Is he right?

Huh.

Just because someone had a job doesn't mean they're wise. It's more like bad practice than "animation philosophy".

Yes. Now stop bitching and go watch some The Sameface House.

Changing styles dramatically works best if it's:

>Consistent (Space Dandy, which stays the "change art" for the entirety of an episode)
>One-offs (Comic books that change artists across stories)

OK is sometimes on-model and sometimes drawn weird within seconds of each other. I'd prefer it if it was like the shorts where every episode is slightly different, rather than every shot is different.

Hey Ian, nice to see you browse Cred Forums

...

I mean I get where he's coming from, and Ian's a cool dude, but you gotta draw the line somewhere.

On model
Is this on model charlie brown or on model athf?

Models don't even exist in OK KO

This

I want to say I drew that but I honestly can't remember

...

its only a matter of tie before this becomes his cannon design

Hmm to an extent.

Obviously for cartoony shows, the design of a character can allowed to change greatly for a scene/gag

However, characters can be recognizable to an absurd degree even if you remove or modify many parts of their design.

Stuff like the "Sanic" pic or even OP's pic are still recognizable but if they were to be in a show and not being used deliberately for a quick gag I dont think anyone would argue it would be good considering how far it strays from the initial design of the character.

I get what Ian and Kent mean by the quote.but its vagueness and broadness leads to unfortunate implications that may or may not be true about their work ethic.

fucking psycho jenny up in here

It's a great mindset when used by Competent Intelligent animators. I believe the quote originated on the AOSTH Robotnik model sheet, and that show did it right. Recent good examples of it would mostly be anime series, such as Kill la Kill.

Steven Universe and OK KO are both dreadful examples of it. In SU it has resulted in bizarre inconsistent height warping(compare with Kill La Kill, where the only character with fluctuating height was Gamagoori, this device being used as an intentional gag where he would always appear huge in every scene, but he would never appear smaller than he should be). In OK KO it's both overused, and used poorly, and just results in the show being difficult to watch.

Was pic related foreshadowing all along?

If Dobson agrees with you its probably not right.

I'll be damned if I let you use that kind of fallacy here user, Dobson is shit but you can't use him to fuel your own agenda.

I'll be damned if I care about what you think when you start a thread with a tweet, asking "is he right?"

Dobson doesnt know shit about su,he attributed the height and model inconsistency to the Korean animation studios,when in reality it's a matter of the show runners not being strict enough with there boarders,and allowing it to happen.

How does he know they arent just standing on a box?

KLK was shit though.

I really can't understand why he keeps making big """statement""" tweets like these when they always ALWAYS blow up in his face because of how fucking detached he is from common sense.

Second Era gems aren't as naturally stable as First Era gems. Peridot's limb enhancers were what allowed her to keep a consistent form and without them a horrible autistic cancer is wreaking havoc on her body and mind, causing her to slowly degenerate. Left unchecked, the gems will eventually be forced to take her out behind the temple and put her down.

I littererly would not know they are the same character.

What a retard. They're standing on a box/step or something.

kek

it feels like the second picture is a parody

Yeah, sure. I'm not an artist, but as long as Peridot doesn't look like a steaming pile of shit, I'm good.

but she does, even when she is 'on model", so I don't really give a shit about her either way.

Because strawmanning and arguing against people who call him out is literally his only form of socializing. He did a comic about how being "off-model" is just something that should be normal or some stupid shit like that.

user, there was a greentext of Peridot's steady degenerative decline, until she was just a tiny head that could only spout memes before disintegrating into nothing. Please tell me you have it.

Honestly they probably should have had more variety of doctor race wise.

Characters changing height in shots where their feet are cut off are normal. It's so you don't have weird compositions and because you can't see the ground, you're able to cheat it a bit and get away with it without being noticable. This is very common practice when it comes to staging, no different than forced perspective.

It's when you see the character in full and they change FROM SHOT TO SHOT OF ONE ANOTHER that it's a problem.

you shut your whore mouth.

Reminds me of pic related.

What is this

Reminder about this comic

That must be because the actual comic shops were being too toxic to shop at.

I should re-edit that to say 25 percent actually because that's more what it looks like now that I'm looking at it

Honestly, considering this is Dobson, I'm less inclined to believe that this was deliberate and more that he's a fucking moron

I wish Dobson would fuck off for once.

You know it's true. It was obnoxious and annoying. Only "ironic" weebs like it.

Not really, that's like saying only ironic weebs liked TTGL.

>pale nerd in dark room hisses at light

what a hot, fresh joke

whether you like the show or not does change the fact that it does off model well

That can't be fucking real.

i can forsee the "on model" thing bleeding right into copyright protection and stuff.

I mean while we are on the subject, are artists allowed to claim work as their own if they modify an existing character?

"On model" controversy really only matter in terms of intellectual property and trade mark.
SO either any and all character models based off of steven universe could get a DMCA
or none of them do becuase the creator can't be arsed to really "stay on model"

i really want to see this. if nobody has it, maybe its easily findable in the archive?

Cartoons can look different, quit making threads about this autism

Not even the same comparison. These are three different styles by different production crews who stayed consistent with their art changes. This isn't the same character in a 5-minute shot back-to-back.

this is like comparing ninja turtles cartoons over the years, you're trying to hard

Why do people who don't understand what being off model is feel the need to chime in?

>a classic cartoon character changes look over the course of 7-10 years, all hand drawn
>a modern cartoon character can barely maintain the same look over the course of a scene, computer drawn

what the fuck is wrong with modern animators.

>Convention caused by medium limitations is the same as people just being lazy
Comparing apples to oranges, you big blue dumbass

this scene right here is how you do off model RIGHT.

it conveys incredibly the immense presence and power Satsuki has over Ryuko in this instance. Showing the sheer gap in power she has currently.

...

Does she even have the same fucking hairstyle in those pictures.

>modern animators.
It's only two shows.

Thanks doc
(I see what you did there)

At one point, Adventure Time was "just one show" and now it's influence is fucking inescapable.

upside down Hulk?

Donatello?

its only going to get worse senpai.

wait a minute... I recognize this on-model reference!

i mean the og 79' series is pretty rough around the edges, but goddamn...

I get that Ian wants his show to look like shitty old low budget cartoons but it sucks that he's teaching a new generation of artists that they don't need to try.

Compare his blase style to King of the Hill's bible.

imgur.com/a/PiJLk

Do animators not do characters sheets anymore and base character heights for scenes on that anymore? I never watched Steven Universe. Explain are they just being lazy or do they not care about constitency?

I remember wanting to get into animation as a kid because it always looked really impressive to me. Now I see a lot of young artists mimicking simplistic art styles and wanting to get into storyboarding because it looks easy.

It's really sad.

>imgur.com/a/PiJLk
thanks for this user i've been looking for this shit all over the place

There is the way things are, and the way things ought to be. He's right about the way things are, but everyone's entitled to their opinion of how things ought to be. Even non-animators.

What's embarrassing is that the pro-SU/pro-off model contingent seems to believe that there is no difference between what is done intentionally and what is the result of low skill or a lack of standards. A show like Unikitty is more exaggerated and goes off model more than SU, but it's always deliberately designed and never comes across as mistakes.

Those who wish to defend Ian's creative decisions can do so all they want, that's perfectly fine. Just don't pretend as if people can't tell the difference. It's insulting.

loved this response twitter.com/trashpurrincess/status/959547916942589952

Steven Universe is a "Board driven" show, in that the storyboard artists are also functionally the writers of the episode. To that end, the animation studio they use is told to follow each storyboard artists particular style, so that their visual signature is noticeable. It's very much "so and so wrote this ep, so it should look like they drew it too"

Comparing a puppet to a drawing, they are literally on seperate planes of existence, what the fuck lmao

>if you can recognize the character then it's on model

Interesting

scribd.com/document/14686737/How-to-Draw-Adventure-Time

Even adventure time had limits

Is this what it's like to not have any pride in your craft?

Oh I agree it will be a slippery slope but the problem is not modern animators. It's 5 years from now animators.

When they want a model sheet they just look at Google images for a picture of the character.

Rebecca Sugar gives too much freedom to let each boarder's style shine through or whatever. If a boarder draws something really shitty (such as consistently massive heads on all characters) they never seem to get critiqued at all. It's just considered part of their style. The characters also don't have canon heights. They supposedly have rules about their heights relative to each other but even that is clearly not followed.

> if you can recognize the character, its 'on model'

"On-Model"

its a lack of standards in not wanting to seem like stifiling creativity. indvidual style is great, but some of the boarders have legit flaws and none are addressed thats the problem here.

