There's no good 3D sonic g-----

Werehog levels ruin it. Generations is the best 3D Sonic.

great thread btw

completely unironically

>its a "call the game that plays in 2D 80% of the time the best 3D sonic game" episode

I guess that's why gamespot gave it a 4.5/10

Inb4 people think Colors is a 3D game

You have to actually say candlejack's name for that to wor

XDDD

Seeing Unleashed get lower scores than fucking Sonic 06 was the most blatant example of reviewer backlash overcompensation I've ever seen.
"N-no guys, we think Sonic sucks balls now too, really!"
Ironically, they picked the first game that actually got 3D Sonic gameplay right to do it.

Yeah because this game was totally equal or worse to 06...yep no bias there! A nice fair honest review if I've seen one!

it's not bias, it was just different critics. They thought Unleashed deserved such low scores regardless of context. They're not supposed to review games taking the previous game into account. You don't get a prize for making improvements if the game is still shit.

I don't hate Unleashed but it delivers a CRAZILY unbalanced experience. A couple of great day stages do not make up for hour upon hour of boring werehog and frustrating game design in the latter half of the speed levels. The story was laughably bad and there were also some performance issues. Medal collecting to inhibit progress and draw out the experience exacerbated things.

I feel like the people who swear by this game only play the unleashed project which is not what the original release was like at ALL.

There have been zero (0) good 3D Sonic games. Adventure through 06 varied from absolute dogshit at worst and average at best. The boost games and Lost World were mostly 2D. It's been almost 20 years and they still haven't gotten good 3D Sonic gameplay right even though tons of other games since Adventure have managed to get smooth 3D platforming right.

The original game is better than the unleashed project. Unleashed has my favorite controls and physics out of all the 3D games

Maybe if the Werehog portion wasn't in the game, otherwise I'll give it a 6/10 at best.

Putting the homing attack button on boost instead of jump by itself disqualifies it from having the best controls.

Generations and by extension TUP had fucking awful controls compared to Unleashed. The only improvements were dropping the QTEs, separating homing attack from bounce, and making drift actually controllable, everything else was a huge downgrade.
I'm not going to pretend werehog was great, though it wasn't awful either. But 3D Sonic gameplay has never been better than it was in Unleashed.

Be honest, that never actually killed anyone unless you were the ign reviewer who jumped into the pit and then said the game was glitchy.

That's not a good game
Unleashed sucked

>Generations and by extension TUP had fucking awful controls compared to Unleashed.
You're retarded, they're the same damn shit

A good game is a good game,you can't say it's only half

Fuck

>Tons of other games since adventure have got 3D platforming right

Not really, they mostly all suck

100% of it is a good game, not half

And you spend most of you time in Unleashed playing a GoW clone, and you spend most of your time in the Adventure games playing as characters other than Sonic.

We've never gotten a 3D Sonic game where you actually spend most of the game playing as Sonic in 3D.

Unironically, Shadow the Hedgehog
He controls exactly like Sonic, so it doesn't make a difference

Yes but the day stages are easily the best sonic content in any 3D game. I'd argue out of all sonic, period. They also are better balanced and you can beat the game feeling like it was mainly a 3D product rather than a 2D one

There's actually 3 parts to a good game. The daytime stages, the werehog stages and the fast.

Unleashedfags are the new RE6fags

I dont get it

>implying sonic unleashed or resident evil 6 are bad games

Purists are the worse and most autistic bunch out of any fanbase

It's literally one underage girl though.

I guess that's about as close as you can get, though I'd argue the vehicles, weapons, and moral choices feel pretty exclusively Shadow's.

It's a shame those Sonic levels had to be attached to the rest of the game, though.

One thing I have to give Shadow credit for, is that the vehicles and weapons were pretty much entirely optional.

As were alternate objectives.

It feels like it actually fixed a lot of the problems of the Adventure games. The only downside is that it retained a great deal of Heroes' problems.

>the rest of the game

you mean the one that is well crafted and small hubs with lots of activities/side quests to get in? Or perhaps it was the nothing spectacular but decently fun and put together werehog levels? The quick and simple bosses? The finding collectibles? The great dlc levels? that rest of the game? Nothing in unleashed is 4/10 worthy, thats for sure

Hillary isn't much of a sonic fan these da-

How are the daytime levels better than Modern levels from Generations? It's the same gameplay style with much better level design.

underrated post

>well crafted and small hubs with lots of activities/side quests to get in?
Would be better if Sonic didn't control like ass in the game while going slow.

