Look man I'm just here for the tits, and I don't feel comfortable with that bait n switch you pulled here
Evan Thompson
I can't. It's flawless.
Blake Bennett
wow i hate atheists now
James Torres
Well then my bait should be easily refutable, go ahead.
Easton Jackson
> let me start my argument of with an assumption
This is why you Christian fucks never win debates
Maybe you will learn one day
Most likely not though
William Foster
>Given: >1 something cannot give (in other words cause) something it doesn't have >2 the physical things that form to make a person do not have personhood in them >Given: >4. Personhood does exist. How do you prove that ?
Thomas Hernandez
I can't wait to see her BLACKED.com
Ayden Long
...
Owen Lewis
>Given
You mean 'mindlessly assumed'
Jackson Ross
>logic you worship so much Atheists don't care about logic further than this >Does it inhibit my degeneracy? y/n? Am I forced to continue being inhibited? y/n?
Landon Campbell
Prove your first assumption then we talk.
Nathaniel Harris
No so fast cuckboy
Luke Bell
Wow Such logic much compelling Very reason Wow
Evan Davis
By this logic, wooden pieces don't have "chairhood" in them and therefore cannot combine to form a chair.
I'm not even atheist.
Daniel Ward
4. is proven by every person to themselves. I'm sorry, mr. NPC cattlegoy-san. >1. something cannot give (in other words cause) something it doesn't have That's the foundation of logic. 1 =/= 2, it can't therefore give anything the same principle effects as 2. >x+1 =/= x+2 >Energy in, energy out - no extra. etc. >2. The physical things that form to make a person do not have personhood in them If they do, the personhood was relevant and active during the big bang, giving rise to all matter... Not a very safe space for atheists to argue over this. Instead, atheists should argue that nothing can create something, and 1 can become 2. That way, measurable movements and chemical reactions can cause butthurt.
Gabriel Ross
If personhood doesn't exist, human rights don't exist and murder doesn't exist
even if it doesn't exist naturally, our laws are predicated on it existing synthetically
once again, though, all of our law systems depend on different axioms. If you believe people can morally be sacrificed for the good of the whole, then you have a lot less to justify (abortion is better for the whole) than someone who believes humans should be guaranteed their right to life (a fetus is not a person)
Brandon Rivera
What a broad generalization you got there.
Carson Wilson
No, I'm fairly sure it is 'mindfully assumed'.
Andrew Edwards
> the physical things that form to make a person do not have personhood in them Cool assumption bro. Basically, ghosts exist therefore ghosts exist.
Cameron Flores
also to add to OP's point
how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?
Nathan White
Too bad atheism got trendy, eh? Islam causes terror and violence, atheism causes degeneracy. Be the special snowflake exception, but do not wear it as a banner.
Isaac Thomas
No need for all of that; reality itself BTFOs fedoras.
Noah Reyes
Fuck off finnfuck why aren't you out sucking Muslim cock?
>euro calling Americans degenerate
Ok buddy whatever you say
Logan Lee
When is she doing that naked video about voting?
Jeremiah Jones
>physical things There is no matter, there is only energy vibrating at different frequencies, hence your whole hypothesis is wrong. Also consciousness. Now fuck off with your gay gods, faggot.
Jackson Rivera
I can refute that with a single statement.
>full of shit
Michael Bennett
Atheists =/= Americans
Blake Jackson
That's pretty much what it boils down to. They don't want to be held accountable for their actions, and they'll be quick to tell you how very moral they are based on their subjective standards.
Christian Robinson
wtf I'm a scientologist now
Nicholas Gonzalez
Bullshit. You can make what you don't have and give it. You can't prove the existence of souls.
Kevin Ramirez
>If personhood doesn't exist, human rights don't exist and murder doesn't exist
Oh, well then better start murdering people, huh? It's not like not murdering is also based in irrational drives or anything like that, it's just those darned logic machines and axioms in my head that keep me from going postal on everything
Benjamin Cooper
At least use someone else's arguments, yours are shit.
The physical things that form to make a computer also don't have the property of a computer, nigger.
Also, the fuck is 'personhood'? I could say 'carhood' embodies the physical properties of a car too, faggot.
Oliver King
>You can make what you don't have and give it. When arguing over principles such as 1+1=2, it is always an argument with limited factors. You can't just add stuff to it, like 1+100+1=2 and still get away with it. >You can't prove the existence of souls. I am the user of my body, not a mindless process in it. That's what 'soul' means, regardless of whether it is emergent-based or connection-based.
