Okay so after hearing razorfist screaming about how anime ripped off french comic books for the fiftieth time, I decided to give frog comics a try.
Each time I tried I regretted it. If it's not tintin or bumbar or asterisk and obelisk, its an excuse of stye over substance. Basically "oh wow, some armadillo aliens landed in a planet. They just bumped into a hole. The end".
Any advice on where to start with frog comics?
>Any advice on where to start with frog comics?
Cred Forums and that self-loathing cripple's chan.
>puns
fuck off britbong
Can you go into detail about franco-belgian comics you've already?
This thread had my interest, i myself gonna start with the smurfs.
Just to start you off:
Thorgal
Donjon
Blacksad
(the old) Spike & Suzy comics (the new ones are trash)
Blake and Mortimer
etc...
>style over substance
What's the problem with that? Just learn how to appreciate form, don't be a meaning slave your whole life.
>Style over substance
I sure hope you aren't reading any cape comics then, because they have an actual industry style they insist on being applied consistently to all of their products.
I had a list of recommended French comics but I can't find it right now.
Blacksad it's pretty good. At least the first 3 volumes.
Style is substance.
Remember Liefeld? Dude got a job because kids dug his style. He never was good at making comics, but that didn't matter to the industry at all.
This. We all know story is king with comics, and that a good story can carry bad art better than good art can carry bad storytelling, but sometimes, you gotta remember that comics are a marriage of story and ART. Because of how fast we read through comics, we never stop and look at each panel as what it is: a work of art. Each panel takes a long time, and a page has around 6-9 of them. It's a significant amount of work, especially if you're doing a 40+ page story.
So do yourself a favor sometimes and just appreciate the beauty of a drawing like you would an illustration.
I'll share those that I have saved
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This reeks of someone who really wants some sort of serialized continuous story and doesn't want something like a beautiful small narrative.
Franco-belgian stuff mostly fits smaller narratives. But hey, try The Incal. If you are unable to like even that, I fear for your tastes.
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*slap*
ouch!
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I'd say European comics are a lot like Japanese comics in that there are a bunch of different popular ones and they all have different styles
Try Kairos
youtube.com
It's sadly not a cartoon
There's also Seuls and Blacksad, which are both pretty popular and well known on Cred Forums
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>Seuls
pic related is Seuls, also known as Alone in english translations
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pic related is Blacksad
Not as furbait as it might seem
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Try Melusine for QT witches and cheesy gags but don't expect anything more
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You didn't say what type of stuff you like or don't like, but
Spirou & Fantasio
Gaston Lagaffe, whatever his translated name is
Lucky Luke, though not sure if it's frog
Blueberry
Melusine
Dungeon / Donjon
The Bluecoats
Miss Don't Touch Me
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kino ending
Just abandon the idea of having serialized stories, that's just not at all how things worked with franco-belgian comics. The golden and silver age (from the 40s to the mid 70s) it was really all about short, self-contained stories which can be something of a surprise for foreign readers, especially if you are used to manga or american comics with hundred of volumes, splitting storylines, stuff like that.
The standard for french, belgian and italian comics is a self contained story in 40 to 60 pages.
There have been a lot of exceptions since the 70s of course but that's still the most common format.
As for recs
>I want longer stories, the way I'm used to them
Thorgal (some viking dude finds out weird stuff about gods and aliens and massive shenanigans happen. Gets married and has kids in the process. Is separated in several arcs, but the overall story has been going on since the 80s)
Buddy Longway (the entire life of a frontieersman from adventurous youth to settling and founding a family, ended not so long ago after at least 30 years if I'm not mistaken)
XIII / 13 (a man finds himself alone on the beach with a tatoo that reads 13, and no memory of his past life whatsoever. the amount of shenanigans that ensue is beyone measure and makes for a great thriller. Oh and they made a movie from it but everyone seems to have forgotten it even happened. How fitting)
Lanfeust de Troy + Sillage (two series I never had any interest in whatsoever but they were massively successful and pretty much kept comic books alive in the early 2000s so I guess they must have done some things right?)
