Did this kill Final Fantasy?

What went wrong?

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>Did this kill Final Fantasy?
Not if you listen to FFXV Kun.

>What went wrong?
Final Fantasy has always focused on graphics and linear storytelling. This was just the ultimate achievement of these things. It just turns out that even Final Fantasy fans have a limit to how much hand holding they like. Basically, they tried to make a game as extreme as they could. And it turned out to be more than what the fans wanted.

Final Fantasy stopped being good the moment they tried to continue a previous story with a sequel, i'm talking about X-2.
It's just been downhill from there.

It had some of the best combat in the main series.

Overexposure. I was annoyed seeing Lightning getting whored out for stuff that didn't even have to do with the game.

I just want a cozy medieval swords-and-sorcery adventure RPG, not some near-future cyberpunk pretty-boy-band 'game' that's all style and no substance like how XV seems to be turning out.

FF13 > FF13-2 >>>>> FF13-3

Anything else is objectively wrong.

If you liked FF13-2/3 more than base FF13 you're the fucking cancer with nostalgia goggles that can't let go of MAH OLD FINAL FANTASY

Lucky you. There's dozens of other RPG series you can play. And I'm not trying to be condescending. You really should try something like Dragon Quest or Suikoden. Dragon Quest VII just came out today.

The fanbase grew up and didnt like the same cringe epic world saving stories anymore.

The last good Final Fantasy was X. After that its all shit.

>What went wrong
uh what the fuck do you think nigger lover? linear hallway fantasy featuring stoic BITCH for MC, replete with a nonsensical story and a literal nigger with a bug in his hair. the game is trash on autoplay.
what the fuck is a ffxv kun is that a new DLC?

XIV bombed so they shat out XIII games while they recouped and rebuilt.

>FFX was the last FF game I played before I grew up

>he doesn't know who FFXV Kun is

Don't worry. Wait a few posts and he'll show up.

I got bored of DQ, because it's always been the same shit in progressively more tedious gameplay.

oh it's a person. too bad. everyone on this board if anonymous kid.

>13-2's story sucks
>most of the characters suck (the game is only interesting when it's about Caius)
>gameplay is the same but the bar moves 1.15x the speed
>but people say it's better than 13 since the areas are circles instead of lines
At least the ending was a nice change of pace.

Yeah, and i miss the old features i grew up with that they just threw away, can't find any fun in the newer games.

I don't think 13 killed the series. I accuse the fan base though.

>NOT MUH *insert the FF you played back in middle/high school here*
>WHERE IS MUH REMAKE OF *insert what I just said here*

>all DQ games are the same
Oh boy, this schlock again...

considering a new one is coming out in the not too distant future I think it's a bit premature to talk about it having killed FF

what was the ending of 13-2? the game bored me to tears by the time i got to augusta tower lmao

I like dragon quest but I find Toriyama's art to be a massive turn off. He can't draw a guy who's not a Goku clone.

It's like a bad end. Serah dies and time falls apart, eventually freezing, because Noel killed Etro when he stabbed Caius in the heart (Caius was basically holding Etro's life force within him). This leads into why the world is the way it is in Lightning Returns.

>He can't draw a guy who's not a Goku clone.
You mean like this?

reads like bad fanfiction. but good riddance to sarah. maybe her shit stoic sister gets better in LR. I'll have to find it cheap to find out. does it runs better on ps3 or 360?

Her tits weren't big enough.

Or maybe this.

Or how about all his women. I think you get the point. Generalizations can always be proven wrong.

Guy, not girl, dumbass.

>What went wrong?
Hallways

Not sure but I think the PS3 version is always the superior one when it comes to the 13 trilogy. I remember reading that the gap got closer and closer with each installment but it's probably safer to go PS3.

Good thing I posted two examples of men.

Its all subjective, and we all know we like games like they were when we were young. So rather than saying whether FF13 is good or bad based on our age, i'll try to actually explain feature by feature what i don't like about it.

First, i want a cozy place i can visit to chill in my FF games, and chat with random NPCs and read their new lines of dialogue according to what's going on in the main story. Something like Balamb Garden, Any main city in FF9 or X, etc. FF13 has nothing like this. In fact, theres barely any NPC to interact with, no interesting side quests or stories to read which give "life" to the FF world, and create lore and immersion. It just feels empty and dead.

Also, i love exploring. Love visiting every house in every villiage, finding secret items/materia/GF's/Characters, and FF13 is so linear that simply removed all that. There is never anything "unique" about your playthrough. You never get to finish the game only to find out you missed the Shiva Materia in the ship or you never unlocked Diablo or had a sick black mage + knight combo on your main party but want to try a summoner main party this run. Not in this game, every party composition, every item. everything is always the same at any given moment in FF13 for any player, at least until chapter 13 or whatever chapter it was that actually allowed you to explore and grind and feel like an actual FF game. You never get to play a unique style, exploit some system and prioritize some party style over another. You literally just max everything as you move along the story.

cont'd

Took the linear world and turned it into long hallways. Additionally, some idiot at Square Enix convinced the powers that be that a traditional turn-based RPG won't sell. So they "innovated" themselves into a pile of shit.

The battle system is just shit, doesn't even let you decide anything. I mean sure, you can manually chose your attacks and shit but that's just retarded because auto attack already picks the best everyhting for you, so every new skill unlocked just feels "meh", you never get to "cast" a new spell or anything. All you do throughout the whole game, is swich in and out of the party 6 different "classes" and choose auto attack, according to what the enemy battle dictates. Its almost like a rythm game more than anything else. Enemies are such bullet sponges that every singular attack just loses impact, and it becomes tedious. Where is my turn based combat, where i actually get to choose between healing this turn, or going for the kill, or buffs and debuffs? Where do i actually get to decide anything? When can i cast piro++ on a plant enemy and feel like im sun tzu for 5 seconds, when can i put my autism to good use to figure out the best party composition to beat the shit out of this particular boss, and chose which abilities to prioritize learning and which to skip? Where is my sick auto reflect ring that i have to do the longest sidequest ever to get? Its just seems super empty and bland.

