Who's your favorite villain?

Memes aside, he's my favorite Berserk character. I like to joke around with the "did nothing wrong" but he's a villain after all, a really good and complex villain.

He's wrong. Evil is always the loser.

This is such a good essay. I too, hate when people consider Dio and DIO different characters. That means disregarding his growth and development. To me, he is one of the best villiains in manga, but most people can't see beyong the memes.
This being said, Araki is just great at writing villains, Kira and Valentine are proof of that.

That fucking ending, man.

Thought of this too. Good taste m8. Are you hyped for season 3?

>Are you hyped for season 3?
I only heard about it a week or two ago and I am extremely hyped. Flaming skull man looks like he'll be fun.

I love how his eyes look dead.

He's a perfect illustration of that description.

this

As someone who dropped JJBA in the third part this made me realize that I should give it another chance. At least for the Dio shenanigans

The one you knew for a fact was a villain but you'd fooled yourself into believing he was your friend.

>If you look in the real world you'll notice that the truly strong people try not to be evil
Only evil apologist would say that.

>truly strong people aren't evil
>evil people are flawed and weak
>evil apologist

SC is kinda boring but DIU is far better

Honestly, I think the person who wrote this essay is speculating too much on certain things (like the finer details of his life with Dario) but he is on to something with others, like how he admires stubbornness and rebelliousness in others - the only reason he didn't kill Hol Horse after his many fuckups is the initiative he showed in threatening to kill him.

My wording was bad.
I meant Rotschild apologist.

the best

Johan is the best villain.

The thread is over

She's not even the best villain in her own series.

Fuck off

Fuck off lamb

Yuck, disgusting
You go to back /jp/
And you go... don't know. Somewhere else where I can't see you.

I think I'll stay here and gush about how Johan is such a perfect villain.

But I'm the perfect villain. Do I have to destroy the seacats completely for you to obey me? You know I can. Now leave.

Hahaha. You know the only thing I value is myself. A threat like that won't do anything to convince me.

Damn you. I was hoping you would hate me

No. Most "supervillians" in history actually approach life as an Absurd Hero. Failure to understand this is partly why their existence is consistently enabled by the worker bees and moralists of society.

Then there's no reason to destroy the seacats anymore. Boring.

You're not trying hard enough.
I'm also done recording my Monster analysis and have started editing the video together. It's looking pretty good honestly.

Enjoyment is its own satisfaction.
Although I think the mod banned the guy who made the lewd edits?

Oh, great. dislike
Meh, who cares about him? You were having fun thanks to him and I didn't like that.

I liked making edits with him.

He was probably banned for a day or three. It's not like I kill him or something so I don't feel bad.
I know. That's exacly why I trash him.

You sad = Me happy
The End

Bullying the bullies is always fun.

Hence why it's also fun to bully you.

Yeah but it turns out towards the end that Beatrice isn't a villain but a very tragic heroine.

The true villain of Umineko is this menacing cat.

Char is not a villain. Even if some people say so

JOHN
WAYNE
VERCINGETORIX

>Who's your favorite villain?

I don't have an absolute favourite but off the top of my head, some of my favourites are:

Bernkastel from Umineko
Junko Enoshima from Danganronpa
Johan Liebert from Monster
Yuuki Terumi from Blazblue
Kotomine Kirei from Fate/Stay Night / Fate Zero

It's funny how three out of five in your list have been mentioned in this thread.

True but she was THE villain for 4 or 5 VNs/manga books.

Well she was also the best villain and only one with personality. Bern is just muh traumas and BF while lamb is little better

Dio's pretty much his earliest villain though. It'd make sense that this is the conclusion he might come to after writing him

Some idiot made a thread for your kind. Why don't you go there? It's been awhile since I don't see one on Cred Forums. I promise to not kill it.

Kira

Yeah I did check this thread before posting those 5 so it reminded me. I did say it was off the top of my head. Junko was there because I'm watching DR3 atm and Terumi I just recently saw the latest Blazblue opening.

>His motivation is one of the stupidest motivations for someone to do something
>Perfect villain
People like you are why the overrated shit meme started

So Dakki will always be my favorite "villain"

Stay buttblasted

>implying you even understand Johan
Do tell, what was his motivation?

