Becuase I feel like making one thread today. Also, season 3 never.
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Where did the anime end? I might start reading the LN to kill some time.
The movie was garbage.
Thoughts on the new girl?
She's in the top 3 easy.
That's why it's not canon, user.
She seems good but it's still to soon to tell, remember what Tachibana did to Miku.
She never was good though.
I'll remain neutral for the next two volumes then decide. I won't be tricked again.
Yes, she was in vol 8-9.
Vol.15 has been translated to chinese already and thr first chapter hasn't even been translated to english yet. It's been a while since I wanted to read a date so bad.
Regarding Miku, Tachibana will probably keep messing with Miku's character and hopefully let Mukuro be relevant or at least stay the same.
Touch Tohka's Tohkas!
That doesn't make it less shit. Why would they choose to focus on anime original character that did jack shit even in her own movie?
[X] Touch Tohka's tohkas
Becuase Kadokawa fucked up big time with S2 and didn't dare to make a third season so they went for the original route.
Mayuri is an unfortunate character that did nothing wrong.
They better start working their asses off for a decent third season which of course won't fucking happen.
You sure took it hard uh?
>Mayuri is an unfortunate character that did nothing wrong
Because she didn't do anything, Mayuri was literally a plot device whose only purpose was to add some cheap drama and a reason to show the girls in spirit mode in this boring movie. What's worse is that I heard nips actually liked the movie, if that's the case then it shows how little the care about the actual quality of the series as long as there is a cute girl.
Can you really blame him? The author is the kind of person who gives cheap reasons to make characters irrelevant.
>Kurumi arc is next
Kotori and Mana arc after Kurumi's arc please.
She lost her chance to get some development and an inverse form in volume 12.
Kotori's date showed some development though, it showed a side we never saw before. Also for going through following the kill order.
Not really, it just showed she cares for Shidou which is nothing new. This is as new as Tohka stating she doesn't hate Origami.
Do LN raws get uploaded anywhere? Never tried looking for any before.
Well i did i just try google but i couldn't find shit.
It's not just about caring. We haven't seen such an elegant and mature side until volume 12 before. Kotori was foreshadowed to be serious and considered killing her Onii-chan when the time came, but she didn't go through with it in the end, so that's still development even if that outcome is predictable.
>We haven't seen such an elegant and mature side until volume 12 before
Except she has been like that since the beginning, the date in volume happened in a fancy place prepared by the Ratatoskr so it's not weird to think it felt elegant. Kotori would never kill Shidou, this not just preditctable but it's also dumb to think she would even do that.
The only genuine "side we never saw before" was showed by Shidou himself whe he went berserk after recalling what happened in the past, implying he harbors a deep hatred towards DEM.
English translations are now private in facebook.
Nips had mixed opinions about it though.
Really? I'm drawing a blank. I can't recall Kotori acting like that before. I mean with that kind of elegant and maturity even when she gets teased by Shidou. She has commander mode, but that's a different type of maturity that's more tough than it is sensible.
>not just preditctable but it's also dumb to think
user, a lot of development is predictable enough to be dumb to think it could go any other direction if you're genre savvy. We still can't dismiss development when they exist because of that.
but it's not development when it was never going to happen. Kotori was afraid of losing Shidou in volume 2, thinking she would be strong enough to pull the trigger and kill Shidou herself is already asking for more than she can handle, the whole order thing was just to add some shock value. The higher ups knew this and that's why they were ready to do it themselves.
I know it's obvious she wouldn't do it when the time came because we understand her feelings, but Kotori still went along and tasked herself with the job to do it, obviously because if someone was going to put down her Onii-chan, it should be her. But of course when the time came she couldn't push herself to do it. Just seeing her not do it and breaking down is still development.
DAL was such a fun harem.
Again, it's not development if it was never going to happen. It would have been development if she and the Fraxinas crew decided to leave Ratatoskr and support Shidou on their own knowing Ratatoskr can be trusted after they tried to kill Shidou themselves but no, they are still working for them, they can still pull off the laser shit again, the status quo between Shidou, Kotori and Ratatoskr remained the same.
I think you need to look up what development means in writing. Development isn't about predicting and guessing an outcome to see if it'll happen or not, it's about seeing changes or characteristics that readers haven't seen in a character before. Simply put, Kotori made a decision that went against what she was planning to do. It's simple as that.