>I want some trippy shit, gimme some trippy shit with weird art and stuff I'll need to read through several times
The saga of Lone Sloane (really weird sci-fi series about some massive intergalactic renegade. The stories don't make much sense when there is no writer at the help which was only the case for Delirius, the narration is fucking weird but everything illustrated by Druillet is worth reading for the batshit-insane art alone, pic related)
Cities of the fantastic / les cités obscures (really weird series of small stories that may or may not really be tied together. They all work as small stories, as allegories, as building a larger world, or as a commentary on the medium itself. Oh and the art that takes its clue from architacture styles is amazing too)
Requiem, vampire knight (really feels like some "crazy anime" do with all the mixing of cliches and images resulting in stuff like nazi vampires from hell and genocidal templars. If you have been on /tg/ then you have seen some pages of it)
>my life is boring and I want a laugh, give me something fun
Gaston Lagaffe (arguably one of the most famous gag series, and for good reasons)
Les Idées Noires (made by the same guy who wrote Gaston, when he was feeling blue and had an opportunity to write outside of his usual magazine that had strict rules about inoffensive content. In his own words : "Gaston dragged through the soot")
Les Bidochons (King of the Hill in France, sort of. Avoid the later volumes as the series got tired after a while...)
Les Dingodossiers (René Goscinny gets free range do write whetever the fuck he wants and gets Gotlieb to draw it. Really good and a great example of the "liberation" of the media in the late 60s and early 70s when the old formats and conventions were being played with and ultimately broken)
>Well there the Jodoverse comics that Alejandro Jodorowsky made after his dune movie didn't get made Like Incal and Metabarons.
>Thorgal
>Blacksad
>Elric the ruby throne and strombringer even though the white wolf hasn't gotten a English release date yet
>Valerian and Laureline
>Lieutenant Blueberry
>Also a few short stories that moebius wrote/drew like Arzach or the Long Tomorrow.
Ive read some moebius stuff and, for as good as they are, they've left me wanting.
Ive read tintin and I liked it but its a bit formulaic and id like to cut my teeth on.some meatier stuff. Besides that, ive been spoiled in the old scroofe mcduck comics and those hold far more charm and humor then bumbar or asterisk to me.
Its not that I don't like style not appreciate the form, I just want to see what kind of stories they have to tell. I like visiting a world and just being swept away bit I would like to hear what that world is going through is all.
I know they have them. Just wanna see them.
Thanks.
>Its not that I don't like style not appreciate the form, I just want to see what kind of stories they have to tell. I like visiting a world and just being swept away bit I would like to hear what that world is going through is all.
Probably Donjon then.
There's also Companions at Dusk and Alim the Tanner. Those should scratch that itch.
Wake/Sillage. Wears it's Star Trek-iness on it's sleeve but it's a solid sci-fi adventure serial without the abstract surreal tone of guys like Jodo or Bilal if that's not your thing.
Okko
>Edo-period japanese fantasy adventure
Freaks' Squeele
>College students with supernatural powers getting into crazy/perverted antics. Think Animal House if it took place in the X-Men universe
La Colere De Fantomas
>three-part Art Nouveau-era crime thriller, Fantomas is an infamous character in French pop culture seen as one of the precursors to the archetypal comic book supervillain
Quest of the Time Bird
>Widely-acclaimed high fantasy adventure
any of Tardi's WWI books
>Fantômas
Patrician rec.
Wake is always a good recommendation
Depends of what you want :
Everything from Philippe Druillet is worth reading. He's my personal favorite.
> I want trippy SF with breathtaking visuals
Lone Sloane (except Salammbo)
> I want Game of Thrones mixed with persian/african fantasy
Salammbo
> I want hyper-depressive trippy biker fight-&-drugs in a dying world
La Nuit (The Night)
> I want the story of some random guy in a wacky fantasy universe
Vuzz
> I want an incredibly well-drawn fantasy lovedrama, including the biggest chad in the entre universe
Yragael et la fin des temps (Yragael and the end of times)
If you're not fond of Druillet's style, I can advise you:
- Anything written by Jodorowsky (L'Incal, la Caste des Métas-Barons)
- Works from Bastien Vivès (Elles, Une sœur, Polina)
- Gaston Lagaffe
- Lanfeust de Troy
- Requiem: Chevalier Vampire
There is many more. As you can guess, I only listed my favorites. If you want more, just ask. I'm always eager to help those who seek french comics :) (unless you search something not SF related, then i'll be half-screwed)
>Ive read tintin and I liked it but its a bit formulaic
Tintin was pretty left-field for me when I first read it. I've been spoiled on the charm, humour, and most distinctly, craftsmanship, of Peanuts and such. So I was unsure about whether I would like it. It unexpectedly turned out that I really loved it, was pretty fresh.
>Hyper-depressive Druillet
Add Nosferatu to the list.
That thing is so weird, I'm not sure if it's fun or grim as all fuck.
I just started picking up those three-in-one hardcover TinTin volumes. No idea why I've never bothered to check it out until now, it's really cute.
