jobs and the people working them SHOULD be regarded as the highest class of person, the best of society.

kek no one considers stem autists on top of the societal chain
niggers who get paid to chase a ball will always be better regarded than your creepy and pale physics professor
deal with it nerd

lol this basically means that ill be watching movies, reading books and smoking weed all day.

at least i admit it.

but right now since i "need money to live" im developing software people can use.

another thing to keep in mind is that burgers that have insurance are thus invested into taking advantage of said insurance; if the benefits their employer offers were paid out as a part of the regular salary, you bet your ass free market would rule and, considering high costs from your pic related, would stimulate medical tourism into other countries for non-emergency treatment

your pic related also does not show the whole picture insofar how much coverage there is, the contract itself; to illustrate in something we all can relate to: full coverage for car accidents that can be such without any deductible (no additional cost to use it), 1% deductible (1% charge of the new vehicle value), 10% deductible (10% charge of new vehicle value) - if that makes sense

thats why i said SHOULD.

I already know we will continue worshipping niggers tossing around a ball and whores doing dumb shit on camera for at least the next 500 years.

Sorry to burst your bubble but aircraft can and already do fly themselves. I'm currently in an aviation program and even from my limited exposure to the industry, commercial liners pretty much fly themselves most of the time and as people have been saying, it's only a matter of time before they get cheap enough to do it on a universal level.

But I have a feeling that the lack of human input in this supposed future economy will be its own undoing. It seems to me that is likely to cause an implosion due to the lack of productivity needed. We only need a certain amount of work to be done in order to sustain ourselves and keep ourselves entertained. In surpassing that I feel that it's likely that economies will collapse due to lack of productivity. Markets are driven by a need to supply. What happens when we over supply by such an impossibly large margin?

guys, you're all fucking retarded and this thread is proof that the simplest, most elegant solution is free markets. you've never seen a free market in your life, but there is surely no better solution.

You dumb piece of shit. I'm not talking about sanitation workers SPECIFICALLY,. I'm using them as an example. And yes, it is true that if you are paying sanitation workers more then you are not spending that money elsewhere.

>3-4 countries
tiny countries in europe that don't have to pay for their own defense and have a minuscule, white population, I imagine.

yes, lord marketâ„¢ will fix it

We have both flying cars and jetpacks. It just turns out they are both too expensive and pointless in practice.

Also jetpacks have a habit of killing their pilots really easily.

CAN'T WAKE UP

>Mother Jones

>Implying 'money to survive' isn't a meme

computers have quadruples in processing power since the 1970s. You may not have noticed it yet, but your computer is already making schemes to get rid of you.

>money
>not a meme currency