And i won't even talk about the main characters because i just hate them all and they all seem super bland and uninteresting and unlikeable and the story is complete shit but since this is the most subjective topic i'll just skip this point entirely.

Also, fuck removing the world map. That's the biggest "fuck you" to the older fan base. Imagine playing a pokemon game, but the game is just one straight hallway of fight after fight, without even giving you the ilusion of freedom or creativity with you party composition or anything. Thats how FF13 feels for an old timer.

>Additionally, some idiot at Square Enix convinced the powers that be that a traditional turn-based RPG won't sell. So they "innovated" themselves into a pile of shit.
Ever since Wada left, the new CEO has done a total 180 on that. He's actively trying to get traditional JRPGs made and stuff like Dragon Quest released. Will this mean all ARPG/linear games go away? Well obviously not since we still have Star Ocean, Kingdom Hearts and FFXV. But in the case of Final Fantasy, its kind of plagued by one game having an 8 year development time. So long that it was started in the old CEOs tenure. But you never know. FFXVI may be more traditional. Especially if FFXV doesn't sell the FFVII levels it needs to.

Is this real?

>Star Ocean
last two installments have been fucking garbage. might as well bury it.

>Kingdom Hearts
true that

>FFXV
the technical limitations of this game will ruin whatever potential it may have had.

I liked XIII fine, I had the same issues as everyone else with how linear it was but I thought the battle system was fun. XII was the only Final Fantasy I thought was trash.

Just a reminder, in it's day everyone bitched about how VIII removed levels and magic drawing and that X had a trash battle system for abandoning the traditional system.

Those are all of the maps for the first half of the game.

I didn't like that the battle system is basically mobile phone auto battle shit where you just change jobs.

>last two installments have been fucking garbage.
You mean 3.

And finally, point number one is
THIS

Tabata happen.

Literally name one good game this useless sack of shit did without the dream team FFVII had.

Toriyama you mean.

>he thinks till the end of time was bad
oh wow

How the fuck can anyone defend this?

This is just like FFX though. It all went wrong since X

everything after the twist was extremely dull. that's half the game.

The MCs are on a strict time limit to do something and almost everyone else in the world is out to get them. I could almost see that explaining the lack of NPCs but it's not like everyone on Cocoon knows what they look like, or even that they're lC'ies.

FFXII was the last good FF, and even with its flaws it still manages to be a better game than the XIII trilogy.

some people like onrails games.

Type 0

XII is god awful trash, vaan is for fujoshits, etc

I mean gameplay wise, i can't understand how people can be ok with this.

nothing
should have been a standalone title with no sequels though

This is what "killed" Final Fantasy.

PROVE ME WRONG

Final Fantasy X came out alongside it and was the second best selling game in the series.

If we measure the quality of games are on sales alone here is something to think about:

When it came out FFVIII sold more than FFVII so I guess that makes it a better game.

A couple of things;

Final Fantasy is Sakaguchi + Amano + Uematsu. 13 had none of those guys.

Second, I don't think it is cost effective to make gigantic, free roaming JRPGs anymore. Today's modern big RPG is the Fallout style of, "Do fetch quests for these 100 people and there is a main quest line you can do if you want." Today's big JRPGs are more linear affairs like 13 and the episodic, action based, likely linear FFVII remake.

The old style of JRPG is relegated to handhelds where they don't have to look as good and are cheaper to do.

FFVIII sold about 600k less than FFVII.

ur wrog

Ff13 was fine. Great battle system.

I actually don't mind the battle system but the difficulty curve is bad. You can autobattle through the first several hours of the game. Major problem.

>dat feel when trying to play through FF13 for year and a half
Jesus.

I won't defend the majority of the decisions the game made, as you said the pacing was bad. But to say the battle system isn't one of the best in the series is crazy to me.

I actually disagree. Stagger system was great, but all it lead to in practice was constantly rotating your Paradigms.

13 hit at a really great time for me. I was really into doing drugs and going to colorful raves with women dressed in impractical clothes with rhythmic, dreamlike, fantasy music.

13 is kinda like that.

Ok, and nearly every other FF comes down to spamming your highest damage attack. I'm not saying FF13 combat is genius, but it doesn't have much competition in its own series.

Let's play FF10 for a moment. Quick hit quick hit quick hit quick hit quick hit etc.

Kill? No, it sold 7 million copies.

The issue was we had to wait almost a decade for the next non-mmo FF.

Point is constantly rotating them is annoying as fuck. You're still just figuring which attack works the best and then spamming that, there's simply an additional step there.

Bitch had no ass

It pretty much was bad fanfiction.

The true ending is literally caius on a throne doing the light yagami JUST AS PLANNED meme. No joke.

It's also one of like 3 games in the series where status buffs and debuffs are useful.

You mean did this *save* Final Fantasy and the answer is obviously yes

>Bitch had no ass

Who cares? I love skinny girls

Story of pretty much entire trilogy is "how the fuck did anyone approve this?" kind of quality. It's a massive step down to what the series has enjoyed up to that point.

Lightning's ass is petite

so do a lot in the series.

Namely the main females suffer this.

>"Do fetch quests for these 100 people and there is a main quest line you can do if you want."

>likely linear FFVII remake.

VII itself was pretty damn linear in reality.

As you got more vehicles, you could go back to earlier points in the game. Once you get the Highwind, you can go anywhere. There are many optional (and substantial) side quests. Once Meteor is summoned, many NPCs around the world get brand new dialogue.

The world felt more alive. FF13 by comparison, is a st straight line.

FF is bad since VIII and shit since XII.

This game saved final fantasy. It allowed the company to recoup their losses from 14 and salvage it into ARR. It did great in sales and okay in reviews. It is an overall good game with perhaps the most complex cast and theme in the series. The game's biggest flaw was that it was a slave to the story.

I didn't kill FF anymore than X did. The series has always been experimental and more style than substance. It has it's audience, stop being so upset that it's more popular than your favorite series

XII killed Final Fantasy.

That's a funny word for non-existent.

Let's see.

