Re-examining the Oni-AIDS

Parker Johnson
Parker Johnson

So, after Episode 5, everyone assumed that the tumor on Hiro's chest was what made him special. The most common (or at least most fun) theory was that it was going to trigger his transformation into a Blue Oni.

However from Episode 6, I'm going to posit the exact opposite. I believe, looking at it again, we should take the OniAIDS at face value. As a dangerous growth that was killing him.

02 knew exactly where it was on him. She opened his chest expecting to see it.
She also knew the reaction he was having to it, that it was hurting him.
From looking at her previous partner we can see he has bloodshot eyes and he's covered almost from head to toe, it's perfectly reasonable to assume he had the same growth over his chest.
We know from various discussions through Episodes 1-5 that Hiro is having a polar opposite reaction to everyone else and it's hinted that it's possible he can survive riding with 02
There's two unique things about Hiro that could make this possible. Either that he's "special" as has been hinted from the start, or it's due to how unlike everyone else, he met 02 without any prejudice and has liked her ever since.

Now let's look at what happens during episode 6.

He pilots, the growth gets larger, he gets more pained and more drained. He uses up the very last of his energy, collapses and goes to death's door.

There either with his own internal monologue or with Naomi's ghost he acknowledges that despite everything, he hasn't truly accepted 02. He's just pretended that it's fine for him to die and leave her alone, because she'll be fine: He opens his eyes and sees that clearly isn't true, she's suffering without him.

And thus, he finally, fully accepts her. Which is what allows his body to stop fighting the OniAIDS (like everyone else) and absorb it into him, healing him, bringing him back into the fight, and (most likely) causing severe changes to his physiology- we could see something like half his blood cells were YBC just in Ep5 IIRC.

Carson Watson
Carson Watson

The only real flaw I can think of with this theory is that while we could see 02's previous partner being fucked up, we couldn't see any sign of a tumor on his face whereas Hiros had spread visibly all through to his face.

An interesting possibility with it though is that if all that's needed to make the OniAIDS go away is to accept 02, and for the body to stop fighting against it, then this theory would assume that Mitsuru should also have the growth on his chest, and that it might be possible for him to do exactly the same thing.

Personally I very much hope that's NOT the route they go down, but it's a possibility.

Kevin Flores
Kevin Flores

You see user, he has the tumor because of he having an opposite reaction, that being an increase in yellow blood cells, we can assume the normal reaction to be a decrease, right now we need to know what ybc are and what their purpose is, since there is no such thing in real life.

William Ross
William Ross

Yes, that's what we assumed from Ep5. However, I'm saying I believe Ep6 shows us the exact opposite of that.

The fact that 02 knew all about the tumor, despite the fact it should be the first time she's seen anything like that if it's unique to him and the fact that her previous partner's eyes were bloodshot, just like Hiro's at the end are indications of this.

David Brooks
David Brooks

ybc count
Yellow Blood Cell Count?

David Rogers
David Rogers

The fact that 02 knows about the tumor is the biggest inconsistency I can spot. Hiro has the opposite reaction to what ordinarily happens to those who ride with her, which may explain the tumor itself, but unless there was a precedent for Hiro's situation there should be no way for her to be aware of any of this.
Hiro is 001 clone confirmed????

Alexander Gonzalez
Alexander Gonzalez

Obvious doubt because it was about initial compatibility, all previous pilots didn't satisfy 02, her words not mine. Most likely the yellow cells lead to this kind of growth as well, while past pilots just had a flat out rejection before even reaching that point.

What is obvious is that Hiro was deemed a unique stamin they didn't want combining with 02, but let it happen regardless most likely due to their present needs.

What stays the same is as long Papa has control of the situation he will continue to observe.

Isaac Cruz
Isaac Cruz

Most likely when she was a child, and what happens after a Klaxasaur humanoid bonds with a human.

Lincoln Jenkins
Lincoln Jenkins

Professor Saotome probably knows about OniAIDS, so 02 knows from him. It may be why half his goddamned face is missing.

Josiah Brooks
Josiah Brooks

Which is why I think it's the opposite.

All pilots get the tumor, that's normal.
Hiro is the only one who's been able to absorb the tumor. That's because he could accept her, that's the YBC reaction they were talking about.

