Are atheists who turned into Christians usually more intelligent than most atheists and regular Christians...

Are atheists who turned into Christians usually more intelligent than most atheists and regular Christians? I feel like out of the three, I have the more intelligent conversations wit the people who have gone from religion to atheism, then back to religion again.

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no

The fact that you went back to Christianity proves you have little intelligence.

>inb4 tips fedora

I am one of those you speak of. I was a Christian, then turned atheist around 16 years old. Thankfully, the Lord showed mercy on me and called me back.

All of the atheist talking points can be successfully answered if you look for the truth.

Explain why, I'll be happy to spend some time debating you.... for the glory of God.

There's no proof of God's existence and the events of the Bible are unfeasible.

The only argument I've heard is that some parts of the Bible are literal, and some are metaphorical. But isn't the whole thing inspired by God? Who are you to say which parts are literal and metaphorical?

Obviously the highest tier is Christian -> Atheist -> Buddhist.

Same senpai, was a deceived atheist from around 15-22. Been saved for a little while now.

We know Buddhism reminds you of your home in China, but that doesn't mean that it's better.

> There's no proof of God's existence

There is, but it's not the kind of proof that you want. By "proof", you mean to say that you want scientific evidence that can be tested accurately.

Unfortunately, what if the Creator didn't want you to have that?

Although there ARE little known prophecies that are written in the Bible, that have come true, that prove that the Judeo-Christian bible is accurate and inspired by God.


> the events of the Bible are unfeasible.

The events of the Bible are not supposed to be feasible. They are not supposed to be events that can be recreated by science. They are miraculous, one time only events generated by a Creator God.

For example, when people say Jesus can't have risen from the dead because nobody has ever come back from the dead. My answer to you is, yes, I know. That's why it was special when Jesus did it. It's a one time miracle.


> The only argument I've heard is that some parts ....

What you've heard is doctrinal differences between Christian branches. For example, some Roman Catholics believe that the book of Genesis is allegorical. While some Protestant Christians in America believe that the book of Genesis is literal.

These are differences in doctrine but they do not affect the overall message that God wanted us to have.

Asking this question at strangers on the internet and basing your conclusion on their anecdotes is evidence for your lack of intelligence

That is true, just observe the comments on your thread, and see which individuals are posting flawed arguements, and will discredit any arguement for Christianity by rubbing it off as "false," without any actual elaboration. Afterwards, see how these people start to insult your intelligence in order to get their "arguements" across.

Anyone who is not a child who converts is the opposite of intelligent. If they can't hook you in as a kid religion makes no sense

Who do you talk to inside of your head? Who you think you are, who you want to be, what you think you are, who you think I am, or purely a passive being merely realizing your have the power to look ahead or behind and cannot control now and is that leader you on a higher level or is that God? Either way you must answer to yousself or someone else and that by definition means its not always you, or always you, but there is a higher question to be asked....always depsite the progress of science to prove away the unexplained.


I am God among Men

>intellectual arrogance
You think you are capable of understanding the laws of the universe and therefore are creating limitations on your reality.

Atheists think they are smart enough to understand the origins of the universe and discredit the wisdom of ALL of their ancestors, whose collective life experience overshadows their own by many degrees.

>How can a person incapable of remembering to brush their teeth, incapable of completing simple arithmetic in their head etc... draw conclusions about the vast universe they have occupied for merely an instant? Do a reality check guys.

In general order of most intelligent to least

>people who don't give a fuck and just go about their day
>atheists/theists
>
>
>people who are overly concerned about other people's personal beliefs

Our ancestors also believed that prayer could heal disease. They weren't right about everything, Jean-Pierre Francois Martin.

There's a huge number of Christians in China who are natives right now and it's still growing. I don't know why soft liberals in the left are so quick to jump on the "Buddhism rocks xD" train, only can guess it's from their marxist indoctrination centers telling them about the """""""""""evils""""""""""" of the crusades and boy molesting catholics.

Religion makes "sense" to a lot of adults, some of them the smartest men and women who have ever lived. For example, did you know that the Nobel prize winning scientist Heisenberg was a devout Christian?

I will administer the Redpills from here on out. We all see the same thing, look at these boards. Everyone understands what the world is, but we all express it differently. The most extreme voices are the first to yell panic, because they are the first to see it.

Can we stop with the Buddhist meme? Buddhism is a Confucianism oversimplification that is inferior to the thing simplified. Buddhism is stupid. The only two religions suitable for the adult mind are Christianity and Confucianism.

