Fixed camera

>Banjo Kazooie

Banjo isn't linear nor it has fixed camera you dumbass.

Levels in SMB1 : 33
Levels in SMB2LL: 52
Levels in SMB2USA: 20
Levels in SMB3: 64
Levels in SMW: 72
Levels in SMW2: 54
Levels in SM64: 15
Levels in SMS: 7
Levels in NSMB: 81
Levels in SMG: 42
Levels in NSMBWii: 77
Levels in SMG2: 49
Levels in SM3DL: 96
Levels in NSMB2: 94+30 DLC
Levels in NSMBU: 89
Levels in SM3DW: 93

Anyone that grew up on Mario games knows that you beat a few levels, then a castle, then a boss, rinse repeat, until you reach Bowser beat him and save Peach . The first two 3D entries did away with this. They fool you into thinking you have this huge open world to explore but the levels themselves have nothing to do except climb and find stars. They improved Mario's moveset to up the gameplay but took out the levels. All you're left is a few small areas to use Mario's moveset in. Galaxy was a step in the right direction. Levels with branching paths. With the success of the NSMB series Nintendo realized that people wanted a more "true to the roots" Mario game. Their first attempt was 3D Land. This game has 3D environments, multiple levels, a timer, no health bar, new rolling move akin to DKC, flagpoles, and a traditional power-up system. Then 3D World added multiple characters, multiplayer, and more powerups. It's clear that 3D Land and 3D World are what a 3D Mario game should be. Not a collectathon in a handful of empty levels, but a large collection of diverse levels that progressively increase in difficulty.

>bk
>crash

Reel obv bait, sandpie lmao

>complaining that a Mario game plays like a Mario game
And you wonder why nobody cares what you think.

>It's clear that 3D Land and 3D World are what a 3D Mario game should be

All that shit text and you could just have said it right away

salty contrarion is salty

I just pasta'd it from an old thread.

Quality > Quantity

Only memorable level is double cherry pass but only because of the song.

And nobody cared for beep beep galaxy until minus 8 made that flash.

>no advanced movement techniques
>He doesn't know
Watch a speedrun

Super Mario 3D World should not be compared to other 3D mario games, because it's a very different type of game. It has more in common with 2D mario and should be treated as such.

It's also really fucking fun so you faggots should fuck off.

I don't agree, I didn't like how much Mario64 had to change about the traditional Mario formula when it made the transition to 3D. I feel it's become a fairly overrated game that becomes very tedious (mostly due to the fact that when you get a star, you're kicked out of the level you're in - only to go back in and replay it again to get another star slightly off-path from the previous one). Don't get me wrong, I still love SM64, it's a great game that's far ahead of its time, but it's no masterpiece by any means.

>Just because it worked in those games doesn't mean a 3D Mario game should just be turned into a 2D Mario game.
Why do you say this?
There's nothing wrong with referring to the 2D Mario formula in a 3D games, it's something Nintendo hadn't tried before and probably aren't going to retread for whatever's next in the series (there's been hints that the next 2D and 3D Mario games are something new entirely), so if anything I'd argue this choice was a good move given the growing criticism that all Mario games are alike - you finally have one that changes up the formula of both series by mixing their parts (and adding some new ones), yet people still complain.

traditional platformers don't. Compared to the genre as a whole, "exploration" platformers are a new thing; personally, I can give or take it, sometimes it works well with the genre but other times I find them tedius beyond belief.

>And nobody cared for beep beep galaxy until minus 8 made that flash.
I don't even know what "minus 8" is but I fucking loved beep beep galaxy.

>3D autistic world
>same retard music for each world
>get the cat beat the stage

Sure I'm a contrarian. The game is wonderful!

fuck your hot opinions, the levels have both quality and quantity, I can't think of a level I didn't like - and every level felt different to play thanks to the many platforming mechanics and gimmicks offered in the game.

The only good level is that one where you land with a cat suit and you have a vast field to explore

That is the only one. The rest is garbage.

>same retard music for each world
>get the cat beat the stage
the hell are you talking about

...

Does no SM64 -mobility but 2D game exist?

SM64 is the best game because it has parallel universes

You can also get stars with half-A-presses

>>no momentum
But that's wrong
There's that whole glitch with Peach + Catsuit on ice levels to go flying ridiculously fast, isn't there?

I can remember:
First level, shadow level, that colorless ghost house, the chinaman mansion level, the train, the tanks, the level from the first trailer, the underground level with the bombs everywhere, the levels with the fuzzy flood you have to run from, the shitty Plessie levels, the Mario Kart level, the 3D Land level, the overhead shooter level, the blue lava level, the annoying dark piranha plant poison swamp level, the circus levels, and that's it.

