Why does Joe overshadow Ippo so hard?

Ashita no Joe is the shit, sure, especially the manga; but why the fuck does Ippo just get shafted cuz Joe is the more overtly serious one. If you watch the anime for both, Ippo is pretty much undeniably better. It's directed better (particularly the editing and perspectives, shot composition is much less showy which is why plebs are more impressed by Joe's direction), paced better, the music and use of it is better, plus Ippo's first opening is pretty much the peak of the concept of a "raw energy shonen intro"

Like shit there's nothing wrong with liking Joe more but its just super fuckin lame that its created this conception that Ippo is like some meme garbage that shouldn't be taken seriously or talked about with any fuckin respect.

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Haven’t read Ippo but Joe is a timeless classic. From what I’ve seen Ippo is similar in many ways, just like other shit when two things are similar they’re going to be compared and pited against each other. Joe is such a good classic Ippo suffers because of it

for sure. its just sad that it has to be this way, and they can't both be appreciated for their greatness

This is a ippo thread now.
Do you guys think he's retiring for good? or was the whole brain damage thing a hoax?

I literally can't even imagine Ippo ever ending, I have no idea

>why plebs are more impressed by Joe's direction
Nigga, MADHOUSE Ippo is good. But they can't be compared to Dezaki's direction. The man is a legend.
youtube.com/watch?v=e9flDw-JApg

Ippo is a story about boxing.

Joe is a story about life.

nah, dezaki has nowhere near as tight an understanding of the actual punches and weight and ways to edit for tension.

god thats so lame

> If you watch the anime for both, Ippo is pretty much undeniably better. It's directed better (particularly the editing and perspectives, shot composition is much less showy which is why plebs are more impressed by Joe's direction), paced better, the music and use of it is better, plus Ippo's first opening is pretty much the peak of the concept of a "raw energy shonen intro"
Are you seriously impressed by the difference in production value between a 2010 show and one from fucking 1970?

ippo came out in 2000 you pleb. and by the way, i think anime has only ever looked worse since the 80s, so it's an accomplishment on ippo's part, looking as good as joe when it came out in the digital age

Nigger the Ippo anime was still going 10 years since then
It's not like it matters anyway, because fucking of course any anime made in 1970 is going to look dated. High production values for long-running series were not a thing back then

>try to watch Joe
>15 episodes in he is the most insufferable brat protagonist in all time, goes to jail and dont start boxing until literally all the cast beg him to

I think Joe looks great dude, I'm just saying Ippo looks better. Everything I'm saying is just about the first season of Ippo, I've read the manga for all the content in the later seasons and from what I've heard those look a lot worse. Joe season 2 came out in the 80s, and that looks incredible, and better than the first season. Also, Ippo actually doesn't have very high production values if you pay close attention, there are just a lot of skilled techniques used to make that a non issue.

lol don't be a bitch.

>Ippo's first opening is pretty much the peak of the concept of a "raw energy shonen intro"
That's why. Ippo is just a fucking shounen. Ashita no Joe hits more with the adult crowd because it deals better with dreams and defeat.
Besides, Ippo gets repetitive as fuck. Ever fight in Joe is different.

>god thats so lame
This thread is unironically "childhood is ippo, adulthood is joe"

Joe is a shonen too though. Like part of what makes Joe so incredible is that it's inspiring as fuck, it's for kids. The way the dialogue is written, the simplicity of the formula, the fairy tale beauty of it, etc; kids. And besides, something being for kids doesn't neccisarily make it better or worse. And if you want to pull the repetitive card, every fucking guy in the second season of Joe is introduced in the same way.

yeah thats the mindset im fighting against

Just wait for Sendo to fight the Mexican world champ and fucking die. No amount of brain damage is keeping Ippo out of the ring once that happens.

Keep watching you little bitch

Joe ran in a shonen magazine but it was written quite clearly for an older audience in mind, which was intended by the magazine's editors as well. It's really not as simple as you seem to think it is. If you compare how character development is done in Joe compared to Ippo or other popular shonen, there's a world of difference. There's a reason why it was one of the few shonen manga that a bunch of college students read fanatically.

I take Joe incredibly seriously.

Written for a slightly older audience doesn't mean better.

Don't throw around meme words like character development in a real fuckin conversation. Most of Joe's characters are actually quite static, it's one of the more engaging aspects of it that because they're adults, they are done growing up and thus don't have as cartoony of "arcs" as is typical of anime. Nonetheless they are very simplistic characters that never attempt to be more palpably complex than what a child could understand, you're just underestimating 12 year old boys lol. Ippo obviously has more simple characters but not by much.

the japs fear the MEXICAN

Joe literally resonated with every manga reader in Japan during the time it was being published. Ippo could never compare.

sorry bro, Joe is just that much better than Ippo

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joe is like super high tier impactful and obviously way more human than ippo, im not denying that, but ippo's raw technique should be admired by all, and i'd say ippo is praiseworthy on levels beyond that, though those would obviously be harder to convince others of

Has nothing to do with Ippo in particular, Joe overshadows a ton of shounen in general due to the impact it had at the time.