I don't talk to anyone inside of my head. I have never heard God speaking to me in my head.

>Unfortunately, what if the Creator didn't want you to have that?
Why would it do such a thing?

>Although there ARE little known prophecies that are written in the Bible, that have come true, that prove that the Judeo-Christian bible is accurate and inspired by God.

Are these prophecies backed by accredited historians?

Inb4 bible proves itself

>Can we stop with the Buddhist meme? Buddhism is a Confucianism oversimplification that is inferior to the thing simplified. Buddhism is stupid. The only two religions suitable for the adult mind are Christianity and Confucianism.

Hate to break it to you, but no religions are suitable for the adult mind.

Do you need proof from others to verify that they are in fact self-aware entities, not just figments of your imagination?

Or do you take that for granted?

The problem is, that we are taught not to believe how crooked the game is. Yet we don't know if its better to stand or sit. But we all know what we want to do, just not sure if its right. Then you realize that only doing what you want is the only right way, and the doubt you felt was only the weight of societies judgement. the one created by the owners of the game. Having the call their bluff of importance.

How do you know that the people you spoke with today, or yesterday were in fact real, and not just your imagination?

How do you know that these words you're reading are not just hallucinations of your own?

Who did you talk to within yourself to create that thought and action of replying to me, prompted from the environment, postulated in your head, judged within you voice of reason, and expressed publicly back to me. What was the power that did all of that processing without your attention? you or god?

...

No. If you read the Bible, Christ says to throw away your pride and arrogance.

>(((materialist science))) at work

This man knows.

Doesn't anyone here know a single thing about quantum mechanics?
What do you think this means for how your brain actually works??

You have to be trolling.

>Our ancestors also believed that prayer could heal disease. They weren't right about everything, Jean-Pierre Francois Martin.

Surely, they had cause to believe this to be true. If 10/10 times prayer did nothing, then everyone would lose faith, no? Has science been able to explain placebo (faith healing) yet? In fact, it is a scientific peculiarity that we all have chosen to ignore.

Great meme. I'll probably commit suicide soon because of your enlightened post.

anyone who willingly thinks worshipping that fucking degenerate kike Christ is a good idea is a cuck
at least if you're raised Christian you have an excuse why you took so long leaving the Jew worshipping cult
but to think that bowing down to a bastard desert kike is a good idea you must have serious mental problems
ironically the christkikes think Muslims are stupid

dirty kikes

I was raised and atheist and turned christian. I like my life a lot better now. Atheists always bitch about"u dont need le fair tales for u mooorals" while thats true you dont need religion for EVERY moral judgment you make, but I am on my best behavior now since I always think what the big guy upstairs would think about my actions. Especially when it comes to lying.

if you claim to be atheist and you convert you were not a true atheist unless you believe God revealed himself to you personally, in which case you are mentally ill. These kinds of atheists are just edgelords trying to rebel against their parents.

>What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it?

>And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing:

>And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?

>I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.

>>Unfortunately, what if the Creator didn't want you to have that?
>Why would it do such a thing?

Do you expect to understand the will of an entity, who exists outside of the limitations of space/time, who is so powerful that it created you, the planet you live on, and everything else around it? Such arrogance.

As a catholic:

Old testament is made by men, who were inspired by the presence of God.

New testament is made by men, who - inspired by the son of Godfather, Jesus - wrote down their experiences.

So the old testament is the tradition we always should think of and the new testament is the recorded word of God.

Yes, and this is as much a modern day thing (Ed Feser) as it is an ancient thing (St. Augustine)

> Why would it do such a thing?

It's a complicated answer, but it's part of God's plan for baby humans on this Earth crib.

However, to give you a short answer.....Why not? People who want to rebel against their Creator and do whatever they want, will keep doing that even if God himself appeared in the sky and proved himself to the whole world. God created the simulation that we are living in. Those who want to find him, will. Those who hate him and would rather believe he's not real, will do so. This will happen regardless if God proves himself to you or not.


If your heart sets out to find your Creator, then you don't need evidence. You start by Faith, and then you will soon find God in your spiritual life, and he will prove himself to you, personally, then.

Scientific evidence for God won't change people's hearts.


> Are these prophecies backed by accredited historians?

Yes.

However, we'll always have some secular atheist scholars who hate the idea of living in a universe with God, so they will attack it, but if YOU look at the evidence for yourself, you will see it is true.

There are several prophecies that came true, and you can fact check it with world history books.

In fact, the Bible has been a source of accurate archaeological information for centuries, and it has NEVER been proven wrong (archaeologically).