Carson Garcia
I notice no one has refuted my objection.
Because it's not refutable. Let the thread die please.
Dylan Price
So if a "carhood" property cannot exist, a car cannot be stolen, robbed, or crashed?
Asher Edwards
I'm accountable for my actions before the society, not before some hypothetical God.
Define objective moral.
Matthew Jones
>yet another atheism thread
Aaron Mitchell
I think his point was you created carhood. Carhood couldn't have created itself, it needed a creator, hence god creating personhood. I'm on no side of this debate, I'm just not a total retard.
you argue like every pussy christian that knows they lost an argument. stop being a faggot and address the issues directly.
Jaxson Cruz
>By this logic, wooden pieces don't have "chairhood" in them and therefore cannot combine to form a chair. You are correct. A chair is born in our minds.
Ethan Perez
The body is secular from the soul People who argue about the soul and attack atheists on this basis rather than focussing on problems one could solve because they exist in the real world are most likely religious and will waste your time arguing by mostly mis-interpretation of a certain book.
Kayden Kelly
>something cannot give (in other words cause) something it doesn't have but its made of something that can be used to make up another thing.
>the physical things that form to make a person do not have personhood in them Personhood isn't a substance, wtf kind of premise is this?
Nathaniel Long
>those lines
she's aging like milk
Easton Ramirez
You don't seem to understand very well mathematics. Anyway. We were talking about personhood, not numbers.
Camden Hernandez
hahahahaha
Daniel Ward
What always seems to be left out of these discussions is how matter itself breaks these properties. It cannot be destroyed, it cannot be created. It always is, and so it is the origin for everything else.
Easton Sanchez
Also >I am the user of my body, not a mindless process in it. That's what 'soul' means, regardless of whether it is emergent-based or connection-based. That's what you think, that's not a proof
Chase Thompson
>You don't seem to understand very well mathematics. When you lay out an equation, you move external factors equally to both sides. You don't, however, get to change the rules. Math, physics etc. are reductionist sciences, where limiting the amount of variables is key.
Andrew Morales
>That's what you think, that's not a proof Define soul, now. I don't think anybody has ever had a better definition than "the user".
Chase Rogers
You must be one of those rare true-retards.
I'm honored to have had a sighting.
Jace Parker
>math is science No
James Long
>personhood does exist In what sense? Prove it. Nobody should bother "refuting" this is you haven't even attempted to support your premises. Not only is OP a faggot, but also lazy and stupid.
Wyatt Moore
yeah use ad-homs. it's all you've got.
David Hughes
>logic couse that's what religion rests on
Jeremiah Gonzalez
A soul is "the user". I don't think there is anything driving my body besides my brain. And nobody has ever proven that there is something else than our brain
Luke Carter
True, I can not give a fuck about your argument because I do not have a fuck about your argument to give. Sound logic user.
Wyatt Flores
You didn't understand #2 for whatever reason. Your escape from 4 implies that you are a lesser being or rather, a non-being or a craven coward. Personhood is either the emergent consciousness or the soul. The user of the body, the actor in this (quantum)clockwork universe.
Gavin Phillips
>all these kikes trying to make us believe in their imaginary friend
Kayden Robinson
Mfw so many Americucks actually belive in this shit
Hunter Foster
>I don't think there is anything driving my body besides my brain. "I don't think." You mean your brain thinks? You see, you and your brain, they are two separate things. You don't live on autopilot, as every function driven by brain alone, does. Some of the automated features, you can even turn off, like breathing. Heartbeat, though, is out of bounds, you need to use external software (chemicals or physics) to change heartbeat.
Sebastian Miller
Ikr
Jonathan Brown
>kikes trying to make you believe that you aren't just an automaton meant to serve them by paying taxes and buying their shitty products because it causes pleasant tingling somewhere
Kevin Davis
ITT fedora tippers on damage control.
Colton Hall
Explain this
Josiah Evans
>You mean your brain thinks? Yes
Julian Wright
>Remove yourself from the equation because you want to believe that you do not actually exist as an actor, but as a part of the machine around you I can operate systems manually. If it was all driven by the brain itself, it'd be autopilot. If you are on permanent autopilot, I guess you're just an npc.
