Why don't you accept transgender people?

How does this apply to lesbians with buzz cuts who can't figure out what/who they are?

All I saw were a bunch of bad excuses for weird behavior. Fuck off.

Lefty here. Any transgender I've met was way happier as the gender they felt they were, so I believe it. Also unlike movie/TV stereotypes, everyone I've known who's trans-anything seems to look way hotter after they've transitioned. I believe there's something to it. Being comfortable with who you are is important.

Looks like it is a handicap/deformity to me. Not to be celebrated. Society should not normalize deformities.

By that logic I guess I should stop taking my epilepsy meds and flop around.

>The better path by far is first accepting things as they are and then working from there

Terrible suggestion and as thousands of trannys across the world have made it clear. This is not possible.

Consider this analogy: a piece of computer hardwire requires firmware/drivers to operate correctly. If you try to run a graphics card without drivers it bugs out and works inefficiently. Our bodies are like this. The brain is the software and the body is the hardware. You can't just "ignore" GID because it's an actual miscommunication between your body and brain.

You can either change the brain or the body. We don't have the technology to change the brain thus we change the body.

Transitioning is an incredibly successful form of treatment. The "unhappiness" of post-ops is a meme that you have fallen for. All you do when you say that is show your utter lack of understanding of this topic and critical thinking. Anyone who spends more than 30 minutes looking over results and efficacy of transition as a treatment can clearly conclude its success. It's more successful than numerous treatments we allow patients to choose (chemotherapy for example).

> exists doesn't automatically require acceptance of surgery

Also shows how little you understand. Not all trannys get surgery and only 25-30% of MtF receive bottom surgery.

The initial starting point for many of your claims is just demonstrably false.

>For example, if someone were to display a remarkably similar brain to an ape would you support surgery to look like an ape and their attempts to live as an ape?

Moot. The brain doesn't work this way. And the brain DOES work in a masculine or feminine direction as seen by empirical research in numerous fields.

I didn't say euthanize. I said not celebrate or normalize.

This. It should be treated as an illness. When you load yourself with replacement hormone in effort to cope and you're still a mental train wreck afterwards, in reference to my suicide rate comment is changing your gender really a way to cope with this? We have structured a society around accepting this more so on the premise of it being abstract and rebellious. There is also a massive victimhood factor. Treat gender dysphoria as an illness and use methods to bring people to recovery.

Letting people exist without discrimination is not "normalizing deformities".

see: >Suicide rates
Nice meme. The numbers you are citing are actually suicide ATTEMPT rates. The success of tranny suicide is near 3-7% indicating the pulse for suicide is more for attention.

Further, when normalizing social risk factors (workplace discrimination, domestic abuse, sexual abuse, access to healthcare, support network) with the cis population, tranny suicide rates plummet to average levels.

Virtually all evidence shows transition as an incredibly successful medical treatment.

>medicine
>chopping your dick only to still have high suicide rate
Pick one. Trans operations are not medicine.

>We don't have the technology to change the brain thus we change the body.
Do you think hormones aren't controlled by the brain or something?

It is treated as an illness. What do you think transition is? It's the highest efficacy treatment ever discovered for this bizarre neurological disorder.

>Heylans et al., 2014: "A difference in SCL-90 [a test of distress, anxiety, and hostility] overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001)...Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated.

>Colizzi et al., 2013: "At enrollment, transsexuals reported elevated CAR ['cortisol awakening response', a physiological measure of stress]; their values were out of normal. They expressed higher perceived stress and more attachment insecurity, with respect to normative sample data. When treated with hormone therapy [at followup, 1 year after beginning HRT], transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples."

>de Vries, et al., 2014 studied 55 trans teens from the onset of treatment in their early teenage years through a follow-up an average of 7 years later. They found no negative outcomes, no regrets, and in fact their group was slightly mentally healthier than controls.

>Lawrence, 2003 surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret."

more but text limit

That's not what you should focus on. The suicide rate is unchanging across perceived ability to "pass" as the other sex. So even someone who people don't even know is a man has the same rate of suicide as the one who everyone knows is just a dude with a boob job.

Rates don't change much because clearly these people are suffering from a mental disorder, and cosmetics don't fix that.

Then explain to me the bathroom fiasco and trans saturation in the media lately. Seems you are describing one thing while I am describing what is actually happening.

What are you trying to say with this? Are you implying you understand how to rewire and reform neurological structures and patterns in the brain?

Of course the brain controls hormones and the hormone control center (hypothalamus) is one of the most idiosyncratically sexually dimorphic structures in the tranny brain.

Doesn't it make sense that having the wrong brain sex with a body releases the wrong sex hormone would cause function issues?

It sounds like you were questioning what I said but what you said really just supports me..

Good meme
>implying all trannys get surgery, 25% of mtf "chop it off"
>suicide rate

It's suicide attempt rate. Do you even try to read the numbers you are referencing? Absolute lack of understanding.

What do you mean by "workplace discrimination, domestic abuse, sexual abuse, access to healthcare, support network"

Especially

>Healthcare
>Sexual abuse
>Domestic abuse

Because humans telling themselves that they can do a better job than mother nature never ends well.

It's also the really creepy part about how we're all forced to prefer a comfortable lie over a harsh truth. Everything about this tranny shit has this creepy vibe where you're obligated to play along with some creepy fucker's delusional fantasy. It's like Michael Jackson on steroids. Trannies have created inside their own head this completely delusional fantasy and basically say that if you don't play along with it and if you dare to question the idea that people can get and should be anything they want, you're literally Hitler

Not sure. Head over to most LGBT communities and you'll see a lot of people cringing at the bathroom garbage. Nobody wants to constantly push the public into this shit.

Trannys have been using their preferred bathroom for literally 30 years. It's not a fucking new thing and it's not a big deal.

Bruce Jenner and the media circus is one of the worst things to happen to trannys. The media fucking ruins everything. Why does it surprise you?

My best friend is a tranny and she uses the mens bathroom if she feels like she doesn't look passing or anything.

Only autistic retards would try to use a girls bathroom as a literal man in dress. And it's funny because all the cases of man in dresses have been people trying to stir controversy who are anti-trans and want to paint that as the narrative.

They are insane or just errors.

Insanity or genetic errors is not something to be proud of.

You can change the brain without any technology whatsoever. Humans have been doing this for as long as we've existed. Not everything requires a technological solution.

Furthermore, forcing someone to be something they're not isn't accepting things as they are. You assumed that I was merely suggesting they keep trying to force themselves to be a person they're not, thus missed my point entirely.

What if the role of a person with this condition were as a bridge of understanding between the sexes. They can work out on their own how to live the best way for them without society placing demands upon them and they can have the respect of said society because they perform a valuable service to us all. Supposing this could be made the accepted frame for gender dysphoric people, don't you think it could lead to even better outcomes and lives than your view of transitioning for all.

Transgender people suffer some of the highest rates of sexual abuse. Transgender people suffer some of the highest rates of domestic abuse. Transgender people all around the world are prevented from accessing treatment for their condition.

When these factors are normalized against the cis-population, the suicide rate drops to near-normal levels.

Is it really that surprising? It's almost like when you are constantly told you can't exist by society and are tormented for your illness you have a higher risk of suicide...

Suicide attempt vs suicide changes nothing. They have a social disorder. Just like an anorexic person overdosing on sleeping pills - whether or not someone saves them is irrelevant.

>Doesn't it make sense that having the wrong brain sex with a body releases the wrong sex hormone would cause function issues?
Yes it makes sense. Which is why it needs to be treated with hormones if they want to. And it should be affordable to prevent mental health problems.

>Furthermore, forcing someone to be something they're not isn't accepting things as they are

Forcing a tranny to live as they were born is forcing them to live as they are not according to their brain which is the center and epigenesis of sentient consciousness.

>What if the role of a person with this condition

Yeah I mean, that sounds great on paper. But we can't organize society to do shit so why leave these sick people in limbo while we try to find a more successful treatment despite having one already that has enormous success (higher than most medical treatments).

I understood what you said earlier, I wanted to clarify.

What do you mean when you said "Prevented" as in it's illegal to offer the treatment or it's not covered by the tax payer?

If there is a biological basis for being a faggot, does that mean we can cure it?

Wow, really makes you think. Who knew mental illness and ridiculous amounts of hormones could have an affect on the body?
Wtf I love trannies now

>why leave these sick people in limbo
Because big pharma

You make too much sense... :P

It really does change a lot. That statement illustrates you have an utter lack of understanding of suicide and suicide research. Attempt vs completion rate is a massively important distinction.

No. Trannys have a biological and neurological disorder. It has nothing to with socialization. This is clear when you look at the cases of David Reimer and Walt Heyer. Forced socialization against your hardwired biological gender identity never works. You can not teach or socialize someone into a gender their brain does not identify with.

Continue to disregard all the evidence just because its convenient for your social political agenda. Being transgender is a medical and biological issue, not a political and social issue. You faggots and the SJWs just force it to be.

...

