Ho-boy. I sure love talking about the Overlord ANIME and MANGA, what about you guys? What's your favorite EPISODE?
Overlord ANIME and MANGA thread
Probably 2nd episode or the one with the fight in the graveyard, which is 9 i think?
I, too, enjoy the Overlord anime.
please stop bullying us janitor-kun
Does anyone want to talk about FANFICTION as well?
I liked the episode where everything went according to Ainz-sama's plan, as expected.
this meme needs to die, this level of autism is too far
The bath episode was the best, as expected of Ainz-sama.
You do know that links get threads deleted right.
Overlord is copyright content.
So just in case PLS, whoever reading this don't be that kind of "FightdapowerAnon" and get threads nuked.
But what if I want to fight the power?
I highly doubt that linkz are what gets the threads deleted.
We link thousands of torrents (nya), hentai, doujins, and other shit all day long and it's not deleted.
This isn't a LN board though is the issue
Ainz vs mai waifu Shalltear.
The new rules stated LNs were allowed on Cred Forums.
Why do you have to emphasize anime and manga when plenty of other LN-based series threads go untouched? Is the mod still deleting threads?
>This isn't a LN board though is the issue
Re:zero the WN still gets a lot of thread in Cred Forums and they never get deleted.
along with other LNs that get posted in Cred Forums
just wanted to point that out
>This isn't a LN board though is the issue
It's allowed, though.
>Is the mod still deleting threads?
Yes. He's obviously just being biased against the series.
Hell, there's even a pointless thread for KyoAni's nanowrimo thing and another one for the Umineko VN.
Mod the fag has returned to once again delete Overlord threads even though LNs are allowed on Cred Forums. Typical humie.
The main reason we got shut down this time is because of people posting links to the illegal translation of the LN
IT'S A GOOD THING THAT WON'T HAPPEN IN THIS ANIME AND MANGA THREAD THOUGH
I don't think that's the case since the mod immediately deleted the following consecutive threads made thereafter. Check the archives, he deleted like 4 threads afterwords.
Were there even any links in the first thread to get deleted? I only remember people saying "use google" and shit
The mod obviously has a personal vendetta against Overlord.
For anyone who need the link:
>the ESL shitposter is indonesian
what a surprise
Hey, that user from a previous thread who wants a Valkyrie (male). It's thanks to people like you we get Skyrim, a game where you can become the Head of of a local Mage Guild by bashing everyone's heads with your axe.
>who wants a Valkyrie (male)
I don't want anything. I just said gender exclusive classes are poor game design and probably didn't exist in Ygg.
>where you can become the Head of of a local Mage Guild by bashing everyone's heads with your axe
Sounds fun. Why are you whining?
>I can't accept the existence of male Valkyries because muh mythology
It's a game, retard. People like you who don't understand basic game design shouldn't be complaining about how it's other people's fault that your autism doesn't let you enjoy games.
user who proposed Valkyrie (male) here. I was obviously joking, but if Loki can shapeshift into a female horse and give birth to Sleipnir, than an undead skeleton of sufficient magical power can probably shapeshift into a female human and take levels in Valkyrie.
At least Skyrim let you reanimate corpses instead of just summoning undead from thin air like Oblivion
So classes, levels, skill trees and special equipment are poor game design?
Are you retarded or just expert at missing the point?
On the contrary, you're the one who wants a female exclusive Valkyrie class. It's only natural that every class be available to both genders.
Why call it a Valkyrie then?
In that case, I want a Centaur that's half man and half another man.
Just do what Black Desert did. Same class different name. With a bit difference.
There we have it.
There's more to being a Valkyrie than just being female. Wings, lance, holy magic, etc.
>muh game design
At what point did you figure that YGGDRASIL devs gave two shits about what constituted good game design?
Don't put "LN" in the title, don't put "edition" in the title and don't make the OP a meta post bitching about mods.
This is common sense, people.
There are centaurs that aren't even half/half and by now the term has come to mean "a being with two arms and four legs"
In the same vein, the average minotaur is now a bull beastmen instead of just a dude with the head of bull and if you bring up labyrinths they call you racist.
You missed the link posted to DL all the translated LN from vol 1- 9.
Yes, but being female is a pretty fucking important aspect of a Valkyrie.
If you want a male class with wings, lance, holy magic, psychopomp properties, etc, then that's perfectly okay, even a good idea. There's no reason to call it "Valkyrie" though.
Call it something else and be done with it.
Valkyrie (male) as slutty traps pleases me.
>devs are retarded or don't give a shit, that means my head canon bullshit is true
Seriously, stop being a retard. Gender exclusive classes don't exist for obvious reasons.
SJWs ruining everything as usual
>inb4 SJWs claim user is sexist against the 3rd gender.
>Gender exclusive classes don't exist
So do you think there are Miko (male)?
Then what's the deal with differentiation between "human" and "not-human" races Yggdrasil had? According to your bright logic, the devs wouldn't divide races in two distinct groups, one of which can have race-related classes and the other can't.
Like, holy shit, why can't an Elf get a few levels in the Lava Troll class, it's so unfair!
Why are you being so autistic about this? I don't want anything; you're the one that wants a gender exclusive class; which is unheard of in an MMO or RPGs in general. Games don't care about mythology. They make shit up. Why are you so anal about them sticking to the mythology?
Not only do some MMOs have gender-exclusive classes, some of them even have gender-exclusive races, or races where the gender differences are so pronounced both in appearance and stats they might as well be two different races.
You know, all this discussion aside, I can think of several classes that the devs could make female exclusive and nobody would complain much, but I can't think of a single class that I can reasonably imagine being male exclusive without much complaint.
why is lupu the best pleiades
>strong divine caster
>excellent physical abilities
>delicious brown skin
> potential for ss as a sadistic oneesan chara
>great sense of humor (on seeing Agu remarks that enfirea was finally cucked by a goblin)
>great sense of timing
how can other pleiades even compete?
Lizard arc OVA when? I want to see steamy lizard sex animated.
Plenty of MMOs have gender-locked classes. These days it's mostly to save budget by only having to create one character model (and then cash in by making tons of skins for that model), but gender-locking has never been uncommon.
Go back to WoW with your demands that Tauren should be Paladins despite the wealth of worldbuilding saying they shouldn't.
Because sticking to the mythology gives flavor instead of having them be generic palette-swapped versions of each other. You want to be a Valkyrie, play a girl. Want to be an Incubus, be a guy.
Hang in there a moment, is that user that posting all these Valkyrie can be male happen to be one of those CZ GBAnons that wanted their dicks chopped off and turned into girls?
Yeah, Ragnarok Online with its Dancer/Bard class is a thing of myths. Or Wizardry games with Valkyrie classes.
The robot, just by existing
I'm not the original guy you're discussing with. I'm just saying having a male Valkyrie is dumb, no game would do that.
Also, I can think of some RPGs that have gender exclusive classes. For example, Diablo 2, all classes are gender exclusive (some in the lore even, there are no male Sorceresses).
>wants to be your bitch (literally)
>mind is experienced, body is a virgin
>drips like a faucet when ordered to take off her panties in public
>I don't want anything
>Except being a special snowflake that doesn't make sense
Miko (male) would probably be something like a Shinto priest.
Valkyrie (male) would probably be Einherjar.
Just because a class is gender-locked doesn't mean you can't have an analogous class of the opposite gender.
TERA added a few gender-locked classes too, as I recall.
>no game would do that.
>well okay, except for those incredibly popular games
Not to mention the most salient feature of Yggdrasil is to make the players go "this is such a dumb design choice, no game would do that"
>I'm autistic and want game devs to cater to how I think classes should work even though it's shitty game design
>Games don't care about mythology. They make shit up.
If they make shit up, they can make up the name as well.
>you're the one that wants a gender exclusive class; which is unheard of in an MMO or RPGs in general.
>or RPGs in general.
>well okay, except for those incredibly popular games
Please, do name a game that has a male Valkyrie class, please.
I'd be interested to play it, actually, see how they handle it.
I meant video game RPGs like Skyrim, not TTRPGs like DnD.
I love Lupus!
Slayer was race and gender-locked (all Slayers are Elins, all Elins are girls).
Blade and Soul has some gender-locked classes (the Yun are female only elves and they can only take certain classes).
I want to lick dat hip.
What a silly question
Counter-examples are mentioned in this very thread
From how this argument has been going, it doesn't look like you've played any RPG besides Skyrim.
What a badass.
>gender exclusive classes are poor game design and probably didn't exist in Ygg
And I say it isn't. To get levels in any profession you probably need to meet certain criteria: lvl, specific race and quests completion, for example.
I don't think that something like insect master can be considered a viable option for the undead. So you need to change your race first.
Do you want to be the valkyrie? Change your sex.
You don't want to change your character sex to do it? You don't want to be the valkyrie.
Do you autists really care if some Valkyries have dicks or not? This is really trivial yet so many of you are getting triggered. It's a game; they make their own rules. No need to spaz out because muh mythology.
Clem is pure. Not for fucking.
>Do you autists really care if some Valkyries have dicks or not?
Where do i suppose to discuss weaboo LN/WN?
/lit/ will bully, janny keeps deleting threads here.
So fucking annoying.
Frog abuse has to be stopped.
This is assuming changing your sex is possible, which I'm not sure it is. MMOs typically don't offer such a feature.
It's quite probably the same faggot who was complaining about Lovecraft references.