>muh dead inside edgelord

Give me a fucking break, what a boring character.

No shit, Sherlock. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the ones who made those threads
Hehehehe. I'm not mad, are you mad??

The root cause of everything was his issues with his mother, nothing else ever affected him to the degree of his inner conflict towards her. This makes him a whiny retard because the whole thing is he was saved by his mother and didn't see the massacre and want traumatized. He was all "w-what if she didn't mean to save me?!" He experienced no mental trauma to the degree of Nina and yet he fucking CRACKED mentally.

His reason for doing everything was that and that is an objectively stupid reason.

Don't get me wrong. During her time as the villain in the first half of Umineko. Beatrice was superb and vastly entertaining huge props to her JP VA for doing such a good job as her.

Lamda was a "Who's side are you on?" character who just liked to play around and have some fun, until the final episode where she changed and decided to help Battler and then got BTFO by Featherine. So she was mildly interesting.

Bernkastel for me succeeds the most as the villain because whilst Beatrice was more entertaining. What Bernkastel did was truly malicious and evil to the point even Battler got triggered and starting beating the shit out of her despite being a ladies' man.

Oh, god dammit. Thanks, idiot. Now the idiot is not going to stop weeping like an idiot, you idiot.

Oups

S2 was so shit next to S1.

Because I said the truth?

>The root cause of everything was his issues with his mother
Exactly what I thought, you know nothing. How typical.

I'll give you two hints.

>''I am you and you are me''
-Johan pointing to Nina.

>There’s nothing special about being born. Not a thing. Most of the universe is just death, nothing more. In this universe of ours, the birth of a new life on some corner of our planet is nothing but a tiny, insignificant flash. Death is a normal thing. So why live? What is your reason for living?
- Johan talking to a child before he goes to the Red Light district.

His mother was what broke him, it's not his motivation.
All you've done is say that you don't understand and claim that it's retarded.

You know what's funny? Monster is exactly like Umineko. The mystery doesn't give you the answer at the end and everyone flips their shit.

Hehe, I like you... See? I told you. He's annoying.
I never understood that kind of attitude. I actually like that types of endings. I think it amplified the story in many ways. Well, you're not going to shut up now so I leave you. Bye-bye.

It's like someone calling a work they don't understand pretentious.
The last thing he remembers is the final reveal by Johan about his mother, so he forgot EVERYTHING else that happened throughout the rest of the story.
You should've been there when ep 8 of Umineko came out. Everyone was endlessly bitching.

>His mother was what broke him, it's not his motivation.
They are one and the same you fucking idiot and YOU just proved it.

> There’s nothing special about being born. Not a thing. Most of the universe is just death, nothing more. In this universe of ours, the birth of a new life on some corner of our planet is nothing but a tiny, insignificant flash. Death is a normal thing. So why live? What is your reason for living?
This all came from his stupid insecurity that "maybe mom meant to save Nina not me!" He fucking tried to play nihilist Hitler literally because his mom saved and that sent him on an existential crisis. Johan is a bad character and the entire ending if Monster drags the whole series down with how everything gets ruined. Johan did everything because he was a self obsessed manchild who couldn't tell if he was mommy's favorite or not. The ending intentionally points out he is still the pathetic, broken child that Tenma saved at the start which is why he saved him.

There is a reason Urasawa is known for writing shit endings. Literally his best ending was Pluto and that ended so abruptly it have me whiplash.

But you are going to try and commit mental gymnastics to admit this because your head is so far up your own ass you literally responded like a 15 year old who has "figured it out" by talking down to me for pointing out Johan has stupid motivations.

>The mystery doesn't give you the answer at the end and everyone flips their shit.
Everything is painfully spelled out at the end you dip. The only thing they leave up in the air is "was it right to save Johan?"

It's their own fault, but is not only laziness. Some people have the bad habit of hyping something they like to impossible levels. They put it there, very high in the sky, and later there's only deception left. I don't like to hype anything, I prefer to wait until the end to decide if I like something or not. The same is going to happen to Triantrology. Later, limp dick

>They are one and the same you fucking idiot and YOU just proved it.
They aren't. You saying they are doesn't make it so. His mother broke his innate sense of love.

