Why did the good guys lose Cred Forums?

Why did the good guys lose Cred Forums?

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The game was fixed

And who exactly were the good guys?

>MARTHA
>WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?

You know who

I love that scene because it shows that Batman was misguided and completely forgot to see Superman as a human. The whole film is about lies and how these superheroes are being mislead against each others and in the final moment, right before execution he realizes he's the monster he's chasing. Sort of like Luke Skywalker tearing Vader's arm off and it he sees his own robotic arm. It's cinema poetry.

>implying they portrayed Superman right
Fuck off. MoS and BvS ruined him

We know how Superman is portrayed in the hands of Marvel hacks.

>look he can fly!
>look he says the funny stuff and does forced smiles!

Disgusting. Morally repulsive. Cinema abortion.

and then Superman causes the deaths of thousands of people because he's too stupid to take the villain out of the city

and then that sociopathic racoon saves millions of people by keeping suicide bombers away from a city

it's a cool idea but they fumbled the execution, objectively

The Superman that saves billions of lives and is then forced to fight against a super-bred Kryptonian general in which he, through the grace luck, barely gains the upper hand at the end. Superman is not a Gary Stu.

Snyder was fighting Disney smear campaign machine, SJW bloggers and critics and on top of that a retarded WB management that kept forcing him to expand his films for more characters with less run time.

He was fighting a battle nobody could in this climate.

For You

>console-war tier bullshit over brands of fucking capeshit
Can you all just please kill yourselves?

>superman
>debates whether or not to save people whilst looking down on them
your fedora is showing

Mr. Freeze..what sad motherfucker. T_T

from the 80´s to now people like the edgier characters and does not matter if they are the good or the bad guys

Pretty good picture OP but I always liked this one more

>debates whether or not to save people
He never does that. To him that choice is obvious. Why he dies for them.

There isn't a single moment in the DCEU more emotional than this.
youtube.com/watch?v=OgKy6Exqj_s

Serious Comicbook movie are a dead trend. Go back and read TDKR reviews and you can see critics even giving Nolan shit for being humorless. Marvel has shaped what the mass audience think CBM have to be like and DC must follow or die.

Ah yes Spidey the Avengers fanboy who is also a literal twink. What a role model for kids. They even hired a literal fag for the job.

Yet people loved Logan and it was a box office hit. People want serious comic book movies that are GOOD, which the DCEU movies are not.

Critics liked it because the whole film was FUCK DRUMPF, WALLS ARE RACIST.

The actual film at the BO performed like any X-Men would.

And then Drax gets one of the most emotional moments in the movie.
youtube.com/watch?v=NTMcqpAzS9c

That scene was literally made for toddlers. Even the score leaves as little as possible to imagination.

>Why did the good guys lose Cred Forums?
>youtube.com/watch?v=wfLOt5P6nSk

That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Nice projecting. You're just like the SJWs looking for a reason to get offended so you look for messages that aren't there.

triggered disneylet still doesn't get it lmao

If you think Logan was in any ways "serious" you're fucking deluded. Bet you think just because it had gore and curse words it was "deep". It had less substance than fucking GoTG. And it was desperately masking its own shallow nature through gore and thinly veiled political statements for easy critic points.

...

This from the guy who thinks BvS has depth when it doesn't even have characters who have been properly developed or that we've had time to get to know and love. People felt NOTHING for Superman's death.

Meanwhile people had know Hugh Jackman's Wolverine for almost 20 years. We saw his struggles, his pain, and his hopes and then we saw him finally achieve happiness at the last moment of his life. DC wishes they could make a movie as good as Logan.

Your argument is literally "no, u" shut the fuck up

DC wishes they could make a thinly veiled political propaganda film in which characters are acting like literal retards to create drama? And then the villain is Logan in reverse but without the implications Doomsday has on Superman? And then the kids are brought over Drumpf's racist border control and Logan dies? Bravo!

Batman's line would have been great if they took their time and gave him a few solo films so we could see the broken promises he's talking about.

>Superman the normal kryptonian defeats the Super warrior Kryptonian who was bred for war.
>Superman is not marry sue guys.

Listen to yourself.

Logan was loved because it as a send off, just like people loved TDKR despite how silly it was.

NO I DON'T WANT TO USE MY IMAGINATION I DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT THE CLEARLY DISPLAYED ROBIN SUIT WITH JOKER'S MARKS ON. GIVE ME MORE BUILD UP MOVIES DEECEE

If he was Mary Sue, he would've solved the dilemma posed on him by Zod and Lex without any costs. But he does pay heavy prices in both cases. In the first, taking a life. In the second, taking his own life. This is why he's not Mary Sue since the difficulties his presented with are without perfect solutions.

>And then the villain is Logan in reverse but without the implications Doomsday has on Superman
What implications? Superman doesn't even knowledge that Doomsday is Zod.

Meanwhile X-23 is a massifestation of Logan's worst fear, his animalistic feral side that's nothing but a raging beast. The scene where X-23 comes down the steps and they just look at each other, Logan being unable to believe what's he's seeing and 23 seeing Logan as weak and inferior leaves a lasting impression.

...

M-muh Jewperman.

DC wanks...

why cant we just use our imagination why do we need it all pointed out? The less told is a better take on his mental state imo

why can't superman be fun?