That explains why 02 knows about the tumor and why Hiro absorbing it was so important. Rather than the original Blue Oni theory which assumed it'd take him over.

Kevin Clark
Kevin Clark

This makes it sound like Hiro would have the ability to absorb the OniAIDS from a purely biological standpoint, and would render that entire trust thing irrelevant.

Julian Martin
Julian Martin

I'm saying that the entire ability to absorb OniAIDS is based on his ability to trust her.

When he accepts her, that's when his body stops fighting the tumor and absorbs it.

Justin Thompson
Justin Thompson

Then where do you suppose the YBC stuff comes into play? In the other post you made it sound like he could accept her because of the YBC reaction. Does that mean that the YBC abnormality was a result of his trust in her? I thought he didn't fully trust her until the end of episode 6, so this is either bad writing or I'm a brainlet or we lack info

Luke Bennett
Luke Bennett

Naomi's ghost
Naomi didn't die by the way.

Elijah Hernandez
Elijah Hernandez

posts his theory in every single franxx thread
now he's making his own threads for it
please stop

Hudson Lopez
Hudson Lopez

Of course not, she is just in a (((hospital)))

Samuel Butler
Samuel Butler

She just went on a trip upstate to recover, user. She'll be back in time for the second cour!

Brayden Perry
Brayden Perry

posts his theory in every single franxx thread

I haven't posted this in any other FranXX thread actually, but maybe there's something similar out there. I dunno.

Yeah, I figure the YBC count is just his positive reaction to her. As such:

Oni rides with Generic Stamen
Stamen rejects Oni because of negative reaction
Oni-AIDS infests Stamen
Stamen's body rejects Oni-AIDS and fights against it, crashing their YBC count
Oni-AIDS gets stronger each ride, until the Stamen dies

vs

Oni rides with Hiro
Hiro accepts Oni because he's got a positive reaction to her
Oni-AIDS infests Hiro, however because his body isn't rejecting it his YBC count spikes and it offers a polar opposite reaction
Oni-AIDS gets stronger each ride, but Hiro's body is able to fully and completely accept her culminating in him absorbing the Oni-AIDS

Something like that anyway.

Sebastian Bailey
Sebastian Bailey

I haven't posted this in any other FranXX thread actually, but maybe there's something similar out there. I dunno.
If that's the case, then trust me when I say you're not original with the theory

Oliver Hill
Oliver Hill

I'm d for this theory.

Matthew Howard
Matthew Howard

Well luckily I'm an anonymous poster on an anonymous imageboard, so it's not like I'm trying to make a name for myself or anything. I just thought it was a theory that's worth discussing, thus the thread.

Adam Powell
Adam Powell

We know what variables exist, we just don't know how they interplay with each other, or their causal relationships.
blue tumor may or may not be a typical reaction
02 knows about the tumor
accelerated aging is a typical reaction, which Hiro does not show
increased YBC count is an opposite reaction unique to Hiro, implying decreased YBC count is the typical
Hiro is a "special specimen" implying unique genetics
02 knows Hiro is special due to his taste and offering to "awaken his power"
the tumor recedes when Hiro wants to live for 02's sake

So, the assumption we're going with is that the tumor is the typical means by which 02 kills her partners by destroying YBCs, with but Hiro's "special" biology (which 02 was aware of) compensates by producing even more YBCs. However, the YBCs aren't able to overcome the tumor until Hiro wills himself to live for 02's sake.

Did I miss anything?

Hudson Perez
Hudson Perez

Your conclusions don't make sense. Just because all her partners get it, doesn't mean its not a stage in the oni transformation. Her expecting it to be on him could simply stem from her own experience, which would mean the transformation is unique for her partners, but she still lived through it herself.
Or it is not unique and she knew it was there from observing her previous partners who failed the transformation half way through.

Blake Gonzalez
Blake Gonzalez

I don't know about Hiro accepting 02. I'm pretty sure he did accept her from the very get go. He seemingly backed out in ep 4, but after his confession any misunderstanding were cleared out, in my opinion.