>normal hetero brain scans used as controls are mentally ill

I don't think you understand what PET scan is. LEL. That shows brain activity across its regions, not the molecular and anatomical structure of the brain. Trannys show significant differences in the: hypothalamus structure/behavior, limbic system, white matter microstructure, and colossal shape.

Being a tranny is a mental illness not a gender.

For hundreds of thousands of years people like this were "forced" to live as they were due to the technology to change their bodies not existing. Do you think that them finding acceptance of their condition within themselves and living their lives however they did was wrong?

>Forcing a tranny to live as they were born is forcing them to live as they are not
You expose part of the problem right here. How can they accept who they are if even their supposed allies tell them that who they're born as is not who they are? You default to not accepting them as themselves.

Well many transgender people live in countries where they are incapable of getting healthcare for this due to restrictive laws.

Many fail to get heath care access because of the difficulty of starting the HRT process.

Many in America fail to find quality access because their state doesn't have a clinic that does this kind of work.

I live in Midwest USA and my best friend has to drive 2.5 hours to get to the nearest transcare clinic. Many low income people can't afford to travel like that.

Access to transcare is incredibly bad.

No I'm not talking about tax payers. I do think HRT should be included on government insurance (which it is) but absolutely not surgeries as their efficacy rate is much lower at relieving dysphoria than HRT.

Plus HRT costs literally pennies.

>being so retarded the point of the post goes over your head entirely
OP is trying to imply that being a tranny is ok or normal, maybe even natural, based on brain similarities between trannies and women, while completely ignoring the fact that hormones and delusions have a very significant effect on the brain.
If someone says theyre something that is physically and logically impossible, we usually call them delusional.

Many...

How big is the percentage from population?

>hormones and altered mental states have no effect on the brain
You are completely and utterly retarded

> mfw not even knowing I might be a tranny

No but you are implying they ever found acceptance within themselves. How do you know these people found acceptance within themselves?

Pic related, ignore the edgy faggot post but the two quotes are quite good. With language like that it's clear these people never accepted themselves as you say.

Also I feel you are confused and starting your argument from a weird position. All trannys are aware of their sex. That's why they are transgender. You seem to think these people genuinely believe they are the opposite sex. No. It's very clear to them they aren't as every day of their life they suffer from that fact.

My best friend is transgender and she is very open about her past and origins. She has accepted her past as part of her existence.

You assume a lot.

Okay. I'm content with what you've said.

>I live in Midwest USA and my best friend has to drive 2.5 hours to get to the nearest transcare clinic. Many low income people can't afford to travel like that.

Do you think it's fair to ask for a public cost fix for an issue that only effects a minority of the population?

I don't think it's the place of the state to be creating medical facilities to facilite for a very small amount of people who have a very specific issue.

If there are laws preventing private facilities or public facilities that are closer by giving your friend what she needs then that's okay by me to fix. Otherwise, it's not.

Do you have examples of these countries that have laws against treatments at a certain age? Also are these children old enough to be making decisions like this, is there information that would STRONGLY support the idea that you can diagnoze transgenderism accurately?

I don't disagree that gender dysphoria is a biological flaw. I do think that developing a whole social construct around it is absolutely ridiculous though. Even if sex transition is a successful treatment, there is a MAJOR problem with how heavily it has been spun by society. It has turned into the next cool thing to do. We can all agree that we see college kids attempting to do these things to themselves to fit in. Can we both agree that the degree to which we see sex transition exploited as an attention garnering tool is not in correlation with the actual rate of gender dysphoria diagnosis? Because new ideologies and acceptance of everyone and everything is taking hold in society, it is becoming acceptable to treat this as a "Oh boy my hormones have come in the mail I can't wait to transition my 6 year old son!!" rather than an "I'm really struggling here. I should be modest about this and treat this as a problem. This seems like the most successful treatment method out there."

How do we know that everyone out there is truly changing their gender because they have these few biological flaws rather than just because they want to experiment with their bodies?

>(((((((((Research)))))))))

These people are objectively bad for people who are actually struggling with their condition and I'd say all reasonable transgender people hate this shit as well.

Parents who are hopeful that their child will have to go through treatments, medical procedure an more is disgusting.

.3% of the population is the conservative estimate.

That puts about 21,000,000 trannys on the planet now.

>Many
Yes. I can't give you absolute numbers in peoples access to healthcare but there is a really massive survey (the one where 40% suicide meme comes from) and a significant portion of the participants reported difficulty in finding proper medical treatment.

The cohort who had access to healthcare had greatly diminished suicide rates and increased mental health.

The American college of Pediatrics recommended to STOP endorsing this bullshit so, i'll stick with that

>Do you think it's fair to ask for a public cost fix for an issue that only effects a minority of the population?

Lol! That's what we do with handicap accessibility. It's government mandated every public building has access. It's not that I want tax payer funded clinics. It's just that some clinics aren't even allowed to open up in some states.

Many states in the USA don't allow for informed consent. Thus it involves an outdated gate keeping process and clinics can't open via the freemarket because they can't get patients to fund themselves.

I never claimed I wanted the government to open clinics for trannys. I want the government out of the way so clinics can open themselves.

>Do you have examples of these countries that have laws against treatments at a certain age?

LOL! Yes. Every country has laws. The memes you see about childhood transitioners are just that, memes. The age to start HRT in the US is 16. Before that the best they can do is puberty blockers which are completely safe and used it other medical procedures.

In most parts of EU I think the age for hormones is 18. Puberty blockers at 16. Some extreme cases of childhood dysphoria do get waivers to start sooner but the vast majority don't.

The whole meme about childhood abuse with kids 8 starting hormones is literally fake. It doesn't exist medically.

I'm not okay with the tax payer being forced to pay for something that helps only 0.3% or less of the population.

There is barely 1 million Transgender people in the united states and I doubt that many of these people don't have access to
transcare.

:^)

>anything I disagree with isn't valid despite it being peer reviewed, multi sourced, independent interdisciplinary research from all over the world.

Ok faggot. Keep swallowing that blue pill.

You're right, it is biological. I didnt mean to imply that it is caused by social means. I was more so saying that it can lead to bad social consequences. Nothing you've said proves to me that trannies should be considered normal. Finding a cure to it is as good as finding a cure to autism - very hard.

Do any of those studies correlate with Ops pic, but given for one person throughout their life? I can't acknowledge this to be demonstrative for transexuality given the cited areas of the brain are also subject to neuroplasticity and that long term "force of will" causes physical changes documented in the given study.

Basically, these changes are cool, but unless you can show that the 3, 13 and 30 year old version of a patient with a sexuality disorder doesn't change, then the biological evidence is circumstantial.

Tldr
>trannies come to Cred Forums
>"hurrr! You guise r bigots!"
>trannies told to fuck off
>trannies come back
>hurrr! Y u guise not like us!"
You're worse than the fucking vegans.
There are only 2 gensers, biology does not cater to your snowflake delusions no matter how loud you scream and whine.
You're all mentally ill and you deserve to beaten until you're straight

You don't understand the numbers then. HRT is an incredibly inexpensive treatment that literally costs pennies per pill.

A single suicide attempt that ends in the emergency room costs tax payers 1000x more than HRT does.

It's economically beneficial to pay for HRT as tax payers because it essentially costs nothing and prevents ER inflation spending. Tax payers save costs across the board paying for HRT.

>There is barely 1 million Transgender people in the united states and I doubt that many of these people don't have access to
transcare.

Heh. You might want to go ask some trannys about that one...

Are you completely brain dead?

I never called anyone a bigot. I've posted empirical research and considered each persons argument.

You are the one being a helpless child here. If you can't post a real argument maybe you should be the one beaten until you gain critical thinking.

So if I can show you that "racist peoples' brains iz different" then you have to accept all of their allegations without using "racist" as a derogatory term from now on, OP, you piece of shit?

Is that how it works? If there is some scientific predisposition to something, we should take the brakes off the train and let it destroy everything in its path for the sake of some bullshit activism that you only came into in the last few years?

Fuck you.

You seem to be new here. On Cred Forums, in order to prove that we're not shills, we put "it really makes you think" at the end of opening posts. That's our secret code. Please utilize it in the future.

>biology does not cater to your snowflake delusions no matter how loud you scream and whine.
Unfortunately society does though

I just come here to see what conspiracies are getting big
Easy to cash in on Facebook meme pages with crazy Cred Forums conspiracy theories, posted in a level 4/5 irony manner.
Tranny degenerate too desu

>because we help X means we have to help X as well

I did not say I support forcing the tax payer to pay for hanicapped people. I'm saying it's unfair to make the majority pay for the minority.

I'm all for pushing states to allow medical clinics to open up. It should NOT be illegal for them to offer care.

I'm not asking to make fun of you or be argumentative I'm trying to understand your perspective.

Okay, I don't mind 16 year olds starting. That seems reasonable.

I am not talking about HRT. I'm talking about publically funded buildings. I agree with you on HRT provided that there is a net positive revenue in suicide ER vs. HRT total costs.

> Anonymous (ID: dObf7QIF) 10/04/16(Tue)03:41:27 No.91350550 ▶

(You)
You don't understand the numbers then. HRT is an incredibly inexpensive treatment that literally costs pennies per pill.