Do you think Doomsday was Superman in reverse? No. Doomsday was the manifestation of all twisted that Superman was accused of being but wasn't. Lex creates a twisted Superman and throws it at him and says "this is you, motherfucker. Have fun". The symbolic victory of Superman when he kills Doomsday is he also kills this perception of him and the world unites by his side again in the ending.
"The blood on your hands."

Why must everything be the same quippy and fun? What's the point of 20 capeshit films a year that are barely distinguishable?

oh i dont know, maybe because its enjoyable

Repetition is not enjoyable.

Because they have likable characters who act like heroes, while DCEU Superman does nothing but brood, complain, and kill thousands of people yet for some reason is still celebrated as a hero.

Because fun is boring now. I'm not even a fanboy the shitty DCEU movies but I wish superhero movies could be serious again.

Are you always this intellectually dishonest? I know it's a capeshit thread but come on.

Yet Snyder's Superman is far more heroic and earnest and compassionate than any quiplord of the MCU. So much that you have to invent literal lies to make yourself feel better about your ignorance.

Man of Steel is my favourite anime

Name an MCU character who leveled a city and then made out with his girlfriend in the middle of the rubble.

Well superman's disguise is a pair of glasses.

No matter how bleak, dark, heavy, and serious you make the character, you will never erase his ridiculous nature.
So just make that motherfucker fun, and be over with it.
If I want to mope I'll watch Requiem for a Dream or Amores perros.
superman is just not the right vessel for serious heavy-handed drama.

>the most lucrative movie franchise going
>never broke away from its mold
you were sayin?

>Name an MCU character who leveled a city
Tony Stark when he charged that alien straight through World Trade Center and then quipped about it being a party.

>and then made out with his girlfriend
A touching last kiss before a potentially life-ending confrontation with Zod. Most people would excuse him for the sentimentality.

>the most lucrative food franchise going
>never broke away from its mold
you were saying?

This. Also, unlike a certain film that shall remain nameless, your flying opponent won't just go shere you want just because you declare an out,-of-bounds.

"Establish a perimeter," my fucking ass.

Whats your point? McDonald's is still loved and enjoyed by the vast majority of people

Hey you mall cop! Stand behind that car and give me a perimeter against this air-borne laser-shooting alien army!

>Superman holds all the blame for the rampage of destruction caused by 3 renegade Kyrptonians

>In the first, taking a life
Which has no lasting impact on his character. It also comes out of no where because we never see him having a no kill policy

>In the second, taking his own life
And he comes back three movies later even stronger. Truly a great consequence.

People may eat it in extreme quantities but it sure as fuck ain't healthy for them.

Well thank God for fast food. Learn to love it, because that's all we'll be getting from here on out.

What about smallsville. It's the fucking country side, he could have taken Zod in literally any direction and fight him in an empty field. Instead he takes him directly into his home town and causes and insane amount of damage.

>And he comes back three movies later even stronger.
3 movies is a long time for capeshit, and he wasn't stronger. If Marvel killed off Cap he'd be back in 3 months when the next movie came out.

hey guys ive heard all these arguments before so im gonna take off and check out the catalog okay bye

>And he comes back three movies later even stronger
Almost like Snyder intended for Superman to rogue with a Black Suit....Almost as if....

>Which has no lasting impact on his character
Except when he's on the ground crying like a child over doing the unforgivable. But hey, you're the one accusing him of being emo. Suddenly he doesn't dwell enough on his actions?

its all fast food at the end of the day, its just marvel dont try to sugar coat it into looking like something its not

At what part of the fight was Clark ever at liberty to turn the battlefield away from Metropolis to somewhere else? He even tries to punch Zod away but he kept flying back from it stronger than before.

You're right. He lost his head and made a rookie mistake. This guy you insist is a Mary Sue.

>telling cops who want to help how to do so more effectively is bad

>implying the lines on the right weren't funny
It may not be highbrow, but it was amusing.

Bullshit. Just look how "important" Black Panther is.

>telling cops who write parking tickets to establish a perimeter against an enemy that is completely airborne and thus is absolutely retarded to even assume a ground perimeter would work
Just admit the whole last part of Avengers was absolute raping. Like Hulk saying he's always angry. Like Tony quipping when that skyscraper comes down with potentially thousands in it. Like them eating a kebab the day after, Whedon making the implication this 9/11 x 100 event was actually just a wild night at the disco.

>superman is NOT a mary sue
ok, now I've heard it all...

Actually namrepuS is Superman in reverse.

They would be funny under different context. Strange was trying to stop him from executing a guy and then he stops to have the exchange about his name.

>telling them to do something impossible is good

How many no-fly zones you ever seen some street cops establish?

Soyboy alert

> not connecting the dots on a fantasy story.

you DIsney fags are killing the art of storytelling.

This. The quip itself is not the sin but how Marvel presents them. The story always requires me to basically not give a shit about anyone. Like haha that guy died but whatever the quips go on. And then the emotional moments are so melodramatic it comes off extremely manufactured and done by the numbers.

>The single best scene from a slew of shitty movies vs one joke from a comedy movie

To be fair, the Dr. Strange on was funny and the only good bit of the the entire movie.

