Dragon Ball Super

Friendly reminder that Zamasu and Zamasu did nothing wrong

Other urls found in this thread:

kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-book-version/
kanzenshuu.com/2016/05/09/future-trunks-arc-announced-dragon-ball-super/
kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-introduction/
kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/
youtube.com/watch?v=nz6E-yx4hVo
youtu.be/GT1gFFLxlQ0
youtube.com/watch?v=s08Oo9x7v18

Who is Black supposed to be? I haven't watched this shit.

So when will he impregnate, Cred Forums?

APOLOGIZE RIGHT FUCKING NOW

Zamasu

You madman!

A Zamasu from another timeline.

Where are the sexy Zamasu pics

I want to put my dick onto Gowasu's tea

...

Thoughts on new ending song?

Very soon, user.

For what?

>people are so lonely they get excited for trunks hooking up with a character that was a literally who tier gag henchman

>One day Goku is training like usual and then suddenly he finds his mind warped into some strange green body in the middle of space
>While having no idea what's going on someone that looks exactly like you did shows up and talks about how they are the new you and then kills you

What a horrifying way to die.

>yfw present Trunks and Mai fuck after the arc

ZAMASU!

>Goku has virgin lips

Chi-chi confirmed for worst girl.

I bet you he killed all of Goku's friends and family after

>user is so salty he keeps complaining about a harmless fictional romance

Doesn't this also confirm that Vegeta has kissed Bulma?

At least Trunks stole her first kiss

>Goku has virgin lips
Not canon until it happens in the manga.

chatting shit about DBS

Numerous times, held hands too.

...

>the dog boo saved
>married
>no. 18 daughter
>gohans daughter

you know this are notes he wrote down for himself so he wouldn't forget

It can't be helped, user

Less shit than Yokayoka Dance, but still totally shit, especially when you see the levels of... ALL the other show's OPs and EDs. I wish Toriyama would stop to rely on Toei, it's like they're trying to kill the show.

>Leave Black to me

You again? Give us a fucking break with your shitposting. It's borderline metal illness.

was broly the god of destruction before goku killed him?

Go raid an IRC channel or something you sperg

Who knows.


The more important question is why did zamasu choose gokus body when he could of chosen broly with unlimited KI. He was the LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYAN DAMN IT.
He had potential! Way more then goku.

If Black is that Goku from the unseen timeline, that's fucking sick.

Broly is dead

Broly isn't canon, retard

>Goku has never kissed his wife and has two kids
what

what? I'm not wrong though

>Goku is Kissless

HAAAHAHAHAHAHA holy shit what a cuck.

Why does he look like Goku?

Don't call me retard. Apologize.

See

He deserved some happiness after all the stuff he has gone through.

Funny how Senile Toriyama writes better romance than Mashima, Kubo, Kishi.

...

He made a wish with the super dragon balls to swap bodies with Goku, Then with goku's body he killed Goku in his body.

Now, where's that sperg who kept insisting they were just friends in other threads?

He meant mouth to mouth.

after watching the spic subs I'm curious on how Whis and Beerus are not aware that Trunks' time machine is fucking up space time continuum and creating additional timelines.

>implying close friends don't ever bird feed each other

>this fucking pic
>blacks reaction in the background

The main series we're watching isn't even the real timeline.

Neither is Future Trunks timeline but Toriyama probably forgot about that or never thought about it much.

what does having a woman like that on top feel like?

Toriyama didn't say anything about canon you illiterate moron, he just said that Toyotaro has taken his mantle of drawing manga since he doesn't do it anymore. Toei doesn't draw manga so the statement obviously wouldn't apply to them.

>Neither is Future Trunks timeline
Sure it is.

No it isn't.

Super is just bad fanfiction with toriyama's name on it, anyway.

Also, what XV2 manga?

Too bad Toeifaggot the DBS manga is the true continuation of Dragon Ball.

kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-book-version/

>I’m really grateful to you. I never thought an artist like you would come along to draw the continuation of my story!

>The main series we're watching isn't even the real timeline
What do you mean?

>The main series we're watching isn't even the real timeline.
every timeline is in fact "real"

Explain your reasoning.

I think this Goku Black is the Goku from Cell's timeline (the one where he killed Trunks). What I think happened was:

- Trunks killed Freeza, gave Goku the Heart Medicine
- Goku was killed by Zamasu before fighting the Androids (he was much weaker back then), and Zamasu switched minds with him
- The rest of the timeline plays much like Trunks': the others fall in battle against the Androids
- Trunks came back to the future and defeated the Androids via remote control
- Cell killed Trunks

This would explain why Cell told Piccolo that Goku was dead in his timeline, but he remembers Trunks defeating Freeza, which would be highly improbable, because if that was the case, Goku would still be alive.

So Trunks gave Goku the medicine, but Goku was killed by Zamasu.

The manga is still terrible though, and since it skips entire arcs pointing the reader to the anime, that's a tough pill to swallow.

...

>Mai with a shotgun
stupid bitch

>The anime is still terrible though
ftfy
The manga is great.

I've always wondered about that a little. Cell is from the timeline created by the changes made by trunks on his first trip (his warning), but does that mean that without his second trip, the future was still a mess?

...

>grasping this hard

By "continuation of his story" he's talking about DBS in general and he's grateful Toyotaro came along to draw it in manga form. He didn't say anything about canon there either.

Wow so you actually are illiterate, take an English class or something.

The time machine only creates timelines when you travel to the past BEFORE a prior travel.
So if Trunks first traveled back to the year 2000, he would create another timeline. Then, if he traveled back again, this time to the year 1999, he would create yet another timeline.
However, if the traveled back to 2001 after traveling back to 2000, he wouldn't create another timeline, because he went to a time period after his prior travel.

The whole thing with Cell happened basically because Cell went back to 1 year before Trunks first arrived in the past. That's why he created all those timelines.

>and since it skips entire arcs pointing the reader to the anime
>skipping trash filler arcs like Copy Vegeta and SSJ Satan
and nothing of value was fucking lost.

No, user, no. The manga is slightly less garbage than the anime.

SSB got killed by a weakshit decoder ring, who knows maybe she hopes to catch black with his "guard down".

And, you know, the fucking RoF saga.

It's a timeline that was created by use of the time machine.

It's kind of a pain to explain. It's easiest to explain by giving a timeline...of the timelines.

First there was a timeline where Dr. Gero created the Androids and Cell. They killed everyone so Buma made a time machine.
Trunks goes back in time, making a new timeline, or separate world. There he finds a way to defeat the Androids (it's not explained how but its assumed he found the plans and made a remote to deactivate them), goes back to his time, and defeats the Androids there. Unfortunately this Trunks didnt know about Cell, and Cell killed Trunks, and took his time machine. Cell went back even further in time, to before Trunks killed Frieza, and since the settings changed this made another new timeline.
Once again a Trunks comes from the future and basically the same thing goes down, which means Cell going back in time made a 4th timeline too, except this time its different because Cell shows himself to the heroes. This alters a bunch of shit and makes it so that the future Trunks we know doesnt get ambushed when he goes back to the future.

this actually makes sense

who cares, it's nothing but retelling the movie.
Even before the show started Toyotaro did a 3 chapter promotional manga up to the release of the movie before the anime was even around.

>However, if the traveled back to 2001 after traveling back to 2000, he wouldn't create another timeline, because he went to a time period after his prior travel.
This makes no sense whatsoever, and completely messes up the time ring count.

The statement you're quoting doesn't even remotely imply that the DBS manga is the """true""" continuation. Quit making shit up.

black is not goten?
all the interest I had in the series has been lost.

Just realized the Zamasu kinda dying in the opening is probably the switched Goku.

>reaching this hard
Stay mad Toeifag

Anime

kanzenshuu.com/2016/05/09/future-trunks-arc-announced-dragon-ball-super/

>I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.

>Even I haven’t checked the final script yet.
>Let’s enjoy this together (laughs)!!

kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-history-book-akira-toriyama-introduction/

>I had put Dragon Ball behind me, but seeing how much that live-action film ticked me off, and how I revised that script for the anime movie and complained about the quality of the TV anime, I suppose somewhere along the line it’s become a series I like too much to ever leave alone.

Manga

kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/

>Speaking of the manga, I want to ask you two about how you put the manga together. I hear Toriyama-sensei checks the storyboards for each chapter.
>Toriyama: That’s right.

>Back when Toriyama-sensei was drawing the manga, the animators would use his manga panels as reference, imitating the composition and things like that. And now it seems that the animators are likewise using Toyotaro-sensei‘s manga as reference.
>Toriyama: Oh, that’s good! That should keep them on track!

You know you're wrong when you became a broken record nobody listens to.

>Not canon
Why does no one understand the idea of ALTERNATE CONTINUITIES?

>This would explain why Cell told Piccolo that Goku was dead in his timeline, but he remembers Trunks defeating Freeza, which would be highly improbable, because if that was the case, Goku would still be alive.

The problem with Cell remembering Frieza is that thats fucking impossible because if Cell came from a future where Frieza was defeated by Trunks but Bulma still had to make a time machine ANYWAY then that would mean that Trunks warning did shit all and not even the Trunks that got killed by Cells timeline is the original timeline.

You guys are insufferable.

>This alters a bunch of shit and makes it so that the future Trunks we know doesnt get ambushed when he goes back to the future.
So? His timeline is still the "real one". Future Trunks never got killed in his own timeline, he was killed in the unseen one caused by his first trip. His own future is still the one that was never affected by time travel.

I don't care for a retelling, but the fact that the manga tells you to go watch the anime and skips a whole saga says to me the anime is more canon.

So when are you going to suck our cocks?

He probably just fucks her like animals do.

>The problem with Cell remembering Frieza is that thats fucking impossible because if Cell came from a future where Frieza was defeated by Trunks but Bulma still had to make a time machine

It's not impossible. It means trunks gave his warning and killed frieza, but because he never returned the second time to help, the future didn't change and they were all killed by the androids.

Everytime Toriyama references the continuation of Dragon Ball he always talks about the manga and not the anime.

>that one faggot always shilling the shitty Super manga is back

Aaaand here we go.

...

No, his timeline was a timeline that was made to self-fulfill the timeline where a Trunks comes from the future.
When the unseen timeline Trunks came from the future, that probably changed all present day timelines and made it so that from that point on, a Trunks would always come from the future. So if you keep going back in time to different points before Trunks arrived, you will always be making two timelines.

>Future Trunks never got killed in his own timeline, he was killed in the unseen one caused by his first trip.
I know. That's what I said.

>I don't care for a retelling, but the fact that the manga tells you to go watch the anime and skips a whole saga says to me the anime is more canon.
it didn't it told you to go watch the movie because the anime didn't exist.
The fact of the matter is the anime is not "more canon" at all if you were to actually do some research. They both have their respective continuities.
The thing with these continuities is that Toei usese a lot of filler that's not part of the canon plot outline so it's filled with a lot of fluff and poor art and animation.
The manga on the other hand is reviewed and overseen personally by Toriyama himself creating a n authentic experience frame by frame.

The thing about the timeline theory being such a mess is because of two things:

1) Cell's conversation with Piccolo, stating Goku was dead AND that Trunks defeated Freeza.

2) We don't know how many times Trunks travelled back and forth. This is the main point, because the anime/manga only shows him travelling back twice: one to warn of the Androids, and another to help fight against them. However, Cell's timeline shows that Trunks defeated the Androids by an unseen method. The most probable method was through the remote control. HOWEVER, Trunks only arrived in Gero's lab to get the Android #17 blueprints AFTER his second travel, meaning he would need yet another travel to the future to give the blueprints to his mother, then be killed by Cell. This doesn't work that well because Trunks said (and DB Super confirms) that they take a very long time to recharge the machine in the future, and it's only good for one round trip (past - future). So in the 10 days that Cell gives them, there's no timeframe where he could recharge the time machine.

People tried to explain this by saying that the Trunks that Cell killed went back to the future before the Cell games, to defeat the Androids of his time, and wanted to come back to the past to help them against Cell. However, this doesn't make sense AGAIN, because he would still know about Cell, and wouldn't be killed so haphazardly.

My guess is that Future Bulma just discovered the remote control on her own. But that still begs the question of why she didn't do it in Future Trunks' timeline (where Trunks killed Cell and the Androids).

My head hurts.

>Butthurt Toeifag

No, every time he references the continuation of Dragon Ball he always talks about Super in general. He's also done this in interviews pertaining to the movies, which were obviously not Toyotaro's work.

Anyone who isn't an absolute retard knows that both Toei and Toyotaro take their own liberties, there is no absolute canon beyond Toriyama's basic plot outlines.

That's actually impossible because at that point in time Cell was already sleeping in the ground before Trunks arrived. If they were all killed by the Androids, Cell would've gotten them. Theres no way Cell would be farting around for 17 years while Trunks grows up.

yeah that was definitely my first time posting about trunks+mai and I'm not even sure why you would reply to me as if you knew who I was

...

> DBS Manga
> Shitty

>No, his timeline was a timeline that was made to self-fulfill the timeline where a Trunks comes from the future.
The fuck are you on about. He never came to his own past, and neither did Cell.

>He never came to his own past,

Could I get that in English?

Could Tito Dick "Dickman" go super saiyan?

He's probably a Kaio-Kuk that needs to wank off to the idea of bajillion power level that move faster than time.

Trunks explains this when Gohan asks him about Cell's egg.
My guess is that Zamasu probably just botched one or two attempts to acquire Goku's body, going back further in the past with each attempt.

Like:
- Zamasu goes back to Majin Boo saga. Goku is already stronger than him, so he fails.
- Zamasu pulls another Zamasu from the past.
- Zamasu goes back to before the Android Saga (Cell's timeline) and succeeds in killing Goku.

>Dragon Ball he always talks about Super in general.
>there is no absolute canon beyond Toriyama's basic plot outlines.
Which we don't have retard hence the manga is more canon.

>Anime
>Even I haven’t checked the final script yet.
>Let’s enjoy this together (laughs)!!

>Manga
>Speaking of the manga, I want to ask you two about how you put the manga together. I hear Toriyama-sensei checks the storyboards for each chapter.
>Toriyama: That’s right.

>Back when Toriyama-sensei was drawing the manga, the animators would use his manga panels as reference, imitating the composition and things like that. And now it seems that the animators are likewise using Toyotaro-sensei‘s manga as reference.
>Toriyama: Oh, that’s good! That should keep them on track!

