Let's discuss this title

Hyrule Warriors?

What's there to discuss? Haven't we discussed everything we can about this game? If someone can give me something in this game worth discussing about that hasn't already been spoken about to death, then sure, we can have a discussion.

OP here

I do think it's overrated.

Basically it's good for its audience (6 years old as Brentalfloss would say) but it just doesn't do it for 14+ years olds.

What do you all think?

Meh. I don't typically buy Dynasty Warriors games.

Plus, I don't like any of Nintendo's other series. Only reason I buy Nintendo consoles is for Monster Hunter.

I know that makes me sound like a Sony or MS fanboy, but I'm not.

>Zelda
>Unparalleled atmosphere
Nope.

I was trying to make it so my post wouldn't get shit on by all the Nintendo spergelords here.

Truth is, though, that the N64 Zelda games do have incredible atmosphere.

It's not overrated at all. OOT deserves the amount of praise it receives. What do you mean it's good for its audience? (I have no idea who the hell brentalfloss is) Do you mean in terms of gameplay or in terms of content?

Kids will like the explore factor, older kids and adults?

Not really

Was OoT the most culturally significant game of the 90's?

>Let me level Link up
Hello underage

I'm twenty-five.

a six year old wouldn't figure out how to get the sword...

Ok game but a little boring and repetitive, massively over-hyped by nostalgiafags whose parents were too poor to buy a ps1 so had to play nintenshit games.

THIS

>overhype's by nostalgiafags
>On its INITIAL Nintendo 64 release, Ocarina of Time received perfect review scores from the majority of gaming publications that reviewed it, including Famitsu, Edge, Electronic Gaming Monthly, GameSpot, and IGN.

wat?

>discuss
ok then
Majora's Mask is better

No u wrong m8

nu-uh m8

It's shit.

OOT and MM were the last good zelda games made by nintendo

its been a long fucking time. I don't even understand why people give this brand so much recognition. Its produced so much disappointing titles compared to quality ones. The only good zelda games are:
>Link to the Past
>Link's Awakening
>Ocarina of Time
>Majora's Mask

meanwhile theres like 20 other shit games in the series. Link's crossbow training? LOL. Hyrule warriors? kek

they keep trying to put on the presentation of a big epic adventure again like wind waker and BotW and twilight princess, but EVERY SINGLE TIME its just a hollow shell full of filler content and an empty overworld with nothing to do. Wind waker has to be the biggest offender, even worse than TP, where like 70% of the content was copy/pasted and fetch quests. Meanwhile SS didn't even TRY to have an overworld

I had more fun playing Dead Rising 3, and that's saying something, because that's an empty sack of shit that's a soulless husk of the series.

EH REH

>implying OoT didn't have a big, empty overworld with nothing to do
user please, take off the nostalgia glasses before talking shit about the newer games

and for the sake of argument, OoT's overworld has about a dozen useful things in it namely a couple heart pieces, half a dozen gold skulltulas, giant poes as adult, and the running man as child.

How is WW shit?

>bought wii zapper for house of the dead
>crossbow training came with it for free

pretty good imo

OoT's overworld wasn't just hyrule field, its everything connecting the towns and dungeons.
take wind waker for example, the great sea isn't the entire overworld, all the islands are included aside from the towns and forsaken fortress (since its a dungeon)

OoT actually had a very large and sprawling overworld with lots of variety.
>Hyrule Field
>Kokiri Forest
>Lost Woods
>Lake Hylia
>Hylia River
>Zora's Domain
>Jabu's Lake
>Death Mountain
>Death Mountain Crater
>Gerudo Gorge
>Gerudo Fortress
>Forsaken Wasteland
>Desert Colossus

OOT was one of the greatest games ever made. It had drawbacks due to technological limitations but it's still one of the top 5 games ever made. To say otherwise is just silly.

But is that slice any good?

>how to ruin zelda

> One of the best games ever made in the history of gaming.
spotted the 15year old gamer gurl.

a huge chunk of the islands are copy/pasted filler:
>5 fairy islands
>4 empty archipelagos
>6 reefs
>3 triangle islands
greatfish island and its dungeon were cut in development
fire mountain dungeon was cut in development
ice mountain dungeon was cut in development
the remaining dungeons were the worst in the entire series with their escort missions
another two dungeons were just recycling by making you redo earlier content a second time
the items were copy/pasted from OOT/MM with almost nothing new
the combat was complete shit and trivialized
the last 1/3 of the game was nonstop fetch quests to pad out gameplay length

OoT was our generation's Iliad and the Odyssey, so yes.

>aside from the towns
>proceeds to list Kokiri Forest, Gerudo Fortress, and Zora's Domain
user please

Also OoT's overworld includes only the areas where the day/night cycle actually moves.

kokiri forest might be a town, gerudo fortress and zora's domain can't really be called towns, theres like 3 nongeneric NPCs in zora's domain, even death mountain has that many and the day/night cycle moves there

>Also OoT's overworld includes only the areas where the day/night cycle actually moves.
but user the day/night cycle moves in gerudo fortress
checkmate

If you actually listen to Darunia and go get the Magic Meter when he tells you and don't wait until you're an adult like I know most of you do, cause you like to rebel, IF you go when he says and don't stop. Then afterward talk to Kaepora Gaebora and accept his flight down to town; you will be in Kakariko during the graveyard tour hours.