So which is it, faggot? Taking the fight into Smallville was a genius move that worked perfectly or it was a bonehead move? Because Mary Sues only make mistakes that benefit them.

honestly
how do you post that with a straight face when that moment literally points out the over sexualised aunt may
fucking tasteless retard
eat shit

> I want him to be perfect but not too perfect.

no wonder the mouse swallowed all of you so easily.

superman is the literal definition of a mary sue

Quads of unvarnished truth. Sexy Aunt May completely misses the entire point of the character.

t. never read the best Supes comics

Aren't you the guys who praise Snyder for changing Superman and Batman?

I know what they were going for.

>hey Aunt May is such a relic of the 60's. Aunts these days are cool and liberated and with sex lives! Let's take her outta the kitchen and into Tinder!
We don't know how good Raimi was until we lost him. Nothing in the MCU will ever beat Aunt May talking to Peter about the importance of heroes in SM2.

wait, whats the point of aunt may? Homecoming at least made her into eye candy

Day of the dead seems like such a sweet holiday

>keep making a parallel betwewen him and a fucking mesiah
>what the movie actually shows is him using his powers to destroy a man's life because he bullied him
actual christian ethos hero would have helped even the ones who harm him
>he was on the verge of using his power to murder some kids that were bullying him even though they couldn't possibly psychically harm him
again; instead of being on the christian ethos; he's shown flirting with sadism and revenge
>only a "hero" because he's practically unbeatable and can fly face first into a teraforming laser without even scratching his suit
>his "sacrifice" is having to snap a guy's neck

Snyder changed Superman less than you think. It all depends on which comics you're looking at.

The version dumbasses like you insist on is, yeah. He's all yours now.

By the way, the way Killmonger dies in Black Panther? That's the textbook definition of death by Mary Sue - villain refusing help while the blameless Mary Sue tries to convince him to let him save him. It's exactly the kind of bullshit comics had been trying to break from the entire Silver Age.

that rare pepe is dank.

Superman was doing that guy a favor.

Mark 10:25: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Now that man is without riches.

Mother of God. That's the fucking point. He's not Jesus any more than he's Horus or Apollo.

Is Lex a saint?

Superman is not Jesus. Superman merely parallels Jesus. You must learn to distinguish these two. There's even a biblical passage in MoS that says he's not Jesus.

Horus and Apollo embodied natural and abstract elements of reality. They weren't just guys with superpowers.

you faggots take capeshit and comic books to seriously.
At least marvel knows this shit is dumb and has fun with it.

The point of her is that Pete is all she has. She's old, frail, widowed, and Pete is all she has left in the world. The same is also true for Pete, and he's terrified that her learning that he's out risking his life on a nightly basis would quite literally worry her to death.

In Homecoming, they treat the revelation with all the gravitas of a teenager's mom finding his porn stash.

We all have fun in our own ways. I just wish this genre didn't have only one way now.

>the scene could be fixed by simply changing "martha" for "mother" or "mom"

and yet people and critics loved logan
>a completely serious
>deep and thematic journey
>about demythologization and the death of a genre.
...get this dceu shit out of here it's over.
enjoy aquaman.

It wouldn't. It might be less goofy, but the whole thing had already become a joke by the time Batman hits Superman in the head with a sink.

But then you lose the redemption arc of Bruce literally saving Martha and ridding himself of childhood guilt. It would work but the poetry would be less potent. You're right that normalfags would probably like it more.

>Martha won't die tonight

A promise to the little boy Clark.

this.

The way flash runs pissed me off to no end. I really enjoyed the two earlier movies and the sense of danger. Justice league was to forced with the quips and strayed to far off the fear of annihilation.

Dat defensive behavior.
The point is that the movie was obviously trying to put him within the confines of christian ethos with the dialogue and imagery except the script of the movie misses the whole point.

Superman never goes the exact opposite way of sadism and revenge; at best he avoids using his powers to hurt some kids, except he also uses his powers to destroy the livelihood of a guy he didn't like. Even though I'm an atheists I can clearly see that there's no scene where Superman has the "charm" of the christian ethos. It's basically all bark no bite.

...

who stands like this when a lot of people are worshiping you? This is the most arrogant pose you could do in such a situation

Maybe he is assessing the situation and deciding who needs his help first. Or should he just fly down and save the first person he sees?

That, my friend, is what is known as a non-point.

Stop defending Disney's low-effort bullshit. That sort of attitude is what makes shit like The Last Jedi possible. "Sure, it's fucking silly and doesn't even give enough fucks to avoid contradicting its own rules or turning Luke Skywalker into a prop comic, but at least we got a "yo mama" joke. Those are still funny, right?"

>>deep and thematic journey
Logan has the depth of a puddle. You just won't see it since the film blinds you with overly dramatic nihilism, gore and general misery. It's a bad film and not even entertaining given it's self-wallowing state. Logan is literally everything haters accuse BvS of being and none of its good things.

if the guy is as fast as the flash does it matter?

A quip or two! And then a forced smile. And then Well folks remember to fight for truth and justice! And remember I'm cooler than Batman!

Woosh! *Shitty hack Elfman music plays*

because they tried to appeal to everyone. The older fans, kids, modern comics fans, nostalgia folks and fans that want some realism.

If DC was doing well internationally they should have stuck with their formula.

He's looking back at the burning building to make sure he didn't miss anybody.

>That, my friend, is what is known as a non-point.
How is it a non-point? Gods embodied and represented abstracted concepts, something that Snyder's Superman does not.