So by this logic this:

B^U

Is also on model?

No.
That doesn't mean going off model is bad, or even that the way OK K.O. does it is wrong (most of the time), but it's patently not correct. It dilutes the term on model into simply recognizable.

I'm sure neither of them actually thinks that, it just exaggeration to express their rather free philosophy on character design.

Nice peridot guy

Kek

/\

/ \

BEHOLD, A GEM.

>40 out of 104 is 41.6%
That's fucking retarded.

...

uhh thats basic math.

104 times 0.4 is 41.6

>a nigger's opinion
>worth anything

Yes, you just proved that 40% of 104 is 41.6.
Congratulations.

Are you from USA?

I know right? Nobody should listen to an American.

I dont...what was retarded about what you were complaining about?

40% of 104 is 41.6

but it's 40 comics out of 104, not 40% of comics out of 104

40 comics out of 104 is roughly 38.46%

You're both right, but don't act like all Americans are niggers. Most of us are rednecks.

It says "draw EXPRESSIVE, not well". That shit above is not expressive, end of story. Midgetry isn't a kind of expression.

Only thing stopping them from being good is a decent budget. But being a great animator means you work on the animation DESPITE having only pennies for production, you just want to see your vision complete.

I can't unsee that gay lion's nose as a derpy mouth.

Same but im actually starting to get serious about animation i have to fix this shit from the inside and the only way to do it is to create a good cartoon that goes back to how things used to be wander over yander tried it’s best but it was cancelled before it could leave a bigger impact that could get the industry back on track

>can't even periforce

That Peridot pic's great.

Kay
Thousands of years in Paint

Nice Peridot

>Only thing stopping them from being good is a decent budget.
I think it's just a lack of people with a vision or experience. We're never going to go back to the days of having a studio like TMS animate a TV show, and pretty much the only way to have lively animation is if you do digital puppets. But higher ups seem to only promote people who DON'T challenge production crews.

There aren't that many young John K's, Joe Murray's, or Craig McCracken's who look at what's on TV and go, "I want to do something better. I want to bring back what I used to love as a kid'. So many of them are complacent. Nearly every artist who worked on Regular Show and got a pilot ended up making a short that looked and felt beat-for-beat like fucking Regular Show.

We need more series like Becky Prim getting greenlit and less shit like Summer Camp Island or Apple & Onion. We need a new Invader ZIM, Adventure Time, or Gravity Falls to shake things up. Not neutered versions of them like we have with Ducktales.

Steven Universe was the last recent hold out for something really special to break out in the industry and Sugar just squandered it.

>watching shirobako
>see the hell those key animators go through to get things not just right, but above and beyond what it needs to be to make something great
>see the sleepless nights they go through trying to animate everything painstakingly on a tight deadline, making sure it gets done on time and that the quality is high
>that sheer dedication to the craft and fine details for everything they do, because they didn't just get into that job through nepotism, but because they really wanted to make good animation for a living

Whenever I see SU and OK KO, I don't doubt the storyboarders at CN work more than people give them credit for, but I don't imagine them going through that same process at all since they send all of the animation oversees. I just imagine a bunch of silver spoon californians that got there because their lawyer mommy paid their way into the industry via a nice day care art school, and I imagine them sitting around making a show they're only adequately engaged with while being more focused on making "my funny, unique meme face drawings" and furthering their own careers through office politics than they are about making any of it great.

I think its telling that the only really well animated episode from SU was from a guest japanese animator who's a fan and probably took a huge paycut to work on it out of dedication, and that the most well animated stuff from OK KO were those internet shorts made by studio yotta, a bunch of genuinely hard working talented people who got together from fucking newgrounds, and are delegated to making tie in animation instead of original stuff.

It's genuinely just depressing to think about. The absolute fucking state of western animation.

Because he's a (most likely clinically) narcissistic twat and in his mind people will congratulate him for "bravely speaking the truth"

Wander needed to be a better show first. I liked it but it wasn't anything special, no matter how good the style guide is.

But... Kermit's legs length is consistent.

One of my last hopes was infinity train and even that entire show's premise was summed up in a single adventure time episode.

Why? Why cant an anglo tv show have an anglocentric world view? literally everyone on the planet creates fiction with themselves as central point. The ones that dont are usually trying to make an explicit point about it instead, like the purposefully multi-racial cast of star trek.

Why would the anglos have any obligation to represent other ethnicities? They arent helpless and they can produce their own content just fine, Bollywood is fucking massive, the blacks in the USA have their own industry with full black casts. There's nothing wrong with that.

who is this guy and is he bitching about marvel getting rid of the diversity lineup?

TV animation feels like the place where reject artists go. When I look at movie studio artists, they're people who have been drawing for 10+ years and continue to do warm-ups, sketch from life, and post figure studies just so they never get rusty and keep improving.

Meanwhile, TV artists get butthurt over criticism and deflect everything as, "It's my style, I intended it to be that way".

Between tumblr, calarts and social media conditioning, this generation of artists is fucked anyway. They'll put more effort into telling people why they're not allowed to criticize them than actually improving. It's deviantart 2.0.

all those fucking excuses

I would literally be ashamed if I was a professional in the animation industry and have to keep explain why my work looks like fucking shit

I kinda liked OKKO but this guy is just a fucking shithead

Because all you have to do is tell whites how "good" and "brave" they are for being so thoughtful of others, and they will do whatever it is they think you want. Not to say they actually give a damn about blacks or whatever, just as long as inserting diversity without thinking it through makes them look good.

>yfw the "narcissist with a children's TV show" Zuke was referring to was ian

Love how theyre trying to pretend everything that isn't a bean mouth looks like shit

I remember around the time they posted that some random user posted a bunch of mouth drawings to prove you can do stuff besides bean mouths. Wish I'd saved it.

Modern animation is dead anyway.

...

Even videogame animation is more respectable than tv animation these days.

You can watch Ren & Stimpy for one minute and get a plethora of ideas for different mouth shapes. I have no idea why these artists act like it's a fucking chore.

...

God, I hope this person doesn't become a future showrunner.

How far up your ass does your head need to be to conduct yourself like that?

I think the main problem is they're less a team and more a clique of friends. They don't care if the end product looks shitty, they just don't wanna hurt their storyboarder friends' feelings by telling them to start over and do it right this time. Not an ounce of professionalism. No wonder they respond to criticism of their work like it's a personal attack.

...

...

What if I am in the industry, understand the process, and still disagree with most of what this guy has to say? Does my opinion become "valid"? Do we cancel each other out and equal to zero?

TV animation was able to do very well with even worse circumstances and limited materials and somehow has degraded despite digital mediums making it a cakewalk to do an entire production from your crappy college dorm room.

...

>Pajama Sam games have better, more fluid animation than modern cartoons

Budget? Does he think drawing characters taller costs more?

...

...

So why does Cred Forums shit on TTGO so much when it doesn't fail at basic quality control like this?

consistency objectively take more time, which is money.

what a load of bullshit

they should save their energy to actually work on their show and not to reply to every twitter discourse

why don't they just hire better artists?

Sometimes I wish I went to art school and became an animator but threads like this help me feel better about my current life because at least I don't have to deal with these deranged shithead tumblr things directly as my coworkers.

I don't understand how it's even possible to become this brainwashed. Do they just not watch cartoons other than their own work? Surely they would notice that no good cartoons have characters just randomly change size for no fucking reason?

I noticed that a dip on top of a character's mouth is some sort of new trend now for animators and artists.

Since when is that the only reason you can shit on a show? TTGO has different problems

because its level of quality is so shitasticlly basic its impossible to fuck up.

I'm just saying, TTGO keeps coming up as some kind of bogeyman when you have these people literally bragging about how shitty and lazy they are, as if it were a virtue.

>I'll honestly never understand why people are so upset
>In response to someone who implies they do

>dip on top of a characters mouth

What do you mean exactly?

No, of course he isn't right.

...

Its popular and airs a lot so it's a more popular conversation topic

So you can't tell a storyboarder that a particular board is fucked and he needs to do it again, but he can keep the good drawings or trace over them to repeat them?

They could stop treating their animators like children and tell them to do their job properly. They don't need to shower them in money or turn the studio into a Korean sweatshop for some basic consistency.

The short answer is if you care you do it in 3DCG, only geeks & nerds care about doing new hand drawn animation in this day of age hence why the Animaniacs reboot is being made in 3DCG.

The only reason why shows like Voltron:LD & Lego Elves:SOED are still hand drawn is because their crew finds the anime inspire designs to look tacky in 3DCG but give it time when more gamers show up in the industry and even shows like Voltron:LD will be 100% animated 3DCG too.