A single suicide attempt that ends in the emergency room costs tax payers 1000x more than HRT does.

It's economically beneficial to pay for HRT as tax payers because it essentially costs nothing and prevents ER inflation spending. Tax payers save costs across the board paying for HRT.

>There is barely 1 million Transgender people in the united states and I doubt that many of these people don't have access to
transcare.

>Heh. You might want to go ask some trannys about that one...

Give me an estimate population. I don't want anecdotes.

I don't care.
Y chromosome = man, no Y chromosome = woman.
I don't care about you trying to justify your mental illness.

Where have I assumed that these people are unaware of anything to do with themselves?

I think you expect me to be arguing for something diametrically opposed to what you say and so you see me as confused and coming from a "weird position". I doubt you've picked up that I'm also disagreeing with most of the other people in this thread arguing with you. I'm reaching for other conclusions besides "disgusting abberation" or "pitiable person who needs medical help". There is so much more that could be explored but your fixed view point won't allow it.

Other things call for my attention but do think on this more open mindedly. Read the bit I previously wrote about social roles again and make an effort to see it differently than either side here. Your materialism shows. There is more to life than that.

Holy fuck I autismed this post

>biology does not cater to your snowflake delusions no matter how loud you scream and whine.

Ah yes, because humans should just accept whatever biological conditions they are given but don't like right?

Let's just leave all blind people blind. All deaf people deaf. All kids with leukemia let them die. Break all glasses so the weaklings can't see. Let's stop taking anti-biotics so biology can do its thing! The entire human condition is changing things we don't like to better ourselves. This is what trannys do.

You are a fucking idiot.

>MUH CHROMOSOMES
Spoken like a true nigger. Get back to work, Tyrone, those burgers won't flip themselves. The people with IQs above 70 are talking.

>MUH BIOLOGY
Yea, sorry m8, facts don't care about your feelings.
The only bright side of a Hillary win is that Mudslimes will gladly murder all our faggots and trannies.

>Transitioning is an incredibly successful form of treatment. The "unhappiness" of post-ops is a meme that you have fallen for. A
you know except for the really high post op suicide rate :^)

>critical thinking
>tranny
Pick one.
Again, biology destroys your special snowflake delusions.
It doesn't matter what you say.
You're sick just like all the others.
Coming here and acting all high and mighty like the rest of your deranged freakshow doesn't vain you any grievance.
It just makes us hate you even more.
>I never called anyone a bigot
Just because you didn't doesn't mean the rest of them haven't.
Plus coming in and yelling"ur all bluepilled XDD" is not an argument especially when you have no clear proof that you're anything other than fucked up in the head and all your shallow libshit "evidence" won't change that.
Grow the fuck up or go attention whore somewhere else
>>>Tumblr

pure ideology

Your research essentially proves nothing except there is a spectrum of biological difference within the human brain.

Not the human gender.

Congratulations, people have different brains.

Now, go look up the differences between the African American brain and the White brain.

>trannies exist and niggers are inferior
>trannies don't exist and niggers aren't inferior.

Pick one.

> I'm talking about publically funded buildings

I already said I am against these. The free market should handle this.

>Give me an estimate population. I don't want anecdotes.

I'll try but I don't feel confident conjecturing. Everything I have said thus far in this thread is supported by concrete evidence.

I'd guess that for 1 million trannys in the US. At least 40% had difficulty finding treatment. 10-20% can't access treatment and maybe 20% were gate kept and forced to wait a year while testosterone disfigured their body further due to out dated government regulations.

Sounds reasonable.
We do not need propagate mental illness and defects. They just fit in if they want and are humans.
After all - humans are very good at adapting to various conditions.

Same goes to homos.

>cis population
you should tell all of your mentally defective friends to kill themselves and then follow suit

>being this butthurt

Listen, no one really cares about you or your special snowflake problems.

Okay. I agree with you on everything then.

Do you have example states where it's illegal to offer private transcare?

Do you even understand how the body works? Chromosomes don't determine your masculine vs feminine traits you mongrel.

Chromosomes only determine the genital template you have which then creates the active sex hormone. Every nano meter of your genetic code contains nuclear receptors that sense the hormonal environment and produce proteins based on that. Only one single X chromosome is ever active you fucking retard.

The Y chromosome is only active on the SRY gene that forms the testes. That's it. The rest is hormones acting on a single X chromosome.

You are biologically illiterate.

Fact say the reason why Africa is doing so badly is beacuse of the people low IQ.

It's easier to just not and let them live how they want.

>high post op suicide rate

Nice meme, bud. It's suicide attempt. Most fail. And when normalized for risk factors against the average population trannys suicide rates plummet to average levels.

We've already been over this meme. Nice try tho!

>Chromosomes don't determine your masculine vs feminine traits you mongrel.
Right, they determine your genitals and reproductive organs, ergo your gender.
>The Y chromosome is only active on the SRY gene that forms the testes.
In other words it's what makes a human a male.
NO WAI, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THIS IS BASIC BIOLOGY

Ummmm how does this fit with gender being a social construct?

uh. I don't deny the biological reality of racism. You are a fucking nigger for implying I do.

I follow the facts. That includes tranny research and racial research.

Most of these studies are done after HRT, and obviously HRT changes the brain.
The rest can be explained by sexual orientation. Gays and straights have different brains.
Please look into studies before showing them off.

Mental illness. Y chromosome is throughout a man's body, whether you cut off his wiener or not.

You can make arguments for certain physical defects, but they're defects, not the norm.

Terrible, stupid analogy. The brain is hardware. Classic mind-body separation fallacy that retards make.

It's not that it's illegal to offer transcare. It's illegal to offer transcare without a letter from a psychologist which forces a patient to be scrutinized for months to years by a psychologist with their own biases and expectations of trannys.

I think around 14 states in the US don't have informed consent right now.

Because less than 1% of people have conditions as described in the OP picture.

Gender isn't a social construct and only retarded special snowflakes from tumblr claim this. This is why a lot of extreme feminists hate trannys because trannys are walking proof of sexual dimorphism in the brain.

There is cultural gender as a social construct though which is language, clothes, trends, etc. This is entirely different from gender identity though.

Way to not read my OP.

Male cancer patients suffering from androgenic cancers (prostate/testicular), often do androgen deprivation to combat cancer. This is done through an orchiectomy or or antiandrogens. Some of these patients end up taking female sex hormones or SERMs (estrogen sex hormone only acting on some receptors, i.e. no breast growth). These male identifying patients that remove androgens from their system and take a feminizing hormone reveal masculine-typical brain structures. Indicating these patterns are not formed due to active hormones. It's a hardwired formation that doesn't change depending on active sex hormone.

Some of the modern work in this field actually controls for pre-HRT patients and find the same results. In the first study by Zhou (started this all), he examined a transgender brain post-mortem of an 80 year old organ donor. This organ donor reported feeling cross sex dysphoria throughout his life and never transitioned. Their brain matched results found by the other transgender subjects.

Cismales that take feminizing hormones show us this is not based on active sex hormone.

>SRY genes form testes
>chromosomes don't determine masculine or feminine

Are you retarded? Fucking downie with extra 21st chromosome incapable of understanding testes have a direct impact on masculinity.

i have no problem with you and your so said trans gender race, but you have no reason to force it down people it should have been kept a secret. Some of you are insane who yell and cause havoc to get your thing out but most people dont care or dont listen. Try just growing up dont be like most people.

>when normalized for risk factors like being a tranny, there is negligible difference

The Y chromosome literally does nothing except form the testes.

How dumb can you be. All of our tissue is actively synthesized from the X chromosome under the influence of the nuclear receptors telling the dna what hormone you have

same reason I hate gays, they won't shut the fuck up about it or admit it's a brain disorder that could potentially be treated.

also tranny pride will be a thing just like faggot pride.

stop being a degenerate. wearing 90 rainbow dildos at a festival about being "proud" of being mentally ill in public is absolutely disgusting.

especially once it becomes trendy.

Oh the autism.
>changing things we don't like to better ourselves
Sooo. Getting fucked up on hormones your body rejects and mutilating your genitals is "bettering" yourself?
The strawman in this is hilarious as well.
I'm talking about basic biology with chromosomes. Glasses and antibiotics are here to fix issues.
Going full tranny is not fixing anything.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Unless it's you're fucked up outlook on life.
>you are a fucking idiot
Coming from a tranny that's not saying much

Being a tranny isn't a risk factor though. Trannys proportionally experience the highest rates of physical assault and sexual abuse while also experiencing workplace discrimination, lack of healthcare access, and go their entire life with people questioning their identity as a human being.

Nice try though :^)

Alright, well that is shit.

Why even bother coming here when you know you will get harrassed and people won't even read your post?

>The Y chromosome literally does nothing except form an important reproductive organ that produces male hormones and is innate in males
???

probably a tranny, most definitely a leaf.

I make a distinction of hating all trannies unless they can get me hard.

We should do everything in our power to ensure their success rate goes up.

>is "bettering" yourself?