Is it worth tracking down Soviet and Congo? From what I've heard those two stories are kinda rough, and aren't part of this rerelease anyway.
Soviets is pretty clunky and very political. Dunno if you can read french but it has been reedited massively just last year so now it's quite easy to find.
Congo actually has a neat story. And it's not particularly hard to find for what I know, it's been reprinted quite a lot.
Dupont best girl
Dupond worst girl
This is a cold, hard fact. Fite me, cunts
>Blacksad
>French
Les Legendaires
Maliki
Great book
Blueberry is hands down the best Western strip ever
Pinocchio by Winshluss
I remember seeing one album of that getting a storytime here but nothing else.
Do you start someone brand new with the classics? or do you recommend newer popular stuff to get them interested?
For the second route I'd say something like Lastman - Bastien vives
Brand New
What are you trying to communicate? Are you saying you are brand new?
I am not a shitty band.
Never heard of them. Guess they must be really shitty.
>Bastien vives
He can't keep getting away with it.
He can and he will. The man is living the dream and it is amazing to watch.
Is this anywhere yet?
>Is this anywhere yet?
Oh, his new book? Yes, it's out physically. No, no scans yet. That'll be another 5, 6 months tops. Hey, that's just how the frogs roll.
Roll on froggy
Is this a meme?
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What's this?
Dad is pretty good.
What's this about?
Salammbo:
>Salammbô (1862) is a historical novel by Gustave Flaubert.[1] It is set in Carthage during the 3rd century BC,[1] immediately before and during the Mercenary Revolt which took place shortly after the First Punic War. Flaubert's main source was Book I of Polybius's Histories. The novel kickstarted a renewed interest in the history of the pre-Imperial Rome's conflict with the North African Phoenician colony of Carthage.
>After the First Punic War, Carthage is unable to fulfill promises made to its army of mercenaries, and finds itself under attack. The fictional title character, a priestess and the daughter of Hamilcar Barca, the foremost Carthaginian general, is the object of the obsessive lust of Matho, a leader of the mercenaries. With the help of the scheming freed slave, Spendius, Matho steals the sacred veil of Carthage, the Zaïmph, prompting Salammbô to enter the mercenaries' camp in an attempt to steal it back. The Zaïmph is an ornate bejewelled veil draped about the statue of the goddess Tanit in the sanctum sanctorum of her temple: the veil is the city's guardian and touching it will bring death to the perpetrator.
except this time, it's drawn by Druillet.
He already has stopped, kinda. My bet would be that his editor sat him down and had "the talk". That's what being nominated at Angoulême every year for five years will do to a man.
I'll still be mad until he starts crediting his writers though
Oh and Lone Sloane is in it for some reasons.
ouchi!
Only read Asterix and Obelix, if it was written by Goscinny. He was taken from us too soon.
I also recommend Spirou and Fantasio. It's kinda low key compared to Asterix, Tintin and Lucky Luke, but it certainly deserves more attention. Grand Budapest Hotel could be considered a spiritual sequel to this.
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I don't see any evidence that he's stopped? It seems to me like he's increasing that kind of content. Unless you are picking up on something to the contrary?
And what do you mean about uncredited writers? Not doubting you but I have no context on that.
>no one cares about the Czechs and Slovaks, who were sold like the Kurds today.
Very charming
Those two guys look like Asterix and Obelix.
Not so much the content but the attitude.
If you go read interviews in small zines arround the time Polina was published, all he said was "I don't care about stories, I just draw girls so I can fap to them later lol so I drew some ballerinas and it was hot for a moment but then I moved on to girls with bigger boobs cuz that's better"
Contrast that to his rounds of interviews for Une Soeur and he sounds like he's trying hard to be a hybrid of Benoît Peeters and Posy Simmonds and it's just sad.
I'd say that he can do actual erotic stuff because he has a good enough reputation to get away with it and pass it off as "experiments", "personnal expression" or "criticism on the medium" rather than just wanting to have fun. Good for him really.
As for uncredited staff, there's quite a bit of rumor again going back to his earlier years due to the massive shift in productivity and quality of writing from his 4-panels gags he posted online (most of which were copy-pasted four times with different speech bubbles) and his longer graphic novels. Especially when at the time all he had to say about them was that if he couldn't wank to the character he'd lose interest and just stop. Considering the amount of stuff he published that's over 100 pages, there's a bit of inconsistence, hence some rumors about uncredited writers or illustrators to help him get started and do something instad of just being a lazy wanker. It's hard to tell whether he was just being a dick in interviews or if he was being honest.