It's absolute garbage. SSG was brought back despite word of god saying that would make no sense, the pacing is fucked because Toyble tries too hard to keep up with the anime, Trunks has no business fighting on par with SS3 Goku, etc.

go to kanzenshit if you wanna see 8 times out of 10 people insisting trunks x mai isn't a canon thing

You must be kidding, anime fillers aren't 'full arcs', especially not when they recolor characters in purple to make a few extra episodes and we'll never hear about them again.

The main point is that Cell mentions Trunks defeating Freeza, AND says Goku died. It's highly improbable that there is a future where Trunks gave Goku the Heart Medicine and he still died.
If Cell said that Goku defeated Freeza (as the original timeline), then that would be all fine and dandy. But they decided to recycle panels/animation, and now we have this mess.

>Trunks has no business fighting on par with SS3 Goku
but it's somehow okay to fight on par with Goku Black Rose and get one shotted by SSJ3 Goku? You're fucking delusional.

Trunks has been training ever since he went back to the future, of course he would be on par with that shitty SSJ3 transformation.

"KURIRIN"

>I've had enough of this, you don't hurt my friends anymore!

Black wasn't even taking him seriously you fucking retard, he was toying with him and Goku throughout the entire fight.

Why are Toyblefags so stupid?

Hilarious that the DB Heroes commercial featured Black beating the shit out of Gohan.

Unseen Trunks coming first all makes sense if you just ignore that stupid line about Frieza. That line doesn't make any sense no matter which way you look at it. Just chalk it up to Toriyama fucking up.

you didn't address the fact that he got one shotted by a mere SSJ3 Goku.
Why are Toei shills so delusional?

Sauce please, I need to show that Gohanfag that made the bet, he's on Cred Forums hiding from us

>It's absolute garbage. SSG was brought back despite word of god saying that would make no sense,
He say the same about Goku using SS2 and SS3, also SSB Kaiokenx10 doesn't make any sense

>SSG made Beerus use 70% of his power
>SSB is stronger plus Whis said that Goku and Vegeta together can beat Beerus
>Yet SSBx10 Kaioken isn't stronger than Beerus


>the pacing is fucked because Toyble tries too hard to keep up with the anime,
Yet he was able to show the Future Majin arc in greater detail than anime and better explain the time travel unlike Toei.

>Trunks has no business fighting on par with SS3 Goku, etc.
But Trunks fighting with SSR Black is a-OK.

>Canon: the works of a particular author or artist that are recognized as genuine
Not that guy and not disagreeing with you. I actually agree 100%. But I think this definition of canon is relevant to a franchise as big as Dragon Ball, since there are multiple canons going by this. At the very least, the easily recognizable ones are Anime and Manga canon.

I think people should stop using "canon" to mean "continuity". The movies are made by the same people who made the TV series, so they'd be "canon" despite being out-of-continuity (which is the actual term for these things).

>He say
He said*

Cell talking about Freeza and Trunks dna not used was just a error or a plotline Toriyama was going to use but got dropped or just Cell used as a narrator for Toriyama and he screwed up some details.

There is a reason that plot point was never used by either the manga, or anime filler or any guide.

youtube.com/watch?v=nz6E-yx4hVo

DRAGONBALLLLLLL
DRAGONBALLLLLLL HEROES!

Now we just need the Gohanfag bet to complete the collection.

>the pacing is fucked because Toyble tries too hard to keep up with the anime
That's actually really fucking funny. Who knew it could happen the other way around?

He got one shotted by SS3 Goku because he wasn't nearly as powerful as SS3 Goku and Goku wanted to finish the fight.

He didn't get one shotted by SSR Black because Black was toying with him for his own personal amusement and wasn't even fighting seriously.

You're retarded.

>better explain the time travel unlike Toei.
Did the anime have this?

No, didn't cell arrive between trunk's first visit and his second one?

Explain yourself better first. Trunk's first trip changed time, but trunk's own timeline was never affected by the time machine, so it was never split.

>Trunks explains this when Gohan asks him about Cell's egg.
Post the page please. The ring count is perfectly in tune with the travels we know of. What you're proposing is insanely messy.

It could mean cell comes from a timeline when they received the warning but were still killed by the androids. Cell can't have come from a timeline when Goku defeated Frieza, because that is ONLY trunk's timeline, and Cell was killed in trunk's timeline before he could travel.

considering both mediums are based off of Toriyama's plot outlines, in this specific case the truest "canon" would simply just be Toriyama's manuscripts alone.
That being said, the manga stays truer to his vision simply because Toriyama actually has his hand in the production of the manga unlike the anime which is just licensed out to Toei.

Holy shit, Gotenfag and Panfag fucking destroyed

>Hercule
>Kuririn
Something doesn't add up here.

Liar.
>youtu.be/GT1gFFLxlQ0
There is no Gohan

someone explain to me how ssj2 future trunks was able to trade blows with zamasu and SSR black

arent SSB and SSR like orders of magnitude more powerful than SSJ3

>h-he was t-t-toying with HIM!!!
God Toeifags are retards.

Your dumb fucking head canon means jack shit buddy.
Enjoy being a literal fool.

I don't like being lied to.

Your hand is mine.

There was in the commercial that aired today.

That depends on whether you're talking about Toriyama's canon or Toei's canon (which is another set of people who created another work), which are both valid. It does seem like they're both respectively sticking to their medium, though, which is nice.

>He say the same about Goku using SS2 and SS3

He said Goku wouldn't resort to them for the most part, which is true.

>Yet he was able to show the Future Majin arc in greater detail than anime and better explain the time travel unlike Toei.

The Future Majin arc has zero importance to this arc besides explaining how the Supreme Kais got killed off.

>But Trunks fighting with SSR Black is a-OK.

He wasn't fighting anywhere close to equally with him.

this same setting rule makes more sense than the Anime's "Time co-ordinates" which kind of just waters down the tension and risks of time travelling.

>someone explain to me how ssj2 future trunks was able to trade blows with zamasu and SSR black
Toei a shit

Link

>No, didn't cell arrive between trunk's first visit and his second one?

No, Cell arrived before Frieza did and slept in the ground for 4 years or something.

>Trunk's first trip changed time, but trunk's own timeline was never affected by the time machine, so it was never split.
...Ok? I didn't say it was split. I said when Cell went back in time to the tv series timeline, that was a timeline where a Trunks was going to come from the future. In order for that to happen, Future Trunks timeline was made as well.
It's weird to think about, but it makes more sense than the other way around. If you believe that Future Trunks timeline came first and not Unseen Trunks, then there's a big fat time gap where this Future Trunks was somehow able to defeat the Androids in the future, get killed by Cell, and have Cell go back in time, and go back in time again to defeat Cell, even though we followed Future Trunks in the show and know that there's no point that could've happened. Thus Future Trunks coming first is impossible.

Shouldn't Trunks have gone back to Cell era time?

I don't understand how they an give this explanation WITH MAI IN THE ROOM.

Yes, he was toying with him. Trunks blocking his attack and kicking him doesn't change that.

Black flat-out said they were easy pickings and he didn't even have a single scratch on him after the fight.

Enjoy being an assblasted Toyblefag.

Cell never appeared in Trunk's own timeline, though. Meaning his timeline is not one that cell's travel affected.

Found the multiversefag

Sayain Hybrids, son

the manga looks cooler but even a buffed ssj2 should get one-shotted by rose and blue

like trunks shouldn't even be able to touch people on that level even if they are toying with him

>Cell never appeared in Trunk's own timeline, though.

Uh, yeah he did. He was in BOTH. Trunks killed Cell in one, and Cell killed Trunks in the other. They were both different Cells.
The Cell in the series timeline got blown up in the lab by Krillin.

That Cell is the one Trunks kills on his own.

>but trunk's own timeline was never affected by the time machine
That is literally what caused the split: he went back and changed things there, but his own time didn't change to resolve with it.

But he also shouldn't have been able to travel back to his own time after the split, so time travel was fucked from the start.

>Enjoy being an assblasted Toyblefag.
>resorting to dumb insults because no arguments besides headcanon
Great looks like this discussion is over. Come back to me when you make a legit hypothesis as to why SSJ3 Goku trashed Trunks like a little bitch in the Anime.
The only true answer you can muster up is the fact that Goku did INDEED activate and tap into his God Ki just like in the manga.
Of course Toei Shills will continue to fan the flames of war simply because you're underaged retards that know no better.

does this mean his AF manga is canon :\

>Uh, yeah he did. He was in BOTH.
What I mean is he never appeared during trunk's infancy, user. Cell appeared after he hatched from the laboratory, NOT after he hatched from the ground.

No, the Cell trunks kills is the one born from the lab.

>That is literally what caused the split: he went back and changed things there, but his own time didn't change to resolve with it.
Meaning his timeline is the main, original timeline.

>But he also shouldn't have been able to travel back to his own time after the split
Why not? Call it a "home" setting, the machine always returns to the timeline it left.

>He said Goku wouldn't resort to them for the most part, which is true.
Except he did use them SS2 aganist Trunks,Black and Zamasu and SS3 against Trunks.

>The Future Majin arc has zero importance to this arc
You don't know that and it doesn't matter the manga was able to elaborate on material that was Toriyama's outline and the anime wasn't. The manga's pacing is fine.

>He wasn't fighting anywhere close to equally with him.
Are you blind?

>What I mean is he never appeared during trunk's infancy, user.

What does that have to do with anything?
And he did during the main series timeline technically.

Now this is just utter bullshit.

>Yes, he was toying with him
>Trunks blocking his attack and kicking him doesn't change that.
You're retarded.

>Come back to me when you make a legit hypothesis as to why SSJ3 Goku trashed Trunks like a little bitch in the Anime.

Not who you're arguing with, but the manga is still retarded in that regard. SSB for an instant trashed trunks, so SSR, which is stronger, will have to trash trunks just as bad.

Trunks hasn't fought SSR in the manga though.

>ssj2 should get one-shotted by rose and blue
That hasn't happened in the manga yet. We don't know how it will turn out.

>What does that have to do with anything?
If Cell didn't sprout from the ground, it means Trunk's timeline was never affected by time travel.

To get this shit a little straighter, what YEAR did trunks visit on his first trip, meeting Frieza? Is there some timeline we can reference?

>SSB for an instant trashed trunks,
No he used SSG retard.

>No he used SSG retard.
Same shit, stupid, and if he used SSG, that only emphasizes my point, SSG is weaker than SSB.

I am no longer a Gotenfag. I'm gonna join the Vegetafags.

The only information we have is that he momentarily tapped into God Ki. We have no explanation regards to any forms or transformations.

Trunks kills Freeza in Age 764.
Cell arrives in Age 763.

>If Cell didn't sprout from the ground, it means Trunk's timeline was never affected by time travel.

I don't see how that matters any. We already know for a fact that there's two future Trunks timelines. Theres no debating that part. One of them must have come earlier, and it makes a ton more sense for the unseen Trunks one to have come first.

i mean you don't need to see it happen

assuming the power level rules are internally consistent (lol) we've been shown that regular ki is no match for god ki

rose and blue are god ki transformations which puts them on a completely different scale if SSB is like 60% of beerus full power or whatever and beerus can literally defeat ssj3 goku with one finger then ssj2 trucks no matter how strong shouldn't even be in the conversation

>Same shit,
No it's not retard.

>Call it a "home" setting
And how did Bulma know how to put that in? They clearly weren't aware it would split in the first place.

if trunks is able to just go super saiyan blue by himself then that completely trivializes the transformation. any saiyan worth their salt can train and skip from ssj2 to having god ki.

No, you're just too idiotic to comprehend a situation where Trunks would momentarily block and kick a Black who wasn't using anywhere near his full effort.

There's plotholes no matter which way you think about it. Don't overthink it.

The same Trunks coming back a second time makes plenty of plotholes on is own.

>The only information we have is that he momentarily tapped into God Ki.
That's more than enough to prove the point. Tapping into god ki trashed him, meaning Rose will have to completely trash him.

The distinction is irrelevant for my argument, you autist.

I hope he becomes relevant so you end up full of regret for being a traitor.

no matter how you look at it, Goku having to actually put effort into defeating Trunks is much more logical than a mere SSJ3 Goku one shotting him, only later to see Trunks fighting on par with god level beings.

Bulma theorized it would split the past, not the future. When Gohan asked Trunks about the Androids in his timeline, Trunks explains this (and his plan to bring Goku to the future). It's when they're flying in the airplane.

trunks and goku also survived point blank SSR kamehameha

the way they are showing the power levels in super is inconsistent as fuck even for dragon ball

>i mean you don't need to see it happen
Yeah you do. Again, we don't know how it will turn out. Trunks could get SSB before then or he might not even fight them.

They were, trunks tells them he knew the timeline wouldn't be fixed, he just wanted to see a better future.

Even so, it could also be an intrinsic property of time travel. The "return trip" could always take you to your original timeline.

Bulma was always aware, Trunks explains this to Krillin & co in Yamcha's ship, that Bulma wanted to create a timeline with a better future and discover something to kill the androids or bring Goku himself with Trunks to the future so he can destroy them.

>the way they are showing the power levels in the ANIME of super is inconsistent as fuck even for dragon ball
fix'd

did you forget how to get SSG you just need a ritual

all of the saiyan cast should get SSG, heck why haven't they given FUTURE TRUNKS SSG

Nah you're just retarded.

Of course it's more logical, but the basic problem remains: Black will have to be able to completely trash him.

>trunks and goku also survived point blank SSR kamehameha

Which also wasn't intended to kill them, as Black specifically implies he kept them alive in order to drag things out longer and become even stronger.

S-Sorry, user

Cause Trunks will go SSB

>Bulma made an entire universe with its own history and Gods and literal God God to kill some robots

What a bitch.

Your argument is retarded just like you.

The villian looks like something that come out of deviantart

>That's more than enough to prove the point. Tapping into god ki trashed him, meaning Rose will have to completely trash him.
that may be so, but you're just going to have to wait and see what happens.
I'm sure nothing could be as bad as the inconsistent mess that we got from Toei.
>Get one shotted by a weak ass SSJ3 Goku
>still manage to fight on par with Rose and tank a godly Kamehameha.

Isn't it something like this?

I could ignore this when it was isolated to one arc, but this show brought it up and added many more layers of FLAN.

that's a fair point as i dont read the manga

i suppose but the anime is still inconsistent

>Which also wasn't intended to kill them,
Except he and Zamasu tried to kill them again immediately after that retard.

>I'm sure nothing could be as bad as the inconsistent mess that we got from Toei.
Can't disagree with you there, retconning SSBKKx10 was already a huge boost to the story's consistency.