That's a nice thing to say. Thanks.

then you have to ask yourself, do they really know something I don't know, ore see it differently. And the answer is no, but you can only understand this by proving it to yourself, by objectively looking at yourself and being fulfilled you were all you could be, and try to always be more of want you want to be remembered by

>By "proof", you mean to say that you want scientific evidence that can be tested accurately

Yes...that sounds like proof.

>There is, but it's not the kind of proof that you want.

The fuck is this shit?

>Unfortunately, what if the Creator didn't want you to have that?

Or what if the "journalists" of antiquity who wrote the bible were off their face on some drug? I have "proof" but it's not the kind of proof you want. It's called the "I just fucking said so, so there" proof.

Please kill yourself immediately. Preferably by getting someone to nail your ass to a plank of wood.

God gave Humanity free will and creative abilities. So me.

Your simplification of such a complex issue highlights your own ignorance.

why do you believe in any specific religion? how do you know yours is the right one?

>Yes.

However, we'll always have some secular atheist scholars who hate the idea of living in a universe with God, so they will attack it, but if YOU look at the evidence for yourself, you will see it is true.

There are several prophecies that came true, and you can fact check it with world history books.

In fact, the Bible has been a source of accurate archaeological information for centuries, and it has NEVER been proven wrong (archaeologically).

please post credible sources

Religious people are less smart , that means when a atheist converts he loses some of his iq

Yes, generally speaking.

Atheists worship science and scientists are their gods. Too bad science is mostly theoretical and man himself is flawed.

What really wakes you up is acknowledging that some of smartest people in the world (the ruling elite) worship Lucifer.

You are not ready to explore ideas which challenge your values, or lack thereof. One day when you've discovered peace, you will be ready to search and to understand.

lel he wear a funni hat XD what a loser

listen little guy, i know atheism is new to you, but its not just about going to heaven.

A Q U I N A S

Q

U

I

N

A

S

There you got your proof, or at least hints for the existence of God. I'm not going to spoonfeed you though.

...

Dutch people are less smart. They've been shown to have the lowest iqs in the world

I wouldn't say going back to "religion" but yeah I was a teenage edge lord athiest. Became agnostic because you can't prove God doesn't exist to now thinking that some things really happen for a reason

Free will is only free when their is a challenger to take it. Or else it would just be will.

I take, therefore I control, what you have, which is what you think you are.

On the right patch, just walking on the wrong side

What does "credible sources" mean?

I can give you the Bible, and you can fact check it with world history books or websites. You will see it is true.

But if you mean "credible sources" as in mainstream academia.....

You have to understand that this world is mostly influenced by the demonic, aka Satan and his minions. The secular academic world is liberal and atheist, and hates God. I could have PROOF of something supernatural, and they would reject it as an "anomaly yet to be explained by science" and ignore it, because it doesn't fit their world view.

>christian profecies never came true
really makes you think

I have it penciled in for the day after all people like you are exterminated.

How do you know you're awake right now? How do you know you're not in a coma, mentally retarded and therefore incapable of understanding faith, and incapable of having it yourself?

...

You're not ready.

Probably (generalisation), because they've lived the lie of atheism/agnosticism to know they'll never go back there again. Atheists are bluepilled spacefags.

...

...

Nice zinger bro, you're clever.

Because I can control two things at once and still see. I'm replying to you physically aware of it, and I'm about to get another beer to change my mental state....DESPITE....the fact that I logically know it isn't right. If I was in a coma I can only think about what I want, and like water choosing the easiest path, the mind naturally chooses the most exciting thoughts about oneself

>everyone who disagrees with me is demons
kek

>you're clever

Sadly you're not qualified to offer this opinion.

>1 post by this (((id)))
Come on guys

WE'RE COMING FULL CIRCLE

The Bible prophesied the destruction of Babylon, the rise and fall of Alexander the Great with accurate details of what would happen to his empire....

The Bible also has fulfilled prophecies on MANY local, lesser known Kings that came true....

The Bible also foretold the coming of Jesus Christ, pin pointed to the EXACT DAY AND YEAR that Jesus entered Jerusalem....

and more.

Damascus should be in ruins soon.

>You think you can control two things at once
>You think you are replying to me, not just to yourself, and your own thoughts.
>You think you are the one who wants a beer, not me who wants you to have the beer, and caused you to go get it.
>You think your thoughts are your own, but how can you know for certain where they came from, when you are often merely the observer of their passing?