>Concave ass
Lightning
>No ass
Princess Sara (III, she's a kid), Rosa, Rinoa, Yuna, Serah
>Ass
Aerith, Dagger, Ashe
>Hard to say, but I think not.
Princess Sarah (I), Maria
>Hard to say, but I think yes.
Lenna, Terra

It's not quite so one sided. Even then Lightning is a special case.

A lot of maps in the old games are pretty linear as well. FF has never really been about the open world aspect of it. Even the overworld is just a glorified hub.

I liked this game, mostly the environment ,enough to obtain platinum, but man, when neptunia has better combat you know its bad

Whatever.

Junction system was great.

Junction system was trash like the game as a whole.

Not kill it but beat the shit out of it and leave it in a fucking coma.
What wentry wrong was focusing on character development and a shitty battle system.
Doing so that allowed them to focus on graphics that you couldn't even interact with.
Then there was the linarity of the the game. No exploration and little to no npc interaction and discoveries of weapons and armor.
If you want to make a movie, make a movie not a video game movie.

Combat was pretty dope though. It was interesting.

only at the end of the game during bossfights

I disagree, since the combat felt very lacking in player and character connection.

Nothing, It was a decent game.

You don't seem to understand what is a bad game.

>implying pressing "attack" is interactive

I didn0t the game but at midgame there were some pretty interesting things going on. It teried to do something different.

No he does, the game took out nearly everything that makes an rpg an rpg. Now take zenoblade for instance, there's a modern rpg that did both story and rpg elements and character interactions. Not only that rewarded the player for character interactions with character to character star boosts.
The only problem with Xenoblade was it felt too MMO.

>implying that's all you did in previous games.
That's at least more than what 13 did, watch them fight, switch their style of fighting but please let the somputer do the rest of the work it's too much for the new final fantasy players.

Computer*

No it didn't. It was actually designed very similar to that of FF10 gameplay wise. The combat was very well done and even went as far as being practically flawless mechanically.

Characters were mostly good while the story was okay.

FF13 is a decent game overall and that's the reason why it was so successful.

What killed Final Fantasy was Square Enix becoming more interested in making stylish cutscenes than making RPGs. XIII was the tipping point where they went way the fuck overboard with it to the detriment of everything else.

If it was a detriment, then how come the game was sucessful both critically, financially and popularity?

Just saying, detrimenting means that it would turn against the game itself. Like how RE5 and RE6 detrimented themselves with their action combat and gameplay.

It was successful at getting a record breaking amount of returns.
Design of 13 and 10 were made by the same designer, and by 13 shit went off the rails to a point you couldn't tell the difference from a monsters ass from head.
Characters were shallow and only teens would enjoy then because they were so narsacistic it would make trump roll his eyes.
The game was something people were hoping would be great and turned out it was worse than 10.

FFXIII is like playing a commanding officer instead of the soldier itself, and at that it was very interesting. Everything was set on paradigms anyway, it's not like you have direct control of Lighting most of the time.

Was it perfect? No, it can be improved a ton, especially in enemy design and maybe controlling your placement, but it was something fresh, a far cry from what RPGs do.

X and VII have, comparetevely, terrible combat which is usually just spamming "attack", maybe an item or the appropiate spell for the situation. It's not very interactive at all.

XIII also (eventually) had a much more refined and interesting scaling system, much better than VII's or X's.

Because people are fucking stupid and should never be allowed to have a say in anything. That's the honest truth.

Wow so much wrong with that post.
What you just said was the opposite of what 13 actually did.
It's system wasn't even refined because it didn't grow beyond what was already put in front of a you at the start of the game.

Did you even play the game or just watch some one else play it for you, because that's actually what 13 is about, some one else playing for you while you watched and did nothing.
You seem to have no idea what scaling means if you use 13 as an example. 13 was the example of watered down combat. Using 10 and 7 at least you have choices besides attack and if your lead character died you could bring them back instead of game over. You had less control in 13 than any other final fantasy

Because the media and the common schmuck fall for hype like a bunch of dumbass lemmings.

Once the honeymoon phase was over, people found the whole thing rather lacking.

Oh really? Because when FF13-2 came out, the game sold 3.1 million copies. Last game to do that was FF10-2. Remember how that went down with FF10?

Hell, FF13-2 outsold the entirety of the FF7 Compilations.

These designs are quite common in DB actually
I doubt this is his actual artstyle

You are comparing sales 20 years apart, a lot of games sold more than 7 by then.

But FF7 Compilations came out in 2005-2008.

FF10-2 came out in 2003.

FF13-2 came out in 2011.

Wow another wrong statement.

It did have a massive variation of terrains though. Actually I only got bored when I finally arrived at Gran Pulse

>less than half of the game it was a sequel to

I wonder why that could have been.

>FF7 Compilations

Those were shit too. The only good piece of media to come out of FF7 was FF7 itself.

>It's system wasn't even refined because it didn't grow beyond what was already put in front of a you at the start of the game.

Cannot be more wrong. Paradigms aren't even a thing at the start of the game, neither are summons, and eventually everyone can choose any class. Even as you progress, characters learn new abilities. 13 can be improved in many ways but its core mechanics are pretty solid.

>13 was the example of watered down combat.

This cannot be true at all because 13 took a lateral step instead of a backwards or forwards step. The combat in 13 is just too different from other FFs to compare it.

I think Lighting dying = game over is bullshit but that doesn't mean that the core mechanics and ideas are fundamentally wrong.

>You had less control in 13 than any other final fantasy

I will never understand how people find VII and X to have good combat. Traditional JRPGs usually have shit combat.

But the -2 games both sold the same amount. FF10 is considered the fan favorite in Japan. FF13 was considered quite good by Japanese people and positively received by westerners.

>I will never understand how people find VII and X to have good combat. Traditional JRPGs usually have shit combat.

When combat from a 1997 JRPG feels more involved than one from 2009 there's reason for concern.

Oh compilations I missed that, but what's your point, "additional content the game" never sell as well as the originals. And again let's not forget the returns of those ff 13 games.
The terains were all visual and barley active and all one long hall way, that was the problem.

