Why do developers keep making maps that are this unnecessarily large? Why do you want maps this big?

Why do developers keep making maps that are this unnecessarily large? Why do you want maps this big?

This is just going to be another open world game where you have to walk for 20 minutes through empty grass/rock textures to find anything unique.

>"B-b-but they just made it empty on purpose for the demo, the final game will be packed full of content, you'll see!"

Listen to me. NO, LISTEN TO ME. It is not even remotely plausible to populate a map as large as this map with a good amount of unique content. The map is just too fucking big, it would take an army of developers a decade to keep that map interesting/unique/full.

Especially after the precedent of the empty open world that every previous 3d zelda set, how can you still delude yourselves that this map won't be 98% generic copy/paste bokoblin outposts?

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Sense of a grand scale can be really nice in games. Also makes reaching the destination and finding cool things that much sweeter.

I don't even like 3D Zelda btw




You get more playtime for your money and it has fast travel if you need it.

Bruh it has fast travel

So you can stop sperging

>Cred Forumsintendo defence force in here instantly


It's funny how you can tell when someone has grown up when their opinion changes from "you get more playtime for your money" to "I'm tired of these empty gigantic games wasting my time"

Don't know. Shadow of the Collossus' almost completely empty map was great though.

>makes stupid thread that everyone over the age of 18 who isn't stupid and can see Nintendo isn't like any other company won't fall for.
>expects no resistance

I dislike Neo-Nintendo as much as any user on Cred Forums. In fact, probably more than most. But if you're not banking on BotW being the GOTD, that's on you user.

That doesn't make the map any less empty though. I liked exploring in the original zelda because it felt like every single map quadrant had some unique secret, like a bombable wall, or a shop behind a waterfall or something

I liked exploring in LttP because the unique secret to map ratio was amazing. You were never more than 45 seconds away from some cool new thing like a minigame or an underground cave with rupees or something.

I won't like exploring in this game because in order to find anything unique I'll have to aimlessly run around in an empty field packed with bokoblin outposts before I find something the developers could be bothered to make unique

Wind Waker was a chore to explore the overworld because of how empty it was, and I just practically played it dungeon to dungeon style. This game is also seemingly going to rob me of a good overworld to explore

Wind waker was basically open world like a decade ago and it was fun.

I wonder if they're going to fuck it up and not include any teleporting musical instruments and the Bird from Skyward Sword.

Like seriously that is really the only reason for a Zelda world to be this gigantic. Skyward Sword was retarded because the only time you could ride your bird was over the completely fucking empty clouds without any redeeming eye-catching or side-shot distances to focus on outside of flying from point A to point B. It would make tremendously more sense to put the bird flying mechanics in this game instead where you can swoop down between valleys and climb into the sky for wicked vantage points.

and judging by how disgustingly afraid they are of putting any good music in this game it almost seems like there wont even be a magical instrument at all.

It's depressing that their retarded E3 demo has actually removed any hype I could have had for this game. I told myself i'd get a Wii U when the game was released, I told myself i'd get an NX when they decided to dual release, but now I have no plans for either if the demo is representative of the final game in any capacity.

Call me nintendrone, but i'll buy this whether it sucks or not. I like contents in the trailer because I also like RPing, and that's all for me. and Link too.

>fast travel
>we know our design is copypaste so here's a button to skip it

that's the opposite of a selling point user

I'm just hype for shirtless link run

>wind waker was open world

the ocean was just a level select screen where you traveled from level to level

Fast travel. Jeez.

>Why do developers keep making maps that are this unnecessarily large?
You have not played this game yet, you don't know if it's actually unnecessary.
>>"B-b-but they just made it empty on purpose for the demo
Not they didn't. the demo wasn't empty.

Try to not ask loaded questions, next time.


I personally hope nintendo does away with magical instrument fast travel though. So many games make fast travel quick and convenient through a menu, without the need to contextualize every fucking step.

I look at xenoblade x where I can just tap a spot on the gamepad to warp there in 5 seconds while in my robot, versus a zelda game where I have to run to a boat, open a menu to equip an instrument, play a song, watch the song play back, choose where to fast travel, watch a small cutscene, then unequip the instrument

It looks like this game isn't going that route, but ubisoft map towers are already a bad sign

see I know I'm going to get 1000 replies of just "fast travel" though anyways

Well they do have an army of developers and it'll be about 6 years after Skyward Sword was released. They haven't made a bad Zelda imo so I have hope.

Pic related is from Gamexplain showing an estimate of the map size. The area on the map is the same as the demo.