No, you are very smart. Smartest user who has ever graced Cred Forums. You've got everything figured out, and obviously know everything.

lmao you're praying to a dead jew who got killed not only because he was a traitor, but because he was sick in the head - going through an identity crisis.

what a cuck.

wow. what a retarded fucking analogy. nigga there is no good reason as far as i know (please feel free to correct me) to choose one religion over another. on the other hand, i am literally experiencing things as we speak. i believe that i am alive andrew conscious because of the fucking stimuli that is flowing to my brain right now. everything in my life has led me to believe that i am living and breathing in this moment, yet i've never seen any reason to follow on organized religion

True but that is because we smoke to much weed .

people on Cred Forums have be prophesying the destruction of america too m8
when that eventually happens are you gonna admit meme magic was real all along?

that's not an answer. i geniuinely want to know what the thought process of an adult convert is

why do you care?

Exactly! Theres always another voice to be heard but its never the voice that asked the question. Only the enlightened can align both thought and understanding at the same time. But there is always another thought to be had with every new application of understanding

As a borderline atheist who turned to God, I would agree. All the questions and doubts I had as an borderline atheist that I thought really made me edgy and "so smart" really made me think about life and our purpose and then I realized all the answers are there all around us and inside of us through God.

Well I went from Judaism to Atheism to Catholicism. Something atheists don't understand is religion doesn't "have" to be totally true. It's not a science textbook. You can use faith for all the benefits it provides- community, morals to reign in your sinful nature, a foundation to fall back on, general help in having a purpose.

In my view there are three foundations to making a man the best he can be. Mind, body, and spirit. Many atheists will fill the void that comes with a practically nihilist world view with things like philosophy and culture. This is good, but supplementing strong wisdom with a faith will do wonders in giving you mental and moral fortitude. I guess you could say I'm a "practical theist", I submit to Jesus Christ and the Christian faith because I know its teachings and its faith will help me to not only reign in my own sinful inclinations (used to be an absolute hedonistic degenerate when I was an atheist) but also helps in strengthening my resolve in the face of adversity. It gives you encouragement and strength.

Living a faithless life can be a very sad one indeed. How much do you value feeling like a smug prick who "is too smart for religion"? Is it better then reaching your full human potential?

...

my nigga why the fuck would god not want me to have proof of his existence? sounds like a real cunt to me

When I was young Christianity seemed like a very obvious joke to me, so I said I was atheist.

As I grew old it started to seem impossible that the nihilistic tv static universe just came into being randomly with no greater metaphysical design, maybe not all the way but at least farther than my senses can ever take me, so I decided I believed in some form of god, usually a naturalistic deist kind of vision of.

tasty b8!

That's to be expected with anything. If you were brought up as a Christian or started out as an atheist, you probably haven't critically assessed your beliefs.

It is reasonable to doubt Christianity. My criticism of atheists is that they keep their skepticism on a leash. It is okay to doubt God; but turning that doubt on their own life, on their own self, on their attachments, on reality itself, is far too uncomfortable.

If you are an atheist and you are not in a perpetual state of conscious despair at the uncertainty, emptiness, absurdity, separateness, finiteness, selfishness, meaninglessness of your existence and your degenerate animal behaviour, you are living in denial.

If you are honest with yourself and are in despair, then knowing whether God is real or not (and whether there is absolute meaning, value, etc.) will become a need that will overwhelm your spirit. You will be like a man dying of thirst or a man on fire seeking water.

I was an atheist, and am now a Christian, so I hope so.

I thought the protestant meme started in 1500 , and the catholic church still uses sacred clothes

If there is a god, it is the god of the jungle, and so the Christian god is hard for me to see as anything more than fable.

You swim against the current, or be carried along with it, getting somewhere but knowing you didn't do anything to influence it. Do you have the power and fight? or Is it better to observe?

Well, they are without a doubt thoughtful people who are interested in the topic.

Going back to religion, however, isn't a smart move. Evidence doesn't become apparent in these cases, it simply metastasizes in the brain of discontent people in this case. Which is to say that they aren't more aware, they are just more desperate.

Take a moment and consider the fact that you could be wrong. You've taken some fundamental things for granted, as truth.

>You THINK you chose what to believe
>You THINK you are experiencing external stimuli, not internal hallucinations
>You THINK your memories are flawless, inerrable and 100% reliable.
>You THINK that you have a good understanding of religion.

You have access to all the same information as billions of other people on this planet, yet, you think you are more clever than these billions of people, and that they are mere idiots for adhering to a set of values and holding faith, in something you do not understand.

Do you see your arrogance?