>I'll just survive in the vacuum of space and save you

explain why bvs is a better film then logan.
Don't worry, this is a safe zone.
No one will judge you for your objectively wrong opinion.

leaving things in ellipses is too much for the average film-goer apparently

He's looking at people doing a modern-day rendition of the Passover. It freaked him out and made him aware that even the *order* he saves people in sends a message when people are looking at you as some sort of god.

>a thinly veiled political propaganda film in which characters are acting like literal retards to create drama?

You just described BvS.

logan was pretty good until the third act, at which point it all fell apart. A wolverine clone was just a slap in the face and a cop out

You're still confusing parallels and literal figurative embodiment of Jesus. Something Superman isn't.

>superman is an ideal to strive towards
I never understood this logic. Only thing that makes him special are superpowers.

Because the bad guys were the executives who fucked with Snyder's shit since BvS.
Man of Steel was great, but WB wanted it's fucking cinematic universe.

...

Because Millennials are permanent manchildren that need to be pandered to in the most repetitious, juvenile manner possible...?

Tell me the political message of BvS.

>misses the whole thematic point, of having a logan clone antagonizing logan.
bravo.

>missing the point of superman

there was no thematic point to a logan clone. stop memeing

And it's openly acknowledged as garbage food.
Just like Marvel is garbage film.
Being popular doesn't make something good.

Yes there is. The clone is a representation of Logan's worst fear.

Because ultimately BvS is embodied with optimism that isn't found in Logan. The sacrifice of Clark results in a better world where Bruce has found redemption and reason to be a better man. He says this in his ending speech. His perception on mankind has changed because of Superman. And while Superman may be the dead, we the audience are comforted knowing that his death meant the rebirth of another superhero, the Batman.

In Logan, there is no such uplifting optimistic message. He saves the kids. And dies. And what more does the story leave us with? Not much. He was a drunkard and a loser in his final years but he fought in the end. I guess you could say this is a redemption arc? But did it really have the same gravitas and implications as Clark's sacrifice did? Not really.

please explain it to me

Logan lacks nuance in its message. Rainbow children crossing the border = good. Evil ex-soldiers with prosthetics trying to stop them = bad.

BvS, among many things, carries the subtle message of how much harder it becomes to voice an opinion or take a political stance as a visible immigrant, because your opinions and your actions are under the microscope and endlessly analyzed, and twisted into things you might have never intended.

In contrast, nobody cares about Clark Kent taking on the Batman.

which is?

So, summarizing;
>Superman is not Jesus
>Superman is not a christian
>We are supposed to praise superman for not being much of a sociopath and restraining himself from beating up his peers
That's not a hero. That's just some guy who's lucky to have superpowers. And all those monologues and imagery trying to sanctify him is just cinematic drivel.

Not him, but the idea is that Superman is ultimately a highly altruistic and compassionate individual, which doesn't actually describes Snyder's Superman at all.

All Logan ever wanted was a family, and he got that.

>almost two years since the Dawn of Kino
>BvS still has the marlel plebs confused out of their brains

His feral side that's nothing but an animal. He has entire scene with Laura where they talk to each other about their nightmares, and his are about him hurting people.

>dude im scared of myself
this is worse than i thought

the whole point of this thread is that Man of Steel's original trajectory for the DCEU was fucked over by the suits to appeal to plebs and was taken over by literally the worst director over at Marvel.

This. He also was about ready to die at that point. He'd lived a long fucking time and his life before then was godawful.
He at least got to die fighting and accompanied by someone he loved. Especially gratifying considering he had to watch everyone he ever loved die up to that point.

It perfectly describes Snyder's Superman. No other superhero has to endure what he does, an authentic setting with real dilemmas that would be born out of actual conflicts. See this is why you don't like this Superman. Not who he is, but because he is confronted with those decisions that makes you uncomfortable. Your perception of a hero is one that doesn't need to make these decisions. Or one that is above making these decisions. Snyder rightfully makes the opposite claim: A true role model makes these decisions and navigates himself in our world. Not some cartoon escapist bullshit.

Snyder never worked at Marvel.

I just couldn't bring myself to like that shitty girl actress enough to care. Kids in movies are awful.

Face it,that part would be way better if it was Liev Sabertooth instead of a shitty clone.

Superman finds a way to step up every day. He, no different than the rest of us, doesn't know if he's equal to the task. The only difference is the scale, the heroism remains the same.

He's out actively trying to make the world a better, safer place, to make a contribution, not out of responsibility, but out of sheer, unselfish altruism.

An example that is impossible fir anyine to duplicate in scale, but entirely possible for everyone to duplicate in spirit.

This is the future you wanted. This is the future we warned you about.

I don't like Superman because he is a passive agressive dick.
Like when that one trucker talked shit to him in the bar, he secretly destroyed his truck. That's not something a highly altruistic and compassionate individual would do

>a literal manifestation of logan's inner conflict of the character through out the entirety of the film and franchise.
>the personification of everything he fears in himself.
>the reason he closes himself from people.
>he sees himself as a burden who always brings problems and death to people he cares about.
>haunted constantly throughout the films of nightmares of him hurting people
>seeing a literal version of him hurting people he got too close too.
>sees the version of him he has always wanted to escape.
>version of himself kills charles, the man responsible for helping logan escape his darker side, that version.
>wanting to kill himself with a bullet as a result of these things and hist own internal fears.
>his daughter using that same bullet to kill logan's clone.
>him dying free and with purpose able to be close to someone who cares about him.
>"so this is what it feels like" left up to the interpretation of the viewer because it could mean as many as four different things that can fit comfortablely to his arc.
It isn't hard to comprehend, most people got it, you are just a fucking mook.