Long runners like SpongeBob & The Simpsons will have to switch to 3DCG too if they want to still be airing with new episodes.

Please accept reality, quality hand drawn animation is dead and even the Japanese will switch to 3DCG once the hardware becomes cheap enough.

TLDR; PLEASE MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES! That is all.

>go look at french tv animation
>absolutely fucking none of this calarts shit, kino action shows with good art, comedy shows that are actually funny, unashamed fanservice, japanese co productions all over the place so even weebs have their share of content and everyone is happy
>has been that way since forever, even shitty french cartoons are still aesthetically better than the most highly regarded contemporary american shows

I'm learning french just so I don't have to watch the shows subbed, anyone who says western animation is dead are just burgerphiles who don't know that its alive and well in europe.

good thing I watch the show so high I don't notice any off model shit. also can anyone post the mega all i can find online is season 1-3

So if text was just moving around on screen with a shitty description of the character, it's on model?

Fixed.

god that joke got old and reused so hard
>hahaha doesn't understand simple tasks
except they had the nerve to do it with alien characters because that's even fucking worse

>no pressure for production quality because it's not movies, plus overseas does most of the legwork
>pressure to do things on the cheap
>current showrunners grew up on derivative material instead of classically trained animation
What do you expect, honestly?

They likely received the same treatment. Channels obviously don't care enough to tell them to work on their shit as long as ratings come, and everybody else is so afraid of hurting feelings, creating safespaces, that they say "It's okay no matter you do"

This mink?
It's on model.

you mean flash puppet animation, CG is incredibly unpopular for TV shows

The worst part is that Patrick not using a broom properly wasn't even the best part of the joke. It was the deadpan guy going, "Hey buddy, did you just blow in from stupidtown?".

None of the other shows have that secondary punchline so it's just fucking lame cliche jokes because these people working on these shows think cute shit like a puppy trying to hop into a slipper = comedy.

That's also a thing in Indians

>Only 40%
>Comically low number
How much would have been normal then you fucking retard? 80%?

Which shows would you recommend?

I think you highlighted the real issue, its that they're writing setups with no punchline. The OK KO one is especially bad because the setup is then explained to the viewer as the punchline where the character exclaims that they forgot how to use a broom. Doesn't matter if the context is he's lying, that's technically not a joke. There's no punchline, there's just a direct statement of a visual gag.

I agree if he's referring to stuff like pic related that are exaggerated for effect, but I don't think that's their limit.

...

Rough Draft & SMIP have AC and pay above the South Korean minimum wage.
France is 20 times worse then Canada when it comes to animation, if you want good European animation leach off of Germany as Ireland is too creatively bankrupt to to anything meaningful and to busy blowing Butch Hartman and Genndy Tartakovsky*cough*Cartoon Saloon*cough*, mostly Butch.

>we were just pretending to be shit animators
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Exactly. They seem to think the people criticizing them want everything to be 100% on model all the time, but obviously off model has its uses

That's less than what a Steven universe character varies in design on a single episode and that's over 17 years

No, this as theres a reason why normies don't talk about TLH, TTG & SATFOE.

Normies only do 3DCG and even The Simpsons & SpongeBob will be 3DCG too in the very near future.

How on-model am I? Should I contact Sugar for a job opening?

>behind the temple
Beach City? What like, public execution or something?

I'm not an expert animator/director, but even I know this is fucking dumb. How do they get away with it? Does CN not say anything?

Almost every toddler show is in 3D at this point, 3D is absolutely massive

Nice Peridot. Looks as good as some of the ones in the show

youtube.com/watch?v=v-cpsm7HfN4

>Season 1 Johnny Test unironically has better animation than Steven Universe

And soon everything, even anime.

Anyone got the audio from when Ian Jones Quartey was on the Pizza Party Podcast and got extremely defensive when Nolan tried to criticize off model animation to the point where they had to cut it out of the final upload? Someone clipped it from the stream and uploaded it seperately, but I can't find it anymore.

I mean
I recognize her

Bullshit

mobile.twitter.com/OnAnimate/status/962710319788371968

>traditional animation will become the new stop motion in your lifetime

>TLH, TTG & SATFOE

because they're shows for toddlers dumbass

troll harder

Oh I'm curious about this one. Seconding

If you can recognize the character it´s "on model"

abstract loss?

barney?

No, toddler shows are PAW Patrol and Elena of Avalor, those are just shows.

What is Hawkeye doing on top of Hulk shoulders?

If you're a cartoonist who has even breathed the air in the studio Steven Universe is made then your right to have input on the quality of western animation is revoked.

It's even on their Wiki. I don't have time to rewatch that whole thing but if anyone wants to put it on in the background and post a timestamp here later, thanks in advance.

Yes

thanks doc

...

Found a comment on YouTube describing it

Let him come on one of Hartman's podcast and try that funny shit. Butch the Bruiser would fuck that fat Urkel looking nigga up.

Not necessarily. If you tell yourself it's fine to not be consistent, and indeed even refuse to create an official character height chart for people to reference, people will put out shit work, but if you'd actually expect more consistency they'd probably learn to deliver it as a natural part of the process, without it taking that much extra time.

I get the feeling the current culture sort of admires shitty inconsistent bullshit because it's more "free" or "creative" or somehow more genuine and real because it's so shit and unpolished, or something like that

but that is 100% intentionally crappy.

You're hired!

That's objectively false. That's not what "on model" means. If you don't want to learn to draw then don't become a professional illustrator.

HA

>Artists improve over time

YOUR CHARACTERS ARE LITERALLY MADE OF CIRCLES

YOU'VE BEEN DRAWING FOR 10+ YEARS

YOU'VE HAD TIME SINCE 2014 TO PERFECT DRAWING THIS CHARACTER

WHAT ARE YOU IMPROVING ON

Fuck OFF Famicon, Jesus Christ.

He's talking about Lion's nose lol.

I like Ian, but that is a fucking stupid argument.
Humans tend to recognize people mostly via their faces, so as long as you have a characters head, it can be recognized. With this argument you could have just the characters head, or the head with random stuff added on to it, like the Peridot in the picture, and people would still be able to recognize who the character is meant to be.

Cred Forums here. Just passing by. This thread reminded me why no one reads comics or watches cartoons anymore. The "people" in those industries are literally the worst "people" I have ever seen.

>implying the gaming industry isn't more cancerous

At least our indie people are cool to talk to.

>anime
>good
Kill yourselves you degenerate weebs.

The thing is that there are hundreds to thousands of indie devs making noteworthy games every year. Some are cool, some are fags, but they're there doing their thing and are supported by some of the larger companies if they want to get into a career.

Animation? You're lucky to hear about a single indie animated project a year that's worth a passing glance.

Yes but by the logic of this pic is completly acceptable and "on model"

Yeah, and if a character has some very recognisable clothes or features or a specific color scheme, you can fuck them up pretty badly and they'll still be "recognizable".

Why do this board love talking about dead shows?

Bump because I want to read that

>watched documentary on PBS as a wee lad
>its about wild horses
>they get into all the murder and rape
>watch the stud of the group kick the shit out of a newborn foal on PBS

Merci docteur.

This.

it is acceptable for joke/imaginary sequences

People usually take screenshots where the characters are not in the foreground, which is where most of the sloppy off-model shit happens.

TTGO uses different animation. They have set models and make new ones as needed.

What was the name of the documentary?

I dont remember, it was 15yrs ago but I think I found the clip

youtube.com/watch?v=1blI7fLlS8E

Nolan was probably stunned by how retarded that comparison is and unsure how to proceed attempting to parlay with what just revealed itself as a subhuman entity.

Lastman

Read it in Pearl's voice

Well that's it, stop the word I'm getting off

Why do animators listen to veteran animators like if they were the bible?
And then completely follow their word like law even though the animators are taking the messages way too fucking seriously? Can't they fucking think for themselves or stop thinking that everything is absolute just because someone before them had certain ways of handling things?

Not to mention that being attacked by a "big name" live on stream must be pretty stunning for someone who thinks his future lies in animation.

The problem isn't that they follow that one animator's advice too much. They just use his words as a shield to defend their laziness.

Is this piccollo fucking vegeta

Its embarrassing how they keep mentioning trigger occasionally going off model as an excuse for their lazy storyboarding

no shit they don't have any excuse to have a off model character

>I enjoy the Holocaust because it shows how much passion the Germans put into eliminating the Jews

It feels like we’re on the other end of the john k spectrum.