Atheism is societal cancer.

"I was once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see" with the right mindset could be referring to former atheists who became born-agains.

لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

Most Atheist who became Christians would probably be among the first to admit they don't really really know what the fuck's going on.

Kill yourself Achmed

For fucks sake

What makes you think you're capable of understanding why?

You don't understand. There are details involved.

One of the prophesies about Babylon was written at least 300 years before it happened, in the book of Isaiah.

In this prophesy, it names the VERY NAME of the King who would take over Babylon..... Cyrus the Great. The Bible even prophesied that this great King Cyrus, would restore the Jewish Temple. And that is exactly what Cyrus did. He allowed for the reconstruction of the Temple.


And that's just ONE example.

We could go over Alexander the Great.... or many others.

Similar thing happened to me too. Like im more an agnostic but holy crap I'm glad I was raised with some Christian values instead of this empty nihilism

>You have access to all the same information as billions of other people on this planet
By your greeted statements and their reasoning, this is an assumption.

>you think you are more clever than these billions of people
Some people are more clever than 90% of the population. It's as simple as that. Also you are trying to make an appeal to popularity fallacy. It is perfectly reasonable to say that 90%, hell, even everyone but you, is wrong, given proper rational. Socrates didn't give up because everyone hated him, because he was right.

>and that they are mere idiots for adhering to a set of values and holding faith
The majority of people are stupid. If anything, the fact that you want to fall in line with them says more about your intelligence than it does our arrogance, which isn't saying much considering it's a guilt by association fallacy of sorts.

>in something you do not understand

Former Christian here. I understand Christianity more than the majority of Christians, that's for sure.

If you had evidence that God existed, what would you do differently than you're doing right now?

Would you humble yourself and change your life and devote your time to understanding your Creator and what He wants for you?

or would you keep doing what you're doing?

All,

Read Romans 1

Goodnight!

I wonder who could be behind this post
*shecklehands

>confucism
Leave that for the gooks. Buddhism is for Aryan man in all his forms.

My niggers. I'm a firm believer that we need a return to traditional values, and Christianity is critical to that imo

بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ (١)
ٱلۡحَمۡدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ ٱلۡعَـٰلَمِينَ (٢) ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ (٣) مَـٰلِكِ يَوۡمِ ٱلدِّينِ (٤) إِيَّاكَ نَعۡبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسۡتَعِينُ (٥) ٱهۡدِنَا ٱلصِّرَٲطَ ٱلۡمُسۡتَقِيمَ (٦) صِرَٲطَ ٱلَّذِينَ أَنۡعَمۡتَ عَلَيۡهِمۡ غَيۡرِ ٱلۡمَغۡضُوبِ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا ٱلضَّآلِّينَ (٧)

This.

I was a deist, a Christian, a confused and scared child, a Christian again and then an atheist again, and after all of that time, I haven't gained shit. I have only learn't that there is no substance to any of it and that I don't have a fucking clue.

>Christians to atheists to Christians
Once you swallow the redpill you can not go back unless you value ignorance over freedom.

...

gaytheism is the blue pill though you retarded mobilefag

They aren't mutually exclusive. You can believe in most things and still be free regardless of ignorance.

And it's not so much ignorance that takes you back. It's self reflection, doubt, and emotional struggles.

w-whoa, that's incredibly specific, wow
for the authors to know the specific name of the guy who would conquer babylon, that's just so incredible
almost like large parts of the book were written during the babylonian captivity or something

I was raised in an atheist liberal hell hole of a family where I witnessed all manner of degeneracy from sexual to drugs and violence.

I don't want to go back. I don't believe I can ever get into heaven but I have faith in god regardless.

>he doesn't realize Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the same story with the names and dates changed
>even rudimentary analysis is beyond his comprehension because looking at something objectively might show him to be a complete fucking retard
>science seeks to answer all the questions you pose definitively and with solutions that can be checked and verified
>you decide to just "believe" in "faith" instead

profound pity face related

The redpill is not defined by popularity but what is true.

>Once instance of Jesus Christ carrying out the unbridled will of God, being his own, and wrecking a church

He preached pacifism. He, however, like the God of te old testimate, can pass his judgement on the living. For instance, the Jews would not have been allowed to carry out the wars they did without the guidance of god. God made a commandment of them, he did not say that they can exercise the right to do something similar again.

War simply eins't justified.

>Turn the other cheek
>Give him your shoes
>Don't kill

Tell me where Jesus says you can kill people.