That's more levels than there are in 64 or Sunshine.

>fixed camera
the whole point is it's based off 2d mario but put into a 3d plane. how do you not understand this?
>time limit
you mean like basically every single other mario platformer had as well?
>no exploration
the first, and only valid point you'll make this whole time
>linear as fuck
see the point on fixed camera
>no momentum
AN A PRESS IS AN A PRESS, YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S HALF but seriously fuck off, this isn't a real complaint
>no analog movement
which in no way serves as a detriment
>no advanced movement techniques
just because you're too retarded to pull them off doesn't mean they're not there
>run button
oh fuck how dare they make moving less tedious. how DARE they
>is only fun when fucking with other people
now you're just projecting. be nice to your friends or you won't keep them around for long, fag

>>fixed camera
>technically untrue as you can move the camera, though its movement is limited simply because the level design benefits from it this way
the shit level design benefits the shit camera so it's ok
>>time limit
>How is this a bad thing? Most Mario level have a time limit, there's even levels in 3D World where you can extend the time limit. There's no reason to wander around wasting time in these levels anyway.
But how is exploration wasting time? It makes each level feel more important and dynamic. If they wanted to make a game based on "get to the flag" objectives, they should have made the whole game like the secret levels in sunshine and justified it with chain based movement and momentum
>>no exploration
>it's a platformer, not an adventure game
How the FUCK do you think a platformer is inherently meant to be linear?
>>linear as fuck
>just like classic Mario
When Mario 64 is objectively better than any "classic" Mario game, these comparisons are no longer valid
>>no momentum
>But there is?
There isn't. Mario's direction is stiff and going faster doesn't equate risk
>>no analog movement
>same reason as the camera movement really
Any game where a character moves on a 3D plane would only benefit from analog input. It's what 3D Mario is based on.
>>no advanced movement techniques
>because powerups exist to substitute them
Power ups exist because wall jumping and triple jumping is too hard for children like you. Getting to a high place is no longer a fun challenge
>>run button
>taken from classic Mario
Stop artistically comparing 3D Mario games to 2D Mario games to justify shitty decisions
>>is only fun when fucking with other people
>literally false
Literally true

SMB3 shits all over 3D Autism World

And that's a fucking 2D game from years ago.

What if both are good games?

You have no fucking clue what memorable even means.

Back to redòdit you retarded sack of shit

>complaining that a 3D platformer plays like a 2D platformer
FTFY

Fucking kill yourself.

not him but in this case it's you who doesn't know
nonmemorable =/= basically I DIDN'T LIKE IT
try again though
>WELL SM64 HAD MEMORABLE LEVELS
yes because it had only a handful of them and you being 10 would keep most of that shit deep in your memory
off with the nostalgia glasses

Sure but one is better than the other.

nice argument you projecting froglover
>REEEEEEE MY NOSTALGIA
remind me why you tell other people to go to reddit when you clearly live and breathe it

It's a 2D Mario game in a 3D plane.

I enjoyed it a lot more than 3D Land and NSMB but I do hope they make a proper 3D Mario next time.

lol whatever, I'll stop arguing. 64 babies can win the argument and hate 3D World. But Nintendo will keep making future Mario games like this instead of the old collectathon way you love. Real Mario fans win in the end. Millennial faggots.

You are a retarded nintendodrone

The fuck are you even smoking you retard? None of what you said makes sense.

thanks for admitting i won

An opportunity was wasted to make a mother 2D Mario game instead of a good successor to 64 and Sunshine. I've already waited 14 years and it still hasn't happened. Even if they did an HD remake of 64 I'd be happy

Miyamoto said he wants to change up 3D Mario for the NX, break the conventions of the franchise much like Zelda did with Breath of the Wild.

How would you envision that? Ignoring 3D World, where exactly does 3D Mario go from Galaxy?

hopefully backwards
galaxy 1 is my least favourite 3d mario

That level sucked man, it's just a big flat rectangle with no features outside of the few scattered events to get green stars.