Adrian Kelly
Believe what you want to believe, just don't pester me with it after I told you I don't believe it. Then let's talk about politics because religion belongs on /his/.
Oliver Smith
>You will never suck on those juicy melons.
Brandon Sullivan
define personhood
Connor Jenkins
I guess you can say it that way.
Nathaniel Kelly
Those are some nice tits
Jeremiah Lewis
Soul, user of the body, narrator in your stream of information.
Dominic Lopez
>religion belongs on /his/ If only that was true ...
Nicholas Collins
Atheists = Czechs
Samuel Flores
Then all of the society would be atomized, and no cohesive group aside from Muslims could ever rise up in Europe. Religion serves a function in society, and namely that function is to share and enforce values amongst the group. Peer pressure can never do it alone, as every single group pushes to separate directions on this.
This is also the reason for all religious wars and their severity.
Julian Peterson
/thread
Evan Carter
My god she's hot.
Nevermind me, I'm fapping to this thread now. I'll read what you wrote in a sec OP
Nicholas Thomas
why can't physical things like electrical signals and chemical reactions make a "narrartor in your stream of information"?
Justin Allen
can't define something into existence ontological arguments btfo teleological arguments btfo
try again op-senpai
James Murphy
>1 something cannot give (in other words cause) something it doesn't have Wrong, virtual particles
>2 the physical things that form to make a person do not have personhood in them Pan-psychics like myself would disagree, although we haven't actually solved the combination problem in a satisfactory manner.
Let me help you out with your argument. You are basically just saying qualia is non-physical and so the hard problem of consciousness exists. The physicalists argument is that qualia is a product of the brain, usually pointing to the neurons that observe the other neurons, basically causing meta thinking. Of course they don't quite grasp what qualia is if they believe that.
lern2philosiphy scrub
Xavier Peterson
Well I believe that to be the case and my beliefs should be respected, otherwise I'll throw a tantrum crying about how I'm being persecuted and make another thread saying people who think differently are idiots who deserve to be hanged by the balls and to prove me wrong (protip you can't lel).
Zachary Nelson
>1 something cannot give (in other words cause) something it doesn't have
>smoke does not have fire so fire can't cause or give smoke
Blake Campbell
Only niggers need religion to have values.
Xavier Parker
I keep trying to make an omelette but none of the constituent parts can cause an omelette on their own. It's fuckin impossible.
Sebastian Evans
>fapping
enjoy your ED, hedonist.
Ryder Perry
This is why it should be plainly clear (but axiomatic) that n-hood EXISTS. Carhood exists because we know of cars exist. Personhood exists because we know persons exist.
The debate, then, is not whether personhood exists but WHEN it exists and what causes it to exist.
Brandon Torres
He was not chosen by God, he is a heretic
Nolan Nelson
Is this how you think logic works?
Tyler Thomas
>He was not chosen by God If we waited for him to actually make a choice, we'd have to wait a long time since, you know, he isn't fucking real. Now show me your fedora folder.
Blake Powell
>why can't physical things like electrical signals and chemical reactions make a "narrartor in your stream of information"? Because they can only be that stream of information. Never the reader or user of such. Because we are categorically higher than it. Although I admit the possibility (and even likelihood) of consciousness being an emergent property, it will only move the potential of it to the source of it all.
As we know, matter is quite simple and mathematical. It doesn't have consciousness unless arranged properly and with all the right types involved, and even then it requires plenty. Now, the emergent properties flow nicely and logically, and they never create anything actually new, but something that was laid out as a possibility in the beginning. >We know this because when creating new type of such property, we can do it again, and the result won't be random. >ie. it follows a law Therefore, since we have an actor/narrator involved, it was either as a property in the source or it is a property in every part. It isn't a property in every part, but only a very specific collection of such parts.
The logic works with energy, mass and chemistry. If the narrator is, however, metaphysical, and brains are merely our antennae to it, then we should be discussing metaphysics straight from the get go.
Joshua Long
To SHARE values. How many of your kinsmen do you agree with?
Ayden Ramirez
You sound like a faggot.
Kayden Ward
Atheist 4ever faggot
Josiah Myers
Number 2 is wrong and you're a fucking retard.
Jonathan Powell
Then my impersonation of a religious person was perfect.
Joseph Ross
How is he less chosen by God than the previous popes ?
Logan Myers
So this means one of the religions Neanderthals made up is correct???
Nolan Baker
>pantheism >all matter has personhood Then it should be measurable. ..but how?