What I think changed was his outlook on life.
When he meet him for the first time, he is pretty much suicidal, In his version of the Jian story, he declares a flightless bird as pathetic. He doesn't see himself as worthy and even if is given an opportunity to stay, he volunteers to leave with Naomi. We don't know what happens to children that are send back, but from the hints that we got it doesn't seem as a pleasant faith. So as far as I understand that this is him giving up on life.
As to why would he do this? We clearly see that P13 children’s minds are poisoned by the state propaganda, Papa is a God like being for them, they are willing to sacrifice they lives to defend the adults. They don't know any other life and for Hiro to don't be able to full fill his only meaning in life is pretty much death. He clearly is the one who is indoctrinated the most, other children have some doubts, he seem to follow Papa's will without hesitation.
The need to full fill his meaning is what drives him to fly with 02 for the first time and what keeps him getting back with her, thanks to her he can pilot he can have a purpose, but still he is a little gear in the system, without any of his own thoughts and dreams. Back in episode 3 he let's Mitsuru fly with 02, not because he is a beta-faggot or anything . It's because he is following the rules of the state. The narration tells as that somewhere in his mind there was a thought that maybe she refuses, but she didn't.
Only in episode 4, after the confession we see that he is willing to break the rules of the state, but still he is doing it to satisfy his need to fight in the franxx and by that to serve the state.

Eli Smith
Eli Smith

(OP)
From ep 5 we can see he still is suicidal, that he doesn't care if he dies or not. He wants to fly no matter what.
In ep 6 when he responds to 02 on why does He want to fly he still is persistent on serving the state (how boring). Even in his presumed death he is contempt that he did his best, a job well done, and now I can rest. Then he wakes up and sees the reality for the first time. That it wasn't a glorious death for the glory of the state as he wished. He sees that he left 02 alone, like every other partner before him, he sees her struggle and for the first time from the beginning of the series he makes his own conscious decision that isn't a order from the state or isn't a way to please Papa. He chooses to be 02's partner not for the sake of the state, but for her stake. As to why it should have any bearing on the tumor I have no idea. If it will just despair without a trace and will never be brought up again, then that will be just shitty writing.

Isaiah Butler
Isaiah Butler

inb4 he was part of some human experimentation and that's why the team is called tainted parasites, 02 was the success of the experiments and the time she pricked his forehead with her horns also made him a successfull experiment
inb4 yellow blood cells keep humans from mutationg into klaxxors
inb4 he gets blue horns

Jason Jones
Jason Jones

02 knew exactly where it was on him. She opened his chest expecting to see it.
She also knew the reaction he was having to it, that it was hurting him.
That's something I hadn't considered. However, Zero Two knowing that kind of thing isn't weird: she has much better senses than normal humans and she can smell klaxosaurs. It's possible she could tell and could see through his façade.

then this theory would assume that Mitsuru should also have the growth on his chest
If that's the case, then I'd have to wonder why no one gave Hiro the same medicine or why he wasn't showing any reactions until episode 5. We see him naked in episode 4 and he's completely fine.

Though thinking his acceptance of her has something to do isn't that out there considering that we know whatever she does is through the FranXX, when they're mentally connected. Maybe that means it could still come back if they get more distant.

I think though, that the biggest question this theory leaves open is: Why hasn't this happened before? Doesn't this go against the theme the show is trying to set up?

Jaxon Ramirez
Jaxon Ramirez

Hiro's eyes start flashing red when he's emotionally unstable in the future, giving him oni-like strength when it happens
he will launch Mitsuru through the wall unwillingly at some point

Ethan Taylor
Ethan Taylor

If that's the case, then I'd have to wonder why no one gave Hiro the same medicine or why he wasn't showing any reactions until episode 5. We see him naked in episode 4 and he's completely fine.

Actually that's a really good point. So then we know the tumor didn't show up till the second time.

Good catch. I might be completely wrong then, but either way Mitsuru won't have it.

Jack Russell
Jack Russell

The medicine could simply be painkillers.

It might be a combination of accepting 02 + Hiro's unique biology.

