Zero Time Dilemma

Why does this game have so many puzzle rooms? This is basically a visual novel, except every 10 minutes I'm forced to solve an arbitrary puzzle room that has 0% to do with the plot before I progress.

WHY THE FUCK DO I KEEP SOLVING THESE? Does every new slice of story come with a puzzle room? This is driving me insane. I want to to see where the story goes, but this is just inane and droll. Sorry, but if it stays like this I'm dropping the game and watching an LP instead.

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Why the fuck are you playing the third game in a series that has the same formula of puzzle rooms and story and complaining now?

No it has too few
There isn't even a last puzzle, one of the big dissapointments about it
Fuck off

Because the other games had a better puzzle to story ratio, and they had more narrative importance. You had to solve a puzzle beacuse that's where the character advanced to at that point in the story.

But in ZTD, the characters just randomly wake up in a random room (with all their memories erased, even) just so they can solve an arbitrary puzzle. It's complete bullshit.

Just because it doesn't have a big story dump upfront like 999 doesn't mean there isn't dumps later.

Game is shit m8
Decisions don't matter since unless you get the best outcome you simply get a game over screen and half of the good outcomes end with the game ending or everyone getting killed seconds later

Life is simply unfair, don't you think?

>A quarter of the game is C-Team going "fuck this" and shifting like madmen through timelines to get out of the bunker
>Carlos himself just doesn't give a fuck anymore and shift every 5 second, never hesitates to put himself into life-threatening situations just so he can shift
>somehow fucking *Akane* finds the thought of sacrificing their alternate selves to escape the self-destruct absolutely awful and they actually have a debate about this

I finished the game 4 hours ago and I'm just confused. I feel like this is the sort of game that just gonna make me angrier the more I think about it. Hell, I'm still mad the transition between ZTD and VLR was so fucking underwhelming and that beyond nonsensical twist about Q.

I felt the same way but lucky me I finished the game the first few days I was out so being at the beginning of people making memes really helped the recovery process for everyone. No one was happy about the game at all so creating memes was the only thing to try to redeem the game in any way.

Uchi only wrote the basic draft of the story and had some other people write Team C and Q

Here's Clover.

I'll be fair. Carlos' whole shift nonsense was fucking hilarious and I kinda wish they went all the way with it instead of just falling flat on Apocalypse, which honestly just seem out-of-character nonsense to tie up the games. Carlos going SSJ to fight the Seanbot had me in tears.

>letting the writing of fucking **Akane** and Junpei to other people

Is Uchi fucking retarded or something? I guess that's why they felt so dull compared to them in VLR. Although Sigma suffers from this, so I guess it's not really an excuse.

game has less puzzles than VLR

> just so they can solve an arbitrary puzzle
that's the entire series

>I feel like this is the sort of game that just gonna make me angrier the more I think about it.
You are 100% correct

>Akane's thing was supposed to be her willing to ruthlessly do anything for the greater good
>spurgs out on Carlos
>but whines about shifting
>Carlos, the altruistic hero, doesn't give a fuck and throws his alternate selves under the bus 24/7

>letting the writing of fucking **Akane** and Junpei to other people
That was the best thing that could happen.

D-Team was the fucking worst.
>I'm from za future
>Let's make babies!
>bringing Phi outside is a swell idea. I'm a nurse btw
>the whole bomb nonsense
>faxing their babies instead of using the fax machine to save themselves

What the fuck are you on about? This game has the least amount of puzzle rooms in the series.

>Too many puzzles
>In a puzle centric series

THATS your complaint? Dude 999 and VLR had MORE puzzles then ZTD, ZTD was a damn disappointment by comparison because its puzzles were simple and handhold-y and there was no final puzzle, just a 40 minute cutscene sequence.

Every thread.

I still can't believe that happened.


Why even try and solve the puzzles? Most of them just lead to some shitty decision game where one option possibly kills the team. Was there a rule that they had to find a way out? I mean, they easily could have waited it out or something.

Not him, but on VLR I do feel like it becomes a chore. After completing a good chunk of the game you are fucking tired of going back and having to read unskipable dialog that's just the same thing as before but changing one small little detail. Having to watch people go "What is radical 6?!?!?!" for the 10th time and not being able to skip it just because a name changed along the dialog was just a borefest.