>decently fun and put together werehog levels?
You're the only person in existence who believes this.

If they were put in their own game many would call it one of the 360/ps3s best 3D platformers

you have to go back

>The finding collectibles?

Can you really call mandatory collectibles in a Sonic game a plus?

>comparing that shit to a decent (albeit messy) 3rd-person shooter

I'd actually enjoy Boost/Adventure if the level design was any bit challenging and reflexive.

Unleashed wasn't very good, though.

I enjoyed sonic adventures 2

Many are thrown in your face. Hubs, action hubs, bosses, and giving souvenirs to pickle give dozens of free medals. The only time one might get stuck is for adabat day. Critical hits Mario and banjo games use this formula and it is never a detriment against them

No Sonic game is challenging or reflexive though

Difference is that Mario and Banjo are specifically about exploring and finding collectibles. The collectibles themselves are the goals of the stages.

Sonic is about running your ass through levels. Encouraging the player to slow down to grab shit seems counter-intuitive.

Some sonic games are both, some are one or the other, some are neither. Sonic games are easy to pick up but hard to master

The older games were half-way there, limited by the 2D screen. 3D boostan levels can sometimes be when going for max-records too.

Sonic has always been more about exploration than Mario. Sprawling levels and a timer that goes up, as opposed to Mario's linear levels with a timer that counts down

Thats funny then, since people say the exploring of the old sonic games like sonic 3 or cd is one of the great things about them. They also loved finding chao keys and animals in adventure 2. Finding collectibles to advance the game is a common platformer trope, just because modern sonic does it doesn't mean its bad. The medal system was very lenient and going for all 400 was a good challenge if one was to do it. Theres nothing wrong with playing a level a different way and combing over it, unleasheds levels day and night are meticulously put together and beautiful to look at so its really not that big of a deal

>it's another "Sonic Unleashed fan comes out from under his rock" episode

Genesis and Advance titles had you sorta explore around to find the alternate pathways and hidden boxes/special stages. Particularly the former, which wasn't entirely about running forward.

"Sprawling" really only describes classic Sonic, which is a very different beast from modern Sonic, and the Mario games most associated with exploration didn't even have timers.

I hope this thread brings Unleashedfag back from the grave, haven't seen that dude since Sonic Mania utterly BTFO'd him

You realise people can like different things right? Unleashed is my favorite 3D sonic bar none and in my top 3 sonics but im more excited for mania than project sonic.

There are no good Sonic games period.
Sonic was never good.
16 bit speed looks like liquid vomit.

>It's the best in the series! You just have to spend 20 hours eating shit to get to it all!

The old games arent that fast most of the time, but theyre still good platformers with an interesting gimmick (the physics engine). The 3D games really ramped up the speed at the cost of alternate playstyles, adventure and unleashed are the best examples of this, unleashed being the fastest game in the series. Advance 2 and rush/rush 2 are very fast 2D games too if thats what youre looking for

>20 hours

The game is 8 or so hours, appropriate length for this genre

No, the "gimmick" is what makes it shit. Every one of the "classics" were clunky platforming with wonky physics, terrible boss fights and shitty elevator music.

>You realise people can like different things right?
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not lumping all Unleashed fans together, I'm talking about one specific guy who frequented Sonic threads pre-Mania announcement. Stop with the victim complex

Many would disagree but if thats what you think, cant stop ya

I'm not an unleashedfag but the level design in unleashed was better than that in generations (which is the game I prefer as a complete package). The levels were longer and more interesting

People will defend shit like Marble Zone and Sandopolis Zone? Some of the worst levels Ive seen in a platforming game

lol Sonic Unleashed

Colors was better even if the level design was lacking compared to daytime Unleashed.

Colors feels like one complete game. It's boost Sonic through and through. There's no bullshit. There's no padding. There's no stupid curveballs. You know what you're getting, and all the gimmicks are designed around Sonic. Even the Wisps are usually optional and basically serve to get you to hidden paths, red rings, etc. The world themes are interesting and the soundtrack is awesome. It's not the best game ever or anything. It's pretty average, but for the first time in more than a decade Sonic had a game that wasn't filled to the brim with bullshit. It's short and sweet.