Asher Ward
Asher Ward

They don't know any other life and for Hiro to don't be able to full fill his only meaning in life is pretty much death. He clearly is the one who is indoctrinated the most, other children have some doubts, he seem to follow Papa's will without hesitation.
The need to full fill his meaning is what drives him to fly with 02 for the first time and what keeps him getting back with her, thanks to her he can pilot he can have a purpose, but still he is a little gear in the system, without any of his own thoughts and dreams.
This is definitely wrong. Hiro doesn't pilot because he's indoctrinated. He's actually the least indoctrinated of them. He's the one that named them. Not staying was against the higher ups' wishes. What Hiro wants is a place to which he belongs. He asked Zero Two to pilot with Mitsuru because it was the only way to save his friends. He makes up with Zorome and constantly tries to be part of the team, even botching the plan formations in episode 6 and even if Zero Two isn't a team player. He idolizes Zero Two as a soldier who's not afraid to die, but their reasons for fighting are pretty much opposite. She likes him because he thinks of her as human, he's willing to put himself at risk to protect her, and yet he's not afraid to be seen crying. Hiro doesn't care about the way others see him. He's never abused his role in the system to benefit himself like Mitsuru, Zorome or Ichigo have, because that's not the humane thing to do. He's always humanized everyone around him.

Dominic Cruz
Dominic Cruz

My take on this is:
Thar blue cancer is not some kind of curse that only goes away if you accept 02, neither she gives it to her partners to the point of spawning a fucking massive blue mass on their chests (I do know that it might still be possible though, since that big dude from ep1 was covered), it is just that inside Strelitzia, both the pistil and the stemen share and mix blood.
The catch here is that 02, being (a big) part dino, has a lot of dino cells (YBC?) on her, when absord by the stemen, it causes a big rejection by the stemen's body, which is harmful and potentially lethal.
Looking at Mitsuru after piloting, and assume part of his bleeding comes from this, we can see that only on his first ride he was a lot more strained than Hiro ever was after his first ride (Hiro was fine and had no tumor on his chest during the bath scene).
So the catch here is: Hiro is a special speciment that was modified to "absorb" and "process" YBC.
If we check his blood tests again (and ignore a bit of its discrepancies, pretending it to be legit), we can see that his body is not actually trying to fight this mutation, he also has no external or internal injuries like the other two pilots and is usually just lacking oxigen (heavy breath, body temperature).
This is also why APE didn't want 02 to "mix" with Hiro:
he can absorb and process her YBC
thus, he eases and controls her Dino side to normal levels
which causes her performance as superpilot to drop
Hiro's body accepting her dino cells while the other pilots don't is also part of
opposite reaction

Check Hiro become 02's "headband".

Charles Foster
Charles Foster

What Hiro wants is a place to which he belongs.
Wasn't it an idea introduced by 02 ? That if he doesn't have a place to be, he should make one ?
He asked Zero Two to pilot with Mitsuru because it was the only way to save his friends.
He accepted Mitsuru's idea because it was within the rules. As Mitsuru puts it he was the only available parasite steman of P13. At the time Hiro wasn't an official parasite (still isn't). After hearing this explanation he doesn't question nothing and says 02 to go. Only his narration and body language during the battle suggest he somehow regrets this decision.

Jose Kelly
Jose Kelly

No they don't it's explicitly stated in the show that Hiro's reaction is the opposite of the normal one. So it didn't happen to everyone else.

Lincoln Smith
Lincoln Smith

That if he doesn't have a place to be, he should make one ?
She said he should take a partned by force if he didn't one, and that they were both the same for having nowhere they belong. Only Hiro did have a place he belonged to, which he was throwing away because he thought himself worthless for not being a pilot.

He accepted Mitsuru's idea because it was within the rules. As Mitsuru puts it he was the only available parasite steman of P13.
That's because of his self-esteem and not because he was following orders. He didn't care about either the rules or Zero Two, only that *he* couldn't pilot.

Camden Gray
Camden Gray

Whenever he eats food he pours honey over it aswell just like Zero-two.
He eventually starts breaking glasses and eating utensils since he got annoyed by something.
Zero-two starts giving him private lessons on how to control his new strenght.

Michael Butler
Michael Butler

klaxxcore is a blue sphere with yellow liquid inside
Hiro's growth is blue and his yellow blood cells count is increasing
My bet is on that the thing bringing him back to life is tumour literally replacing his heart. His blood started flowing again when he found a new reason to live, his eyes were glowing red like 02 so his oni transformation continues, but now he stopped trying to reject that shit and it became a part of his body.

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