Yes. It's bettering yourself for those few people in the population that have a neural form of intersexuality.

>If it ain't broke don't fix it.
But the tranny brain is broken. And it's way easier to change the body than the brain.

>Mutiliating genitals
Nice meme bro. Use the word mutilate for hyperbolic effect while ignoring the fact only a minority of transpeople get bottom surgery. :^)

Stop trying to have sex with normal, non-freak males and maybe you wouldn't have to fear any repercussions.

>gender identity is formed ~1-3 months after.

WTF I hate babies now.

He is a downie his extra 21st chromosome does literally nothing except give him down's syndrome

Then explain to me why male and female bodies differ. Brain, appearance and so on.

Testes-shmestes.

>being a tranny isn't a risk factor
>proceeds to describe increased risk due to being a tranny
ur super smart and sure are teaching us a thing or two and you're definitely not a dude, you're a beautiful woman

100% of them belong in an asylum. The parents and jews that push this shit belong in prison.

Surgeries and hormone therapy can't/won't change biological sex.

you do know that "cis" is an actual scientific term used before the tumblr cunts; a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin meaning “on the near side of; on this side of” ( cisalpine); on this model, used in the formation of compound words ( cisatlantic).

and trans being the opposite, you fucking leaf

Blame everything on others if you are born retarded.
Where I heard this before.

Oh, yes. BLM.

Because I browse Cred Forums because it's correct about a lot of things.

This is something Cred Forums is incredibly wrong about and refuses to read the evidence that is out there.

I've changed a lot of peoples mind on this board and I don't mind taking abuse if it means educating people.

why are you sliding?

Why are trans people so sex-obsessed ?
And why doesn't Youtube allow pic related ?

Even BLM retards aren't as idiotic as trannies.

I just told you why. Active sex hormone.

If you took an XY baby and knocked out its SRY gene. It would develop as a female and could even get pregnant despite having a Y chromosome. The Y chromosome is only active to form the testes which then create the hormonal environment in the body that determines if the tissue forms in male or female patterns.

cells have nuclear receptors that process the DNA in a male or female way, depending on if the estrogren or androgen receptors are activated.

>sliding
>33 posts by my ID.

Good meme.

BLM is a cock sucking terrorist organization and to compare their struggles to the trans community is laughable at best.

>what are X-escape genes
>implying gene expression does not continue to some extent
>implying anything is clear-cut in biology
In fact it can have a very substantial effect on neural development and structure; ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23926114

There are many studies that have studied subjects before hormone treatment. OP linked a bunch of them.
e.g.
>The present study indicates that there are a priori differences between men and transsexual patients caused by different neurobiological processes or task-solving strategies and that these differences remain stable over the course of hormonal treatment.
>Twelve male and 12 female heterosexual volunteers and 12 MTF transsexuals before any treatment viewed erotic film excerpts during fMRI
>We revealed a cerebral activation pattern in MTF transsexuals compared with male controls similar to female controls compared with male controls during viewing of erotic stimuli, indicating a tendency of female-like cerebral processing in transsexualism.
etc.

>struggles of the trans community
Entirley self inflicted.
Anyway, Maddie, go back to Canadia; nobody likes you.

>and to compare their struggles to the trans community is laughable at best.
They both complain about "discrimination" in the most retarded ways and deny reality.
The comparison is definitely grounded.

Truth is - we still do not know everything about human body, biology and so on.

1.
Intersexuality is a tumblr buzzword you made up.
You're not fixing you're body you're destroying it along with your mind.
2.
Therapy and medication could fix your mind right up rather than people cheering you on to your eventual suicide.
3.
Yes it is mutilation. Literally your body telling you "something's fucked up and needs to heal but for some reason it isn't"
Then come the infections, the hormonals imbalances, and the eventual realization that you can never be something you weren't born as, and the best part, when you're swinging from a rope and we get to put you on a statistic further proving our point.
>only a minority of trans people get bottom surgery
Then the people who don't, aren't trans, they're fucking idiots and attention whoring faggots. If you're so unhappy being born the way you were then do us a favor and just die.our tax dollars should go towards curing cancer and helping society process. Not cater to some pshycho who wants to play dress-up

Sage

When are you killing yourself?

>burning down buildings and being a general nuisance is worse than wanting to be part of a different gender identity

If OP is accurate in saying that within the 1-3 month period of life your gender identity is decided how the fuck is it self inflicted?

What concious choice does a transgender person make that should stop private businesses providing treatment for their problems?

All will be gassed.

>Intersexuality is a tumblr buzzword you made up.

LEL. How biologically illiterate are you? There are several forms of intersexuality to varying degrees.

Literally kill yourself you anti-rational piece of human garbage. :^)

Of course not. I never claimed we knew the whole picture. But we have a pretty good idea of the general processes and from that lens transgender patients suffer from a neurological form of intersexuality.

Males can mimic the brain patterns of females.
The image OP posted is not a very ecstesnive study.
Anyway, the operation is immoral since transfags are mentally ill.
See JHU.

There is no solid evidence that sexuality is biological.
There is actually a mountain of evidence against it.
Claiming someone to be "biologically illiterate" while claiming "intersexuality" is a biological phenomenon is hilarious.

>You're not transgender until you have cud ur benis off

I'm open to changing my mind. Explain why it's a mental illness and if it is how is avoiding your desire to be a girl a "fix" ? Won't that just make the problem worse since you're going against how you were programmed at age 1-3 months?

>estrogens are a high risk substance for developing cancer

> 88% of those kids that want to be a girl/boy forget about it

Epig

Do you know what a mental illness is?
also
>implying we can identify transexuality at "1-3 months"
Literal bullshit.

The tranny freak calling me biologically illiterate and garbage.
You're butthurt because we're right and you can't justify you're meaningless existence aside from being a burden to everyone else. Please do humanity a favor and cease to exist. You're worth nothing to society

You're not.

You're a dude in a dress.

Nobody is abusing anybody who behaves as normal person on workplace.
If somebody starts his/her/its "special snowflake" trip then seriously - fuck off.

I have absolutely no problem with homos until they actively start pushing their mental illness as something normal. "Look,.I'm a homo and you must treat me differently". No, ia treat you as equal member of society until you start pushing your defect as something normal.
It is not normal, it is a deviation, it is nature doing its work and removing defects from gene pool.

Live with it.

Jesus... you must be surrounded by a lot of misery if you make such a grand distinction between the skill level of a suicidal person. Johnny only ATTEMPTED suicide, so he can't be THAT unhappy.

In my world it doesn't mayer whether they were successful or not. Suicidal ideation is enough to indicate that someone is really fucking unhappy.

You have a demented outlook on life.

3 sites with studies published by god knows who that only prove that trans is a mental illness.

Gee Willy. What did I expect?

>The image OP posted is not a very ecstesnive study.

Literally just a pic for the thread cover.

I posted ~50+ studies that explore the sexual dimorphism of the brains of trannys vs the normal population. Sorry dude it's a fucking fact.

Plus it has been controlled against cismales taking feminizing hormones AND pre-HRT controls. You have to actively be trying to deny reality to not see this.

Literally WHO said anything about sexuality?

What does sexuality have to do with transgender identity? MtF transgenders are equally split 33%, 33%, 33% straight, gay, and bi.

What are you trying to say? Intersexuality IS a phenomenon..

WHAT IS:
5-alpha reductase deficiency
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS)
Aphallia
Clitoromegaly (large clitoris)
Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH)
gonadal dysgenesis (partial & complete)
hypospadias
Klinefelter Syndrome
micropenis
mosaicism involving "sex" chromosomes
MRKH (Mullerian agenesis; vaginal agenesis; congenital absence of vagina)
ovo-testes (formerly called "true hermaphroditism")
Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (PAIS)
Progestin Induced Virilization
Swyer Syndrome
Turner Syndrome

The concept of identity is psychological, not physiological. Learned behaviors cannot be passed on through genetics.

>People aren't born a certain way, unless they are
Liberal """logic,"""" folks.

Which one of these URLs suggest without a shadow of a doubt or with very convincing evidence that

" Sex is determined at conception and gender identity is formed ~1-3 months after."

Transgender is body dysmorphia. It's a part of a large growing trend where people ID with a socially invented mental illness. You're not a tomboy anymore, you're transgender. You're not a normal person with stress, you have an anxiety disorder. People like it because it gets it gets them attention. Reinforces the dysfunction. If you have a dick, you're a man. You don't have to follow the norms of what a man is, but you're technically a man. If you cut your dick off and take pills, you're a mutilated man. I don't see how we even have gender reassignment. Gender ID issues is a literal mental illness by DSM5 standards. How do we allow mentally ill people to opt-into elective surgery? It would be like asking an anorexic person if they'd like to amputate their legs to shave off the pounds. Dress/act how you want. That's your prerogative. But asking people to view you as something you're not is deluded. Calling these things beautiful or brave is similar to saying an anorexic person was fat and looks great now.

OP, you got a lot of ammo for your side of the argument. But it's BS, man. These people are fucked. You treat crazy people with dignity and respect. That doesn't mean agreeing that they're Napoleon.