Fraxinas and Ratatoskr are irrelevant to Kotori's personal development for the scene in question.
>tt's about seeing changes or characteristics that readers haven't seen in a character before
Exactly, and Kotori didn't do or was going to do anything that goes against her actual character. She was her usual self, afraid of killing Shidou, and couldn't bring herself to follow an order that was given by a superior, so she obviously had no alternative but to accept the mission.
I don't know how I can make it simpler than with what I just did. In one perspective, accepting the task was against her character, but in another perspective, accepting the task is within her character. Either way, we were led to think that she planned to do it from the few foreshadowing that was dropped. The idea pains her and she was unenthusiastic with the whole thing, but she still didn't say no. But she a decision to not do it vol.12, so it's still development regardless of the obviousness of such an outcome.
No, it isn't because it was never going to happen. Try to see the whole picture instead of focusing on minor details. The fact Ratatoskr gave Kotori the orden was a flawed reasoning to beging with, because:
1) She was emotionally linked with the objective.
2) If she was okay with killing Shidou if something wrong happens they could have assigned a different person for the job, someone who is not related with Shidou.
3) The gave the mission to a little girl who is not nearly as mature as she acts.
4) Spirits are proven to be mentally unstable and prone to feel strong emotions.
Ratatoskr obviously expected she wouldn't be able to execute the mission so they prepared everything to do it themselves. The hints were here all along.
Also the fact the "character conflict" never became relevant until that point. If there was indeed some character development you will have to excuse me but it was handled very poorly in a very short scene.
You are making this tons more complicated than it needs to be and have moved onto rationalize a point that isn't even relevant to the meaning of development. At its basics, development is to examine a change in a character or examine to a facet in a character's personality we haven't seen before. That's it. Kotori (obviously) drifted away from what she initially decided on and we saw that specific change transpired.
Just holy hell, it's not a huge deal or anything. I don't get why you're being obstinate over some development that was obviously going to happen with Kotori unable to carry through at the end. We predicted that ages ago, although some people criticized her for even thinking of killing Shidou, but naturally others argued that she won't do it.
>although some people criticized her for even thinking of killing Shidou
That's the shock value I previously mentioned, to manipulate the reader into thinking Kotori would be able to do something like that. Accepting the mission is not really being out of character, you can talk shit and say you will do it all you want but if you are not able to do it when the time comes then that means you are all bark and no bite.
We can't move further from this point, so we can only agree to disagree. But I think it's silly and just dumb to consider Kotori breaking down and rejecting the kill order on her home as not development. I really do.
Moving past that, at least you agree the date and dance scene showed a side we haven't seen before, right? If not and you can provide some text that shows her acting like that before, then I'll concede.
>at least you agree the date and dance scene showed a side we haven't seen before
What do you mean? It was the natural chemistry between Shidou and Kotori, the same chemistry we saw in her date in volume 4. None of the girls showed a "side we haven't seen before", every single one of them had a date fitting of their personalities and roles.
Why the spirits are so shit?
We need to remove them.
In fact, you guys should leave the task to me.
I have an entire fleet, technology and personnel ready to get rid of those vermin.
It might look painful but someone has yo do it, nevermind their pain, they do look human but they're not. They're monsters and as such should be purged.
Well, maybe Yoshino who expected her swimsuit to be torn apart but then again people have been joking/saying she is smart and very lewd.
Those two have chemistry, but Kotori acting maturely to the point of entertaining Shidou with eloquent teasing and disposition to match that while in black mode is something even her date with Shidou in vol.4 didn't have. So, not really.
Yes, it is. That's just the natural chemistry between them and this is not the only time where they tease each other.
I don't recall other scenes where she acted exactly like as seen in . I would be happy to yield if you showed me where she has.
Obviously there isn't because the context is different to the one in volume 4. In volume 4 they were in an amusement park so Shidou wanted to have a fun with Kotori, in volume 12 they were in a fancy place so they behaved according to the context of the date but what makes this scene special is the unique chemistry between, however that doesn't mean it's a "side we've never seen before" of Shidou and Kotori.
It is to me, and I think many people would say that seeing mature and well balanced Kotori in black mode and even flirting with Shidou as she takes him on in a challenge is something we haven't seen before. The whole setting and dance set the mood for just that.