Ayden Cox
>Try to refute this(protip you can't)
Tyler Diaz
I'm tired, I didn't see the sarcasm.
Blake Lewis
>If the narrator is, however, metaphysical, and brains are merely our antennae to it, then we should be discussing metaphysics straight from the get go.
>argument is like a game >you should win in it Law analogy would be better, as it would enforce the servitude to methodology rather than "winning". (Since losing a proper argument results in increased knowledge.)
Samuel Sanchez
>not being a hedonist atheist in 2016 when the world is falling apart anyway It's 12 PM on a monday and I'm about to get high and drunk, I pity you fags
Owen Powell
lmaoing at your life I agree, but there are conservative atheists that appreciate Christian values even though they don't think they are a holy truth.
t.me
Logan Turner
...
Xavier Reyes
How many shekels did they pay you to post this?
Samuel Bennett
We don't know enough about the human brain. I guess the real question is does consciousness come from inside the brain or is the brain just a receiver of consciousness.
I don't know. All I know is that personhood vanishes pretty quickly when the brain is fucked, so one could argue that personhood comes from the brain. Unfortunately that still doesn't answer the question.
Leo Gonzalez
>fedora01.jpg Go on, dump the rest of your folder.
John Howard
Jesus man. Take a fucking biology course.
Michael Smith
>it's all in the brain >we don't know about the brain Then the answer to issues (hopefully pic related) could instead be just to change the chemical mixture in your brain. I don't think that is a valid course of action... But it could just be that my chemical mixture hasn't been upgraded yet.
Jonathan Roberts
>nothing can exist without a cause >except god
Daniel Butler
It's not the brain that sees beauty, but us. I think poets would be better suited to talk of it than I am..
Brody Ortiz
Bible has plenty of parts that I don't like. >don't be lazy >don't be cynical >be in control >always do the right thing >be perfect
Brayden Cook
But we are our brains just as much as our bodies. I have no idea what you're talking about now. What is us, if it's not our physical bodies?
Ayden Reyes
But math is bullshit. 0.9999...=1 is true as well, though wrong from a logical point of view.
Kayden Thomas
Finir les cours à 18h ça aide pas
Isaiah Campbell
Youre approaching this from a western pov. If you study the Old Testament, you will learn the difference between what God chooses and what God allows as a result of sustained apostasy.
God allows some leaders to reign as a punishment. God allowed the masons to take over the Roman Catholic Church as a response to the failure of the church to expel the masonic elements from their ranks and label them anathema. Now, the mass has been perverted and there is a massive push for acceptance of heretics and sodomites alike.
We must pray for the falling church. May they abandon the heresies they have accumulated and return to the true faith.
Brayden Scott
>What is us, if it's not our physical bodies? I don't know. Real brains in a jar, connected to this matrix? Abstract, patternless existences interacting with what they can? We could be an idea, realized by others...
>nothing can exist without a cause >except god No. This world was caused, and therefore needs an uncaused cause. Either with multiple separate phases in-between this world and the unmoved mover, or without. Nothing dictates (not even religion) that God would be the only uncaused existence. You just made that up so that you can pretend to be superior.
Robert Moore
>But math is bullshit. 0.9999...=1 is true as well No, it is false, but we use approximations because we can ignore small factors.
Angel Robinson
There are different parts of the brain, retards. "Autopilot" and "Thinking" are managed by different parts of the brain, they are different concepts but both are handled by the brain.
Connor Young
>We could be an idea, realized by others... Pointless hypothetical...
Eli Watson
>No, it is false No it's true. You'd know it if you had studied maths.
Liam Perez
>we must pray Great plan, I'm sure it will change everything.
Oliver Ramirez
>No it's true. You'd know it if you had studied maths. 1/3 =/= 0.3333.... 0.3333... is an approximation due to the limitations of our writing (imprinting meaning/information on symbols).
Aaron Long
>Pointless hypothetical... I don't exactly know where to start. Aside from the fact that we can open the Schrödinger's box (like every player can in every game with random elements), it is wild territory for me.
Brody Perry
Atheists are much more prone to depression and other anxiety related shit.
Suicides are off the scale the more secularized countries.
William Cooper
Whereas you are correct, I have my own murder planned this week. I just don't see the point in being here.
Charles James
firm suckleable bait
Adrian Reyes
Wrong. Fuckwit confirmed.