After going through all that and then having to face your 20th puzzle just so you can read more repeated stuff... Not gonna lie, after a while I pretty much forced myself to continue.

What's wrong with the ZE wiki?

>and that beyond nonsensical twist about Q.

The worst part is that I really wanted it to make sense. I really liked the idea behind Q, as they made it very clear no one knew who Sean was, yet no one questioned who Q was. But I don't know, I just can't accept that there's a man in a wheelchair whom you never saw and whom no one ever mentioned. Sure, there were a lot of hints, only a bit too subtle since you never really felt that something was amiss.

That crazy circumcision-hating dude, probably.

I'm kind of disappointed the last thing I heard from him was the shit about Clover's mental illness and that Carlos conspiracy theory, months ago...I was prepared for a wild ride and got none

Because this game wants you to feel like playing not watching a movie

What did he mean by this?
No, seriously, what the fuck did he mean by this?

It means he's the mastermind behind ZE4, 5 and 6 too but he can't reveal what he's thinking because that would create a time paradox

Honest question: how did Carlos become such a meme?

>999 had more puzzles than ZTD

>VLR had more puzzles than ZTD
Did it now? I don't remember.



I hate puzzles and even I thought it didn't have enough puzzles.

He takes as much time to explain how complex his motives are as he does to just fucking tell you his motives.


What's with the hate on Carlos, I kinda liked him in the ZTD not the best character but not the worst either

What hate? He's honestly my favorite character, and Cred Forums tends to like him slightly more than the other participants (but not always).

If you're referring to
then that was just me.

Can we agree with it?

He just told you, his motives are... complex

I'm honestly cool with this we've heard the critiques let's move on to pure love.

>hating on the true hero of ZE

Here single handedly carried C-Team from not being fucking unbearable. His absolute insanity regarding shifting was fantastic even if he never really got fucked over by the consequences like he should have.

Am I a pussy for shedding a tear when when Dianas memory came back and she realized that she's the mom of Phi and hugged hugged her.

He means this But also he kind of explains it at the very end of the game, the scene just after this one.

Best team coming through or should i say family

I'm curious, what makes you think that we were hating on Carlos?

what was HER problem Cred Forums?

failed cardiologist

999 = VLR > Ever17
Still haven't played fucking R11
ZTD is exactly where it belongs

The best VN ever, and the best experience you`ll ever have. Enjoy it!

Who is the best character in ZTD and why it is Sigma?

Did you know that Sigma was, in fact, 62 years old?

I fail to see how it matters

Why was he the best character?

where's kyle


Bump, I guess.
>pic related


Satoru is the fanatic. His plan was successful, resulting in him changing places with the player. Player couldn`t cope with it and went mad, desperately trying to get out of THAT world, ultimately bombing and hoping that it`ll help him to get out of there.


I want to marry Akane!



las plagas


Are you implying that parasites are in ZTD?

I miss Dio memes

Just read this neat article recounting the First Escape Room.
> “But, the fact is that stories have the power to make the real world a better place,”
I think Takao Kato's motives might parallel Delta's. Aside from the whole existence part, he wanted to get his participants to think differently.

Here is the article, not sure how to word it, but I think there is a neat correlation between ZTD and Real Life Escape Rooms. Thoughts?

No ;-;

it is a strange family



>Why does this game have so many puzzle rooms? This is basically a visual novel, except every 10 minutes I'm forced to solve an arbitrary puzzle room that has 0% to do with the plot before I progress.

Literally every 999 game.

E17 > 999 > R11 >VLR > ZTD > RD
Everything up until VLR is fantastic, VLR itself is pretty good, ZTD is not great and Root Double was too boring to finish reading

i am convinced you people ignore 90% of the game and focus on the 10% you like. just like P3fags.

Would you two care for a chicken sandwich?

only if we get to play kick the can after

No, others already voted to play super memory.

Objectively correct ranking, feel free to screencap:

VLR > R11 > E17 > 999 > ZTD > chicken sandwiches > amnesia > complexities > Uchikoshi's ability to conclude a story > Never fucking 7

I'm not capping.