You're ligitmently mentally ill.
Who pays for your neetbux? mommy?

3 sites. Public access research inserted into the public domain by private researchers, public researchers, and mixed institutions.

Literally retarded. Those all come from various journals but are hosted for people to read on that website. KYS

Our tax money should on a local level go to infrastructure, public services (police, emergency services), parks and shit, and education. Curing cancer has enough incentive on its own, but some publicly funded research for scientific topics is okay.

rofl

If transexuality/transgenderism isn't an illness or disorder, then why do you need to go to a hormone treatment therapy, psychological therapy, medical procedures, etc.?

The fact that you need all of this crap to be ok, just shows you that it IS an illness, disorder

Do you know that children brains do grow?
Do you know that brain is capable of taking over some functions of damaged areas?

Stop pushing this deviation lgbt as something normal. Those are medical issues, treat them or live with them.
Illness or being retarded is not normal.
You corrupt the sanity of language and communication with it.

And relax, we are advanced enough to not prosecute or harass you because of your defects. Just say you are defective and be done with it.
Accept your fate.

Woah. So you are saying that mental illnesses show up in peoples brains?!?!

Really made me think.

no one is denying that it is, what people are denying is that the right way to treat it is to help and allow the person to transition.

Please read some more

>I can insert my propaganda research for free
Worth shit. Journals publish anything to get readers.

youtube.com/watch?v=42QuXLucH3Q

Isn't the "fix" to transgenderism to become whatever gender you believe you should be?

How would repressing your desire to do something you really want not make you want to kill yourself?

You may mock, but you bring up a good point. Take a long look at your justice and jail/prison system, John.

>They can't help who they are.
A number of them legitimately can't, and those people should receive the help they require.

obvi Fix the brain disorder, don't break the body.

Not an argument. I own my own business.

Way to ignore the fact I just displayed to you 16 various types of intersexuality. Some which involve XXXY, XXY, XXYYY.

>physical evidence of a mental disorder
>no we are just normal respect my pronouns
k

No they shouldn't. We're not compelled to help anyone.
Our prison system does not reform inmates. It is a place to put people who have no hope of functioning in the outside world, and we lock them away for our convenience and safety. If the majority of sentences were life sentences we'd be better off.

yeah, its obvious but good luck with that

let me just fix these neurons and badabing

But I do accept them. I'm even moving towards a relationship with a cute transguy!! Pretty excited tbqhywf. :3

This is utter bullshit. Sex is determined in the uterus and sexual identity can be fucked up by mentally ill fucks having access to babies.

There is a reason why Nature turns some part of population to homos - they are carrying mental disorders and should not procreate.

>learned behaviors
There is no evidence to suggest that gender identity is a learned thing. Evidence suggests the opposite.

Cred Forums likes to point to Walter Heyer who owns SexChangeRegret.com. In his story, he was sexually abused and forcefully feminized by his mother. He never learned a female identity despite transitioning, etc. He is a case of what happens when you have gender dysphoria.

Also see: David Reimer. David Reimer had a botched circumcision at birth. He was raised as a girl by a psychologist who even put him in submission sexual positions as a baby/toddler. David never knew he was born a boy but always felt off in his teen years. David killed himself at the age of 16. He was given female HRT as well.

Also see: gynocomastia. Look at how many men suffer depression and self issues with gynocomastia, This is gender dysphoria in cis people.

When you have body parts that don't match the biologically hardwired expectation of what should be you're gonna have a bad time.

>flag

>trannies are all inherently mentally ill
>have fucked up brains
>"HURRRR!! LOOK AT THEIR BRAINS, THEY'RE DIFFERENT! GENDER IS REAL AND IT CAN BE MEASURED!!!"

Bullshit the only other factual sets are xxy or xyy the hermaphradite and that's a genetic defect someone has to suffer through and they don't live very long.
You're still full of shit tumblrina

LEL. Yeah let's just somehow augmented the molecular and anatomical make up of the brain. :^)

Much easier than just giving them hormones and letting their bodies start metabolizing and developing with their brain.

>I own my own buisness
Jerking off on a Webcam is not a buisness.
So no, you don't own a buisness.

You can transition all you want as long as you pay for it.

Is your argument that there is no difference between sex an gender identity?

>sexual identity can be fucked up by mentally ill fucks having access to babies.

I don't know what this means.

a couple ounces of lead clear it right up.

To actually start thinking outside of your fetish box is a good start.

Sexual differentiation of the human brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation. Savic I1, Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21094885

>It is believed that during the intrauterine period the fetal brain develops in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. According to this concept, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation should be programmed into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in transsexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no proof that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation. Data on genetic and hormone independent influence on gender identity are presently divergent and do not provide convincing information about the underlying etiology. To what extent fetal programming may determine sexual orientation is also a matter of discussion. A number of studies show patterns of sex atypical cerebral dimorphism in homosexual subjects. Although the crucial question, namely how such complex functions as sexual orientation and identity are processed in the brain remains unanswered, emerging data point at a key role of specific neuronal circuits involving the hypothalamus.

Coupled with the research on cismen with androgenic cancer that don't see plasticity in these structures it seem this is very likely. More research still needs to be done to 100% this idea.

Fag reporting in. I hate that some haven't dropped you off from the stupid acronym yet.

You're even more degenerate than we are nowadays.

hello fellow Baltic brotheren.

what's it like back home?

An example of fucked up sexual identity - having penis but dreaming about being female because rised by male-hating insane bitch.

Kek sources say literally underdeveloped brain. You just confirmed this is a mental illness

I've read one. It literally said that after a hormone therapy parts of brain that develop differently because of hormones actually did develop differently.
Others were "suggestive" whatever that means but they didn't say anything about control group.
Other try to make the point but actually prove that being trans is a mental illness of weak males that don't get enough testosterone.

Was answer to

so we need to monitor test and est levels in babbies to make sure they don't turn into bodyfags?

>Hating trannys is absolutely blue pilled and denies the biological reality of their condition.
Wut
>They are disgusting like fat blobs, retards, other mental defectives except they flash it and make everyone sick. Who cares what your "condition" is? Some human beings are just genetic garbage and vile, forever despised scum of the earth. Even in Thailand where Trannies live in public they are regarded as "cursed" because of stuff they did in former lives (its a Buddhist country). Pschos, skitzos, fairies blend in better with society if they take their pills and STFU - who would know? That's why they are more accepted, not because anybody tolerates or gives 2 fucks for their "condition", it's because they are easier to ignore. Life's not fair tranny - you make everyone want to barf. Kill yourself and end your pain.

If I thought I could turn out half as nice as that one I'd go for it. Mental illness or not, I want to be a pretty girl.

That's not an argument. You are just wrong. Lol.

XXXY: The symptoms of 48, XXXY syndrome are similar to those of Klinefelter syndrome, though usually the symptoms are more severe in 48, XXXY syndrome. Like Klinefelter syndrome, the presence of additional X chromosomes affects the male reproductive system, can cause physical abnormalities, and can affect cognitive development. There is a greater risk for congenetial malformations and more medical problems.

XXYYY: A Human Intersex (“True Hermaphrodite”) with XX/XXY/XXYYY Sex Chromosomes
karger.com/Article/Abstract/129719

Clearly homosexuality is caused by a defect.

You don't actually become the opposite gender. You become to mangled facsimile in the same way Michael Jackson's a white person. Crazy, unstable people end up throwing all their hope on cosmetic surgery and hormone pills thinking it'll fix the issue. But does it? Now you're a physical freak in addition to being a mental case. The reality couldn't possibly meet the high expectations. You're now just a man with a mutilated penis. You don't feel like a woman. Nothing's different. Except now your genitals are mostly scar tissue. You don't have anything in the future to pin your hopes to. There's no turning back either. The post-opp suicide rate skyrockets.
It's more ethical to kill a suicidal person than to help a transgender person with reassignment.

answer me! reeeeeeeee!

Ask a real doctor. A person that has no political aliment in his work.
I would rise my children how we used to do it in time when they didn't develop into into failures that can't fulfill their basic functions.

IDK, in my base a-OK.

Outside - we have new president.
Female. Literally an unknown entity.
Appointed not elected.
Will see how interesting times will get.

"It is believed"

So there isn't concrete evidence? How solid is the position that gender identity is created so early?

"according to this """concept""""

Is there something more solid than this I can read?

"There is no proof that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation"

Didn't you say it was in the first 3 months? Or am I reading this wrong?

Thank you for actually giving me source.

sorry I meant your gender identity is more developed into the opposite sex or some shit like that

>The post-opp suicide rate skyrockets.
This meme again. What is attempt rates :^). What is evolution of medical procedures.

You are citing Ceicilia Dhjene's 1979-1989 data. She has done three papers documenting the efficacy of SRS. The first data cohort did show what you are talking about. 1991-2003 rates dropped significantly as surgeries improve and hormone treatment improves. Also people are transitioning younger. The average age was 40-50 for a long time. It's now down in its 30's and seems to be moving lower.

Her new research 2003-2011 has a near 0 regret rate. Fuck off and learn to do research.