I'm of the opinion that A) there's no need for a game to stick too close to real myths, they can name shit whatever sounds good and change archetypes as they like and B) that still leaves room for gender/race/lvl/quest/event-exclusivity for flavor purposes.
Most MMOs don't allow race or class changing either, yet YGGDRASIL is confirmed to have both.
The only reason sex-change items are in question is that it's VR and because Satoru's world had strict anti-lewd laws.
Sure, when I hear the word "Emperor", I automatically assume it's a man. I am so autistic.
Ainz is bringing 5 VBs with him. How happy are you Cred Forums?
>clem has 2 shitty doujins
Why do I enjoy anime that either has no doujins or it has shitty doujins like cross ange
MMOs doesn't usually offer to change your race, which is we know possible in YGGDRASIL.
Are you talking about futa Valkyries? Because there's nothing wrong with that
>Tabula gave Albedo a bicorn because she was supposed to be a nympho
>Ainz changed her settings and literally cockblocked her from riding her mount
this fucking MANGA man, this fucking MANGA
Also do you think Unicorns and Bicorns had or have karma restrictions? It would make sense.
Then what about king of england(female)
>I can't accept that games don't care as much about mythology as I do.
So what happens when you hear "ninja"?
So seiba then?
Also Cocytus is... well, you'll probably never look at him the same way after today.
Where you there when they posted that the myth explained in modern terms? Did you screencap it?
Magicians in orange jumsuits
>but if Loki can shapeshift into a female horse
Loki is a literal god, your character is just some nobody in the game
The same thing that when I hear "kunoichi"?
If I can fap to that artstyle, then the doujin is fine. It's an okay doujin.
>which is unheard of in an MMO
Oh I'm laffin
I thought she only had one
>I can't think of a single class that I can reasonably imagine being male exclusive without much complaint.
That's because otaku would just die without their female knights and female samurai and shit.
An incubus is literally just a gender-swapped succubus though, it's the same race in every respect, especially mechanically.
>tfw Lupus will never murder you in a horribpe manner while laughing at your suffering
Yggdrasil had race-changing items. Who says there were no gender-changing items or places?
sadpanda has two unless some underground gook/chink translators are hiding it
I became head of the mage's guild in Oblivion by running around the place in heavy armour butchering everyone with a sword.
Made the boss fight with mannimarco or whatever he's called funny.
Point being it's not something new to Skyrim
Became head of the fighter's guild in Skyrim by spamming Dremora Lords.
Became head of everything in Skyrim by spamming Dremora Lords.
>your character is just some nobody in the game
Have you ever actually played a MMO? Because by the time you reach lvl 60 you're nutbagging Gods, looting their corpses and mocking their shitty "divine" gear.
Now that I try to think about one class like this nothing comes to mind
Nah, the incubus goes on top and the succubus goes below.
You beat the gods up for loot like pinatas.
teabagging, jesus, I need to sleep already
Alright people, let's wrap up this idiotic discussion. I'm the "male Valkyrie user".
If sex change is possible; gender-exclusive classes make sense.
If sex change is not possible; gender-exclusive classes that don't have an opposite sex counterpart don't make sense and are poor game design.
Can you guys just fuck off already.
>poor game design
>what are shitty devs
Your opinion are shit and they don't reflect reality one single bit.
Eunuch. As you can see it's not even a class locked to some fantasy race.
Even race change is possible, sex change would just be a side note under that.
"I'm a girl slime!"
"Fuck you, you don't even have sex organs, nobody cares."
That's only in shitty MMOs that descend from the Everquest formula and focus on "raids" and "end-game" and how everyone is the chosen one.
In actual good MMOs, you're just a dude in a world.
I like to think that Yggdrasil was one of the better ones, but seeing how it's an Asian MMO, that's not likely.
Why are you so butthurt?
You're fucking retarded.
>but I can't think of a single class that I can reasonably imagine being male
>gender-exclusive classes that don't have an opposite sex counterpart don't make sense and are poor game design.
Actually, no. It's poor game design if no similar male counterpart class available.
I'm convinced you don't actually play very many videogames.
In WOW you're basically just some regular faggot and you can still solo Arthas for loot.
Don't bully Bukubukuchagama-sama
It's so easy to spot someone that literally never played wow
>It's poor game design if no similar male counterpart class available
user, please re-read my statement, because that's exactly what I said.
If you bully her she'll just moan like a whore to AOG and then the premiere PK guild of YGG will be on your ass.
WoW follows the Everquest formula almost exactly. So much so, that you could call it WoW formula since everybody is immitating it these days.
It focuses on raids and endgame content and attempts to make you a "hero in the warcraft universe" instead of "some dude who lives in the warcraft universe"
It doesn't matter what you start out as, it matters where you are when your character is strong.
this is why the thread gets deleted
>I like to think that Yggdrasil was one of the better ones
I don't know how you can delude yourself like that when players are competing for literal worlds in item form and Nazarick makes the City of God look like a hovel.
Also they mention taking part in end-game events exactly like you mentioned.
I'm convinced you don't understand game design.
Please do not bully the Lupu
That's probably because you don't know anything about game design.
Name me one that doesn't follow that formula, then. All the MMOs I've played make you into a figure of legend on account of your high level.
Arthas is cool but is not a god.
Where this notion of having some options being locked behind gender, age or some other similar prerequisite being inferior game design compared to having everething unlocked for everyone comes from?
Not saying that the thing there everyone can be anyone is a bad thing, but why the other option is inferior?
>I don't know how you can delude yourself
I'm very good at deluding myself.
Logically, I know that Yggdrasil was probably a shitty asian grind-fest MMO.
But when I think about it, I prefer to delude myself into thinking that it's closer to my ideal MMO.
They're probably whining about lack of freedom of choice, because they HAVE to play their special snowflake character.
Excuse me. I probably need to get some sleep.
But it struck me that this statement is correct only when we dealing with symmetric play.
>to having everething unlocked for everyone comes from
Tree of savior is the proof that trying to be a special snowflake is going to fuck you over and people will just copy the most efficient class combo instead
>spent the past few hours arguing about male valkyries
>have work in 3 1/2 hours
Living the life.
But right now you literally wrestle fucking odyn TWICE not to mention that you kill 2 actual gods even before arthas
Nobody ever implied that there wouldn't be a male-exclusive class analogous to Valkyrie to fill out the tree.
I understand the words you're using but it doesn't make any sense to me. The charm of Yggdrasil in Overlord is precisely that it's a shitty asian grind-fest MMO cranked up to eleven and it got ported to fantasy world in all its overpowered degenerate glory, or do you think it's an accident Ainz is literally above the divine level and goes around one-shoting archangels and dragons?
>you can only have one avatar
>sex change is not possible
>gender-exclusive classes exist
>with no opposite sex counterparts i.e. Valkyries for girls but no similar class for boys
>you won't have any info available to you about these gender-exclusive classes when you pick your gender in-game
>50% of players will never have access to certain classes because of some trivial choice they made in the very beginning of the game
Is this good game design?
Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU), EVE Online, Planetside (the first one), etc.
Basically, most MMOs released or concieved before WoW didn't follow that formula.
WoW came out, perfected the Everquest formula and combined it with a masterful marketing campaign and got millions of subscribers who had never even heard of MMOs before then, and since then every new MMO has been trying to get lightning to strike twice by copying WoW.
It's fair to say that WoW ruined an entire genre. I would have preferred MMOs to stay niche with small populations, at least then they had variety.
The game has secret classes in it. I dont think fairness was one of their intended goals with the game.
This is a pure role-play. And you can change classes by killing yourself several times. It was easy to get lvl 100 anyway.
The last two doesn't make sense when datamining and wikis exists
Apart from maybe the thing about having only one avatar, i would not call it a bad game design. And do we really know what they tell you at the character creation? Remind you we are all speaking in headcanons.
In fairness Tree of Savior has a linear as fuck progression. If everybody has to go through the same areas, of course they're going to optimize with the same builds.
Ragnarok Online is a great case study of this--in the early days when there was no rhyme or reason to maps or levels you had all sorts of different mage builds (Firewall, Frost Nova+Lightning, Soul Strike, etc.), but once they started changing things around to create "intended" leveling zones the diversity of builds plummeted because of course you were going to use the build that works on the only map where Hunter Flies aren't eating your face.
Ygg was poorly designed, but wasn't that kind of the point? I mean, Ainz has a super-rare class that required very specific stuff to get and most players didn't even know about it because they minmaxed.
Also stuff like the Goblin Horn had effects that no one knew about, period.
>tfw I was one of the few people that enjoyed playing as a battle priest then the monk class came along and ruined it
Yes, risks and limitations are the hallmark of good game design.
Complete freedom ruins games.
As a personal anecdote, I played Planetside almost from it's release, and at the beginning, you could only have characters from one of the three factions, and when they introduced the ability to have more than one faction on one server, the game went downhill (it wasn't the only reason, but it certainly contributed). Giving players more freedom literally made the game worse.
You want the Yggdrasil experience (minus the VR)? Go play an average MUD, especially one of those p2w ones, I swear you will get everything you expect from Yggdrasil, both good and bad.
Ainz talks repeatedly about how information was money in YGGDRASIL and was closely guarded as such. He even mentions how user-edited sites like wikis were so full of misinformation as to be useless.
Datamining does kill the YGGDRASIL. I can only assume that in the grim, dark future of Satoru's world, the (((Eight Big Corporations))) have managed to shut that shit down.
