/fate/:

What is your favourite climax fight and why?

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I always thought the fights in Fate were very cringy and boring.

Cringe worthy for a lot of the fights for sure but not all are boring.

Illya vs Gilgamesh

Kuro vs Miyu. You know the one. Very climactic so to speak.

Literally this. She was motivated by her love for Miyu. I wonder how much sex they've had

Sparks liner high. Shirou figthing at par with saber, aside from being a simply badass fight

*fighting

Shiro vs Kotomine is the hypest shit. I love the image of two guys at the verge of death just trying to throw whatever they can.
And they also fight in front of a giant evil fetus inside of a grail.

>Metal as Fuck Tier
Shirou vs Kotomine

>Great Tier
Shirou vs Archer
Shirou vs Saber Alter

>Cool Tier
Shirou vs Gilgamesh
Kiritsugu vs Kotomine

>Boring Tier
Saber vs Gilgamesh

Shirou vs. Gilgamesh

Because "King of Heroes, do you have enough swords?"

Shirou vs Kirei
The scene, the true last battle, the name and prelude of the fucking chapter (All the evil of this world / All the good of this life), heck even the soundtrack that played was perfect (Light and Darkness)

man, the Shirou vs Gil was so cringey with the super hyper jumpy animations and lack of choreography. It's like the director just told the animators to "make it more action-looking".
I hope that the adapted Heaven's Gate will not feature those over-the-top animations.
I mean, Shirou vs Gil was like Archer vs Lancer in UBW with less QUALITY. even with superb animation, without a proper understanding of choreography, I really can't feel anything.

Poo in the loos brothers

I wish i could just take Shirou and Archers relationship from UBW.
Sabers influence on Shiruo from FSN.
Sakuras suffering from HF.
Literally every single moment with Kotomine in the VN.
With Rin as main love interest.
And just fucking make one route out of it.

God fucking shit i hate that i alwasy have to pick and choose shit in fate that i like because the characters all vary so fucking much from route to route in how much i like them.
Saber is suppose to be very cool and sympathetic but i could not give to shit about her in any other route that isn't hers.

It wouldn't be her route if she has more character depth and interaction in another route.
That's like the main essence of visual novels with player intervention. Player gets to decide who is the main focus by choosing the maiden's route.

HF manly fight. I really like Kiri vs Kirei/Shirou vs Kirei vibes. It's like something that should happen between them. Grand final manly fight.

>All the evil of this world / All the good of this life
Kotomine Kirei / Emiya Shirou
Fuck, I just realized how the chapters overlap

HF: Perfection
Fate: Simple but sweet, Shirou and Saber using what they've learned to overcome their obstacles
UBW: The real climax was Shirou vs. Archer, Gil's final battle was a flashy application of that battle's answer.
Zero: Clusterfuck of 3 concurrent unrelated battles. Kerry vs. Kotomine is one of the most forced rivalries ever.

HA doesn't really fit in the same vein as these.

>Zero: Clusterfuck of 3 concurrent unrelated battles. Kerry vs. Kotomine is one of the most forced rivalries ever.
Fuck you
>youtube.com/watch?v=v6aPk8BHwf0

I feel like Shirou vs Archer is the climax of UBW

This was actually really good and I'm still mad Silver Link completely fucked it up

Well you kind of have to remember that the Shirou VS Kotomine fight is basically just Kotomine beating the shit out of Shirou for five minutes until Kotomine's artificial heart gives out and he croaks.

I take it you like the DEEN movie version better..?

>still drawing Miyu's pussy in bottom frame
This fuckin guy.

>Kotomine's artificial heart gives out and he croaks.
Kotomine actually spared Shirou.

Nope, he literally died on his feet, man. Kotomine had a very strict time limit. He was living on borrowed time for the past ten years, and now his time was up.

Yes and it's fucking awesome
Shirou doesn't just take it either
youtube.com/watch?v=6wLHKS6EOko&t=24m15s

He tries not to take it, but he doesn't have a choice. Kotomine completely outclasses him. The only reason Shirou was still standing was thanks to the fact that he had swords sticking out of him all over that hurt Kotomine as well.

It's great, isn't it?

Eh. I like things to be a little more even.

A scene being dramatic or emotional doesn't mean they stop having cute butts or low-cut skirts
Consistency in the details is what being a quality artist is all about

Shirou vs Archer tied with Badass priest vs Walking Sword.

Those were the best ones i think.

But as I remember he stopped in middle of final blow. They even talk a little after that.

He would have won if they didn't spend and hour debating morality and the the meaning of life.

He didn't have enough strength to finish the last punch

Agreed.

>Insane build up on saber fighting the spearguy
>LOL we made contract you don't need to fight xdddd
>Insane build up on archer fight
>Oh shit he's gonna have to fight an entire army
>LMAO check out my earthquake
>gg no re fgt xdddd
Yeah not boring at all. I've only seen fate/zero though, but that's not gonna change after the dogshit that was.

Shirou vs Dark Berserker in HF
>Can you keep up with me?
The entirety of Heaven's Feel has some great moments.

If the real Manjew was born and he turned out to be a pretty nice guy and not a murderer, how would Kirei have felt?

Amazingly they're all letdowns for me or grudge matches between the characters I least care about so none of them. The most decent fights tended to come in the middle of the routes

Since Yuki kajiura loves adding metal on her remixes do you think we can get a similar top tier quality remix such as this?

youtube.com/watch?v=BbY63Peyiz4

Come on. It's Kotominator. He still have some feelings for Shirou's butt

...

How could you not love the shlock ending Heaven's Feel has?

>he didn't care about Kirei

He didn't care what was born, only that it was.

Neo Ufotable would fuck this scene up you just know.

>Neo Ufotable
Yeah. And Rho Aias vs Gae Dick is CG. Faitbait thread is not here.

Easily HF.

nothing from this garbage

He didn't care what it would do after being born, but it's actions after being born would answer the questions Kotomine was wanting to know.

The last two days of Heaven's Feel are the peak of the franchise

Does Kirei fucked Bazett or not? It's pretty shady in HA

Which historical/mythological characters do you think would make good Servants?
Hard mode: Which historical characters could be made into Gilgamesh-tier Servants?

Kirei is a man of god. He doesn't rape.

>I've only seen fate/zero though,

Nigga

No. But aside from Cu he must the only other man she felt something for.

What's so bait about that, i fucking googled where to start and everywhere I looked people were recommending that shit and that it's the best ever, not too mention AMAZING animation (which is not true at all).

You type like you're underage. This is the last reply from me.

>Illya vs Gilgamesh
>single target vs AoE
Illya wins.

>(You.)

Lancer vs. Bazett

But Saber is at her best in Heaven's Feel
Even before she gets BLACKED

It would be amazing if there was a route to combine all the best aspects of the three routes while resolving all plot conflicts, but that's not likely to happen.

Fate route to be quite honest, it's a great finale. Double Avalon, Gil getting btfo in a fair fight, Saber and Shirou's goodbye at the end, etc.

Final Dead Lancer.

>Avalon
>fair fight

No more unfair than Ea. It's Gil's own fault that he couldn't counter it.

>didn't get her
I don't even know why I still play FGO.

There is literally no way to counter Avalon

Pay up goy

>this frame
Man I loved HF

Well it sounds like Avalon is just the best then. Sasuga Saber.

The only reason Kotomine had a chance is because Shirou couldn't make a single projection or he wouldn't have one to destroy the grail.

It goes both ways. Otherwise Shirou would've murdered him

Avalon's a counter in and of itself.

It's basically a DP, invulnerability frames and all. If you fuck up the timing, it could end badly. After all, she can't keep it up forever.

Sparks Liner High

Why did this happen?
Aside from being an excuse for Shirou to see Rule Breaker

Shirou didn't have his projections but he had his blade armor that hurt Kotomine as much as he hurt Shirou.

That episode consumed the entire budget for the whole anime.
I think there were 4 times where they used the exact same shot of Saber swinging her sword, copy and pasted, throughout the anime.

And was also the reason why he couldn't move his joints and his brain was turning to mush

I can't wait to see how they ruin Kotomine vs. Shirou.

Heaven's Feel is the suffering route. Everyone has to lose until the very end.

...

This was also my favorite, but it was more because of it being Gil and Saber settling the score rather than the fight itself.

A shame it feels like Nasu wrote each route separately and in order. Fate is my favorite route, but I would've liked if he used anything he might have learned from writing UBW and HF to improve it.

>A shame it feels like Nasu wrote each route separately and in order.
Because he did.

>man, the Shirou vs Gil was so cringey
People have started calling every-fucking-thing "cringy" again and it's really bothering me. We hit the point years ago when calling everything cringy itself became cringy, and people stopped using it outside of really obvious contexts like Watamote and such.

I bet Re:Zero's second half is the reason it's started to make a comeback.

>There is literally no way to counter Avalon

Sure as shit is. Its maryoku drain is absolutely absurd. You just have to wait it out till she's vulnerable again.

Of course, it having reasonable limitations is pointless in the current state of the Nasuverse, overrun with stupidity and bullshit as it now is.