Man, Cleese is so old now it makes me so depressed.

>this entire fucking thread
Modern animators are a fucking joke. I don't even hate a lot of modern cartoons but this glorification of laziness will mark the death of this industry in a few years.

Can't wait for all the "50 reasons John Cleese was problematic" and "Top 8 women accusing John Cleese of sexual harassment (#7 will surprise you!)" articles when he dies and can't defend himself anymore.

It's just so sad how it went from cute to something that actually hurts to look at

>here is my example, which is an exception and has a specific reason behind its choice
>making it a horrible example but the one I chose
>25% is basically the same as 38% also

The constant off-modelling literally signifies the opposite, that they don't give a shit about the show and the characters.

>BLM
>progress
Tribalism based on race is not progress.

But that's wrong, you fucking retard.

40 out of 104 isn't 41.6%. Fuck's sake, 40/100 is 40%, but somehow you think that's higher, even at a fuckin' glance?

It's 38.4%. You are on a computing device right now, do some basic math.

And no, that is not a 20% pie chart. Dobson is wrong enough without having you suck at correcting him.

Does Dobson ever NOT contradict himself? He's the one who bitches about videogame character designs changing, right?

>change in several years is the same as change between two angles and literally seconds

Nobody wants you here, Dobson.

>he never smiles.

That's not off-model, you fucking mongoloid. That's fucking exaggeration.

Big difference between making a choice and being an incapable artist.

Keep in mind that Butterworth is also responsible for the pilot that nearly got The Simpsons shitcanned for good.
youtube.com/watch?v=xn0RwnvIPdc

Also, wasn't it Milton Knight who said it, not Kent?

>Animators n Boarders work super hard
no. if they don't respect the artstyle they don't work hard, the biggest part of the work is keeping consistency in the art if you don't do it you're taking of a big part of the job just from lazyness

It appears my superiority has caused some controversy.

but that's limiting the artists' creativity don't you know?

Horses are such peaceful, beautiful animals. :)

please no, the man is a treasure

>liking butch hartman and his garbage shows

cringe

>One of Zuke's hidden blog complaints was that she had to work six hours a day

Ian picked a great idol.

>Coming from the guy that's had multiple autistic shit fits about Link changing his hair color
You can definitely tell Link is the same character. What a hypocrite, but that isn't surprising for him.

yo, what's those cartoons?

To be fair the Anarchists had it right, they should have fought harder for the 20 hour work week in the early 20th century rather than the 40 hour work week the socialists wanted.

Go suck your dad's dick you jew.

Looks like it could've been a mercy killing, but not conclusive youtu.be/zvVroGuzRig

Only one I recognize is The Legend of Lucky Pie in the bottom right.

Just like Islam

...
Is that an AMV about horse infanticide?

horse girls are fucking weird

Yes, soothing isn't it?

Even in AoStH's case it's a statement of being unafraid to go off-model as needed, not a catch-all to excuse inconsistency.

I can't stop laughing at this sentence.

>France is 20 times worse then Canada when it comes to animation
>give no example of how it worse
when they produce shit like Persepolis, Kirikou and the sorceress, Asterix or most recently Dofus, Wakfu and Lastman while Canada make Angela Anaconda or Jimmy Two-shoes I wouldn't call France the worse of the two

He's a jolly sarcastic old man. Look for his autobiography, he reads the audiobook.

KLK was great though

That bible was 10 years old by the time that episode came out.
Why did the quality of koth go down after the trip to japan episodes?did mike leave?

Why are you talking like a fucking anime user

Is Nolan /ourguy/

>telling people in the industry where you steal their content from
God dammit
This is why sites keep fucking dying

Persepolis and Kirikou were almost 15 years ago now. The last few Asterix movies were not exactly the best (Vikings was terrible, Domain of the Gods was surprisingly nice and the 3D worked well). Dofus and Wakfu are about 15 years old. LAstman is possibly the only relevent exemple when it comes to the current state of animation I'd say.
But yeah, Canada sucks quite bad.
I unironically liked Angela Anaconda when I was a kid, fite me fgts

O N M O D E L

It works for the Japanese.

>Wakfu
>15 years old
It's almost 10 years old, you're off by five years and some change. The Dofus animed series was even more recent.

>Liked Digimon as a kid
>Mom and Dad surprise me with tickets to Digimon movie
>Fuck yes, Im hype as fuck
>Get to theater
>What do I see before me?
>Faggot fucking Angela Anaconda masquerading as Tai running around being terribly animated
>Mom and Dad look at me
>I tell them I don't know what's going on
>They say they're getting a refund
>Leave theater
>No refund
>No Digimon
>Got in a wreck in the parking lot
>Dad in hospital
>Mom knee crippled
>All because of that fucking bitch Angela Anaconda trying to save her shit show

FUCK YOU

>I reject the ideas of writers I claim to like because they don't mirror my own
Okay die Dobson.

Nah, it shows up on google search once it's popular enough. Then it's a waiting for whenever some corporate lawyer can get around to it.

Helps that nowadays they're hosted in some tiny country.

That's Chabry Brown and Snappy.

You know you've fucked up when you have to ask people not to point out the flaw in your argument.

You're sort of ignoring the big elephant in the room that is the animated film industry.

He has a weird taste in porn.

furaffinity.net/user/everythingunderwraps/

>you try to charb me more dan juan dollar again Hober, and I gib you TWO black eyez.

I hate it when dobson makes an argument for something I agreed with and I end up switching out of pure spite for this idiot and his opinions/presentation. Who the fuck is paying for his basic living expenses?

>"If you can recognize the character it's on model"
youtube.com/watch?v=vCoQBUMV2J8

>progression
>not regression
Lmao

>a cronenburg future

>here is why I'm wrong at the bottom. Let's not discuss it and say I'm right.

Jesus Christ, this guy needs to leave this planet.

It was a 5 minute short before the movie. You deserve it.

Regression implies that it was that way before.

That reminds me: most of the smug fuckers defending their lazy animation also made fun of CG shows like Green Lantern and Beware the Batman.

Glass houses, etc.

A lot of people are going to defend SU to the death because it panders to their tumblr worldview. Those shows had nothing like that going for them.

Gracias Doc.

ON A SCALE OF 1 TO 10
How disappointed are Dobson's parents with him?

...

fuckin lol'd

Might be an accurate comparison of these three designs swapped from shot to shot.

>copy pasted flags
>that projector
>that shadow
I swear Dobson should stop drawing right now it's insulting

i just noticed that the rad in the bottom picture's mouth is shaped like the united states

Remember that time his Jewish gf's family tried to have a lil christmas thing at their house cause they didn't want him to feel left out and Dobbie called it verboten?

How would you react if you were browsing Cred Forums just minding your own bussness and then a blue bear comes out of nowhere and lights a huge spotlight directly at your face, Cred Forums?

...

Lol.

depend, blue (brown) bear or blue (grizzly) bear ? cause I could handle the first one

>Dobson can't draw well so it's okay when animators draw badly too
The absolute state of the Inflatibear

It feels like people who unapologetically defend things like SU to its core do it because they feel they "have to". It's popular, it's made by a woman, it had lesbians, it can do no wrong! Etc.

Tack doktorn

Fuck millenials, I said it. Sorry.

You know if they didn't outright tell the animators to follow the board proportions more closely the show would be more on-model. Hell look at like any other recent show Rough Draft Korea (the weaker of the two studios on SU) worked on; they're a lot more on model and most of the time stick to the default model sheet poses in 3/4ths shots

Explaining why it's shit doesn't make it less shit.

i would argue that the animators know its wrong, but they are forced to stick to the storyboard.

Bottom left doesn't seem problematic, but oh lord, the other shows are just horrible.

>if you can recognize the character, it's 'on model'
merci docteur

Tumblr hates SU now. The fandom has severely diminished, and many that stay are salty fucks who never shut up about how much they hate the show. Get with the times, gramps.

Can you imagine if this shit ideology was used in ANY OTHER field or context?

Why are those support beams on the east wing so much shorter than the rest? The whole thing is tilting, there's immense danger of collapse! Didn't you measure the height?!
>You can't tell me what I'm doing is wrong as long as it's still basically a building.

Hey I ordered a big double patty burger with onion rings, onion and no tomato. This has only one patty, no bottom bun, no onion and it's full of tomato. What gives?
>You can't tell me what I'm doing is wrong as long as it's still basically a burger.

Doctor, you had to deliver the baby according to hospital rules. You learned these at medical school for a reason, and instead you decided to pull the child by the legs, severing its spinal chord. What the hell is wrong with you!
>You can't tell me what I'm doing is wrong as long as it's still basically a baby.