Dude what's your obsession with this fucking truck?

BvS was warning enough that WB had sunk it's filthy claws into the franchise.
Man of Steel worked because they didn't fuck with Snyder. Their fuckery was all over BvS and the cancer spread like wildfire when Justice League came out.

>It perfectly describes Snyder's Superman
It really doesn't. Snyder's Superman is actually highly selfish, hypocrital, and prepotent, unless you missed the part where he boasts that his only in under military arrest because he allows so, or when he crashes a military drone and threatens a US general to his face with a smug smile.

He is pretty much an immortal god, and the movies don't exactly show him going out of his way to help people.
I don't understand how he is better than Mother Theresa, or just some random guy who helps at homeless shelter

>Why did the good guys lose Cred Forums?
I guess you mean "Why isn't the DCEU as successful as MCU"? The answer for the most part is Snyder. Snyder had a vision for his movies, that vision didn't resonate with the audience. The studio shares some of the blame as well. They were trying to play catchup with Marvel instead of taking their time and setting up their universe properly.

I don't think Snyder is a hack. I have enjoyed several of his movies. I really liked MoS. Snapping Zod's neck was dumb as hell, but overall it I liked it. But it was a turn off for many Superman fans because Supes was a lot more grim than they were accustomed to.

BvS was a clusterfuck. The actors that played WW and Lex were wrong. And I have come to accept Gal, but 'nuLex' is terrible. The reasons for Batman fighting Superman were silly. "Martha", enough said. And why, on top of everything happening in the movie, would they introduce Doomsday?

JL wasn't any better than BvS. Snyder-fans want to blame Whedon. But they aren't being realistic.

None of his movies were flops. But they weren't the blockbusters that the studio wanted. I wish there had been a few more movies before JL. And on top of that let Snyder do his thing without interference. We would still have nuLex and in your face "deep" symbolism, but at least BvS wouldn't have felt so crammed.

I like capeshit. I'm not beholden to any one company. I would like to see DC/WB do well. But so far it hasn't done well. And that is primarily because of Snyder.

>That's not something a highly altruistic and compassionate individual would do
No shit. He was an amateur.
If Snyder just made Man of Steel 2 like he actually wanted we would've seen his character develop more beyond that.

with all the subtlety of a klaxon

no one will remember bvs and clark's sacrifice as long as people will remember logan sacrificing himself to save his daughter and her hopes and friends.
Stop lying to yourself.

That "sanctifying" imagery you're referring to is mankind looking upon a god-like being and trying to fit him into their preconceptions of what a god is.

Batman vs Superman shows Superman becoming evil just because his girlfriend died.
Meanwhile, there are countless people who lose loved ones and continue doing good.
Superman is certainly not a role model, is a ticking time-bomb

You realize that was one of the only strong points of the movie and it's lifted word-for-word from a comic?

You mean that drone they were following him home with?

>No shit. He was an amateur.
That isn't how it works. If you want to establish Clark as a compassionate and altruistic individual, the correct thing would be him helping the trucker even if he was a douche, without expecting nothing in return.

It's even more ironic that WW was the one the general public liked due to being kid-friendly and simple. While not bogging it down with stupid quips

there was literally no need for that sacrifice, and i pity you for buying his sacrifice in the first place.
And considering it was building up to justice league only buries bvs further into the ditch of mediocrity and messy writing.

this actually lessens logans impact in my eyes... feels hamfisted

Yes, the one that the crashes in front the car where the US general and proceeds to smugly threaten him.

Have you ever even read a comic? Did that giant omega symbol burned into the earth tell you nothing?

That is absolutely how Snyder's Superman works.
He clearly wanted to do a character study. This kid was raised by a man who died telling him to help nobody and look after himself. Rejecting that selfish philosophy being pumped into you since childhood takes time and effort.

>People think this speech is unironically good

This.

I think the most arrogant pose would be if he whipped out his dick and started jerking off. But I guess standing there pensively is arrogant too.

as least it is noticeable, understandable, relatable, clear cut and memorable.
and it was still too subtle for people on this thread to get.
When it comes to finding meaning in the dceu, shit is like trying to pull water from the air.

Batman vs Superman was fucked with on a corporate level. It was already compromised by then.

Not a single threat in that conversation, just a promise.

BvS tried to do way too much.

Because zack never delivered on his promises. He was to focused on hitting you over the head with the subtlest of subtle symbology

>Have you ever even read a comic?
A movie should be able to stand on its own merit and not rely on source material

i am just saying, the way superman is portrayed in the movies, he is clearly not a role model.
he would make a great villain though

> black panther is going to break all sorts of records this weekend as the EIGHTEENTH entry into a franchise
> the mcu has broken dckeks minds so hard they are STILL making asspained threads in 2018 about muh snyder being as subtle as a 2x4 with JESUS PAINTINGS everywhere

the absolute state of the dcu

>this upset over a fucking drone
Post brought you to by soy

BvS should have just been a Superman movie about him deciding where is jurisdiction ends. He has the power to end all war and violence, but does he have the right to? How does he decide which side to fight for when intervening in a conflict? It would have been amazing.