I wonder how different FSN would be if Nasu finished Sakura's route the way he intended, made Ilya's route, and then went back over and touched up Fate route.

Deadlines are a bitch.

Unless Saber was somehow holding back, since it's been shown Alter still has some traces of the original, that fight was absolute bullshit.

Even using Archer's memories, it would imply Shirou was physically capable of keeping up with her, and that Archer was actually a superior close combat fighter, not to mention Saber might as well have had infinite mana.

I'm not gunna argue with you, I'm tired of explaining this shit.

>Saber Alter was holding back
nice meme

Fate's overall impact wouldn't have changed, but it might have given the mediums it influenced (particularly VNs and LNs) a slightly more nuanced impression of works with its (action-oriented) context and approach. On the other hand, most VNs might've still been held back by dumb scenarios and budget, so who knows.

Fate would've fit better next to UBW and HF with regards to its emotional context while still functioning commendably as an introduction to the setting.

HF would've been a more weird sad route resembling the Farside Routes of Tsukihime. Shounenfaggots would've hated it, but it would've fulfilled its purpose just fine, probably. It may or may not be a requirement to move on to Illya's route.

Ilya route probably ends up the finale, unless HF still fulfills that role as well, in which case it might be an alternative finale. Probably the most esoteric route given you'd be dealing with Einzbern and Grail fuckery. We probably wouldn't have gotten Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya (good riddance) because everyone would have been satisfied with Ilya in the VN. This would be an unspeakable gain.

Then explain to me how a normal human, even if he was enhanced by Archer's arm, could win a fully physical duel against a much more capable opponent, fully intent on killing him. Even if the memories he pulled out of his arm were of Saber fighting so he could try and predict her moves, she was still faster, stronger, and could spam whatever she wanted.

At least against Kuzuki you still have AotG buffs and a style that only works once for a surprise attack.

Shirou gains the stats of the blades' users when he projects them. It's how he beat Berserker.

Because in SLH, Shirou isn't a normal human anymore. Why do you think it's called Sparks "Liner" High? It's a callback to Nasu's early short story Notes, to indicate that in that ending Shirou transcends the limits of "humanity" to become a greater being, if only for a moment before he blows his brain out.

>hen explain to me how a normal human, even if he was enhanced by Archer's arm, could win a fully physical duel against a much more capable opponent, fully intent on killing him
Re-read the entire visual novel and this time pay attention to the explanations on how projection works.

Hell, just read the Black Berserker scene again. How the fuck do you think Shirou swung a giant axe like that?

it took 4 simultaneous attacks from multiple Kanshou/Bakuya's to actually open her up to allow shirou to destroy his mind and strike the 'killing' blow.

Two madmen engaging in a worthless folly.

Shit, I always keep forgetting that part of the projection bussiness.

What are the requirements to be able to remember a blade? Shirou can use Caliburn and Avalon, and then the rest because of Archer, but how did Archer learn his?

It's also not just the projection. He accepts that if he doesn't throw everything he possibly can at Saber, he won't be able to stop her. That doesn't just mean using all of his stored projections against her, it also means not giving a shit about ANY sort of damage he does to himself in the process of the fight. Not just from the encroaching blades or projecting beyond his limits, but from more traditional injuries like broken bones or torn tendons.

>Its "counters" are that Saber might not use it correctly and that she can't do it indefinitely
That's not a counter, that's a limitation.
Avalon's function is to make Saber invincible.
It performs this function flawlessly, with no possibility that Saber could be harmed by anything, even True Magic, as long as it is active.
It's possible to kill Saber before she uses it, or to bait/force her into using it and kill her afterwards, but if she uses it properly there is absolutely no way for anyone to get around it or limit its effects in any way.

Couldn't Gae Bolg get through it and kill her if she fails her luck check?

She can't attack while it's up. It's a trump card that has zero offensive function. Once it's up, the opponent will know about it and its function as a trump card would diminish.

Why did the retard hit the sword instead of just slashing his head open?

No. Until Nasu pull something new out of his ass there is absolutely nothing that can affect the user of Avalon.

The choreography in Fate is so bad.

They can be a clutz and lose it.

It could prevent Gae Bolg's activation while it's up, but what makes you think Avalon could negate its effect if it is used after cause and effect has been reversed?

Avalon's bullshit out-bullshits Gae Bolg's bullshit.
It's simply stronger bullshit.

Because Avalon transport the user to a different dimension that no other magic can reach.

Not Gae Bolg, not Fragarach, not even True Magic.

But nothing says how long it must be up. She can just use it for an instant to nullify an attack and counter with an Excaliblast to the face.

No, she basically becomes "untargetable"
As a Divine Construct created by the World, Avalon's Mystery is way beyond Gae Bolg's curse

That's not relevant to the argument. Other defensive tools can be situationally more useful than Avalon, but the point is that Avalon's purpose is to be an absolutely impenetrable defense that has no possible counterplay in regards to its actual use.
It is possible to plan around Avalon, but it is not possible to actually do anything about it while it is active.

>but what makes you think Avalon could negate its effect if it is used after cause and effect has been reversed?

Then Gae Bolg would kill Saber before she can activate Avalon. The moment Cu uses GB you're already stabbed by it.

If he uses it only before she activates it. Using Gae Bolg afterwards does not cancel the activation.

Using Gae Bolg does not cancel anything.

This is a fair point. So Avalon actually offers no useful defense against Gae Bolg, because if it's not activated before Avalon goes up, then it can just be activated after it stops.

>With Illya as main love interest.
Fixed that for you.

>"I protect my head. My face hasn't turned into swords yet. It'll be over if I'm hit there."

HF final fight is the best "final" fight of every TM works. Still, my favorite fight is sparks liner high.

I suppose. Gae Bolg's advantage is that it consumes a relatively small amount of mana, so it can be spammed to an extent. But if Saber activated Avalon soon after Gae Bolg, she wouldn't be hit and could counter right after, so it's still up to individual skill.

That Arjuna and Karna?

>sword vs tofuman
>sword vs SWORD
>swordad vs tofuman
POWER GAP
>sword vs gil

Shiro and Gil fight wasn't THAT bad but it pales in comparison to most of the fights in fate

Read the fucking VN, user.

>But if Saber activated Avalon soon after Gae Bolg
There is no "soon after Gae Bolg", you are stabbed as soon as it's activated. There is no spare time in which to use Avalon.

If only.

I want a Kajiura cover of the church theme though.

>have all the best elements in one route
>with the exception of Illya
But yeah, I'd shell out some cash to see this

Odysseus might not be Gil tier, but he ought to be on par with most of the major servants in the franchise. Especially if summoned to the archer class.

>Still, my favorite fight is sparks liner high.
How was it?

Well shirou said that saber couldn't use all of her power because that would have caused the roof to fall apart or something like that. So, she had to appeal to her combat abilities. But now that i mention it, it sounds kinda ridiculous

This just looks like brotag from Persona 4 fighting Shirou

For a mobile game in a language I can't even read, the fight against Goddess Rhon in the Camelot chapter of FGO was pretty exciting. Hell, the whole storming of the city.

I'm these btw

>How was it?
Fucking great. Read the VN.

Krishna would kick his ass while stroking his mythical dick with his astras.

Dark Saber's main strength is that she can use Excalibur without mana constraint. In exchange she become too slow compared to her other version. Her instinct is not as good too if I recalled correctly.

Start the story from the events of Unlimited Blade Works, telling the Fate route in hindsight as Archer's backstory. End Unlimited Blade Works with tragedy (Shirou doesn't learn his lesson about not taking the world's burdens onto himself, becoming Archer again) in order to begin Heaven's Feel. Then tell Heaven's Feel from Archer's POV so that the entire show has a consistent protagonist. Archer in Heaven's Feel is Shirou from Unlimited Blade Works. Compared to UBW Archer, HF Archer understands his younger self better. This Archer's influence allows Shirou to finally break Free! from his toxic delusions about heroism, ending the time loop. In this way, all three of Fate/stay night's timelines could be adequately represented in a linear story that has the same thematic trajectory as the visual novel.

Of course, the devil is in the details here. How do you make Saber's story satisfying when her trajectory over the three routes is a slide into despair and corruption? How do you take Gilgamesh out of the story gracefully when the third route chucks him to the side in such a humiliating manner? How would you do justice to all three of Shirou's romances? Thinking about this, I can see why it's never been tried. It'd be a supremely difficult adaptive balancing act. But that's also what attracts me to it - I look at it like an intellectual and artistic challenge, a puzzle box waiting to be solved. The reward would be the most powerful version of Shirou's story ever presented onscreen. The Fate/stay night visual novel loses 2/3rds of its power when transplanted into a linear medium, but I think that it'd be possible to recover that through careful narrative engineering. Kinoku Nasu is ambitious in how he constructs his stories, and while The Garden of Sinners film series matched the scope of his sprawling light novel series, Fate/stay night has yet to see its equivalent in anime.