Nintendo made this game down to a science. It is their greatest masterpiece. The miracle of 1998. Nothing will ever touch it.

GOAT
/thread.

>WAHH WHY ZELDA IS NOT LIKE MUH DUARRK SOUULZZZ???!!
kys

Spotted the contrarian faggot

Did you preorder Infinite Warfare through digital download or are you getting a physical copy?

>poor camera
>20fps and below
>have to hit pause each time you want to equip an item

3DS version is infinitely superior

no it doesn't
learn your OoT technical, fag

I've liked every LoZ game I've ever played. I haven't played them all, but I have played a fair amount.

I don't get this whole "game war" nonsense that happens in every LoZ thread. It's the only series that I can think of that has it to this extent - with souls being the only other thing that comes close

You talk like a 12 year old.

See how we can tell you're under-aged?

>ps1
>the original no gaems machine
guaranteed replies.

>and unparalleled atmosphere

Zelda stopped having unparalleled atmosphere after WW.

Now they're just forgettable trash. Fuck, SS and even the upcoming BoTW remind me more of Mario than they do of Zelda.

I would argue that the last good game was TP. Not fantastic or great, but it was at least decent.

Been shit ever since though. Nintendo doesn't want to put in real effort to make Zelda into a lasting adventure. Also Aonuma is just a yes-man and a hack for Miyamoto, who's now washed out.

Final Fantasy gets it too. More specifically FF7 and just like FF7 and OOT are generally regarded as the best in the series they also draw the most contrarians. If you say FF7 or OOT is the best in the series you either get "babbies first Zelda/FF" or get accused of wearing nostalgia goggles.

you do realize the n64 ran at 60fps, right? The only points there were slow down were if there were multiple bombs and bombchus on screen or when you killed a stalfos. Tryinng to emulate ocarina of time on other consoles (Original xbox, psp, raspberry pi) is a prime example that the game must be played at 50 frames or higher

TP is proof that making a game LOOK like its epic scale and have a huge overworld isn't the same as actually creating an epic game with a huge overworld
TP was a colossal failure

One of the worst games I've ever played. I had to drop it multiple times from boredom and only reluctantly went back to finish just so I could say I finished it and shit on it with legitimacy.

And I know this is a continuation of the last thread and the same gay little fuckers are in here defending their shit game.

>

>So you want to critically discuss OoT without any claims because "people have already said it"

No I don't want to critically discuss it if I don't have to you stupid fuck. The last thread literally started with a fucking video that went over a whole range of fucking criticisms. Why do you want me to reiterate the same fucking shit? OoT is one of the most discussed games in history, yet every time you stupid shithead fucking faggots act like any criticism is brand fucking new and you have no idea what anyone is talking about when someone shits on the game. Or you act like unless it's a thesis level debate, it's not worthy and it's just parroting Ego's video.

You people are the worst fucking fanbase on this site.

>

>You don't know your own fucking arguments

Oh wow huh because I wont take time out of my day to write up a fucking essay on why a game I played fucking years ago and hated is shit, I don't know my own arguments, despite the fact that the arguments I alluded to in my initial response where right fucking there in the OP's fucking video and I was merely agreeing with them and stating I thought this when I played the game too.

Why should I have to rewrite ego's script out in my own words. Any other fanbase on this site knows what you are talking about when you say "X game is bad/not that great because of Y element" yet faggots from fanbases in pic related freak out and want fucking peer reviewed articles. I fucking hate you faggots and you try to deflect criticism by using logical fallacy's and mob mentality to discourage people from rightful shitting on your terrible overrated bad video game.

>you do realize the n64 ran on 60fps, right?
The N64 did, but not OoT and MM

both N64 Zeldas run at 20 FPS. lag occured because the N64 lacked the power to render so many polygons and/or particle effects at once fluidly. Stalfos gibs were the prime offender, but many ingame cutscenes acted the same way.
Did you know that the tower collapse cutscene was so laggy, that they synced the sound up to the lag to compensate? If OoT ran laglessly, like it does on the chinese iQue, the cutscene and sound would desync because the cutscene is progressing faster than the sound due to lack of lag.

As for running in 50FPS, try the PAL version, though you will be called inferior for doing so.

also many other n64 titles ran at 20 or 30FPS

Also, Arin Hanson is a fucking retard.

The game was made for 20 fps in mind. You dont even notice how low it is

>Dis nigga never played ALBW

ALBW was cool, but the idea of having to buy your items to keep them after dying disgusts me.

Nearly every game after TP was a colossal failure. Skyward Sword is the biggest failure of them all so far. I'm certain BoTW will follow suit.