And besides, not everyone can be a World Champion, you need to win a PvP tournament for that, that's why Touch Me class is so special.
And as we know from MANGA, Ulbert needed to kill a previous holder of World Disaster class(first find him) to get it.
I don't believe that unlocking incredibly rare classes(that not everyone will be able to wield) as a possible reward is a bad game design at all.
You are assuming my timezone.
I'm having lunch now.
But I really need to sleep more.
Basically, for Yggdrasil to be viable, you have to accept several things about MMOs that really wouldn't happen or work in the real world.
Which is fine, that's one of the premises of the novel.
Battlepriest was still serviceable for quite a long time.
The problem with Monk was that it completely fucked over every other class endgame. Need a tank? Steel Body. Need damage? Asura Strike. Need a siege breaker? Snap+Recall.
user, those classes are possible to unlock if you fulfill the requirements, which anyone can potentially do.
If there is no sex change and gender-exclusive classes exist, then that means for some people it is absolutely impossible to unlock those classes.
That is bad game design.
It can be good assymetrical design. Think Starcaft.
Zergs are obviously not skin-swapped Terrans, unlke, for example, Orcs and Humans in Warcraft 2.
Are we not assuming balance is an important part of good game design?
>not bad game design
Speaking from experience, what actually happens is this:
>Help I need to unlock WD class /guildchat
>No problem, we'll ask Bob, I can cast [FALSE SWIPE] to bring him down to 1 HP then you can finish him
>Fuck you guys, I'll need to grind for two hours to get back my xp, you better pay up 1000 gold or give me a autores item
>Well, the guild's paying for it anyway
>You choices mattering is bad game design
Get out Todd Howard
Balance that comes from everything begin symmetrical is terrible game design.
Having balance while keeping an assymetrical design (like Starcraft) is good game design.
Its a roleplaying game. Who gives a shit about ballance?
It's perfectly normal in MMOs for people to keep the locations of the best farming spots and such to themselves, and to PK anyone who starts poking around; it only gets out in the end because the worlds are relatively small and there's rarely any means to protect territory while offline. YGGDRASIL was simply so large that people couldn't stumble across secrets quickly enough to make them well-known.
You can play as either gender, or a genderless being like Bukubuku.
>Bad game design
This is from the same company that created the WCIs and generally enjoys making players suffer.
The 8th floor is so imba that People bitched to the devs about it.
It was also pretty tricky, like with Nazarick being invisible from aerial recon and in an unpopular location.
Whiny try hards you mean.
Then who was the first World Disaster is what I want to know.
It doesn't seem like there were millions of regular players either, it reminds me a lot of Haven & Hearth where everyone was rushing to check every spot of soil and every mine for quality and ores for months after a new map
MOBAs are a perfect example of extremely asymmetrical gameplay. Valve takes the stance of "just make heroes and the meta will sort itself".
A game like Ygg, with its extremely sandbox elements I honestly beieve would be popular IRL, the issue would basically be for a company to take the chance. As well as some realistic changes like, no user customized floors or items
>no user customized floors or items
I don't think so, i think it's only makes acquiring such specific classes much more special. I would be overjoyed if aquired such thing by chance.
Also i am of opinion that having all options balanced is of secondary importance to having all options equally fun and interesting. Granted, having a good balance is still a good thing.
Sneaky Developer? Event boss?
It would require too much money and people would bitch about balance everytime.
Aren't the world tournament was a big in-game event?
Arthas canonicaly died in WoTLK, retard. In a huge raid of rag tag alliance heroes.
>A game like Ygg, with its extremely sandbox elements I honestly beieve would be popular IRL
I don't believe so. Sandbox MMOs aren't very popular, because people like being told what to do and having a clear objective towards which to work.
There's a reason that SWG never broke 400,000 subscribers while WoW got to 12 million.
With that said, I'd take SWG over WoW any day of the week. I think WoW is and has always been terrible.
Still, sandbox MMOs are incredibly niche, and the more freedom you have, the less popular it is.
Unless unlocking it means the previous holder loses it entirely. Remember, one of the mechanics in YGG is changing your build by killing yourself repeatedly.
When you unknowingly make a choice that will lock you out of certain classes because the game doesn't share that information with you; that is bad game design.
I was talking about the World Disaster class.
About World Champion, people would bitch and moan until a championship was held every day or something.
realistic as is "realistically this would need to be balanced" the idea that you can wipe a 1500 lvl 100 players with a weak class like suicide bomber is stupid as fuck and noone would play
You just have to make sure people understand risk vs reward. Yeah you can get this strong class, but you only get 20% of the xp while you're lvling it. Or yeah WCI are strong, but they're always dropped on death, and if they're in the same spot for more than 72 hours a world message comes out pinpointing its location so you can't just hold on to them indefinitely.
Both Starcraft and Starcraft 2 seems to be pretty balanced.
And in some cases, you don't really need equal balance to get a fun experience.
Think something like Star Wars: Battlefront, specifically Walker Assault scenario.
Imperial stormtroopers attacking rebels with an overwhelming force and rebels desperately trying to delay them.
It can be fun for both parties if you implement objective-based gameplay and completely omit K/D ratio in any form.
I agree that they're not popular but not because something inherit in the genre. You need to manually build hundreds of systems in order for it to work properly.
Archeage had the most rapid growth in MMO player base since original WoW but of course, Trino fucked up the model and it became to P2W
Then I suppose you need to play every RPG with a game guide [I often do, since I get tired of having to start over] because that's present in almost of them.
Err, not necessarily classes, but game content in general.
And that's why we can't have a nice things, yeah.
It's been specifically stated that Ygg was very secretive; there were no guides or wikis.
It's also because the technology for a full-scale sandbox MMO doesn't exist. Look at the clusterfuck that was Archeage, all the resource nodes were farmed and all the habitable land claimed in the first few days, and that was with the game rapidly desanguinating due to Trion's mismanagement.
I know, but it's not like you're expected to play ANY RPG with a guide, you're supposed to explore, fuck up and start over so getting 100% completion with all extras unlocked actually feels like an achievement instead of a chore like going shopping with a list.
>absolutely impossible to unlock those classes
But it's not. It's merely hard to do: you need to start from level one.
Writers should've gotten with the times. You can't keep a secret from the internet.
Would you consider the incredibly hard to unlock classes being far stronger then the others a bad game design?
>full-scale sandbox MMO
Well that may be true, but, it's not just about the technology. It's not that we haven't had a true sandbox MMO, it's that we haven't had a well made sandbox MMO since WoW came out.
Look at UO, or SWG, or EVE. They were all sandbox MMOs working on limited technology, and they worked pretty well. They key was a combination of properly thought out mechanics and opening new servers.
I think Archeage failed (I didn't play it myself so I might be misinformed) mostly because of bad design choices and mismanagement.
You can when there are like two people who hold the information and those who defect get their site hacked and their characters PK'd back to lvl 1, the side story covers that.
Maybe it's not realistic but they certainly considered the problem.
Worst Overlord thread ever.
This is an Yggdrasil thread.
The only time you can keep a secret is when only one person knows it.
If two people know it, it won't be a secret for long.
You missed the hime/humiefag and thelovecraftfag.
It's absolutely impossible if you pick the wrong gender. Why needlessly punish people for making a seemingly inconsequential choice? It's not their fault the game kept them ignorant.
The longer you hold onto it the longer you hold onto your advantage. And you can always sell it to some sucker.
Would Overlord be improved if New Worlders could actually pose a threat? Something like skilled fighters/soldiers approach or surpass maid level while someone like Brain could be in the 60-70's. Fluder in the 90's and so on.
You know, not an absolute wank fest.
And it's all because some autistic anons couldn't accept Valkyries with dicks.
No. The wank fest is a major part of Overlord's appeal.
The main reason is that we're easily the most cancerous general on the board.
Ygg is basically Ultima Online combined with EVE then cranked up to 11^11 and the devs gave literally zero shits
It's sensible that Overlord specifies that there was a lot of shit missing from the game and that true full dive, the type where you can just hook yourself up to an IV or some shit or just launch yourself into the game proper, didn't exist, because otherwise it's literally life +.
I just want someone to be a threat to Nazarick even if it's someone within Nazarick, like a certain gorilla
No? What are you, a humiefag? Overlord is fun BECAUSE it's an absolute wank fest.
I thought we couldn't accept that not having a valkyrie(male) is somewhat a bad design.
Bad design, bad design. This word is becoming annoying
No, then it would be just like any other action anime under the sun.
Overlord is nice because the problems the protagonist faces are not of the physical kind, but the internal struggles of the character.
What Overlord needs is for Ainz and crew to remain the physically strongest beings in the world by far, but Ainz needs to face problems that he cannot (or does not want to) solve with Nazarick's combat might.
I will be extremely disappointed in the author and drop this LN if the only way he can find to up the stakes is to make an enemy powerfull enough to threaten Nazarick's combat forces in direct combat.
Considering we aren't allowed to talk about the newest volume of the FANFICTION, the threads going to off-topic and downhill quickly.
Nazarick itself poses a threath to Ainz, and lets not forget Ainz is 600 years behind if any player is in hiding from the start.
Of course not why the fuck would you try to unlock them then?
Because Ygg was not 'a game', Ygg was trying to imitate an entire world. If you don't have a penis in real life, then I'm sorry but you cannot stick your penis into a girl and spout semen into her womb and get her pregnant in real life.