>This all came from his stupid insecurity that "maybe mom meant to save Nina not me!
And this is where you obviously forgot that Johan was brainwashed at 511 Kinderhelm and that he had no recollection of what happened before that point?

His mother had nothing to do with his motivation. It was the spark that broke Johan, not his motivation.
You don't even know what is his motivation.

>because he was a self obsessed manchild who couldn't tell if he was mommy's favorite or not.
No, it's that the decision itself that broke him. It didn't matter if he was the favorite or not. The ambiguity was to throw Tenma into a loop.

>The only thing they leave up in the air is "was it right to save Johan?"
They don't even leave that up in the air. It was always right to save Johan. The rooftop game proves it.

Well, that's why I'm working on my Monster analysis so that people will finally understand the ending. I'm tried of people nothing thinking when the answer is obvious if people simply rewatched/reread it.

Because his core motivation was stupid, he was a character shrouded in mystery. The whole time stupid childish nihilistic outlook wasn't what made him interesting, it was what drove him to become like this. Then you find out and it's such a stupid fucking reason it turns the cold calculating, yet deranged sociopath into a pathetic man child. If course Johan was just part of it, the entire ending if Monster as a whole sucks and really is a sour end to the series. But that's to be expected from Urasawa, the man does so well every time but he can never stick the landing.

>he was a character shrouded in mystery.
>I didn't understand him therefore it's retarded
Every single time.

All the clues are there.

>And this is where you obviously forgot that Johan was brainwashed at 511 Kinderhelm and that he had no recollection of what happened before that point?
They literally explain in the tapes from Kinderheim that Johan was perfect and naturally took to the ideals. They say how he was already broken and was far more compatible than they expected. Every single thing roots from his mother, and just because you say so doesn't make it true. You either have no reading comprehension, are delusional, or can't understand the basic psychology that is explained in the story itself.

>Because his core motivation was stupid,
His motivation was not his mother.
His overall motivation was twofold. To make everyone in the world see as he does and fuck around with Tenma and Nina in a rooftop game.

I bet you don't even know why Johan points to his forehead.

>They literally explain in the tapes from Kinderheim that Johan was perfect and naturally took to the ideals.
Jesus.
Johan was perfect but they did brainwash him to find out more about him. Just because he was perfect does not mean they did not do experiments on him. The tape was his last memories and the reason why Johan dressed up as his sister to find it.
You didn't even pay attention.

Johan was genetically perfect AND the end result of what 511 was looking for to make perfect soldiers.

When Grimmer talks to the previous director, he tells him that 511's original experiment was to test love. But an unknown element fucked everything and changed the project into finding how to make perfect soldiers.

Jesus Christ your posts literally fell like chuunishit. I 100% understood Monster, its not particularly difficult to wrap my head around. You think yourself some one who is "enlightened" about this and look down on people because they must not have "gotten it". The ending is simple and literally wraps everything up to the point it's a flaw, the only time I see people who don't understand the ending of Monster is because they cannot understand the absolute stupidity of Johan doing everything because he was saved.

The people who don't understand the ending to Monster think Johan was the one who witnessed the massacre. The massacre is a fucking red herring, the people at Kinderheim think Johan must be snapped and broken to the degree he is because of the massacre he saw. Even the Nazis, if they heard the reason was some retarded complex he has because mom saved him, they would have laughed at how fucking stupid that is.

Your video is not going to bring any lights to someone who is blind, dear. You're just another man among millions with another opinion among millions. Your point of view about this is yours and only yours, just ten or fifteen minutes of video and later nothing. The only thing your doing is share your thougs, but you're not going to put end to nothing, because that's the point of that ending. You make your own opinion, your own truth and move on. I promise to wach your video, but that's just it. Now, for real, bye.

One of my favorite villains ever

Gosh, I want to learn to properly write english someday. Dreams...

>To make everyone in the world see as he does
This stems from him being a selfish manchild that has a complex and identity crisis based on his mother's choice. This is made extra pathetic by the fact that he waa the one saved.