TP was fantastic, you old men are hot garbage

the temple of time isn't a gameplay mechanic first off. Second, "Temple of Time" is a shit subtitle that would more likely be used by a shitty fan-game.

the ocarina is a unique gameplay mechanic (for the time) and has relevance to the game's plot. It's used to open the temple and access the sword, you constantly use it to teleport (plot-wise, Sheik teaches you all the songs throughout) and finally, the ending where Zelda uses it to send Link back in time.

Dungeons were great, most of the bosses were good, Midna was a memorable sidekick/character and that's it.

It fell apart in everything else after that.

Nah, BotW is going to come out and since PewDiePie wants it and even Dark Souls twitter is endorsing it, it will become a big Youtube sensation to stream Let's Plays. Every Let's Player worth his salt is going to buy it, even non-Nintendo fans at that point (probably on NX or a bundle Wii U). Then non-Nintendo casuals who watch those Let's Plays. And of course, every Zelda game already has 3 million fans who go out and buy the console games guaranteed. The influx of all these people vying for it will mean the game will sell out instantly, becoming the new Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Other developers will look and say "SHEE-it, mang. Our game suck ass. What can we do to make a game this good, with this much hype?" They will then proceed to rip-off the game but fail at everything because they won't be able to produce a physics engine as good, or a gameplay system as tight and engaging as Zelda's.

Like usual.

Overrated. Worse than most 2D Zeldas. Worse than Kingdom Hearts. Worse than Dark Souls.

>plays a puzzle game
>ugh why are there puzzles this game sucks!

I am curious what you think about the combat system though, and how you feel it could be improved.

If you say let the player level up, you're retarded. That doesn't change anything, it just provides grinding filler.

How isn't anybody responding to this valid criticism?

One of the best structured games ever. Would make any engineer happy to play.

>shit sux bro
>valid criticism

So if you guys would recommend this to someone who hasn't played it before, would you recommend the 3DS version or the original?

>mfw I almost exclusivly play old video games and rarely touch new shit
>basically living in the 90's and early 2000's for the last 6 years
>my views of old games are completely uninfluenced by either nostalgia, comparison to contemporary games, or claiming they are to old/aged to be played since I am immersed in the era of the time as if I went through a time machine
>whenever I play a game I give it a rating of how much I liked it and note it down in a notepad

And all that said, Ocarina of Time is fucking shit. Checking my reviews notepad I see it's at number 259 (out of about 300 games completed) and I gave it a 1 star review (out of 5).

It really pales in comparison to it's contemporaries and even predecessors.

In 1998 alone there were a ton of better games released. 1998 in fact was one of the best years for gaming ever, how this unremarkable nintendo title even managed to get remembered among the hordes of good titles that came out that year is weird. I think it's probably because it's the first time that insulated console children got to experience open world, even though OoT is more barren and barebones than games that came before it.

Fallout 2
Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus
Half Life
Unreal
SiN
Star Wars Dark Forces 2: Mysteries of the Sith
Thief: The Dark Project
Resident Evil 2
Metal Gear Solid
Spyro the Dragon
Tekken 3
Crash Bandicoot 3

All these games released the same year, all better than OoT. I think the only game I've played from 1998 that OoT was better than is Point Blank, and it's arguable, the games are basically on par quality wise.

Literally nobody waited to get the magic meter until they were an adult, faggot.

Because they have no arguments against it.

It was a criticism of the retarded fucking fanbase and their argument tactics, not the game itself. You people are worse than your game.

But none of those games are a 3D open world game like OoT. Console gamers already had plenty of open world games on previous consoles, they were based on the original Zelda you underage moron.

just to be clear, are you saying those games you listed all have better open world gameplay than Ocarina of Time?

I'm not disagreeing or anything, I hate to admit it but I'm a nintendo babby. I have no cash so I've never been around systems that weren't nintendo consoles, but I've always wanted to (and still want to) play other games like Half-life, Metal Gear Solid, etc.

Also how's Spyro the Dragon? I only know it as "some kind of platformer."

*tips*

I feel the same way though and I'm 43. The original Zelda was good because it was during the original D&D craze. Ultima had come out a year earlier and was the better game, but kids who got NESes for Christmas never knew about it. It was the Sears Family crowd vs the Radioshack (who sold computers back then) crowd.

ALTTP was the only game to capture my attention and it was how I got my first console. But at that point, 1991, PC started getting discs allowing for much better looking and more complicated games. This was when TES and Fallout came about, along with the better Ultima games.

Zelda would be better serviced as an RPG, that's clearly what the game pretends to be. But it's more of an action-adventure game, like what TES and Fallout became. Normal people lap it up.

yeah I did, its called A Link to the Past
sorry nintendo, repackaging old games doesn't count as making a new one

Its been long enough we can all agree that SS was a better game than TP, because while both were deeply flawed and horribly mismanaged, SS had more redeeming qualities and potential than TP. TP was just trying to be OOT and failing, whereas SS at least had a compelling gimmick and worldbuilding even if it failed to deliver on that gimmick and world.

What did TP have to stand out? The wolf gimmick was garbage. The wiimote waggle was embarrassing. Like SS, it had a 2 hour long boring exposition. But SS had an interesting combat mechanism, it just gave you only about 5 fights in the whole game that were well done with it. SS had a better visual theme and storyline. Neither did the zelda overworld right, TP had a massive empty expanse where SS had none at all, just on the rails handhold puzzles over every inch of terrain, no exploration in either game.