Unleashed may be more "grand", but it's bogged down by so much bullshit that I'd never want to play it again. The comfy hub world basically serves no other purpose but to slow you down. The Werehog levels, no matter how "good" you get, are still way fucking longer than the daytime levels, and the medals are pointless padding. Sure, coming off of '06 it's fucking amazing, but it unfortunately still has many of the problems that had plagued modern Sonic up to that point.

I think anyone who enjoys boost Sonic and hasn't played Colors should give it a shot. Hell, emulate it, download the 60fps patch, whatever. It's a fun little experience that I think was overlooked for a while since it's a Wii exclusive.

Marble Zone is one of the worst levels you've seen in a platforming game? Really? That's all it is - pretty basic platforming. The only reason to hate it is if you think Sonic games should be all about going fast.

>shitty elevator music.

I agree those are garbage but thres good levels to m8. Only absolute classic autists call those shitfests good. I just enjoy every era of sonic

No because Sonic controls like shit at slow speeds, it's counterintuitive to levels like Marble Zone.

>Sonic controls like shit at slow speeds

nah

git gud

>controls like shit
Sonic has its quirks, but he's completely controllable at any speed once you understand how he moves.
It's like saying that Castlevania has shit controls. You need to understand the mechanics of the game.

The 2D levels basically were the padding, it's just that nobody minds them as much because it still plays like a Sonic game.

The Adventures and Unleashed are kind of like hard drugs. The highs are pretty high but the lows are just too damn low. Is it really worth the 4 minutes of bliss when I have to suffer a 20 minute hangover of mediocrity afterwards while this music plays?

youtube.com/watch?v=zlNa7RQju7Y

>muh physics!
He feels like a slippery tank. Sonic was designed for gimmick levels like Chemical Plant that show off "blast processing" but when it comes to real platforming, the clasics are a mess.

nah

git gud

It makes sense that way though. The whole game is a mix of 2D and 3D, so everything, even if it's "padding" or a gimmick or whatever, should be designed using the core mechanics the game sets out for you.

Do one thing, and try to do it well.

The werehog levels are better than many colors levels

Fucking sonicbabbies.

kys

I'd rather play any level in Colors over and Werehog level.

Werehog is very much a mix of "oh, this is neat" with a fuckton more of tedious, boring shit. Fighting enemies is usually a chore, though unlocking all the moves helps with this. Most of the platforming is very odd and sensitive, and I find myself dying a lot of times because something didn't work as it was supposed to. Don't forget the battle music that gets old after ten fucking seconds.

Worst Sonic games of all time:

10. Sonic Shuffle
9. Sonic Heroes
8. Sonic and the Black Knight
7. Sonic Adventure 2
6. Sonic Blast
5. Sonic Unleashed
4. Shadow the Hedgehog
3. Sonic Labyrinth
2. Sonic Boom: Rise of the Lyric
1. Sonic 06

nah, 06 is more enjoyable than shadow and boom.

I agree. I got minutes of enjoyment chucking my 360 copy around the parking lot before backing over it with my car. That's more enjoyment than I ever got out of Shadow and Boom.

06 wasn't that bad, heck even Somecallmejohnny said he likes it.

>Super Monkey Ball had semi-realistic but also fun and exaggerated ball physics
>F-Zero GX had tight action at blistering speeds with loop-de-loops and other cool scenery
>Both were built on the same engine
SEGA missed a trick, if they stopped sucking Sonic Team's dick and gave Amusement Vision a chance, we could've had a game with the momentum of the 2D games and the thrills of boost gameplay all the way back in the Gamecube era. Instead, we got Shadow The Fucking Hedgehog and Sonic Heroes.

Sonic stopped being about fun in the 00's and became all about autism.

It's still kinda there and I'm convinced it'll never be autism-free until that hack Iizuka is finally shown the door.

both those games are shit though

>06 wasn't that bad
>literally the Adventure games but with all the shitty parts exaggerated and made even worse
Right.

Adventure 2 is still the best sonic game

>le contrarian maymay
Assuming you're not just shitposting, I'll ignore it anyway. The point was not about how fun they were, but about how SEGA had an engine capable of high speeds and accurate/interesting physics as early as 2001.

Good list, I'd put SA2 higher (lower?) personally

it's one of the worst desu

Adventure 2 is mediocre at best. They didn't know what the fuck they were doing in that era.

It's a pile of unfocused shit with a topping of cringey cutscenes for autistic 12-year olds. Jack of a trades, master of none. And that's an understatement.