Yeah no fucking duh. Op asks a question that disses my favorite franchise so I'm here to answer

>Why do developers keep making maps that are this unnecessarily large?
To allow this:

Because the real world is a big fucking thing and we wish we could have other worlds as big as our planet to explore. It creates a sense of adventure.
The sad thing is, the bigger it is the more likely it is to be empty, randomly generated and/or poorly made. But at least it would feel "real".
Some games should go for this to see if it works at least, taking a risk is always interesting.

>open map
>choose teleport point

you will never fuck up a zelda game as bad as Nintendo can.

I don't follow exactly, I don't think anyone expects the game to have unique content everywhere (aside from the terrain).
Really, if the game has a decent variety of enemies, rewards and environmental puzzles, then I don't think I could complain about the world size too much.

You can teleport from shrine to shrine, so it likely wouldn't be musical based. That being said, Skyward Sword used the harp solely for activating things, so it's not likely to completely be gone.
Speaking of music, they will probably go for ALBW approach and have people playing music in towns.

>Not they didn't. the demo wasn't empty.

You must have extremely low standards then. Like, no mans sky is good level of standards

The entire 9 hour demo was either shrine, bokoblin outpost, or running around collecting mushrooms. Occasionally there was a steppe talus

not the user you are quoting, but see

Too bad sailing across boring, long stretches of water was the worst part of the whole game. It'd be more fun if the islands were half as far apart.

Literally just fast travel. I don't know what you are bitching about. It's a big game and there is nothing wrong with that.

If you don't like exploring then buy a fucking inear shooter.

See any other video games these days worth writing home about?

I'd do another survey of that arid environment, but I fear that this time I will dehydrate and die.

that's all part of the atmosphere building that Zelda has lacked since Twilight Princess though.

It's one part of the many reason why OoT was considered as amazing as it was.

It's inexcusable that some rudimentary 3D zelda game from 1998 is still seen as the highlight of the series.

Because, for some reason, there are tons of faggots that want maps to be bigger and sacrifice level design tightness and depth just so they can go "IT'S MORE REALISTIC THIS WAY"

Hopefully, one day the bubble will pop and the open world meme will die.

You literally didn't read the post I linked to. I don't want fast travel as a crutch for boring map design, I want a well designed, compact map with unique things everywhere.

Holy shit, you didn't read it, missed the point completely, then went the most cliche ad hominen route outside of "git gud"

>. So many games make fast travel quick and convenient through a menu, without the need to contextualize every fucking step.
But I like it that way.

>iimplying ALBW didn't have overworld music

Huge maps with nothing in it is a joke, unless the area is supposed to have nothing in it like a desert or something.

I'd take a map that's smaller then it should be but rich with content like Dragons Dogma over a huge map with fuck all in it like GTAV

look who's back!


It's in no way near to no man sky.

Also, it has far more than that.


oh fuck you're right i didn't notice that it was only 1 horseshoe.


Hey, retard. It's exactly people who like exploring good maps that are getting fucked in the ass by this open world meme bullshit.

>Non-open world
>Big maps that are well designed and full of interesting shit unique to their place

>Open world
>Endless maps that don't have areas that feel unique and are full of repetitive copy-pasted design and repetitive side quests like Bandit Camps or "Destroy Tank" or "Capture Tower" or "Race" or "Temple"





I want you to tell me how. No mans sky has those alien outposts, Skyward Sword has bokoblin outposts. The no mans sky outposts are more unique, but less frequent.

Otherwise, they both spend nearly the same amount of time walking around empty terrain collecting mushrooms and shit, it's just way more entertaining to move around in BotW

BotW's map isn't that large


>only 1 horseshoe
I didn't even see that.


Half boots + horse*shoe

Sad trombone.

Take a closer look at the picture.

would Ninja Gaiden have been a good game if you could keep as many Elixers of Spiritual Life in your inventory as you wanted?

It's bigger than WW's map and that was already 10 times as big as it needed to be.

I don't want to walk around in an amusement park where all points of interest are placed next to each other.

I want to have to walk 20 minutes through empty nothing, and I want to get lost. I want to work hard for my fun.

Dogs are 10 each

Rawhide chews are 2 per chew

Squeaky boots are 1 per boot


It's not boring. It's an aspect of the game you simply don't enjoy, unlike a lot of people. You are like open world player bitching that a linear FPS isn't open world. Just don't play it. It's not bad map design, you just don't like the "sub-genre" or whatever.