They both were bad games, but TP was worse

ALttP and ALBW aren't actually the same game. If you actually played them you might know that.

>TP bosses were good
worst in the entire series
TP featured such awesome bosses as
>Morpheel, who literally never even tries to attack, it just swims around in a circle waiting for you to kill it
and
>Argorok, who sits afk for 30 seconds between each attack that would never hit you unless you were afk for those 30 seconds
and
>Armogohma, god what were they thinking

>b-b-but only 80% of the game was copy/pasted from ALTTP
>LOOK YOU CAN GO 3D ON WALLS XDDDD
strip everything that was ALTTP out of ALBW and you're left with nothing good
there were actually nintencucks insisting it had the best soundtrack ever when it did a guitar remix of the dark world theme

I never said any of the titles I listed were open world. I was just listing stuff I'd played.

Stuff like Daggerfall was out way before OoT anyways. So if your only plus is "it's open world but 3D" then you are admitting graphical gimmicks are the selling point of your game, which makes sense why it's aged so fucking bad it had nothing else going for it.

Even if you want to go for other 3D games that had large, openish or hub based levels, System Shock had that in 1994.

No I wasn't saying that. I mean Tekken 3 is listed there and that's a 3D fighting game.

At least you seem decent unlike a lot of other nintenbabbies who are obnoxious. I actually like a lot of the Nintendo consoles I own, I just don't like the fanbase much.

Spyro the Dragon is pretty good. It is a platformer with a glide mechanic since you play as a Dragon, so a lot of the platforms are spaced far apart with a large degree of verticality in the level design. The art and music are really amazing too and the game is comfy as fuck. Setting takes a lot of inspiration from old Zoroastrian magi. It's mechanically sound and the sequels fix a lot of small problems, but also add mini games and arguably the atmosphere took a small hit in the sequels too since they went in a different direction. The trilogy is still absolutely solid though.

Daggerfall and System Shock aren't fully 3D games, nor are they third person action games. Take a look at third person action games from that era to really see the gap OoT created.

Literally nothing was copy/pasted because the models are all 3D. As you said, even the music was remixed.

If anything, LBW is very similar to Lttp, because it basically uses/builds on the game's art style, and has a map that's also similar in structure (areas are typically all in the same place for the most part). But it's not the same game at all. It only looks like it on the surface.

Well OoT isn't truly open world either. It has a large and empty field. All the other areas connecting to it need a loading zone to get there, and are basically just regular levels like any other game aside from the field.

I know Grand Theft Auto 1 came out in 1997, and while it is a top down game with sprites, the city itself is rendered in 3D, and it's probably larger than the field in OoT.

I know it's not open world, but for a 3rd person action game, Dark Forces 2 in 1997 also had some quite large levels though they were more labyrinthine for the most part.

Majoras Mask is basically "Atmosphere: The Game".

Ah ok. You're right that you never outright stated it, but the way it was worded seemed to imply those games were all 3D open world games, I was a bit confused when I saw Abe's Exoddus and yeah, Tekken like you said, etc.

I guess I have to ask. When you say Ocarina is barebones compared to the games you listed (I think that's the comparison you were making?). I guess I think it's unfair because those aren't games in the same genre as Ocarina of Time. That is to say, it's totally possible that what Oot does in its own genre is bare compared to what the other games all did for their own genres. But I feel like that's not a good comparison to make or something.

I mean I think most people agree that Ocarina of Time was a very "new" thing for its time. I think that's what people were looking for, even if it's not the best designed game in its genre by today's standards.

Not saying you're wrong to not enjoy Oot, but from my understanding the game did influence many games that came afterwards, for the *specific* adventure and gameplay it provided.

It remains culturally significant, but it's not exactly a special game anymore. To this day, it remains a solid experience, but it's more just a forerunner for 3D adventure games. Its unique qualities have been emulated or surpassed in many other titles, even within the same series.

One could say it's amazing within its time, but that's just it. Ocarina of Time is Cro-Magnon 3D Adventure. Early, well-done, but it's no longer unique or special beyond being the first notable venture into the genre.

Pretty much this. I still enjoy it, but of course there are some flaws/barren moments here and there.

I will say though, I think the game design aspect of it is important. That is, in terms of working with what it had, I think the game is very solidly designed even by today's standards, despite being a lot more barren compared to games of today. If there's anything I really want developers to pick up on, it's that solid gameplay design, not the specific mechanics, but just the overall design of it.

Although maybe not in terms of the tutorials/advice...

would you like me to repeat what I just said?

>It was a criticism of the retarded fucking fanbase and their argument tactics, not the game itself. You people are worse than your game.
>One of the worst games I've ever played

recreating an old game with new graphics =/= making a new game

same overworld, same quest line, same areas, same dungeons, same bosses, same enemies, same everything

thats like claiming that OOT 3D was a new game just because it was done with new 3d remastered models instead of copy/pasting the old ones

>same quest line, same areas, same dungeons, same bosses, same enemies, same everything
None of these are true, but clearly you know better seeing how you never played it.