Is it not sensible that if you're undead that you're going to be a better necromancer? Is it not sensible that certain classes should be available only to angels or undead or demons? If you had a class which involved nursing children wouldn't it make sense you need to be female? If you're an Incubus don't you think you need to be male (Incubi wouldn't have the same abilities as Succubi either)? Valkyries have riding the cocks of heroic warriors as part of their portfolio, don't you think they should be female?
No, it'd kill the entire appeal of the setting.
I can't tell what ainz is, a bread loaf?
>Because Ygg was not a game
Are you retarded?
"Shitty devs" is much better and less controversial, I think. Compare:
>Wtf why are there male Valkyries?
>Wtf why are there male Valkyries?
>Why can't I play a male Valkyrie?
>Why can't I play a male Valkyrie?
>forgetting the quotes
Mate the very fact that when the game shut down a significant fraction of the world hadn't even been explored makes it not like normal games.
But imagine the wankfest after beating THE BIG HERO who actually fucked shit up and posed a considerable threat.
All builds should not be viable, but all builds should be interesting. Emphasis on word interesting.
ThisHere is your (you)
Let's come up with the problems that Ainz can't easily solve with his might and magic.
It's going to happen eventually m8, some players who have been established and ruling some hedonistic dungeon or palace for centuries are going to get some beef with Nazarick and bring a tangible physical siege to the tomb.
So long as it doesn't devolve into typical Shounen powerlevel bullshit, it could be the highlight of the series. Ainz finally growing into his faux-persona, no longer a Japanese salary-man but a true, terrifying and calculating Overlord.
I do agree that Nazarick shenanigans are the best part of the series, comfy SOL volume when?
The considerable threat is what kills the appeal
The entire appeal is that the considerable threat facing Nazarick is Ainz himself, his paranoia, his lack of confidence.
Not some bullshit hero.
Right, that's why hard-to-unlock classes should either be broken or have weird gimmicks.
It's also why having limited classes and ''''bad game design'''' makes sense.
They do pose a threat, just not a physical one.
Ainz' project utopia can come crashing down if some humies start a civil war. He'll butcher them of course, but after that he will be forced to rule by fear, not by loyalty.
Ainz wants a good ending for everyone, NW can stop that happening, even if they are teh only ones to really suffer from that.
Well, it's quite ambitious word. It can mean both things, like "Awesome Devs" and "No irony, they are really shitty".
Ainz is Honey Toast.
ESL please go and no if you call devs 'shitty' it's not really likely to be ironic
>in b4 climb gets the ability to deal massive damage to any character that is higher leveled than him
I am trying ;_;
Ever heard of a meme, retard?
>this is your brain on SAO
If 'shitty devs' is assumed to be an ironic meme for Ygg players (that we have no evidence for, Ainz uses it completely unironically in his flashbacks and comments on how things used to be) then 'bad design' can also be an ironic meme for Ygg players.
I still believe Climb will be the hero to defeat Ainz.
>he dies to skelly spam
Yes, the ass in that picture is rather bad, but still acceptable.
>Ainz' project utopia can come crashing down if some humies start a civil war. He'll butcher them of course, but after that he will be forced to rule by fear, not by loyalty.
Project Utopia is equality and prosperity for ALL races under Nazarick's rule. In worst case it would live without humans.
In the Prologue its literally stated that "Shitty devs" is simultaneously a curse, insult and a sign of affection.
Don't give up
Climb seems to be red herring though
Well, if we look at it, even if Ainz wanted the world to respect each other and listen to him base on loyalty, the NPCs namely Demi probably MC, baptised, replaced, etc those in power or dangerous.
It's a sign of affection because the devs made the game and the fuckmassive world. Generally speaking when you shout 'shitty devs', though, it's because you've run into a 'troll' feature like the raid bosses that get stronger and stronger.
Its not just humies that might be the one to resist though. Beastmen refusing to stop eating humies, Humies take revenge, suddenly the two sides are at war.
And to be fair, if there was a race that made a delicacy of eating 6th month fetus I would be calling for genocide too.
If you have class A and class B and B is superior to A in every way, it's poor game design. Why will anybody consider playing A?
If we want to keep both, B must have some strong drawbacks.
From the top of my head: extremely rare and expensive consumables, limited number of players with this class and the ability to lose it(for example, tied to the specific clan hall or will disappear after time limit), some obscure weakness than can be exploited by the prepared player and so on.
So yes. But only if it's really incredibly hard to unlock.
>It's absolutely impossible if you pick the wrong gender.
No. You delete your current character and start again, now with the right gender.
It comes down to information distribution handling.
If your game has something like this
and you picked the wrong gender then you're bloody idiot and you deserve it.
If the whole game built around information distribution, then it's not ok, but it's part of the core game design.
>eating 6th month fetus
That's when it's the most juicy and crunchy.
Oh, and one other small, but pleasant thing - it doesn't scream while being boiled.
Overlord takes it and cranks it to 10. There isn't anything as of now that poses a threat. Martial power or otherwise. The only things that ever could (WC items) get nullified by Nazaricks own WC items.
>Ainz needs to face problems that he cannot (or does not want to) solve with Nazarick's combat might.
What the hell could that be? Combat wise even shit tier monsters surpass the best of the New World. If that isn't enough Ainz could always use his ring that grants fucking wishes. Ainz can also revive the dead etc etc. Overnight world domination is solely held back by Ainz and his massive autism. The "problems" are not problems.
Possible, but I don't think thats where Maruyama is going with this. Look at Ainzach and Just, he's investing a lot into human characters. Ainz himself is rather fond of a lot of them. I reckon Ainz will probably side with a faction like the Dragonic kingdom, which was just living in peace, over the aggressive, man eating horde of beastmen.
They worked because they didn't have WoW's 12 million players clamoring for space and resources. EVE is up there, but it's in space, and it's really easy to expand a space game because space is filled with mostly nothing.
Archeage failed because of Trion's mismanagement, absolutely. They took a solid game, made it incredibly P2W, and launched on a patch designed to fix oversaturation in the Korean server economy by making mats drop rarely or not at all. But that's not the issue at hand.
The day the game launched, everybody and their mother scrambled to throw down a basic house pattern and farm. The result was that by the time anybody playing casually or without prior knowledge caught up, there was no land left for sandbox stuff, unless you wanted to buy a plot at 2000% markup. A complete mess that was predicted by everyone during the beta.
>If you have class A and class B and B is superior to A in every way, it's poor game design. Why will anybody consider playing A?
Because people don't actually play this game for minmaxing, don't you remember that guild that had an entire guildbase of level 1 cats? People play the game to have fun, not to do le epin raiding and optimal build (or at least, not all of them do).
>no Clementine orange slush
>The day the game launched, everybody and their mother scrambled to throw down a basic house pattern and farm
This is the bad design I'm talking about. This kind of shit could be solved with an extensive PVP system.
God damn, I don't even drink but Albedo makes me thirsty.
>The "problems" are not problems.
There are certain problems that punching doesn't actually solve. For example, if you want everyone to get along.
>What the hell could that be?
I dunno, use your imagination. His Project Utopia is a good start, he can't just force people to think a certain way, so he has to plan and be subtle about it.
>They worked because they didn't have WoW's 12 million players clamoring for space and resources
Well remember this is in 21xx, they probably have yottabyte hard drives coming with work laptops or something.
Seriously stop whining. If you wanted to play a Valkyrie then you should have chosen a female species from the beginning. Don’t blame your own stupidity on bad game design. And if you cannot play Valkyrie, why does it matter? Just choose one of the other 700 classes. It is a game with a lot of freedom and therefore choices do matter. If you choose to play as a male than don’t bitch if you cannot play classes that are meant to be played by females.
This is an MMO thread now. Thank you, autistic anons who couldn't accept Valkyries with dicks.
But it's still can only be considered a bad game design. You need to change A.
Give A some interesting and unique abilities.
Now our dear roleplayer is relevant.
It's the other way around
Autistic anons who are experts on game design and apply their expertise to developers who are explicitly stated to give zero shits
No you don't. Interesting and unique abilities are a thing for every class but that doesn't mean every class is equally powerful and viable. A Gardener or Merchant class will never be as strong as an Archmage class but that's okay because you choose to become a Gardener and waste levels on that class.
If I wanted to fap to succubus(female) it better be damn well a succubus(female) not succubus(attack helicopter)
>Seriously stop whining
You're the one who's whining, user. I just pointed out it's bad game design, you apparently can't accept that.
>Don’t blame your own stupidity on bad game design
Except it's actually a case of bad game design, retard.
>It is a game with a lot of freedom
Except in this case it's limiting you. If it really did have so much freedom, it wouldn't arbitrarily limit your class options.
>If you choose to play as a male than don’t bitch if you cannot play classes that are meant to be played by females
Gender exclusive classes are idiotic, that's the whole point, user.
If it could be solved via PvP you'd just be turning all the habitable land into battlefields. Cue Fallout intro, war never changes, etc.
That's exactly my point. Sandbox MMOs can work, but we don't have the technology for it yet.
Once we have the server space to host these worlds, and the algorithms to populate them without impossible development costs, they'll stand a chance.
>gender exclusive classes shouldn't exists in MMO
>have to keep farming male dorfs, male orcs, male giants, male devils, male bandits etc.