This shit is why more and more kids prefer anime to western animation.

Why would a country that has historically been 99% white, cast a white male as a male character? hmmmmm

they don't care about that. they just care the the "product" is finished on time and that it sells.

Most certainly not a mercy kill. Every other horse is curious and intrigued, the stud did not hesitate to BTFO.

>AKOM
>good
Do I have to bring that Simpsons pilot or a G1 Screencap up again?

Seriously, this and are nothing more than "They gave me an excuse to be shit".

What happened? Are lesbians not hip for sjws?

The English dub for that movie sucked anyways.

they cost more

I'm not disagreeing with your point, but choose a better analogy that doesn't risk health or lives. Entertainment, like figure skating or theatre.

Kids prefer disney over anime, don't kid yourself.

heck SMIP did exactly just that in some of their earliest eps on the show (though while their newest stuff is more in line with the boards, people still tend to think SMIP's eps look nicer)

>theatre
The analogy has already happened, it's called brechtism and everyone ate it up
>I don't have to look credible on stage everyone knows it's an act so I'll put all my effort into breaking the immersion, you can't stop me i'm being creative!

I can make whatever analogy I want as long as it still looks like an analogy.

LA ATROCIDAD

...

Nachos belgrande...

Doesn't have to when it isn't.

indeginio speima

When did the nuts take over the nuthouse?

Thing is, this sort of bending of your own norm is fine if not efficient when you use it as a stylistic tool, to be part of a larger effect.
But in the case of SU it's just here because it's here.

racism isn't funny

...

They finally realized the show titled Esteban Universo actually refers to that fat sidekick guy who hangs around the lesbians. Then s4 gave him most of the spotlight and everyone fucking bailed.

Bitch I will fight you I never saw the jap version never will

I think it had to do with the bismut looking like a gorilla that wanted to kill her enemies and she was poitraited in the wrong, obiously tumblr wanted to kill all all the white cist males so they took it like an attack

At least that's what i think, there might be other things

I feel bad for you then. I'm pretty sure they cut a shitload of scenes out because they spliced three movies into one.

This thread has been more entertaining than cartoons from the last four years.

Also, they cut out fucking BOLERO from the original ost. Atrocious.

>low effort
>poorly colored
>can't stay on model
>poor range of expressions
>errors that could easily have been avoided by quality control

Yep, it's an American cartoon.

Seems more like one of those little insider their head or on their shoulder kind of characters. Like a little weird shaped version that tells them things.

And porn parody at this.

Oh yeah, it's coming back to me now. Parts one and two were largely complete, but I guess part three was a strange one that didn't make a lot of sense in the dub script.

i think the biggest reason why SU gets so much hate for being off-model ironically isn't the off-model art itself, but because it's the result of a much bigger issue
SU is supposed to be a drama. characters go through redemption arcs, get killed, etc. at the same time, however, it's a kids show on cartoon network. it needs to have some episodes that aren't plot-heavy so that kids tuning in can watch without wondering why zim is friendly now
some shows have been able to pull this off moderately well, like gravity falls. SU cannot, for whatever reason. some say it's due to a lack of discipline and strong direction in the crewniverse, and the off-model drawings are a manifestation of that.
SU wants to be a serious drama and a lighthearded kids cartoon, tries to be both, and fails at both fronts

Honestly sounds like a lot of seasonal anime, too.

Oh wow. Did he admit to this on a podcast or something, or did people just find it?

I'm shocked that a black man would want to do things the lazy way. Just shocked.

My problem is that even with weeks and months of animation being put together for a few episodes and then dropping 'SteveBombs' or whatever the animation still goes off model.

I guess that answers the age old question of "are zebra's black with white stripes or white with black stripes"

If I recall correctly, all three movies used the same animation director, Mamoru Hosoda. I could easily be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure they decided to splice to movies because the first two weren't long enough on their own especially the first one and they all had the same art style anyways so it wouldn't look TOO jarring if you spliced them. But still, its atrocious. No bolero no go. The first movie was made with that classical piece in mind and the animation is supposed to sync with it.

Going off-model is justified when it's to empathise something, but it doesn't work if you have no baseline. This is where Steven Universe crew is wrong, alongside with those like John K.

It's animation's version of typing LiKe ThIs

He alluded to his fetish in the podcast a few times but I don't think he ever linked his FA. Here's the definite connection between the accounts.

furaffinity.net/view/24704138/
nolanbartworks.tumblr.com/post/163220553345/sonic-boom-a-sonic-animation-for-class-i-had-to

Bedankt doc.

>People didn't like this much character and cartoonish exaggeration in their exaggerated cartoons

You see what happens when you go the other way? We get he lifeless flash animation nu-Simpsons is.

This, with OK KO isn't nearly as annoying since the show is an action comedy

Corporate jews see his ideals as a valuable cost cutting measure.

I think I see why rhyming zebra lady moved to the woods near horsey town.

The problem isn't Steven Universe being off-model, because it largely isn't. The problem is that it stays on-model, but what "on-model" means fluctuates depending on who's drawing the scene. The various boarders tend to be consistent when it comes to drawing their own scenes.

If they really believed they were doing their job and no one had cut a single corner or were at all lazy in production then they would not need to do this much damage control for each other like this. It's just a weird circlejerk of backing each other's mistakes together.

Usually the creator studio itself is supposed to be the skilled one and the Korean animators are supposed to be the reality of animation costs that don't fully realize your vision because they lack the skill but therefore are cheaper, but we've entered an age where the average nobody Korean is better than the people they are working for.
Don't these people have any damn pride in their work and how does someone with no fundamentals end up working on a tv show, surely there are more qualified animators out there?

Good Lord, how the fuck do these furfags do it?
How the hell can they have fetishes for something as weird and oddly specific as being wrapped up and gagged in a spider web?

As petty as this sounds

>Can't even make a fucking pie chart

Weirdly TTG! understands the differing heights of all the characters. For some reason no two boarders on SU can agree on exactly how tall anyone is in relation to each other.

So because one extreme is bad, the other extreme is better?

Not an issue when the show uses Flash models.

I wish idiots chose a different word to spam to differentiate from proper offmodel usage. SU has definitely used good offmodel animation in many instances, but of course that's not what people are concerned about.

And even in the category of bad offmodel, it can be split into two parts: background wonky designs, and foreground inconsistencies. Foreground inconsistencies are deliberate storboarding flairs that have been practiced since the beginning, with varying quality depending on the artist. Height differences are mildly annoying. Background characters looking like shit can be attributed to laziness/lower time devoted for quality check.

What a bunch of whiny babies. Who cares if its offmodel as long as its entertaining? Only one person has a cartoon in this debate and it ain’t Cred Forums

because Korean workers aren't lazy, if they fail at making good animation it's because of a lack of skill, money or time
western animators for the most part don't care and think of it as a safe job where they can just halfass everything without getting fired

No, but that Simpson pilot episode looked great.

see

Yeah, sure. At Disney Pixar. Nobody but the freshest artists would want to work at the base position at CN. Either they move up in a few years or search for greener pastures.

What bothers me about Steven Universe is that at one point, back in season 1 they clearly cared about the quality of animation and consistency but now it's just a joke.

TTG isn't paper drawn. That have digitally set models and make new ones as needed.

>if you can recognize the character, it's 'on model'

This. No other cartoon besides KO and SU have to constantly defend themselves at these criticisms. Wander Over Yonder went off-model quite a bit and never had to defend its actions because it did it properly.

These people use other existing products to defend their actions like Trigger Studios, but no one is criticizing when Trigger does it. Do they at all take this as a hint that maybe they are apply this techniques incorrectly and should learn from it? No, they just keep throwing random quotes and, "Oh but Bob Clampett did this!" as a shield for their lack of skill.

There hits a point when enough consumers complain about what they're consuming that maybe you should fucking listen and not go, "YOU DON'T WOOORRRK IN THE INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW NOOOOOOTHHHHING!". This isn't a loud minority, SU going off-model is becoming the second biggest criticism of the show across the entire fandom behind hiatus kills the pacing.

>u dont animate which means ur not allowed to voice an opinion that doesnt hurt my feeling xddd
Retards like you should stop being so fallacious in EVERY thread, goddamn.

Fuck, everything should be animated like season 1 South Park then if no one gives a shit about visuals in a VISUAL MEDIUM.

Damn, just make it a radio show. As long as the script is entertaining, that SHOULD be enough, right?

That is true, but I've never known a time when Cred Forums wasn't bitching about something far beyond their reach.