Bros, as someone who learned Japanese specifically because of Nasu's work, despite what some think, powerlevels are utterly bullshit in the Nasuverse. His setting is (or was) really cool, in-depth, and he clearly does IRL research on occultism to conjure up his remarkably neat magic system that surpasses Higashide's chuuni bullshitting and arrives at full blown schizoid personality disorder levels of internal detail and consistency, but trust me, the powerlevels are totally bullshit.

That the powerlevels are utterly bullshit should become monumentally clear to you the moment you see how fucked his more recent works, from CCC to F/GO, are with regards to their powercreep. For example, everything having to do with BB's Alter Egos or the nature of Gil's armory basically getting retconned to be even more retardedly overpowered in CCC, or so many fucking Heroic Spirits getting EX Ranked something in GO. Look at fucking Rhongomyniad suddenly becoming a linchpin of the fucking world in Garden of Avalon and onward. Look at Mahoyo, even, where Touko's and Aoko's capabilities are not even consistent with their past appearances so that their stupid cunt powerlevels can be wanked harder.

And then you have Higashide with Fate/Apocrypha: even if this work was able to adhere to the setting in broad strokes, its overall feeling is retarded (Astolfo crying because he can't remember his NP? Are you fucking with me?) and approach to the setting's cosmology is often arbitrary and lacking in depth compared to the original works. Sakamoto with the Case Files does better, but is still at variance with the feel of the original works because by the time he started writing, Nasu had already long stopped giving a fuck about the internal consistency of the setting and decided he could just go "WHOOPS ALTERNATE REALITY" whenever the fuck he wanted.

Nasu stopped giving a fuck a long time ago, so why care about his previously good work, tarnished as it is?

>there is absolutely nothing that can affect the user of Avalon

Are you retarded?

I think the whole Nasuverse needs a reboot, starting with the Tsukihime remake.

Krishna is just an embodiment of a god. Since he is 100% deity he can't be summoned. Unless I'm remembering something incorrectly, it's been a while since I looked at the Hindu myths.

Please name a single instance where anything has ever hit through Avalon

>Nasu had already long stopped giving a fuck about the internal consistency of the setting and decided he could just go "WHOOPS ALTERNATE REALITY" whenever the fuck he wanted.

Ignoring Prisma and Hana no Miyako, what exactly lacks internal consistency?

>Nasu had already long stopped giving a fuck about the internal consistency of the setting and decided he could just go "WHOOPS ALTERNATE REALITY" whenever the fuck he wanted.
This is probably what bothers me the most. I also hate how fans immediately jump to that excuse whenever you point out how silly something is.

>CG Kiritsugu is stupid
>LOL ALTERNATE REALITY STUPID!

>What is your favourite climax fight and why?
kotomine vs kirei perfect
but Saber vs Chaos Spacemarine good too

What is the point of the throne of heroes?
What function does it serve outside of the Holy Grail War?

2005 Arc is the best Arc.

>Made by fae
Gee I wonder if there's something above fae.. Oh wait

Literally nothing.

I don't think anyone actually likes CG Kerry in concept, unless they just want to make an Emiya family team in FGO.

But liking it and accepting that it's a thing that technically doesn't break any rules (doesn't even bend any, really) aren't the same thing.

>kotomine vs kirei

Why would the world make a contract with a scrub like Kerrytugu? What is he going to do? Shoot bullets at Primate Murder?

No, it's bullshit.

Mahoyo full tl when?

The wait is killing me.

They're Gaia's defenders.

Do you actually have a point
It is explicitly and repeatedly stated that absolutely nothing can touch Saber while Avalon is active. It is beyond even True Magic.
Please present your counter-argument.

>tfw just saw really cool Arcueid fig
>No money at all
>1 left

Jesus fuck kill me right now.

>Why would the world make a contract with a scrub like Shirou? What is he going to do? Shoot swords at Primate Murder?

I forgot to add
>finally give Illya a happy end
But i thought it was a given
Sorry lad

It doesn't make sense for Kiritsugu to make a contract with the world.

Outside of Grail Wars they can be thought of a lot like Catholics think of saints. And there's also the Grands and the Counter Guardians that are summoned to protect humanity and the world in particularly dire times.

Because buffing Time Alter results in something really fucking broken. And as the UBW anime shows, not every CG summoning has to be for something like Primate Murder.

>Shooting Noble Phantasms ranging from Gae Bolg to Excalibur knockoffs is the same as shooting bullets

Sun Wukong is Gil tier in the source material already, so imagine him with a Servant power boost

Most of those are going to be about as useless as bullets against something like Primate Murder.

You fixed absolutely nothing. You simply took a shit in the gumbo and said THERE I MADE IT BETTER.

>Servant power boost
Being a servant is actually a major nerf for anyone that was actually powerful in their source.

>Noble Phantasm bullets are completely harmless and couldn't blow a Servant in half

Fairy are Gaia's sense of touch, which means Avalon(like everything Saber has) is made by Gaia.

There is a thing called authority in Nasuverse, if you weren't a loliposter newfag you'd know that.

>He hasn't read Garden of Avalon

Holy Christ the things I would do to this cup are fucking obscene

>Gil-tier

pffft

I have, and everything Saber has is because of Gaia.

What's your fucking point?

Feel free to list examples of things that can bypass Avalon at any time

Here's your (You).

>kotomine vs kirei perfect
Zermobabies, everyone.

He's clearly implying Arcueid.

That said, I haven't touched F/GO at all but I've heard that there's tons of bullshit in there that have surpassed her, Crimson Moon, and Type Mercury.

Is that true?

Really? Really seemed otherwise, but then I don't know a lot about Fate

>That said, I haven't touched F/GO at all but I've heard that there's tons of bullshit in there that have surpassed her, Crimson Moon, and Type Mercury.

Not at all, no.

Narmer/Menes, the first king of Egypt.

I heard someone destroyed all of reality or something though.

>That said, I haven't touched F/GO at all but I've heard that there's tons of bullshit in there that have surpassed her, Crimson Moon, and Type Mercury.


The strongest we've seen is Solomon but he's not a big deal. For example in the MB manga Sion and ATLAS are looking for another problem without giving a shit about Solomon, who was BTFO by Arcueid.

Since Shakespeare is a Servant, I thought Isaac Newton could be a good Caster.
He could be pretty powerful if he had powers related to gravity

He's thinking on the line that "this was made by Gaia, therefore it is part of Gaia and Gaia can beat it." While this is ordinarily true, it is demonstrably not so with Avalon.
Ea cannot simply shred through Gaia to reach Saber. Even True Magic, which by nature ignores the laws of the world, cannot reach Avalon.

As far as I know the highest powerlevels its introduced are "Grand Servants", but they're basically just glorified Counter Guardians. Nothing on the level of a Type.

No need to falseflag user, i've seen this before it's always used by shitposters to say that FGO players are retarded and lie about things.

CUPS ARE MEANT TO BE FILLED!

Authority is a thing user. Learn about it.

And EA is shit, Gilgamesh is stuck in the moon cell

Pretty much all of the top-tier Servants like Arturia, Herc, and Cu are limited in one way or another by the fact that they're Servants in a particular class. Arturia has no access to shit like Avalon, Rhon, Prydwen, her steeds, and so on. Herc lost Nine Lives as well as his ability to strategize beyond "Hit it really hard," and Strange Fake seems to indicate that consolidating all of his Labors into God Hand is an awful nerf as well. Cu doesn't have his sword or his chariot or his fucking castle or the full power of his runes (or Wicker Man but that isn't really "his").

But on the other end of the spectrum there are also some Servants that are stronger than they were in life but still pretty bad from a raw power standpoint, like Hans Christian Andersen or Mozart.

Babbage,Edison and Tesla are already Servants, so Newton might be possible.

I WANT TO COMMIT A CRIME

Iskandar is also more powerful.

True Magic is beyond Authority.
It can "kill" Types.
But it still can't touch Saber in Avalon.

Archimedes is going to be in Extella, too, and some of the screenshots show him using shit like giant scales and endless vases of water to battle, so giving Newton gravity powers does seem to be likely if he ever ends up a Servant.

Sort of. He gains Divinity, but I think that's about it from a power standpoint. Maybe his army is bigger than it ever was in life because it can include individuals that were never actually part of the army at the same time. But the fact that he has a Reality Marble he never had in life doesn't really mean much, because he still had that army it summons. So it's more like the Reality Marble prevents him from being weaker than he was in life.

Gil got a power boost. He definitively cannot summon portals that shoot giant magical weapons in the Epic. Unless that is in one of the parts that got lost to time

Why is Kotomine such a good antagonist, lads?
It can't be all just because Nakata Jouji

Ah, fair enough. I got stuck thinking within the context of the Nasuverse, not comparing their shit to the real-world legend.

>It can "kill" Types.
The closest thing we have ever seen to anything indicating this is true is Arc's off-hand mention of how much a pain in the ass having to fight Aoko would be in Tsukihime.

He could in the Nasuverse.

Why did the Shirou vs Kotomine thread turn into this shit?

>True Magic is beyond Authority.
>It can "kill" Types.

That's just Nasu's OC powers he gave to Gil. I think Enkidu mentions that even Ea isn't as powerful as it was in life when they fight.