Do you really think this is the cause? Is there any studies that relate hating yourself because of a shit mother will make you want to become a girl?

thanks. im from lithuania

have a rare for your troubles.

>gender is a social construct
>gender is a structural brain dimorphism that arises 1-3 months after conception

Pick one. Also, can you explain the attention-seekers who suddenly decide to become trannies at the tender age of 28, when they realize that older men don't get much attention unless they make a triple digit income and have an 8 inch cock?

If you have penis then the only way as of yet is to believe in rebirth and off yourself.

Other ways are money-hungry fucks pushing their agenda and giving no shit if you turn out a boy with cut out reproductive organ.

That is to say we have/should have socialized healthcare, whether or not you try to kill yourself or take hormones instead is not my problem and I/we shouldn't have to pay for it

Takes a while to read all that shit

OP literally said Gender is not a social construct in this thread.

If you want to have a proper debate, please go ahead and do that. Otherwise fuck off and strawman somewhere else faggot.

>Is there something more solid than this I can read?

See this post and google these things: David Reimer is the best actual practical example we have of gender identity not being a learned or socialized thing.

Walt Heyer is a good example.

Experiences of gender dysphoria in cis people is a good practical example.

>Didn't you say it was in the first 3 months? Or am I reading this wrong?
My bad. I guess I read that wrong. So yeah it looks like they say second half of pregnancy. That's v. interesting to me.

>So there isn't concrete evidence?
This hypothesis involves a meta overview of all the research in the field. You should read their full article. It has citations and how they arrive at their conclusion. Better than I could do in this text limit.

Idiot. I never once claimed gender is a social construct. Quite the opposite.

Calling every true statistic a "meme" isn't helping your argument. They still off themselves. It's just nature taking its course.
Again you can't justify your meaningless existence

I don't hate trannys but we need to realize letting them pretend hurts them. They have body dismorphia and will never feel right in their bodies, they need couseling and to be made to feel comfortable as the gender they were born into. You don't tell an anorexic to stop eating do you?

Yeah I agree. But thats a broader debate. Specifically with the society we have today given the discussion now it only makes sense economically to pay for tranny HRT for those who have gov't insurance.

Why do you hate transniggers? I identify as a proud black single mom for tax purposes, and yet every time I mention it, I get shit from left to right about how "racist" that is or that I am "cheating". Screw that. You are all bigots.

>has a near 0 regret rate
Willfully ignoring the fact that young freaks will be happy with their new "identity" until the years catch up with them and they can no longer whore themselves to closet cases and cannot find a place in society as castrated men with a hole between their legs - they they off themselves. Those getting SRS now will be killing themselves off at the same rate as those in the earlier studies once they hit middle age and become even more monstrous than they already are.

I really don't care.
I don't care what trannies believe they are, I don't care how they see themselves, I don't care whether or not they're mentally ill, all I care is that they fuck off and stop
>trying to make people pay for their procedures
>trying to make people accept them for what they want to be
>trying to make people change their beliefs or views regarding trannies

You can believe whatever the fuck you want, as soon as you start burdening others with your bullshit, that's when you can fuck right off.

So men and women are actually not equal. Wew he would have thought.

I call it a meme because it literally is. You are reciting things you've heard others say without actually looking at the data. Those numbers you talk about (post surgery regret) literally come from her research. She has done a longitudinal study split into 3 parts so far. You are sitting on 20 year old numbers when SRS was a worse operation, less social acceptance, and worse hormone treatment (jamming tons of estradiol in the liver without an AA).

I called you a meme because it is in the literal definition. You are just parroting shit you've heard before and not questioning its source or validity.

Thanks, meme.

HRT costs very little apparently. The costs of ER from transgender suicide are likely higher according to OP.

Clap-clap.
Too bad we do not have tax breaks for negroes here.
Our not-being-diverse-enough problem would end in a heartbeat.

Again, I don't care, if it costs very little then you can pay for it yourself.

Crazy isn't it? It's almost like everything that left says contradicts itself.

We need to wait a decent period of time to be certain whether these people will kill themselves when they hit X age. There is no evidence since Transgenderism becoming more accepted only in the last few years.

You need to wait a while for anyone to make an accurate assesment of whether these people will kill themselves later on in their lives or not.

They are insane. Can not think clearly.

I like how you say "when adjusted against the regular population" or whatever... which means "when you remove all the mental illness that makes them transgender in the first place, they don't kill themselves at all."

No one cars dude. It's like trying to tell an anorexic person they're not fat. They can't hear it because they're fucked in the brain.

Transgender is patently a mental illness by definition. INB4 so was gays. This is 2016. Our best guess currently, right now, 2016 style, on the backs of all psychology, is Transgender is crazy. Stop enabling them. Stop trying to justify it. Eat a dick. Suck it up. You're wrong.

Developmental anomalies or not, the fact still remains that a sperm and an egg are predestined with a gender at fertilization. There are no in between sperm cells, only male and female.

To separate sex and gender from each other is based wholeheartedly on your opinion, not on fact. The biological truth is that our bodies are designed to operate within the parameters of the two sexes, both mentally and physically. Believing otherwise only handicaps yourself.

Alright, I'm okay with that.

It's about .15 cents per estradiol pill (.25~.35 on the consumer at mark up.

Spironolactone/Aldactone is .10 cents per pill.

HRT is definitely not the pharma jew. Pharma jew is benzos and opiates.

>from start to 21 months: only boob gowth
>from 21 monts to 25 months: cute soft trap
what is this magic?

Using the word "transcare"

Kys

/thread

>There is significant similarities between the brain

Stop right there faggot. Drinking water changes your brain. Watching porn changes our brain. YOUR BRAIN IS NOT A STATIC THING YOU FUCKING NIGGER FAGGOT SO STFU.

TRANNYS ARE DEGENERATE

>parroting shit you've heard before
Except the difference between you and us doing it is that you're using baseless assumptions and tumblr tier strawman, we're using facts and information.
Try harder snowflake

This.
Nice fertilizer you made there, Piglet.

Pretty much this. I don't disagree. That's why I'm not transitioning.

Also, sweet dubs.

I don't care what anyone does, but HRT and operations on your body are unnatural and I would never recommend it

The suicide statistic is shit because there is an epidemic of attempted suicide for reasons like lack of care availability etc.

A freak is a freak is a freak. There is no "normal" lifestyle for an SRS abomination. They are just sex workers and then they self destruct, drugs, booze or the shotgun or all at once - they are never part of society except in sick (((cultures))) like Hollywood. It will never be acceptable, even Ancient societies like Rome and Greece where faggotry was rampant hated and despised trannies - look at Elagabalus. He/Shes will never be accepted - they make people physically ill to look at them

Another wonder of crowded society with no moral standards.

Would you explain why the Atttempted vs. Successful suicide is an important difference?

>tumblr
Good one faggot. Quit assuming anything you don't agree with is tumblr. I've already made clear I accept racial realism. I'm presenting you with arguments and facts I have made with a heavy bibliography of research. This field interests me and I have done a lot of independent research.

You do parrot shit. I'm giving substantive arguments with actual data. You just parroted some numbers you've read before or seen on a youtube video without digging into them. That's the difference between us. I'm here for the truth and you are here for your agenda. I've accepted all arguments presented in this thread as true (racial realism/biological gender differences/mental illness).

You can't make a single argument that doesn't boil down to
>muh degeneracy.

You have no respect for individual body autonomy while thinking your subjective moral lens should dictate the lives of others.

You are a blue pilled, irrational turbocuck.

Have a nice life and if at some point in your dreams you get the feeling that it would be nice to be a man, do not lock yourself out.

It is nothing shameful to be a man.

As if they would go looking for the right care.
They're better off dead

I do accept them. More specifically, I accept their pretty little mouths wrapped firmly around my dick, their nose in my bush and my balls resting against their chin. I accept the tears streaming down their cheeks. I accepted their nose pinched as I slide my cock through their throat - and their arms flailing as they realize they're close to passing out? I accept that too. Hell, if they do pass out I even accept my right to get off with their unconscious body.

But tranny "rights"? That's bullshit and I will never accept it.

Attempted suicide (if not interrupted or just being performed retarded way) is mostly just attention whoring.
Special snowflake chimped out solo and nothing more.

What is your solution to the problem? How can you just work around a desire to be a girl/boy that has existed within your for X amount of years and is hard to avoid thinking about.

If you were brought up as a girl wouldn't you feel fucked up and want to be a boy?

Because I see too many of the same warning signs I saw during the ADHD hysteria of the 90s and the autism hysteria of the early 00s. Guidance counselors and quack psychiatrists coming out of the woodwork to diagnose every child who's a little odd or off and prescribe them thousands of dollars in treatments for something they may not even have.

I was a squirrely little kid in grade school in the 90s. Our school counselor recommended that my parents take me to a psychiatrist, who, of course, diagnosed me with ADHD like hundreds of other students at the school. I got put on Adderal and later Stratera. Both did little to help with my fidgeting or attention problems and really did nothing but make me suffer from nausea and migraines until I finally stopped taking the meds in high school.