You are trying to move goal posts but literally every last thing Johan did was motivated by his mother saving him and this really strange blend of victim complex and survivor guilt all wrapped up in selfloathing. This is WHY he comes up with the childish nihilistic view he has, this is WHY he prays especially on children and can relate to them, his emotional growth has been stunted severely from the day his mother saved him and he's an emotional wreck who does not have the personal skills to express himself in any manner but a destructive one. He's pathetic.

What, did Kiznaiver not go how you wanted?

>I 100% understood Monster
Apparently not.

>You think yourself some one who is "enlightened" about this and look down on people because they must not have "gotten it".
Sounds like projecting to me. I'm not looking down on anyone, I just want people to fucking understand Monster and Johan.

>the only time I see people who don't understand the ending of Monster is because they cannot understand the absolute stupidity of Johan doing everything because he was saved.
Or people like you who forgot that Johan was brainwashed at 511 Kinderhelm.

Here's a question for you, why did Johan scream when he read the picture book?

>The massacre is a fucking red herring, the people at Kinderheim think Johan must be snapped and broken to the degree he is because of the massacre he saw.
Very true, those are red herrings! This is exactly why people think it's ridiculous that the final twist is his real motivation when it's not. It's the instigator, not the motivation.

Yes yes, without love it cannot be seen.

>you're not going to put end to nothing, because that's the point of that ending
Not if I explain literally everything about Johan that gives context to the ending itself.
That user doesn't understand Johan at all.

>This stems from him being a selfish manchild that has a complex and identity crisis based on his mother's choice.
Incorrect.

You're thinking that the Johan when he was a child is the same as the grown up one.

>This is WHY he comes up with the childish nihilistic view he has, this is WHY he prays especially on children
VERY incorrect. He doesn't pray on children, he relates the most to them.

Three kids are playing outside.
One child is the villain and refuses to die.
Heh heh heh! I will destroy the world!
What will you do when you destroy the world?
Who cares!

And Johan smiles.

>You're thinking that the Johan when he was a child is the same as the grown up one.
The irony is you try to refute things I say then provide evidence
>VERY incorrect. He doesn't pray on children, he relates the most to them.
>Three kids are playing outside.
>One child is the villain and refuses to die.
>Heh heh heh! I will destroy the world!
>What will you do when you destroy the world?
>Who cares!
>And Johan smiles.
Johan has not progressed emotionally from the day his mother chose to save him. His personal growth has stunted and he is a large child in an adult world, as you stated yourself and have evidence he relates to children. This is because he still is one, as usually occurs in cases involving child abuse and abandonment issues. This is made extra retarded by the fact that he had abandonment issues when he specifically was saved and his sister was abandoned.

But there's no point in debating this. You literally keep contradicting your own flawed interpretation with every post but your head is so firmly wedged up your ass you keep moving goal posts and ignore obvious evidence you are saying yourself.

>provide evidence
Evidence in my favor* just to clarify

Hehe You don't need to be so hard to him. Can't you see Johan is his self insert and role model? His namesles name is a good example of that, he feel connected to him as a person because he is also an immature person.
Thanks for the laughs though. It was hilarious.

>Johan has not progressed emotionally from the day his mother chose to save him.
That's the point. He didn't progress emotionally because he lost everything. No memory, no name, no intimate connection to your own gender, no love from your parents and no joy in general with anything or anyone. Just absolutely nothing.

This was not done entirely from his mother, it's simply that his mother is what broke one of his last remaining connection to humanity.

That's why on the tape, it says that what he fears the most is forgetting about his sister.
Again, you're just stuck on this whole his mother is the ONLY THING that made Johan the way he is.

>Kiznaiver
Did you start watching animu this year?

Oh shit someone else who read Houshin Engi. And yes, Dakki is absolutly top tier.

Not my favorite, but she was pretty good.

Is Kosuna's arc still on hiatus?

I dislike her imouto unfair advantage.

What are you talking about? He's a true hero.

DIO is pretty much Heathcliff, who was also evil for the sake of being evil, but that didn't make him any less compelling.
In both of their cases being evil was that flaw. Because they're strong and capable but they focused on petty things, losing any hope for happiness.