Zelretch took out Crimson Moon but that was just because he apparently was not familiar with his magic. Even then he can come back.

>Hana no Miyako

I hope you mean "everything written by that dumb bastard Kirishima in general" by that, 'cause nothing he contributed was worthwhile.

But really, just going though F/GO's material is cringe-inducing. Pic related. The tragedy is there's actually -some- cool stuff mixed in amidst the utter nonsensical garbage and completely retarded fanservice bullshit.

These are what I consider Nasu's "original" works:
Kara no Kyoukai - 1998
Tsukihime - 2000
Tsukihime PLUS-DISC - January 2001
Kagetsu Tohya - August 2001
Melty Blood - 2002
Fate/stay night - January 2004
Melty Blood ReACT - May 2004 (this is where the cancer begins)
DDD - 2004 (good up until the last chapter, which is retarded; arguably not Nasuverse)
Fate/hollow ataraxia - 2005 (you can see the traces of cancer growing)

Incidentally, Tsukihime's excellent manga, which Nasu also supervised, began in 2003 and ended in 2010.

This was TM's output for the last four years (and planned works for 2017):
~2012
Mahou Tsukai no Yoru
Fate/Apocrypha
Fate/kaleid liner PRISMAILLYA 3rei!!
~2013
Fate/hollow ataraxia manga
Fate/Extra CCC
Fate/kaleid liner PRISMAILLYA anime
Kara no Kyoukai: Future Gospel movie
~2014
Fate/kaleid liner PRISMAILLYA 2wei! anime
Fate/stay night Unlimited Blade Works ufotable anime series
~2015
Fate/kaleid liner PRISMAILLYA 2wei! Herz
Fate/Grand Order
Fate/strange fake Light Novel
~2016
Fate/Extella
~2017
Fate/stay night Heaven's Feel film - 2017
Fate/Extra Last Encore anime - 2017

TM's current focus should be obvious enough (it's fucking Fate), but beyond this, do you happen to notice any profound differences in tone between the so-called original works and the recent prominent works that aren't simply adaptations of existing material?

You put a whole lot of words in that post but you evaded the question entirely.

What do you think lacks internal consistency?

Also, fuck you Edison is fantastic.

It's because he's a madman, engaging in useless folly

>Even then he can come back.
That's more because the source of his existence wasn't destroyed.

>That last part with Illya
Sigh, fuck my life

That's basically true of all Types. V/V was only mildly inconvenienced by the destruction of her body and flat-out says she can revive herself to fight the other Types if she was willing to kill all the Liners and A-Rays living around her corpse.

I was referring to Zelretch and the Crimson Moon
Types are basically invulnerable to anything on Earth because, in modern Nasuverse terms, they have their own "authority" associated with their own planet and therefore cannot be harmed by things that operate on Gaia's rules.
Conceptual weapons and True Magic operate on their own independent rules, and therefore Types are relatively vulnerable to them.

>Even then he can come back.
Types don't actually die when they're killed, even by the Black Barrel, hence the quotation marks.

I legitimately have never touched F/GO. I keep hearing stupid shit about it though.

There's this

You also forgot Chibichuki

It's a little debatable whether you can say True Magic is what actually defeated the Crimson Moon. We know Zel fired a massive, MASSIVE beam from the Jewel Sword. He definitely used Magic to fuel it (siphoning off magical energy from other universes) but it's possible that the beam itself was created through Magecraft.

>do you happen to notice any profound differences in tone between the so-called original works and the recent prominent works that aren't simply adaptations of existing material?
No.

But please, do explain.

You're first problem is is that hearing about something secondhand, especially TM, will always make it sound worse than it is and put it out of context. Second is that it looks like some of the info you got was just plain wrong and was probably said by someone like him That isn't to say that there isn't bad in F/GO but that mainly comes from the writing quality of certain story segments since it has multiple writers.

>That isn't to say that there isn't bad in F/GO but that mainly comes from the writing quality of certain story segments since it has multiple writers.
Obligatory "Fuck Septem."

>You're first problem is is that hearing about something secondhand
That's why I'm asking, retard. I don't know what ad hom you're trying to start here, but you could've just answered my question and be done with it.

Mind of Steel deserves a continuation, hands down.

FGO is bad though, hell even the gameplay is bad.

What makes Nasu's works good are not powerlevels but characters, there are no real characters in F/GO. They're basically just waifus and husbandos with generic personalities that have 20 lines of dialogue.

Not to mention that the MC is literally (You) which means that there's no-one good like the Shikis, Shirou or Aoko.

No one who thinks they want to see is would actually like how it would turn out.

>That's why I'm asking, retard. I don't know what ad hom you're trying to start here, but you could've just answered my question and be done with it.
Damn son don't get snippy with me. I'm not the guy you were replying to. I'm just trying to say "don't judge a book by its cover" and that you got some wrong info.

Yeah I meant in the context of the real legend, because since in Journey to the West Sun Wukong:
>Is strong enought to lift an 8 ton staff with ease
>Can move tens of thousands of kilometers in a single jump
>Is a master of magic (and can learn new spells by just looking at them)
>Is a master of all martial arts
>Can summon smaller copies of himself
>Can make objects move on their own
>Has 72 different transformations (which actually let him shapeshift into basically anything)
>Is five kinds of immortal
And he has the size-shifting staff and the flying cloud
Sun Wukong is the original OP anime character

MoS continuation

>Emiya Shirou's right hand hand continued it's work of writing while his left hand mechanically shovelled his nutrition - hamburgers from a fast food restaurant he visited while investigating - into his mouth. For nine years, Emiya Shirou had eaten at the table of his home. He had grown tired of Sakura's cuisine. The fast food, filled with the sense of slaughter, was more suited to his tastes. Being able to eat without interrupting one's words or thoughts was better than anything, no matter how you looked at it

Probably. Combat with Second Magic does seem to basically be "ordinary" magecraft in overwhelming force, just huge beams of pure prana. Going by Notes, Types can be defeated by raw brute force attacks, it just takes continent-buster levels of power behind them.

Still doesn't change the original point that even Second Magic, operation of parallel worlds, cannot access Avalon.

That was the point of F/Z

I think I actually cut my retinas reading this post

Thanks for being redundant then.

Don't you like burgers?

But there's more than just powerlevels. Characters can be fleshed out in the story and some of the stories can be good or at least parts can be entertaining. For example if all the got out of Camelot was just powerlevels than you're the problem and not FGO. Also if all you got out of Agravain, who isn't even a playable character, is just a generic husbando then you're just dumb

Gomenasai

Anything with Kotomine is golden. I especially like his talks with Shirou across all routes.

Also, as much shit as the entirety of Fate route gets, I found the Saber parts to be really well written and inspired. Her character is pretty beautiful, even if Zero rapes the living fuck out of her ideology.

>They're basically just waifus and husbandos with generic personalities that have 20 lines of dialogue.

Every new event and new story chapter fleshes out a handful of Servants a little bit more. Some new characters also exist largely to further flesh out pre-existing characters, like Saber Gilles or Carmilla or Saber Lancelot.

>Someone doesn't understand something about the franchise
>"Oh, a Fate thread, oh boy, I finally can ask the people who know their shit"
It's like those threads on /fit/ that get derailed into a Bread discussion

And they say Kiritsugu's life was nothing but despair

>People unironically defending a jew mobage that has 200 characters and """"develops"""""" 20 of them with 20 lines of dialogue and retarded fanfic stories like Arturia becoming a goddess

(You)

Post YFW Grand Order dies and Nasu is forced to make something new

You know Goddess Rhon is a villain, right? And not even a particularly sympathetic one, even if she thought she was doing the right thing.

She's basically an expy of Dust of Osiris from Melty Blood.

Post YFW Nasu dies and stops ruining Kara no Kyoukai by making Shiki a waifu character and NTR Mikiya in a mobage because he wants 100 bucks

Post YFW we get an Emu servant with a NP Reality Marble of summoning an Emu army

ttgl

Also I just did a once-over the list of Serants and about 77 out of the 137 Servants in the game can be argued to have some degree of their character development covered in other TM stories.

Ryougi shows no romantic interest in FGO's MC. Void's relationship to the MC is hard to pin down but might not be straightforwardly romantic.

>Emu servant with a NP Reality Marble of summoning an Emu army

They were both shit. Some parts were good but it needed more sword spam between the two while they're in close combat.

I thought you were asking for examples rather than trying to start an argument.

>Edison is not a perfect example of how gonzo the Nasuverse has become.
>modern day Heroic Spirit
>EX rank NP
>wasn't even really that impressive an inventor in reality, was really more just a fucking business shark
>lion head because reasons

Or you're just trolling me.

Well, if you can't sense there is some immense discrepancy between the presentation and content of Nasu's earliest works vs. Type-Moon's current output, I fear there is little I can do for you.

I'm not saying you're stupid for enjoying them, by the way. I'm saying that how the storyline (especially with regards to scale), characters (the fact that so many of them are just outright freaking gag-characters), and powers (how little restraint is shown these days, thus cheapening what was previously considered powerful) is approached is fundamentally different. The current works don't carry themselves the same way. They feel frivolous.