Only 5% of players will be able to unlock the potent combination of succubus(attack helicopter), but it's a damn worth it for a chance of simultaneous attack of raining hell and flying charms.
Why do you care as long as you get off?
You could always just spell brainwash everyone (something I'm sure Nazarick could achieve) for project utopia. That aside, I don't think there's any other situation that couldn't easily be solved overnight.
>bad game design
But it isn't.
The game limits you on everything actually, you just have to find your own way around that. The Goal of All Life is Death is hidden in a class that's so well hidden you can count the number of people who found it, ever, and you can't even try to unlock it unless you're undead.
>Gender exclusive classes are idiotic
That's what you think
There's more than one user shitting on you.
>A Gardener or Merchant class will never be as strong as an Archmage class
And I talked about two similar classes. Effectively Archmage and shitty Archmage or Merchant and shitty Merchant. Merchant and Archmage are incomparable.
>If it could be solved via PvP you'd just be turning all the habitable land into battlefields
Exactly, it worked for UO.
If it wasn't for the fucking carebears, it'd work for other sandboxes too.
Been wondering. How come Ainz doesn't give Shalltear the task to take down the dragon too?
Because slaying tasks are gender exclusive.
>Merchant class will never be as strong as an Archmage class
If that was true then wizards today would have beaten the jews by now
Ainz is a coward, that's a fundamental part of his character.
How the hell are they incomparable? No two classes occupy the same niche, at most you have two classes that are direct upgrade of each other - Elder Lich is a direct upgrade of Skeletal Mage so there's no reason for Lich to be inferior.
Cursed Knight is not the same as Dark Priest is not the same as Crusader.
Because the author needs to prolong the LN. He's gotta eat ya know.
>Beastmen refusing to stop eating humies
That's why Ainz first show his power then subjugate. Any refusals would never came up.
>you can't even try to unlock it unless you're undead
Race changing is possible, so anyone can potentially get that class. There's no problem there.
If sex change is not possible; then it's bad game design to have gender-exclusive classes.
This is pretty simple, user.
Someone pls add
"Overlord thread turned MMO gender lock"
Into the list of Overlord threads Evolves list?
Why would sex change be impossible if a dread lich can become a fucking archangel?
Moreover 'gender locked classes' make perfect sense. A male cannot be a succubus by definition of a succubus.
The Dragon Lord of Frost.
>A male cannot be a succubus by definition of a succubus.
Well wizards sucks compared to merchants. Fucking merchant supremacy, we need to nerf them, they are just too OP.
A battlefield isn't exactly habitable. If your guild wants to claim territory, great, build a castle to defend the battlefield, but if every fucking one-room cottage is perpetually contested then you're going to lose sandbox builders real fast and be left with a dead game.
It's only honorable for two kings to face each other directly.
Does he even know the dragon exists
Also probably because he's scared of how strong the dragon is
Assuming the Dragon is level 90+ (in his mind!) and is highly intelligent as dragons often are, and taking into account dragons live for a long ass time (experience), it's not impossible at all that Shalltear gets defeated.
That would be very bad for her self-esteem, even if it's good for her development assuming she doesn't fall into a pit of depression.
>No two classes occupy the same niche
For example, in D&D Wizards and Sorcerers are competing for the same niche. One is flexible mid-battle, but cannot learn a lot of spells, other can potentially use any spell in the book, but only after meditating.
Both are frail, both can use exactly the same spells.
>I havent read X why does Y happen?
I want to play this now.
>but if every fucking one-room cottage is perpetually contested
That pretty much was the case in UO and it worked great for a while. You have to realize that if you give people enough space, it won't be perpetual battle, but battles will eventually happen.
Because he's afraid that there may be some players in hiding and he has no freakin' info regarding Dwarven Kingdom. Last time he gave some free reign to Shalltear he had to kill her himself.
If the spoilers of l.. MANGA are true, why so few NWrolders invest in power level detection abilities?
>A battlefield isn't exactly habitable. If your guild wants to claim territory, great, build a castle to defend the battlefield, but if every fucking one-room cottage is perpetually contested then you're going to lose sandbox builders real fast and be left with a dead game.
Ultima Online lived for quite a while and was famously sandboxy
I'm sure you know about the assassination of Lord British.
Those don't occupy the same niche, you just pointed out their problem
Wizards do literally anything incredibly well if you give them forewarning and time to prepare. Sorcerers are generally long-range nukers, they learn a couple of vital buff spells and go insane with their spell rodeo.
Well then get to it speedreader.
>Why would sex change be impossible if a dread lich can become a fucking archangel?
Race and Gender are two different things, user.
>A male cannot be a succubus by definition of a succubus.
This where the principle of "same class but different names" would apply. Male players would have incubus available to them, which would just be the male version of succubus. Same class but different names.
I'm talking about a scenario where you have a gender-exclusive like Valkyrie but there's no equivalent opposite gender class. Those kinds of gender-exclusive classes are bad game design.
>Race and Gender are two different things, user.
Both of them are immutable in most games.
Incubi are literally not the same thing as succubi.
>bad game design
To you. You might argue that to most players grown up on WoW and shit that the immense freedom and sandbox nature of the game is poor game design, that the WCI are poor game design, that the concept of these massive guild halls held together by a single weapon is poor game design, that a world so large where information is made to be so valuable that people will fight wars over it and where very little is worth more than a world map is poor game design. Other people beg to differ - play a different fucking game.
It's corporate honor. What kind of supervisor skips out on meetings and makes his subordinates attend instead? If it weren't for people like that Herohero-san might be there with him.
But we aren't talking about having enough space. We're talking about Archeage, where the flood of players filled all the available space in three days.
Nobody wants to be the Divination dork, despite it being the most useful.
>I'm talking about a scenario where you have a gender-exclusive like Valkyrie but there's no equivalent opposite gender class.
Discussion over, fuck off back to Cred Forums
>where the flood of players filled all the available space in three days.
Needed more servers and more space on each server. Their own fault. Also open PVP would mean that people wouldn't be as gung-ho about claiming land.
>What kind of supervisor skips out on meetings and makes his subordinates attend instead?
People who have more important matter to attend to
Ainz even notes that a CEO going to another company to negotiate personally made a huge fucking impact because it immediately signals to the other side that they are at the top of the priority list and that they have the full attention of the company.
Ainz fighting the Dragon Lord is among given spoilers. Not sure if it's actually confirmed yet, but it sounds like that's what happened.
>Incubi are literally not the same thing as succubi
They're both essentially sex demons, user. Don't be autistic.
>You might argue that
I'm saying this is bad game design. That's all, no need to straw man me.
Check vol 10 again, Ainz talking with Fluder.
>Needed more servers and more space on each server. Their own fault.
Technical restrictions. Again, the technology for a large-scale sandbox MMO is not yet economical.
>Also open PVP would mean that people wouldn't be as gung-ho about claiming land.
It was open PVP, you just couldn't destroy houses. Still, hiding nearby and ambushing people as they transported supplies from house to ship was a valid tactic.
I'm not fucking strawmanning you, I'm telling you that the game literally was not fucking designed for you if you're looking for balance and information availability and such and that the devs have never given a shit about your so-called good game design
Do you even know what a fucking strawman is?
You only have yourself and all the other autistic anons here to blame for getting triggered over Valkyrie cocks.
Dragon Lords aren't top tier level strong. They're mid-high tier level at best.
I didn't say they were, read the post in question
Ainz doesn't actually know how strong the dragon lord is.
Are you ready for unlock challenges, user?
Succubus(attack helicopter) is a strong combo, you will need to work hard.
To unlock it, you need to
>Race change into automathon(any gender)
>Take some tinker or mechanic job classes
>Max skill [demon forging]
>Find recept [helicopter blades]
>Find the rare metals and build it
>Equip it where you want it
>Gain a level with it
>You need to soak you helicopter blades in fountain of true love
>I don't know what the fuck is this, some guild migh know this
>Infiltrate the guild
>Fountain of true love in some secret dungeon.
>After that you need to answer the riddle about the nature of love and helicopters.
>You have only one chance
>Congrats, my fellow succubus(Attack Helicopter)
>But its bad game design if everyone doesnt have access to the same classes.
This game is not for you.
Oh, i forgot. That's make sense.
Game design pro at fault
user, you do realize everything we've been arguing about is just head canon, right? It's not confirmed whether Ygg Valkyrie is gender exclusive or not. I'd wager Ygg doesn't have gender exclusive classes; if you're so autistic that you can't handle male Valkyries, maybe Ygg isn't the game for you.
It's also not confirmed whether or not you can change gender. Maybe you're the autist for demanding Ygg (the one game that's been shown to more or less tell people going in with preconceived notions of good game design to stick it up your arse - see Longinus) conform to YOUR standards of game design.
If Evileye's comparison is something to take form then Dragon Lords are around Floor Guardian in terms of power.
Your reply is a bad design
We actually know how strong the Frost Dragon Lord is - he's like level 50 or 60 iirc
Someone post his character sheet
I didn't demand anything of Ygg; maybe you should learn to read.
No different than yours.
It'll all be worth it when you can treat people who don't succumb to your wink-and-blow-kiss combo to salvo of M270 HYDRA rockets!
>I didn't demand anything of Ygg; maybe you should learn to read.
I did learn to read; you're incessantly claiming that X is good or bad game design.
He's level 46.
I'm interested. Who has it?
>you do realize everything we've been arguing about is just head canon, right?
>Therefore my headcanon is more canon than your headcanon.
