Why did Half-Life get all the praise when SiN was the better game?

Unreal was better than Half-Life too. Half-Life had the best mods though.

too many bugs, way to fucking many

baka desu senpai

yes those are some critisim, but SiN had

Locational damage
Stealth
Objectives
Usable computers
Vehicles
Better gunplay

Also branching paths, shit you could do that affected later stages, turret sections (back when those were still uncommon as fuck),wacky secrets and a separate shooting gallery minigame area.

and tits

jesus, they didn't even try

is it like that in the gog version, if bought from germany?

Why is Avatar the most successsful movie of all time despite being utter tree hugging hippie vegan fagshit while real masterpieces don't even break even and are lost in time and obscurity?

Life sucks aids infested nigger shitdicks and if god exists, he is a sadistic psychopath.

Sin was not presenting something innovative at that time. Besides level design was really shitty.

For Half-Life

>Best use of script events (Before only Unreal had one as a FPS)
>Narrative storyline implemented in gameplay
>Great AI (AI was a major consideration at that times for a game to be good)

Breakable armor was the shit back then.

>Sin was not presenting something innovative at that time. Besides level design was really shitty.
Toddler, please. I bet you weren't even born when SiN and HL came out. Let adults talk in this thread.

Scripted events have been around for a long time. System Shock 1 took good advantage of them with Shodan.

JIMMY! CALL FOR HEEELLP!

>Who are you supposed to be, BARNEY MILLER?!

Good stuff.

The stealth's done rather badly, but everything else feels like Ritual building on Duke Nukem 3D's formula and silly detail. I still prefer the older game, though SiN is at least on par with Half-Life.

>is it like that in the gog version, if bought from germany?

No idea but even if it is, it's just one "set parent_mode=1" console command away from being uncensored.
The most amusing thing was when a corpse in the missile silo level was completely made out of those boxes while his severed hand right next to him wasn't since it was an useable inventory item.

WHERE THE FUCK IS SIN II PLZ?

>Unreal was better than HL
I can understand Sin, but this?

It really is.
>better AI
>better environments
>WAY better weapons
>takes advantage of environmental storytelling and never locks you in a room while delivering exposition

They tried, you might not have been born in time to buy a copy to fund another one.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiN_Episodes

From the thumbnail I thought that was Requiem Avenging Angel at first.

What's the world come to?

And even its own (awful) animu.

Every franchise that tried to use Source Engine other than Valve died a painful death. Coincidence?

Zeno Clash survived it.

When everything's going the way of the gun.

I own a copy of that. The most amazing part is that the japanese voices, english voices and english subs are all widely different and change key points of the story so it becomes its own cheap bootleg.

because half life had half life 2 and SiN had SiN emergence (shit)

ironically both series were left unfinished

thats a mod that found success through source, like many others, not a franchise by a known dev team

first half was good
second half was "blew our entire budget on booking that philharmonic orchestra"

too bad
maybe it was too ambitious or just too early an endeavor

Half-Life 2 sucks though.

I will be angry until the day I die that they hopped on the episodic bandwagon. All I wanted was a SiN sequel.

> sudden uptick

a combination of reverse-psychology shilling and outright hating by a younger audience who insist on "digging up the dead"

The only things I remember were JC dying in the first few minutes, the completely different tone from the game and a scene from inside a scope where the movie's borders weren't properly trimmed so you could see the borders of the scope-cel that was put on top of the others.

Never really played the single player, but SiN multiplayer was way better than HL multiplayer

>half life 2 widely praised and claimed one of the greatest pc games ever by many critics
>half-life 2 sucks though

>most technically impressive game of its time
That was Unreal.

half life 2 really started the successful episodic release genre, coincidence?

>Besides level design was really shitty
youtube.com/watch?v=1WqD7HJS27U
come on now......

>Great AI

You're kidding me right? Everything in HL was scripted, just because they can throw grenades doesn't mean it has great AI.

>Save the world
>With see-saw puzzles
>and ending on a cliffhanger
trash

a game being better isn't always a good thing

It's gimmicky and boring with overly long vehicle sections and too many areas that are basically cutscenes you can walk around in. I enjoyed both episodes much more than the actual main game.

...

You're a dumbass end yourself, the AI flanks you, takes cover, retreats, moves out of your way

>can't even move while shooting
>caint feint death
>just run away, throw grenades, or shoot hitscan while standing still

>Its bad cause their are short puzzles to add variety and break up the pacing
>its bad cause muh story

Kill yourself

feign*

Lets here what you think is good AI at the time

Unreal

at least the msic sounds good

the sound effects sound cool on that sniper rifle too

what is it with spinoff movies/anime and killing off the MC's sidekick right away?