And frivolity isn't necessarily damning for a series, but it -is- different from how these things used to be. What I asserted as the "original works" had a sort of utsuge bent to them; Kara no Kyoukai was also contemporary with Boogiepop. The content was more subdued in general. The current works read more like Toaru or Higashide's work than the old Nasuverse.

Chibichuki is a gag manga that only further proves my point. I also disregarded Fate/Labyrinth. It's all stupid gag bullshit at the end of the day.

Still reads like a fanfic, senpai. It's really just not the same. It's more melodramatic than anything.

stop it
EVERYTHING IS WRONG WITH THIS.

...

kek

user wanted MoS Shirou.
But the LN narrates how much he actually loves it

Everything about Edison exists to reinforce the reason given in FSN for why modern-day Heroic Spirits are so rare. And he would have been a fucking garbage Servant as a Caster if it weren't for the fact that he's backed by literally every single President of the United States of America.

I'll admit that the last bit is a little silly, but there's nothing wrong with silly in the Nasuverse. We had the Ciel-sensei and Tiger Dojo corners in the original VNs, the gag routes of every single Melty Blood, the way Ahnenerbe is handled. Silly shit is nothing new.

His NP is the manifestation of the final nail in the coffin of mystery in the world.

F/GO contradicts fundamental laws the multiverse is built upon. Plenty of things in FGO are impossible even without the dumb time travel aspect(ex: Berserker having access to Nine Lives, Mashu tanking Excalibur Morgan, Mashu or the incarnate-heroes even existing the way they do, parody servants, etc).

Avenger vs. Bazette

> Berserker having access to Nine Lives
He's slightly less insane due to lower ME and he has no active God Hand either.

>Mashu tanking Excalibur Morgan
It is supposed to block anything if the user is steadfast enough

>Mashu or the incarnate-heroes even existing the way they do
Nothing wrong with them

>parody servants
Nasu says to treat parody stuff like hallow

Oh man just what this thread needed. Autism incarnate.

>Berserker having access to Nine Lives
Unlimited Codes did it first. He basically trades God Hand for a nerfed version of Nine Lives.

>Mashu tanking Excalibur Morgan
Not even a little. Lord Camelot is a ridiculously powerful defensive NP that's as strong as its user can will it to be.

>Mashu or the incarnate-heroes even existing the way they do
It's a concept that has existed since Hollow, arguably HF, and was used more overtly in Apocrypha. And it's since been reinforced by Case Files.

>parody servants
There's nothing new about the Nasuverse lapsing into self-parody AND it being canon.

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>Fai

wat

> FGO
> Treated as Fanfic
> Nasu wrote Camelot.

Yeah sure.

Still waiting on Odysseus and/or Diomedes to show up.

>Fai

"Fai" doesn't seem like that uncommon of a name online, especially when you consider Resivoir Chronicle has a character by that name.

Not saying that either of those Fais aren't faggots, but you haven't exactly proved they have anything to do with each other.

>Not knowing CookingPriest

>there's nothing wrong with silly in the Nasuverse

Yes there is. There absolutely is.

Witty dialogue is fine. Mundane comedy relief characters like Arihiko, Taiga, and Mihaya are fine. They're lighthearted because they live in normal human society. When they get involved, it's usually to get kidnapped.

>Ciel-sensei and Tiger Dojo corners

Yes and they are totally non-canon fourth wall-breaking meta commentaries distinct from the stories themselves. It's just some funny shit meant to prod you in the right direction in a lighthearted way - generally after you just read about how the protagonist was brutally murdered. It doesn't have any bearing on the story itself.

>the gag routes of every single Melty Blood

Which, incidentally, is why I stated that Re-ACT was where the cancer first started. But I'm more just salty because I despise Magical Amber with every bone in my body for flanderizing my precious basement doll. The fact that so many newfags know Kohaku only for being the kawaii meido grinds my gears to no end. But that's a digression.

The gag routes were completely distinct from the actual narrative of each of Melty Blood's iterations. You'll notice that the "serious" characters never really encounter the gag characters or their bubble of general weirdness within the context of their involvement with the main plot, particularly in Night on the Blood Liar or the core conflict with Dust of Osiris in MBAA. The actual plots basically ignore that the gag characters exist. The gag characters like the maids and necos do encounter serious characters ~themselves~, but when they do, they drag the serious character into the gag bullshit.

Granted, you also got this in Kagetsu Tohya and Hollow Ataraxia to an extent, but these are basically glorified fan discs set in fever dreams which function on their own content divide between serious and gag (day is for adding fun little activities to expand on the characters, night is for the MC dying).

(cont)

CookingPriest/ Fai has been shitposting here for ages

None of those examples violate anything at all.

Like, what the hell is the problem with a shield doing what it's supposed to do or Herakles retaining his skills since you can't turn ME full throttle like Illya does without dying.

>Still reads like a fanfic, senpai

What is fanfic about it? Do you think she became an actual full-blown Goddess or something, or do you just have no fucking clue what Heroic Spirits are? Her rank as a spirit got slightly bumped up since she merged with the spear, but what is supposed to be fanfic-like about it?

I love so much about HF, but I can never love it like I should because of how just plain unbearable and annoying Sakura was. I liked the character direction of Shirou giving up on his dream to live more like an actual person, and I didn't mind him white-knighting someone. But why the fuck did it have to be Sakura, the most unlikeable, whiny, senpai-notice-me poor victim girl?

She was such a stupid selfish cunt. The only parts of HF I liked were the parts where Sakura was getting shit on or when Shirou was white-knighting Illya. If it had all been about Illya I'd be able to love HF. But unfortunately she's the one Shirou's stuck giving up his dream for.

Lion King is a full god. Lancer Saber is the one who is sightly divine.

Describe what you think that means and why you think it's a fanfic, because it doesn't seem like you understand what that was about.

I'm not him. Just saying that Lion King was a fully legit god who sort of just wandered into the Camelot order and started shit.

You take Type-Moon too seriously. If it weren't for the fact that you're actually familiar with Tsukihime and its spinoffs I would have expected you to be a Zero secondary.

Even if you aren't you're clearly the same sort of cancer.

>muh Camelot
Is this the new go-to defense for /fgog/?

Quite the opposite. Goddess Rhon seems to be the hot new thing for people who hate FGO to complain about.

She got a happy ending. It's called Prisma.

Sounds like you just have shit taste.

Wormslut is shit taste though.

>the way Ahnenerbe is handled

Never, ever comes up in the main stories of these works. It's all metafuckery.

Like, remember in CCC where Gil's crotch beams light like the sun to ward off Bathery? That shit would have never fucking happened pre-2012. Even Extra, despite the flack it gets, had more dignity in general. Although, perhaps you could say Gil is the stupid gag character of CCC. I wonder.

>ASS 'N' TITTIES oh look a little bit of lore ASS 'N' TITTIES gilgamesh retcon ASS 'N' TITTIES ass 'n' titties is actually symbolically relevant to the mother goddess theme y'know ASS 'N' TITTIES nevermind that I don't actually care about anyone that much like I did in the first game ASS 'N' TITTIES god I just hate Kiara so much I want to pretend she doesn't exist but if I care too much then she wins god damn it

The actual problem with all the unfunny gag Servants and general silly gag shit is that it's gradually displaced the "real" content to the detriment of the quality of TM's published work. Okay, "quality" is somewhat subjective. Rather, the context of the Nasuverse has changed to something significantly different from what it used to be, shifting from something I enjoyed to something I generally just don't.

I do think in general everything has been dumbed down and made flashier and the powerlevel is higher than was originally intended, but I don't necessarily think this was a bad thing in all cases. The Tsukihime manga was better for being flashier and higher-powered. Changes to the UBW anime were all improvements. But the newer works all feel like they take it way too far and are full of ideas that are bad from the get-go no matter how you try to sell them.

For example:
And it's still retarded.

Nice meme.

What do you think of this article? Because you're the first person I've seen who dislikes CCC oneofepisodes.wordpress.com/2016/01/30/fateextra-ccc-a-love-story-a-story-of-love/

>Non canon shit

You seem like a mixture of autism and retarded.

What is so bad about WFD? It's the advent of the modern age snuffing out the last traces of widespread mysticism in mainstream culture.

Not every new Servant is Edison or Tesla. They're just the ones you hear about because they do change the landscape of the Nasuverse to some extent.

Like, Beowulf is just a guy who likes to punch shit who was also probably the first person to kill a dragon by himself.

If Prisma is non-canon, why is it in Grand Order now?

Prisma in GO doesn't acknowledge Zero in GO. How do you solve that inconsistency if you're going to be an autistic prick?

>Grand Order is canon
I would call you delusional but Nasu has probably told you guys it is because of all the retard bucks he could squees out of it

Prisma happened first in canon despite the fact that we got it second.

Melty Blood's new manga and Case Files both involve concepts from FGO.