There are literal examples of class restrictions mentioned by Ainz, you cant be a Lich until you get a race change item.
you cant unlock certain classes unless you kill heteromorphs
you cant get world champion unless you win a tourney.
your Gender bullshit is irrelevant in a game described as having creatures without gender and having literal items to change from one fucking race to a completely different one.
So Frost Dragon Lord must be one of the weaker ones then? Because Evileye can't be level 30 or something....can she?
Do i undersand this whole dialog correctly and Ainz assumed that frost dragon lord is strong?
>Valkyrie has dick
Yes, I only spoke of what is good and bad game design. I didn't demand anything of Ygg. You need to learn to read.
Look at this and tell me if you think it's good game design.
Well, considering FDL is chilling out in the low level area that is the Kingdom, he probably IS one of the weaker DLs.
Hasn't been translated yet and I haven't read the spoilers yet.
>Yes, I only spoke of what is good and bad game design. I didn't demand anything of Ygg. You need to learn to read.
Nobody gives half a fuck about good and bad game design then if you're not applying it to Ygg. Are you applying it to Ygg or not? No? Fuck off to Cred Forums or /agdg/ where people care about your subjective views on game design.
You sure you're on the right board?
I think it's good game design. I don't care about players not having access to certain classes because of some 'trivial' choice that they had 'no way of knowing'. Information warfare is part of the game design.
Maybe he just woke up from 1000 years of hibernation.
>literally Hamsuke tier
Seriously, inb4 Hamsuke with Martial Arts and his armor is actually stronger than this guy
Inb4 Death Rider Hamsuke with his beam of doom in his mouth can solo this guy in seconds
>tfw no Overladies
Your reading comprehension is abysmal. If Ygg is like this then that is bad game design. But I'm not demanding that Ygg conform to my standards, you're the one that created that peculiar straw man.
>No job levels
NEET dragon lord
Balance is also a very important part of game design.
At least he doesn't have Wizard levels.
My char is a lava troll queen, shrine maiden, male human and that is good game design
You're one of those people that have levels in every single thing they can aren't you?
I don't think dragons have job levels. They are a pure racial class, every time they are mentioned in the novels its "high racial stats" "racial this" "racial that".
>Ainz assumed FDL is strong, being cautious
>Goes by himself, he is the most suited to deal with unknow, undead sweating
>FDL thinks he is some weakling
>Start the fight with grasp heart
>...Let's try something weaker
>It's Carne village all over again
That's my MANGA and ANIME headcanon
>your reading comprehension is abysmal
Because I see now that I was mistaken thinking that you were actually on-topic.
Since you're not actually talking about Yggdrasil and simply spouting off on your opinion that nobody cares about, you should head off to /agdg/.
If you ARE talking about Yggdrasil then I assume that you believe that, if Ygg were like that, then it'd be bad game design, and I'm telling you that that doesn't mean anything because the devs don't care about 'game design' standards, and the rest is still irrelevant. You're not playing the game. Nobody cares what you think about it.
Nice straw man.
Also true, but balance should not stand in the way interesting options
>don't think dragons have job levels
They probably have. Without job levels PDL would be around level 60.
Curse it! Curse my ESL!!! CURSE IT!!!
You either doesn't know anything about Ygg or you're intentionally ignoring the LN setting just to post your opinion.
I'm pretty sure he is at the right board and thread.
Where you been when Anons here trigger over ESL, General, lately over lovecraft.
I'm tired of explaining simple concepts to you. I have no interest in your straw mans. Please go back to redit, retard.
>whatever the hell is on Floor 8 exists
Balance is only an important part of game design if it's actually what you're going for. Ygg's vision was essentially 'HAHA FUCK THE RULES'. The only things the game designers cracked down on, balance wise, seems to be things that are actually unbeatable (the Elysium System).
ESL 'triggering' has been around since the board started.
>Its bad game design cause Extra Credits told me so.
>Without job levels PDL would be around level 60.
What does it say about job classes?
>can't even spell reddit correctly
>strawman is now two words
>he has no argument so he calls other people retards
>BUT THE DRAGONS ARE PROBABLY LVL 80!
What's got you so triggered, user?
Fucking what?! shallchair would whip that little lizard what is he a gecko?
We're assuming PDL is higher since EE couldn't measure his power properly.
See This game is not for you
Puppet whose strings have been cut.
>What does it say about job classes?
It literally says he has 0 levels in job classes.
He has no job classes.
60 IS very high user.
Guys, this is fucking YGGDRASIL we're talking about.
I'm sure there's a dedicated Crossdresser class that unlocks normally gender-locked classes. Naturally, Mare has it maxed.
There's about 700 races & classes so you could take one level of each class and still not even reach half. Plus you'de be one huge shitter of a character.
Even Go-Jin could kick this fuckers ass.
But we r legun
Wonderful argument, user. Truly 10/10. You never fail to disappoint.
I'm not the one who's offtopic and literally on the wrong board entirely.
No ranged attacks.If you want to make it fair give him some item to fly.
That only applies to starters since you need items/special conditions for the higher tier classes.
Unironically the wisest person in the thread, everyone. Listen to him.
I have no levels in the listener class
>I'm not the one who's offtopic and literally on the wrong board entirely.
You sure about that?
I'm talking about your notions of good and bad game design as they relate to Yggdrasil. You're apparently simply talking about good game design.
>Sucks to be you
You get triggered by male Valkyries, I don't Ygg or any MMO is for you.
so any news about Go-Jin? He is alive but what comes after that?
Why not? There are no male valkyries in Ygg.
>You're apparently simply talking about good game design
As it relates to Ygg. Work on your reading comprehension, user.
True, but there's probably enough classes with no/low requirements to reach 100 levels and have more than enough left over.
I'm just trying to imagine what a character like that would look like because it sounds absolutely hilarious. Just trying to compile a list of 100 classes sounds like a fun exercise.
>there are no male Valkyries because I say so!
>there are male Valkyries because I say so!
Having male Valkyries? Next we're going to have male Witches.
>my face when
Luckly for me I am lv7 in reading.
But I am only lv5 at spelling.
Anyone here offering PL services? Need to PL my spelling by 2 levels.
I didn't say there were any, unlike you.
How the hell does it relate to ygg if you're saying you're not 'demanding' anything of Ygg? Are you simply sharing your visions of good and bad game design and expecting that Ygg conforms to one or the other? Are you thinking about what is good and bad game design and believing that Ygg will follow these guidelines because of your subjective opinion on what is good or bad, ignoring that canonically the game doesn't care? Are you using 'design' as an argument in whether or not gender restricted classes make sense in Ygg? If you're doing any of these then my original arguments make sense and aren't strawmen, since that's the only assumption I'm making. If you're not and simply saying what is and is not good design then you're not relating it to ygg and are therefore off topic.
I'm not getting triggered but I don't see why you object so strongly to the concept of gender locked classes besides 'game design'.
I also didn't say there were any.
Geralt isn't a Witch, he's a Witcher. Different shit, have you even read the books?
>I'm not getting triggered but I don't see why you object so strongly to the concept of gender locked classes besides 'game design'.
It's bad game design user, that's all.
Then you're off-topic, go back to /agdg/. Nobody actually cares about whether or not something is good game design when the game in question doesn't actually exist and we'll never play it. This contributes nothing to Overlord-related discussion.
This isn't you?
Yes, that's me.
Ok, so it's 'I'm just telling you my opinion regardless of LN context'
>Nobody actually cares
>I speak for everyone!
You're off topic.
It is in LN context.
You're a retard.
ITT: anons get triggered by Design(bad).
How many times do I have to say this has to do with Ygg?
Off topic can only exist in cancerous generals, friend. Don't be that guy.
Let's end the discussion with my words of wisdom: male valkyries are fucking retarded. Lore over game design.
>It is in LN context.
What LN context? If you're not expecting Ygg to conform to your subjective standards then you're off topic. If you are expecting Ygg to conform to your subjective standards you're a fucking retard because the devs have consistently smacked game design in its face with their cock.
I'm still waiting for an answer. Do you expect it to be applied to Ygg using game design as an argument?
I don't care if male valkyries exist, but I do fucking care that you think you're the end-all-be-all of game design expertise, especially since Ygg's designers literally did not fucking care. Longinus is probably the top tier of poor game design but it's still a thing.
I'm pretty sure off topic can exist in every thread with specific topic.
It seems we are at an impasse. Luckily I have the solution:
>I think games care as much about mythology as I do!
>I think everyone's as autistic as I am!
>I get triggered by Valkyrie cock!
Ygg is not the game for you, user.
>implying they don't
The entire fucking game was built off a nordic legend.
the premise is one of the better things about this novel
it's set in the future so it takes care of any sci fi questions with "new tech" but the guy is in an MMO so it simultaneously removes any baggage that could've come from the real world except of course ainz's humanity, allowing it to fully focus on the new world without having to bother much with the "going home" trope
Could Hamsuke defeat the FDL?
>game devs don't care about game design
>game devs care about mythology
Are you serious?
>volume 2 Hamsuke
>volume 10 Hamsuke
>Devs picked a random name from yurope to sound cool
>Built off nordic legend
Longinus exists, it's the pinnacle of shit game design where a mind controlled peasant can delete hundreds of hours of toil.
>I think game devs care as much about good design as I do!
>I think everyone's as autistic as I am!