>but its just super fuckin lame that its created this conception that Ippo is like some meme garbage that shouldn't be taken seriously
This doesn't exist, except maybe on Cred Forums where people argue about anything.

>Like shit there's nothing wrong with liking Joe more but its just super fuckin lame that its created this conception that Ippo is like some meme garbage that shouldn't be taken seriously or talked about with any fuckin respect.
Ippo becoming "meme garbage" is not Joe's fault, its Ippo's own fault for not ending when it should.

>shot composition is much less showy
Exploding french fries everywhere and 720 no scope Dempsey Rolls is not less showy.

Ippo gets criticized on it's own merits (or lack of), the comparison to AnJ has always been forced by people who probably haven't read one or the other. They tell fundamentally different stories and are products of different eras, AnJ was explicitly targeted at the post-war Japanese youth.

>ippofags are trying to blame joe for their preferred manga going to shit

that's more camera stuff rather then specifically what i meant by like showy compositions. ippo sticks mainly to close ups and such which aren't impressive to normalfags because they don't have some obvious symmatry or lighting effect.

So is Ippo just fucking over now or is it gonna be the Takamura show now?

...

lol so realistic and mature wow

Ippo is praiseworthy in minor things. It's like Tsugumomo, which excels in art but can't really compete because its story is super generic.

I think Ippo, particularly the first season of the anime, can be praised for pretty much all elements of its technique. The pacing, sound design, direction, structure, animation, etc.

I'm 15 episodes in and I can already notice his subtle changes, your a fag.

Joe is shit, with a shitty MC, shitty art, shitty end, but liking it makes you look like an "elitist", that's the only reason people still read it, Ippo is better in every way.

>Implying Joe is hard to understand
t. brainlet
literally
you're dumber than jap kids

Loudly disliking it unironically makes you seem more elitist if anything.

Also you don't have to hate one to like the other in general, the similarities the two series have are mostly superficial and tell pretty different narratives (to different generations of people at that, as mentioned Joe is particularly steeped in the post-war sentiment over there at the time). What said is correct and that isn't putting down Ippo at all, the "boxing" isn't the main draw or aspect of Joe's story whereas it is in Ippo.

Ippo spent decades being an absolutely gutless by the book shonen series before it decided to do something interesting with its protagonist. It's undeniably technically proficient, and it'll be remembered because it stuck around for so long and was formative for a lot of people, but in terms of storytelling it just didn't do anything worth remembering. Meanwhile Joe loses to his rival and accidentally fucking kills him in like his seventh fight. It establishes early on that Joe isn't unbeatable and it also takes away his generic shonen motivation, forcing him to find a real reason to box.

Ippo is good, but it's a pop song. Joe is great.

Ippo's manga also got worse over time. It just became PUNCH HARDER - the manga

So should one skip to S2 after episode 52?

Ippo is good because the boxing matches are actually worth watching as you come to expect when you watch a boxing anime, Joe's anime the boxing matches are awful to watch with tons of panned close up screens that freeze on the characters face. I can go on youtube and watch a random ippo fight but I won't ever do that for Joe.

Yeah the boxing is weak in Joe outside of the one or two big dramatic punches, but they're more exciting the first time because it's not as obvious what the outcome will be.

Wow! Compared to that Dempsey roll is nothing.

I remember you forever.

None of you can deny this.

Joe had a better story but Ippo had better fights

Ashita no joe focused on Joe not boxing
Hajime no ippo focused on boxing not Ippo

Honestly the boxing in Ippo isn't really good boxing either. They're exciting fights but in boxing you're usually supposed to avoid being hit. I'm glad George had the balls to have a realistic ending for this kind of boxing.

I agree on that point Ippo's fights are not very accurate it's just guys punching each other and sometimes throwing out techniques

Newest chapter shows when he helped the mangaka guy, his lines were too perfect which means he isn't drunk punch and it was because of the weights he was wearing all the time that threw off his sense of reach.

He'll come back after a few chapters.

Joe is remembered for iconic scenes like his death. Ippo is remembered for the memes.

the real question is, what series have the best doujins?

>They're exciting fights but in boxing you're usually supposed to avoid being hit.
That's exactly why you have other characters that for that, Ippo just has a shitty coach

Yeah all the non-ippo rights are amazing. Kimura and Mashiba, Sawamura and Mashiba, especially the aftermath of the, latter were amazing. Honestly if the series kept going without Ippo it would have fixed its biggest problem.

Ippo has kinda ended up pretty shit at boxing himself, even his coach was appalled at how retarded Ippo was in that last match and his coach thought blocking punches with your face is a genius move.

Ippo literally has brain damage, it's no wonder he can't box. Boxing is hard when your eyes and brain are in perfect shape, imagine trying to do it when you're basically drunk.

He went to hospital and got it checked, his brains fine he's just incompetent.

Joe was a goddamn cultural phenomenon. It's like asking why All in the Family overshadows Home Improvement or something.