FFVIII killed the series.

Sequels don't usually lose over 50% of their original audience.

>best selling
Completely irrelevant. Do you think sales = quality?

>New iteration of a series coming out
>Cred Forums suddenly claims the previous was good after shitting all over it at release

Like clockwork

What returns? Returns are only a fraction of what is sold.

But the -2 games aren't sequels, they are subseries.

FF15 is more of a sequel as it's a numbered entry to the Final Fantasy franchise

Literally ignoring everything said in the post and just being contrarian.

Best FF is coming back next year.

Final Fantasy VII Remake is releasing next year? Do you have a source for that?

Paradrims only gave your characters buff and even then, the leveling was so watered down to hp str mag. And even then it was just a straight branch frim the next choice there was little branching off.
The core mechanics were awful, besides characters in every final fantasy learned new abilities along the way on in 13 you didn't interact with them.
>lateral step
You mean a step that ment fucking nothing it's just as bad as taking a step backward.

>I will never understand how people find VII and X to have good combat.

That's because we didn't start on baby's first final fantasy 13.

Here: youtube.com/watch?v=D2-bWotLKqo

>But the -2 games aren't sequels, they are subseries.

They are literally sequels to the game that doesn't have the "-2" in it. "Subseries" has basically become code for "fuck it, we want to make the sales sound less disappointing".

>job system
>doesn't allow job switching

I don't get the hype about this version.

I just really like the terrain variations.That was one of the things that kept me going, and the character (eventhough they were really hard to accept them at first). I really hate it when JRPGs do the thing with the MC claiming that he's a hero and shits. One of the thing I really hated about Snow and Zack in CC

None of numbered final fantasy are sequels of each other, they are all seprate stories and universes.

>tfw you will never play as a judge magister.

The terrain would be great if I could explore it. But it was all the straight line of this and that.
I'm the opposite with that, I hate brooding characters that blame all their woes on the guy who tries to stay positive. I was never an emo teenager.

Why is XV delayed again? I should be playing it in 15 days.

Marketing bullshit, it's always marketing fucking up thinges up.

I started with FF1, FFX was garbage and I would rather play FF13 again than play FFX again.

While I'm at it FF6 was a big step down mechanically from FF5 and is the buggiest shit of all time. Might be the most overrated game in the series.

>Paradrims only gave your characters buff and even the
Is this a troll post?

>the leveling was so watered down to hp str mag.
Yup, troll post.

>have to choose between three main classes and two seconday classes
>literally more complex than VII's linear level ups and similar to X's grid grind
>this is somehow watered down

>That's because we didn't start on baby's first final fantasy 13.

I didn't like 13 that much. Plot was almost non-existent and character development was too thin and too far apart for me to care, game didn't involve actual thinking several hours in, much of the combat is trivial (as with many JRPGs) because you can just spam auto-battle with a Commando and two Ravagers and it was exceedenly linear. But since I'm not a simple-minded faggot like you are I am capable of seeing were FF13 hit the mark, and it did create an interesting battle system that is potentially much better than the watered-down "attack" spam and "hope he hits my high HP character" that is plagued in JRPGs.

>in 13 you didn't interact with them.

Just stop man, you're making a fool of yourself.

>The terrain would be great if I could explore it
Agree. But I can accept it for what it is. I can't stop moving around the camera, just to see how pretty everything is. It'll be EXCEPTIONAL if all of those are explorable. I do share your pain, user.
>I hate brooding characters that blame all their woes on the guy who tries to stay positive
Who the hell likes this archetype?

I liked it. It was better than X or VIII and XII for me
I don't understand all the hate for the game
People are saying it was linear, and yet they all like X like it was the best. X was full of corridors maps too
Other FF were also linear as fuck. when the game tell you to go to X and you go to Y where you have nothing to do it's not free, it's still linear
The story like all other FF was shit
The combat system was good once you understand it well
The OST was pretty good.
Anyway, FF was "kill" after IX

PS4 Pro. And some polishing work.

I frankly don't believe you, because there is no way in hell some one like you started at 1 and say there is less interactivity in the other final fantasys than 13. Especially in 1 where you choose their classes and names and spells. In fact I'm sure you are a liar. Though I have no physical proof other than the evidence of what you've been saying, I am still certain you are full of it.
Of course this is Cred Forums so speaking the truth is as easy as telling a lie.

That was another poster, I have only played VII, X and XIII, unless you count Revenang Wings and that shitty Sim game for the WiiWare. I have yet to like any FF (I don't remember RW).

>Simple minded faggot like you
Projecting much?
Please the leveling system was nothing special in fact it was like X system but simplified.
Of course you would only press attack since that's your only capacity when you are playing any other final fantasy.
The only fool here is the man who is trying so hard to convince the majority of this thread 13 was a good game and getting so butt hurt overy it at the same time son.

Nah, I'm 27 and I owned an NES as a kid. FF1 was my first and FF13 has a fun battle system.

I wasn't the other guy you were talking with, I just butted in to say that FFX is garbage. You also have a weird definition of interactive.

Optimal play in 13 is buffing debuffing applying some status effects, paradigm shifting for free turns and maybe using sentinel.

Optimal play in FF10 is using quick hit and limit breaks. If you have save cursor position on you can quite literally just mash your way through the majority of fights.

Alot more people than you think, the emo brooding charactes have been overdone to where it's the vast majority of the psyche of final fantasy characters. Brooding characters suck ass.

I can agree 10 is garbage, but 13 was worse.

I disagree. At least I found the battle system and music in 13 decent. I didn't like anything about 10.

I started at 1 and 13 is in my top 5 final fantasies. I don't think there are any that are bad. They all very from good to exceptional, but 13 was great. It offered so much beneath the surface than what you see. Other games are deep, yeah, but you can quickly see the bottom, whereas 13 just keep going and going.

10 had a better grasp of exsposition, the characters were awful but the battle system was better and you could go through your whole party instead of having to switch oUT side of battle, and having direct control of your summons was pretty cool.