>look for the truth
wow thanks I'm a christian now
this does not help me find the """""truth"""""

>Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the same with names and dates changed

Holy shit you're retarded. Judaism is the Torah (old testament), Christianity is the OT and NT (Gospels), Islam recognizes the figures of Judaism and Christianity as parts of the chain of prophets which in the end culminate with the prophet, Islam being the final word of God.

They're not the same you retard, they follow a chronological path with common agreements on history and powerful figures

>has science been able to explain placebo yet?
Yes

>you have to stay in this shitty thread forever

you're missing the point. I have REASONS actual fucking reasons to believe those things. I have yet to hear even a mildly compelling reason to convert to an organized religion

>Christianity
>European culture

Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.


Killing and murder aren't the same thing. Defending yourself or land with lethal force isn't murder.

>Are atheists who turned into Christians
unicorns

If you think Cuckstrianity is not a slave morality you are leaving in denial, true men think in other values such as strength and courage.
Instead Christianity advocates for an altruistic way of life, which is contradictory to everything Cred Forums advocates.
In fact I believe those in this board calling themselves Christians aren't really devout, but fascinated by the possibility that religion "stops" degenerate behavior, as a tool to a purpose, obviously this my not apply to everyone.

read At the end of the day I don't want to be forcing faith on people who would choose to not believe, just as I would like for them to respect my choice to believe. But I do think religion can help a lot of people. Just think many people who can benefit should entertain the idea.

>it's like one big harry potter marathon

Essentially the only thing you don't agree on is what the ending is. Aside from all the people on the other sides being condemned for eternity. You're all sure about that.

These sorts of delusions should result in you being sectioned in all honesty.

As an atheist, I was able to imagine that the universe and life came about like that. For example, by invoking the anthropic principle and beliving that all possible universes exist and that reality has a kolmogorov complexity of zero

Imagine if we found ourselves in the most perfect utopia, with no suffering, and a being who called himself god came down and performed miracles whenever someone demanded proof of his existence.

It wouldn't change anything. It wouldn't make the existence of God any more likely or unlikely. There is still the same inherent uncertainty in our perceptions, and that god could just be a neckbeard running our early 21st century universe (or just you) in a computer simulation in his mother's basement in the year 2100.

What does a world with God look like? What does a world barren of God and absolute meaning look like?

I think they have to look the same objectively -- aside from a few instances when He intervened and came down to save His creation when they were about to completely and irredeemably fuck everything up for themselves.

The only difference would be in YOU, not in the world of external perceptions (the universe).

one of the biggest differences between christianity and islam (and jews) is that in christianity god became a man. this is why white cultures seem to value human life more than black and asian cultures. this gave our race an entirely different perspective on ideas of freedom and slavery. this difference can't be highlighted enough.

Nice strawman, show me the great pagan architecture and culture of yurope prior to Christianity. How many rain dances and gay orgies can you pull up?

>implying the alternative of no religion hasn't created a degenerate society lacking any sort of morals or direction
>implying the point of religion to condemn others

You poor fool. Enjoy your sad life. But I do hope you give some thought to some of the comments here including my post on why I became a Christian. It's not just about being a smug prick who feels "right", it's about being the best man you can be. Take care.

moron

So arrogant of you to believe that you know that such a thing even exists and maybe even know the will and desires of this thing.

>Are atheists who turned into Christians usually more intelligent than most atheists and regular Christians? I feel like out of the three, I have the more intelligent conversations wit the people who have gone from religion to atheism, then back to religion again.


Yes. It is actually a fairly normal pattern of intellectual development for young people.

The longhouses are pretty neat even thought they were covered in dirt. The eddas are also nice paces of writing that tell of great tales of strength and virtue as opposed to cuckoldry.

Sure, their structures did not last, but they didn't need to.

A lot of Roman and Greek stuff still stands as well, I might add. The Christian cathedrals were build and preserved far better, however. Ultimately, Europeans were originally pagan, and they also encompass everything "good" about Christianity. Not that modern societies is necessarily good.

I didn't mean to say "built better" I mean't to say built later.

Are you familiar with Peter Hitchens? I think you would like him paddybro. I followed the similar process of mental maturity

>been reading his book The Rage Against God, largely about his own personal journey through Atheism back to faith. He's on youtube/news a lot though, very outspoken conservative

>show me the great pagan architecture and culture of Europe prior to Christianity
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

>Intellectual

Hardly. It's purely emotional.

>white people made christianity good
the truth is christianity shaped european culture and writings for centuries to the extent that it created europa. to try and seperate the european ethnic stock from that is just pure deracination.