Alright I see your point and sums it up nicely.

I do remember thinking it was significant when I played it as well, as a first for a very large 3D overworld and an adventure title. I just didn't think it was that great, even for the time I don't think it was that great outside of being a technological landmark.

If you have ever played Giants: Citizen Kabuto, that is kinda the same. That is fully 3D open world and released in 2000. I can see the blueprints of G:CK in many many games that followed it, and the same is true for OoT, but I think both original games themselves were kinda lacklustre in some ways. They were some of the early explorers so they have kinks that had yet to be sorted to.

I think OoT had some good bits here and there, but I think it was too long of a game, and to empty of an overworld, and to much padding due to this. Some other parts that I didn't like are due to my taste as well that I wont go into. But the same is true for Giants, some parts are good, but it has lots of flaws too, but what it did had not been done before.

I guess you could say the same for Half Life starting the whole linear shooter with a story thing too. If you go back and play that now with no knowledge of how FPS was before that, you will think it's just a modern shooter with bad graphics and wonder what is significant about it.

OoT's pacing is one of its finer and more underrated aspects, imo. Game had god-tier pacing throughout.

>same everything
you realize you said before that the game had remixed music and a new 3D mechanic that lets you walk on walls right?

in which game do seek out the pendants of courage / power / wisdom from the 3 early dungeons like eastern dungeon and tower of hera, then travel to the dark world where you rescue the sages from turtle rock, skull woods, swamp palace, dark palace, desert palace, thieves hideout, ice palace, etc, fighting hyrule soldiers, armos statues, blobs, freezors, lynels, popos, moblins, zirros, zazaks, etc?
the game with bosses like moldorm and arrghus, a blind thief and lizard king and ganon as a final boss?

Clearly not if you are able to sequence break the dungeons with no particular change in pacing.

That's completely valid. I'm sure there are other people who didn't like Oot when it first came out too. Yeah fortunately I think I'm ok with seperating games for being "of their time." So if I ever play Half-life I will definitely try to look at it for what it was at the time. Being blind to what a game brought to the table for being archaic compared to today is kind of a fear of mine.

Oh I liked the pacing too, just not the owl's interruptions. Navi's too, but she wasn't as bad as the owl to me, despite her being the poster child of bad tutorial helper characters.

I also didn't like the unskippable cutscenes. However I feel they would be hugely remedied if they even just let you control the dialog boxes, instead of having to wait for every single word.

Alttp.

Thats a mark in its favor not against it. It had a couple forks in its dungeon paths that let you mix it up, but they were both occupying the same spot in the interest curve so it smoothly ramped along proper pacing. Having good pacing AND branching paths is something most games can't do, either you're on rails the whole game or its an open world with horrible pacing

sorry that was ALBW
in ALTTP you get the pendant form the desert palace instead of the sage, in ALBW the sage comes from the desert palace and you get handed 1 free pendant
good try though you had 50:50 chance

Sequence breaking the dungeons in Ocarina of Time (and some other zelda games) is interesting to me.

I think what they do is to have a clearly intended order, but despite Navi's constant urging, the game doesn't completely force players on that path. Also, I think it should be noted that some sequence breaks are only possible by going in the dungeons in order, but not actually beating them. For example, you need bombs from the 2nd dungeon so you can blow up the rocks that block the path to zoras domain. You can beat Jabu-Jabu's belly without beating Dodongo's Cavern, but you'd have to enter Dodongo's Cavern, get the bombs, and then exit before beating it first.

From my understanding, even the sequence breaking is cleverly paced because it's really only the last few dungeons that you can truly do "out of order" without having to visit the dungeons that came before it.

In other words, the games are different then?

>Being blind to what a game brought to the table for being archaic compared to today is kind of a fear of mine.

Same here honestly. I really really love video games as a whole, and want to get as broad of an experience of them as I possibly can, and to see the history of how the genre's emerged and changed and how earlier games influenced later games.

But I know I've gone and played old games and been turned off by it's age before or I didn't see what was so significant about it since a lot of things had copied it since. Thankfully it happens rarer now but it did happen a bit when I first started really getting into old games years back.

I know the significance of Ico went over my head when I first played it, and it took me a while to get into Half Life and see why it was so big. When I started I thought it was just a generic shooter. I still enjoyed it though, but my first few hours were a bit disappointing.

I did think OoT was quite significant for a console title in 1998 technologically, but I think it's one of the games that I didn't enjoy much despite being a landmark game. Though there were bits here and there which I loved like that sandstorm in the desert, finding fairies and shrines hidden in caves and wells.

don't you get the pendant from Zelda?

the sequence breaking that doesn't kill pacing is just the intended ones
if you go down the normal branching paths its
deku tree -> dodongo cavern -> jabu jabu
-> forest temple
-> fire temple OR water temple -> the other
->bottom of the well
-> shadow temple OR desert colossus -> the other
-> ganons castle

doing it in any different order is where the pacing would be wonky, like killing 3 bosses in a row while backtracking endlessly, or not being able to progress because you used exploits to sequence break

like you can memorize the haunted wasteland and go through it with no lens of truth, or bombflip into the shadow temple

>>the games are 99% the same
>>but 1% different
>In other words, the games are different then?

if that were the case, and the games were only 1% different, then yes, they'd be different.