It could actually be quite difficult since there might just be a few beginner classes that then specialize further from there.
For instance, you have:
- Shield Fighter
- Paladin (needs levels in Shield Fighter)
- Fire Mage
- Ice Mage
- Lightning Mage
- Spellsword (needs levels in Fencer)
- Ninja (needs level 70+ and 50 levels in thief-type classes)
- Trap Master (needs levels in catgirl (male)
- Eldritch Knight (needs levels in Shield Fighter)
And so on.
Why the fuck do you think you're the clear expert in game design? Can you not accept that some people don't agree with your logic or vision? Can you not accept that there are some devs with a vision who will compromise the game itself if they have to in order to create the game they want and that Ygg is clearly made by this type of person with a vision that they won't compromise?
If you have a WCI you're not a peasant, retard.
ALL OF YOU FUCK OFF
It's autistic for game devs to care about game design? You're a smart one.
Valkyries are female. I really don't get what's hard to grasp abou that. Medusae are female, Succubi are. A male can't become a Succubus or a Medusa without also changing sex, their gender is a defining aspect of them. Having a male equivalent is fine but Valkyire (male)? Come on.
This is such an awful thread.
Use something like Downfall of Castle and Country to control some shit NPC, arm it with Longinus, you can now delete anyone who isn't himself holding a WCI
Your vision of game design is not the only one.
>Yggdrasil is an immense mythical tree that connects the nine worlds in Norse cosmology.
>Each leaf represents a world.
>The final boss is a giant snake eating the leaves of the tree.
>Yggdrasil the game has 9 worlds corresponding to the nine homeworlds of Norse mythology, which represent the last remaining leaves of the tree.
>World Class items represent leaves eaten by the giant snake.
You haven't really made a case beyond spouting random bullshit.
You might think you're a master troll, but the joke's one you: we're all bored and have nothing to do anyway.
The thread has spoken.
Blame the fucking game design and >lore autists
Mostly the former but the latter for continuing to bite
>it's a good game design because I said so
Also Ygg devs are known for not caring about game design.
Yggdrassill's devs always had an attitude of, "Tough shit" whenever someone wanted them to conform to their norms.
Making gender restricted classes is right up their alley. I mean, you wouldn't have a male shrine maiden and shit, would you?
It's a game, user. Try to understand that. A valkyrie only needs a pair of wings, a lance, and some holy magic. You can easily add those on to a male. Use your imagination.
>ouroboros literally lets you force the devs to change code
>five elements lets you redesign part of the magic system
>muh game design
I don't think that's the case for two reasons: the novel explicitly mentions it being possible, the novel is also based off of DnD (mainly 3.5) which had an endless amount with all the splatbooks & random bullshit that came out with it.
yeah they are more mad alchemists
that dabble in the arcane
Witcher is a mutant that hunts monsters with a silver sword.
Witch is a practicioner of magic.
>it is a game user
This is why I say you're fucking off topic
You have LITERALLY no arguments that actually use part of the game as evidence. All the other anons, myself included, have cited the game, items of the game, lore which is generally followed or else replaced with 3.5e shit, and the 'haha well sucks to be you xD' attitude of the devs when faced with what would be complete bullshit in most other games.
Thinking about it, someone could just use Ouroboros to demand unlocking restrictions on a class.
I wonder if they would grand you the Eclipse class as a non-Overlord with it?
You mean, as illegal than illegally translated chinese cartoon?
Good gracious, how criminal!
Most likely, Ouroboros seemed to be like, a much bigger version of Wish. I mean they kicked Nazarick and Nazarick alone out of an entire worldspace with it.
A demon with horns and wings is not automatically a Succubus.
Call it half-angel or some other edgy bullshit but not Valkyire.
Your autism is ridiculous. Are you really that triggered by Valkyrie cock?
>one player can change magic system of the whole game
>bunch of players should be immune to those changes
>devs can't actually figure how to do this shit so they've just wrote an apology letter
Sure is good game design™.
Valkyries don't use lances in mythology (they use spears and magic swords) and it's not likely to be part of their class requirement. Valkyries are always female in mythology - you might as well make them be demons if you're going to throw whatever parts you want out the window.
Probably, but why bother when Overlord is the most suitable to actually take advantage of the benefits of Eclipse? All it really does is improve the instant death spells of a class already heavily specialized in instant death spells.
Putting the Eclipse class on a Generalist Wizard or something not only sounds like a waste, but it'd probably actually make you weaker than not taking the class.
I'm glad we all agree that gender-exclusive classes are bad game design.
>once again he resorts to cries of autism
Also remember not to bring this shit into the next thread, the poll is in favor of telling everyone involved to fuck off
Not every country has copyright laws.
True, I was just thinking about other games which start with novice-level classes that specialize further. If you basically allowed people to play Fire Mages, Sap Masters et al from the beginning it would be fine.
It's not necessarily true that Overlords are the best at instant death spells. Momonga's build is that of a necromancer in general, so he's got a lot of summoning undead and reinforcing undead abilities.
A pure death mage would work out differently, and benefit massively from TGOALID.
You're off topic.
>Player affects world state
>bad game design
I bet you enjoy those shitty Skyrim guards calling you a peasant after you defeated 20 dragons and is the ruler of the land
You could turn that around and say Momonga specialized in death spells and picked up undead creation/buffing because it came with the territory.
You're right gender-exclusive classes are bad game design.
Letting male characters play as Valkyries is even worse game design.
He explicitly built for flavor, which means lich king of zombietown.
Why are you being such a lore autist? Games come up with their own mythology. Try to accept that.
You're off topic.
>Why are you being such a lore autist?
What the fuck are you doing in an Overlord thread?
If you're this triggered by the idea of Valkyrie cock, you shouldn't be playing MMOs.
Off topic; see .
He built to be the ultimate skelly lord. Nothing was mentioned about whether he specced for death spells or undead creation. His skills boost both, though.
>Yeti beastmen totally exist.
>I don't have any proof but they do.
>It's off topic because I say it is!
It's related to Ygg, retard. Follow your own polls advice and fuck off.
Off topic; see .
user I would love to talk about how great Enri is but it's obviously not the time for that.
Thread will die soon enough and new chapter in 2 and a half hours, so just chill.
There's no flavor in "guy with the death beams". There's flavor in "guy with the army of the dead".
What's the difference between a death mage and a necromancer? In DnD death magic (with a few exceptions) is inherently necromancy and the novels haven't contradicted that so far.
Maybe an illusionist could get some marginal use out of it with their "scare shit to death" spells if Eclipse also bypasses immunity to mind-affecting spells, which it may or may not, but probably doesn't. It just seems like a waste of a WCI when Eclipse isn't even that strong.
Jokes on you.
I like my girls with cocks.
You're off topic, again.
Nah I'm pretty fucking tired of this bullshit. Everyone in involved and especially the game design retard is off topic and none of them are actually generating discussion. If I've learned anything from cancerous generals, it's that the only way to combat autism is with even stronger autism. I'm hardly top tier but I try.
Off topic; see .
Why are you so triggered by the idea of male Valkyries?
The absolutely retarded Valkyrie discussion best die here lest other Overlord threads fall to obvious bait.
Off topic; see .
You've been off topic this entire thread, user. You're in no position to criticize game design user.
There's flavor in "master of soul ripping", and in both cases Ainz STILL has skills buffing undead creation and necromantic spells so Eclipse STILL works for him.
>What's the difference between a death mage and a necromancer? In DnD death magic (with a few exceptions) is inherently necromancy and the novels haven't contradicted that so far.
Just so. In D&D, wizards make terrible zombie summoners. Invoking large quantities of weak undead is the right of Clerics. Making small quantities of extremely powerful undead is the domain of Dread Necromancers, a non-core base class. Making limitless undead while being undead is the job of a Pale Master.
Wizards? Wizards get Summon Undead I-IX which is really shit and Animate Dead which is still super shit. What Wizards get is death beams and debuffs and all the AoE Save or Dies you can handle.
You really can't do both in D&D, despite all being part of the Necromancy school. You're good at undead crafting or the death blasts.
Off topic; see .
I'm not involved in this shit, my only posts that aren't this 'off topic' spam came before the narberal poster that brought last thread's bullshit into this one.
Can we just take a moment to talk about game design?
Mods cleaned up your shitty pool user.
Let's hope they clean up everything else too.
lets hope they also clean you up.
>nearly 500 posts
>not even 50 images
Apparently, 4 people voted in favor of my "Valkyrie gender bullshit". So let's be clear; games are not as autistic as you are; they don't give a shit about your muh mythology.
Don't get so triggered by Valkyrie cocks.
Because, user, as we have told you a couple times already now, it doesn't make any sense. Valkyries are exclusively female. That is why people who actually know and care about lore are repulsed by the idea of genderbending it for the sake of "game design".
You'd think even an autistic like you would get it after the fifth time but apparently that's too optimistic.
>shitstorm dies naturally
>tries to revive it
Can you not
This is such a trivial issue; you lore autists are the ones getting so triggered by this. Games come up with their own rules and version of mythology. Try to understand that. And that's not to mention the game design aspect of it.
i know right?
What the fuck is your problem?! Are you legitimately retarded? Valkyrie = female. Get that through your thick skull.
>shitposter is probably humiefag still salty his "dragon lords will beat Nazarick" headcanon is as dead as Gazef
You could also make a 5 metre tall goblin. That would however not be a goblin.