Luis Sanchez
He's right though, infinitesimal doesn't real >1/3 = 0.333... >3* 1/3 = 0.999... At the same time 1/3*3 = 3/3 = 1 1 = 0.999...
You should use fractions if you want an accurate value, as everything after the decimal point is an approximation.
Josiah Moore
I totally fucked up the formatting in that post though, hopefully you catch my drift
Noah Watson
Cause is such a bad word. Time (and physics in general) break down if you go back far enough (approximately 5.39116*10^-44s), so causality is void at that point.
and young, soft, firm, tender, young, suckable bait
Xavier Watson
Atheists =/= Logic
Gavin Baker
>can only be that stream of information. Never the reader or user of such. Because we are categorically higher than it
I still don't see why thoughts can't originate in a physical state. You're basically saying god exists because our consciousness is better than matter. What makes consciousness better than matter?
>Therefore, since we have an actor/narrator involved, it was either as a property in the source or it is a property in every part. It isn't a property in every part, but only a very specific collection of such parts
Let's say and earthquake happens and limestone (a base) falls into some naturally occurring acidic water creating CO2. Limestone doesn't have oxygen and water doesn't have carbon, but if they each lend parts they create something new. Neither completely have it to begin with but together they are able to make it. Why can't the many different material properties of human lend themselves to make consciousness?
Jacob Rivera
You can also smell the faint perfume of her bosom from your monitor.
Luke Smith
What makes premise 1 true of all things? Seems like you're assuming a god in premise 1
Oliver Rodriguez
your assumptions are dumb
why cant I give you something I dont have?
Jaxson Murphy
>By this argument the universe has a creator .Therefore YHWH exists and the Bible is literally true
Jaxson Lewis
...
Justin Robinson
>What makes consciousness better than matter? I said higher, not better. Higher means more options available to us. Or rather, there are no options available to lesser existences. They have a pattern, they follow it by the law and that is it. We can choose.. Only addicts might not fit the definition.
Sebastian Butler
>I can just ignore all evidence pointing to the direction of a creator, because it might not necessarily validate any ideology
Austin Parker
>We can choose That`s a very big assumption you make there.
Jeremiah Clark
...
Colton Ramirez
Who says I'm atheist?
I just don't believe your Jew fairy tale
Levi Reyes
It's also true. If it's not true, then even truth falls to the irrelevant category.
Hudson Wilson
Nobody was talking about you, hipster.
Nolan Sanders
Well personally I do believe that those of lesser race (black and brown mostly) must be exterminated to benifit the planet as a whole
and jews as jews have been nothing but a subversive backstabbing risk
Camden Johnson
>It must be true because otherwise everything is meaningless
>it's the only sane axiomatic assumption we can base anything off of Sure, go ahead and have another. Does it still have everything function logically? I say no, because it undermines beauty and all virtues, intuition and purpose. It kills the point to even state its outcome out loud.
Andrew Brooks
Those tits are magic and I believe in them.
Jonathan Mitchell
Are you able to make a proveable argument, or do you want to continue with "muh feels"?
Carter Bennett
Christian here. You argument is weak. It requires too many givens, for starters. #4 is the subject of hundreds, if not thousands, of years of thought and debate.
You shouldn't try to btfo atheists until you've at least finished your intro to philosophy class. Even then, you might consider taking a lot more philosophy, theology, and logic before trying.
Caleb Bell
Who created God? Where does he come from?
Jonathan Robinson
You can't use science to explain the metaphysical. An uncaused entity is a perfectly valid description of a God.
Xavier Russell
You did read the post before, right? I am not arguing about the uncaused part, but about the "the world was caused" bit, making any further discussion based on that assumption void.
Lincoln Howard
Tell me it isn't so finn bro.
Blake Powell
Most of the things we call "morals" are nescessary for living together in a civilization
Our ancestors realized this without a cosmic Jew to tell them not to kill etc
Joshua Scott
...
Adrian Green
...
David Collins
Actually belongs on /x/ unless it is very specifically politically related (someone's politics are this way because religion for example)
Tyler Baker
What do you mean by personhood?
Carter Turner
I don't have a life but I could rape someone and give them one.
Cooper White
...
Colton Thompson
Never trust a person who can clear their conscience of any immoral act by rationalizing away morality as merely relative.