I still think the manga's bad, but it's definitely better than the anime.

What the fuck Zamasu that's the gayest thing ever

So is Zamasu the one where "everyone's probably fucked here" timeline?

>only later to see Trunks fighting on par with god level beings

I don't know why you keep repeating this like a broken record when Black directly says Trunks is nowhere close to his level when he's fighting seriously.

Trunks couldn't even do shit to Black in BASE, what makes you think he can fight on par with Rose?

Isn't the Trunks we know from the timeline that split off from Cell coming back after killing the other Trunks?

No, Zamasu hasn't changed the past. He traveled to the future trunk's time for some reason.

No, because cell never appeared in his past, only in his future.

It's not gay if it's yourself.

>Except he and Zamasu tried to kill them again immediately after that retard

"Black specifically implies he kept them alive in order to drag things out longer and become even stronger."

Read the whole sentence before replying next time, retard.

I cant make any sense of this at all, not even 1%.

>Making the mother of all omelettes here, Trunks! Can't fret over every egg!
I wonder what else the "Ningen 0 Plan" wants to achieve?

Because the show shows him doing it, stupid. At least on par with Goku SSB. They even tank the same attack and receive the same amount of damage.

I mean changing bodies with Goku

>No, because cell never appeared in his past, only in his future.

Uh, what?

>what makes you think he can fight on par with Rose?
because that's how dumb Toei depicted the 2v2 fight.
If he did get one shotted by a mere SSJ3 Goku, there's no fucking way he should keep up with these deities whatsoever. He should be a fucking pancake like how SSJ3 Goku got fucked by a mere flick to the forehead.
The manga did Trunks justice by depicting him so strong that Goku was forced to use God Ki to put him down. The Anime can only redeem themselves in terms of consistency if they reveal that the SSJ3 Goku One Punch hit was indeed laced with God Ki.

>kept them alive in order to drag things out longer and become even stronger."

>Except he and Zamasu tried to kill them again immediately after that retard.
>immediately

Take your own advice retard.

I mean I could try to explain if you'd ask. It's my own interpretation.

The Cell that burrowed into the ground and hatched during the time the androids appeared did not show up in his timeline. He only met the Cell that had just been born from the lab and was looking for the androids to absorb them.

>Trunks kills Androids
>Then Trunks returns
>THEN Trunks kill Cell

What? This never happened.

>Because the show shows him doing it, stupid

Because you don't pay attention to Black's dialogue, stupid.

We should stop the discussions on this because it makes no sense in any context. Making the events of a previous timeline plot-relevant was an awful mistake; it worked with Cell because the only important thing was that he came back in time.

>Vegeta went blue then powered down back to base

How hard is he going to job?

The DBS manga is superior in pretty much every regard the characterization of the characters (especially Goku), structure, delivering and expanding on information, art, fight choreography, humour etc
It's being drawn by Toyotaro a huge fan of the series with each chapter being overlooked by Toriyama whereas the anime is just another soulless cash grab for Toei.

>The Cell that burrowed into the ground and hatched during the time the androids appeared did not show up in his timeline. He only met the Cell that had just been born from the lab and was looking for the androids to absorb them.

What? Could you repeat this without using any "he" pronouns and use Future Trunks for the Trunks we know and Unseen Trunks for the original Trunks who got killed by Cell?

Cell appearing in the past = larva that burrows underground
Cell appearing in the future = from the lab

>job?
Why does almost everyone that spams this buzzword not know what it means?

how the hell did trunks train his ssj2 to be so efficient it outclasses ssj3

ssj3 is supposed to "inefficient" because it uses ki so fast but it's supposed to be way above even a "perfect" ssj2 right? or no?

i do remember that goku and vegeta fought kid buu in ssj2 but kid buu is weaker than super buu who ssj3 level or stronger iirc

This doesn't even make sense because the oldest timeline was the one in which the Perfect Cell was born.

>it worked with Cell because the only important thing was that he came back in time.

Except Cell came back in time from a timeline we didn't really see much of. If we saw more of it it might have explained some mysteries.

I'd be more surprised if someone used a buzzword correctly

so Gowasu is dead here? sure looks like it

Whose future? Whose past? Be more specific.

Perfect SSJ2 probably takes more time to achieve than SSJ3.
Of course Trunks is a hybrid so it takes him less time to achieve it.

Is the DBZ manga good if I want to nostalgia without watching hundreds of episodes of animu?

I just realized something, why does future Zamasu want to kill Goku to the point of telling Black to leave Goku for him?

As far as I can tell he hasn't even met him before the time everyone went to fight Black.

Yes. This will of course be where Zamasu is ranting about his ningen plan.

There is no logic in that shit.
SSJ2 Trunks is BARELY stronger then fucking SSJ2 Gohan after he spent years fucking around.
Him being able to hang with SSJ3 Goku after long years of hard training and fighting against Vegeta isn't logical. It's outright motherfucking retarded.
Even worse was the utterly fucking idiotic "Training" of Trunks that was basically Vegeta standing there like a faggot and beating him up in SSJB form. Even worse "SSJ2 with Ultrasaiyan powers is stupid and useless" like that fucking cunt has any room to talk about fighting skill. Vegeta, who's entire fighting repetoir is GET STRONGER THEN THEM THEN FIGHT SNEAKILY WHILE USING AWFUL TECHNIQUE

And him NOT going SSJ3 or USSJ2 to hold his own against SSJ3 was pure faggotry and I am embarassed by Super.


Now we have to sit through SSJ2 Trunks holding his own against guys that god level goku has trouble with.
The entire goddamned thing has gone off the rails.

any real Dragon Ball fan would read the source manga material at least once.
How else would you notice the subtle differences and the laced in filler if you are not familiar with the source material?

It's also being animated by huge fans of the series, guy. Both are meant to make money, and both have enthusiastic workers behind them. Not everything that turns out bad is solely because it's soulless.

Dude, it's all about dat dere god ki.
And piccolo was once a god and tienshenhan is the most spiritual of the Z fighters. Why don't those two have dat dere god ki?

No blue haired saiyan bullshit that's why.

The show is much worse as a show than the manga is as a comic. You might even say the manga is good.

Does kissing women make you a jobber in the DBverse?

>It's also being animated by huge fans of the series,
>both have enthusiastic workers behind them
I don't know man.

Tien doesn't have any woman around him (seriously, where is Lunch?) so not really. Although, I remember some /fit/ screenshot that has a theory about that.

zamasu was reportedly cucked by a ningen women for a chad saiyan which fueled his rage so beware

Launch took off after she walked in on Tien boning Chiaotzu.

...

>enthusiastic workers
No the OPM anime had enthusiastic animators.

"Big fan" doesn't necessarily translate to "skilled artist".
I'd look more towards the terribly-drawn-but-well-animated parts for them, though.

>both have enthusiastic workers behind them.

They seem more enthusiastic animating Precure and messing up Trunk's SSJ2 hair.

I didn't mention unseen trunks.

Cell is the first known cause of a time split, he made the split by going to the past and burrowing, to reappear when the Androids did.
This cell, the time traveling cell, did not show up in Future Trunk's timeline's past when the androids did. Therefore, we can assume Future Trunk's timeline was never affected by Time Traveling Cell's arrival, since he never hatched there.
This means Trunk's timeline is the only directly unaffected by Trunk's time machine, and therefore the "true" timeline.

I'm not sure I quite get what you mean. The perfect cell of the show did not come from the oldest timeline, because he mentions a past where Future Trunks appeared and kills frieza.

just enjoy the ride user.

>being animated by huge fans
Wasn't Super being animated by pinoys?

what are you talking about

trunks didn't try to outdo his SSJ2 for ANOTHER transformation, he trained with SSJ2. Which is why he was toe to toe with SSJ3 goku.

Him not knowing about SSJ3 makes sense since it isn't something that you just get after training X amount.

Except Unseen Trunks timeline was never affected by the arrival of a time travelling Cell either dumbass.

>both have enthusiastic workers behind them.
Nah Toei only cares about Precure.

>how the hell did trunks train his ssj2 to be so efficient it outclasses ssj3

Plot bullshit.
It's logically fucking retarded for SSJ2 to outclass Goku with SSJ3. Hell the only one who's able to outclass SSJ3 goku with SSJ2 is Gohan and the fusions.

Tien's love interest is his little boytoy Chiaotzu.

The oldest timeline will ALWAYS be the timeline where Goku killed Freeza.

Which fucking timeline Goku is Zamasu?

vegeta did it as well in BoG, got more hits than jobku SSJ3

...

Vegeta usurpation=throwaway arc
Goku usurpation=threat to existence itself
Oh Vegeta, why don't you just give up?

>Except Unseen Trunks timeline was never affected by the arrival of a time travelling Cell either dumbass.
How do you know? The Unseen timeline has trunks arriving in the past. This means it ALSO must have had Time Traveling Cell arrive. Why he didn't succeed or cause the future to change is unknown, perhaps he was killed by the much stronger androids? Regardless, he must have been there, because he caused the first of the splits. All subsequent timelines will have to have him.

wasn't it yamcha?

are we going to see SSB Gogeta

1 Main timeline (cell from timeline 3 came here)
2 F.Trunks timeline (the one Black and Zamasu are killing atm)
3 Another F.Trunks timeline, except in this one he was killed by cell
4 The one F trunks from timeline 4 went to before going back to the future.

Black is likely coming from the 4th timeline while Zamasu comes from the 1st one.
What the fuck they are doing In the 2nd timeline is anyone's guess.

It can reconcile Cell's timeline, as explained here

Yes, will be needed to fight Zaku's potara fusion.

Black said he's in that timeline specifically because there's no God of Destruction there.

Truly the best form

...

>This means it ALSO must have had Time Traveling Cell arrive.
No. No it doesn't. Because this Trunks came first, so there was no Cell to be sleeping around in the past that that Trunks went to then.
>But Cell mentioned Trunks killing Frieza
Toriyama fucked up. That line is a plothole either way. It's completely impossible because if Cell knew about that fight then he would've already been there with the and Trunks wouldv'e known about Cell and would not have been surprise killed by him. Cell says Trunks was going to back in time to tell everyone he defeated the Androids, probably with a remote he got from the OTHER unseen timeline.

Zamasu can't go back the past though, if went in that timeline, it would be after/during events of buu

tfw the people arguing in this thread have put more thought into the story than toriyama and toei combined

Isn't Goku SSJ2 already stronger than Zamasu?

I don't get what you're saying at all. The "Main" timeline of the show is the newest timeline. It's the one that's split the most.

Yes.

>Toriyama fucked up. That line is a plothole either way.
Yeah, that's the only thing that doesn't add up in Cell's story. If he said Goku killed Freeza, then everything would be fine.

You're probably right.

Everyone does faggot.
Which is why Dragon ball Super is all but outright tanking Dragonballs popularity across the fucking globe.

Training with SSJ2 =/= being able to go toe to toe with fucking SSJ3. It just does not.

That's not how the internal logic of Dragon Ball fucking works.

We are talking about plot here, not hiding behind the factoids of the story.
I'm stating that what they did was fucking stupid and lazy.

And the reason he doesn't go USSJ2 even though it would make sense if he had to resort to that to hold his own against the pure power output of SSJ3 but him going SSJ3 PERIOD would have been cool.

We don't actually know how goku attained SSJ3. No clue.
He COULD have gained it form training. So if he could PERFECT SSJ2 so much that it's almost on par with SSJ3 then why didn't he just..you know...GO BEYOND THAT?

>No. No it doesn't. Because this Trunks came first
This trunks never made his trip, user. He died. Cell arrived instead, 1 year before Trunk's first trip. Cell causes the first split.

>Toriyama fucked up.
Plenty, but we're autistically trying to make sense of this shit so you can't just ignore important indicators like that .
>It's completely impossible because if Cell knew about that fight then he would've already been there with the and Trunks wouldv'e known about Cell
Trunks only found out about Cell on his SECOND trip. He killed Frieza in his first trip. Cell must come from a time in which trunks made his first trip, but not his second.

Plot bullshit
It was hanwaived by everyone because it's canon that Vegeta pulls out retarded short term OH GOD IM GUNNA DIE power when he's desperate or highly emotional...before he gets his shit slapped.

It's not an indication that SSJ2 is some kind of perfected true SSJ form based off of a scene that can be considered a bit of a joke.

It's just a multiplier.

If his Base form is stronger then that's that, but the big factor is the amount of Ki that's used up. SSJ3's transformation uses up a lot, and even then, simply maintaining the form in a living body is extremely difficult.

Just think about Trunks' SSJ2 to be a "Full Power" variant, in that it uses very little Ki to transform and to maintain the form.

There's a reason Cell Saga Goku and Gohan were so strong even without using SSJ2, and it wasn't just because their Base forms were stronger, it was all about how much power was available to them after transforming.

When you factor in that Trunks is a Half-Saiyan like Gohan, you have to consider how strong he can get by attempting to master the SSJ2 transformation like Gohan did SSJ.

They've been showing us what happened infront of our noses

>Training with SSJ2 =/= being able to go toe to toe with fucking SSJ3. It just does not.
it's a multiplier so yes, just like how there are beings who don't need SSJ transformations to be strong, a SSJ3 doesn't equate to being stronger than another persons SSJ2. Or did you think SSJ3 gotenks was stronger than SSJ Vegito?

>Training with SSJ2 =/= being able to go toe to toe with fucking SSJ3. It just does not.
user, not the guy you're arguing with and I agree Super is a big mess, but SS is ultimately a multiplier. The stronger trunks is in base, the closer he can come as a SS2 to a weaker fighter's next transformation.

>This trunks never made his trip, user.

Yes he did dumbass. That's how he was able to defeat the Androids in his timeline. If he was going to get killed before his first trip then the same thing would've happened to the other Trunks. Plus why he would bother going back in time to tell everyone he defeated the Androids for his FIRST trip? What would they care?

It's in Fusions as a StreetPass Fusion, so it's not even in the normal gameplay of the game.

I don't think anyone at Toei or Bandai Namco cares about that Gogeta.

I was memed into watching precure from Cred Forums. the fights only last like 2 minutes so it's no wonder it has ok animation.

>Yes he did dumbass.
I meant his second trip. He made his first trip, yes, but it cannot have been earlier than Cell's arrival, because then THAT would be the first split that all subsequent timelines have.

>Trunks only found out about Cell on his SECOND trip.

Yeah, and it was the exact same Trunks we met the first time. Meaning he didn't get killed.