The game could, of course, make male Valkyries. They would however not be Valkyries.
Are you seriously doing this?
>what is bait
Ygg devs are canonically confirmed to not give a shit about game design though.
Your Valkyrie is nothing more then a pair of wings. Why don't you understand that?
Yes, we are seriously doing this, a game can call anything they want however they like, that does not make it that thing. There is no male Valkyrie, there is no 5 metre goblin, there are no male Succubi or Medusae.
Why do you want Valkyrie cocks so hard?
So that means they give a shit about mythology?
Mate, to think that I actually fell for the retarded shit you've been sprouting. Cheers.
At least call them gorgons if you're arguing for mythology, because D&D does have male Medusas.
>a game can call anything they want however they like, that does not make it that thing
Sounds more like:
>it's only a Valkyrie if I say it is!
Who would be the better mother to Ainz's hypothetical child/heir?
Shalltear or Albedo?
I'm done with you, mate. You're a joke.
It's literally a pair of wings. That's the defining characteristic of Valkyries.
The jobs of Valkyries are more or less twofold
To find Einherjar and invite them to Valhalla
To be cocksleeves for said Einherjar when they arrive at Valhalla.
That's what I've beens saying. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about so of course it doesn't make sense to you.
Says the lore autist.
That's not relevant.
But it literally isn't. The defining characteristic of them is that they're incredibly attractive winged females holding a spear.
>That's not relevant.
>the essence of a valkyrie is not important
Get this through your thick skull, valks are not winged humans, that's literally not the most important part of them
The most important part is that they're girls, barmaidens, wenches, sluts for the einherjar cock. That's their defining characteristic, even the most famous one, Brynhildr, takes part in what amounts to a love story.
>implying males can't be attractive
>implying males can't have wings
>implying males can't hold spears
Are you retarded, user?
No idea about mythology, but the novel has given us at least one example of having an incredibly limited and hard to access class to the point where almost nobody knew it even existed simply because it made thematic sense in the context of their game.
That makes it seem more likely that they're also willing to limit/restrict classes in various ways so they make sense thematically rather than gameplay wise and having female-only Valkyries makes thematic sense.
It's not conclusive, but about 90% of what goes on in these threads in conjecture and conjecture is more fun if you have at least a shred of evidence to use for theorycrafting. Meanwhile you're doing boring baseless shit. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, you're just boring so you might as well be wrong.
Yes, that user is retarded. Listen to
This is lore autism. Games are not as autisitc as you are; why don't you understand that?
They literally have to be female. By your logic there's no reason a guy with horns, wings and a tail and who is built to make girls wet can't be a succubus. That's literally not what they are. Succubi must be female. Valks literally carry mead in revealing clothing and ride the dicks of Einherjar.
Because that what Valkyries are. How is that hard to grasp?
Because that's literally what they are
You don't make a Giant and then make him two feet tall.
Speaking of gorgons and D&D, I wonder how this lorefag reacts to what D&D calls gorgons.. that is, giant cows made of metal that spews poison.
(The original monster manual entry was confused with the mythological Catoblepas and D&D is forever married to its legacy.)
>a guy with horns, wings and a tail and who is built to make girls
That's an incubus. What's your point?
>Valks literally carry mead in revealing clothing and ride the dicks of Einherjar.
This is flavor text. It's optional. There more important physical characteristics such as the wings.
If you had a Valkyrie that could do everything BUT that and filled all the other requirements, it still wouldn't be a Valkyrie
Valkyries aren't actually warrior women. They're slut and barmaidens and scouts for the big hunks that will be useful during the end of days.
You both are autists. I speak for at least 12 men.
Those physical characteristics include being female.
>that's an incubus, your point?
Which is not a fucking succubus.
>it still wouldn't be a Valkyrie
You're still using the "it's not a Valkyrie unless I say it is" argument. C'mon, user.
No wonder the threads are getting deleted if they're filled with garbage like this one.
>Valkyries aren't actually warrior women.
Are you even trying?
It literally isn't a Valkyrie unless it meets the requirements for being one, which includes being female. They literally have to be female, Valkyries are one of a host of female figures that serve the head god Odin. Anyone who doesn't fulfill these requirements is simply not a Valkyrie by definition.
correction it would be cocytus
A few threads ago we went off on the same derail with lovecraftian mythology instead.
They're not, their job is to scout out the Einherjar and provide entertainment for them. The problem is that there's basically no divine beings in Norse mythology which can't fight, which means that since they reside in Valhalla, they're godly fighters by default.
the one with premade baby clothes she knitted. plus she has dem baby making hips. litteral semun demun pheromones n shit man.
albedo a best and shallchair is likely unable to concieve due to being an undead preteen granny. shes a kinky lil bitch doe so when ainz wants something different and fun she his go to.
You're obsessing over the female aspect of it. Don't you realize that's trivial? Wings + Spear + Magic = Valkyrie without the optional flavor text.
>teaches you how to use weapons
>four arms for snowball fights
Best uncle ever.
That was different, it was about anons getting assmad that people dare to use Lovecraft's names while not being 'true to his vision'. This is about one user, who probably baited the entire thing to begin with, unable to accept the dictionary definition of a valk.
So by this logic Incubi and Succubi are exactly the same?
Not all valkyries use spears. Not all of them know magic beyond the most basic runic shit. Literally all of them are female, there is no exception and none are allowed.
When I saw the poll go down I was hoping everyone involved in the argument would get their shit deleted at least desu
>The woman part is trivial, not the gear they used
At this point I really can't tell if this is just a persistent shitposter or an actual autist
Poll wasn't even taken down by mods, I deleted it myself.
Valkyries who were holding a dick in one hand and a jug of mead in another don't suddenly stop being Valks.
I know I was there, this is even worse.
>ANIME and MANGA
Yeah this has already gone to shit and we haven't even gotten a full chapter translated.
Cred Forums self moderates desu
>can't tell if this is just a persistent shitposter or an actual autist
People are probably wondering the same about you at this point.
You either stop posting or post long enough to see yourself become the autist/shitposter.
valkyries are by definition female. end of story. this faggot wants to be a male asimar and crossdress.
In Norse mythology, a valkyrie (from Old Norse valkyrja "chooser of the slain") is one of a host of female figures who choose those who may die in battle and those who may live. Selecting half of those who die in battle, the valkyries bring their chosen to the afterlife hall of the slain, Valhalla, ruled over by the god Odin (the other half go to the goddess Freyja's afterlife field Fólkvangr). There, the deceased warriors become einherjar (Old Norse "single (or once) fighters"). When the einherjar are not preparing for the events of Ragnarök, the valkyries bear them mead. Valkyries also appear as lovers of heroes and other mortals, where they are sometimes described as the daughters of royalty, sometimes accompanied by ravens and sometimes connected to swans or horses.
>In Norse mythology
Who gives a shit then?
Because that is where the Valkyries come from, holy shit.
Is the Yggdrasil game located inside a tree, user? Because that's what Yggdrasil is.
The name of things and classes are marginally related to real things, what is it that you don't get about that
It actually is
You being too retarded to accept definitions gets old, user.
no, it takes place on the leaves of a tree called yggdrasil, perhaps you'd know that if you read the story
Devs define Valkyries however the fuck they want
No one gives a shit if you think Valkyries can only be female.
Your game your rules that's like D&D 101.
So basically what you're saying is that you're actually the dev of Ygg which is why you're the one whose arbitrary and completely groundless definitions should be accepted
How many media with male Valkyries actually exists?
I'm saying that if I was the dev of Ygg and I wanted to make male Valks then there would be male Valks, yes.
...but you're not, so there aren't. There could be, but there still aren't. So?
Hey guys, how do you pronounce Re-Estize? Isn't it Ri-Estize anyway?
Tactics Ogre had em once.
I have no idea what you're saying now.
Can we stop talking about gender locked classes?
Were the male ones called Valkyries ir Rune Fencers?
That's what we've been saying the entire thread, finally we agree.
I sexually identify as a Valkyrie. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the battlefield harvesting the souls of manly Nordic warriors. People say to me that a man being a Valkyrie is Impossible and I’m fucking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install radiant wings on my body and giving me a sex change. From now on I want you guys to call me “Valfreya” and respect my right to bring warriors to Valhalla. If you can’t accept me you’re a valkyriephobe and need to check your Midgardling privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.
I'm just filling time until thread dies user.
>giving me a sex change
So you're a male and you're getting a sex change so you can be Valkyrie.
Rune Fencers, but it was the exact same class.
worst overlord threat ever
But it wasn't a male Valkyrie then.
Witch and Wizard aren't different classes either. Nor are Ninja and Kunoichi. It's sheer aesthetic.
>What is an Incubus
Still the male characters don't have Valkyrie/Witch/Kunoichi classes.
They have Rune Fencer/Wizard/Ninja classes.
Because there are no male Valks or male Witches.
I find no meaning in this differentiation.
Yet the game devs did.
Now, when I woke up the old thread was dead already but I'm assuming this whole shit started with anons arguing about wheter Valkyrie Knight from Roble Holy Kingdom is male or female.
In this case the male would be called Rune Fencer Knight not Valkyrie Knight.
I still want to see Valkyrie-chan mind-broken upon the Rod of the Incubus...
Dude male valkyries lmao
Delete your fucking pic or kill yourself. No 3dpd pls.
You do realize that Shalltear's gods that she gets her clerical magic from are "shitty lv 50 event bosses", right?