Stop being a shitter.

here's some reasons
>weeb (just look at the way he carried the katana)
>third wheel and siscon
>playing rock paper scissors with a decapitated arm
>his face and expressions
>Don't worry, I won't die (dies)
>Shifting like a madman
>meme english voice
>it's just a prank, bro!
>the 2 Carlos plot hole

by katana I mean axe

I blame Carlos #2.

Who /watch/.

16 in 999, 16 in VLR.
ZTD's the odd one out with 13.

You finished?


Look up "Zero's true motives" on youtube.



>Carlos just standing there with a cut arm, several cuts and his body covered in blood
>"There's a pretty reasonable explanation for all of this"

Carlos should just be the protag in all ZE games.

Wonder if there are any remnants of cut escape rooms left in ZTD.


There's this unused BGM which is pretty jamming.

That's about it though.

>Still giving a shit about Zero Escape when Danganronpa has all the spicy memes

All he did was set up the situation which led to his birth while also addressing the future apocalypse by making sure that the worst case scenario still had 2 billion people alive, and he did that by reading into the minds of time shifters in order to predict the future.
It's not as complex as he made it sound t͏͏b͏͏h͏

Aren't you the same person that always shills Danganronpa in these threads?

>says while posting a ZE meme


I think Akane was just fronting. Earlier she even suggested doing exactly that in the AB room reactor explosion or whatever. But that was just with Carlos/Junpei. When she was in front of the whole group she had to maintain appearances.

But I imagine that each puzzle and cinematic section are stored in separate files the game (PC, Vita, 3DS) can load on command. It isn't apparent if someone has actually combed through each said file to identify all of them. I imagine it would be real easy to test said files in the PC version.

>le 'everything between the first and last day is boring' meme
I get the impression that you have never read a book or watched a good movie.
Not everything needs to be all action sequences to be interesting, user. I liked the entire experience, apart from having to skip through everything again multiple times to get the true ending.

>and having to read unskipable dialog


All dialog you've seen before is skipable.

> I liked the entire experience
It's cool that you like repetitive narrative with flat characters.

>Not everything needs to be all action sequences to be interesting
Please don't ever do this again, you look so fucking dumb.

>no monologues/narration
This is where ztd shit the bed.

This is what I loved most about 999 and VLR. Having those big plot reveals where paragraphs of text covered the screen along with images to go with it.

>it's difficult to boil the reason down to one word


It's difficult to boil the reason down to one word, However if I had to I'd choose complex

Junpei... had a hard life.





Why is junpei so smug?


I'll bump you.


Stop dicking around.

It's been a while, but looks like nothing else has been done with the models that were released. It's a shame, but I'm not surprised.

I liked some of the love story stuff that ended up happening and a lot of the concepts that they tried to show off, but i think a lot of the punch was lost with the janky presentation. I also kind of like that this got a bunch of ecelebs to talk about the series more. I'm just going to admit to myself that the story's taking a hard back seat because i really just want more escape room games to play. It sucks that this one didn't hold up over all, I wish it was better. All that said I'm riding this one out good or bad, I'm too deep in and want these fucking escape room puzzles.

>It's a shame, but I'm not surprised.
Me neither. That takes skill, time and dedication. At a minimum, you would need to know how to fuck around with the models in Blender. Most people are lazy though and are lucky to get the models properly loaded.

>Most people are lazy though and are lucky to get the models properly loaded.
Can confirm. Carlos' face rig still terrifies me.

>ZTD facerig
Oh god, this excists? Do people just add models to that thing or something?



Zero. His response was such bullshit.

I made that choice when I first encountered this decision. I had no idea what else to put.



The only way we made it through the first few weeks after release was shitposting and memeposting. Everyone knew it was awful but no one wanted to really discuss it.

But then the fucking "analysts" came and tore the game a fucking new one with shit on how Uchi screwed the development of the game on purpose and changed the fucking story, literally only 2 or 3 of the 20+ "choices" actually mattering, how irrelevant half the characters truly are to the entire story, etc.

If I could give any Zero Escape fans any advice, it'd be to NOT PLAY ZTD.