Cell's arrival never fucking happened with the Trunks got that killed. We never even saw the past that that Trunks went to at all, not even for a second.

>Yeah, and it was the exact same Trunks we met the first time. Meaning he didn't get killed.
The trunks we know didn't get killed. The unseen trunks was. This trunks is not the trunks we know, he's from a timeline that was affected by cell and his first trip, but not his second.

>Cell's arrival never fucking happened with the Trunks got that killed.

Because of how time travel works, it must have, since it was the first split. Every timeline was affected by it except future trunk's own.

>That's how he was able to defeat the Androids in his timeline
In that timeline the androids weren't defeated, they just killed Gero before he could awaken them.

Half saiyans mature earlier and have higher potential then pure saiyans. However Gohan is a canon fucking mutant.

He's a fighting chad who's so blessed that he only has to do morning calisthenics everyday and STILL easily surpass kid buu saga vegeta.
Without going super saiyajin 2.

Secondly more power output with a shorter time limit = more dead more faster.
Having more ki does not mean you have more power. It just means they can continue to pump out relatively high levels of power longer but still get fucking steamrolled by someone significantly more powerful.

Once again.
MORE EFFICIENT USE OF KI =/= MORE POWERFUL KI ATTACKS. Just more of them.

Fucks sake, if having more or infinite ki at their disposal was all it took to be invincible or super powerful then the androids should have been unstoppable.

The way you word everything is so annoying awkward. When you say "he's from a timeline that was affected by cell and his first trip" are you still talking bout the "not the Trunks we know?" Because the"not the Trunks we know" was never affected by any Cell trips. He got killed by a Cell that had never time traveled.

>In that timeline the androids weren't defeated,

Yes they were, that's why Cell had to go back to the past, to find new androids.

>Because of how time travel works, it must have, since it was the first split.

That's backwards logic made by your false assumpton that the Future Trunks timeline is the real timeline. It wouldn't make any sense for Cell to travel to the unseen future and then go back to the past, are you crazy?

A multiplier and also an adapter. Training with the most powerful beings on Earth and discovering you can get to levels you just couldn't even imagine must have been one hell of an incentive. Half of Trunk's blood is the one of a warrior with unlimited capacities, I don(t see why him leaping a few steps at one single time is surprising. Saiyans are a born to fight species. You can't expect them to only level up through years and years of training.

I used to think the time travel in DBZ made perfect sense and avoided plot holes since each travel created an alternate timeline/universe but something is fucky here.

whoever asked for Babari Zamasu porn, it's on /y/ now

Why does Black Goku's body want to kill Goku so bad?

>Because the"not the Trunks we know" was never affected by any Cell trips. He got killed by a Cell that had never time traveled.

He was killed by the Cell who time traveled to the show's main timeline, but his timeline MUST have been affected by cell's travel, because it is a timeline where TRUNKS time traveled at least once. Since cell went to a time period BEFORE trunk's first time travel, the unseen trunk's timeline must have been affected by both cell's trip and trunk's first trip.

Your line of reasoning would only make sense if goku's base form was weaker then trunks base form.

1x2 will never equal 1000

You do realize that Goku's is leagues stronger then Trunks at base AND SSJ3 is a far higher multiplier correct?

It's more complicated than it needs to be and there's that stupid line Cell made about Gero observing Trunks killing Frieza but it's not THAT complicated. I explained everything clearly in >but his timeline MUST have been affected by cell's travel, because it is a timeline where TRUNKS time traveled at least once.
No. Just no.

And that would be where? People who shit on Super just keep on making gratuitous declarations like that, it's becoming really obvious.

Reminder that no villain has actually been beaten by SS3

Hirudegarn.

And canonically speaking the only person to beat someone with SSJ2 was Gohan.

>That's backwards logic made by your false assumpton that the Future Trunks timeline is the real timeline
It is based on the fact that the cell we know (of the unseen timeline) mentions trunks killed frieza in his timeline's past.
Since we know Future Trunks didn't kill Frieza in his OWN timeline, we know his timeline wasn't affected by his own trip, and so is the likeliest candidate for the main, unaffected timeline that never had Unseen Timeline's Cell arrive.
There's also the fact that the androids are weaker in future trunk's timeline. Since the conjecture is Cell's arrival from the unseen timeline caused that discrepancy, more reason to believe cell's arrival never affected Future Trunk's timeline.

>You do realize that Goku's is leagues stronger then Trunks at base
Prove it?

Have you forgotten Trunks is a halfbreed with super potential, who didn't laze around like Gohan?

>It is based on the fact that the cell we know (of the unseen timeline) mentions trunks killed frieza in his timeline's past.

Shut up with this fucking line. It doesn't make sense no matter what, just ignore it. You're trying to explain a hole Toriyama dug himself into with stupid madeup bullshit that makes no sense and runs on circular logic.

notto canon
Future Dabura was kinda implied in the anime

Then perhaps they were destroyed when they were hibernating? Because in no way Cell could have killed Trunks after being trained in the past. Trunks was already stronger than Cell when he came back to his time.

Cell killed Trunks because it was a surprise attack. This Trunk didn't know Cell existed.

>No. Just no.
Cell literally says so.

>Shut up with this fucking line. It doesn't make sense no matter what, just ignore it. You're trying to explain a hole Toriyama dug himself into with stupid madeup bullshit
That IS the whole point of this discussion, user. You can't try to argue about the proper time-travel canon and just discount evidence that contradicts what you say.

Also we don't actually know what training the Unseen Trunks did, if any.

To put into perspective how inflated powerlevels are we just need to take a look at RoF.

Gohan got shitstomped by first form frieza, first form frieza is not even 1% of his maximum power (without taking into account golden form).
Now, after defeating SSJ Gohan, who at the very least should be as strong as perfect cell he used his final form which is roughly 200x times stronger than his first form at 100%.

Goku fought someone who was at minimum, 200x stronger than Perfect Cell and to top it off he has at least 400x multiplier to increase his base power.

Current Goku in his SSJ2 form should be at the very least 1000x times stronger than his SSJ2 from the Buu saga.

>Because in no way Cell could have killed Trunks after being trained in the past.
Unseen Trunks wasn't trained in the past, he only delivered the warning. He was killed before he could return the second time.

You're not giving any evidence either. You're just trying to explain a plot hole line with made up head canon. Cut it out.

Trunks was SSJ 1 in the anime, SSJ2 in the manga but only towards the very end of the fight.

>You're not giving any evidence either
The line is in the manga, and it IS evidence.
If you can find what's wrong with my interpretation without just trying to discount evidence like that, I'm all ears.

mango?

But...but..He's half saiyan and multipliers and he trained really hard and...uh....

what? Trunks is a half saiyan who never stopped training, of course he is stronger. This is the canon since saiyan arc.

Okay, we'll play by your rules.
So you say that the Unseen Trunks timeline was affected by Cell.
Where did this Cell come from exactly? What timeline? Hm?

Nope, because it's not Toriyama's outline.

I wanna know how Black slaugheted the other Goku

>still waiting

You better not be typing out 10 paragraphs of badly written crap because I'm not reading it if so.
And Im not accepting "I don't know." as a valid answer.
And it better not be from some unspoken of 5th timeline either.

When trunks woke up he seriously tried to take Goku's head off with a punch. One that was easily blocked by Goku.

Canon proof.
Secondly, the only half breed that is significantly more powerful then their parents or will grow to be significantly more powerful overall is still Gohan.
Because he is a fucking mutant.
Trunks at no point has proven that he's that much more powerful.
Trunks at no point has proven in any way, even the fucking SLIGHTEST way that he's more powerful then Goku in base.
Trunks's "perfected SSJ2" forcing SSJ3 Goku to tap into god ki to win against him is just outright fucking bullshit that absolutely DESTROYS all internal consistency and you should damned well know that.

The moment I saw SSJ2 Trunks fighting against Black was the exact fucking moment I realized that nothing about Super is going to ever make a lick of fucking sense.

I also realized that the reason that they shat on the ultra form or him going ssj3 was because of marketing reasons and it's cheaper for the anime creators to just make their trunks model hair blue.
Cheap assholes.

That is a good question user, and the biggest hole of this time traveling mess.
Here's the resulting counter-problem: where was cell in f.trunk's timeline?

>where was cell in f.trunk's timeline?

Trunks blew him up idiot
youtube.com/watch?v=s08Oo9x7v18

Yeah I know about that. But it's not in anime proper and I'm going to ignore it till it's animated.

Trunks didn't beat the androids in a fight. Didn't he just use the android cut off switch that bulma made to kill them?

>Secondly, the only half breed that is significantly more powerful then their parents or will grow to be significantly more powerful overall is still Gohan.
>Because he is a fucking mutant.
nope see Where did you even get mutant from lmao?

No, stupid, the Cell that went to the past, not the cell that was born in the future.

Cell's time travel is the earliest one. Therefore it affects all timelines but one. If Cell's Unseen timeline is the original, he'd have to 1. Be SOMEWHERE in F.Trunks' timeline, and 2. Somehow be affected by F.Trunk's trip, but not his own which came earlier.

This is the real messy problem with the timelines. If F.Trunks' timeline is not the original, he has no way of messing with the original.

The Cell that went to the past was killed by fucking Gohan. Christ.

Gohan in canon trained for less then a week on Kai world and was about as strong as SSJ3 in his SSJ2 form.
A FUCKING WEEK!

After his power was unlocked he was well over ten times as strong ass SSJ3 goku.

If Trunks was as gifted as you claim then he should have been able to fucking TANK Dabura easily without going SSJ2.
And no, Dabura wasn't out getting some super training some fucking where that would make him far more powerful then his prime timeline version.
Trunks was struggling like a motherfucker.

here is gohan even mentioning he will be outclassed by the tailless hybrids

Are you a fucking idiot? The cell that went to the past was killed by Gohan in the "MAIN", newest TIMELINE. There's at least 3 more. Are you saying F.Gohan killed him? Because that's not mentioned, and not likely possible since he couldn't even kill the fucking weakest version of the androids.

>Trunks was struggling like a motherfucker.
Because he was SS1.

For fucks sake.
The Cell from Unseen Trunks timeline was killed by Gohan.
Main timeline Cell was killed by Krillin.
Future Trunks Cell was killed by Future Trunks.
The last Cell we never meet or hear about.
That's all of them accounted for. This isn't that hard.

>bay
>Not Bee, to go with Buu as it should
also
>dbz

A fucking mutant.

Nowhere did or do kid Trunks or kid Goten show massive boosts of power like Gohan.
This isn't even up for debate.

Future Trunks at no point, even after training with Vegeta for fucking YEARS was able to become more powerful then Vegeta or even kid Gohan or Goku.
Period.
They can be powerful yes, they mature earlier, yes. But Gohan is a special case.

Trunks being that powerful becuase "halfbreed saiyans" flys in the face of all established canon.

And no I didn't mean F. Gohan. I meant SSJ2 Gohan. You know, the one where they spent an entire episode Kamehameha-ing him? That Cell came from a future where he killed Unseen Trunks. That part isn't up for debate.

Oh christ.
Listen user, do you realize that every new timeline creates time CLONES?

Unseen Cell was killed by Gohan in one timeline.
But there are 2 or three more timelines when he'd also appear, the one created by trunk's first trip, the one created by the second trip, and the one created by his own trip.

Gohan killed the Unseen Cell in the timeline created by Trunk's SECOND trip. If F.Trunks is indeed from the timeline created by Unseen Cell's trip, where was he?

>But there are 2 or three more timelines when he'd also appear

I can't facepalm any harder. I already explained what happened to all the Cells from all the timelines.
Can I PLEASE talk to someone who isn't a retard?

the other cell would probably be the most powerful cell even in its base form

what? goten and trunks got SSJ at ~7 years old, of course they got more potential than gohan

see

>able to become more powerful then Vegeta or even kid Gohan or Goku.
>Period.
Because Goku was the better teacher, and they found a better training method. That's why F.Trunks didn't catch up to them in the past.

Never shows anything like that in a single fight ever in all of Dragon Ball.
Nor does future Trunks.

If his potential is so vast and great then he should have been SSJ2 level in power without needing to go SSJ2.
I mean he's almost as strong as SSJ3 while in SSJ2.
And he's been training with SSJ1 for well over half his life.

>I already explained what happened to all the Cells from all the timelines.
No, you didn't you dope. You're confusing the cell born in the FUTURE of every timeline, with the Cell in the past of every timeline but the original one.

There's 2 sets of cells. Krillin killed the one what WOULD have been born in the future of the main timeline. F.Trunks killed the one that was born in the FUTURE of his own timeline.
Gohan killed the one that went to the past of his OWN, the "main" timeline, but who killed the cell that went to the past of F.Trunk's timeline, if F.Trunk's timeline isn't the original?

I assume it's whoever posed the Babari pics

Am I being trolled?

>If his potential is so vast and great then he should have been SSJ2 level in power without needing to go SSJ2.
Says who? He never got Goku's training. He trained with his dad, and then by himself. He came close to P.Cell's power as a SS1, but he wasn't as strong as Gohan's perfected SS1.

Oh sorry, I missed this post amongst all the arguing.

Thanks.

Future Trunks didn't get SSj1 till he was 13 and he got his shit slapped every day by every other person.
TEEN GOHAN got SSJ1 and maintained that shit as a 13 year old for weeks THEN with SSJ2 on his own.

Trunks is the same age Gohan was when he broke his foot in Perfect Cells ass.
And Chibi Trunks has been training with Vegeta and Goten since he could walk.
Where is all of that potential bruh?
Little fucker can't even do the ultra saiyajin thing.

Goku is a terrible fucking teacher. The only person who he could ever train effectively is someone who's as mindlessly battle enthused as he is and is a natural.

Piccolo taught him how to be a powerhouse in a few months and goku in a year was only able to teach him how to stay as a ssj1 for a week then let a robot he's known for less then a minute get killed in front of him for rage boost points.

I reiterate. GOHAN IS A FUCKING MUTANT!
Even fucking Vegeta knows this shit and he never complements anyone. Did he say bring kid trunks and kid goten to fight in the tournament? Hell no. He said Gohan.

To put it in terms you may understand: You're confusing kid trunks for f.trunks.

Kid Trunks is born in every timeline. F.Trunks appears in the main timeline because he traveled there, but he also appears in every timeline created after his first trip. Do you still not get it? The cell krillin killed, the cell F.Trunks killed, both were NATIVE to their own timelines. But the Unseen Cell that Gohan killed wasn't, and if the unseen timeline is truly the original, he'd have to also be in the F.Trunks timeline's past.