Meh.

>it did it properly.
what is doing off-model properly and how are SU/KO doing it wrong? not trying to say youre wrong, you just seem to know a lot and im curious

It's the best animation in the world and it's the West that is degenerate.

Yet Pan is still the most cringeworthy of the group.

Nope, plenty of people complaining about the shit designs and animation back then.

There has been several noticeably bad scenes in recent seasons, but I don't think the overall quality has dipped.

What really set it apart is line art and poses. You can get away with even choppy animation as long as your poses are dynamic.

I wonder if there are any cherries left to pick on that tree?

Who was killed in SU onscreen? Pearl was poofed which is neglible to gems. NONE of us are at the CN studios to know whether they are being lazy or there’s not a strong direction. So all this postulating about it being laziness is absurd and pointless. Nobody here’s worked with Rebecca Sugar so why make up bullshit to justify your dislike?

>I don't think the overall quality has dipped
You're right, it didn't dip. It sunk.
Also, see this:

then I let you prove that inconsistent size not correlated with any kind of symbolism is made on purpose and not because of laziness

Okay kids, time for some on model Itchy and Scratchy!

youtube.com/watch?v=z2_dhUv_CrI

It's just about movement and timing.

youtube.com/watch?v=uXk_8N5JARk

Hater makes a ton of different expressions in this short clip. We see the character in his on-model state transition into off-model with squishy animation, allowing us to "see" the change so we believe it's still the same character. It will periodically revert back to his on-model state rather than just adding on to the deformity for the full minute until he looks nothing like himself by the end of it.

KO is more forgivable because it's a wacky cartoon, but there are still a lot of points in the show where we just cut to the characters and they look like pic related. We never see Gar do a squash and shrink into a funny way to show us that he feels small when around Carol. It will just randomly change Gar's proportions per shot without allowing us to "see" the cartoony animation that allowed it to happen.

There's no reason to think Japan is going to switch to 3D. Their entire industry is built around 2D animation and manga/light novels/visual novels etc. are built on the same kind of art. 3D is not an inevitability.

It doesn't, and all TV anime is seasonal.

Too many lines.

Whoever drew that shit in the bottom should be fired

Boomhauer was literally shown smiling in the episode just before the Japan special, dummy. And to answer your question, no, I believe it was Greg Daniels who left towards the later seasons.

I bet we could falsely criticize some arbitrary aspect in another popular show ad nauseum and Dobson would jump at the opportunity to virtue signal by opposing the general consensus of Cred Forums.

>Who was killed in SU onscreen?
lars
>why make up bullshit to justify your dislike?
some people dislike the show for its animation quality, which is justification in itself. i get turned off with the show going back and forth between hard drama and sol, which is also enough of a justification.
nobody here is arguing anything as fact, because that would indeed be absurd as youve said. people are wondering if there are any deeper rooted issues that are to blame

comparing s1 and s4 is ridiculous if they're trying to make some argument for lesser quality. There's been a deliberate push for smaller, rounder models for whatever stupid reason. It's a dumb reason and it looks ugly either way, but I would not use that as an argument for inconsistency. They've consistently shifted the style.

I have nothing to say for the Dewey episode. Perhaps it was a different storyboarding artist, since those are two different scenes. One thing I can say is that the shit that comes back from Korea cannot be changed, because that's that. They don't have an inhouse studio, and what they get from their korean studio is more or less the finalized look for the episode. The "relative heights" mantra being pushed is a cost-saving measure, of course. It's lazy for them to have missed this in the storyboarding process, but disregarding the autistic adult fanbase, I don't think anyone else gives a shit.

>woy
too soon
thanks user

>we will never get season 1 quality back
>we will never get comfy season 1 threads back

>redefining a term to suit their needs and avoid any actual effort on their part
Very familiar

visit Cred Forums long enough and you can find all sorts of autists screencapping shitty models from whatever shitty anime that's airing. Japs are lazy fucks, too.

Are we really going to do this?

Pearl was the wonkiest motherfucker throughout early season 1. She still looked weird well into s2 and beyond.

>The SU crew are a bunch of stupid pampered manchildren who don't have discipline and coordination.

What else is new?

>This comment will not be replied.

It's not a result of laziness, it's a result of time limits and/or having to rely on inexperienced staff. Outsourcing to less than stellar crews or having coordination problems can be the causes too.

You're the one comparing late-night anime to western children's cartoons. I'm adjusting the standards and how Cred Forums treats their content.

I don’t have the burden of proof buddy. I have no idea why the style changed but laziness is unlikely

I dunno what to tell you man.
Even considering that it's a furry site, 95% of the rest of it is filled with fetishes far worse and far more bizarre.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T NOTICE THIS SHIT WHILE WATCHING
YOU DON'T
YOU JUST DON'T
THE WAIT IS SO LONG YOU FORGET
YOU DON'T FUCKING REALISE THE DIFFERENCE REEE REEE FUCKING REE FUCK OFF FUCK OFF YOU. CAN'T. EVEN. TELL. UNLESS. YOU. FUCKING. COMPARE. IT.

>claim it's not laziness
>prove it
>uh no
now I'm convinced it's not laziness, thanks

>it's a result of time limits and/or having to rely on inexperienced staff
The best storyboarding artists for SU have been promoted to animation directors. The rest are fairly new or have left CN for other jobs. Western shows are also subject to dates and deadlines.

i really liked how early season 1 looked. it was fitting for a sol show about a magic boy trying to find his place in the world, which also made the cartoony expressions and movements work well

youtube.com/watch?v=6BGbwsS0MCY
neurotic overprotective pearl is best pearl

nip animators would probably commit sudoku before trying to defend any of their subpar work.

>There's no reason to think Japan is going to switch to 3D.
Their entire animation industry is preparing for the switch towards 3D animation as per the Anime Japan 2018 creation panel.

Of course it's not going to be suddenly from one day to another. But the transition is already happening. Among the the methods for achieving that goal is to make the software cheaper and more available, train animators in the use of them and advertise CG productions as that cool thing that Japan is really being good at.
Which everyone of course knows (Japan has tons of talented CG artists and animators making great video games).

Really shitty animation I did in two seconds to try and show what I mean.

im on the same side as you man but please dont falseflag, or at least make it less obvious

...

Haven't read a quality thread in a while but last time I did it was mostly stuff that wasn't the focus of the shot or that was only on screen for a few frames. If you have to cut corners, it makes sense to do it in those cases.

What's your point?

>Their entire animation industry is preparing for the switch towards 3D animation
No it's not and there's no reason why it would be.

14 years old
4
y
e
a
r
s

o
l
d

Then admit it instead of crying about how staying on-model is not important on twitter.

Reminds me of the "wrapped up and delitized, his tongue turned into bologna sausage" guy.

you mean fat tied up pikachu?

Speaking of 14 year olds.

>damn that was good
>welp ill never see him hired anywhere

nah, they'd apologize and promise to work harder. Nobody plans to overwork to death, but some of them do anyway.

Which is the crucial difference here, I suppose. People are mad because the western animators finally acknowledged their complaints and they all sort of deflected the criticism. Though I recall similar outrage way back when with the episode 1 design changes and Yellow Diamond's neck. Both have been silently(?) modified over the years. Steven's change from a waddle-dee to a chibi style was probably due to criticism about his design looking unappealing. Yellow Diamond's neck is no longer rivals a giraffe from her first appearance. They might not admit it, but perhaps all this bitching will get them to place more scrutiny with on-model consistency.

>lars
Oh yeah
>dislike
Fair enough. I don’t like chibi Steven either but I’m not hurl insults towards the crew because I don’t know them. In this theead you’ll plenty of parrots claiming the crew is lazy which is what’s annoying

that japs are mostly shit animators and nobody talks about the trash anime that creeps under everyone's radar.

>you’ll plenty of parrots claiming the crew is lazy
The crew is lazy.

>No it's not and there's no reason why it would be.
Oh, there is one simple reason. It's easier to work with, and then nobody needs to pay for some dumb Filipinos doing inbetweens anymore. This saves up tons of time and money.

To be fair, they could also be incompetent.

You must be new to Steven Universe.

>hurl insults towards the crew
well yes, youre on Cred Forums. regardless of whether you think any insults are deserved or not, theres no need to save face by reserving them so of course people are gonna be a lot more liberal with their insults.
instead of saying "i dislike x because y; i would do z instead" its easier to say "x is bad" while getting across a similar point
just ignore any posts you want to refute on Cred Forums, not because youre afraid of confrontation, but because this is simply not the platform for actual discussion. consider their point, and if you still disagree then so be it

people talk about shit quality anime, but that happens on another board, this board is about cartoons
and it's not because others do it too that it makes it acceptable, so it's not even a valid point

Is that you Kamau?