You mind screen capturing yourself to show me you aren't same fagging here?

Which two posts

Here just a few for example

10 was in love with the whole panning camera with voiceover schtick that I think is pretty weak as far as exposition goes. Agree to disagree on the battle system I guess.

That dude types nothing like me, but no I can't be bothered to screen cap. I don't really care if you don't believe me.

1st and third is me, again I can't be bothered. Believe me, or don't.

>I don't really care if you don't believe me.
Yeah I figured as much.

>The only fool here is the man who is trying so hard to convince the majority of this thread 13 was a good game and getting so butt hurt overy it at the same time son.

Literally just said that I didn't like XIII. Learn to read dude. Gotta agree wih

You mean yourself?

No. It was one of the best selling games in the franchise.

It also wasn't that bad either. Just kinda rushed towards the end.

Same fagging still user, please prove me wrong.

I thought 10's character was a highlight. If I had to compare the two, I'd say
FFX
Pros
>memorable cast with distinct story and combat roles
>great story that was easy to get into
>simple and intuitive battle system
>great music
>loads of end-game contents
Cons
>combat never really evolves
>lore is murky
>end-game sees some character become useless

FF13
Pros
>realistic characters with flaws and layers
>great lore, probably one of the best in the series
>great central theme
>deceptionally simple combat system that can be bruteforced or played with finesse
>good voice acting
Cons
>not much side content
>in media res may turn some off
>it can be hard to learn what the game wants you to know, hindering your progress later on

Both great game.

Recently played through 13 and got to say it's alright. A lot of the complaints I heard like
>combat is shit because auto battle
I thought was funny because not only is it completely optional the game would punish you for using auto battle by giving you shit commands like: random mag atk strings that were slow, would only put healing that the game thought you needed and wouldn't revive teammates, didn't put more than one buff on the queue, and wouldn't put debuffs on the queue to refresh them before the effects faded. Honestly the combat would have been god tier if it had gambits, classes had more passive to compliment each other instead themselves, and make the spell effects more pronounced. Linear doesn't make a game bad but everyone is right about the god awful pacing. Overall 7/why the fuck didnt hope get Alexander during his confrontation with Snow.

Keep faking it samefag

Okay? I did ask which two posts you wanted me to cap.

In my experience Auto-battle controlled fine and many times it would just be more convenient to use it. Thus the actual strategy involves using the paradigms skilfully.

>>memorable cast with distinct story and combat roles
>>great story that was easy to get into
Funny, I couldn't get into X's story. I got into the lighting part where Rikku was scared and dropped it. I wasn't enjoying the game at all.

Hope was still pushing his issues on to snow, he needed to actually stand for something than just revenge against the guy who gave my mom a gun to survive.

Supposedly they only come to you during your lowest point or some shit like that.

Right here bro laid some out for you.

I just thought it was very well done how they had a reason to explain to the players what this place was and how things worked. Also thought the story was very well paced, keeping your interests long enough with twists to form three distinct arcs.

See, only one me.

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Cute you know what I ment

What more do you want, user? I'm on mobile. I can screen shot two posts unless they're next to each other and I don't want to capture two posts and then open them both just to edit them next to each other to prove a point. It's not like we're changing each other's minds here. We're just all here to shitpost about whether or not we like 13 because it's a good thread starter.

Go to Click and screen capture that
That's what I wanted.

Thank you user you all these samefags can look alike.

You know all these same fags look alike.*

Okay? None of those are me.

I agree auto battle was fine for standard enemies but for bosses and the tougher enemies it would fuck you over with bad commands. Hopefully square will do a revamped paradigm system.

I don't know it just felt weird. Having him him fight along side Snow would have been a nice conclusion to their arc and would have made a great parallel to the eidolin fight with Lightning.

Thankyou Umm where do you live at least what state?

Or country

OP, put down the memorberries... I'mma let you in on a secret.

Final Fantasy was never that good.

It started out as a very basic turn-based D&D knockoff as if made by a couple of highschool kids.

It experimented with weird stat based mechanics in FF2, realized that was shit... went back to being all about the D&D classes.

Than after 4 they thought "deep plot" equated to "brooding protagonist" and it's gone down fucking hill ever sense. With each protagonist more angst and tranny than the last.

Also more and more minigames for some stupid fucking reason.

If you were to go back and play those primitive FFs you'd find a very lackluster game with infuriating qualities all it's own. It's just how shitty a game would be was fairly limited where as designer's have a ceiling high budget now to make things annoying knowing that the fanbase will call it a 10/10 masterpiece regardless.

they pushed it too hard

>Final Fantasy has always focused on graphics and linear storytelling.
Early final fantasy actually wanted to be DnD-like rpgs

Rename this to
Howtophotoshoptheyououtofyou.jpg

Why FFXIII got 3 games? How did he do it?

Not trying to defend FFXIII here, but you are completely wrong about there being no party composition or anything. You get to mix up classes and characters who each have different strengths and weaknesses and excel in specific classes. Yet this shit keeps being praised in FFV threads. Let's at least try to be objective.

Brand name and Good graphics is enough to sell games.

Nice quads, but I think V is praised because it's more specific in classes, like you got blue mage or white mage or time mage or black mage.
Where as 13 it's damage dealer, magic damage dealer, healer, and dot magic dealer.

Nice strawman. It clearly did not kill Final Fantasy if it had gigantic commercial success afterwards.

13 series was very successful, 14 was very successful after it was relaunched

So no. The only issues FF faces right now is the next main game upcoming is one that's been through long running development hell.

>what went wrong

It was on rails until 90% into the game, but tried to give the illusion that it wasn't.(the single line levelling system you had to progress manually, for example).

And they fucked all the characters. Everyone was depressed as fuck and you can't have that when the game is completely voiced. 10 had Wakka, Tidus and Rikku for the joyous moments. 13 had vanille, kinda.

And the terms for shit were pretty confusing. L'Cie, Fal'cie, Cie'th. And then you had some from pulse and some from cocoon.

Then 13-2 came along and fucked everything with Serah as the main character and time travel.

