Kaz: Big Boss can go to Hell

But then why does Big Boss tell Solid to stop halfway?

Why didn't Big Boss just kill Venom himself

I dont fucking know, the whole timeline and plot of the series is beyond fucked. Just use whatever head cannon you want that makes the series make sense, Im sure thats what Kojima has been doing for the past decade.

isn't it two different frequencies?

what was hes name again ?

Kaz "A grave for every slave" Miller

He didn't realize Big Boss' autism was included in the brainwashing.

At least he succeded with Solid Snake.

Kazuhira ''I'm a very racist person'' Miller
youtube.com/watch?v=cb424eDrGCg

Idiots, there's not a single thing pointing at Venom siding against Big Boss.

Big Boss went back to FOXHOUND to lower suspicions on him being the leader of Outer Heaven, and sent Solid Snake there so that Outer Heaven would kill him since he was a creation of Cipher.

Naked boss/snake =mgs3 and peace walker. Aka original
Venom = the other fucker

Venom never met Solid Snake apart from when he died.

Outer Heaven was created by Big Boss, and then Diamond Dogs moved in there.

Big Boss didn't create Zanzibar Land, he helped that country become independant.

This.

Play the fucking games people. Naked sent snake to Outer Heaven because he didn't believe he'd survive. That was never retconned. Venom didn't meet Naked until 4, and Naked had no clue snake would actually kill Venom.

People are so butthurt they didnt get to go nuclear that they're rationalizing venom, a literal memetic clone of naked, as wanting revenge against himself.

Solid didn't meet naked until 4* My bad.

>Venom didn't meet naked until 4
Wait, wut?

What a mess we made! When it all went wrong!!!!

No, Solid Snake was trained by Big Boss.
He only met Venom once, in Outer Heaven when he killed him.

This is implied in the novelization of MGS1 that came out a year ago, where Snake says he remembers Big Boss in Outer Heaven looking different, like a monster with horns, but he just thinks it might be PTSD.

Then who the fuck trained him?

Yeah you're right, didnt realize I fucked that up until afterward. Naked trained Solid, fuck even gave him his codename. I goofed.

But still the idea that VENOM sent solid after naked is fucking hairbrained given we know now that venom was who was killed at outer heaven. People are just so upset they didnt go nuclear that they're trying to play venom off as a better man somehow when they're the exact same person in every way but genetics after the incident.

No, people who are upset that they didn't get to go nuclear are just upset that they didn't get to go nuclear.

The big question is why does Big Boss in MGS4 not know Zero didn't hate him?

Kojima forgot about that line when doing MGSV is the real answer.

Also didn't Zero make his peace with BB was BB was still in a coma?

Ocelot also told BB that Zero kept him safe in the hospital

He did, but his involvement behind the Venom plan would have been a dead giveaway that he cared enough about Big Boss to try and keep him safe.

I suppose you could try and rationalize it as Big Boss simply not believing that it was an act of care, instead just writing it off as another ploy by Zero to protect Big Boss as the icon and figurehead he wanted him to be.

Yeah. I guess either way BB wanted to kill Zero (and then die himself) to end the Patriots.

He read the script.

That's a fair point actually, Big Boss was convinced Zero just wanted him to be a messianic figure to make the Patriots look better. He'd probably dismiss anybody telling him "Zero actually cares about you a lot man" as Zero trying to appeal to him personally to get him back on board.

How come nothing ever comes of Ocelot being the true biological son of the Boss? I know the duality of Liquid and Ocelot was dumb but I kinda wish it had been in MGS4 too because I wanted more Ocelot and less Liquid.

It comes into play in two ways:

1. His possession in MGS2 was genuine, because he's the son of a genuine powerful psychic medium. This inspired him to remove Liquid's arm but maintain the act to fool the Patriots.

2. The black armband he wears in every single game is a universal sign of mourning. He wore it during Operation Snake Eater because he knew exactly whose death was on the cards all along.

>1. His possession in MGS2 was genuine, because he's the son of a genuine powerful psychic medium. This inspired him to remove Liquid's arm but maintain the act to fool the Patriots.

Oh fuck. Forgot about that.