Of course I wasn't suffering from ADHD, I was just a bit odd. I got my shit together on my own, without medication, and now I'm a fucking PhD. But now I'm in my thirties, I get serious migraines, I have memory issues, and I have to look back and wonder "how much did all that medication fuck with my brain when I was growing up?"

Same deal here. You've suddenly got thousands of therapists around the country diagnosing every oversensitive little boy and every tomboyish little girl with gender dysphoria and prescribing them to go on radical HRT regimens during their critical developmental years. How many of those kids are going to realize a year, two years, five years later that it was just a phase and that they've now permanently fucked themselves by radically altering their neurological and biological chemical balance at a critical time in their development?

Homo.

Yeah, I don't really understand why the distinction is relevant to whether the statistic is bullshit or not.

>while thinking your subjective moral lens should dictate the lives of others
Pretty much the definition of participating in a society. Yeah. You lose degenerate.

why does pic B remind me of this?

>unnatural.
How? What? Do you even understand the biological and chemical process of tissue development and sex development? The body is entirely capable of producing female or male tissue patterns depending on the active sex hormone.

Guess what else is unnatural? This fucking computer you're on right now. It's literally synthetic.

>why don't you accept trannies
schizophrenics should be locked away if they can't be cured

Holy fuck women are vaginal jews confirmed.

>Any transgender I've met was way happier as the gender they felt they were, so I believe it.
And yet the transitioned trannies kill themselves at a higher rate.

Also:
wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

>everyone I've known who's trans-anything seems to look way hotter after they've transitioned
Altering the appearance is a momentary boost. It won't last. People age. If their entire "well-being" as transcopters is built on their appearance, they're going to crash later.

No amount of research is going to convince me that mutilating yourself is a good idea

You misunderstand. I've fully accepted that I'm a man and behave as a man every day. I'm not even upset that I'm a man, I would just rather be a woman.

who cares, you'll never be accepted as normal no matter how much bullshit you dig up, might as well end yourself

>child who's a little odd or off and prescribe them thousands of dollars in treatments for something they may not even have.

... and fucked up the child in process.
Some people are just not suitable to be parents and some "doctors" are just after the shekels.

>Drinking water changes your brain.
That's hydration. Not an alteration of structure.
>Watching porn changes our brain.
The part most affected is the reward center. It doesn't change your brain per se, it affects how much dopamine is being released.

>YOUR BRAIN IS NOT A STATIC THING
Depending on your definition of static, that can be a true or a false statement. Judging based on your post, I doubt you understand how a brain works, though.

I'm sorry our system of education failed you.

>you'll never be accepted as normal no matter how much bullshit you dig up, might as well end yourself
The leaf gets it. Can't believe i wrote that.

>vaginal jews
Oh god, it's an /r9k/fag.
That explains a lot.

Because they shouldn't accept it.

I try to reason with them, but they never listen then insult me.

>"Sex Change" Surgery: What Bruce Jenner, Diane Sawyer, and You Should Know
thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/04/14905/

>Bruce Jenner and Diane Sawyer could benefit from a history lesson. I know, because I suffered through “sex change” surgery and lived as a woman for eight years. The surgery fixed nothing—it only masked and exacerbated deeper psychological problems.
...
>The transgender movement began as the brainchild of three men who shared a common bond: all three were pedophilia activists.

>There is significant similarities between the brain morphology of ciswomen&transwomen, and cismen&transmen indicating a related origin.
>indicating a related origin
No it doesn't you dumb fuck.

>giant tl;dr

>hurr why has no one poured over literally dozens of scientific studies in 5 minutes. Guess you were all blown the fuck out

Also the indication that trannies have abnormal brain development doesn't make it any more normal then the metastasized tumor that killed my mom.

R9k is cancer.

So you can hormonally grow yourself testicles or uterus?

Did you read this in the book?
I have read science fiction. The Culture is the book series where humans have those "glands".
We are not living in this fantasy world.

But the world is good, nevertheless. Humans as sentient pets to AI. Beat this.

I would love to see one happy ending for a tranny - just one. Lived to be at least 60, married or in LTR, died peacefully or at least not in the throes of addiction or from AIDS. Where are those stories ? Just 1

Your post highlights a remarkable difference between having gender dysphoria and just thinking being another gender would be neat. You don't consider yourself the other gender, as someone suffering from GD would. You wouldn't mind being the other gender. Significant difference. It's one of the most misunderstood things about GD. It's not about inclination, but existential compulsion.

I'm in the same boat, by the way. Just thought your post was interesting.

>you do parrot shit
You're one to talk tranny
>you have no respect for single body autonomy
No I have no respect for stupidity
>muh degeneracy
Only argument I need at the end of the day.
Your existence regresses society.
>bluepilled
Who's the one here promoting an unhealthy lifestyle that usually leads to suicide again?
No because I grew up normal.
These people need therapy and medication.
If they still want to fuck themselves up after that, so be it, but people shouldn't come crying after some faggot realized he couldn't be a she or vice versa and decides to kill themselves.
I have no patience or sympathy for a group of people that want to destroy their minds and bodies and while they're at it, trying to push this deranged lifestyle into our children's educations and lives.
I have no tolerance for regressive maniacs

>taking drugs to change your body because you feel icky
>how is that not natural?

are you retarded? or a leaf visiting new york?

No because the hormones don't control genesis of genitals. The SRY gene of the Y chromosome does this.

Yes, if you could knock out the SRY gene the body would just develop as female.

None of this means we need to cater to the whims of people with mental disorders

God damn truman should have pushed the button on you faggots

I don't hate trannies at all actually, i hate the self-importance they'v been displaying.

for example if i meet with a group of friends and i wanna watch a horror while they all wanna watch an action movie, i'll say to myself "okay, i'm in the minority here, lets watch an action movie". so take this bathroom issue for example. you've got 3 billion women who might understandably be hesitant to share bathrooms with muscled men with dicks claiming to be women, so instead of trannies understanding this hesitancy they just call anyone who's not thrilled by this idea and sees its vast potential for abuse a bigot.

get the fuck over yourselves asswipes, you're not special, your needs don't matter more than the needs of everybody else who was born with correct genitalia

Is your argument that it isn't unnatural or that everything is unnatural? I guess whatever supports your opinion?

my bad for meant to reply to

Even with the SRY gene though if you controlled the androgens and gave estrogens the body would develop everything else female: bone structure, soft tissue (which trannys get), fat distribution, all secondary characteristics.

>trannies
>people

Should we perform routine scans to determine differences between delusional cis people and medically provable trans people?

> Muh genetic, muh body, not muh choice.
Please take a ticket in the same line than all those morbidly-obese people.

I would be okay with doing this. Or atleast for ones who want gov't money for HRT.

Wut?

trannies BTFO
> One large study found that nearly 62% of transgender persons over age 66 were disabled in some way, were highly likely to be depressed and stressed, and to have generally much poorer overall health than LGB elderly persons. (Fredriksen-Goldsen 20131) A study of elderly transgender San Franciscans found that 76% over age 60 were physically disabled in some way, and 52% of the total transgender group reported they were in poor health. In that same study, however, 54% of transgender adults reported that they had taken advantage of community health services in the prior 12 months. While this was a much higher rate than other LGB persons, it is also indicative of the high level of poverty in which transgender adults live. It was also notable that no transgender persons over the age of 69 were encountered in the survey, whereas more than 30% of LGB persons in the survey were age 70 or older. (Fredriksen-Goldsen 20132) In that same study, compared to cisgender elderly LGB persons, transgender persons had more than four times the need for caregiver support, and more than three times the need for mental health services. More than twice as many of the transgender elderly needed a case worker or social manager.
>lovely fate for a degenerate

Depression strikes the transgender elderly more than LGB elderly, with one researcher reporting 48% of transgender elderly adults were depressed, compared to 30% of LGB and 5% of heterosexual cisgender adults. (Fredriksen-Goldsen 20131) Another study of elderly San Franciscans by the same researcher found shockingly that more than 80% of transgender elderly needed mental health services. (Fredriksen-Goldsen 20132) Within that same study it was reported that 26% of the transgender elderly limited their activities due to poor mental health, and 32% had seriously contemplated suicide in the prior 12 months.

Never done anything sexual with a non-tranny man and have fucked 8 women. Only go for passable trannies and don't touch their cock. In fact, both times I made them stay naked.

Trannies are way more submissive than American women. For someone with rapey interests, it's nice.

I'd never go for a tranny who had the slightest body or facial hair, non-passing looks, flat chest, masculine or fake voice, etc.

So how am I gay?

Secondary characteristics do not determine sex.

If you like your femine body you got because of your defects too much and decide do chop off your dick because of this ...
What else it is but mental issue?

>how am i gay for fucking a dude in a wig

>fucking a person which has a dick
>how am I gay
You have some good mental gymnastics to fool yourself. Just accept that you are bi.

OP, you should kill yourself

Stop asking me to indulge in your delusions, faggot.