You're welcome.

I'm pretty thirsty for anything with bottom Zamasu.

That's anime only
In the manga he always had SSJ

I'm not confusing anything.
There's 4 timelines that we see or hear about, and 4 Cells.
I just explained what happened to each one. All four. That should be the end of it. I don't know where you're getting this "No, you still haven't explained what happened to X Cell." crap.

>Goku is a terrible fucking teacher.
Goku made Gohan into the strongest character of the series in 1 year because he discovered a training method that was a thousand times more effective than the other ones. He is canonically the best teacher in the entire series.

Uh..no.
Gohan didn't train with Goku on that planet. Gohan trained alone and was able, on his own to get near SSJ3 power as a SSJ2. Not because of training, but because he's a fucking mutant.

Trunks should have been able to equal untrained SSJ2 Gohan as a SSJ1 and be able to not only hold his own but easily dispatch that guy.

This is bullshit.

>There's 4 timelines that we see or hear about, and 4 Cells.

There's 2 cells per timeline in every timeline except the "original" one, user. That's what you're missing. Every timeline has a NATIVE cell, and every timeline but the original has a time-traveling version of the unseen cell. You only accounted for ONE version of the unseen cell, and missed the one that would have to be in F.Trunk's timeline IF F.Trunk's timeline is not the original one.

>There's 2 cells per timeline

Stop talking.

>Gohan didn't train with Goku on that planet
In the room of spirit and time, stupid.
What happened in the Kai planet wasn't training, it was a bullshit power up. And what happened in the Kai planet was long AFTER Goku had given Gohan a huge powerup, that Trunks never received.That's why F.Trunks is still behind Gohan during the Buu Saga.

>Goku made Gohan into the strongest character of the series in 1 year because he discovered a training method that was a thousand times more effective than the other ones. He is canonically the best teacher in the entire series.

...
You're fucking retarded.
If that fucking teaching method worked then He'd have gone SSJ2 himself.
He didn't.

Piccolo in two fucking months made him effectively the strongest Z fighter outside of himself and that was mostly just him beating the basics into him and teaching him how to control his goddamned power.

His teaching method was to let a robot gohan had only seen for a day at most get killed in front of him.

I don't recall Cell saying anything about Trunks killing Freeza. I even checked.

Start thinking, speed reader. There's 2 trunks per timeline as well.

He says something like "Dr. Gero could've gotten more cells from Trunks when he fought Frieza, but he had enough."

No user. There could be 2 Trunks in one timeline, but that doesn't mean there's 7-8 Trunks in total. There's 4 Trunks. Just like Cell. They just move around.

>If that fucking teaching method worked
Did you miss the part where Goku was almost as strong as Gohan when they faced cell, and LEAGUES stronger than everyone else, Trunks and Vegeta included? What Gohan did was discover the SS2 transformation before Goku, but both benefited from his training enormously.

Also in that picture there's currently ZERO Trunks in Future timeline, one dead trunks in the Unseen Timeline, two Trunks in the main timeline, and another dead or alive Trunks in the Literally Never Seen At All timeline. 0 + 1 + 2 + 1 = 4.

So why didn't Zamasu get erased from all timelines?

Oh, that's right. I took that to mean the timeline they were currently at, but that wouldn't make sense.
Which, par for the course for Toriyama.

beerus a shit

The sad thing is that no matter which way you look at it there's going to be some unexplained things that don't make sense.

Unseen Future Trunks being the original, pure timeline simply raises the least amount of questions.

No stupid.
Gohan has ALWAYS been a goddamend mutant with hidden horrifyingly huge power levels.
That's his whole fucking thing. He's a fucking mutant.
Goku didn't give Gohan a single solitary fucking thing that he didn't already fucking have.

F.Trunks is behind Gohan because Gohan is a fucking mutant.

This is a canon thing that has been part of DBZ since forever.

Trunks with almost no training from anyone outside of Gohan(who is a better teacher then Goku) was able to master SSJ2 on his own on earth with no one to face or train with so well that he's able to equal SSJ3 but not on his own master SSJ1 so that it was strong enough to equal a sloppy untrained SSJ2 Gohan?
Bullshit.

im confused when goku was fighting dog his blows with him caused shockwaves that wrecked planets. why is he struggling

>Goku didn't give Gohan a single solitary fucking thing that he didn't already fucking have.

user, he made gohan go from "weakest nonhuman" to "Strongest fighter of the time". He himself received a nearly equal power boost. The training was extremely effective for both of them, they both went from being weaker than androids to almost as strong as perfect cell.
If the training worked on Goku, why are you pretending it didn't on Gohan?

Here is even future gohan saying with more 1on1 training trunks would surpass him


food for thought
why wasn't gohan ssj2 already if he was a mutant? hmm

Which is fucking pointless considering that he still could have gotten his shit slapped sideways by Cell at the end.
Secondly, that does not explain how SSJ2 Trunks was able to equal SSJ3 Goku but his well trained SSJ1 was not able to equal sloppy as fuck untrained SSJ2 Gohan.

Did F.Trunks get some magical Goku Training in the future I'm no aware of?

Gohan was the strongest being on the earth when he was barely out of diapers.

Goku did fuck and all and you stating something as ludicrous as Goku's training in the time chamber somehow making Gohan what he is now flys in the face of every single fucking piece of established canon we have.

see That is gohan without goku, a weakling who died

For the same reason Goku's magical training didn't help him go SSJ2 on his own in the time chamber.

And the same reason Trunks wasn't able to train to a high enough level to take out a pussy like dadebil without going SSJ2.

canon already showed gohan needed goku's training, since we know future gohan was weaker than future trunks

>Which is fucking pointless considering that he still could have gotten his shit slapped sideways by Cell at the end.
It got him to a level roughly equal to cell's. He was the weakest nonhuman before. How is that pointless?

>Secondly, that does not explain how SSJ2 Trunks was able to equal SSJ3 Goku but his well trained SSJ1 was not able to equal sloppy as fuck untrained SSJ2
But it did, Trunks at SS1 did roughly as well as Gohan SS2 against Dabra, that is to say "not very well". When trunks went SS2 he crushed Dabra.

what? Goku and Gohan never went SSJ2 in the time chamber. Gohan needed an emotional reaction. Similar to Trunks against dabura.

Gohan by himself, with fuck and all in the way of teachers, help, senzu beans, training chambers, or anything was able to train and take on both androids on numerous occasions and stalemate them at best.

The only thing goku gave gohan was access to all of the shit he got during the adventurous childhood that gohan himself was robbed of.

Gohan did for a split second unless I'm remembering filler

>He was the weakest nonhuman before.
Who exactly are you counting here? The only non-human I can think of that's definitely stronger than Goku pre-training was Piccolo after fusing with Kami.

user, the thing is: Unseen's Cell's past burrowed form was split among multiple timelines, creating time clones. Every trip trunks made made a new timeline, duplicating him as well. That's why his time clones persist in every timeline. That's why there's 2 cells in every timeline created by trunks: the cell that traveled and burrowed, and the cell that was going to be born.

>It got him to a level roughly equal to cell's. He was the weakest nonhuman before. How is that pointless?
Two people that can kind of take on a cell who's playing around is not much.
He was counting on Gohan going SSJ2 or whatever else. It's canon.

>But it did, Trunks at SS1 did roughly as well as Gohan SS2 against Dabra, that is to say "not very well". When trunks went SS2 he crushed Dabra.
Trunks at SSJ1 was getting his shit slapped WITH the fucking Z sword and he even lead to the death of the kaioshin and god of death. Untrained Gohan was easily holding his own but making amature mistakes at best.
It would have been a stomp.

Goku couldn't make himself go SSJ2. Because he simply didn't have it in him and he needed YEARS of hard trainining to get it.
Gohan didn't.

Gohan's potential and temporary boosts of power that put him on par with or well above the villian of the moment has been a plot point since everyone started calling Dragonball DragonballZ.

And here I was hoping your dumb ass went to bed or something.

>Who exactly are you counting here?
Gohan, user.

But when Goku entered the room of spirit and time with Gohan, he was weaker than Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks and even the androids. His 1 year of training made him so strong he completely outclassed vegeta, even after he went into the RoS&T a second year. And Gohan followed his same training program, and became noticeably stronger than even Goku.

it was never a stalemate, he always lost and escaped when they got bored

This is the true power of gohan without goku.

I'm sorry this topic makes your head spin, user.

Yeah ok whatever. I'll humor you.

>Unseen's Cell's past burrowed form was split among multiple timelines,

Prove it.

Vegeta ss2 was stronger than ss3 goku in bog
Why wouldn't a similarly aged trunks be the same?

be a "mutant" and the best saiyan ever

LOSE YOUR LIFE TO ANDROIDS LMAO

Because time travel makes parallel universes, user. And Both Unseen Cell and Lab Cell were already there every time trunks made a parallel universe.
Why would you think only lab cell would get time cloned, but not unseen cell?

Comparing post-training Vegeta+Trunks with pre-training Goku to prove the effectiveness of Goku's training program seems wrong. You should be comparing pre-training Vegeta+Trunks and pre-training Goku and then consider their gains. Pre-training Goku was defiitely stronger than Trunks and arguably also stronger than Vegeta. If Zenkai boosts were still a thing, being knocked out by the heart virus for so long should have also boosted his powers a bit.

>Vegeta ss2 was stronger than ss3 goku in bog
That may just be the actually dumbest thing among all the fucking dumb things DBS has done.

Nobody got cloned bud.

that was in BoG by toriyama

pre-training goku was weaker than pre-training vegeta

>Nobody got cloned bud.
Dude, what do you think Kid Trunks and Future trunks ARE? Why do you think Goku died in one timeline but is alive in the main one? Bulma? Mai? They're time clones, with different histories.

Time Clones get made every time the timeline is split. Since Unseen Cell was present every time Trunks made a new timeline, he'll have been cloned as well.

I don't think you know what clone means. They're parallel versions, they're not clones.

Piccolo doesn't know how strong Goku was after he trained for the Androids after Future Trunk's warning. Piccolo was just guessing. When goku fought Android 20, he wasn't in his top condition.

He's stalemated them but they always outlasted him.
He canonically trained himself to become a supersaiyan and fight well enough to take both of them on by himself and even slightly outclass them in power. But there are two of them and while his ki pool is immense it will run out, theirs will not.

He has no senzu beans. He has no help from anyone, he has no super skill to pull out of his ass nor a billion and 1 masters to go to and learn from.

He's just by himself in the future trying to protect the world and keep his dumbass little brother from getting killed and training him.

Tell me. When would he have the time to train and form who?
I know F.Trunks was trained by the supreme kai and that and some bullshit about half saiyans all having potential was the reason given for his retardedly high power boost.

What did Gohan have? Shit, if Piccolo had taught him the special beam canon or Krillian had taught him the Kienzan the android menace would have been over after he went supersaiyain 1.

Vegeta has always canon had last minute desperation power ups before he gets his shit absolutely slapped. That was no acception. And basing Trunks powerlevel and using it as justification why his SSJ2 is strong enough to take on SSJ3 Goku equally is fucking retarded.

Don't go arguing semantics now. Time clones are parallel versions. There will be parallel versions of burrowed unseen cell for every timeline trunks split, because he was present every time trunks split the timeline.

>There will be parallel versions of burrowed unseen cell for every timeline trunks split,

Then where is he?

so from what i gather, zamasu gave goku the heart virus?

Isn't that the question I'm asking you? He must have a parallel versions, because he was there when the parallel universe was made. So if Trunk's timeline isn't the original one unaffected by Unseen Cell's arrival, where was he?

Someone said it was a side-effect of the Kaioken.
I liked it so much that I decided to make it my personal headcanon.
Explains why Goku did not teach it to the other Z fighters and why it's so super dangerous.

>He must have a parallel versions, because he was there when the parallel universe was made.

I never once explained how the timelines work in a way that that would have happened.

you know the mystery is how cell went to the current timeline and not the other timeline the dead trunks went to

I am the author of all your pain Goku! It was me, Zamasu!

That wasnt super

It happened in the movie AND super.

If Goku's lips are virgin, what the fuck did they do here?

>He canonically trained himself to become a supersaiyan
So did goku and vegeta

Trunks didn't even need it since his potential allowed him to become SSJ easily

Next episode shows the gang losing again, there's no fucking way anybody can defeat zamasu and black. No Gogeta or Vegito either unless they took some Potara with them.

>I never once explained how the timelines work in a way that that would have happened.
But it's a fact that that's a thing. What do you think unseen trunks IS? He's a parallel version of the future trunks who went to the past. He was killed by Cell.

Why are you arguing unseen cell ONLY magically avoided having parallel universe versions of himself?

Would Zamasu be as lewd in Goku's body as he is in his own.

That was anime-only, didn't happen in the manga so not canon, therefore never happened.

>But it's a fact that that's a thing.

According to YOU. So why are you asking ME to explain YOUR plotholes?

And you know what, if Chiaozu had survived and taught Gohan, shit would have been ridiculous.

Want to know why?
The crane school has some of the most brutal and effective techniques in DBZ period.

Can you imagine Gohan with the tribeam attack? Or the fucking dodon ray?

The point is he needed gokus training, he isn't a mutant

Just another half saiyan who is weaker than tailless half saiyans

Future trunks only had gohan until After that he was by himself and managed to outdo future gohan in strength as expected

Fug

I love how even the japanese make no difference between what happens in the manga or the anime, but people like you still need to judge what is canon or not. It's the Dragon Ball Franchise, everything is official and canon. What is not is the fan-made shit.

>According to YOU
According the show, splitting the timeline creates 2 identical ones save for the event that split them. You go head and try explaining why, according to you, ONLY unseen cell avoided getting parallel versions of himself every time the timeline was split, if he was there prior to every split trunks caused.

Goku got it by accident and vegeta had to almost die to get his infamous everything is fucked desperation power boost.

Gohan had fuck and all training and had to do it himself without gravity chambers or anything. Just luck.

And yeah, his potential was realized with an easy tranformation into SSJ 1. It pretty much stopped there. He's done fuck and all since then and his power levels have not grown appreciably since then even when you consider that he's training with Vegeta constantly and always spars with Gohan.

I reiterate, F.Trunks being able to as a SSJ2 equal SSJ3 Goku is absolute bullshit.

Eskimo kiss

>if he was there prior to every split trunks caused.

But I don't believe this. I believe Unseen Cell came first. What the fuck.