>no mention of camera angles

I think the biggest fucking chain yank regarding the "there's a 10th player" twist is:
During the initial scene where Zero's listing off the team leaders, he announces them as such:
>Zero: Team C... Your Leader is Carlos
>Carlos: Fuck!
>Zero: Team D... Your Leader is Diana
>Diana: Shit!
>Zero: Team Q... Your Leader is, naturally, Q
>SeanBot: MEeeeEeeeE?!
>Scene cuts to black

What the literal fuck Uchi. This is not good storytelling - this is you trying to jack yourself off on the fucking player

It's an art to master for sure. For those that can do it properly, I salute.

>has 0% to do with the plot
Oh, you.
>watching an LP
Oh, now it all makes sense.

Is the green text actually how it goes down? I'm not powering on the game to find out.

I paraphrased it, but yes.

When Zero announces the leaders of the teams, the screen cuts to the leaders as they're mentioned. When it cuts to fucking SEAN, he goes "Meeeee?" or something of the sort, indicating that he thinks he's referred to as Q.

Then we get nothing else about the leaders, zero does his thing, and then it fades black.

>I'm not powering on the game to find out.

The only time I'm ever powering this game on again is to shit on it.

You're an hour too late, and I'm not happy too say the least. By any chance, do you have these breakdowns saved?

I have the "Decisions" Breakdown

>"...the theme of ZTD is also to encourage the players to think for themselves about "What is right?""

>The Antidote is?
Logical Decision
>AB Game
Moral decision (UNFORTUNATELY your decision is undermined by not making you live with the consequences of your actions because Akane goes "lawl let's SHIT")
>The Three Dice
Random Chance
>Find the mask
Logical Decision + Random Chance
>Who killed Junpei
Guesswork + Logical Decision
C's Moral Decisions: 1/5
C's Meaningful Moral Decisions: 0/5

>"Don't Press" button
>The Bomb
Moral Decision (UNFORTUNATELY your decision is undermined because your team members ignore your choice to sacrifice the other team)
>Gun vs Incinerator
Logical Decision + Random Chance + Moral Decision. (Actually sorta matters)
>Gift from Gab
Guesswork (Teleportation Paradox = Identity Problem ≠ Moral Problem; It's not even the Teleportation Paradox since the original lives)
D's Moral Decisions: 2/5
D's Meaningful Moral Decisions: 1/5

>Inject Radical-6?
Logical decision
>Dream or Reality
Do I want to commit suicide?
>Who killed Mira
Logical guess
>Helmet Code
>You are Zero
>3-Way Standoff
Mexican Standoff + Moral Decision (UNFORTUNATELY no decision matters as everyone but Mira usually ends up dead anyways)
Q's Moral Decisions: 1/5
Q's Meaningful Moral Decisions: 0/5

All Teams:
>Heads or Tails:
Random Chance
>Execution Votes:
Logical Decision + Guesswork + Moral Decision. (Actually matters)
>Kill Button
Moral Decision (Actually matters)
>Final Decision
Moral Decision (UNFORTUNATELY it rings hollow when all SHIFTers but Diana have already willfully and knowingly killed their alternate selves several times - especially Carlos).
All Team's Moral Decisions: 3/4
All Team's Meaningful Moral Decisions: 2/4

So with all that:



>The only time I'm ever powering this game on again is to shit on it.
ZE always sucks me in regardless so I don't want to power on the game which is why I was asking.

This is kind of a stretch but assuming Sean didn't know Q's name since he wasnt in the base, and assuming he already knew Mira and Eric, the mistake Sean made in assuming they were referring to him as Q (since it was either him or a vegetable, not to mention he didn't know his own name at the time) seems understandable

Is Carlos' face rig that scary?

I think that person was referring to how it looks during the modelling process, not fully rendered...

I saw it and it looked like an unholy abomination. No offense to Carlos

you tell me


It makes me laugh that his default expression is just a stupid but enigmatic smile while Sigma looks pissed as fuck, as per usual
I actually did mess around in blender and managed to rig Carlos correctly but then gave up like a lazy bastard...

Getting everything set up in Blender honestly isn't that hard. All of the textures and assets are there, it's just a matter of aligning the armature literally just rotate-90x and re-assigning the textures.

I'm also a lazy bastard so this is the most I've made of the models.