>List things he doesn't like
>Hence they are objectively bad
K

>the shit level design benefits the shit camera so it's ok
so 2D-inspired classic Mario level design is shit now?
>But how is exploration wasting time?
see >How the FUCK do you think a platformer is inherently meant to be linear?
I don't, I just feel a platformer should focus on platforming first and foremost, it's possible to have exploration elements on top of that of course - but many games that do take it too far, resulting in weaker platforming elements and either a bunch of shit to collect or sidequest stuff that wastes my time as I have to repeat going through the same areas with no gameplay change.
>When Mario 64 is objectively better than any "classic" Mario game, these comparisons are no longer valid
shit taste, SMB3 is the best Mario game, maybe Yoshi's Island too if that counts as one.
>There isn't. Mario's direction is stiff and going faster doesn't equate risk
I don't think you even know what momentum is
>Any game where a character moves on a 3D plane would only benefit from analog input. It's what 3D Mario is based on.
Explain how 3D World would benefit from full analog input, I'll wait.
>Power ups exist because wall jumping and triple jumping is too hard for children like you. Getting to a high place is no longer a fun challenge
But wall jumping is present in 3D World you fucktard; triple jumping was dropped, though, then again if triple jumping were kept it'd be too easy to reach the top of the flagpoles in 3D World.
>Stop artistically comparing 3D Mario games to 2D Mario games to justify shitty decisions
Why? It's a fitting example to bring up given that 3D World is clearly trying to mix the two together.
>Literally true
Forgive me for not believing someone that didn't even realise 3D World has walljumping.

I'm with you. Bring back the 64 formula. Same with Donkey Kong. Zelda is the only one they're doing right.

You won what, exactly?

you're mum's thicc pussy

SUPER MARIO 3D OPEN WORLD

I hate open Mario games, but it probably will be something like this, I bet SM64/Sunshinefags will still be displeased with it, too.

I would have been fine with the "3D" Mario games if they didn't completely replace the traditional format, I guarantee this is a big reason why the Wii U flopped.

>I guarantee this is a big reason why the Wii U flopped.
you're retarded

Soon enough they'll put Zelda in a chariot and Link won't be able to move without a fucking chariot

Mario Maker 3D

>You no rike my reverru? Make them yoself, whito piggu.

Zelda is like classic Zelda, Mario is like classic Mario. Stop being a 64 baby and realize you're not a real Mario fan if you think 64 is a good Mario game. It's a just a 3D platformer with a Mario skin.

Honestly I don't think I'd remember many of the levels in SM64 if you didn't have to constantly replay them and the game wasn't constantly brought up as a classic. I can barely remember the second ice level and Rainbow Ride as it is.

Memorable means it made an impact on you you fucking ignorant asswipe nintendrone.

It means you remember it because there was something about it that you liked about it that you played a couple of times.

Just because you have the autism necessary to remember all those boring levels doesn't mean they're memorable.

You just said "i remember the circus levels"

Well no fucking shit I can remember the desert levels and the snow levels as well.

But that doesn't mean they're memorable.

Go back to elementary school you underage faggot.

>wanting more DK 64
whats wrong with you?

Donkey Kong '94 or Mario vs. Donkey Kong.

HOW THE FUCK DID MARIO 64 MAKE AN IMPACT ON YOU HAHAHA LIKE READ A BOOK FAGGOT

I realize that 64 isn't classic Mario, and I've also realized that 64 is more fun than classic Mario with or without nostalgia glasses. Take off your nostalgia goggles and get with the times, you hipster douche.

It's not a 3D, or 2D Mario. It's basically in between, and doesn't need to follow the same functions as the other types. However it's style is my least favorite, I vastly prefer the pure 2D and 3D Mario games.

IT'S 2016 NOT 1996
MOVE ON, FAGGOT
MOVE ON

>the levels of a launch 64 title were small and there were only a few

The base of 64 is such a solid, well-crafted piece of work. It's amazing how we never truly got a game that decided to use modern advances in technology to push this work further. Sunshine is a beautiful game that has some interesting ideas for levels, but built itself around the FLUDD idea.

I don't understand how people can look at any game from Sunshine to 3D World and say we've gotten a game that truly captures the potential depth these games could have. The technology moves forward, but the games become more shallow as time goes on.

I'm not going to sit here and complain about 3D World, because it's a fun game for it's own reasons, but anyone who is disappointed in squandered potential is just wearing nostalgia goggles is a fucking faggot.

The 3D games should have a real staunch difference from the 2D games, and I'm worried Nintendo's fear of alienating people and their slow sterilization of both series is leading to less interesting games.

It made an impact on everyone because it was the first 3D mario game and it was well made. The music was glorious and the overworld was unique for the time.

Like what book? Harry Potter or Twilight? No thanks.

>I'll stop arguing. 64 babies can win the argument and hate 3D World.
That's not an "argument" you autistic faggot, it's an opinion.

>Liking modern Nintendo

Gaming is dead.