But whether that's true or not, it's good to see that he's reached the point where he can do whatever the fuck he wants an my dick is thankful because his love for breasts really shines through his art
Spirou is great but kinda all over the place with all the writers it had over the time.
>pre-war Spirou
Worth a read for the historical exoticism alone.
Holds up surprisingly well compared to very early Tintin.
>Franquin
Has a slow start but moves on to be some of the best silver-era stuff. Establishes all of the important elements of the world as well as characters like Gaston, the Marsupilami, Zorglub (GOAT villain) and the count of Champignac. Must-read if you are at all interested in froggie and waffle comics
>Fournier
Big modernization of the series. Starts to tackle contemporary issues and does it quite well.
>Tome & Janry
That's when things start to be a bit wonky. There are some really solid stories in there (the continuation on Zorglub, Cyanure...) but also some pretty gimmicky comedy and lame attempts at being political. The Machine that Dreamed, last album the duo did, was incredible and a last attempt at modernizing the series again, but it didn't really find its readership at time of release, sadly.
>Morvan & Munuera
Kind of a step back from the pretty weird and conceptual stories of the late Tome & Janry era, went back to simpler stories. Started to silp in influences from manga in the pacing resulting in more action. Didn't work very well.
Didn't check the most recent stories by Yoann & Vehlmann though
Yoann and Vehlmann's run had been pretty good so far. Certainly much better than Morvan and Munuera's abysmal turn.
Franquin > Tome & Janry > Yoann & Vehlmann > Fournier > Nic & Cauvin > Morvan & Munuera
>Franquin
My favourite run as well.
Too bad he didn't like them that much, since it they weren't his own creation, but thankfully he was professional about it.
This is good though a bit formulaic once you've read more than four stories of it
I think I remember this? doesnt spirou think whatshisface is a german spy at first or someshit?
I mostly remember their norwegian names.
Yoann & Vehlmann have been very meta, Spirou is a 70 year old comic book character inside and outside the comic.
They also give him great panicky/freaking out faces.
Fantasio
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Nobody gives a shit. Most people working on children's comics have released porn as well and people who started their careers with series that were chokefull of torture, rape, racism, cannibalism and general violence have drawn children's comics as well.
Characters and settings from older volumes crop up with increasing regularity as well.
This is the prelude to some seriously heterosexual gay porn with that German Shepherd police chief.
I've only read the 20-page preview that's online, but I loved it and totally want to read the whole story sometime
Funny! I know just enough French to understand this one. I'll translate it a bit:
Later...
Well, did you find it?
Yeah, but... it was occupied!..
>seriously heterosexual gay porn
Does anyone know more good adventure comics in the vein of Valhardi or Ric Hochet? You know the type, brave and capable protagonist, fast cars, shoot outs, mysteries to solve.
Gil Jourdan (which is getting a full reedition in some pretty tasty-looking bound volumes. Pretty classic adventure formula, but hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Also check Tif & Tondu by the same guy)
Jonathan (the first five volumes are great, though it's more of a weird adventure with mysteries rather than an action-packed thing)
Les Casseurs/Al Russell & Brock (think late 70s cheesy buddy-cop movie in comic book form. Loads of murrican car chases and stuff like that)
Archie Cash (a Charles Bronson-lookalike keeping law and order in South America, shooting rotten officials in the fucking face and pushing voodoo cultists in crocodile pits, all of that in the usually family-friendly Spirou Magazine back in the days)
Some of these look really good, thanks. Would you recommend Buck Danny and Dan Cooper? They look a similar in premise.
>Buck Danny&Dan Cooper
>Not Les Innomables
It's like you hate fun. Though admittedly, I got no reason how they ever managed to get to the Hongkong arc without being axed. First book is just not good in comparison to the rest.
I vaguely remember reading Buck Danny when I was really young and it was full of neat plane dogfights and stuff like that. Haven't read it since I was 7 (and the plot points flew right over my head) though so I wouldn't know.
Another rec if you can find it would be Jess Long. A lot of it is shorter, with 10-30 pages crime and mystery stories rather than 45 but it got quite weird with some of the plots, and the art is great. Les Masques de Mort got me durably spooked when I was little.
Not sure if the two are really comparable.
Like, Buck Danny is a 40s war comic turned adventure in the late 50s when war stories got a bit outfashioned, Les Innomables is some 80s weirdness and at that point everything was fair-game because Pilote had happened in the meantime.
Did anyone translate Universal War Two yet? I think I saw the first one here once but nothing else.