>I was only 67 years old
>But in my 22 year old body
>I loved Zero so much, I owned all the watches and bracelets
>I play Decision Games every night, thanking him for the life I'm about to lose
>"His motives are complex", I say, "Life is unfair"
>My dad hears me and calls me a faggot
>He is obviously jealous of my devotion to Zero
>I called him a cunt
>He slaps me and sends me to another timeline
>I am crying now, because my face hurts in the previous timeline
>I get injected and forget the previous 90 minutes
>I feel a warmth moving towards me
>I fell something touch me
>It's Zero (Q (Delta))
>I am so happy
>He whispers into my ear, "Why? Because of a snail."
>He mind hacks me puts me on my hands and knees
>I'm ready
>I solve puzzles for Zero
>He transports me with an alien device
>It makes no sense, but I do it for Zero
>I can feel my other selves dying as he kills my dog
>I try to prevent the deaths of six billion people
>I want to please Zero
>He laughs a mighty laugh as he tosses me a gun
>My dad walks in
>Zero looks him deep in the eyes and says, "Plaudite, acta est fabula. "
>Zero leaves as the walls reveal it was all one ward
Zero is love, Zero is life.

Yeah, I know. The sad part is that someone I knew attempted it but still somehow ended up with Slenderman-esque monsters. I'm still scarred for life at the images she sent me.

Oh, I definitely saw that meme before! Good work. You got farther than 99% of those who tried messing with the models...

Do you have said images? I actually kind of want to see them.

>ZTD was a damn disappointment by comparison because its puzzles were simple and handhold-y
Did we play the same game? I needed the internet to solve puzzles in ZTD more than 999 and VLR combined.

...As in, I needed to use it more than once, but that statement is still correct. It's puzzles just feel far more bullshit to me.

Was Carlos even aware of the incoming Radical-6 pandemic in that scenario? And regardless of that, he knew nothing about Delta or his plans until timelines you can only access after, so what could he have done in those ten months anyway?

Sorry man, I deleted them all and the chat. Was even considering printing them out just to burn them.

He used the word "motives", instead of "methods".

It wouldn't have been much better, but it would have at least gone from not true at all to somewhat technically correct.

What happened to the 1904 copy of Phi?

Aww. At least I've never seen that image before.

She became a researcher and raised herself.

I finally finished this today. I honestly can't say I didn't enjoy it, but it was for all the wrong reasons?

What the hell happened?

Not that user, but as someone who's a closet Carlos fan I can tell you that the real issue is the following

>selfless guy does something totally selfish; his intent for waiting doesn't seem grounded by logic (i.e., that he might create a paradox if he stops Delta or prevent more tragedies)--all he wants is to see his friends

That said, I don't really hold it against him and it's true, he knew nothing. He was just an ignoramus and the entire 10 months thing makes no sense anyways. Uchi won't even touch the Carlos 2 plot hole.

>What the hell happened?
Complex things.

I want to do lewd things with Akane!
over half the people here enjoyed it for sure- I went for mediocre and flawed myself.
Laughed my ass off at how absurdly campy half the scenes were, enjoyed the puzzle rooms but was still bitter there were less of them this time around. The ending can fuck off and die though. Absolutely terrible.

I want to lick Clover's butthole!

The sexy one, not the VLR one

I still think ZTD could have been a great game if the exact same twist were done in a standalone game with everyone figuring out what was being a shifter and such.

The real problem is the game is a part of a trilogy and has questions to answer the creators didn't bother with.

I'll be honest with you guys, I would have preferred ZTD and happily played through if it was a 100+ hour game...given that it wasn't stretched out and had exponentially more content.

To be fair, VLR's ending shit the bed too, but at least it was doing great up until then.

Yeah there were times I wish it was just a regular vn. Puzzles were boring.

To be completely honest I get why people are pissed about Kyle and MINDHACC out of nowhere and shit but why does no one ever mention that ZTD introduced FUCKING ALIENS into the setting?

didnt they hint at aliens in VLR? i mean it did take place on the moon and all. i kind of agree though its dumb

Because it didn't. It just confirmed them.

Did you forget Doctor Klim ranting about termites?

I got my watch but I never opened it

I've seen quite a lot of people say the same thing as you just did. They usually get responses like the following...