It matters because toriyama doesn't go look in the anime to check the plot

Which is why he had goku question why would he kiss while married

Are you fucking retarded, Trunks himself has made multiple trips into the same fucking timeline. That fact alone disproves the fucking autism you've been spewing in this thread.

There's only 1 Cell in each timeline, and it's killed in every one that Future Trunks travels to because they bomb Gero's lab.

Only 1 Cell time traveled, from a future where Trunks successfully killed the androids. He time traveled to the past.

Our Future Trunks travels to that past, kills lab Cell, watches Gohan kill Time Travel Cell, and goes back to his time and kills his Cell. There's no more time travel Cell because he dies in the womb when the first Trunks travels back in time to bomb Gero's lab.

It did not stop there as I said, he surpassed future gohan by himself in the future then did some hyperbolic training BY HIMSELF in the past timeline

He didn't train with vegeta like how gohan did with goku.

Then he kept training by himself in the future until he did some z sword training with kaioshin

He actually got SSJ2 by himself unlike gohan

The point is Gohan is a mutant and has shown potential that neither version of Trunks nor Goten has ever shown.

Hell Goten practically spends all of his waking time with Goku, when he's not out with trunks or studying, and he's still a relative scrub.

F.Trunks had Vegeta, Goku, basically everyone in the fucking past and the supreme kais to learn from.

Gohan had nothing but his training with Piccolo and what little time he had with Goku, You remember? Goku?
He had to have come back from outerspace and he was around gohan for years right? He had to have sparred with and trained him during that time a bit.

So...where was this super duper special training that would allow him to defeat the androids easily? Nothing?
Absolutely nothing/

I reiterate.
Gohan is a fucking mutant and he, with his training from piccolo and the bare minimum of training from goku was able to go super saiyan on his own and fight BOTH of the androids on his own.

No senzu beans, no gravity chambers, no room of space and time, no king kai giving him helpful hints, no supreme kai showing up and giving him training, no fucking nothing.

And he was able to hold them off to lower the loss of life on the planet on his own.

He basically had to use super dragonballs to do what Ginyu did with a simple technique. Ginyu confirmed to be more skilled than a god kaioshen.

How was he a mutant? He died to the androids

Gohan will only matter again if a baddie kills Piccolo

Cut him a break, he only had like 13 years to train or something.

Remember guldo who could freeze time longer than .1 second? Yeah good times

I'm sorry, but it's fucking canon that future gohan was stronger then future trunks up until future trunks went into the room of spirit and time.
Which is fucking where his "Trunks did it by himself" thing fucking ends.
He didn't.
He also had time to train by himself and even probably had a fucking gravity chamber built by his mother.

At no point after that fact did he actually do anything alone or without help.

You're full of shit.

Maybe we get a Piccolo centric arc next time

You really can't follow along can you.

Gohan without goku = weaker than future trunks at mecha freeze, didn't go SSJ as a ~7 year old
Future trunks before first time travel = SSJ at the age of ~7, surpassed future gohan by himself

how is it canon?
Look at this panel Trunks then was ~13

Future gohan by canon was weaker than trunks

>But I don't believe this. I believe Unseen Cell came first. What the fuck.
Look up what "Prior" means. He did come first. He was there every time trunks arrived and split time.

>That fact alone disproves the fucking autism you've been spewing in this thread.
How?

>There's only 1 Cell in each timeline, and it's killed in every one that Future Trunks travels to because they bomb Gero's lab.
Wrong, they only bomb gero's lab in the main timeline after trunk's second trip. That Cell survives, and is born in the future of every other timeline.
>Only 1 Cell time traveled, from a future where Trunks successfully killed the androids. He time traveled to the past.
Correct.
>Our Future Trunks travels to that past, watches Gohan kill Time Travel Cell
In one timeline. There's still a time travel cell in EVERY OTHER TIMELINE TRUNKS CREATED.

He basically trained himself with basically no help from anyone.
He went from a powerlevel of 60k to well into the tens of millions on his own WHILE taking on and constantly losing against immortal tireless and seemingly invincible androids.
Who else can boast a feat like that?

And Frieza is a mutant too. Got his shit slapped inside out by both goku and vegeta.

>Wrong, they only bomb gero's lab in the main timeline after trunk's second trip. That Cell survives,

This has to be a joke.

yeah but guldo was a fatfuck who would even get destroyed by yamcha is a straight up fight. Not the case with hit.

"That" meaning Lab Cell. Lab Cell is canonically born in at least 2 timelines. Lab Cell is not born in the main timeline, Krillin kills him.

Nobody said that Cell died, therefore he didn't so in 30 or so years the guys in that timeline would have to deal with their own Cell.

Hit was a fucking retard who used time stop wrong.

Gohan without Goku was canon stronger then Future Trunks up until he went into the fucking chamber of spirit and time with Vegeta.
Point out a single bit of evidence that says otherwise.
Fucks sake he got his shit absolutely fucking SLAPPED by the androids before he left to go to the past.
Gohan with one arm was stomping them into the fucking dirt and he's been fighting them since he was 11.

That says fucking nothing about future trunks being stronger then future gohan.
The fuck are you even saying?

Trunks wasn't 30 when Cell killed him.

It happened in Super too. When Beerus hit Bulma.

>Lab Cell is canonically born in at least 2 timelines.

Yeah? One of them was killed by Cell and the other he never learn anything about ever. He mightve gotten blown up in the lab too for all we know.

Agreed but his ability was stronger than that of a 1000 year old assassin. Seems crazy to me.

>He mightve gotten blown up in the lab too for all we know.
Unless the androids did it, unlikely, because they only discovered the sub-basement on Trunk's second trip, AFTER they met Unseen Timeline cell.

Whatever, it doesn't matter what happened to that Cell, because we never see even a single second of that timeline.

>you did well trunks
>you might even leave me in the dust in a few months

there

Good question user mmmmm

Sure.
But the fact remains that due to the timeline where F.Cell burrowed getting split twice, there's three timelines with both a lab cell, and a future cell.

this means that in every timeline except the original not affected by cell's trip, there is a future cell as well as a lab cell.

So this means that if Future Trunk's timeline is not the original, it would have a Future Cell that burrowed into the ground and would have emerged sometime when the weakest version of the androids did.
Where was he?

>But the fact remains that due to the timeline where F.Cell burrowed getting split twice,

Quit saying this. I don't believe this.

Toriyama Toei is a Hack.

...
Are you serious?
That's what all masters tell their students/fathers tell my sons.

At no point has it actually materialized into anything
Actual YEARS after fucking Gohan died, Trunks tried to take on the androids.
Guess what?
He didn't surpass Gohan.
He got his shit absolutely slapped.

What else could he really do in 0.1 second in a no-killing match? Just toss his opponents out of the ring while they're frozen? He could do that, but fans would be pissed.

he died underground of a heart attack in his nymph stage, a long time has already passed for cell to emerge

Do you agree or disagree that Future Cell arriving in the past was the first time-event that caused a split?

Do you agree or disagree that Trunks split the timeline a further 2 times AFTER Future Cell had already arrived?

Do you still think the Burrowed Future Cell magically disappeared from the timelines trunks split?

What the fuck are you two on about?
I'm lurking your convo and it starts to go off the rails.

Use something else besides "split." Timelines aren't "split," they're created.

For starters, he could use that time to HIT Goku, instead of using it to reposition himself, like he did at the start of the fight, which is the whole reason Goku was able to block his attacks.

He also could have used that time to NOT position himself where goku was throwing a kick.

There people fight at ludicrous speeds, .1 seconds is a lot of time.

I know what I'm going on. I don't know what the fuck half the stuff is saying though

My theory flows pretty damn well and while there's a couple of loose ends it makes a lot more sense than believing Future Trunks is what came first. Future Trunks coming first is unexplainable and impossible. Unseen Trunks coming first requires a tiny bit of head canon but not nearly as much as "explaining" F. Trunks coming first.

When did future cell arrive in canon universe? Was it before Future trunks arrived to fight frieza or after?

You gotta be more specific than Future Cell. Theres two of them.

They are created by an event that makes a divergent offshoot, a split.
Future Cell's arrival created the first alternate timeline.
Trunk's arrival created the second. Future Cell was already there burrowed, so he'll continue to exist in both of those timelines.
Trunks' return created the third. Same deal as before, Future Cell only reemerged after this. This is the Future Cell gohan kills.

There are still 2 more timelines with Future Cells, that would have emerged at some point after the androids appeared. If the Future Trunks timeline is not the original, where was the timeline's version of future cell?

LMAO you are actually a spic aren't you

Those are dialogue that authors do to state facts within the series without needing a narrator.

Did you think piccolo here was a master to vegeta his student? Here is another interesting piece of dialogue (right after that other panel I linked). Notice how gohan had to escape during his last encounter with the android, 1 year ago, and now he trained somemore. Now watch next

It's not a split, it's a parallel but still different world.

The cell that stole the time machine and arrived as an egg

What? They didn't even use 50% of their power? But gohan is a mutant right?! Surely he will survive this!

Before, about 1 year earlier.

He arrived a year before Trunks fought Frieza.

Why the fuck Trunks had it set to that time is never explained, Goku wasn't even around at that time, but that's when he came.

Then there is your answer, it was cell that changed the future of the canon universe and it was trunks who changed it further.

It's different because of the event that changed it. neither of trunks' arrivals affect burrowed cell, so he must necessarily be in both of the timelines created by Trunks.

and his dead, just by #17 himself

The greatest saiyan to ever live, the only mutant ever seen. Gohan.

>LMAO you are actually a spic aren't you
>Those are dialogue that authors do to state facts within the series without needing a narrator.
>Did you think piccolo here was a master to vegeta his student?

He fucking told him that to pump up his ego. It's not a fucking statement of fact. If it was, he would have been able to defeat at least one of the androids. He was not. He was nearly killed.

>Here is another interesting piece of dialogue (right after that other panel I linked). Notice how gohan had to escape during his last encounter with the android, 1 year ago, and now he trained somemore. Now watch next
You mean when Future Trunks jumped in an nearly got him and Gohan killed so he had to escape into the night and get Trunks out of there?
Notice the lack of an arm?

It's different because going back into the past period creates a different world.

Unless you don't change the settings, anyway.

His arrival did effect the time line though, with out trunks Goku would have died and they wouldn't have known about the andriods.

>Then there is your answer
To a question I wasn't asking. Time-Traveling Cell does not appear in Trunk's timeline. This is strong evidence for Trunk's timeline being the original.

It creates a different world due to the interference of the time traveler in the world's events. In other words, the 2 parallel universes that result are one where the time traveller arrived, and one where he didn't.

Future, Burrowed Cell was already there when Future Trunks arrived, so he necessarily exist in BOTH parallel universes.

>You mean when Future Trunks jumped in an nearly got him and Gohan killed so he had to escape into the night and get Trunks out of there?
That never happened, that was anime only filler. Trunks never faced the androids at that stage. see where he talks about his lost battle over his arm

>His arrival did effect the time line though
Yes, but not cell, who was hidden far away. all three timelines have cell burrowed and hidden far away.

>This is strong evidence for Trunk's timeline being the original.

It's actually not because there's no time traveling Cell in the Unseen Trunks timeline either. At least not he goes back in time and makes the TV timeline.

Did you intentionally leave out the other pages or what?

>It's actually not because there's no time traveling Cell in the Unseen Trunks timeline either.
We don't know enough about the UT's timeline to make that claim. We know a lot about F.T's timeline though. There's also the idea that the androids were so different and stronger because of Future Cell's influence, which was not seen in F.Trunk's timeline.

If Cell HAS to have appeared in one of the two timelines, the likelier candidate would be the one we know less about.

Okay, so I'm way behind in Super, but I've sorta been keeping up with what's happening. I need timeline explanations now.
>Timeline #1 - Main timeline, Kuririn and Future Trunks destroy Gero's secret lab with the gestating Cell
>Timeline #2 - Future Trunks' timeline, Cell is killed by Trunks after he returns from timeline #1
>Timeline #3 - The timeline of the Cell we're most familiar with, kills Trunks and travels to timeline #1
I get that. But
>Timeline #2 has Goku Black, who is Zamasu in Goku's body after a wish
>Beerus kills Zamasu in timeline #1, which supposedly kills Zamasu throughout all future timelines
Is Goku Black (the body anyway) from some fourth timeline where Goku was still alive? How did Beerus destroying Zamasu in timeline #1 change anything? How are there two Zamasus in timeline #2? Did timeline #4 Zamasu fight Goku, wish to switch bodies with him, kill his original body, and get wished to timeline #2 by himself of that timeline? Has Beerus killing timeline #1 Zamasu's body also killed timeline #2 Zamasu's body, leaving only Goku Black?

And can someone explain timeline #2 Mai to me? How can she have aged from her child appearance in timeline #1 if she never became a child in timeline #2 due to the Dragon Balls no longer existing?

>We don't know enough about the UT's timeline to make that claim.

We know that the Cell there had completed his growth from the lab, was looking for the Androids, couldn't find them, killed Trunks, took his time machine, and arrived in the main series timeline because the settings changed. That's plenty.

Don't bother asking that, we don't know the answers yet. It's entirely possible the whole thing is a huge cockup of the writing department.

>We know that the Cell there had completed his growth from the lab, was looking for the Androids, couldn't find them
So? We know nothing of the unseen trunks childhood and his past. We know a lot about Future Trunk's past, in which there was no cell.

Black can't be Goku, Mai's laser gun did nothing to him.

>And can someone explain timeline #2 Mai to me? How can she have aged from her child appearance in timeline #1 if she never became a child in timeline #2 due to the Dragon Balls no longer existing?
they made the wish right before piccolo died, and became babies.

Well obviously there was no fucking Cell in Unseen Trunks childhood. One, where he would have come from, and two, if he was there due to travel time, he would've been fully grown and nobody would have been able to stop him.

>Time-Traveling Cell does not appear in Trunk's timeline. This is strong evidence for Trunk's timeline being the original.