I'm not too keen on SM64 personally, but I should point out to you that part of the reason they made 3D World a mix of mostly 2D with some 3D elements is because the 3D games have never held a candle to how successful the 2D games have been (yes, even the NSMB series sells significantly better than the 3D games). 3D World was an attempt to capture both audiences, but it has the problem of being a Wii U game.

Nigga you're arguing with Nintendrones. What the fuck do you expect?

>You are everything wrong with this industry
Only underage faggots say this type of gay shit

Banjo Kazooie is 10x than Mare-e-o and is nothing like 3D world. BK is more like 64. Try playing it, you'll like it

>it's another "I can't comprehend the fact that 3D world is not a major 3D Mario title in the same sense of 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy and is more like a 2D Mario sidescroller set in a 3D environment" season
>meanwhile some faggots off to the side are saying some retarded "lul nintendrones" shit for some reason
Nuke this board

Do you really think that most of the people in this thread haven't played Banjo Kazooie? It's not obscure or anything, quite the opposite. Fuck off fag.

I'm responding to you but this is also for everyone wanting a full 3D Mario with the depth of 64 and the size of Galaxy. (like me)
It will never get done. We are in the minority. Most nintendo player and player in general are casual, and nintendo knows it well from playtester. People want more accessible and short games.
That's why Nintendo is shifting the structure of Mario games, and we will never get a deep one.
Rejoice actually that SM3DW has actually good gameplay to it.
This blog has a nice collection of interviews that clear it up
dromble.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/nintendos-frustrations-with-3d-mario/

>People want more accessible and short games.
but 3D World is the longest Mario game, it also has some of the hardest levels in any Mario game (even if they are towards the very end).

Except the levels are bite-sized and you can pick it up and play a level whenever, they don't mean the whole game takes 5-6 hours to beat.

the game takes around 10 hours to beat (defeat Bowser in World Bowser), around 30 hours to complete (beat Champion's Road); sources:

howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=9362
gamelengths.com/games/playtimes/Super Mario 3D World/

>but 3D World is the longest Mario game, it also has some of the hardest levels in any Mario game (even if they are towards the very end).
bingo. While SM3DW is long in absolute standard, it is straightforward in your objectives and level structure. Really hard levels are only at the end and some of them are bonuses. The camera doesn't have to be controlled, there are no multiple routes, and the levels require no long-commitment to them, but they are bite-sized, similar to 2D mario or the portable games.
Just read the thing and not my poor worded comments that are trying to sum the whole thing up, those interviews to nintendo game designer really show what's going on. While I like 3DW, I am kind of sad that nintendo is no longer going to produce complex 3d marios probably, and that's a shame.

>old nintendo
creates mario 64, a revolutionary masterpiece. it's so deep and intriguing that scholars are still studying its inner workings to this day

>neo nintendo
creates super mario 3d la-world, generic disneyshit aimed exclusively at toddlers.has no soul. gameplay has been even more dumbed down than galaxy. mario has forgotten how to preserve momentum when jumping. sold poorly, couldn't save the wii u. rehashed 3d land. already forgotten

why would a platformer even need alternative routes? it's not an inherent requirement to the genre, if anything it can risk detracting from the platforming itself as the result is the level designer has to focus on making 2+ split areas play well instead of 1 whole level experience.

Also, it's bizarre to call arguably the longest Mario game "bite-sized", though I'm assuming you're calling the individual levels bitesized (although earlier you tried to claim the game was "5-6 hours to beat" so I get the feeling you're simply full of shit.

>it's so dated and buggy that autists are still breaking its logic to this day

OP sure didn't

>why would a platformer even need alternative routes? it's not an inherent requirement to the genre, if anything it can risk detracting from the platforming itself as the result is the level designer has to focus on making 2+ split areas play well instead of 1 whole level experience.
for more depth and replayability? As I've said, I found SM3DW fun, but I don't think I'm going to revisit as often as 64/sunshine, exactly like I don't revisit as often the classic 2d games respect to something like mega drive sonic.
>Also, it's bizarre to call arguably the longest Mario game "bite-sized", though I'm assuming you're calling the individual levels bitesized
I'll quote myself
> and the levels require no long-commitment to them, but they are bite-sized
to me it sounds like they refers to levels, but I'm not a native english speaker so correct me if I'm wrong
>(although earlier you tried to claim the game was "5-6 hours to beat" so I get the feeling you're simply full of shit.
never said that. This fag is not me

I don't think a ~30+ hour Mario game really needs "replayability" if it's that long already. That said, there is a mild incentive to revisit levels in order to collect the stamps/stars/golden flagpole.

Reading the article fills me with anger

It just makes me sad because we are losing a really good type of games