So they can bring in the female replacement with the obligatory shower scene.

youre a nut scrubber if you never saw this video

youtube.com/watch?v=gt8LXKLL0to

Unreal was better at AI, because whatshteirfaces were pretty much deathmatch bots wearing lizard skins.
Half-Life isn't anything impressive at this time but felt like there was simply because:
- it was army killing squads
- they talked loudly in stereotypical radio chatters
- there were plenty of navpoints (not to mention that levels were specifically suited for them) to try and surprise you from flank or even the back.
- they didn't like it when you stayed in one spot too long so they used grenades to keep you moving

All in all Unreal had a much better "deathmatch AI", HL's marines were better scripted to behave like humans.

>whatshteirfaces
skaarjes sorry i didn't remember it when i posted

HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA

>m-muh cockroach AI

Descent 2

and what "le AI" does unreal have to tout?

yea that's what i thought

Fuck Descent 2 and fuck those faggot ass thief bots.

tfw we'll never get another sin game

that game had a fuckton of TECHNOLOGY for its time

Also fuck the brown and invisible clawy things, those fuckers loved to stalk you through shadows and shit only to pounce you and fuck your day when you least expected it.

At least the green ones in the first game went straight for you.

le 18+ board kiddo
If you don't know what's impressive about Unreal's AI you weren't old enough to witness it.

> hur hur hur look at me dodge the question

answer the question mate

looks i was right aboot you not having anything to say about unreal's AI

check mate nutter

it was literally the first game where you could play against computer in multiplayer
please don't be so passive aggressive it really doesn't suit you

Not worth explaining to a child.

>literally the first game where you could play against computer in multiplayer
i mean in a fps of course

Pretty sure Quake had bots before that, albeit as mods.

ironic youd say that since you are one yourself

>complains about ai being scripted
>thinks adding more animations is "ai"
you're a retard

>guiz it has good AI cause it was the first to have bots

I got Sin Episodes because I enjoyed Sin and I knew the tits would be back.
Shame it never developed any more content because it was halfway decent and could have been improved upon

quakec mods (not even source ports) and yes later than unreal regretfully
because I prefer quake as an MP game
you're literally a spoiled child
name me a game with better one then

>Rock the kasbah!

But SS1 was a fairly niche, clunky FPS/RPG hybrid. HL1 was a fluid fps with an immersive setting, all the technological improvements listed earlier, AND an active, approachable modding scene

SS1 didn't have any RPG elements. It was just clunky.

>name me a game with better one then

Every later multiplayer game with bots

there wasn't any modding for SS1
plenty of shiny stuff for SS2 though

>later than unreal regretfully
Actually, before Unreal. The Quake Reaper bot got released first and its developer got hired by Epic to work on the AI for Unreal which was still in development at that time.

>later
so Q3 where it was kind of the point?

it was still quakec stuff, i remember it had its own wad and was clunky as all hell to get into the game with you
but you're right you could even coop with RB albeit only on maps where he had waypoints to navigate without falling into lava
doesn't really compete with unreal

better game? no fucking way. I was actually a fan of the demo version and got the full game when it was released. it was super buggy because, so I took it back to the store and got half-life instead.

I think it was notoriously laggy even on good systems of the time.

that and installation was fucked.

SIN had changing textures depending on damage you've done to a mob.
Revolutionary Half-Life didn't.
you're right

Surprisingly, Reaper didn't use preset waypoints. It generated it own level waypoints as it played so while it would jump into the lava at first, it would gradually figure out where it could and couldn't go. Unreal's AI made use of waypoints and zones so they didn't have retarded enemies running around while they learned the level but it did make use of that level data and the immediate space around it to figure out what it should do, making it appear more reactive and not bogging down the system with junk data.

The wad and impulse control system was a pain but it was early days after all. Gotta have some rough edges first.

>It generated it own level waypoints as it played so while it would jump into the lava at first, it would gradually figure out where it could and couldn't go
i can only imagine this as being more annoying than beneficial
you don't want to play with a obscenely dumb retard falling into lava every 5 seconds, but with a somewhat competitive player, right?
i hear you about rough edges and all that but unreal did bots much better and it was same fucking year.

although their system requirements were something from valinor at this time, i'll five you that.

Since none of you cucks actually listed reasons why Unreal AI is great, I will.
>skaarj scouts are relentless and aggressive and will run and shoot towards you, trying to close the gap in tight spaces to melee you
>enemies will predict where your shots will land and roll out of the way while predicting where you will be in a shootout
>enemies can feign death after a hit and will come back to attack you
>skaarj can jump and go anywhere on the map from floor to floor unlike the static marine of Half-Life
>enemies will also fall back when appropriate and take cover when low on health
>most, it not all of the enemies in Unreal fire projectiles unlike the hitscan heavy enemies of Half-Life
Unreal feels like you're playing a game where every enemy is another player that have all the tricks you do

because it was the same AI bots used in deathmatch
AI in half-life is more "realistic" while AI in Unreal is more like another player is trying to fuck your shit up.
The question is which one do you prefer more.

Which one was the case with Halo Legendary, was it just them one shotting you or using clever tactics or what?
I honestly don't remember.