Oh, I see, you are talking about prime time line.
Well he did, he effected the time line the same as trunks did by just adding to it. We just saw the timeline change in real time with cell regrowing in his original form.
Also are you sure that future trunks from both time lines had a burrowed cell? Because by the time of future trunks when back in time future cell was already grown in gero's lab. Not only that you are making assumptions that the burrowed cell exists in all 3 time lines because time is still a constant line than a branching one. When cell went back in time, he created an entirely new timeline, while his old time line exists unchanged. From what I get from your explination that though new time lines are made you are stating that those changes of the past which is a new timeline affects the future of the old timelines.

ok here is the page before that
this isn't the anime, things go relatively quick

>Well obviously there was no fucking Cell in Unseen Trunks childhood.
No we don't.
>One, where he would have come from
The future, though that's a plot hole I admit, since it would mean he affected his own timeline. But on the other hand, we know unseen Cell's timeline was affected by Future Trunk's trips, and this would be wholly impossible if it was the original timeline.
>if he was there due to travel time, he would've been fully grown and nobody would have been able to stop him
My unsubstantiated idea is that in this timeline, affected by Cell's trip, we have the powered-up androids of the main timeline (assuming future trunks was right), as well as possibly Android 16. The powered up androids would actually have a decent chance of killing him before he could absorb them.

>Also are you sure that future trunks from both time lines had a burrowed cell? Because by the time of future trunks when back in time future cell was already grown in gero's lab
There's 2 cells per timeline for every timeline created after cell's first trip. There's the cell that traveled to the past, and the cell that was being grown in Gero's lab that would be born in the far future.

>because time is still a constant line than a branching one.
No, the time is branching, the thing is the first branch is created by Time Traveling Cell's arrival, so every subsequent branch has that event in its history. See: for further explanation.

When will Goku stop jobbing to Vegeta?

The Androids of the unalterated future were WEAKER than the Androids we got. Also that's just stupid headcanon, this would all mean that there's a 5th and 6th timeline out thee.

Also even if there was some sort of 5th or 6th timeline, that still wouldn't mean F. Trunks came first.
We know what happened to the F. Trunks Cell. If he came first, he would've been the first to go back in time.

More than half this thread is like 2~4 guys arguing about power levels and timeline shit.

I don't know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku.

NO KISS

>The Androids of the unalterated future were WEAKER than the Androids we got.
The androids of TRUNK'S timeline were.

Trunks theorizes that cell's arrival is what made the androids of the show's timeline much stronger and greater in number. IF he is correct, that would be further indication that there's no burrowed cell in his timeline, making it the original, and if we further assume that as a result, the unseen timeline had stronger androids, it's an explanation for why there's no perfect cell. The androids killed him.

And it's all because Toriyama accidentally said he could've gotten data from Trunks when that's completely impossible unless there's even MORE timelines out there.

The reason there's no burrowed Cell in F. Trunks timeline is because no Cell had the means (or reason) to travel there. That's all. Why is that so hard to understand?

>sees this thread
I hate Dragon Ball threads
>sees kanzenshuu
I hate Dragon Ball

And because he forgot that there would have to be a time-traveling cell in trunk's timeline, if his timeline isn't the original.

I mean, it's clear he didn't give it that much thought, we're just trying to make sense of his mess because it's fun.

>The reason there's no burrowed Cell in F. Trunks timeline is because no Cell had the means (or reason) to travel there
user, timelines aren't isolated. They have a common history from the point of the time-split backwards. If Cell's arrival is the first time-travel event, that same cell would be in the past of EVERY timeline except the original one that was never affected by his arrival.

He's still got another win in him. 3-0, when?

>If Cell's arrival is the first time-travel event

Except its not. Have you not listened to a word Ive said?

I just want to point out that Chichi's lips are still virgin

this is a great news

>Except its not.
What the shit? Of course it is, it has to be since trunk's first arrival is a YEAR after Cell's.

>There's 2 cells per timeline for every timeline created after cell's first trip. There's the cell that traveled to the past, and the cell that was being grown in Gero's lab that would be born in the far future.
Not trying to insult you, but Not in the future where trunks first goes back in time. If that were the case then a perfect cell would have already captured the andriods, this is evident when trunks defeats the andriods and where he kills cell of his own time, that was the cell that grew in the lab. The cell you are saying should also exist in Trunk's future timeline, but he is not present, because in the future timeline that wasn't altered cell was already grown so trunks couldn't have destroyed the lab in his own time line. This is the cell that would have gone back in time like the other time line but this time trunks kills him. Like you said there should be 2 cells in future trunks time line. If that were true trunks would have to deal with 2 cells than one in his own time line.

That history of cell going back in time, the canon one was now cemented as its own growing tI'm elite all they could do was add to the single time line, so I what I am saying is there is only one time line that had 2 cells. The other 2 timelines where one had trunks killed after defeating the andriods and one where he lives killing cell, there are two futures that effect on single time line and created a new timeline.

No dumbass, the first time-travel event was Unseen Trunks travelling to the past to give Unseen Goku. What what happened in that timeline we never really find out for sure, but the point is that was the first. THEN Cell killed Trunks, took his time machine, and went back further in time than Trunks did.

Man I'm getting tired, I can't type correctly.

But I still have the timelines and their origins down.

Nah, Goku is a bitch. Hand holding and Jesus Juice couldn't change this fact.

>Not trying to insult you, but Not in the future where trunks first goes back in time.
Your wording is pretty off but I'm saying the same thing, user. There isn't a time-traveling cell in F.Trunk's timeline, therefore there has to be one in every other timeline. Either that, or there IS a TTCell in Trunk's timeline, but we never saw him for reasons unknown.

There is only 1 timeline where cell didn't arrive in the past and burrowed, the original. Whether F.trunk's timeline is the original or not is what we're debating.

>user, timelines aren't isolated. They have a common history from the point of the time-split backwards. If Cell's arrival is the first time-travel event, that same cell would be in the past of EVERY timeline except the original one that was never affected by his arrival.
That's not correct because that would mean the future has been altered. Which in never was, the future stayed the same do to the fact you rewrite what has already been written. Only create a copy where there is a better future. If history is effected by every time travel it would cause a paradox.

>There isn't a time-traveling cell in F.Trunk's timeline, therefore there has to be one in every other timeline.

Everyone is able to keep up with what happened to all the other Cells but you.

>No dumbass, the first time-travel event was Unseen Trunks travelling to the past to give Unseen Goku.
But that's wrong, user. Cell's arrival happens a YEAR before Trunks met Goku. This is true for every universe where cell arrived, be it the unseen universe, the main timeline, or the other completely unknown one.

you should make a blog so nobody here has to be forced to read that shit

>That's not correct because that would mean the future has been altered.
The future IS altered, though, in ONE TIMELINE.
The other timeline is unaffected. Only ONE timeline is completely unaffected by Time Travel in it's past, and this one shares a history with every other timeline UP to the point when Cell first arrives in the time machine.

Which only matters from the perspective of the main timelines inhabitants. From the perspective of all the universes, Unseen Trunks time travel came first. From the perspective of the main timelines characters, Cell arrived first, but he's not the first character to time travel.

>Goku
>better
He even dreams it, he best wake-up and apologize unless he wants to get knocked out again.

But what if she sucked Goku's dick?

And you should kill yourself.

I got bored of reading this and went to go fap to the idea of Bulma massaging Mai at an onsen, seguing the massage into something lewd as Bulma's hands wander from Mai's breasts to down there, which at first caused Mai to jump but Bulma immediately clung to her and kept at it with reassurances of it being okay.

KISSLESS

You're the only one who doesn't get that a time traveling cell exists in the multiple timelines created by Trunks.

Ok yeah, then I agree, there is a cell in every timeline. However to which is the prime time line is hard because there are 2 future trunks timelines where one cell kills trunks while the other has trunks kill cell. Both have time lines similar to each other only one is of cells death and the other trunks.

I doubt at this point

Trunks only made one timeline. Cell made two. That accounts for all four timelines. THERE'S ONLY FOUR TIMELINES.

>Which only matters from the perspective of the main timelines inhabitants. From the perspective of all the universes, Unseen Trunks time travel came first.
Not at all. Cell's arrival causes the EARLIEST alternate timeline. Every other timeline including the main one is an offshoot of this one. What we don't know is if the unseen timeline, or F.Trunk's timeline is the original.

Unseen is the original. F. Trunks being the original is impossible.

Apparently, Bulma and Vegeta make out a lot

True enough.

Zamasu is a large gaping plothole no matter what. Goku is only alive in the present, and there's no way for present Zamasu to ever enact any of his plans and recruit other timelines since present Gowasu never died. Future Zamasu just basically materialized out of nowhere for the plot and killed Future Goku who he has never met.

Future Zamasu killing Future Present Goku wouldn't make sense either. Present Goku is connected enough that if he ever died, everyone would know. All he has to do is teleport to North Kaio, who will tell Supreme Kai, who would tell Beerus/Whis, who could then tell Zeno. Even if Black managed to run away to a different timeline, it's not hard for others to follow him. Literally every universe has a time ring that resonates to a time warp that has been used. I would think that the Grand Priest would have some sort of mastery over time like Whis, but even greater since Whis can't even reach his feet.

Right, and there's contradictory evidence because Toriyama didn't care that much.

Trunks made 2, cell made one. Jesus, user. Pay attention. Cell only traveled ONCE into the past, so he created the first branch. Trunks created the second and third branch. But since the time-traveling cell was there first, he's a part of every branch except the main one.

Cells single travel to the past made two timelines at once. I already explained this.

Is that how Goku will finally best Vegeta, then? Give him a power-up?

Both are impossible based on all the evidence together. I think it's likelier that the unseen one is't the original, butt here's evidence against that as well.

Which future was altered then, by the effect of time travel to the past alone?
The main canon one? Because that time line where we are focused in, or the main story is the altered future and it is its own time line. However the other 2 time lines has not changed since the events continued to be the same aside trunks dying.

No, Cell's single travel made ONE new branch. Trunks traveled twice, making 2 more branches out of Cell's new branch. See:

They're only both impossible if you buy into that shit about Gero being able to collect Trunks data. As long as you ignore that, at least one flow of time makes pretty damn good sense.

>Which future was altered then, by the effect of time travel to the past alone?
The future of the alternate timeline created by the time travel.

The main "canon" universe has had it's future altered 3 times by the end of Z, and more times now in DBS.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THIS! SUPER HAS SHIT WRITING! WE KNOW THIS WE ALL KNOW THIS. IT'S STILL A FUN RIDE. JUST TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN AND ENJOY THE SHOW.

I forgot about trunks data

No, Cell's single travel made the main series timeline AND F. Trunks timeline at once. See:

>As long as you ignore that, at least one flow of time makes pretty damn good sense.
You also have to ignore the fact that there isn't a cell in F.Trunk's past, that's a pretty big plot hole.

In Heaven there is a Zamas-Goku

cool

Wtf cure is lit

No, it would be a bigger plot hole if there was. Where would it have come from?

looking forward to the Gowasu episode review on GodTube

Yes, that is like the time traveler dumping ground, but it seems there is 2 of the canon past where trunks and co stop the andriods in the past and trunks goes to the future and kills his andriods only to be killed by cell, and there is the main canon time line where the cell from the previous said time line invaded and added to the main canon timeline.

STOCKS ARE RISING

she did it for gohan

>No, Cell's single travel made the main series timeline AND F. Trunks timeline at once.
That makes zero sense. One time-event creates ONE new timeline.

No, it had to have made two, because there has to be another timeline in order for a Trunks to come from the future. So Cells trip indirectly made one in reverse.

>already popped out two kids

The bit you want to be virgin is busted.

That cell is the cell the grew up and killed trunks and went to the past, or are you talking about a burrowed cell? Because having a burrowed cell would mean 2 cells in the future timeline.

How is any other version of Zamasu still alive in the first place? Unless what Beerus said was a lie.

>No, it had to have made two
This cannot happen, user. Cell's trip created one NEW branch in addition to the old one. So two total, but only one created by him.
Trunks first trip created ONE new branch, an offshoot of Cell's new branch. And Trunk's second trip created ONE new branch, an offshoot of the one created by Trunks first trip.

4 lines total.

Meant for

It just means that Beerus' power is not multiversal, just universal.

It CAN happen because that's literally what happened.

Even with your shit future Trunks only made one branch each anyway, neither of them made two.

>That cell is the cell the grew up and killed trunks and went to the past, or are you talking about a burrowed cell
That's the same cell. Cell was born in the lab, grew up, killed trunks went to the past and burrowed there.

>It CAN happen because that's literally what happened.
>Even with your shit future Trunks only made one branch each anyway, neither of them made two.

So which is it stupid, one branch or two?
Unless you're actually counting the original timeline as a branch cell created, which is also fucking stupid but there's some retard logic at least.

Prrobably something related to his death in f trunks timeline.

thread needs more cum splattered Chi Chi

Look bitch, when Trunks came to the main series timeline Cell was already sleeping. Do you understand what this means? It means that even though the time machine is supposed to make a new universe when you change the settings, they both ended up in the same timeline anyway. Do you not grasp how this could be possible? There's only one explanation: When Cell went back into the past, thanks to Unseen Trunks, time was forever altered so that a Trunks would have to come from the future. Do you get that much at least?

Time travel seems to just create a copy of a past so it can have a different future.

see
Pretty much this.
It copied the past that Trunk made..
In the past that Trunks made, a boy named Trunks came from the future.
In order for that to happen again, when Cell went back in time, a new future timeline was made to self-fulfill that.

Wait, Goku has never kissed Chi-Chi or he has never been kissed?

They did just user being dumb

>It means that even though the time machine is supposed to make a new universe when you change the settings
Stop it with this Super's Bullshit, stick to Z. This is messy enough as it is.

Trunks went to cell's timeline, because he set a date AFTER the one Cell had already traveled to and changed. So he ended up in his offshoot branch instead of the "main timeline", because cell already changed the future for anyone who travels to a date after he arrives.

LIPS

CLEAN

STILL BRAND NEW

Super is just as canon. And what the fuck does "
Trunks went to cell's timeline?" Cell doesn't own his own timeline, and Trunks never went to it. Cell has been in every timeline to some extent.

someone make a new thread

If that was the case, cell couldn't possibly be in the same timeline as future trunks, though. They have to share a history, otherwise they could never be in the same parallel universe.

...

>If that was the case, cell couldn't possibly be in the same timeline as future trunks, though.

It copied the exact same story as Unseen Trunks future too. It had to have, or Future Trunks story would have been different and the time machine wouldn't have made a copy of what it considered the past.

>Trunks went to cell's timeline
No, trunks went to the timeline CELL HAD ALREADY CHANGED. That's why the time-traveling cell was in the past HE WENT TO.

If that were true then how could that cell frim unseen future travel back in time with out trunks already going back in time. Remember when he killed trunks? Trunks was going back in time tell everyone he killed the andriods. Seem there was already time travel shin angina before unseen future cell wentry back in time.

Time machines don't make copies of the past. They create a branch in the timeline with a new FUTURE. Same past.