Then LR was a game with time contraints which is an absurd concept as you are always feeling rushed and can't stop to smell the roses. And they made it a dressup game for weaboos.

The fanbase went wrong

Looks like we've got some Patrician taste up in this bitch

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Them making up words and terrible world building was rediculous in this game. The basic plot was simple it was the other crap they were talking about that didn't make sense. Had to do your homework to under stand what the fuck they were talking about.

How stupid do you have to be to not be able to learn a few new words?

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The series was mediocre but still made alot of cash from waifufags. So no.

I'd rather jerk it to transvestite porn. Lightning's personality is so dull it seeps into her beauty. If she was a likeable character, I'd be all over it.

>New words
They weren't even words you mongoloid.

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They were new words for you to remember
You couldn't do it and now you're whining online that you can't do what toddlers can

They weren't even words nor did they ex plain what they ment in game, you have to be a special type of retard to swallow that shit.

Well it killed Final Fantasy, then it beat it really fucking hard with a baseball bat.

@352084714
Yes they are words, and yes they explain what they mean
I'm not giving you reply for such terrible bait

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>@

Fucking die

No they are not, giving then a made up sounding name and saying it's now a word with out discribing any attributes is not a word, you might as well call baby gibberish words.
Yes you had to go into the data file to know what the fuck they are talking about. You just passively eat shit so much you hardly use commonsense to notice. They only time they used exsposition to explain what some thing was, was the crystal zombies. After that everything was a fal'cie. That bug thung a fal'cie, that priest a fal'cie, that giant lizard a fal'cie, that overly designed abomination a fal'cie. That's all they said, nevery did they explain what they actually were or did until you went into the encyclopedia.

Pro tip: it's a good idea to read whole posts before replying to them.

Protip: it's a good idea to be over 18 to post here

It's literally how languages are born, you put together a bunch of sounds to form words
All words come from ancient gibberish our ancestors used ages ago and were then accepted as having a meaning
And Sazh and Vanille literally drill what the words mean into your brain

No they didn't, they bitched and mouned together there was no exsposition

Not through baby gibberish describing another thing with more baby gibberish.

youtu.be/h3YtFaU2Yyk
It's like you didn't eve-, oh, of course you didn't
That's actually probably what happened
A guy decided to call trees in a way, he pointed to a tree and kept repeating the same word over and over until everyone understood
We have it easy compared to them

Yet we aren't inventing a new language are we? Your example didnt explain anything but one thing is bad the other is good or bad. There was no explination it was complete fucking gibberish. You don't throw in new fake words to derive to other fake words or say a name of something and not fully explain what it was, you don't say pulse and oh I have a pulse, wait pulse is a place? Wait it's nOw a planet. This is fanfiction tier writing. There is no real explination because you have to go to the data log to know what the fuck they are talking about, I said the basic plot was simple, but they try to over complicate it with made up words to make it seem cool and mysterious only to make sound fucking stupid.

Calm down, breathe, relax, all this rage and anger is bad for your health
Now then, as I said and proved they did explain what they were, if it's too complicated for you just play another kind of game
Angry birds is even free you know

All you said was gibberish was gibberish and you gave an example of it. It's not some 2deep4u story, it's a badly written one. With badly written characters and badly written plot development that uses made up words. Go play a real game instead of suckling toriyama shit.

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>Look mom I posted it again

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Holy shit, that playstation 1 arm.

The power of the cell

Not him, but if you don't remember FFXIII locks what party members you can use all the way until the very end of the game. Most of the time it's due to story reasons (bullshit as story should not hurt gameplay in a video game) and some times it had no reason, you'd have 4 characters with you and be forced to use 3 of them.

Gran Pulse killed this game for me. Either let me have my hallways or let the entire game be open world, get your fucking design concept straight.

I love lightning..!

Nothing really
I consider FF13 a completed game
though I didn't understand the complaints about no DLC

she's a cool beauty

It was the battle system that tried to be different and wasnt well recieved. Then there was the characters basically fans and non fand have characters they want to strangle. Like fans of the game hate snow and not fans hate lightning etc etc.
Also it took a page from X and made hallways galore and forced you to folow characters you may or may not liked. The story's basic premise of fighting destiny but in the end following it would have been good if the story expanded on world building more and used better exposition. Like when describing the fal'cie actually explain that they are demigods or an energy sorce, or even say they've been here long before we humans were so they come in all shapes and sizes. They dont, what they do is talk about stuff like you already know it. What happens is you see some movie and a some data log thingy pops up and says new entry. I don't know about you guys but I don't want to read something that game already should have told me.
It has good graphics and music that most of the time doesn't fit the mood or area.
This game felt like it tried too hard, and when it was finished they forgot key moments of story and so they created the data log to fill in the holes.
Over all it could have been good but fails in the eyes of many but not in the eyes of final fantasy loyalists.

the end of the game, the open area chapter - should have been about 20 hours sooner.

instead it wasn't, and you can't fault anyone for hating it because it took 26 hours to get to the good part.

Or you know, they could have just let us pick party leaders and switch paradigms from the get go. FWIW, I really enjoyed some of the early levels like the initial one on the sky-highway-wreckage thing

Truth be told so did I, but when the game became less and less open so did the story too. I wanted to know the workings of cacoon. Like see the villians plotting, or would have been cool would have a reporter character reporting on the fugitives and a rookie cops Biggs and Wedge trying to capture lightning and crew.
But it was clear that all the focus was on lightning and party the rest of the game felt like a giant waste of potential.

>But it was clear that all the focus was on lightning and party the rest of the game felt like a giant waste of potential.
I'm a Lightning-fag and even I agree. They focused way too much on underdeveloped characters and wasted a really neat setting. Toriyama should never be allowed to touch a videogame again

I mean look at what we could have learned about the inner workings of cacoon. The sequel could have been about that, maybe even on Sahz's kid as a cadet. What ever, but we got more stuff on a world we already know little about.

>>Not if you listen to FFXV Kun.
But XV kun shits on FF13 constantly.