But what you're doing is just using tunnel vision to only see the stuff that's similar. You didn't mention Ravio at all, you didn't mention how the sages are all different and not just the same sprites/models, you didn't mention the different villagers in Kakariko, the catchable golden bee, the streetpass game, Yuga, Hilda, new items like the sand rod, the fact that the bosses all play out differently, even when they are the same boss characters as before, the dungeons having completely different layouts, the new item-meter, the maiamais... the list goes on.

All the possible branches with no glitching or leaving dungeons before killing the boss, from Gamefaqs:

*Forest, Fire, and Water must all 3 be done before Shadow (so that the Karkariko cutscene occurs)

*Forest and Water must be done before Spirit (since you need the longshot from Water to cross the wasteland, and the Song of Time from after Forest for turning into Young Link to get Wasteland and the Well (for the Lens))

*To learn how to skip the 2 keys in the Water Temple that need Arrows see post #6 in this thread:

gamefaqs.com/boards/997842-the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d/62341022

*To learn how to do the 2 jumps in Spirit Temple that seem to need the Hover Boots see post #2 below. (I don't want to put it here because it's actually fun to figure out, it's a spoiler.)

So, if I count correctly, there are 14 possible Adult Link dungeon orders.

_01__Forest - Fire - Water - Shadow - Spirit_
_02__Forest - Fire - Water - Spirit - Shadow_
_03__Forest - Water - Fire - Shadow - Spirit_
_04__Forest - Water - Fire - Spirit - Shadow_
_05__Forest - Water - Spirit - Fire - Shadow_
_06__Fire - Forest - Water - Shadow - Spirit_
_07__Fire - Forest - Water - Spirit - Shadow_
_08__Fire - Water - Forest - Shadow - Spirit_
_09__Fire - Water - Forest - Spirit - Shadow_
_10__Water - Forest - Fire - Shadow - Spirit_
_11__Water - Forest - Fire - Spirit - Shadow_
_12__Water - Forest - Spirit - Fire - Shadow_
_13__Water - Fire - Forest - Shadow - Spirit_
_14__Water - Fire - Forest - Spirit - Shadow_

>its 1% different, its 5% different!
yeah okay

the water temple need the bow to complete without doing glitches or next to impossible jumps.
you CAN do them out of order with those tricks, but thats glitchy sequence breaking rather than branching paths. You're supposed to need the bow to complete those temples same as you're supposed to need to be teleported into the shadow temple to access it instead of bombjumping out of bounds

>Not just posting the definitive Matthewmatosis review

youtube.com/watch?v=k_VH3R1luEA

I didn't know about not requiring arrows for the water temple... or even the fire temple for that matter. Were there not any of those eyeball things in the fire temple?

I think it's a much better percentage than 5%, but what's your clear-cut percent number that means a game is truly different or not?

*bigger* not "better"

a game that just recycles another games content and remakes it with new graphics and slightly changes a few aspects isn't a new game
its not building upon the world of ALTTP or using it as a backdrop for a new game, its just recycling its content. Theres not enough new material to call it its own game

I never said LBW was a completely new game. You're right that content is recycled (specifically, rebuilt, not just copy/pasted). But not only does the game build on said mechanics that return, they even alter their behavior in sometimes subtle ways.

From a purely surface level lttp is a strictly 2D game and LBW is a 3D game. They took advantage of that by including the walk-on-walls sytem, which would be impossible to do on SNES. So that alone is a major difference. It's not even based on any mechanics that Lttp had, so it's impossible for it to be just a "slight change." There was nothing for it to have been a slight change from. It's literally new material that the entire game bases many of its dungeon and overworld obstacles off of.

Just found out a couple days ago that you can play this game with friends but everyone can levitate so it's not fun

If it were to be perfected to the point where everyone has to solve shit to progress then it would be pretty damn fun.

1 or 2 new mechanics while the whole overworld most of the dungeons and enemies are shared =/= new game
you can't rehash that much content and call it a different game

Is the 3ds masterquest worth playing?

its a whole new game, one of the best in the series
lots of new content and mechanics makes it an entirely different game than the n64 OOT, its got new 3d graphics and everything

What makes LBW interesting to me is the fact that it takes all those old aspects and makes them generally play out differently. For example tower of hera having the red/blue wall switch puzzles, but offering a new spin on them by combining it with the walk-on-walls mechanic. This allowed for completely new puzzles, even if it utilized old mechanics.

That's what makes the game different, not completely new, which I never stated, but different enough to stand out as its own thing. I could go through and compare all the differences and unique spins that LBW puts on old concepts, (besides just pointing out the new content) but at this point I figure it won't make a difference. It looks to me like all you're ever going to pay attention to is the stuff that's similar. Even when you admit that the game has new mechanics, you somehow still think it's the same game as Lttp, which just makes no sense.