>character study.
>hardly any meaningful interactions with anyone outside of lois and his mom.
>most interactions deal with his conflict, and how important he is.
>clearly cares more about lois more than anything or anyone else.
>no chemistry with lois.
>know nothing about the guy on a personal level.
>hardly any lines and dialogue.
>always plays second banana to other characters.
>dies in second film only to be revived in third.

Bavo.

Exactly. But instead we got his death and a conflict with Batman. They should've kept it simple.

>But it was a turn off for many Superman fans because Supes was a lot more grim than they were accustomed to.
Yeah let's just ignore the previous time cinema Supe encountered Zod where he killed a defenseless Zod cold blood

So acting like a superhero is a bad thing?

kek bavo

No he became evil because JL was supposed to fall into Lex's trap of resurrecting an evil Superman. Death has a price.

These Dcucks materialize so quickly as soon as an opportunity to spout their old tired head fantasies appears. They must dream day and night with that rancid Zack Snyder cock they crave so much. I just wonder where do they go when the conversation is not about the company wars they so sheepishly fight for. Do they keep them in a little box? Do the Dcucks just spend the nights writing those stupidly long useless essays of mental gymnastics they keep in the clipboard, so readily to jump on every DCEU vs MCU thread they see? Or is it themselves who create them? Either way, let me laugh.

...

This exactly, with an older Lex Luthor actively trying to challenge what Superman believes is the right thing. This shit wasn't rocket science.

>there was literally no need for that sacrifice
Brainlet

That until the West stops treating a vendetta like it's some sort of righteous war campaign and until the East does a better job of defining what it is, what it stands for, and starts takingon its own monsters, the elite on both sides will continue peddling fear, paranoia, and xenophobia to both sides through amedia that plays into that very strategy both knowingly and unknowingly, all while that same elite reaps the benefits and keeps making deals with the *real* devils.

Really? The movie made it seem that he went evil because Lois died

>Rejecting that selfish philosophy being pumped into you since childhood takes time and effort.
But he never rejected it. Literally the first civilian that sees him as Superman is after Metropolis had been flattened, and BvS had Martha flat out saying that Superman doesn't own anyone anything and him saying fuck it and going to live in the mountains for a while. Like, Snyder had already should that he didn't really got Batman's character and origin with the first scene of BvS.

youtube.com/watch?v=QfubcZaU1is

Literally the only good scene in all capeshit.

>Yeah let's just ignore the previous time cinema
People who were critical of Supes demeanor are pulling from comics. Not a movie that was made before they were born.

>implying it had to be superman to kill the cave troll.

He is resurrected as Black Suit Superman. But they changed it since babbies were offended by the tone of BvS. Cavill even showed off the suit on his Instagram.

On a thematic and practical level, absolutely.

> This exactly, with an older Lex Luthor actively trying to challenge what Superman believes is the right thing. This shit wasn't rocket science.
it is rocket science to WB

> tfw we have had superman movies since 1978 and we STILL haven't had a perfect live action lex

it's not that fucking hard, allt they even had to do was copy-paste the GOAT lex WB already made

>should
*show

all the good in bvs was in affleck's scenes,cowl or no cowl.
Snyder should've just done a batman trilogy.
The character he actually understands.

BvS Lex is more comic book origins accurate than Donner Lex.

True, but don't forget he was also being a dick to the waitress, just saying.

>doesn't go out of his way

Yeah, all those newspaper clips on the security guard's corkboard detailing everything from stopping earthquakes to missile launchez to foiling crimes, to rescuing literal starving homeless guys, that's nothing at all, right?

Also, what you said about other altruists is absolutely the point. What he's doing is no different, just larger in scale. That's the point that you staunchly refuse to acknowledge.

>The character he actually understands
Because killing over twenty people is totally in character for Batman.

and he was played by a fucking shit whiny zuck

business man lex is the most superior of all lex's. then political lex, then legion of doom lex, then mad scientist lex

One scene that has more meaning than 20 MCU movies

>it's not that fucking hard, allt they even had to do was copy-paste the GOAT lex WB already made
Yeah. That said, I think that Eisenberg did the best he could with the terrible material that was given to him, which honestly describe most of the movie.

I guess you missed the part where that wasn't presented as a good thing.

Space doesn't mean insta-death you know? You loose consciousness at the 40 second mark and that's just for humans.

for this kind of batman sure. I can believe after all this time and death, that batman cracked.
It's superman's lust for blood that i don't get.

The Dark Knight Returns is a fucking joke for not acknowledging the people dead under Batman's tank. Atleast Snyder is not a dishonest fuck like Miller about it. It's conflict people die. End of story.

I really do like that top picture.

>that third trailer with russell crowes narration
man I was so fucking hyped for MoS

...

Even in Dark Knight Returns which Snyder tried to use to justify his retardation Batman never kills anyone.

And now that he has killed a shit ton of people any future conflicts with the Joker have been ruined because Batman has no reason not to kill him.

"Hey Batman you killed a bunch of henchmen, why don't you kill the Joker who murders hundreds of people and ruins lives?"

"I was just having a bad day when I killed those people. I won't do it again."