>everything else was just so horribly distracting
>they're suspended in disbelief
>have decided to make-their-own canon and think it's just humans from a far away timeline or future
>it's so stupid and shoehorned in it's not even worth hating

>The Go-To Guy
>Huh, wonder what that achievement is-
>Complete all Puzzle Rooms
Did this really surprise anyone else? It seemed to pop up so early into the game for me, without having explained shit by then.

>Gun vs Incinerator
This one is ruined by the fact that Sigma WANTS Diana to pull the trigger. With that in mind, there's no logical reason for her not to pull it. If the guy in the chair was begging for you not to do it while it was still the only way to stop the incinerator, THAT would be a moral dilemma.

>Find the mask
I switched first time because I actually know the Monty Hall problem. I lost.

>Gift from Gab
You refuse to drink and you die of poison. If it's more poison, your situation doesn't change. If it isn't, you're saved. Obvious decision.

>Who killed Junpei
>Who killed Mira
You can never use the actual correct answer

>AB Game
>Execution Votes
>Inject Radical-6
Pointless since you have to go back and choose every other decision to continue the game anyway.

>Final Decision
>Moral Decision (UNFORTUNATELY it rings hollow when all SHIFTers but Diana have already willfully and knowingly killed their alternate selves several times - especially Carlos).
Yep. And they can't even say it's because this time only they'd be switching into selves that weren't about to die anyway. They've already crossed that line, I was paying attention.



Like hand holding?

Can someone explain the 2 Carlos meme to me like I'm an idiot?

This again? Guess I have an obligation to explain it as the fool who made that meme.

So, Carlos transports back 10 months.
A lot of people just think about how he ends up in the VLR timeline, but technically there's more to this. His existence branched out to every timeline/decision before then--just like Delta and Phi's did when they were transported back as babies.
And technically, Carlos 2 should have saved the day in every ZTD timeline, but mysteriously he's missing from them. Hence, this is the 2nd Carlos plot hole.

The time-to-decide edit above is mainly just a joke about the Carlos 2=the fanatic conspiracy theory.

Why hasn't Uchi addressed this yet? People must have brought it up to him...

Why wouldn't he have died from running out of food?

I'm not sure what happened prior to the transport (I forgot), but even if he was trapped in there for 10 months waiting for it to recharge it wouldn't have been an issue. Remember, Sigma and Diana lived for that long.

Yeah, Sigma & Diana lived for 10 months off rations-- and Carlos could probably live for 20 if he rationed it out just the same; but after the 20 months he'd expire with no time to fuck around with more plotlines, while his "faxed" self would pop into place.

One could assume Seanbots get rid of Carlos in the timelines that don't match the one he came for, the real plot hole is how Carlos 2 escaped from wherever the transporter was stored but that could easily be explained by Delta hacking his memories and realizing he would be needed so he would set him free.

Well, his original self fails to matter at that point and he probably doesn't care that he starves. His purpose has been fulfilled. It's kind of like how Sigma and Diana probably die after transporting the twins.

But how could the Seanbots dispatch him? Carlos has esper powers. He should be able to avoid being killed, at least in some timelines.

Wouldn't it be funny to have Carlos 2 get into the bunker trying to save Junpei and Akane, just to find his original self after he faxed himself? No starving of bes boi required.

We're basically only following the timelines where everything works out for Delta, so no reason to ask why they didn't do X or use Y. That happened in another timeline, we just don't see it.

Just because you know 20 killer robots are coming your way doesn't mean you can stop it, Carlos barely managed to avoid ONE long enough to fax himself.

You know that he has 10 months prep time? He has so many options by the time the game happens.
>bring weapons
>bring your firefighter buddies
>bring a signal jammer to make the Sean bots completely useless

Fuck, that'd be a priceless timeline. I wonder how frustrated he'd's kind of hard to tell. On one hand, he's a kind, even-tempered man. On the other, the evidence up until now suggests that he doesn't care too much for himself.

Carlos was chosen by Delta so he already knows what he's capable, you simply never have the upperhand against a 124 year old mind reader.

>now neither of us will be virgins!

Delta isn't that powerful, the game just shows us the paths where everything works out perfectly for him.

>you simply never have the upperhand against a 124 year old mind reader
As Delta can't mind read into the future, I can think of some scenarios where other characters namely our time lord Akane could give Carlos some ideas.