>If I have a child, he'll have my genes and your memes.
>He'll be our child.
Man, Strangelove was kind of creepy.

I still maintain that she was a delusional obsessive and her "relationship" with The Boss was almost entirely one-sided out of creepy stalker infatuation.

MGS4 would be a lot better if instead of Ocelot it was actually the real Liquid.
Kojima always regretted killing Liquid so soon.

I don't think she ever claims that they were in a relationship
I recall her saying the boss was the woman she loved and snake took her away from her, and that they were "ships passing in the night"

I don't know, never really sounded to me like she thought it was anything more than what it was

Why would Liquid want to carry on Big Boss' will?

I almost agree, but what we actually got gave us Ocelot: Master Ruseman, so I feel like it was a win either way.

I'm sure some of her tapes in MGSPW allude to there being some kind of relationship between them.

Right, i forgot about all that in MGS4.
To be fair, i honestly just remember the whole Liquid ruse and Ocelot wanting to destroy the Patriots.

I regret it too. I thought Liquid was so cool. I love MGS1 for its characters and the atmosphere. It's just a shame the gameplay is so dated feeling. All the games feel so dated after playing MGSV because that gameplay is so tight.

If Liquid had an IQ of 180, why he was so dumb about genetics?

From a phenotype perspective, and assuming that BB's genetics were the best of the best, he was right.

That's the eternal question, isn't it?

I've heard various rumors about being able to hear soldiers on Mother Base in MGSV talk about how Eli is failing his biology classes, but that sounds like That Kid all over.

Why are you even looking at the story instead of the obvious meta message of phantom pain and the parallel of the wounded soldier and the wounded gamer.

It's Kubrick level.

No matter how high your IQ is, it won't help much if you never pick up a textbook. Liquid was trained in the art of war, he never learned genetics. He probably just took whatever Liquid and the Patriots told him at face value and never bothered to fact check.

Never heard it, but i know it has a talk between two female soldiers about who's more handsome, Snake, Ocelot or Kaz, so shit, it can be in it.

>People think Punished Snake is just a second codename for Venom

It's almost as if...There's a missing limb...oh shit.

I genuinely liked the story, is why.

It felt like a character study, rather than being event-driven like previous games. It almost felt like Kojima trying to make There Will Be Blood, except with literal blood instead of oil.

mgsv should have been a character study of big boss but instead there was no character in venom

>I genuinely liked the story

Me2. Skull face's plot was pretty cool. Quiet's story was pretty cool.

Unfortunately though that opening hospital stage and all of the released story trailers just set the bar so high. Like it was going to get the same kind of story treatment as 1-4. And then it just didn't :(

>there was no character in venom
I found plenty of character in his body language and physical reactions to the situations he found himself in. He didn't have to say anything for me to infer plenty about his personality.

Kazuhira Miller

Shut the fuck up

Nah m8.

>there was no character in venom

There are some VERY small things I like about Venom and some kind of "hidden" characterization I think he gets.

1. The genuine moment he and quiet share in the rain scene is nice. It would feel out of place for Big Boss but know it's a different guy just made it feel better.

2. The Paz thing was neat. Venom clearly has guilt over not being able to save Paz.

3. In the hospital, Venom asks BB, "What happened to the woman?" And BB answers "We gave her a light and she took the short way down." In my headcanon, I assume the Venom is referring to Paz when he says, "The woman".

Some more stuff like that would have been nice.

What if everything is a dream and Big Boss is still in a coma?

>what if everything is a coma and big boss is STILL IN A DREEEAAM
ftfy

But seriously the Paz side story calls the entire game's reality into question just because of the sheer scope of Venom's hallucinations, you could easily headcanon it that he's actually a seriously delusional genuine Big Boss.

Why does Outer Heaven have like 3 different emblems?

>3. In the hospital, Venom asks BB, "What happened to the woman?" And BB answers "We gave her a light and she took the short way down." In my headcanon, I assume the Venom is referring to Paz when he says, "The woman".

Fuck, I actually like that better than Ishmael (BB) referring to Quiet.

Yes, but he expected him to fail.

Defeating Venom was the graduation ceremony. They knew he was ready after that.

Why not?

Also, it's only got two.