Mad af

youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY

Great argument. Really activated my almonds and made me think about life in general.

He doesn't owe fhe world anything. If he does, so does everyone, and there's no such thing as a hero, just people doing what the world requires of them. That's what a hero is - a guy under no obligation to step up and choosing to do it anyway.

>I guess you missed the part where that wasn't presented as a good thing.
Not him, but the scene where batman shoots a grappling hook into a car and then spins so he can hit another car with the first one gave me some doubts about that.

Helped that Affleck was aces in the role

>NOT MUH

kill yourself

Because of Miller's retarded asspulls that nobody watching a film would ever accept. This is precisely why Batman kills in almost all cinema adaptions. The no kill shit simply isn't plausible when you see Batman in motion.

...

Okay.

As far as I remember from the movie, Superman didn't actively go out of his way to help people.
He just stumbled into situation where superpowers were convenient (sinking bus, tornado, burning oil rig), but we never actually see him seek out people whom he could help

Wow

This Batman already killed either the Joker or his own partner. It's all over everything about his character in BvS.

WE HAVE TO KNOW A MAN'S ENTIRE LIFE STORY TO KNOW WHY HE ACTS THE WAY HE ACTS
FILLING IN THE BLANKS IS FOR CHUMPS

He just accidently ended up in Mexico.

Yes, but the way it was framed and the overall context made it seens to be that Martha is saying that Supes shouldn't save people if he doesn't feels like it, since no one is forcing him (or can force him, for the matter) and he actually does say fuck it at one point and just leaves for the mountains.

That looks like your average Marvel fan when they’re not soyboys.

Dc stans are usually pajeets

And Eisenberg singlehandedly showed the world why comic book origin Lex was replaced by a better character.

He has an entire montage devoted to it in BvS.

>WB would kill their most famous villian
>Especially after him was shown alive in Suicide Squad.

Yeah, after two years of selflessly performing acts of heroism across the entire globe, and watching the media just only so eager to turn on him at the slightest hint of wrongdoing.

How? He makes the choice to save people every day of his life, despite his mother's insistence that "you don't owe this world a thing", despite the constant press backlash against him claiming he's a monster, despite the dangers his mere existence poses, he works every day of his life to save as many people as he can. There's literally a montage in the middle of the film showing him saving a metric shitton of people from various accidents for brainlets like you who don't understand offscreen implications. Literally the one single time he fails in this is when he's led to believe that he's responsible for the deaths in the Capitol due to negligence, and he decides that the world is better off without a figure like him, only to be instantly redeemed by a vision of his father and go right back to doing heroic things. But I guess since he makes a frowny face all throughout that means he's not a good person? Is that your line of reasoning?

Not him, but the problem is that that montage framed Superman's heroics as a burden to him, not something that he liked doing out of altruism.

youtube.com/watch?v=JCQVnSOFqfM

Snyder's SvB trailers were pure kino. I was just imagening the dilemma about S going full Dr Manhatten about people and their needs and morals, and just looking for his own way. I was so hyped about this dynamic.

That's said, i dont really know anything about this character really.

Oh please. The vast, vast majority of people who complain about that scene have never picked up a Superman comic in their lives, they're just parroting what they're told is how Superman should act by other people who have no idea what they're talking about.

What did this DC kid meant about this?

Especially when his behavior is comic book accurate

>He doesn't know Superman thinks at the speed of Flash
dumb dc cuck

It may have lasted two seconds to you, a human, but to Superman thay eas an eternity.

Oh, do tell. Is that why Lord of the Rings went to such lengths explaining all the references it made that only people who read the books would understand, like say for instance the reason they really *didn't* just fly the Eagles to Mordor? Or precisely what the hell Galadriel was talking about in her scene with Frodo and the Ring?

Critics hate MCU and Star Wars but are scared shitless of Disney
They take their hate out on DCEU

>he thought it was a "lol daddy!" joke instead of advertising the upcoming star wars trilogy
Dumb dcuck

He meant that Yondu was scum, right up until the script decided he wasn't.

Good guys won, user

>tfw no snyder capeshit kino

'cos Bryan Singer is a hack

The good guys did win though. Hack Snyder will never touch DC characters again and Warner Bros got fucked for their incompetence.

He really didn't do nothing heroic in MoS, other than punching a big ass laser, and in BvS he gets a beef with Batman for no reason, and his heroics are framed as burden for him. Also, it might shock you, but "show don't tell" is something older than fucking Aristotle.

I love your first question because it describes BvS perfectly

>my opinion is right, objectively

That's not true at all though and was never even hinted to be the case in the movie.

That scene was insane
What was DC thinking it was a good idea.

Fuck the contrarians; I love Alex Ross.

What about flying to the other side of the Earth and shooting lasers at him through the ground?

They gave too much creative freedom and power to Zach, which doesn't work because Zach is only good at remaking and adapting material, not coming out with his own (see: Sucker Punch).

Who doesn't? His art style transcends superheroes to the level of Greek Gods.

Were you eve listening to the music, or the voiceovers, or anything?

It's at the fire rescue that he first witnesses people reacting to him in a way that really disturbs him. That's the point shifts into that pensive minor key. The talking heads are debating the very things he's pondering as he's trying to figure out why it seemsthings are getting worse in spite of his efforts. It's at the flood that he finally understands fully what his father meant when he said "people fear what they don't understand."