Satisfying your internal conscience is one thing, but trust, satisfying the conscience of another, is entirely different. You must appeal to a moral standard beyond the both of you. Atheists have no such standard save might makes right. Still no basis for establishing trust.
Parker Phillips
I said that it is an axiomatic premise. You go with yours, I go with mine. Besides autism, I don't understand your perspective at all. Unless I take into account a revolt that you are undergoing. Does your world view answer enough about the world? Ah, but enough in your axioms would be.. Whatever you choose. Even if you choose to believe that there is no choice.
>God looked at r/Atheism and took a glance at Cred Forums, He saw the desperation and degeneracy, and merged the two together to punish both. The impure virgin robots summoned a foul frog spirit, and God let it take over. He laughed. We laughed. The ride was over.
Angel Ward
You are anonymous. Nobody is pestering you here. You are in the cave of Dagobah, only what you bring with you, here is.
Joseph Cruz
I don't like lying. Be it me or someone else. >personal freedom is the most important thing ever >nothing is important, there are no actual choices Living in a nation of pharisees does not make it easy.
Bentley Russell
>Following arbitrary rules because someone claimed that they came from a higher, unproveable being is a good basis for defining morality Lol no.
So you admit that your entire argument here is based on premises that break down when challenged?
Ryan Harris
this is why I will never have respect for theist beliefs
Nathaniel Lee
If you want to argue against trusting the religious because their "rules" are arbitrary, then you're only arguing trust for no one because everyone's rules are arbitrary.
If you're not to be trusted, then on what basis should I consider your argument?
Easton Flores
You need perspective man. You live in a pretty good place all things accounted for, there are so many places were life is a hell hole compared to Finland.
Personal freedom if you ask me is a meme. A dangerous one.Try to get involved in more group activities and if things are that bad (psychologically speaking) then you need to see a therapist. If you can afford to be on 4chins you can afford to contact a therapist.
If you give up, then you are homo nigger, don't be a homo nigger finn breh.
Brody Jackson
Given: 1 something cannot give (in other words cause) something it doesn't have 2 the physical things that form to make a BLT do not have sandwichhood in them 3. Deduction from 1 and 2, the physical things that form to make a BLT cannot give sandwichhood.
Given: 4. Sandwichhood does exist. 5. From 3 and 4, therefore something nonphysical must cause the sandwichhood.
From 1 and 5, therefore this nonphysical cause must have sandwichhood in order to cause it
Try to refute this(protip you can't)
Ethan Torres
That is why you should heed the call of your ancestral roots instead of worshiping the kike on the stick.
Gavin Lee
If you weren`t a retard talking out of his ass you would know that there exist universal moral systems that don`t hang on you believing that the other person is telling you the truth.
Jeremiah Jones
wtf I love derivative Jew God now
Kayden Cruz
>universal moral systems Such as?
Kevin Campbell
Kants. Read up on the categorical imperative to get some understanding.
Evan Perez
She already did, it sucked, it was all censored
Eli Cooper
the way these threads go: >hurrdurr atheists btfo by logic >(atheists destroy what religiotard thinks of as "logic") >hurrdurr logic does not apply to god
did not read the thread. are we there yet?
Elijah Price
that's the kind of thinking that got us the human rights mess we live in >"but user, what's wrong if I want to dress as a girl? I am not hurting anyone"
Lincoln Reyes
*tips*
Caleb Perez
shut up and post more of that man made succubus.
i swear she is genetically and biochemical crafted to be a muh dick machine.
Daniel Murphy
You could simplify this even more by just discussing consciousness, biology, and emergent properties.
Isaiah Phillips
>Not worshiping and following the lifestyle of the greatest known deity
Christfags and Dawkinfags need to fucking step up
Adrian Campbell
>let me start my argument off with an assumption
Yes. It's called a premise. It's something that both parties should agree on, so that the argument can proceed.
Here are some others - >2+2=4 >All squares are rectangles >Cred Forums is a website
If you disagree with them, challenge them. That's part of the refuation. But no one goes all the way back to prime axioms just to establish their starting point.
Adrian Murphy
So, you're saying universal moral systems exist
and they don't hang on my believing that the other person is telling the truth
and to demonstrate this
you point me toward books -written by other people- who you claim have the truth.
that sounds so remarkably familiar... I wonder where I've encountered something like that before?
Carter Hernandez
That`s comparing apples and oranges. Not that I expected anything less from someone so retarded.