FF13 series is the only final fantasy that actually has a good combat system. The first game was a 20 hour long tutorial because the average final fantasy fan wouldn't be able to get halfway through the game if it wasn't. Furthermore they only called it a hallway because they had fallen for the open world meme, when final fantasy has literally never been non-linear.

You know that open world meme was final fantasy's thing before even a meme was a meme.

No, FF13 is literally corridor hallways. Older FFs had a world map you travel on, can go back to previously visited areas, go off the beaten path, only stories were linear, not the maps themselves. FF13 had 10 chapters of literally you walking in a straight line, then chapter 11 an empty field just with monsters, then chapter 12 and 13 more straight line. And once you got to chapter 11 you couldn't go back to any of the places chapter 1-10.

Having a linear story is not the same thing as being a hallway. FF13 is a fucking hallway which is separate from it also having a linear story.

13 is an omen.

13 was not a good combat system.
>Random bullshit where party leader dies its the end even though you got two other dudes right there
>AOE spells that you cannot have your party separate for, everyone just hangs out on the field however they want
>Auto battle

>Random bullshit where party leader dies its the end even though you got two other dudes right there
>AOE spells that you cannot have your party separate for, everyone just hangs out on the field however they want
>Auto battle
two of these things are literally staples of one of the most celebrated Japanese titles ever I'll let you ponder what it is, kiddo

Probably the worst cast in a FF game to date. Lightening is a brick, everyone else just isn't very interesting.

Well if you are going to have movement battle you might as well be able to move out of the way.

>Another game did it so its ok

>movement battle
what are you even talking about? This isn't XII

I liked snow, only because he was the only guy who was willing to keep moving and keep a good attitude.
I can see why teeager hate him. Not broody enough.

>just another game
retard confirmed
I'm ashamed to like the same series as you fags

The ai moved around all over the battle field, might as well program them to move out of the way when being attacked.

I think you need to come down kiddo. No game is worth getting booty bothered over

I would have taken setting a formation in the menu or something

Ehh, its still understandable when you look at other good games that have implemented a similar system. I could also understand it needing this improvement, however

The only thing FF13 did was not bother with the illusion of freedom

No, this did.

I always wonder how much people played the game in English, because the dub is shit-awful and outright has multiple people out of character.

Lightning getting the worst of it.

Toriyama's wild ride stops for no one

I agree, fuck this game

Pretty much this. I cannot say for sure if it was more linear or just the same as the older games but it felt very singular in its purpose. No side quests, no breaks, no exploration. Even the environment just kinda blended together

X was still a solid entry. X-2 was hot trash and XII was literal retardation. But XIII was the game that simply gave up.

X-2 was better than X though

youtube.com/watch?v=wSV4l65GNK8

No, X started the trend of "fuck you, you're going to experience our shitty story and fucking like it". At least XIII's story wasn't about shitty teenager romance

If you drink some bleach and smoke some weed I could see how one might get confused enough to think so.

edgy

What about VII, VIII, IX? Lets not be forgetting things

Those games didn't take place in corridors.

If you think so. Next time don't say retarded shit and I won't have to correct you.

>illusion of freedom
Going back to previously explored areas, towns, talking to NPCs, optional bosses and exploring areas is not illusion of freedom, that is freedom. FF13 didn't bother even trying to flesh out its world for the player to find out by talking to people, exploring new places, it just expected you to read a datalog while you were funneled into a hallway.

youtube.com/watch?v=tU3el-Kk8Fw

X was okay
X-2 was a bit shitty
XII was garbage
XIII was garbage
XV looks like absolute garbage

my only hope is they can make a decent remake of VII, though it seems unlikely

I do think a lot of why I can't stand FF anymore is because it helped being an 11 year old girl when playing the older ones. But in FF12's defense, I liked that one MORE as an adult than as a kid.

youtube.com/watch?v=r49gikuYvr8

XV looks like the best FF since 9.

>VII
Literally playable without getting "that" scene with Tifa under the Highwind I know I didn't
>VIII
shit was so disjointed it didn't matter, though I will admit that Squall does go unnecessarily out of his way to save Rinoa a few times. Despite those segments, you could literally fuck off and go do whatever you wanted with your other female party members
>IX
I haven't played enough of this one to make a judgement but I somehow doubt Garnet is as much of a cunt/loser as the other girls named in this thread

>11 year old girl
It doesn't count if you have a femenine penis

Nah, looks like absolute shit, it's called クソゲFF for a reason

but you could go back to fight optional bosses if you got to the endgame

>inb4 XIII doesn't have NPCs and towns
Look at Nautilus and Palumpolom

Lightning Returns was really good, Type-0 was quite good, and XV looks very good as well.

They all were made after XIII, so the answer is "no".

It runs better on PC.

No. The change on target audience and business model did.

All these, sequels, movies, prequels, episodic format and now remakes killed it.

While i think IX was the last actually good game of the series i would say X was decent enough for the most part.

Then it started... X-2 was a pile of disgusting shit and it came around the the time they started to mercilessly milk FF VII.

And this is here is not SE's fault. This is the fans asking for sequels and remakes and stuff like that. This is the fans that can't just say "Okay, 50 hours game, great. What's next".

Admittedly SE just acted on demand here. Same with XIII. They attempt to milk it but if the public rejected this they would not do it. No company likes to bleed money.

XII however was a fiasco because it was an unfulfilled promise and a betrayal. It was the game that could make the statement, that could say "X-2 and sequels are a mistake. There is still something on SE for our OLD fans".

But there wasn't. Admittedly a pseudo open world game set on Ivalice was too ambitious to begin with but they also decided to try that battle system. Real time was not that bad but the gambits where shit, the party while colorful was full of shit and really unnecessary characters, more than ever before... and the story suffered from the change of teams mid development.

XII was the moment where people lost faith.
XIII was the game that made people think "maybe on PS3 things are gonna be different" And people was betrayed AGAIN.

It was the game (series of games) that finally made people lose hope on FF and the quality they once standed for.

Those don't count because there's nothing to do in them.

XII is the best FF...
You just have shit taste dude.