People also worship what they fear.

That's how his best intentions could lead us straight to hell. Superman the hero, the inspiration, is a good thing, but Superman the living god is very, very bad.

For a couple of years comicfags constantly called him overrated. That's looking like an increasing minority these days, but it fucking baffled me at the time.

If by punching a big ass laser, you mean singlehandedly saving the entire population of Earth from annihilation, then yeah, I guess that is ALL he did. Just saving the world. No big deal, right? And his heroics ARE a burden for him, they would be for anybody. But it's a burden he's willing to bear. Ultimately it's his decision to continue being Superman and continue saving the world that makes the difference. And as for your "show, don't tell" point, that's literally the reason I just said that his actions are readily available for your viewing pleasure in montage form, plus the news clippings in the Batcave, plus many, many other examples. Pay attention. The movie isn't about all that, it's about Superman dealing with his godlike, idol persona, so of course that stuff is going to take a backseat unless it contributes to that theme.

not into capeshit but from what i can tell infinity war will end both the dceu and marvel forever.

He also can’t tell a story to save his life and his objectivist bullshit got in the way far too many times.

>Were you eve listening to the music, or the voiceovers, or anything?
Music is primary about its symphony, and voiceovers(or at least the good ones) serve to contextualize the audience about what is happening, not actually replace character actions.
>That's how his best intentions could lead us straight to hell. Superman the hero, the inspiration, is a good thing, but Superman the living god is very, very bad.
No one is denying the movie show people seeing Superman as semi-divine. The issue is that the movie fails at presenting Superman as being a heroic individual.

why do you faggots have to project and add meaning to make something fit to your reality..

You remember the events of BvS? Imagine that happening to a middle schooler Clarke. Thats what Pa wanted to avoid.

But Superman can move faster than flash and could have grabbed Pa Kent before anyone noticed. He already pushed a school bus out of the water and no government shit happened, so he easily could have saved him with no problems.

Pa knew that a billionaire nutjob would create a cave troll to kill Superman because of a bad case of poorly thought out misotheism?

Snyder specializes in showing, not telling. That's why brainlets like you and the metric assloads of worthless "critics" you get you opinions from can't follow his themes.

Go listen to Kermode gush about "mother!" some more.

that scene made me laugh.

>Like Hulk saying he's always angry
That's literally how his solo movie ended.

This is the shittiest thread of the year. And it reveals it was DCucks shitposting about Black Panther failing and shit. DCucks never went anywhere. They are still on this board shit posting as usual. So now that Black Panthet is a known success we go back to these pathetic Marvel vs Capcom tier threads that DCfags love to make.

You Snyderhomos are the cancer of this board.

Is that why he committed suicide by tornado when Clark was an adult?

He could have. You are correct. But did he follow his gut or obey his father? Hint: only one of those guys is ready to be Superman.

>bvs
>optimism
Not to mention that your pic-related is facebook-tier attempts at pottery

>Snyder specializes in showing, not telling
You think that briefing seeing a bunch of paper clips is showing, not telling? Do you have any understand of what action means in a narrative? Also, who the fuck is Kermode?

Replace top pic with "I just think he's kinda hot" and you have thematically similar scenes to compare.

What, twelve Black Panther threads weren't enough to keep you happy? What a fucking child you are.

Objectivism vs marvel's ironic reddit nihilism

If all K was galking about was the clippings, yiu'd have a point. I wasn't. I was talking about the fact that the iconography the three principle characters have associated with them indjcates what the public at large thinks of them. The sharpness of the imagery indicates exactly how prominently they feature in the public psyche.

That translates to Superman bei g associated with a savior/sun/light god even at the height of the controversy. That's what mankind at large thinks of him, and that's what the imagery reflects. That's showing, not telling, and that's why you and all these dipshit critics don't have opinions worth one wet shit to me.

The imagery and ideas should be bound the the character actions in the context of the narrative. When you rely on people worshiping superman because of events(ie Superman's Heroics) that happened outside of the narrative, it fails.

100% truth

marvel just keeping doing thing and making enjoyable movies

dcfags are just assblasted and taking out their frustration on marvel instead of rightfully being pissed at WB for being idiots

god damn that dude is pure CHAD, chiseled from granite

no... h..o.mo

The good guys lost when the masses give a voice to the wicked for the sake of freedom and with their snake tongues sweetened the poison they pumping into society while calling the good guys bigots.

The good guys lost cuz they were too noble for this world.

That fucking sequence its pottery, the weight of the world on his shoulders no one to help and he musters the strenght to rise up to the challenge because he knows people are counting on him.

If that's not a fucking heroe I don't know what could count as one.

>A touching last kiss before a potentially life-ending confrontation with Zod.
You may have had a point there, but Superman was kissing Lois well before Zod clambered back out of the rubble. The kiss wasn't presented as a bit of last-minute sentimentality, but as a reward for defeating the world engine, which comes off as incredibly tone-deaf in the rubble of the city.

> You hate BvS, you must love Disney.

Both are shit, this isn't even some lmao radical centrism by hating both i am superior shit.

They're just both bad. One because it's just the same bland disney shit every movie, the other because a gritty completely alien 'real world' interpretation interspersed with like a grand total of 2 minutes of references to baroque artworks across 3 films does not instantly make a good film series or itself artistic.