I don't think that's the point he's trying to get at, user. It's bad when you're as off model as SU just as much as it is to be on model as a Fox sitcom like nu-Simpsons or Family Guy. There's got to be some balance to the madness.

They are the best animators in the world, and "trash" doesn't mean anything anymore since it gets applied to anything anyone doesn't like for any reason. Many people would for example say that Slow Start is trash because they are traumatized by high school girls:
sakugabooru.com/post?tags=slow_start

It may be easier to work with in some respects but it's also harder to work with in other respects, and I don't know of any studio except Toei that outsources to the Philippines. 3D animation is more expensive in general and if the industry wants to save time and money the obvious and easier next step is switching to fully digital tablet animation.

Due to their American art school graduate lifestyle founded on laziness.

it's goddamn hilarious

Same thing with SU. A lot of the screenshots people are posting are out-of-focus shots. CN is generally considered the cheapest of the three networks, so they could hardly give a shit about on-model consistency.

I'm not defending the bad art, which it is very much so. I just want to curb the discussion to something more streamlined and accurate. The artists aren't lazy, they're working constantly and blocked from deadline to deadline. When the final product is shit, it's only fair to just call it bad, shitty art. That's the best they could do within the allotted time and resources provided.

Do you know how fucking poorly animated anime is? It's so jilted and fidgety.

"Out of focus shots"? People are consistently posting screenshots where characters are center focus and change proportions when the camera cuts.

It's the best animation in the world.

Most of it is, but even if there is a high concentration of trash animation coming out of the country the best (and by that I mean highest quality) animated films/tv shows still come from Japan first and then France second.

a puppet is a physical object and always "on model" unless it's' a poorly designed puppet, in which case, you use the puppet that actually looks like the character

Just clarifying: Talking about 2D animation here.

>asserts laziness is the answer even you have no experience in the industry or a personal connection to anyone involved
Come on man.

>le based nippon
cringe

No, he fucking isn't.

That whole episode was amazing but I prefer the original version:
youtube.com/watch?v=nUQIivyvdcI

They are the best whether you like it or not. Maybe when you were in elementary school everyone got a gold star but this is the real world.

going off model wouldn't be so bad if they could at least keep consistency in the same episode

I was gonna throw in the western film industry again, but yeah they've long abandoned 2D as the final product and it kills me. God bless the japs and the french.

I'd very honestly prefer mouth # 1 to beanmouth.

then why don't you go to Cred Forums to talk about the anime you like?

>heh, kid. You need a high iq to realise that anime is the best medium evar

I didn't bring anime into this thread.

Again, it's the best animation in the world. It just is. Nobody cares what you think.

Just wanted to point out the hivemind mentality since one else was. I’ll stay away from Crewniverse is lazy because I say so threads

Because Famicom got banned from Cred Forums again.

If you don't know who famicom is then don't go around accusing people of being him. For reference, this thread is where Famicom actually is right now:

The evidence is what's coming out of all countries that produce animation. I see you ignored the part where I praised France as well.

US is currently at its rock bottom concerning quality 2D animation due to laziness as well as tool assistance that can create cheaply, quickly, and efficiently for a demographic that doesn't care about quality (children) and the general populace seeing it as an immature art form unless it comes from Disney. Animation age ghetto and all that shit.

Oh, you're right. I was thinking of certain Peridot and Lapis models that people post.

Nothing to excuse about the others, other than it's already been noted many many times over and I just wish people would move on already to literally anything that actually makes them happy.

Cred Forums is a dreadful place and people come here to feel smug.

>I just wish people would move on already to literally anything that actually makes them happy.
Why would people stop talking about a problem if the problem keeps persisting and the people responsible gleefully mock criticism about it on social media? It's not like people think about this all day.

Just a reminder that France is 20 times worse then Canada when it comes to animation, if you want good European animation leach off of Germany as Ireland is too creatively bankrupt to to anything meaningful and to busy blowing Butch Hartman and Genndy Tartakovsky*cough*Cartoon Saloon*cough*, mostly Butch.

Cred Forums talks about what's currently airing or shows that pander to horny NEETS. While some of what's currently airing is ok, they generally don't want to discuss older films/series unless you bait it first. Shit they don't even want to discuss animation as a medium unless it's a QUALITY thread.

I haven't seen much in terms of animation from Germany. Got any suggestions?

Anime doesn't pander, it's Westerners who are sex obsessed, and NEETs are a meme and not a target audience.

>they generally don't want to discuss older films/series unless you bait it first
This is a meme too. They discuss older anime all the time and even have a general for pre-2000 anime.

Why should Cred Forums talk about older shows, when there's 50 new shows airing every three months? That's the complete opposite of Cred Forums, where 5 episodes of 5 shows air every three months.

>when there's 50 new shows airing every three months?
and none of them get a second season

He's excusing people for being fucking lazy.

It's the way of the future, Satan. You should enjoy its consequences.

Some actually just did, two or three years later.

Everyone knows Kermit has a bearded manservant to hold him up and fondle his butthole.

Here you go.
Yes it does, otherwise PSG, Kill La Kill and Space Dandy would of never exist.

NEETs are a targeted market, otherwise Korra's ending would of been completely different.

>50 new shows airing every three months
>50
That's generous. Ok. Name the 20 that are airing right now.

its not a nose, its mouth, cant unsee

They get second seasons all the time.

>Yes it does, otherwise PSG, Kill La Kill and Space Dandy would of never exist.
How do those prove that anime panders?

>NEETs are a targeted market, otherwise Korra's ending would of been completely different.
NEETs are a Western meme and Korra is not anime.

>Anime doesn't pander
What, pantieshots, moeshit overload and fanservice are expressions of artistic intent now?

>that movie
You're mistaking quality animation for "wow my nostalgia glasses make my peepee feel good".

BASICALLY, hahaha

>It's not like people think about this all day.
It's all I've been seeing for the past year. I suppose what people want is for the animators to prostrate themselves towards their ever so loyal fans, but how are they going to do that if the majority of criticism comes in the form of memes and insults. They're only going to respond back with "you don't know jack shit" like they've done with past criticism.

>That's objectively false.
this, english is dying

This is all the anime that started this season.

anichart.net/Winter-2018

>Anime doesn't pander
you have a very high opinion of the anime industry. I suppose you only watch shit like My Hero Academia and Dragonball Super.

They treat women as objects and NEETs are not a meme, they are a market and Korra's ending was nothing but pandering to NEETs because "lezing out is hot".

None of those things are pandering.

I have a realistic opinion of the anime industry. What makes you think I only watch shows like MHA and DB?

The anime and manga industries have a high concentration of women. NEETs are a Western meme, they are not a target audience. Korra is not anime and has nothing to do with this.

Appealing to any audience is "pandering", user. Japan is also growing more and more aware that westerners are a significant part of their audience contributing dosh to figs, BDs and other merch. I agree that westerners have a different approach to sex and sexuality in culture but watch a popular ecchi anime and try and tell me even nips really act like that. I mean, just look at Saber's character progression. I don't even watch Fate but it's pretty clear she's been flanderized to be waifu NEET bait.

I believe Cred Forums is talking about possibly 7 out of all of those because the rest are absolute garbage not even worth ironically watching.

you've never been to Cred Forums, and/or you're absolutely delusional about the primary demographic of most seasonal anime

...

Define pandering then, so we can get some clue of why you can claim that it doesn't happen in anime when studios admit themselves that they have to sell themselves to their audience and have to give up on most of their projects because they wouldn't be profitable.

No, they don't, NEETs are not a meme and Korra's ending was nothing but NEET pandering.

I have worked at Ankama as a scrub animator for the 2nd season of Wakfu so I have a little bit of experience and you can't tell me that a group of people complaining having to work more than 6 hours a day and who value personnal touch over consistence in the animation aren't lazy, if they went in school like GOBELINS they would have been told and teached that consistency is the bedrock of a good animated movie made in a group

>Lezing out.
>Wearing next to nothing for no reason.
>Creep shots.

>Appealing to any audience is "pandering", user.
Nobody defines pandering like this.

>watch a popular ecchi anime and try and tell me even nips really act like that
Who said ecchi anime is supposed to reflect how Japanese people behave in real life?

> I don't even watch Fate but it's pretty clear she's been flanderized to be waifu NEET bait.
A waifu is a character you are married to. NEETs are not a target audience. Anime does not bait.