FF7 had a meteor crash landing into the planet and there was still time to play virtual basketball at the arcade as hated fugitives, FF10 you were fugitives for the last third of the game and you could still fuck around. Even from a plot perspective 13 is all around trash.

How dare people want a series to be like itself.

You still seem to believe that sales = quality.

FFXIII-Kun is worse than FFXV-Kun at this point.

That's my point exactly. In almost any RPG where the game doesn't just force a time limit on the player you're allowed to do sidequests and other stuff for as long as you want even if the plot says there's urgent shit you need to attend to.

>You still seem to believe that sales = quality.

sales = people liked something and bought it

XII could have been the best but it's not. That's what pisses me off.
The story does not really start till like one is 30 hours in, Vaan and Penelo are more out of place than even Quena, the gameplay was shitty and gambits mechanics where utterly fucked up. Not to mention that shitty special moves arts.

The zodiac version fixes lots of the gameplay issues by introducing the job system but even the pacing can not be fixed, the lack of Uematsu memoral songs can not be fixed either.
I do love Basch, Ash and Balthier and specially Ivalice and the art style. The art was 9/10 at the very least. I much rather prefer that kind of art and setting than XIII or XV.

>le kusoge meme
So because people in Japan shitpost that somehow means no one calls them out and that's somehow the only thing people in Japan say? Get fucked faggot. Go cry about the FFXV line at TGS being 4 hour waiting line just to play a 30 minute demo.

Not really but their sensibility on how to make JRPG's for consoles seems pretty shot now

Quality is subjective.

>Look at Nautilus and Palumpolom
You do nothing in Palumpolom, it's not an actual town in the sense that towns work in every fucking JRPG ever, it's just a hallway that takes place among civilization. Nautilus also just another hallway and nothing to even do in any of them.

>o fight optional bosses
No you are just fighting stronger versions of monsters that are already roaming around Gran Pulse.

Honestly that's my problem with FFXV before it even came out, just already kind of sick of it after 10 years of development hell and especially the promotional blitz of the post Uncovered phase of it all. Critics in Japan have compared it to Star Wars levels of nauseating promotions and product tie-ups and I have to agree though nothing will ever EVER top Star Wars episode 1 for me in terms of just blanket advertising where quite literally everywhere I looked that could possibly have an advertisement would be plugging it about 6 months leading up to and including it's theater run.

This. I can't touch a single DQ game because that hideous XXXL-forehead artstyle.

>look at me I know basic katakana!
>my opinion is superior!
Kill yourself.

1) Taste is not a reflection on the quality of a product. There are people that like transformers movies and go watch them but that does not make those movies good movies.

2) Sales reflect a successful marketing campaign not a good game/movie.

At least Shin Megami Tensei does the whole modern setting thing well and doesn't forget it's a JRPG along the way. I'll say this if FFXIII introduced anything truly horrible into the mainline Final Fantasy's it was this whole streamlining and simplifying the elements and systems thing to the point where it feels like you have no control over even your own parties development (the whole fucking point of RPG scenarios since the days of tabletop D&D) and trying to make them appear like they're not JRPG's but generic Triple A action games things Square Enix is doing. It feels like we're back to that stupid 7th console generation era or god forbid the 3rd and 4th generations of industry thinking where they for some reason are convinced JRPG's are completely unmarketable in the West in their traditional format and they have to be dumbed down to appeal to Western gamers.

I honstly don't see what's wrong with ff13-3 combat
it's dynamic, forces you to switch around techniques fast, low tier techniques have as much point than the big 50 points cost one, you really need to play around weaknesses, you can't lock yourself in a healing circle
honestly, how is that bad?

XII was fantastic. Even some of the handheld stuff is still solid and I have reasonable hopes for World of Final Fantasy. It's the whole Nomura inspired wing of games and everything to come out of Fabula Nova Crystallis that have been and always will be the problem.

It didn't kill Final Fantasy, but it certainly bring it to Etro's Gate, if that's what you were asking.

Wada was absolutely fucking horrible as a CEO beyond my worst nightmares and a total corporate thinker that had no business running the company. With FFXV it still feels like they're crawling out from under his shadow which is why I just want them to get it the fuck out already.

Seriously though what actually managed to make it out without serious problems during his entirely too long tenure? In any case I heard he works at an App Monetization consulting firm somewhere now which seems far more a proper fit for his thinking and skill sets as a manager

Its indefensible coming from the FF franchise. The games were famous when they had full world maps, tons of shit to do, and felt at least on some level like your party was actually adventuring around the world they were in while completing its story and meeting all its people. 13 was just the culmination of too many of its elements finally being stripped away. No full world, not a whole lot to do, almost no adventure beyond the mandatory corridors with changing backgrounds, you meet no one, fuck you don't even shop in real stores, you buy everything online. Its an extremely barren experience in terms of anything that would make it feel real.
To me, 13 spent the last of the loyalty that the franchise had built from 1-9.

>At least XIII's story wasn't about shitty teenager romance
Were you sleeping through the entire game? I mean, it's the kind of game that plays itself, but come on.

>Taste is not a reflection on the quality of a product. There are people that like transformers movies and go watch them but that does not make those movies good movies.

It makes them things that most people think are good.

>one line that he shouts all the time
>good character
LOL

That was my only post, what makes you so sure about that? My point is the FF franchise is still not dead, especially since FFXIII sold really well. Therefore it could not have killed FF, although it may have dropped its quality. Since that was never the topic of the thread though, it does not matter

>shitty
>teenager
Yuri lust 2 stronk

Every single thing.

The combat had potential but was fucking killed by the fact that every battle was fucking long as shit due to enemies having hugely inflated health and the fact that it had to stick to a menu meaning that you needed to do auto battle to be fast enough to pull off move quickly, unless you're some turbo autist who cancels the 5th move because of the overly long animation that is pulled off but then you're just fighting the game's own mechanics at that point which really exemplify what went wrong

removing overworld was a mistake

>vanille has the best ass in the game
>has a saucy fuck me walk
>leave the ass covered up
who the fuck thought that was a good idea