That's because it was a different context so it obviously felt different. You probably would feel the same if the fancy date happened first in vol 4 then the fun date happened in volume 12, claiming this is the first time we have seen a fun side of Kotori where she and Shidou can be themselves without being told what to do. It would feel different because the interaction was different compared to the first one but at the end of the day is just Shidou and Kotori's unique chemistry in action.
It's not about fun side though. You missed the point if you think that.
The interactions they had in vol.12 occurred naturally as a result of the personality and chemistry they have. That much is clear, but we simply haven't seen Kotori act specifically to what I mentioned before. It's characterization, therefore simple development added to her character. Simple is best, there's no need to over think this.
No, I think you missed the point. In the fancy date we got the feeling of elegant Kotori while in the fun date we got the feeling of fun Kotori and that's when someone can notice the difference and make a comparison, because unlike like Tohka dates where Shidou treats her like a child, Shidou and Kotori's interactions change according to the context of the date.
It's not really development since it's just a different interaction given in a different situation. By that logic we can say the characters are constantly having development because they never act specifically the same, well except for Miku.
>characters are constantly having development because they never act specifically the same
That's more or less correct. That's what characterization is all about. Adding layers upon layers of qualities, traits, and behaviors that we haven't seen before. To act different in various situations or circumstances than they have before. There may be similarities that occurs to avoid out of character transitions, but similarities have an end point before they become something new. What we saw was have roots in similarity since chemistry and playfulness isn't new, but maturity and flirting with an assertive spark? That was different.
>but maturity and flirting with an assertive spark?
That's where you are wrong, Kotori and Shidou have their banter scenes where he tries to act like an older brother when Kotori is in black mode, usually ending in failure most of the time. You can see some of these scenes in the anime like when Shidou tried to make Kotori take a bath first or when she allowed him to see her panties while Shidou was on the floor or the times where she tries to take bath together with Shidou in short stories.
We're talking about Kotori and not Shidou's Onii-chan mode where he plays around with imouto white Kotori in a way before he found out about Spirits and all that. The scenes you described were Kotori channeling imouto mode and they were playful and innocent rather than mature and assertive while in black/commander mode. The nuance should be noted.
They were in black mode actually and I'm not talking about Kotori brithday if that's what you think, which is the only instance where Shidou accepted. The banter between "Shidou and Kotori", do you think Shidou is the only one interacting here or something?
What scenes was that? Give volume and chapter and let's check. I hope they aren't when she teases Shidou a bit and then reacts with pettish slapstick tsun or sadistic verbal lashing cause those would not be the same.
I was thinking about the birthday when you mentioned SS. I don't remember any where SS where had interactions like in vol.12's date scene that you would draw comparisons to.
Finished on Volume 7.
She's up against Yuzuru for top seat but we need to see how she interacts with the others.
The point is that the teasing and banter is here in the novels, what you saw in vol 12 is when Shidou is actually serious about it, in the end it's up to Shidou whether the intearaction feels different or not besides why are you saying Kotori is the one who got development when Shidou has been doing the same in several dates but not necessarily means he got development in those dates?
Now I think about we are focusing on very minor things and calling them development when it's just character interaction at most, there is no change in the narrative or the core the character when a date happens, unless the girl is an unsealed spirit.
I alluded to and agreed that to the teasing/banter/chemistry. That's not new and it's something they always have. But that isn't the point. Neither is Shidou's part since the topic is volume 12 showing some development for Kotori or not, which I argued that she did received some. I don't feel like repeating those arguments over again, but you can go over them if you like.
To answer your question for Shidou, he gets development if we see changes/sides to him that we haven't seen before. It's the same with Kotori as I said. Shidou was behaving differently than usual in vol.12 because spirit power affected his personality. Once his power was under control and he regain all of his senses, Shidou returned relatively to normal, although he retained memories of the time he had with the girls and those experiences allows him to develop from them.
I disagree. Development doesn't have to be major changes in a character's personality. Sometimes it's the small things that matters and adds up. A difference in behavior (even if expected) at a critical point in an arc isn't really small, so Kotori's decision to go against killing is development.
Dropped on Volume 1.
Maybe a Mana arc could happen.