Wasn't the same year. Reaper got released about a year before Unreal did, so he had extra time to work on it. Reaper also stored the info it learned about a map and used it the next time you played on it, so it would get smart and stay smart. Having to go through baby steps was a pain but there was no standard for enemy behavior at the time and it didn't make much sense to have people build maps with functions for a third party addon that people may not even be using, especially when there were a lot of other options and they all worked differently, so a learning bot was really the best option to go with at the time.

Not saying Unreal is bad, UT99 still has great bot behavior but it is predictable, borderline cheating at times and easily cheesed. It wasn't until Halo 2 introduced behavior trees when enemy AI got more realistic responses to the player, environment and general events.

Both. Legendary upped the damage and made enemies smarter.

I remember quitting it at some portal thingie, literally not enough ammo to keep them off and no cover to speak of.

That's not true at all. There's multiple enemy types and abilities not present in the multiplayer bots. Even if it was true, that does not discredit Unreal's bots at all and makes them more impressive than Half-Life's simpler AI. There is nothing realistic looking about their AI either.

Also Monolith Productions had much more realistic AI than Valve at any point in history.

it amounted to nothing at all, learning bots were an easily led to fallacy. nobody wants to play with ever learning bots, people want to master tricks and keep using them.
bots fell into irrecoverable chasm as soon as online multiplayer became a thing and good riddance anyway
my point wasn't even about bots, but how unreal cleverly used generic bot AI (with navpoints, zones of control, all that jazz) as a single player enhancing feature.
you're very knowledgeable about the whole issue though and we should fuck sometimes.

>leach off hl fame
>better
Nah

hl's ai is much more "realistic" as far as what you expect from government troops to behave like when they're killing everything
it doesn't make ANY of them better, both hl and unreal are just differently handling it. you can't have both, it's either skaarjes doing rocket jumps around you or headcrabs jumping out of the vents and scaring you shitless.

Titan fall?

no i just played nolf and their ai was either stay in cover or run to your position guns blazing
it wasn't a good ai by any means

I'd disagree about bots serving no purpose these days. I've got too many games I'd like to do multiplayer in that I can't because everyone moved on to other games or their servers up and died, so having bots, even retarded lava swimming ones, would be nice to have.

>that part on the crashed ship
>tight corridors and small rooms
>nothing but an endless swarm of Skaarj warriors

I think they're completely no challenge even if you ramp up their shooting skills to be pinpoint.
They never expect you to change your route or being above them because they weren't programmed with that in mind.
Play with them for a bit and you know every nuance and fallacy in their tiny feeble circuit minds. It becomes boring very soon.
Unless you're playing with serious handicaps. I know a guy who plays with bots because he only has a quarter of one hand.

Unreal was good but never as good as Half-Life.

No, it was better.

>tfw never on sale on steam
Should I just shell out the $10 for it?

they were both good
just different
in hl you could never have battles like that

The original Sin? Pirate the GOG version.
Episodes? Wait it out.

it was very meh
just play unreal or half-life because that's what this thread is about now anyway

This. Most FPS games of the time were though. Half-Life's greatest strength was its modding community that pretty much overshadowed the main game. Things like NS, TS, Firearms, CS, Brainbread, Zombie Panic were all great.

remember me

>in hl you could never have battles like that

What, cheesing shitty enemy AI with a pillar?

Yeah, you had to use cans instead.

>he actually prefers firing from behind cover

I never played quake team fortress. I did play a bit of TFC though.

Half Life has garbage ice skate movement, it's like playing zdoom with freelook enabled, how does anyone like this shit?

In Half-Life you would just run around the pillar and headshot the marine with your magnum as he tries to swivel around to see you.

it's still a dumb computer, nothing unlike your brain evolved by ages of evolution
cut your poor computer some slack at least it's genuinely trying
what if your son was like that, you gonna post "look how retarded my son is" videos on youtube? no, you'd be proud that it even tried.
qwtf was the shit bro, i even remember it going through iterations
like scout having a dumbshit "scanner" which showed you nearest enemies through lightning gun shot models
then they gave scout concussion grenades which launched you over 9000 miles and then it degenerated into grenade spam over the time
was still fun as fuck and as far as I know TFC was basically a reskin of QWTF but I quit playing before even TF2 became a thing.

>launched you over 9000 miles
it wasn't an intended feature though, people just learned to use old quake engine glitches over time and could grenade launch themselves from corners into stratosphere

Yes it was you retard

nah
were mirvs in spawn also a part of your grand plan? they were right to get rid of grenades in tf2
even though i never played it

Problems with NOLF's AI can be attributed to them trying to emulate spy movies complete with elaborate deaths where enemies fall over railings or roll all the way down stairs after cheesily popping out of cover. When you alerted the enemy in some missions the AI could seriously gangrape you. As far as I know, FEAR just has a modified version of NOLF's AI.

Being able to do more than move in a straight line is AI

nigger i was 12 when sin was released and it was incredibly mediocre game even back then

seriously whats next because halflife is so popular. chasm is better fps too?