You can't deny that Sonic and Shadow levels were amazing, the bosses were the best in the series and the story was pretty good. And don't forget that OST

>the story was pretty good

They were decent for the time, but that's only a small portion of the fucking game.
Next you're gonna say that the chao garden makes the entire game worthwhile.

Not that user, but there was literally nothing wrong with the story of either of the Adventures. The PROBLEMS were
>Poor voice direction, especially in anything but Japanese
>Really bad camera changes in many of the cutscenes, it's jarring as fuck
>Many lines seemed to have been translated direct from Japanese or something and made no sense even in context
>The story, in SA2 at least, was often just used as an excuse to switch characters and make you play as Knuckles or some shit when you just wanted to speed around
People always poke fun at the Adventures for being too serious or grimdark but they really honestly weren't. They had some serious moments but also had their fair share of jokes, lighthearted sections, and general character dialog. Plus, Adventure actually directly followed on from the classics and Adventure 2 followed on nicely from Adventure 1. If I had to describe Sonic's plot from Sonic 2 up through to Adventure 2, I'd compare it to a shonen series like Dragon Ball/Z. It worked precisely because they combined jokey lighthearted exchanges and characters with the occasional unironic serious section, and played it straight for the most part.

Basically, the plots of the Adventures are fine on paper, if they had the voice and cutscene direction of the more recent games but without the cringeworthy new dialog then it'd work really well.

You must have been very young when you played that game. The story is rife with the worst of anime clichés, done even more hamfistedly. Only a very young child would find it enjoyable.

Are you forgetting the whole bit about Eggman's grandfather creating some kind of vaguely "ultimate" lifeform to get revenge on humanity because a secret government institution shot his granddaughter to death?

That shit reads like a bad fanfiction and plays out even worse. It doesn't need to be full on "no plot at all" like Mario, but anything beyond Sonic Unleashed levels of plot seriousness or complexity is too much for something like Sonic.

Doesn't that guy draw futa?

Keep telling yourself that

Reminds me of how Dark Souls 2 got a free pass from reviewers who basically ignored the first game until it blew up.

It's not even the best Adventure.

>Are you forgetting the whole bit about Eggman's grandfather creating some kind of vaguely "ultimate" lifeform to get revenge on humanity because a secret government institution shot his granddaughter to death?
Sonic 3 & Knuckles was about Eggman crashing his Death Star into Laputa: Castle In The Sky and manipulating the last Echidna (whos species had been slaughtered centuries prior by an ancient evil "dragon" according to the manual) into fighting with Sonic, all of which eventually culminates in Sonic turning Super Saiyan and beating the shit out of Eggman in space. Sonic literally uses the word "bastard" in the Japanese manuals of Sonic 2 (and the Sonic 2 manual actually explains the exctinction of the Echidnas in a bit of detail). Sonic CD shows in great detail various different dystopias that have been fucked up by Eggman. And this is all to say nothing of the edgy plots of the non canon stuff like the Sonic OVA and AoSTH.

I mean, I get where you're coming from, but I really feel like Sonic was always trying to be that edgy, they just didn't have the technology to pull it off back in the Genesis days.

>they just didn't have the technology to pull it off back in the Genesis days
I feel like this gets brought up a lot when some of the cancer brought on by the new cancer standardized by the new Sonic games comes up.

Yeah, they would have bogged the game down with this shit if the technology of the day allowed for it. No, that doesn't make it a good idea. From Sonic having a human romance to Sonic saying constant one-liners, that shit just wouldn't hold up today, so it's a blessing in disguise that they didn't have the means or interest to implement that shit. The classics are better off because of it.

>I really feel like Sonic was always trying to be that edgy, they just didn't have the technology to pull it off back in the Genesis days.

So you're saying the only thing that made Sonic good was the limitations of the technology of the time?

Makes sense, actually.

I am so fucking tired of seeing newfags like you fuck up the Candle Jack joke. You have to say his entire name before he gets y

>So you're saying the only thing that made Sonic good was the limitations of the technology of the time?
In a way, yes. For example, people cite voice acting and the presence of humans as bad things about modern Sonic. I don't personally understand the beef with either, but they gave Sonic a voice as soon as they could (in CD and the cartoons) and humans had always existed in the SegaSonic canon, as it took place in a Sonicized version of the real world.

If we ignore the gameplay entirely, I feel like many of the things that made the Sonic world, canon and brand a success were outcomes of limitations of the era, combined with good luck.