>hating on new zelda for huge open spaces

bitch, if you talk shit about wind waker one more time ill find you and give you the biggest wedgie youve ever fucking had in your life

>hurrrr durrr it takes 10 minutes to sail through water textures to find anywhere unique

this is how retarded you sound

Then that's what stupid mindless shit like just cause and MMOs are for. Stay the fuck away from Zelda, the series was built on manageable maps with very little copy paste

Nintendo just can't win with you guys

o shit I didn't notice they were only halves

>I want to have to walk 20 minutes through empty nothing, and I want to get lost. I want to work hard for my fun.


OP I think the real question is why do you need something happening in the game every 5 seconds? Why can't you have a fun time exploring and getting lost in the game world? Maybe you should just go back to COD or your online MOBA's if you need shit constantly being thrown at you.

I meant with the angle that they're taking this time.
I'll be pretty annoyed if they don't have tracks in the dungeons either.

>It's not bad map design

It certainly isn't good map design. A good 2d platformer things hard about every facet of the map design, how can they place these platforms to educate players on game mechanics, or space out obstacles exactly where they need to be to maximize fun and reduce frustration. That's good well thought out map design.

How much thought do you think goes into "how big should we make this mountain!" "oh let's put this hill next to that hill" "I'll just paste a river there"

Like I said at the beginning, you can't have good map design for a map that big. It's going to be 80% copy paste for terrain

I guarantee you that no developer (except maybe Toady) caters to my tastes at all.


>hurrrr durrr it takes 10 minutes to sail through water textures to find anywhere unique

This is literally true though, the map was easily 10 times bigger than it needed to be and would have benefitted from shrinking the whole map down, or placing the interesting points closer together

What are your opinions on that DS game that is both 2D and 3D ?

Open world games are inherently superior.

It's far easier to fuck up open world design though, as seen in MGSV for example.

Because retards like it. Every single game with huge maps is praised for it. All of them have nothing to do besides walking around, but people only seem to notice this after playing the game for several hours. Even on Cred Forums when the map doesn't look as big as possible people start to ridicularize the game.
Now, to be honest, BotW looks ok, whatever there is to do seems fun, but I'm sure it would be more fun on a smaller map.

Because they are literally wasting my time. I can play Link to the past for an hour and be satisfied and surprised and excited to find lots of secrets, or I can play WW for 2 hours and have found ONE small island with 20 ruppees on it.

I'm obviously exaggerating WW, but you get my point.

It's called "down time."
Not every moment has to be spent platforming, fighting an enemy, or looking at some pretty landmark. There are times when you just want the feeling of isolation in the endless expanse, where you can just ride on into the horizon, reflecting on what you've done so far and what you'll do next.

>It is not even remotely plausible to populate a map as large as this map with a good amount of unique content. The map is just too fucking big, it would take an army of developers a decade to keep that map interesting/unique/full.

Why do you think it's been delayed so much? That said, I'm not for or against open world, because like all things in gaming it entirely depends on the execution. THAT ALSO said, Modern Nintendo is lazy as fuck, devoid of originality, and entirely dead to creativity that doesn't stem from some faggot gimmick only a handful of casuals give a fuck about so most likely you're right.


You guys do realize that the secrets get less unique the bigger the maps get? You find a secret cave in LttP and you get a new heart container, or a new equippable item or something. You find a secret in wind waker or breath of the wild and all you find is 20 ruppees, or some shitty crafting material.

It's not just about map size preferrence, it's also about payoff for the exploration is rewarded better with smaller maps, because you can't come up with enough unique content for those gigantic ass games

no him but i liked the sailing in WW. It added atmosphere to the world and it was practically automatic - just set your boat in the direction and let the wind take you. This made it mostly relaxing so it wasn't a drain. Compare to flying the bird in Skyward Sword where you constantly have to input button and direction commands to replace the lost height of your gliding bird as well as get to your destination faster while being /just/ as empty as the sea of WW. SS did it wrong but WW did it right.

Sense of scale is what set WW apart, even if 99% of the map was just water

I felt like I was actually in a world rather than in a set piece where there's a village, house, dungeon, cave or other point of interest every 10 feet

Small world maps can have bland set design too, with plenty of copy/pasted assets. It's all a matter of budget. How many people and how long have they been working on this? BotW has been in development for a long time. There's every reason to believe it will have a fully featured overworld, even if there's slightly more space between points of interest. That's not a problem

>devoid of originality and creativity
What is Splatoon

The reverse could also be said. When every secret is unique, none of them are. But when many of the secrets are just ordinary, the secrets that are actually special are that much more impactful.

That's a ridiculously stupid argument. If you're bumping into shit every few feet, a "secret" doesn't feel very secret at all

>Why do you think it's been delayed so much
At least this last time was so it can be sold to boost sales on the NX. There's no way that happened to coincide.