Carlos could have been brainwashed at the FTS facility he transported to and then only sent out when the VLR timeline is confirmed. That'd probably fix the plot hole. Just saying.

Sure, but that would be almost as bad as the alien fax machine. You have to suspend your disbelief even further.
>brainwashing someone to forget the last 10 months
>brainwashing someone to believe that he waited those 10 months
>brainwashing someone to believe he got his uniform and a bomb all by himself
Things like these were never established to be possible in this series.

I've taken the liberty to edit this picture so that the last panel is also in negative.

Please forgive my autism.

By brainwashed, that could also mean he was conscripted into being a loyal follower and told to do it after being thoroughly conditioned. Or even mindhacked to do the whole thing.

That stupefied look IS pretty Carlos, though, I'll give you that.

>Please forgive my autism.
It's not inverted after the decision is made, you know.

>? isn't canon
I´m still mad

Nah, it's appreciated. Thanks user.
Maybe it's supposed to symbolize that the decision never truly ends.

He's still making the decision in the last panel. He's just saying that the fact that the entire screen turned negative and a large time to decide screen immediately showed up is fine.

I made the original edit and my interpretation was he decides that the Aliens are fine.

Sleep with me?

Don't think our boy Carlos would give in to something like this that easily. I mean why even go through the trouble if you can just make a Carlos bot and let him do the work.
Also, mind hacking never seemed that powerful, even when Delta wanted to show his "true power". All it does is making someone move their fingers slightly.

Lucky for you, I'm a dog lover.



That easily? This is a futuristic cult we're talking about, well used to torture and psychological manipulation. They'd be able to tear down anyone's will and retrain it with enough time.

Anyways, I can't tell if the seanbots could perfectly pass as human if they had heads, but you're probably right about Delta being able to make a bot if he wanted.
In fact, why even bother including Carlos in this all anyways? To fuck with him? Delta could have used any number of inconspicuous ways to free Akane and Junpei.

He needed an esper and Delta wanted to save the world, an esper firefighter was probably a good choice

>with enough time
They've got 10 months and can't abuse him too much as he has to function as a normal human being by then. The guy would take a shotgun to the face for his friends, so I don't think it would be enough time, especially if he can somehow activate his SHIFTing power like against Dark Sean and switch for a short period of rest and go back again.

> Delta could have used any number of inconspicuous ways to free Akane and Junpei.
Which would work even better in the context of VLR. Now we have to wonder why Carlos isn't even mentioned or hinted at there.

Make a Carlos bot and train him in the ways of SHIFTing. After that make a million copies of that guy and save world with an army of quantum computer shifting bots.

>dogs outside start going nuts the second I play this
>Stop it
>they stop
Fucking rad

I was mainly referring to his role in the C-end. Imagine Delta laying out his overly convoluted plans for this man to shift across the timelines--it's convoluted as fuck, and nefarious. To learn that he caused 6 billion to die...Carlos must have been traumatized. What even was the point? It feels easy to just say that Delta is just one sick bastard.
This is the year 2028--I would have thought there are machines that'd be able to modify a person's consciousness, memories, behaviors, and etc. Is making a robot who's practically a human being in its personality (Sean) somehow far less technologically advanced then this?

>This is the year 2028--I would have thought there are machines that'd be able to modify a person's consciousness, memories, behaviors, and etc
And this would be an ass pull, just like the AFM. Firstly, it would clash with Delta's MIND HACC (why even give him this power if he has technology that can do the same) and secondly it would ruin his COMPLEX motives (why even go through the whole decision game if you can just brainwash everyone and super motivate them to help your cause).

>Is making a robot who's practically a human being in its personality (Sean) somehow far less technologically advanced then this?
Robots were established in the last game. It's also far more easier to make robots work, because we have easy reference points in reality.

>oh by the way I have this alien timespace fax machine

At that point I was 100% sure that he's just fucking with the participants

Like, you go in, then you get injected with the magic memory drug and Zero just changes shit around to make it seem like you timetravelled

I didn't even consider the possibility that it was legit alium technology because that would've been just so fucking stupid

>nope it's just legit aliumnology lol

fuck you uchi

Very complex aliens.