No, you don't get it. I don't think you really -can- take Type-Moon seriously anymore. At least I can't, which makes me a little sad. Nasu just doesn't seem to put the amount of effort into the coherency of the setting that he used to, so why bother with something silly like powerlevels and whatnot? They don't mean much in the face of F/GO.

Like, it's cool if you like all of the new shit. I'm not going to call you a retard for liking what I don't like. There's value in stuff with a different flavor. My favorite flavor isn't being made anymore, but I'm not going to covet your enjoyment. That's not what I'm getting at.

What got you into TM, by the way?

So?
literally all of Nasus work have been under the same concept at some point, doesn't mean shit.
also
>Melty Blood's new manga
WHAT?
SINCE WHEN?

Answer the fucking question, you autistic sperg. What is incoherent about what? What was the problem with WFD or Rhon?

>My favorite flavor isn't being made anymore
Honestly Case Files seems like it'd be up your alley, but hardly anyone seems to care enough to even summarize it, let alone translate it.

>What got you into TM, by the way?
Tsukihime's manga and Melty Blood.

>SINCE WHEN?
Since January. Again, no one gives enough of a shit to TL it.

Volume 1's translation just finished

>Again, no one gives enough of a shit to TL it.
Is it actually something new or are they just doing a retelling in manga form like Havens Feel?

It's a new story that has connections to FGO. I'm not entirely sure what it's about, though.

Hammurabi could do something dumb like force people to follow rules.

Zero's fight scenes were generally shit. It was always the original VN that was known for its cuhrazy fights.

ahhh its good to see a gentleman with taste

The following are undebatable facts flat-out confirmed by the omnipotent narrator that no, has never been from an unreliable narrator.
>Sakura does not care about other people's problems
>Sakura does not understand a single thing about Shirou yet is still desperate, seriously desperate, for his dick
>Sakura pretends to have a split personality to justify her selfishness, bloodthirst, and angst, but really it's all her making excuses to make herself feel better
>She tries to murder Shirou, Rin, and Rider, 3 people that have spent the last 2 weeks doing everything possible to help and save her despite how much they're sacrificing to do so
>Sakura does not care whatsoever about any of this and only acknowledges her actions after thinking she murdered her sister

Seriously, she treats Shirou like her savior and hero but really, Sakura does not know a single important thing about him. Hell, did she ever even talk to him once about the fire?

Think what you will of the mobage but it at least gave Hassan a good showing.

> Mongrel! Those swords are fucking patented!

Be honest Sakurafags: If she was a normal member of the party like Rin or Saber and wasn't a clingy abused rape victim desperately in need of protecting, would you actually give a shit about her? If she wasn't the poor lonely suffering girl, would you really still focus on her?

Because it seems like any poor victim girl can make fans if she's lonely and needy enough, and only "you" can help her be happy.

Stop replying to yourself just because nobody is taking the bait.

Since multiverses have been confirmed to be a thing, they could just pull an SNK and do a soft reboot in a new universe while still making stuff for the original universe.

I think F/SN got a reboot with RN. Though Tsukihime really does need that remake, it has not aged well.

Mahoyo translation when?

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree. It's just that garbage like Caesar make easy targets. And it's just like... that's Caesar in the Nasuverse from now on. That's what we're stuck with. Well, I definitely wouldn't complain if there was an AU Caesar redesign for a more serious work, granted.

The tragedy of F/GO for me is kinda like the tragedy of Tamamo in that there's nuggets of very nice ideas in there which are drowned out by the insipid pandering bullshit. Well, I say that, but if I'm being honest I don't really like the idea of Chaldea and its implications to begin with. It's kind of a relatively vigorously justified excuse to throw in a fuckton of new Servants with character designs by popular artists.

Like, it's a mobage, guys, come on. It's a fanservice engine. Although, given that, maybe I'm the one who's wrong for hoping for more.

>Case Files seems like it'd be up your alley

Sakamoto does do a lot better than Higashide in my opinion, I've gotta say, though that may just be a factor of writing a more mystery-based story vs. a more grand action-oriented story. He also has a background in researching the occult concepts that give the Nasuverse a bit more depth (although in a lot of cases in Nasu's own work it's mostly namedropping). But then concepts like Nasu's treatment of Rhongomyniad rear their head and there's a couple places where I'm a bit iffy. But that's mostly nitpicking. I actually think Gray is my favorite Seibaface.

>Tsukihime's manga and Melty Blood.

My nigga.

They're like Gaia's Avengers that barely ever get any action.

In F/GO it's explained that the whole heroic spirit summoning system is more like an emergency button for humanity, calling back its best to protect the world from whatever the great crisis is.

ToH is where they chill out until an apocalypse is going to happen. inb4
>F/GO
>canon

Top 3 :

Archer vs Shirou
Kotomine vs Shirou
Rin vs Sakura

Where do you guys find the translations for all the LNS/expanded material and shit? Can you all read moonrunes? I can only find scraps of translated material and it's all incomplete or just a scrap. Can't find any other Fate stories fully translated even with my best googling. And I need a Fate fix to keep me steady until the HF movies.

the F/Z climax fight was poorly adapted in the Anime.

Even the audio drama was a far better adaptation of that fight.

>Rin vs Sakura
So underrated, so often overlooked, so fucking good.

youtube.com/watch?v=2I5S-fKKB8c

>That's what we're stuck with

Do you have any complaint beyond "fat"?

More importantly, do you have any actual point to make that isn't just being incredibly overlong about saying "waahhh wahhh I don't like it"? You have replied to absolutely no one who asked you to substantiate anything you say.

>In F/GO it's explained that the whole heroic spirit summoning system is more like an emergency button for humanity, calling back its best to protect the world from whatever the great crisis is.

We've known that since F/SN, though. That's basically the entire point of Counter Guardians.

>For example, everything having to do with BB's Alter Egos

They exist in the Mooncell. What's the problem with them hacking the Matrix?

>Look at fucking Rhongomyniad suddenly becoming a linchpin of the fucking world in Garden of Avalon and onward.

So?

>Look at Mahoyo, even, where Touko's and Aoko's capabilities are not even consistent with their past appearances so that their stupid cunt powerlevels can be wanked harder.

That Touko had never shown up in any work ever before, and Aoko had never done absolutely anything beyond popping around in Shiki's flashbacks and fucking around in Re-ACT.

That's a lot of blabber to say absolutely nothing.

I think learning Japanese is almost mandatory at this point. This is a fanbase that hasn't gotten an 8 hour kinetic VN that released in 2012 translated yet.

Yes, but CGs aren't called upon and "controlled" like Servants are. CGs clean up messes after they happen, they don't appear before it to prevent it. That's exactly what Archer was so pissy about. He doesn't save people anymore, he cleans up disaster zones.

>Do you have any complaint beyond "fat"?

Do I need one? It's a stupid design. F/GO has a lot of those.

>do you have any actual point

I mean, if you don't think I've spoken any actual points, that's fine. Your opinion isn't actually important to me, believe it or not.

Touko hardly did anything in battle in KnK, and most of what she did in Mahoyo is fairly consistent with what she does in KnK. The only really new thing is her Mystic Eyes but even that was sort of alluded to way back in Tsukihime.

Lugh is new too but he's a familiar so that still isn't inconsistent with anything.

Then why are CGs even needed if Servants are supposed to stop crisis from even happening?

Haven't read Mahoyo, why does Touko have mystic eyes? I thought there could only be 1 per universe, hence why Nasu had stated Tsukihime and Rakkyo take place in different universes.

Regular Mystic Eyes, not Death Perception.

Not all mystic eyes are MEoDP. Illya and Rider have mystic eyes too.

>Do I need one?

Given that you spent the last hour writing marathonic cryfests, I wondered if you had any actual points to make rather than treating this as your personal livejournal.

>>Sakura does not care about other people's problems
>literally pities Shinji of all people despite how he treats her
>>Sakura does not understand a single thing about Shirou
It was precisely because she understood Shirou so well that she feared him finding out about her situation, since she knew he would try to save her and get himself killed like Kariya.
>>Sakura pretends to have a split personality to justify her selfishness, bloodthirst, and angst
Not really far from the truth, considering it was being amplified far beyond usual levels at the time by Angra Mainyu's influence. She also wasn't trying to justify herself as much as she was trying to play the role of a villain that had been forced on her.
>>She tries to murder Shirou, Rin, and Rider
She tells Shirou and Rin to run away to safety on the final night, and even after they refuse, she wants Shirou and Rider to be unharmed as long as they don't try to get past Saber. Rin, on the other hand, had been openly rejecting and trying to murder Sakura as soon as she learned the truth about her, even though Sakura repeatedly tried to reach out to her.
>only acknowledges her actions after thinking she murdered her sister
Having all evils of the world fucking with your brain does that to you, not to mention that Rin was out to murder Sakura too, so it was justified self-defense from her perspective.

Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know a thing.

Even within Tsukihime and KnK we have Ciel, Arc, and Fujino.

Because they're not. Read the VN.

You're either him replying to himself, or a fucking retard falling for obvious bait. Either way, fuck off.

Who's not?

I thought you sounded like a secondary, but now it's confirmed.

Are you going to spout memes or answer the question?