Your moral system is based on the assumption that it was handed down by higher entity of some sort (God in short). It breaks down the moment you take that away. My moral system remains consistent no matter who is responsible for it. That I pointed you to the person responsible for it is just a matter of convenience, not a necessary requirement, since it`s not an appeal to (higher) authority.
Isaac Wilson
Theist beliefs and dogma also refute themselves with simple logic.
Psalm 147:5 "Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit."
Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him"
Theist claim that their god is omniscient but also claim that they are given free will.
This is not possible as an omniscient god would know all states past present and future and thus all information would exist in a closed system where all probable outcomes are predetermined through gods will alone.
It also refutes any possibility of an oppositional force such as satan as all creation is for god and of gods will. god and satan are one and the same.
Zachary Morales
What?
I already worship kek
Jose Taylor
Nice try Cletis.
Ignore the assumptions your "assumptions" require to make the argument.
Caleb Murphy
>This is why you Christian fucks never win debates
Belief in superstions, occult, religion, pseudoscience and deities is irrational and illogical
Our human brains are designed to be rational. It's why our parietal lobes and cerebellum are so large. However, on occasion, we may suspend disbelief and engage in irrational thinking. This is useful in making hypothesis, predicting outcomes, recognizing patterns and working with math ourside the "counting numbers".
Belief is not inherently harmful as long as we don't suspend our disbelief for too long. Religious believers live in a constant state of compromised rationality and cognitive dissoance. They delberately damage their ability to reason by poisoning their critical thinking skills. over time, they become incapable of discerning fact from fiction.
This becomes painfully obvious when believers attempt to rationalize their nonsense. Their fallacy-laden statements and sloppy explanations may sound right in their impaired minds (solipsism) but they make it abundantly clear they can't grasp any scientific or philosophical concept properly.
Ayden Murphy
>Islam causes terror and violence, All the Abrahamic religions share a shameful history of atrocity and violence
Grayson Jackson
>Your moral system is based on the assumption that it was handed down by higher entity of some sort (God in short). It breaks down the moment you take that away. Excepting of course in the instance that that higher entity is.
But putting that aside for a moment I haven't said anything about my moral system. I could just as well be an atheist following atheism to its logical conclusions. There is no god, and no morals either. You're still in the position to demonstrate objective morality exists. Please, tell me more about my moral system!
>My moral system remains consistent no matter who is responsible for it. That I pointed you to the person responsible for it is just a matter of convenience, not a necessary requirement, since it`s not an appeal to (higher) authority. Kant couldn't live according to his moral philosophy. The system might be consistent, but it certainly wasn't consistent with reality.
Andrew Jenkins
>Atheists have no such standard save might makes right.
(1) Men created morals (2) Then men invented gods to enforce their morals (3) The most irrational and ignorant can always be counted upon to fall for it.
Works. Every. Time.
Adrian Robinson
Your quotes doesn't have anything to do with your question:"If God is omniscient/omnipotent, what is the sense of the free will?" The answer it's simple:1)God is righteous,therefore will let you to do whatever you want ..2)Free will is the expression of God in humans.
Charles Phillips
Yeah, but belief that laws of physiques, time and life can emerge from nothing makes you stupid.
Nathaniel Morris
Free will cannot exist in a universe where god is omniscient.
If all information is known and predetermined by god it means that choice is an illusion.
Luis Ortiz
what is 'moral'?
Jose Jones
I understand your point.you are wrong.
Henry Barnes
>this doesn't prove that God exists
Elijah Ross
what the fuck is going on with that dress
Angel Fisher
It's simple logic and i'm not the one making the claim of having an omniscient god. The quotes show directly that Christian dogma claims both omniscience of god but also that all creation is of him and for him.
If all information is predetermined than you do not have choice. No matter how many options you are given you will always make the same choice as the outcome was predetermined.
That means that god has willed into existence creation that will violate his covenants because he is the originator of all will and information.
At the end of the day classic Abrahamic faith boils down to worshiping what amounts to a sadistic quantum computer that has determined all probable outcomes.
Zachary Moore
>Yeah, but belief that laws of physiques, One certainly needs good physiques to hold up the world
>time and life can emerge from nothing makes you stupid. From nothing? If you're referring to the "big bang", no scientist suggests there was nothing. That's just a strawman the real idiots have glommed onto because they lack the critical thinking skills to recognize what a terrible fallacy it is.