I fucking love that they never really say that the aliens were wrong. Such a great show.

Touko did nothing wrong

>strength and power are the same

Don't you have to go back to school now summer has ended?

Satou best operator.

I haven't played Mahoyo but she didn't seem particularly villainous in KnK. Just amoral, par for the course in TM.

This better be a bait.

Homu. I have a thing for anti-heroes that get pushed too hard and turn into villains.

There's not a lot from Fate that I like other than cute Illya, but Kirei's descent in F:Z is fantastic. Best villain.

...

Kirei is overrated desu, Souren is the superior Johji villain.

Medusa (manga version obviously)

It is good advice but I don't feel like Araki should be the one delivering it. Which of his villains was flawed? Which of these flaws played a major role or lead to their demise? I can think of none. Dio was a superhuman. Aztec man was a god of fitness and ultimate life form. Gay priest was clever, was courageous, was dedicated, was eloquent, was in good health conditions. Kira was filled to the brim with wits and fashion sense. The only antagonist that could come as flawed was President Valentine in his first appearance, he was short and plump, obviously far from athletic, but then he became a total hunk for no reason, as if he could not be taken seriously as a threat if he was, actually, flawed.

nice fucking essays about chinese cartoon characters in this thread, you retarded fags

"Villain"

No he isnt. KnK might be superior to fate but not in villain department. Kirei has much more development and reasoning behind his actions unlike Souren

Don't think of just them, think of everybody.
Kira was impulsive, and if he hadn't had the compulsion to murder so many people, he would've had a simple life. Not to mention his OCD as well.

>Kira wasn't flawed because he had good fashion sense

his flaw was that his murders were an obsessive behaviour he couldn't control.

he was caught because he was compelled to keep murdering women and taking their hands, even though he lamented that he just wanted a peaceful life.

Coolest old man.

I think Souren's motivation for being a villain is one of the most fascinating ones I've seen. Kirei's whole nature vs. nurture thing is cool, but I feel like F/Z dropped the ball on his development a bit. And he's really only great as a villain for the very last part of the VN.

;_;

>Beatrice isn't a villain but a very tragic heroine.
This is what magic apologists actually believe. Fuck off.

I'm not going to read this entire thread so pardon if I repeat anyone's post, but I think the basic requirement of a good villain in anime/manga is that they're likable. That is to say, you can't help but sympathize with them (whether out of pity, agreeing with their worldview, their foil to the MC, etc). Charisma and/or good looks wouldn't hurt, and it would be best to humanize the character so your opinion of them is complicated but this must be done BEFORE they're defeated. It should be done while they're still in control and a real threat to the main character. All too often villains are given some sob story to ""justify"" their actions AFTER they're beaten to the ground and a bloody wreck. Fuck that to be honest family.

Of course.

>Villain

Sympathetic and understandable.
Utterly hate-able, irredeemable.

How many writers have actually achieved this?

In manga? Not many

>littlezas.tumblr.com/post/63591269148/meta-deconstructing-dio-jjba
>Okay, let’s say Speedwagon is right and there’s something fundamentally flawed about Dio from the beginning - he was born with something "off,” something that made him “worse” than other people. This is probably true and arguably self-evident
>arguably self-evident
>arguably
>self-evident
>argument
>self-evident
this is the dumbest line i have ever had the misfortune of reading in my entire miserable life. not being born would have been worth it to be spared this alone

The best

...

Kill yourself secondary.

I was reading Higurashi and Umineko even before your mother regretted spawning a little shit like you

>Implying Putin is evil
>Implying that honor doesn't go to Obama, who condones race riots and carpet bombed Syrian forces to help Isis.

That's what they all say when they're caught red-handed.

Beatrice-enablers should kill themselves just like him

Oddly enough that wasn't her fault, the director changed it.

Beato did nothing wrong user so theres no reason to apologize her actions

Deal with it desu

He'd be convicted and put into jail for a pretty long time with our standards. What he did is planning a multiple homicide in detail and ultimately allowing it to happen. Just because he ended up not pulling the trigger himself doesn't make it somehow okay. Deal with it.