Oh look, a white knight rejecting all her faults. As per the usual. I get it, she got raped and abused so you need to defend her honor. Keep at it brave knight.

Except for Ryougi that IS romantic, did you even read her lines?

>Rin asspulls a win against Angry Manjew Sakura

It was fucking shit.

Mystic Eyes, Primordial Runes, using the familial crests of other Magi. Touko is definitely stronger in Mahoyo than in Rakkyou.

I wasn't baiting, everything I typed was a fact. This is why I sigh every time someone tries to defend her trying to murder everyone that cares about her, among other things. It's flat out stated and undebatable that she is acting, pretending, and making excuses for her cruelty and selfishness. Unless you think you know better than the narrator, you cannot refute these facts.

Yet you faggots will still rush to her aid anyways. It's rather pathetic.

Hell Shiki himself has two mystic eyes.

Looks like the thread is filling up with the Sakura defense force now that she's getting shit.

Shirou gain the physical abilities of the original owner of the blade he projects.

>asspulls

Sakurafag pls

>calling back its best to protect the world from whatever the great crisis is.

>CGs clean up messes after they happen

>Sakura kills and eats Gilgamesh
>Rin wins with shitty sword

Nah fuck off

Any sword he sees is automatically placed in UBW.

>muh powerlevels

Go watch Dragon Ball or something

The bad end to it is the best part.

What's not to get? Servants/normal heroic spirits are summoned like police when there's a bomb threat. CGs are the guys that clean up the corpses and execute the bomber if the police failed.

Heroic spirits jump in to prevent catastrophes from happening in the first place. CGs clean up the damage of catastrophes after they've happened if the security system failed.

Rin is not a Virgin?

Do idiots not realize it's impossible for those two scenes to come after each other? That chain isn't possible.

Nope, not anymore.

Who did she fuck?

Zelretch fight happens after you decide whether or not to execute Saber. You don't see the fight if you don't kill Saber. It just goes to that bad end.

Try harder, desperate Sakurafags. Can't comprehend points stated by the narrator or remember chronology.

I'd think that if such a powerful system was built around preventing crisis that, you know, it would actually prevent crisis.

Old men.

>They exist in the Mooncell.

Admittedly it's less of a problem for the overarching setting for that reason, but it speaks to the powercreep, which is the only thing I'm pointing to. Why care about powerlevels when Nasu is consistently demonstrating that he's going to write whatever absurd bullshit into a story he wants?

>So?

It'd over-the-top. It sets a terrible precedent.

>That Touko had never shown up in any work ever before
>say later on in that same post: "Nasu had already long stopped giving a fuck about the internal consistency of the setting and decided he could just go "WHOOPS ALTERNATE REALITY" whenever the fuck he wanted."

For Aoko, her overall degree of power output at a certain significant stage was actually increased from what the manuscript called for because of an art decision (some would say fumble).
Source: tsukikan.com/misc/4gamer-interview-with-mahou-tsukai-no-yoru-staff.html

It goes to show how haphazard the application of powerlevels really are in the setting and how something as simple as art direction can change the original scenario. It doesn't matter in the end: the protagonist is going to win because they're the protagonist, it's simple as that, and it's all the more obvious in Mahoyo because it lacks Dead Ends to show all the times when Aoko could just get fucked.

Shirou in F/SN constantly goes up against horrible odds and in a lot of cases he only barely gets by - it's almost contrived how often it happens, in fact. Of course, we're all aware the Nasuverse runs on multiverse theory and are privy to all of the times where he just eats shit outright. Aoko doesn't have the benefit of this and Mahoyo suffers for it, at least in my opinion.

Except the Heroic Spirits are never actually summoned to do shit.

It's always Counter Guardians.

for money?

sakura is a bitch

>using the familial crests of other Magi.
In that case it actually seems more in her character to give those up at some point between Mahoyo and KnK, when she's less adamant about just killing her sister and more about proving herself superior.

Fuck off.

>not seeing interludes in a bad end means they can't have happened
What are you even mad about?

No, Rin is the bitch. Sakura is the slut.

Rin's slept with more people than Sakura though.

>Sakurafags crawling out of the worm pit

Time to leave the thread

The only thing that changes in the battle between Rin and Sakura depending on your choices is whether Sakura is able to summon Saber to her side, so I'm pretty sure it played out largely the same until Rin went for the final blow and got cut down by Saber.

Harambe
Kek
And Chuck Testa all have a shot.

People being the operative word.

>Sakurafags
>calling Sakura a slut
It's just common banter knowledge that Rin and Sakura are called bitch and slut respectively, no need to get upset.

Kill yourself you underage shit.

I didn't mean to quote but I'm referring to posts like these

You mean like in F/HA?

Grow thicker skin, that shit's legitimately hilarious. The irony of that bad end makes it one of the most memorable ones, up there with SLH and MoS.

>implying memes won't be our grand myths

Why can't Rinfags and Sakurafags be more like Rin and Sakura and actually love each other?

>Admittedly it's less of a problem for the overarching setting for that reason

No, it's completely no problem for the setting for that reason, because it's happening inside a world with a entirely new set of possibilities. Full stop. It does not speak, whisper or mumble to anything. What they can do does not apply to the world outside the Mooncell.

>It'd over-the-top. It sets a terrible precedent.

Can you actually formulate a sentence that actually expresses an idea more eloquently than "it's bad"? WHY is it over-the-top? WHAT precedent does it set? What the fuck are you talking about?

>For Aoko, her overall degree of power output at a certain significant stage was actually increased from what the manuscript called for because of an art decision

So fucking what? Saber is a girl because Takeuchi wanted to draw a girl in armor and Hisui and Kohaku exist because he wanted maids. It's not like the story was patched after the fact, the manuscript just went through changes as they developed things.

>some would say fumble

You would say. What, did the artist trip and accidentally write something too grand which made Nasu mistype a scene?

>It goes to show how haphazard the application of powerlevels really are in the setting and how something as simple as art direction can change the original scenario.

See above. Bitching about this while acting like "TYPE MOON was so much better in the past" is laughably retarded.

This is the stupidest possible argument you could have made. Is that literally all you're whining about? That changes were made mid-writing and that this must mean everything is fucked?

That would be gross and taboo user.

I was apathetic towards GO up until that KnK event. Then he butchered Ryougi's character and retconned Tsukihime by saying MEoDP can't cut through Gaia.

>Touko is definitely stronger in Mahoyo than in Rakkyou.

So who gives a shit? It's not the same character.

Okay, I finally got around to reading this.

>“Nasu is sexist omg!!1!”

Yeah, those people are faggots who've never played the game.

>it's like Utena

Utena is fine, even sorta overlaps with Fate's analysis of heroism to a degree given the concept of saving someone for one's own gratification vs. supporting them to save themselves, but Utena's aesthetic doesn't belong in the Nasuverse. Get the fuck out Ikuhara.

More pertinently, cribbing Utena doesn't necessarily make your story good. That in mind, I don't actually think CCC's story is terrible, I just don't think it's that good or interesting, either.

>hurrdurr love

The characters are unsympathetic caricatures who explore the theme in a blunt and uninteresting fashion. The allegories are so forceful that they become weak. The attempt to be DEEP by throwing out a ton of nudity is so two-faced it's laughable.

>hurrdurr impermanence

Welcome to eastern philosophy. Hell, welcome to Heraclitus.

>even if you’re powerless when you face death alone, when you have someone with you, there’s nothing to be scared of

Listen up, user. If you want meaning in your life, go get it from Thomas Ligotti, not Nasu Kinoko.

>Kinoko Nasu can write something that goes beyond what he wrote in Fate/stay night

kek

Sounds like this dude is really in love with this game, huh?

>It goes to show how haphazard the application of powerlevels really are in the setting and how something as simple as art direction can change the original scenario.

This was written unironically by someone trying to act like an old man telling kids to get off his Nasuverese yard. If you were any less self-aware, you'd blink out of existence.

Where does that article say anything that would suggest anything was "haphazard"?

Masu vs. Galahad

>The attempt to be DEEP
Do they actually do this in CCC? I remember Extra didn't have any of that shit.

>The attempt to be DEEP by throwing out a ton of nudity is so two-faced it's laughable.
Are you saying depth and eroticism are mutually exclusive?

Because unless you're a white knight desperate for a maiden to defend, there is nothing likeable about "Senpai Please Notice Me" Sakura.
Yes, exactly like that. Does anyone seriously like her when she's a moe moe kyun kouhai and Shirou's glorified slave, seemingly incapable of free thought? Nothing really changes about her raw personality in F/HA. She's the same wheezy clingy passive-aggresive doormat as before.

>kotominator just sits there trowing poo at shiru
good work deen

>What they can do does not apply to the world outside the Mooncell.

It does apply to the stories they're actually trying to tell, however. Which have all become powercreeped to hell.

>WHY is it over-the-top? WHAT precedent does it set? What the fuck are you talking about?

Seriously, calm down, user. I'm really not trying to make you mad. Caps are unnecessary.