First, the beginning as far as we're able to tell was all the atoms packed in a hot, dense space. Science starts from the premise that the atoms were already there.
Second, just because the religious extremists and microcephalics are incapable of proving their gods, atheists are in no way obligated to present any competing claims or make any alternative suggestions how the universe came to be what it is.
This is why people laugh at you
Gabriel Howard
>In order to define what makes up an objectivly moral system its maker must not be an hypocrite Are you even able to pretend that you are making an argument?
Austin Edwards
>what is 'moral'? Morals are whatever men decide them to be. Morals "refer to certain codes of conduct put forward by a society or a group" according to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
Nolan Powell
Who is this
James Robinson
>Are you even able to pretend that you are making an argument? Sure. But seeing as I am not, that is neither here not there.
At any point you want to demonstrate that >universal moral systems actually are
That would be great.
John Sanchez
The categorical imperative is by definition a formal and necessarily universally binding rule on all rational agents. It`s not my fault if you are too dense to understand that.
Isaac Flores
>Try to refute this(protip you can't) Still trying to make sense of it (Protip: You can't)
Leo Lewis
Yes, I find it most perplexing that Kant was unable to live according to this necessarily binding rule... it seems that such a thing shouldn't be possible... by definition.
But let's get down to brass tacks. What maxims do YOU will should be universal law? Further where the two of us disagree, by what method should we settle our disagreement?
Michael Jones
How does that prove the existence of your god and not the existence of R'hllor?
Nicholas Bell
Aristotle or one of his fanboys, apparently.
Luke Morales
I do not see the point of discussing anything at all with someone who can`t even understand that a universal binding moral rule is only binding if one, suprise, wants to act moral at all times.
Carson Wood
>Suicides are off the scale the more secularized countries Homicides are off the scale in religious countries.
Mason Long
Which brings us full circle You don't see the point in continuing because you can't defend the bankruptcy in a moral system that you can disregard at your convenience... all the while condemning a moral system that can be disregarded at one's convenience.
Follow atheism to its logical conclusion - there are no morals.
Blake Ward
>God allows some leaders to reign as a punishment. Do your gods kill children to punish parents?
Kevin Young
>define personhood As soon as the ink dries on its incorporation papers, that corporation becomes a person with superior constitutional rights to any natural born citizen. That's true personhood in America.
Elijah Adams
1 How do you cause something if you already have it? 2 There is no personhood without the building blocks. 3 that's saying the same thing as 2 4 Evolution exists. 5 Every effect could have a cause that isn't god and fallible people defined causality.
Lincoln Scott
>Free will means there are no morals Bringing you to your logical loophole: Even theism still assumes free will. Just because morals are ignored dosn`t mean that there aren`t morals, anyway. I think your problem is that you still believe that some abstract concept of punishment in the afterlife makes people act moral and therefore consider the failed moral system based on this punishment superior, despite all evidence pointing to the contray.
But who am I for expecting anything less from a moron.
To go back to your previous post: Discussing what maxims I will should be universal law is moot, as I neither have the time nor space to count all covering all possibilities, nor does this serve any point at all in discussing the moral system itself. To your second point: For what reason do we need to settle any dispute over what is moral? Each man has only to answer to himself, and every man has supreme moral agency over himself.
Leo Sullivan
All you have to do is debate the existence of an objective reality, vs a subjective reality. No assumptions, just what are the logical conclusions of both? Objective reality wins out every time.
And really, everyone at this point should be intelligent enough to stop pitting evolution and creative design as mutually exclusive. I don't understand how people still think like that in the 21st century.
Joseph Thompson
/thread
Jackson Bell
>implyung humans don't give chairs chairhood >humans have chairhood in their minds/imaginations to give and with hands/tools they can give it form
Caleb Thomas
He's not really a false prophet, more like a false pope. >An anti-pope if you will.
Henry Hill
You don't have a clue about maths, do you ? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999... Here is for you. I don't mind people who don't know things but it's annoying when people don't know things but pretend they do.
Asher Hall
Don't do that. We need you down here. The western culture is in danger, you can't escape like that.
Ethan King
>being accountable before the society is somehow a sign of degeneracy Wew lad
Charles Nguyen
There is no god faggot.
Leo Long
if you want to tug your dick to katy then there is a thread here > please contribute
Parker Hill
fuck this, idk how to link to another board correctly just go to the catalog on /hr/ and youll see it