[Chuckles] You ever been to Brazil? Excellent food.
Even better women.
The fact is, they've got some of the most beautiful, beautiful women on the planet down there.
But did you know that some of those women aren't really women at all? The fact is, Brazil is home to one of the largest populations of transsexuals in the world.
[Both chuckle] They got, they got so many, they even got a tour bus. A special tour bus in Rio.
And it stops at this one particular street corner.
And there's women all over the place.
And everybody in the tour bus looks out at them and then places bets on which ones are actually women, which ones are actually men.
And then when all the bets are placed, these women lift their skirts and they show us their business.
[Laughs] I hear they got nice beaches, too.
I have never lost a single bet.
You know why? Come here.
That is because I know that just because you might see two big jugs up here, that don't mean that there ain't a pork sword down below just waiting to take you for a ride.
could you tell the difference Cred Forums?

>LOL ITS NOT GAY IF I DONT TOUCH A MANS PENIS WHILE I PUT MY DICK IN HIS MAN-ASSHOLE LMAO

I dont care what the fuck science says. Trans people are disgusting and should be rounded up in camps and left to rot.

You have strange fetish.

If you fuck females too it makes you bisexual.

>so how am I gay?

By fucking men in the ass, dude. That's what makes you a closet case faggot.

>[Chuckles]

Stopped reading there

Be I don't have to and I don't fucking want to.

I don't accept faggots either.

Nobody gives a shit about your meme illness. Sage

>Hating trannys is absolutely blue pilled and denies the biological reality of their condition.
"no"
mutilating yourself is never a good idea

what've you got against chuckling, pleb? it's a far superior and subdued form of expressing amusement than laughter

I don't fuck them in the ass. Anal is gross.

I'm not bisexual. I have zero attraction to men. I have zero attraction to dicks or balls or man-ass.

Being a tranny doesn't hurt anyone, unlike violence towards others. Your analogy is logically inconsistent.

Homosexuality is predominantly defined by preferring to be romantically and sexually involved with the same gender exclusively.

Feeling attracted to someone who has all the defining visual characteristics of the opposite gender while not feeling the same attraction toward someone of the same gender means that you're heterosexual. Especially considering the claim that the sight of a cock would be a turn-off. That's not even bisexual territory.

Personally, I believe sexuality is a sliding scale, and fucking a dude (presenting visually and identity-wise as male) doesn't necessarily make you gay. Same as a gay man could fuck a chick and still be very gay.

But I suppose that's lost on people who have a limited understanding of sexuality and think it matters in any way.

But trannyfucker seems to actually care if someone calls him gay on the internet, so ... everyone loses here.

In the U.S. people are free to live how they see fit. However, you cannot force others to agree with you. If you're a faggot who wants to dress up as a woman, that's your choice.

I believe Trangender Fluid theory may be true but im not sure sex change is exactly right.

Because i am a strong believer in Carl Jung's concept of archetypes, he claimed to be the result of evolution.

This would imply there is a caring mother in each male of us.
And there is a warrior in each female.
There is a submissive slut in each adult male.
And there is a sex preditor in each female.

The male psyche is just more dominant most of the time in males. And vice versa for females.
But they are indeed fluid, not black and white, in my understanding of the psyche, even though i never bothered analysing my own feelinds. Im just a male and never questioned it the slightest.

With regard to deformities found in transgender people's brains.
These evidences of brain deformities may be just an indication of increased risk for someone to feel transgendered. Rather then a defenitive proof.
Did reseachers take in account there may be millions of males feeling male and being happy about it. Yet have the same deformities as these transgenders have?

>I don't fuck them in the ass.
>Anal is gross
I now regret I spoke in your defense.

visual characteristics are irrelevant. if you are aware that it's a tranny, you're making a conscious choice to fuck someone who is biologically male. the fact that this doesn't disgust you is what makes you gay. not that there's anything but horrible music taste wrong with that

Wouldn't those stories, by definition, not be news and therefore go unreported?

>Plus HRT costs literally pennies.
They can grow boobs, but they will never smell like sweet, real pussy. You can't fake those pheromones for more than a few hours before your musky man-scent makes me wonder why you smell like a locker-room and why my penis isn't attracted to you.

THE NOSE KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GASH AND AN AXE WOUND

>abnormal
Inappropriate to their physical equipment, you mean. I've always felt that this was a case of the brain development going awry so that the end result is the brain doesn't match the body. It's not "abnormal" in the sense that the person has two pieces of equipment that each belong to different sets. Nothing's wrong with either piece of equipment, but they don't belong together. Talk about a shitty development.

I'm sorry about your mom btw.

Why are you shilling for trans people, if you aren't yorself one ?

Perhaps I'm not traditionally transgendered. I don't think I was born to the wrong body, because that sounds silly to me. Whether by God or nature, how could I have the wrong body? Doesn't make sense to me.
Rather than "not minding" a gender change, I'd pretty much do anything required if I could change my gender, I just don't consider mutilating my body to be changing its gender.

>I fuck men, but I'm not attracted to them

white knight allies are more common than you'd think

That's not true. Scent changes with HRT.

So, you let a dude blow you? TOTALLY not gay then!

I've already said in this thread. My best friend is a mtf transgender person. I never expected it and I have a hard science background and I am redpilled so I started researching all this.

Right wing media has been pushing these stories in order to rile the base. Not sure if they're still doing this but back when the bathroom hysteria was really bumping a few months ago Breitbart would have every single bathroom sexual assault incident across the country on their front page; 99% of which were perpetrated by normal men

>visual characteristics are irrelevant
In attraction? In sexual attraction? In the sight that gives you the genital tinglies?

You serious?

>if you are aware that it's a tranny, you're making a conscious choice to fuck someone who is biologically male. the fact that this doesn't disgust you is what makes you gay.
But we're talking about sexual attraction and sexuality, not about about your personal definition of a term based on what you would perceive as conscious agreement to homosexual implications.

Also, some people are not deterred by disgust, but turned on by it. Repulsion has little to do with sexuality, or sexual attraction.
Along the same lines, a number of homophobes (as in phobic, fearing, not averse or hating) get some real big boners when watching gay porn.

But that's getting very specific.

Make a new thread. You don't understand that the sole purpose of having two genders is to procreate, since the diverser outcome of the offspring. By choping of your balls, chemicaly or surgival you loose the ability to procreate

I know of one where there is an ending. Transitioned early in the history of such processes. Lived to be 75, had a good time. Married a straight guy, who knew obviously. They seemed very happy. No AIDS or anything. I also know two m-to-f trannies who seem very happy in their lives. One works for a sheriff's department (clerical worker) and is the best clerk in the place--both before and after. The department was surprisingly supportive. The other is a performer, currently working (successfully) in reality TV and cabaret in LA. She's a tough cookie. Very stable and ambitious. No drugs or alcohol. In a longterm relationship with an older man, they seem happy. The first one has stayed straight in that he used to date girls and now is with a guy. The second has always liked men (was a gay male, that is) and still is exclusively into men.

I actually don't know any f-to-m trannies, though I met one once and had a very interesting convo at a party about how much his emotions had changed since going male. Funny thing is, his opinions about female emotionality and irrationality given his new perspective sounded very Cred Forums.

I've known both men and women, gay and straight, who've flamed out or had major problems from drugs, booze, AIDS etc. but none were trannies per se. One was kind of into that line of thought (cross dressing male) but he's basically a fucking nutjob with defective genes, and a huge addict (gambling) and chronic liar/sleaze, so I wouldn't attribute his issues to gender dysphoria, just closeted faggotdom. He got AIDS from cheating on his then-wife with a gay black tranny prostitute so faggot got his just desserts as far as I'm concerned.

>and I am redpilled
Clearly not.

>Implying trannys wear wigs.
>because only xx can grow hair out
Jesus, what are you 9?

>presenting cohesive arguments based on concrete evidence is not redpilled

Plebbit is that way bud >>>

It's really fucking simple

Transgender people have a condition called "being Transgender". A person with the condition thinks, feels and behaves differently to a person without the condition, and thus the condition is a type of mental illness. (Sub in ANY mental illness here, and you'll see it fits the definition.)

If it were possible to treat the root cause of the mental illness that is transgenderism - the brain - we would. We'd be giving transgender people 'antitrans pills' like we give depressed people antidepressants. But we haven't worked out how to treat transgenderism. The brain is too complicated for us to be messing with it at the moment. Instead we're forced to treat the symptoms - not the cause - of transgenderism. Instead of fixing the Tranny's brain to fit their body; we adjust their body to fit their brain.

Here's the thing though. Trans people are the exception to the gender system. Society doesn't have to bend over backward to accommodate them. We don't print books backward so Dyslexic people can read them properly, we teach Dyslexic people how to cope with their disorder. We don't tell schizophrenics that the voices in their heads are real and valid, we try to treat their disorders with drugs and therapy.

Similarly, we shouldn't be telling Trans people that their condition is a good thing, or that it's not a mental illness. It's not right to treat MTF Transgender patients as women, because they're not women and to treat them as such for their own comfort would be lying to them. We have to help them overcome and deal with their condition, not lie to them and tell them that their condition is valid and good.