The idea that if a particular NP is destroyed, the boundary between the two layers of the world will be undone is absurd. It's too much. It sets a terrible precedent because it expands the scale of the setting in a way that is incongruous with the previously established scope. It comes paired with the introduction of an inordinate amount of things which are the specialist special thing to ever do something special for little reason other than to powerlevel wank. There are too many things that are EX now. When everything is EX, the concept loses its impact.

So who cares anymore? I certainly don't. The scale is completely out of wack.

>What, did the artist trip and accidentally write something too grand which made Nasu mistype a scene?

If Aoko's degree of power was already established one way (in Meltan) and the scene was originally meant to convey a similar degree of power so as to remain consistent and then the artist fucks up and makes it too grand and they're on a deadline so Nasu just decides to rewrite some shit, how does that not show you that the powerlevels are kind of pointless? It's all just a story. Nasu doesn't give a shit. The person who'll win is the person he wants to win no matter how farfetched.

I shouldn't even need to prove this.

>"TYPE MOON was so much better in the past"

You are under a very different impression of what I'm saying from what I'm actually saying. I -am- saying things are different; that's about it. I didn't make an outright judgment call about it. I went out of my way to say "quality is somewhat subjective" above.

>The attempt to be DEEP by throwing out a ton of nudity is so two-faced it's laughable
Someone's clearly never heard of Realta Nua. Plus, having sex scenes in something isn't a red card for it being a shallow story.

I'm not even a Sakuafag but you're completely off-base about her character.

Thanks for explaining why.

But she is proven to be passive-aggressive multiple times, she's always suffered the
>Senpai please notice me
problem, and she waits on Shirou constantly like a puppy. It's pathetic. How am I off-base?

wat does ccc have to do with realta nua

Just another example of a case where you're full of shit

Not whatsoever. By the same token, attempting to use eroticism to convey deeper meaning or subtext isn't always that impressive, especially when there's a definite dual-motive of wanting fanservice in your product.

Granted, "DEEP" is a buzzword and I shouldn't use it even when disparaging something. Further, fanservice does not automatically cancel out any meaning your story might possess. I just find it hilarious regardless.

She DOESN'T want Shirou to notice her. She wants to hide her traumatic history and her awful home life from Shirou as much as possible. She's terrified of her relationship with Shirou getting any deeper than the surface-level slightly-more-than-just-friends that it is at the beginning of the VN, because she's so convinced that he'll reject her if he does.

She does have a passive-aggressive side, though. I'll admit that.

Why is Realta Nua relevant? Because it lacks sex scenes? Fuck, I don't care about the sex scenes one way or the other. What made you think otherwise?

youtube.com/watch?v=2EMjMaZKpcQ

>It does apply to the sto

No, stop. This is just bullshit justification for why you feel something that does not alter the setting is grounds to bitch about things altering the setting.

>The idea that if a particular NP is destroyed, the boundary between the two layers of the world will be undone is absurd.

Why?

>incongruous with the previously established scope

The shift between ages has always been there. Pegasus is summoned from the other world. Nrvnqsr had shit inside him that cannot exist in the current realm. The two worlds have always been there. This WAS the previously established scope, the stories never focused on them beyond backstory. The rest of this sentence is you repeating "it's too much, it's bad, it's wrong" over and over.

>was already established one way

She does fucking nothing in Melty Blood. She's never part of any serious story. There is no story or allusion to her actual skills. Melty Blood never even explained what the fuck it is that she does. NOTHING was established nor there was anything to "remain consistent" about.

Where the hell are you getting this shit? Is all of this bullshit coming from his "On my side, I can only respond by changing the script."? That is all? Nasu saw something that looked flashier than he originally pictured, liked it, and so shifted a few things, and you came up with this idiotic story about how the artist "fucked up" when making a full-fledged multimedia animation scene and, in some crisis mode, Nasu was "forced" to alter something fundamental about his script? Where is this stuff about him "fucking up" or deadlines being involved?

>how does that not show you that the powerlevels are kind of pointless?

Because it doesn't you insane autist. Do you think stories simply manifest in one single inviolable first draft? Also, nice job ignoring the maids and Arturia thing.

>I shouldn't even need to prove this.

Yes you fucking do.

I love how he couldn't figure out why Rider saved Shirou and deliberately ignored the existence of the Normal End. A step up from the previous video where he couldn't wrap his head around servants functioning more like RPS than DBZ powerlevels.

>Senpai Please Notice Me
>glorified slave, seemingly incapable of free thought
You reek of Tumblr. Please leave.

Stop shilling your shitty channel.

>If Aoko's degree of power was already established one way (in Meltan)

No it wasn't.

>and the scene was originally meant to convey a similar degree of power

Says who?

Reality:

>Nasu:
>In reality the development of 「Mahoyo」 consists of cycles of someone raising the bar, which in turn lights up the spirits of everyone else. The sudden burst from Tsukuri was part of that cycle. The result was something along the lines of "Monoji's body won't be able to take it!"
>Koyoma:
>It's the same with Aoko shooting those beams, in the original design there were 4. As proof, the image in the gallery only has 4 beams. But in reality, when we took apart that image, somehow we ended up with 8 beams... I was shocked when I first saw it (laughs).
>Nasu:
>Same with the lines in the magic circle. But no one can say anything after seeing that quality. On my side, I can only respond by changing the script.

Your deranged fucking fantasy:

>the artist fucks up and makes it too grand and they're on a deadline so Nasu just decides to rewrite some shit

Yeah. You're nuts.

The white knight VN trope is pretty terrible though, thankfully Nasu avoids it in HF by having Rin save Sakura instead of Shirou.

Shirou vs Archer DEEN of course

What. Is THAT what this was all about? There are 8 beams instead of 4, so clearly this must mean Nasu doesn't care anymore and the narrative is all fucked? All that ranting over something like that? Is that guy a complete fucking autist?

What are we supposed to believe, that Aoka has magical lasers or something? Boy, I hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

Well, it looks like a majority disagrees with me. Nothing I can do about that.

HF fist fight

If this shit didnt give you an errection right here, you are homosexual.
youtube.com/watch?v=T7OYPb3fTP0

The two of them literally beating eachother down until they couldnt come at one another really made it after all of the shit in heavens feel

Shiro vs Kotomine Kirei

It's not even a contest

Why are we even talking about Gilgamesh as a high tier servant? Artoria is now at Galactus level, so let's use her as the new barometer.

>I think Enkidu mentions that even Ea isn't as powerful as it was in life when they fight.
Strange Fake?
Is this some kind of bullshit similar to Excalibur's seals? God, I can't wait to see the wank in the last chapter of FGO.

What happens next?

Nasu always wanted to make a singular linear story for F/SN, but he couldn't find a way to make it work, so he made it a VN.

Granted, that's more or less what he did in the VN too.

We have the first few chapters already. Just wait bit by bit.

Not sure. I don't remember reading this in FSF.

Kotomine having a Sonic R fight against True Assassin while fingering Ilya is top.

>imagining Odysseus's trickery backed up with independent action

Even more broken than Eye of the Mind (True)

Is there anyone even close to being as much of a top tier bro as this guy?

More like top tier cringe and adhd

i legit don't know whats more depressing, illya's part there or kiritsugu's entire goal in life as he explained there.
god i can relate.

>Is there anyone even close to being as much of a top tier bro as this guy?
muh nigga Dumas

Dumbass?

youtube.com/watch?v=rIDqr9V3UdU
Last Interlude.

faggot?

You never watched the Shawshank Redemption?

youtube.com/watch?v=K9p9Yr1U2KA

Sparks Liner High

The massive citywide team up in HA.

Even Gil got in on that shit.

By the end of HF, she makes Saber her sex slave, rips her own heart to kill a worm, threatens to rape her bitchy sister, and has more raw power than almost anything else.

I don't care about wormslut, but Dark Sakura a best. A BEST FAGGOT.

>makes Saber her sex slave

Sakura doesn't swing that way.

She wasn't that strong. Gil jobbed as usual, Lancer had the usual curse, and Saber did the Saber thing where she gets wrecked for some unknown reason.

I know True End is obviously whats going to be adapted for the HF movies, but which ending would you rather see?

>tfw no Normal End with a separate Sparks Liner High OVA

The true end of HF is Sakura enjoying her harem of Saber, Rin, and Rider while the world is engulfed in flame. Rin left a brainwashed footslave for her sister.

Prove me wrong faggot. Oh wait... You can't.

Sakura doesn't like girls. She's only interested in the dick.

Superhero ending

Normal End would be too depressing for anime watchers to handle. It fits with the overall theme of the route but everyone expects some kind of happy ending so you can't just do bitter sweet endings like in Tsukihime anymore.

The preparation of the Sword is a major plotpoint of HF. It is not an asspull.

Considering people can see the spear "bend" in order to reach the target, there is some time. It might not be enough, but it's not instantaneous.

I never realized Sakura had the same dress than Arcueid

>user comes out of the woodwork
>points to legitimate reasons why the quality of TM's works is declining
>grand order newfags defend senseless powerlevels anyway
>call dissenter an autist despite him being perfectly nice the whole time

wew nasufags