And it isn't like delays helped fill out Skyward Sword's rocks in the sky map.

Gimmicks. I covered that because I knew you'd cite that. Some people (like me) do not like gimmicks no matter if its executed well. Even if you can turn gyros off, you're still forced to use the ungodly big gamepad for online multi. It's Nintendo forcing shitty gimmicks at its finest.

Stop being extremists on the other end of the argument, you fucking shitlords. "if you can't deal with 5 minutes of mindless wandering, you must have ADHD. you should just play cawaddoody if you constantly need stuff thrown at you"

It's not down time when 70% of you play session is WALKING and if you're lucky you'll find a shrine. It's fucking a waste of time.

There's a balance for down time and open world games since the last gen of consoles has gone way fucking overboard. LttP had plenty of downtime, it had enemies, and NPCs to talk to, and different map styles. Nobody ever EVER complained that LttP was way too fast paced, and only ADHD faggots would like LttP because there's just not enough downtime

What is cherrypicking


not them, but leave. Out, GET OUT! Back to your tumblr hole.

While technically empty because it's a big sea, WW did have something to do on each square of the map, from having an island, battle outposts, mini boss battle, a hidden chart or a treasure chest to recover with a chart

>every few feet
Stop strawmanning retards, that's literally what no one is asking for.

So new, original takes on a genre are just gimmicks? I don't give a shit about the option of gyro, or the fucking controller used to play a game. We're talking about the game itself. Moron

What is handwaving a counterexample?

>literally a square of terrain with a dot of terrain in the middle
>50 ruppees
>that totally justifies 2 square miles of empty ocean
>they repeated that design like 6 times

Literally no better than no man's skyfags

This. Sense of scale creates immersion. Fuck off OP.

When was the last yome you felt like you were actually discovering something hidden in a world in a Zelda game? I havent in ages, and I think a larger play area would help that

Reminder that Baldurs gate was open world.

Alright, I'm curious. How densely populated with "unique stuff" would BotW's map have to be in order for you to say it's equivalent to the original's "at least 1 secret per screen" (which is technically wrong, but there are few enough exceptions to let it slide as a general statement)

As much as I love Wind Waker, even in the WiiU re-release it just doesn't really feel like a finished game. It badly needed a few more dungeons.

When I played LttP. It's incredibly satisfying when you see something suspicious and then figure it out, or when they create a secret that they don't even leave clues to but you stumble upon it and you feel so satisfied and you feel like you are the only person in the world to have discovered that secret.

You can't have secrets hidden that well any more in giant ass maps, because then literally no one would find them. Giant open world games barely even have secrets any more, they are more rewards for bokoblin outposts.

I assure you, you won't discover any true secrets in BotW, because they will all have giant "red arrows" pointed to them in the form of bokoblin outposts, or bodies of water that are basically telling you to use your magnesis

Because 3D Zeldas always had some vast fields for comfiness and atmosphere.

See Ocarina of Time, there was literally nothing on Hyrule Field, yet the game is considered the best game ever made. Same with Wind Waker, the most empty shit ever, yet loved and praised.

The word is atmosphere.

Also, the Zelda U world seems to be CRAZY interactive, so I wouldn't really worry. There are many open world games to worry about, not this one, though.

No, it's the last thing it needed. But I won't call you a retard on this one since even Kamiya got it wrong.

More dungeons wouldn't fill its overworld.

It needed more and bigger islands, sidequests, NPCs, mini dungeons. Or simply more stuff on the sea itself like different big creatures and disasters instead of just that storm and the kraken.

> literally no one would find them

You realise you're talking to Nintendofags right?

It needed a better ship.

I don't know, I'm trying to think of other open world games to compare it to. Honestly I might be satisfied with BotW's map density if the bokoblin outposts were actually unique. Once I've killed one small group of bokoblins for a crafting material piece, i've seen them all, and seeing them placed 1000 more times on the map is just filler for me.

If each one of those were some kind of unique landmark or unique item, or had their own unique enemies, I'd be satisfied with that desnsity, but like I said at the beginning, there isn't enough manpower to design a map that big with that much unique stuff.

I also think Skyrim is adequately populated, but what they populated the map with was extremely generic copy paste dwarven ruins and generic randomly generated loot. If they could make skyrim's level of population, but wiht actually unique temples, I'd be satisfied.

This is what worries me about the shrines, I'm sure they are all going to feel samey and eventually I'll just stop bothering with them and they'll feel like another chore, just like skyrim's temples did

Also how you rarely get attacked by more than 3 enemies at once.