Ocarina of Time is so non-controversial I don't know what there is to discuss. It's a good game that shows some minor or superficial dating, and which has been built upon in other titles since to the effect that it might seem simplistic. It's still a good game and a crucial piece of its genre's history.

just an fyi, the master quest is the same as the masterquest released before.

if you're talking about the 3DS game in general, the differences are just having new 3D graphics (I heard they had to build them from the ground up) having smoother controls with getting to select stuff from the touch screen (iron boots are now an item) and color coding parts of the water temple to make it easier to keep track of where certain rooms are.

As for master quest, the differences there are that everything is mirrored, it's harder (hearts drop rarely, enemies are stronger I think) and the dungeon layouts are different. I really enjoyed the new dungeons, I almost see them as parodies of themselves.

Ironically, A Link to the Past WOULD have been a good name for OoT. Instead it got blown nonsensically on a game with no time travel.

Why don't we try ranking Zelda names in terms of usefulness?

High Tier:
Wind Waker
Oracles
Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess
Four Swords
Minish Cap

Mid Tier:
Ocarina of Time
LoZ
Spirit Tracks
Phantom Hourglass
Skyward Sword

Low Tier:
Zelda II: Adventure of Link

As much as this would get my dick to apocaplyptically unravel to its true, megalithic extent - and as much as I'm hoping Breath will do just this - surely there's a lot of other action RPGs that just do this?

Yuck.

Why WAS Lttp called that anyway? At first I thought the Dark World was like a bad future version of hyrule, but now that I think about it, didn't it exist more as an alternate dimension?

>Let me level Link up.

90s Nintendo censorship combined with 90s attitude era marketing changed the subtitle from the Japanese original "Triforce of the Gods" to one with a pun and a vague connection to the story.

To be fair, Link himself never actually leveled up, technically. But he did gain experience, and you could level up his attack, magic, or health. I guess the effect is basically the same, but I always thought that was interesting.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting about the japanese name. What was LBW called in Japanese?

>I heard they had to build them from the ground up
a number of models are just ported with no improvements what so ever or very little.
the entire game itself is just a port with improvements here and there.

>horrid graphics style
No thanks. Only the ability ot redo bosses gives 3DS any edge.

you only need the spirit and shadow medallions to get the rainbow bridge to appear. You can get the shadow medallion by using the bean stalk

Triforce of the Gods II.

>same exact style
>just more polys
>"horrid style"
Don't ever change, Cred Forums

That's a huge credit. The fact that I did the Water and Spirit Temples before the Fire Temple on my first playthrough is pretty damn special on reflection.

I don't believe that there were any models that were imported with no differences. Unless what you mean is that they had original higher-quality models that they imported to the 3DS version.

I mean the characters and enemies are all exactly the same, but don't all of the 3DS models have higher polygon counts than the 64 versions?

Really To the first claim I mean, the second seems quite rudimentary

I like the 3DS version more but I actually kind of agree with him. Something about the 3DS models are "too clean" Not sure what it is exactly but Kid link for example just looks really weird to me in the 3DS version.

How old where you when yo ufirst travelled underground and killed King Zora?

General shoddy conceptualising and planning, plus NoA had a hateboner for religious references. So Triforce of the Gods was right out.

>different shading, colour intensity, bordering
>different iris design and facial layouts
>ganondorf's face is soft rather than sharp
>"exact same style"
Change, faggot.

They could have all received improvements, but they were all of varying quality, and none received improvements equal to those of major characters like Link, Ganondorf, or the Sages.

And there were models imported that received no improvements at all, but they're unused.

addendum: unless they're cubes and things like that.

>same exact style
>better hardware allows it to look better
>"horrid style"
change yourself

What the hell?
10/10 game.
Those graphics, music, level design and combat, they're perfect.

>lies
Stay the same.

Oh ok. I just saw on tcrf that unused models from the original are in Oot3D. That makes me think that they did take the old models and improve on them, because I remember things like skulltulas, deku scrubs, etc all generally seeming rounder/smoother. However it's entirely possible that a large part of that is just updated textures too, so now I'm not so sure.

Purely conjecture here, but I can imagine the "too clean" look of the game may then come from the artists following the original models "too closely." So they could've taken the original models, and essentially just provided an "HD skin" to them, rather than say, paying attention to some design decisions that may have been done to get the lower poly models to work better. Kinda hard to explain, but at the very least, I believe the game's models try to follow the artwork more. I remember Gohma having more glowy blue spots on her, for example.

>look better

they completely utterly fucked up the Ganon fight
on the N64 it was a very low contrast dark fight that was only illuminated when the lightning flashed. Its so dark that ganon is basically fading into the shadows and nothing but two eyes and two swords

when they redid it in 3DS, they made it super high contrast and lighting so you could see everything because it was too hard to tell what you were doing on the 3ds screen. It butchered the thematics of the fight

Ahahahahahahhaahhahha

Not that guy, but that's because it would have been unplayable. OoT3D is a handheld game. By nature of their medium, portables utilize lighting differently. Also, OoT3D is more cel-shaded because follows the original artwork.