I'm an adult and I chose to believe in Santa again, coincidentally I'm also much more intelligent than the average Santa believer.

No. What did Christianity add? The strength of the people was always there. The development, the empire, everything.

Christians actually borrows a lot from the pagans, actually.

Christmas=Yule for example.

And of course the kings and lords were not a Christian concept. I fa fall of Rome happened, little would have been different except there would be less fucking holy wars between Christians and other Christians, and less repression of the masses. Surfdom followed Christian Rome, and don't forget it.

>Are atheists who turned into Christians usually more intelligent than most atheists and regular Christians? I feel like out of the three, I have the more intelligent conversations wit the people who have gone from religion to atheism, then back to religion again.

Like most issues it depends.

For people who stay christian their whole lives due to cultural inertia then yes the mere fact they questioned will make them more intelligent and rounded people.

For former athiests who just read Dawkins if that and didnt explore it beyond their teens then chances are you arent going to see much more intelligence. At best they will be more understanding of similar people at worst they will bring that same unbelievable smugness and biggotry that defined their athiest period.

For people who take the faith seriously and study it beyond the minimum chances are the former athiest would be less intelligent.

>what is Greece
>what is Rome
the love you people have for your Jew god is unreal

This is an interesting argument. Did Christianity make Europeans great(er)? Or did Europeans make Christianity great(er)?

I think Christianity enhanced European society and helped in its transition from the tribal peoples of the north and hedonists of the south into a more self restrained and dignified people, allowing them to create the socities they did. Just a thought. Still an interesting discussion

Top jej.

10/10

What's complex about it? You either believe in a fairy tale with no evidence of its veracity or you don't. If you demand more evidence as atheists purport to demand, then nothing short of god's true revelation would suffice.

I personally love Christianity as an important myth for western culture but I don't believe there's some all knowing all seeing being that will judge me for jerking off, using the lord's name in vain, or telling my parents to fuck off (something I'd never do because I respect the family institution). You're free to believe in that and I support Christianity as a defense against the spread of Islam but it ain't for me.

>Self retained
>dignified

An even greater majority of the population was put in metaphorical chains. Honor was rarer and rare, especially as chivalry died. Plots, schemes, and war between greedy people who should by all rights have been one was constant. Good government died with the Greeks and Romans until thousands of years later.

And those tribal people are not any less. They were cultured, and both histroically and in lore had a concept of honor that Christian Europe only ever paid lip service to.

>create the socities they did.

Christian societies were fucking garbage until the enlightenment. Sure, they were powerful, but it was also miserable. Everything was in a constant shift. How could a medieval surf sleep soundly knowing that in the coming years his town will become property of another Waring lord and then another, and then another?

You think Romans and Greeks had that same anxiety for the majority of their civilization? Do you think the Scandinavians were always in a state of internal struggle?

No.

Christianity prescribes how one should act in accordance with God. It provided little guidance for statecraft, and if it did, it wasn't listened to.

god took the pagans into his fold because they figured it out on their own.
>For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves
god is reason and that is what europeans always held to which made them mighty.
the hebrews were the chosen people of that era. this is why they retain so much power to this day, they were the actual master race in B.C.
jesus took their power and gave it to the gentiles, and the niggers and jews are still mad at us to this day for ruling the world, because they know the truth. deep down we all know the truth.

But m8 statecraft implies that there is supposed to be a left.

kek.

Austrians prove once again they are funnier than Germans.

>the love you people have for your Jew god is unreal


When it gets to the point that the only manner you have to interpret anything metaphysically or politically is via antisemitism I think you can safely say that you have gone off the deep end and are not worth a fuck,

This is irrespective of debate relating to jews themselves.

You're just a brainless cunt.

Is it wrong to go to church if you no longer believe in any of it? I stopped really believing in Catholic teaching years ago, but I still go at least twice a month and stick up for them in conversation whenever it comes up.

I've read CS Lewis and Kierkegaard and shit, but I just can't rekindle any of the faith and enthusiasm I had when I was younger. I just sit in the pew, listen to the homily, eat the communion and go home like I was some kind of robot.

I guess if I were struggling with faith people would understand, but it's not even a struggle anymore. I guess I just like the building.

>god is reason and that is what europeans always held to which made them mighty.
That's an assertion.

When you say God embodies a good thing, then suddenly you can take credit for everything.

That won't fly in this argument.

Those pagans, like what wills soon happen to Christian Europe, were outnumbered in their own lands, and eventually emulsified. With tyrants on their doorstep, they could convert, and enter trade with them, or fight them.