It's atmosphere. It feels more immersive knowing there is actual distance and natural terrain between you and your last notable event. Look at Shadow of the Colossus. People enjoyed riding through all that terrain. The game wouldn't have been nearly as popular if all the colossi were just a hop, skip, and a jump away from the main temple.

the game wouldn't have been nearly as popular if it weren't for dynamic animations either and they have yet to show Epona having as dramatic and dynamic animations as Agro.

When the world is small, ot's not about finding anything by being curious, it's about combing through the area and being mildly observant.

I love LttP. My favorite Zelda game. But even in that, the secrets did not feel like I was actually dicovering anything. It felt like I was coming across something an item a dev wanted me to find

The original Zelda had secrets. Some were a bit obnoxiously hidden, but the mice part was that not everyone would find them. And this Zelda is going back to that. They even sad the original was a huge inspiration

>huge red arrows
Lol, nu-nintendo, right? Is that why things like the hidden 50 rupee in the demo, the steppe talus, the fire rod, the gear behind waterfall are all optional and were missed by a bunch of players?

I'm not sure about this but If you can only teleport to the towers of each region.... then it will not be as flexible, and would add a sense of adventure aswell, so you cant travel anywhere

dumb frog poster

they'd said at e3 that there will be over 100 of these shrines so no it'll most definitely be a headache to access the teleport menu and they're probably 5 minutes away from each other. There are two points alone just in the demo area.

The fire rod is hidden inside a giant fucking skull, obviously anyone that came across it would go inside and find it. That's not a secret, that's just something you might miss. The skull cave is the giant red arrow, because if it truly was hidden as well as the 2d games it would barely be found by anyone

Can't comment on the other things because I don't know what you're talking about

the fire rod is also a consumable breakable item and replaceable so expect a hundred fire rod locations across the whole world.

And most of them are probably going to be in skull caves. What a shitty reward for exploration, an item you can use once before breaking

My other examples still hold up, especially because you haven't even seen them in the gameplay you have watched.

>people don't find items in 2d Zeldas
You're kidding, right? No one is going to miss more then 2 heartpieces if they bother looking. Not yt mention that a shit ton of heart pieces is not variety in secrets. Making rupees and weapons scarce hives them way more to play with

I have to be frank. You are grasping at straws with that particular post. You are talking about one or two horse animations, and implying that is the only reason anyone enjoyed the terrain, simply because that's the only difference you could think of.

One more fleshed out island with a dungeon before the tower of the gods, and one more dungeon after that would have been good.

Beyond that some more variety in the platforms, subs, and enemy ships would have been nice.

It worked for Xenoblade Chronicles X. The maps were fuckhuge but absolutely fun to explore.

I'm not grasping at anything dude. Traversing SOTC would have gotten old much faster than it ever did if they were just prefabricated animations without dynamics. There's also a considerable amount of shit you can do while riding agro to enjoy which you most certainly won't be doing in zelda, like hanging off the side or standing up on the saddle.

Dynamics offer variance and if you're staring at eponas ass for all the time you're riding the horse and it's always the same galloping animation then that will get sore on the eyes fast.

Pretty sure Zelda has mounted combat. You are talking about such small shit and using it as an argument for why people don't enjoy terrain at all unless they have these very specific horse animations. People enjoy it. It adds immersion and in some cases builds suspense.

Considering how OP the fire rod has been in previous titles not necessarily. If they make it even more powerful it'll essentially become analogous to the resident evil bazooka.

It makes their trailers look good. Thus it will continue. Just like 4K 30fps rather than 1080p 60fps

>Bruh it has fast travel
Fast travel is a developer admitting the world is poorly crafted and not worth exploring, which begs the question why even bother

Baldur's Gate had fast travel, stop talking shit like a retard.

This may come as a shock to you but you live in a world 91 billion light-years wide.

The world is not the basement that your live in.

Video games are not the real world, nor should they be

I can see both sides of it. I really like how Xenoblade Chronicles handles it.

Well shit user we might as well just go back to have teleport hubs with giant fucking pictures on the walls that take you to new levels.

why don't you play the only game that does open world the right way, and the game from which Aonuma copied.

Stop playing garbage open world like fallout, and mgsv

How about a happy medium?

yeah I'l love to live on a train track with 15 min movies every 5 minutes

Some games do big continuous worlds right like Xenoblade Chronicles.


You mean something like Dark Souls?

Frankly as far as i'm concerned open world is fine so long as the Hub areas are done correctly.

>this one exception is the standard