In the OG art, Ganon is a giant well-lit green monster. They stuck to that. On this note, OoT3D was a very faithful remake of OoT art direction-wise. As an artist, I couldn't think of many ways to improve upon it.

>High Tier: Four Swords
>Mid Tier: OoT
contrarian: the post.

>The Four Sword is the central item of the Four Swords series, used constantly in its application as both weapon and Link-duplicator, and creates, governs and defines the central teamwork theme of the series

>The Ocarina of Time is obtained after three dungeons and is used either as a key, a movement conveniance and a block summoner. Link's time travelling is done at the Temple of Time, and Ganon is slain with the Master Sword.

Now what am I contraring again?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

OoT deserves its praise, unlike these pieces of shit.

...

People who think they are edgy with Dark Souls has never played Planescape Torment

>Zelda II
>Low-tier
Causal faggot. I bet you died at the first encounter.

he was ranking the names of the games, not the games' quality.

>the temple of time isn't a gameplay mechanic first off.
Neither is the "Ocarina of Time". But whenever you actually do travel through time, you do it at the Temple of Time, not using the Ocarina.
At the very least in Majora's Mask it kind of made sense to call the Ocarina the Ocarina of Time since you actually regularly used it to mess with time. But in Ocarina of Time it's basically just a mcguffin that does just about anything but mess with time, until the very end of the game where it resets everything.

Thisreallyupdatedmyjournal.jpg

Why are the retard who speedreed coming out tonight?

This is an OoT thread.

It would only be bait if I said OoT was shit.

are teleportation, changing the time of day, calling on your horse, making blocks appear/disappear etc. not gameplay mechanics?

That is true though, you don't technically use the ocarina to travel through time, interestingly. But it does open up the temple of time, so I guess you could argue that without it, you wouldn't be able to travel through time. Kinda stretching it here though, it's basically just a key in that case.

You're a faggot.

This isn't bait because I didn't say Oot was a faggot. So no reason to respond, just accept it. :)

...

>posting outdated bullshit

The irony.

>the top one is barely even a game
Its perfect.

Playing songs is a mechanic. Which you could do with the regular Ocarina. Granted that it's implied that there are songs that would be powerless with another Ocarina.

But if you're going to call the Ocarina itself a mechanic instead of just the song playing specifically. Then the temple of time is most definitely a mechanic too. Since that's where you actually travel through time.

Good, but extremely overrated.

They're pretty awkward and sparse, and have little to do with musicality. Flutes have been used for summoning purposes in prior Nintendo games, but they didn't need different songs with tedious inputs for EACH spot (and indeed later games didn't either, MM and onwards). Block summoning and removal was done with the Cane of Somaria in ALttP, which was infinitely more conveniant and more dynamic as blocks could actually be moved from outside predetermined spots.

That leaves changing the time of day, changing the weather, Plot Key (Zelda's Lullaby and any non-block use of Song of Time), and Advice and Exposition No. 7456 (Saria's Song, a nice feature but precursor to the burdensome tutorialism of later Nintendo titles). Horse summoning was barely relevent to the game, and weather and time of day were gimmicks. Rolling them into one item conserves menu space, that's about it.

The Ocarina really had no emotional valency in OoT, and the lack of gameplay valency was a big part of that. Ironically the Ocarina feels way more significant in Majora's Mask, crucial to conquering the day cycle as it was.

>Cred Forumscore is [INSERT MY FAVORITE GAMES]
yeah nah famalam

The poetry.

What the fuck was his problem?

He was Muslim.

Actually , those are games hipsters pretend to like seem like an expert.

Non-hipsters acknowledge OoT is superior to all of them.

OoT is the highest rated game of all time.

Hmm. I guess you're right. I mean there is a difference in that the ocarina basically as "an extra step" in order for it to provide whatever gameplay function each individual song can provide. Thus, although the songs are said to be exclusive to only work on the Ocarina of Time, technically it's not the ocarina that performs those functions, but the songs that do so.

I would still probably say that the temple of time isn't a mechanic because it's not an item you use like the ocarina, but... that might be hypocritical or something. I'm honestly kind of confused now.

i'm gonna sing the zelda song it goes

dun duun dud dudun dun duuuuuuuun

that's it

ITT: 18 year olds born in the release year of OoT

He is everything Japs find frightening about foreigners in one.

>tall
>swarthy
>fiery ginger hair, sideburns
>huge fucking nose, ears too
>big outward eyes, light colour
>weird middle-eastern-y-ness
>swole as fuck
>mum looks like Ayn Rand

Holy shit, it's true. In a world without stereotypes and prejudice, Ganondorf wouldn't exist.

Japan's brand of xenophobia and racism is hilariously inneffectual. Let them have their cake, it's amusing.

I have no counter-arguments: the post.

You were a little kid in the 1970's. What can you remember about that time?

BUT HYRULE FIELD IS SO EMPTY AND BORING :(

What's the counter argument to this, anyway?

it's not empty, you can hunt skulltulas and poes and find hidden grottos under boulders and shit