The gods were not afraid of war, but they certainly didn't wish the death of the tribe.

I doubt that the pagans truly gave a single shit about your desert religion. I think they just liked getting past the trade embargo.

They still kept the rituals alive, and so the embodiment of the Gods still happened. Even still, with Christmas and other celebrations with pagan origins (where do you think the egg part of Easter comes from?) the pagan gods are still kept alive.

>eat the communion


You are neither a Roman Catholic or every have been one. And yes it is that easy to spot.

I base my views on anti semitism because it comes from the bible
saint paul said that jews are the enemies of the human race.
I didn't come up with this idea, I'm just trying to follow this guy.

?

>pagan religions
>not copies of Christianity

European pagan religions were weak and ill formed. There's a reason Kings bent to Christ in their time of needs. Manichaeism and Zoroastrianism were more reformed 'religions' but fell to the brutality of Islam. Also, in your scenario they'd kill all the muslims like the Serbs still want to do.

Yeah, the communion isn't the blood and body is it? It's the ritual itself by my understanding, so it would only be correct to say "take" the communion, right?

Eucharist is a gay word though.

the catholic church absorbed all those pagan traditions because it is real.
and it destroyed your culture of sacrificing animals and getting revenge on each other because that shit is stupid.

you're a gay word

>filename
>lulzy canadian in-joke

Are you an Atheist turned Christian? I'm currently on the fence over converting -- I love the Christian morality and want to apply it to my life, but I becamse an atheist during high school.

Looking for advice from anyone desu (especially those who are atheists converts -- please let me know if you are). I still remember what I was taught as a kid (when I was Christian) and love the morality I just became STEM and questioned the logic behind it all.

Nothing is ill formed about the pagan religions. They make GREAT placebos for pagan kings and warriors as statecraft and war are taught by individual gods that you can focus your mediation and general concentration on.

To know that their is a god guiding you to rule your people specifically, and also one smiling upon you as you crush you enemy, would have been a help indeed.

Not only that but the germanics and the celts had functioning societies for thousands of years. Everything that allowed them to exist for so long was incorporated into the lore of their religions. The wisdom of hundreds of generations is condenses in those stories.

CHRISTIANITY is the young, ill informed religion.

>the catholic church absorbed all those pagan traditions because it is real.

What is real? The ritual that reenact the deeds of the gods?

>and it destroyed your culture of sacrificing animals
Lot of that in the bible.

And they ate the animals by the way. Unlike the Jews, who just threw them away.

As for getting revenge, it about justice. The pagans had a justice system. There is literally nothing wrong with getting revenge on someone who wronged you, and seldom would it result in killing, but justice. Killing kin was a bad thing do do, and you would in tern be sentenced to death.

Look, just fucking listen to the morality and keep your head on.

Your questions of the logic are just as valid now as they were then.

You are looking for comfort, not truth, which I am sure you have criticized people for in the past.

Damn dude, that last part really hit the nail on the head, thanks. Sounds good with me.

Just wondering but do you think it would be worth it to read through the Bible at least to dig deeper into the morality? Is there more depth to it than simply "love thy neighbor, don't covet thy neighbor's wife"?

Yeah, there is plenty more depth. It's not exactly gibberish. I twas written by lots of people, and the old testimate especially is based on lore a millennia old.

>unironically triggered by words
I think tumblr might be more your speed, friend

Nah, I've only talked to or known of a few people who've done this and they were either scientifically and theologically illiterate or deliberately dishonest apologists who were never atheists and simply lying to play off their audience's beliefs. I'm in no way saying that that's true for everyone who's flip-flopped between the two positions, but that's the extent of my experience with them.

Sound's like what I thought.

It's starting to really seem to me that the Christian morality and belief in Jesus Christ is simply an attempt to otherize what a "Good Person" is. It's like 2000 year old Good Boy Points kek

No they are by far the worst. They are the fedora intellectuals of the religious community.

Unlike born agains, people who have always been religious rarely talk about it, unless they are American but Americans are insufferable in general.

This doesn't apply to Muslims, fuck muslims

A lot of it, in my mind, is indeed a good boy points system. Rather than having to go through what the Greeks did to make conclusions on morality, they can assign themselves objective authority, which makes everything easier.

read this my friend. Converted from Atheism to Catholicism Strong mind, body, and faith are the pillars which will make you the best man you can be

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OP's hypothesis is probably true... if only because changing religion requires a bit of thought.

Remember: smarter than average is a pretty low bar.

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