Meme.

I have been to Cred Forums, and Cred Forums is not the target demographic of anime. All TV anime is seasonal.

Pandering is when you include explicitly or implicitly sexual content and don't actually like it yourself but cynically put it in anyway so there's more sales or because you are forced to include it.

They absolutely have a high concentration of women and you have no idea what you are talking about. NEETs are a meme and KORRA IS NOT ANIME. Why are you bringing Korra into this when it's not anime?

I'm so worried about the jap animation industry imploding on itself as more and more studios branch out and stretch the animator pool thin. Darling in the Franxx seems like a hopeful endeavor since it's a collaboration between two studios.

pls no

You know if I had never seen the show and someone told me the one on the right was the one on the left’s younger sister, I’d believe it. I’m not sure if it counts as recognizing the character if I need context.

Studio collaborations are nothing new, and even when there's just one lead studio there are animators from many studios involved.

>Off model always means making everything squat and chubby.
I'd rather have everything go off model Obari style, eyes included.

the target demographic are late-night otaku who spend their savings on BD's and merch. The very crux of otaku anime caters to delusional social misfits who place high value in 2-dimensional girls.

>Nobody defines pandering like this.
Y-YES, THAT'S HOW EVERYONE BUT YOU DEFINES IT YOU MENTAL MIDGET
You can pander without nudity holy shit it's like you're trying to reduce the definition so you don't have to admit you were wrong.
OH WAIT that's exactly what you're doing
and before you whine about mindreading and assuming your intention, remember that you very own definition of pandering is based entirely on assuming intention too

Otaku is a vague group of people and late night anime encompasses all kinds of things.

Nobody defines it like that. Why do you think it's ONLY moe/ecchi type of anime that gets called out for supposedly pandering? Why do you think people are so angry about it?

>you very own definition of pandering is based entirely on assuming intention too
It's not. It's based on how people define it.

I miss Wander so much.

FOOL!
Thats Deadpool

Gracias doc

Otaku are considered subhuman trash by the normal Japanese populace. Even the otaku in Japan know this.

Otaku, as Westerners comprehend them, do not actually exist. Actual otaku are not considered subhuman trash in Japan, although I'm sure Westerners wish they were.

Japans been doing it for years

Yes they fucking are.

No they haven't and this isn't an example of what is being talked about.

You wish.

You're a gaijin. You do not have to show solidarity with the disgusting subhuman otaku of Japan.

Am I the only one who finds it weird that he is publicly saying he thinks about the sexual activity of children?
I mean of course we do it on Cred Forums all the time but not on social media.

>Actual otaku are not considered subhuman trash in Japan

Yes, they.are, you don't even know that much about the country to know this, a lot of anime make fun about the fact they aren't into tridimenstional girls

Those people don't exist, and as a gaijin why are you so obsessed with "otaku"?

They aren't, you just wish they were. For whatever reason.

>is he right?

No.

There's another saying: you can do anything you want, as long as you get away with it. If it's consistent, then it's a style choice. But that doesn't mean that you got away with it.

>you don't even need to know

fixed

>No they haven't
Why are weebs the people who understand Japan the least?

>the others are doing it so it's fine
it's never fine

I'm not a weeb and never said or implied I am. This kind of off-model stuff that is being talked about is not something that is normal in anime.

So actually got a source? As someone who actually knows Japanese people they say Otakus are considered fucking losers.
>Mad weeb doesn't want to accept the fact that japs hate him

you love something or someone too much you tend to ignore it's flaws no matter how obvious they are

Yes it is

There are Americans who say that gamers are all misogynists, nazis and basement dwellers and that violent video games cause school shootings. What about it?

>Mad weeb doesn't want to accept the fact that japs hate him
I'm not a weeb and never said or implied I am.

How does one draw a background character standing far away with perfect detail using nothing but a pen and a small piece of paper? You're just trying to bait way too hard, pal.

It's not and this is an even worse example. It's two entirely different productions made twenty years apart, of course the character design is going to change.

That's a shitty analogy and you know it.

It's not. Yeah, you can find Japanese people crying about "otaku" e.g. Miyazaki, but you can also find Americans crying about gamers or whatever.

>liking ian and his garbager shows

That's not an excuse for going off model

It's not off-model. It's two different productions made twenty years apart.

>soul eater not
God this was such a shit show.

Someone saying a game is racist doesn't make it so
People saying Otaku's are losers does mean that people think Otakus are losers.

this coupled with the chibi-like style now makes SU unwatchable

>Soul eater is 20 years old
Kek, retarded weeb

I never said a game is racist because someone says so. What are you talking about?

>People saying Otaku's are losers does mean that people think Otakus are losers.
It means these particular people think so. You can find people to validate any view.

...

We were talking about Dragon Ball. I didn't say or imply I'm a weeb or retarded.

People thinking Otaku are losers = People think Otaku are losers

Christ I hate the metaphor shit comic creators do

By the same logic gamers are misogynist racist Nazis because some Americans said so. I explained this already.

Considering it's Dobson, I don't find it weird at all. He's probably drawn at least a few pieces of Splatoon inflation porn for personal use.

That rebecca is cringeworthy, someone drew that and gave perky obnoxious dialogue to it. How the fuck does Dobson always act so annoying

He was clearly rounding the numbers for the sake of discussion, without coming off like a 13 year old wanna be math nerd with a stick up his ass.

Nobody in the US or the rest of the world is offended for being called a gamer. Most Japanese on the other hand will be deeply insulted if you call them otaku.

Your comic is even more cringe inducing than his, congrats

You are one dumb weeb user who clearly doesn't understand english.
>I think someone is racist
Does not make them racist
>People think Otaku's are losers
Does mean that people think Otaku's are losers.
It's literally 1=1

Ian, the changes need to be consistent- if there's no conversation of mass on the character's porptotions, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Essentially, it's like how in squash and stretch- you keep the mass consistent.

>Nobody in the US or the rest of the world is offended for being called a gamer.
Except for all those people who are offended and have the same idea about "gamers" as you do about "otaku."

What is the deal with the West being so obsessed with otaku anyway, or what they think "otaku" are?

I never said or implied I'm a weeb.

Someone claiming that otaku are losers does not mean otaku are losers.

No but Otaku are viewed as losers.

And gamers are viewed as nazis by the same logic.

Normal Japanese people don't consider gamers to be nazis. They do consider otaku to be filthy dumb unsocial losers who bring shame to Japan.
Greatest dishonorabu shame.

If you want to claim that gamers are nazis, all you need to do is ask the right Americans. The same applies to wanting to claim that otaku are losers.

>They do consider otaku to be filthy dumb unsocial losers who bring shame to Japan.
You wish.

And again why is the West so obsessed with this? This thread was supposed to be about American animation going off-model and whatnot, now it's about people obsessing over "otaku."

God I still can't believe how hard they managed to fuck up the Killer Queen reveal. Everything from the bad drawing to the weird design (bat ears? what the fuck) should never have been allowed to happen. For a second I was piss scared that this was going to be the standard for the rest of the season, thank god I was wrong.

>Why do animators listen to veteran animators like if they were the bible?
>And then completely follow their word like law even though the animators are taking the messages way too fucking seriously?

This is sort of the society that animators live in. Since revering the "9 old men" Glenn Keane, or Tex Avery as the visions of perfection that we must ever strive to achieve, it generates a culture of worshiping older animators as some kind of elder statesmen of the trade. It is really hammered into students in art school.

High tide, time to act?

>PDD
Has it been that long already?

holy fuck you're still alive

please die

because someone inevitably tried to take the higher ground with anime being superior to western animation, and just dragged the whole conversation in another direction

so is 90% of Cred Forums

...

I don't know what you're talking about, you just sound like one of my IRL friends.

Dobson is like 45, dude

Yeah but thinking something doesn't make it true except that Japanese do think Otakus are losers.

That's because we're all just Japanese losers pretending to be non-Japanese.

Man when did this thread reach bump limit? It's only existed for like 12 hours, that was pretty fast.

Someone first attacked anime.

No they don't. You just wish they did. Why are you obsessed with this?

>Drawing that SEXY guy's handsome head.
Gets me every time this is posted.

I'm not him, the only Kamau I know of are in my Spanish miniature games.

La creatura...

It's really funny how that weeb keeps responding to obvious bait.

It's really funny how you're too scared to point out the "weeb" in question.

Which episode did this happen in

Nigga are you crazy? Stop trying to be talented and well versed in the principles of animation. They'll never higher with that kind of work ethic.

They literally do and you have no proof otherwise.