>Les Innomables
First time I'm even seeing this name. Maybe I do hate fun, but after googling it doesn't look like it fits my tastes. I'm more into classic clear line Herge style adventure and more realistic looking franco-belgian crime/drama/adventure/noir.
Jess Long looks amazing, thanks!
Inspector Canadro > Blacksad
>no tail
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Kairos looks amazing but i find it very angry story. Especially the characters and how they act.
That's it!
In norway he's called "Kvikk" (Quick)
It is nearly off puttingly angry, like the main character has no other emotions. Like a tiny dragon hulk.
>trying to find the Marsupilami in an abandonned Zorglub jungle base
SOLD
>I drew some ballerinas and it was hot for a moment but then I moved on to girls with bigger boobs cuz that's better"
I don't see anything wrong with this statement?
I think it's reasonable to present a different side of yourself for different media audiences. It only bad once you start denigrating one audience or the other. I think vives isn't just a one note creator. He likes doing both erotic work and "critical" work and has learned you can't sound like an adolescent perv when you're doing the media rounds for your lit-focused or more family friendly BDs.
On the topic of ghostwriters, who knows. I enjoy his work for the most part, so honestly I don't really care as long as the content is good. It's not like he has a ghost artist. That would be a problem.
>Okay so after hearing razorfist screaming about how anime ripped off french comic books for the fiftieth time, I decided to give frog comics a try.
>Watching Razorfist
>Taking any of his opinions seriously
Besides the fact that Daniel Harris is an edgelord who conveniently misconstrue facts to suit his narrative, I never seen much of a connection between Japanese and French comics, aside from the fact that 80's-era Japan really dug Blade Runner.
>written in french
>published by a french publisher
don't be such a pedant, user.
It's good eurocomics, the rest doesn't really matter.
>The Eternaut
>European
I'm sorry, what the fuck is this bullshit?
YEah, That looks like a fuck up
argies qualify
>don't be a meaning slave your whole life.
Reminder that Foucault was a lazy cunt who came up with subjective reality to justify spending WWII sitting on his arse outside a Parisian cafe while better men were fighting and dying for his right to tear apart their civilisation with his pontificating fart-sniffing.
Well if it's in a virgin/chad image, it must be true.
Be careful with Corto Maltese, make sure you're picking up the old Pratt books and not the shitty modern revival.
explain?
I know Miyazaki's been influenced by Moebius, here's a quote:
"Through Arzach, which dates from 1975, I believe. I only read it in 1980, and it was a big shock. Not only for me. All manga authors were shaken by this work. Unfortunately, when I discovered it, I already had a consolidated style so I couldn't use its influence to enrich my drawing. Even today, I think it has an awesome sense of space. I directed Nausicaä under Mœbius's influence."
And I also read how Akira was influenced by the Métal Hurlant magazine and a Bilal/Dionnet story in particular:
"The same thing with [Katsuhiro] Otomo, where they said “he is a TV guy” and after I said “I did Métal Hurlant” he said, “You did Exterminator 17?!” Suddenly excited, he said, “That’s where Akira comes from,” showing me a 17 on a tomb in the story. From a very small opening he saw the premises of a nihilist opera."
I've read Exterminator 17 and it wouldn't be the first thing I'd recommend to someone new to French comics or Bilal. But I enjoyed it.
Those seem more like influences than straight-up plagiarism, as Razorcuck tends to allude to. In other words: nothing new under the sun.
Hugo Pratt is the creator of Corto Maltese, he died in 1995. All of his Corto books are masterpieces, some of the best comics I've ever read.
In 2015 the writer of Blacksad wrote a new Corto Maltese book (pic related), and it's fucking shit.
So if you're looking to get into Corto Maltese, pick one of the books written between the 1970's and 1990's written and drawn by Hugo Pratt.
Wat? there's new corto? How is that legal?
I'm pretty sure The Night from Druillet was also an inspiration for Akira.
You should check on the Nausicaa manga. It may be the most heavily french inspired work from Miyazaki.
Depending on the contracts between writers and publishers, the series may or may not be continued. That's why Lucky Luke, Blake and Mortimer or Spirou are still going to this day despite their original creators all being dead while Tintin isn't.
Well sure, but I meant "legal" in the sense of it being "kosher" or acceptable for someone else to continue corto.
In that case it pretty much isn't. It's been panned by quite a few people and I've yet to meet someone who had good things to say other than "eh, it's interesting to see someone else try to reproduce it but it doesn't really work"
Kinda like what happened when Uderzo kept Asterix going by himself. Never forget.
Slightly different, but yeah that was also a travesty
Huh?