Excellent post. I've never seen so much discussion with minimal shit posting. Bravo. All of you.

Not a lot of dialogue =/= no character.
Venom shows a lot of emotion without talking. This was Kojima's plan from the getgo because TECHNOLOGY.
youtu.be/sj_UBSeduHQ?t=149 (watch from 2:29)

You might argue he might have overdone it but when you pay close attention during a second playthrough you'll see a lot of it and other subtext.
The story of V is actually pretty good, it clearly suffered from cut content and bad presentation due to time constraints but what's there is masterfully crafted and open to different interpretations.

It'll take some time to sink in with a lot of people, judging from the both fair and unfair criticisms and misunderstanding. It repeats a lot of themes from MGS2, only with a different take on things.

Those who don't understand why there is no real goal any more in chapter 2 and think the plot sucks balls should really check out this guy's work:
youtube.com/watch?v=EA4uan90HeA&list=WL&index=14

It's a flawed masterpiece, like pretty much every MGS game that came before.

I thought about saying this but I didn't want to jinx it

Three.

>outer haven
Two.

Outer Haven was Ocelot's revision.

Its funny how they removed the swastika so they wont trigger the whole west

Well said.

Thematically, MGSV is a complete inversion of MGS2. MGS2 ends with Raiden being told that he can't have an identity forced upon him; he is his own man and gets to decide who he is and what he wants to make of his existence.

Venom is a total reversal, with the game ending with Big Boss literally telling you who you are and what you will do with it. No choice, no freedom. You are who he says you are, and you'll live and die by that.

Would Venom Snake had killed Big Boss if Darth Vader hadn't destroyed the One Ring?

DECOY OCTOPUS WAS VENOM SNAKE ALL ALONG

I REFUSE TO THINK VENOM IS THE BB WE KILL IN MG

Then where he at? Where he go? Who is the BB we kill in Metal Queer?

Sorry, but he is.

>where did he come from
>where did he go
>where did he come from punished snake

Kaz was the best part of Phantom Pain. He was such a crotchety old fucker, and one of the only characters who acted like an actual MGS character. I was honestly expecting a cutscene where he rattles his cane against Quiet's prison bars to try and piss her off.

>MGS2 was about anybody being able to become Solid Snake under the right circumstances.
>MGS3 was about anybody can become Boss under the right circumstances.
>MGS5 Anybody can become Big Boss under the right circumstances.
>MGS4 anybody can become magical flying vampire monsters under the right nanomachines.

I really hate the fact that Parasites was the explanation behind The Cobra Unit, similar to Nanomachines being behind Dead 7's Vamp and shit in 4.

>replaying Peace Walker
>see Kaz full of hopes and dreams for the MSF
Shit man

I feel like Ocelot flips a coin once every morning and backstabs people every time he gets tails.

>I really hate the fact that Parasites was the explanation behind The Cobra Unit,

My headcanon ignores this.

Sometimes you just have a spirit medium and a dude who talks to bees. Just like sometimes you have a real live psychic.

I hate that they tried to explain stuff away as parasites or nanomachines when there was already some crazy shit. I wanted just weird magical forces to be present.

The only one they confirmed as being parasites was The End. Maybe The Pain, I'm hazy there.

But there's no way The Fear, The Fury or The Sorrow were parasite powered.

>Just like sometimes you have a real live psychic.
I know they tried to explain parasites for the others and god do I hate the "oh by the way the bosses that blew up had usable parasite samples on them" but I don't remember them trying to handwave The Sorrow, did they?

It wouldn't make sense anyway if one's headcanon for Ocelot was that his possessions during MGS2 were legit. I doubt parasites would be ghostly, much less hereditary (and it'd potentially devalue the Boss if they stuck on her to boot).

MGS never completely dispels the supernatural. Psycho Mantis is a genuine psychic. Parasites can't account for The Fear, who's simply an acrobat with stealth camo, The Fury, who is just a guy who got angry about space and maybe turned into a fire ghost, or The Sorrow, whose powers were genuine interaction with the dead and can't be attributed to any kind of microbe.

>MGS never completely dispels the supernatural.

And let's not forget that the Boss's scar turns into a fucking snake and slithers away.