>He
>implying

user please. She didnt commit murders,it was all magic and shit

>beato is not a boy! i'm straight i-i swear!
you're gay dude. the sooner you accept it the better

All of them expect Kars and Diavolo are awesome villains

Those tits dont lie user. Like Beato can make living things out of tupperware Im sure she can make her bone disappear

Not him but what do you mean that's a man?

>Kira
>Villain
Choose one

Real spoiler, don't see if you want to read Umineko
It's a tranny.

How? Aside from anime logic.

Girl in the picture is his fantazised self, more or less, there are a lot of fictional fictional characters in the story.
But he appears like this in the real world at one point too, so it's just a wig+fake tits+the fact he has no hormones because his dick got cut off.

Araki never said anything about "being evil for the sake of being evil". He was talking about power creep.

Bernkastel did nothing wrong!
>muh traumas
You fool look for the heart.

Dio>Jonathan>Jolyne>Pucci>Johnny>Joesph>Doppio>Kira>Jo2suke>Jotaro>Kars>Diavolo>ValentineJosuke>Giorno

>ValentineJosuke
*Valentine>Josuke

>Every villian has to have some kind of gay sob story to excuse their actions and make them a Deep Character.
Are you all fucking Medaka ripoffs that believe that everyone has a heart of gold inside or some shit? Do you really think that there aren't people who just want to fuck with people because it satisfies them in it's own right? You really think there is only on kind of conscience in the world?

I'd like to see a character, antagonist or protagonist, who doesn't do "bad" things because they were wronged or some shit, but who does "bad" things simply because their own logical thought led them to the conclusion that it was a good thing.

No "I'm evil but my intentions are to save the world/people/myself". How about someone who just does those things because he thinks people/the world themselves aren't worth saving/deserve to be destroyed?

Does everyone, even the antagonists, have to have some level of a hero complex to be a good character? Fucking really?
>inb4 edgy

You'd be actually right in the true sense of the word if I was saying this for the sole purpose of being edgy, but I'm.

>>Every villian has to have some kind of gay sob story to excuse their actions and make them a Deep Character.

Yeah I agree this thought of reasoning is retarded. Whilst its fine from time to time to have these type of villains not all of them need to have complex motives to justify their actions. In fact I'd say:

>people who just want to fuck with people because it satisfies them in it's own right.

Are the best type of villains.

Really, you haven't seen any of the millions of evil characters that are evil for the sake of it?
You probably think there are more villains with "deep motivations" because they stand out more. Or maybe you're just being contrarian. Did you not see the very first post in this thread?

There's nothing wrong with that in the first place anyways. If your hero is going on a long journey to conquer a threat that spans hundreds of chapters or novels then it's natural that the villain might have more in the way of motivations then meets the eye.

>just sign here and we can all live in the Golden Land, happily ever after
>all you have to do is acknowledge magic is real!
>SIGN IT BATTLER

OH SHIT

Kira is a straight up villain. Valentine you could at least try to justify not being a villain but Kira is a serial killer and kills pepole to satisfy his own urges.

>you haven't seen any of the millions of evil characters that are evil for the sake of it?
I'm not talking about being evil for the sake of it, I'm talking about being evil for a good reason, and that reason not being because the character was flawed/weak.

I want to see a character being evil because of their good characteristics, not because they are some one dimensional faggot, or had a rough past.

Basically, I want a story where the "evil" character IS strong, smart, clever, and is everything that we think a "good"person is, but they do acts which people find to be evil. Yeah, they can be flawed, but their flaws cannot be their reason for being an evil person.

....So this type of villain?

And I want this because I'm sick of these fairy tales where the good person is always good because they ARE good, and evil; people are evil because something happened to damage them in some way.

Basically, all these stories are always saying that good will always triumph because it is perfect and evil people will fail because if someone is evil they cannot be successful. It's the most stupid and childish kind of storytelling possible.

So I assume you want villainous characters that have chosen this path because they find it more entertaining and it has nothing to do with anything that happened to them in their childhood and you want the villains to win (Downer Ending)?

In that case I recommend Fate/Zero.

I unironically think this is exactly what you're looking for