You're halfway right, but mind hack (an immediate action that only works for a few seconds and is just barely a "finger's movement") and a machine that takes fuck-knows how much time to work, but is a permanent solution are far different things.
The downside of the machine could be trauma afflicted to the mind and sense of free will, which might in turn make them less capable of searching for the fanatic.
>robots established in the year 2074
...It isn't like 2074 was before 2028.

But I'm not sure why I have to argue for alien brainwashing machines though. The ZE universe is already fucked up enough without it.
it's something to discuss, at least

>tfw Delta has a full set of convenient alien technology, we just don't know it

I actually expected some joke escene like the shiba inu in sillent hills.

But no , obviously i don't know what i expected in a game like this.

>...It isn't like 2074 was before 2028.
Well it kinda is. Delta can fax himself the blueprints whenever that shit finished development.

>But I'm not sure why I have to argue for alien brainwashing machines though.
Carlos 2 is like the only canon non-metaficiton topic we got left to discuss. We have to go deeper.

Can't say I buy into this but it'd be easily one of the darkest things in ZTD. Being shit on by his friends and being blamed for 6 billion deaths, only to be a brainwashed zombie.

...Wait a fucking second, tech isn't even an issue. Delta has a quantum computer. He can practically do anything, including shift back any blueprints for any nefarious ABM from whatever future year he wants...which is exactly why this topic is so hilarious. Delta can probably do anything, but he just doesn't. It'd make more sense if he was either faking some shit and/or evil.

Seriously, you want to go deeper when you're deflecting everything I'm saying? Okay deep can we even go? There's only conspiracy theories down there.

Delta could have had fusion reactors, robots, cloning technology and quantum computers in 1904. He could have saved his brother Left and started working on an ESPer army with his sister. And that's only using technology established in the game. Who's saying that the terrorist isn't this Delta that found a way to elevate humanity into the 4th dimension somehow.

>Seriously, you want to go deeper when you're deflecting everything I'm saying?
Not deflecting, just saying it's an ass pull and doesn't work that well within the story as if ZTD ever cared about its story

post Phi

>draw boy
>Call it a girl


I want her to explain science to me while we cuddle.

Phi being Sigma's daughter makes much of the banter in VLR more awkward.


What really would be fucked up if gathering up a force of espers was somehow vital in his plan to elevate humanity and they're none the wiser, being fed the idea that the enemy's elsewhere.
Is being elevated to the 4rth dimension necessarily a bad thing, though?

Point received...not that I don't think that it'd fit in perfectly being ZTD is only a series of asspulls.

It makes it better.

Despite everything, this is still my favorite game of the year. It's rough around the edges and has plenty of problems, but you can step back and kind of blur your eyes and still see what the game was supposed to be, before the cancellation, budget problems and subsequent rewrites.

And it's completely understandable given a series that isn't as popular as it needs to be to survive; they used cinematic cutscenes and made the story more self-contained to make the game more newcomer friendly

At this point I wouldn't hope for a ZE4, but I'm glad we got ZTD because it's far better than the way VLR ended. VLR's ending was my least favorite part of the whole series

>Q's(Delta's) and Phi's status change from dead to alive after Diana gives birth to them in that one timeline

...That's actually brilliant

>What really would be fucked up if gathering up a force of espers was somehow vital in his plan to elevate humanity and they're none the wiser, being fed the idea that the enemy's elsewhere.
That would actually make me feel better about all the bullshit in ZTD.

>Is being elevated to the 4rth dimension necessarily a bad thing, though?
This is a question I had hoped ZTD would try to ask. It was teased a bit in Dio's end and Brother's backstory in VLR. But I guess it was too complex for new players, so they went for some simple time travel shenanigans.

He was motivated to make sure he was born in the first place so he caused all of the events of ZTD which would lead to the Bad End timeline that leads to VLR.

The majority of things that take place in ZTD are really to make sure the CARLOS KILLS SIX BILLION PEOPLE timeline happens more than getting the Eight Shifters and one Quantum Computer to experience everything, hone their powers and jump back to the coin toss, prepared to stop the nuclear war.

Yeah, I was just trying to make sense of the end when I realized that it makes more sense if he was just bullshitting the participants..

Anyways I do have to leave now. It's been fun discussing this trivial stuff with you. Maybe we'll see one another again, someday, and dive into the real mystery of Carlos 2...not that there actually is one...