>No, trunks went to the timeline CELL HAD ALREADY CHANGED.

Which should be impossible unless Cell made Future Trunks timeline in reverse.

Look, Cell went back in time, and in that timeline, Trunks came from the future. That's undetectable fact. Since time travel had already happened, it's not hard to grasp that maybe Future Trunks time travel wasn't the first to happen after all.

>If that were true then how could that cell frim unseen future travel back in time with out trunks already going back in time.
Trunks already had gone back in time, but trunks had gone to a time AFTER the time Cell traveled to. So cell's arrival came BEFORE trunk's arrival, despite the fact that cell left AFTER trunks did.

>Same past.

And yet in the past Cell went to, Future Trunks came anyway.
If it was the same past, then nobody should have come from the future. It should have been exactly the same as Future Trunks timeline. Except with Cell.
This means it copied the past that Trunks made first.

>Which should be impossible
Not at all, by changing the past Cell created a new future, where everyone else will arrive to if they time travel. His own timeline is an offshoot relative to this one.

>Not at all,

Well duh, I just explained it.

>And yet in the past Cell went to, Future Trunks came anyway.
Future trunks came to the TIMELINE created by Cell's travel to the past. He arrived after the future had already been changed by cell, user.

You explained it wrong.

Should've had put a title so people can find it in the catalog.

>Future trunks came to the TIMELINE created by Cell's travel to the past.

Yes. He did. Because that is what the Future Trunks was destined to do, since when Cell traveled a year earlier to the past, it was a copy of a past where a young boy named Trunks would arrive from the future with a warning.

And that's exactly whath appened.

I think that the real discuss is that

Chichi's lips are still immaculate

everything else is not important

But that would mean that unseen f trunks that went back time should have met that cell, because the unseen future trunks was strong enough to kill the andriods, that would mean that unseen trunks created another timeline where the andriods were destroyed in the past whic would be called the unseen past. Seems like the copy and paste of time lines are getting fucked up.

We don't know if Unseen F Trunks was strong enough to kill the Androids. He could have used a remote he got from the past. Probably he did the same thing F. Trunks did. He went back, gave warning, nothing happened, he went back again, they went to Geros lab, found blueprints, and then he went back to his time and deactivated. No Cell to fuck things up, he needed time to develop

When Trunks went back to the past to give a warning, that's probably what the new past was as far as the time machine was concerned. That's probably why, when Cell went back a year earlier than Trunks arrival, the same thing happened, rather than it just being a copy of Cells/Trunks world where nobody came from the future and everyone died.

Still my point is there is another timeline unaccounted for, thay was created by a trunks where perfect cell came from.

Your causality is beyond fucked, holy shit.

No, user. trunks arrived to the timeline cell affected because Cell CHANGED THE FUTURE. So anyone traveling to the past will arrive to that future's past, and any subsequent changes made will become the new future.

i need more

That's bullshit and makes no sense at all. Any differences in the time machine is supposed to create a new world. How, then, could Future Trunks have ended up in the same world?

>But that would mean that unseen f trunks that went back time should have met that cell
No. Unseen trunks went to a past where cell hadn't emerged and the androids hadn't arrived. He was killed before he could travel a second time.

...Perfect Cell came from the first, original timeline.

My thought is that trunks made his copy and paste past, went to warn every one and deactivated the andriods, from the same timeline trunks deactivated the andriods he is killed by cell who created another time line by going further back in time. That time line continued to be added by the future trunks that was successful killing the andriods and cell in his own time line.

>Unseen trunks went to a past where cell hadn't emerged and the androids hadn't arrived. He was killed before he could travel a second time.

It coulda actually been before the third time. It really wouldn't make sense for Trunks to be able to do it after one warning.
And remember, they were going to go with the remote control plan, but Cell's presence fucked that up. Probably Cells mere lack of presence altered the timeline so that Trunks just looked for the blueprints rather than train, the same way Cells mere presence somehow made the Androids stronger.

>Any differences in the time machine is supposed to create a new world.
Any TRIPS of the time machine create new worlds. Because they change the fucking past by introducing an element from the future. Trunks ended up in the same world as Cell because Cell changed the future, so he existed in it by the time Trunks arrived.

You can think of it like this. The "main timeline" is the newest one that is created with changes to the past. The only way to avoid those events is to travel before those changes are made, because then every time event after would have already been in the timeline YOU created.

Thats not my point, my point was trunks already made a new time line, cell copy and pasted a new time line again by going further back intime. There is another time line where in the past they deactivate the andriods and trunks does the same in the unseen future.

>Any TRIPS of the time machine create new worlds

Then right away your theory is impossible and Future Trunks and the Cell that would become Perfect Cell should've ended up in different worlds.

See, my theory actually makes sense.

>It coulda actually been before the third time
It's unlikely, and difficult to say for sure because we don't actually know how the androids in the unseen future were killed. The remote is a possibility.

>Then right away your theory is impossible and Future Trunks and the Cell that would become Perfect Cell should've ended up in different worlds.
The opposite. By affecting the past, they create a new "main timeline". Everyone traveling to the past will arrive there, because it's the new future.

>It's unlikely

It's more likely than Trunks going to the past, giving a warning, and then defeating the Androids all on his own.

That's bullshit, because Cells and Trunks trip BOTH affected the past so according to your theory they both should have ended up in new futures.

I don't know what the fuck are discussing about but it's pretty clear that this arc has no sense

The simple fact that Trunks can travel back in time but not right after the Cell Games but in the Future of the Original Timeline says a lot about the consistency of this arc

Just enjoy the ride

But this is part of the ride thats fun to talk about

What's that Nigger 0 plan Zamasu talks about?

That's a bit problematic and racist.

And anyway even if I bought your theory it would still mean that Unseen Trunks timeline came first ANYWAY so whatever.

Honestly, both are about equally unlikely because on trunk's second trip he became powerful enough to kill Cell.

You're seriously not paying attention. Trips to the past change the timeline's FUTURE. Trunks ended up in the future CELL created by going back, which is why both met.

>Trips to the past change the timeline's FUTURE. Trunks ended up in the future CELL created by going back, which is why both met.

Ok, that still means future Cell came first so my main point is still right.

>came first ANYWAY
Came first relative to the unseen cell. Whether it's the original timeline or the second branch, we don't know. But cell made the first change to the timeline, so every trip trunks made was into this altered timeline.

>both are about equally unlikely because on trunk's second trip he became powerful enough to kill Cell.

I just explained that in the different timeline the lack of Cell probably altered things so that Trunks just went with blueprints rather than train. Thats how Cell killed him.

>Ok, that still means future Cell came first
First relative to what? You're discussing time travel, doofus. Future cell traveled to the earliest changed point in history, from a time years after trunks traveled to the past.

So wait. Zamasu traveled to the timeline where the Cell Games never happened to steal that Goku's body, and then time traveled to Trunks' timeline to meet Future Zamasu, who wished for immortality, and now the two are going on a rampage?

>But cell made the first change to the timeline, so every trip trunks made was into this altered timeline.

That's not really all that different than what I've been saying. You're just saying that Trunks ended up in the same past as Cell because Cell changed the past first. Even though it's been established that's not how it works...

To Future Trunks and the main series timeline stupid.

I cant say i agree to cell being the first because unseen future trunks went back before cell did, that would mean that cell after killing trunks created a new timeline adjasent to unseen trunks timeline he created.

How did Trunks find the Blueprints anyway? In the main timeline, they only did because they returned to Gero's lab after meeting cell.

Their TIMELINE came first, not his actions dummy.

I though zamus couldl only go forward in time.

Maybe since they didn't know to train in the Room of Spirit and Time they went back to the lab for another look. Or something.

Its not like its explained no matter which side youre on.

Im not talking about that im talking about the point you made saying cell was the first to alter the timeline, im saying unseen trunks did then cell made an nother timeline that was further back.

Fucking Cell can't be first. The fuck kind of retarded shit is that? His timeline didn't even fucking exist. Future Trunks' timeline created Goku's, and that led to the Dr. Gero split which created Unseen and Cell. He just traveled back in time to Goku's timeline.

Goddamn, not hard people.

>Im not talking about that

Well I am. I meant his timeline.

>To Future Trunks and the main series timeline stupid.
I think you should look up what "Parallel" means. Chronologically, unseen trunks exists at the same "time" as future trunks.

>Even though it's been established that's not how it works
That is how it works though, because otherwise trunks could not have ended in the timeline where Cell time traveled.

F. Trunks can't be first because then where the fuck did Cell come from?
We followed Future Trunks whole story. There isn't any point where he could've gotten killed, it was the same Trunks we saw the whole time.

>because otherwise trunks could not have ended in the timeline where Cell time traveled.

Sure if you just completely fucking ignore everything I was just explaining to you where when Cell went back to the past, thanks to Unseen Trunks changing it, the same thing was going to happen when Cell went back. Since a Future Trunks cant come from fucking nowhere, the time machine indirectly made both.

Well he can apparently cross timelines now, seeing as how Goku only exists in two timelines, Z/Super's and the Unseen Timeline. They made it clear he didn't wish Goku back to life, just wished for his body. Even then there would have to be a completely separate Zamasu from Z/Super's and Future's in order to make such a wish anyways. Which means Black was the Goku from Unseen, who they somehow managed to overcome Buu and Beerus despite never having trained for Cell and reaching SSJ2, or having access to SSJ3 due to Goku never having died against Cell, or Fusion.

Unseen trunks was killed 3 years after the time Trunks returned to the past.

I think this means unseen trunks didn't go back to the past the second time, and found the blueprints during those three years after, destroying the androids. He intended to go back to help the past timeline when he was killed by cell. Which by my reckoning would put him in the "third" timeline, one where trunks traveled one, not twice, to the past. This still leaves some plot holes, but it makes the most sense to me.

Also how could you say Cell's timeline didn't even exist?

It's literally the same as Future Trunks timeline except Trunks doesnt get surprise killed by Cell because he learned about him.

Dr. Gero was already making cell before the time travel shinangins, the robot collecting data got a glips of a time line where trunks arrived from the future. Unseen time trunks is different from future trunks.

>Unseen time trunks is different from future trunks.

No shit.

>Sure if you just completely fucking ignore everything I was just explaining to you
You mean your insane headcanon about copying pasts? I'd rather ignore it, thanks.

Thread's about to die anyway, so see ya.

Unseen was a future where it was fucked.

I mean he does get surprise killed by Cell. Unseen Trunks I mean.
The reason Future Trunks doesnt get killed is because, thanks to Unseen Trunks actions coming first, this lets him learn about Cell.

Can we just agree that time travel was a mistake?

You were just done saying its the same trunks.

F. Trunks created Goku and Unseen upon his first visit. Upon his second visit, he created Cell's, due to Android Blueprints happening in a varied split. Cell then travels back in time to Goku's timeline.

I can agree mistakes were made in presenting the time travel.

Makes a ton more sense than your headcanon about Future Trunks arriving in the same past as Cell because altering the future creates new worlds so because that creates NEW worlds that should obviously mean that their future altering time trips would land them in the SAME world right? Makes perfect sense.
Fuck.

You must be confusing me with someone else.

>F. Trunks created Goku and Unseen upon his first visit.

Oh cool, two futures happened in ONE timeline. Neat.

Idiot.

It does make perfect sense, again see:

No i think unseen cell created goku's time line because of him going furthter back than trunks did oringinally.

Oh my god this fucking thread

Time travel is full of mericles

No, Unseen is the same as Z/Super's, there just isn't a Cell. Cell's Timeline is where things are fucked.
The issue isn't time travel, its the fact they introduced 4 damn timelines. They could have easily had it like this.

>Future Trunks travels back into the past and saves Goku.
>Cell Arrives from Goku's Future
>Trunks/Krillin never destroy Dr. Gero's lab and find Cell
>Cell is from Goku's Timeline and just traveled back to the past because Bulma made a time machine at some point which he sneaked in and stole

Far less convoluted.

The show's timeline was the result of every trip made there.

Yeah, I already refuted and you just said "Nah when Cell changed the future he changed the past so when Trunks went to the past he went to the same past." even though that's retarded and is horribly inconsistent with your own theory.

He changed the past that trunks traveled to, which is the future relative to the change he made.

Ti's not that hard, dum dum.

>, Unseen is the same as Z/Super's, there just isn't a Cell. Cell's Timeline is where things are fucked.
I meant it was fucked with trunks being dead in the unseen future.

>No, Unseen is the same as Z/Super's

No, Unseen is the timeline where Cell kills Trunks.
We've been talking about Unseen Trunks a lot. Unseen Trunks was just a fucking baby if we were going by what you think Unseen is.

Except Trunks arrival changed the future as well so he should have gone to a different world. According to you he just didn't that time for...some reason.

Trunks went back an entire year before Cell did.
It has to. If Cell created Goku's timeline, then we have to go under the impression that F. Trunks created Unseen when he first gave the Heart Virus to Goku. So where the fuck did Cell's Timeline even come from in the first place for him to be able to even travel back to? It can't have been from the original F. Trunks as its the same F. Trunks throughout the entire series, the one who kills Imperfect Cell.

F. Trunks has to create multiple timelines himself, there is no other way for Cell's timeline to exist.

>It has to.

No it doesn't have to because my explanation makes infinitely more sense than yours and is infinitely simpler.

>Except Trunks arrival changed the future as well
Indeed, thats' why he arrived there as well when he returned.

>thats' why he arrived there as well when he returned.

This sentence doesn't make any contextual sense. Where is there? Returned where?

No, its not.

You have 4 timelines.

>Z/Super
>Future Trunks
>Cell
>Unseen

They are two different timelines. Unseen is the exact same as Z/Super only Cell never appears in that timeline. Cell's is the exact same as Future Trunks' only Future Trunks dies. There is a reason Unseen is called Unseen, because you never once see it in the entire series, you however do briefly see Cell's during his flashback.

He arrived to the MAIN timeline, that was altered by Cell and Himself, when he traveled to the past. His future remained unchanged, the main timeline's future changed every time it was altered by the time travelers.

>No, its not.

Im the one who used it first bitch, Unseen Trunks is Cell timeline Trunk.

Where were you when best OTP became canon?

If Cell's came first then it means the Trunks we saw kill Frieza is not the same Trunks in the Android/Cell/Black saga, which is wrong.

So what were the reactions after the episode aired?

Other than the weak resolution of Black's mystery (as expected - Toriyama and Toyotaro don't do complicated/edgy plots), the episode was pretty fucking good. Really liked the part where they Future Trunks explains the alternate timelines