Daily reminder:

Piracy offers a way to try the games before you decide if you should give your money to jews.

There are many good arguments against intellectual property and copyright. It may be the law to not copy games now, but no self respecting person lets the law tell them what to do.

>pirate a movie
>nothing
>pirate music
>nothing
>pirate a videogame
>YOU ARE RUINING THE VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY FOR US ALL, HITLER!

explain this Cred Forums

>pay for game
>its shit
>get refund
Whats with not buying bad games?

There are literally thousands of videos, reviews, and let's plays to tell you if a game is worth your money or not. Stealing it shouldn't be an option.

op ur a fuckin idiot if you think there isn't piracy on consoles

Corporate ass kissers.

Good games do well even with piracy. If a game doesn't do well, it isn't because of piracy, it's a shitty game or you didn't put enough funds in marketing.

Why do you want to play it so badly if it's just a "trial"

no, its buyfags like you

>People still fall for it

Made 12 of those threads and it always works

458 Replies and 104 Images, never fail to amaze me Cred Forums

You aren't on a music board.
You aren't on a movie board.
You're on a video game board.

What a fucking hard concept to grasp. You're killing those industries too when you do the same.

lol u mad lad??

>you can't buy people
>people don't become retards because they turn loyalist towards a franchise/company/brand
enjoying being 6 years old?

Property without scarcity of that property type, is a joke, the whole point is the scarcity. Paying for it shouldn't be an option.

>thousands of videos, reviews, and let's plays
None of those let me play the actual game and decide for myself.

Video games are interactive media, and therefore if you can't interact with it, then you don't know if you will like it or not.

Movie makers and musicians don't fucking cancel development/ports to the PC because of pirates.

Games have been physically denied to the PC because of devs being worried that it's a lost cause because of the degree of piracy.

same

Unlike music and movies, games have no other ways of earning money. While musicians and movie-studios get money for putting their music and films out there on tv/radio for every playback.

Meanwhile games don't have that option. you either buy that game, or the studio has to write it off as a failure.

That's the difference between pirating music/movies and games.

I was playing a pirated copy of GTAIV recently, I put a bunch of pirated music tracks onto the custom radio channel and listened to them while driving stolen cars.

I'm not gonna say pirates are cancer.
Hell, I'M a pirate.

I WILL say pirates are either directly or indirectly responsible for 98% of the problems facing the video game industry today.

People being vocal fucks about how they pirate music is what led to Ulric going on his bitchfit and led to the restrictions we have on music today.

>make vidya-related thread
>11 Replies
>Make thread about pirates, modding and traps
>517 Replies

Defend corporation! Corporation is your friend!

...

All games should have demos, but pirating is wrong.

If you don't have a demo for your game I'm going to assume your hiding it like a fucking crime scene.

youtube.com/watch?v=m78gYyTrG7Y

>foaming at the mouth because of videogames
>makes an entire thread out of angst
How about you deal with it?

If this was ten years ago when literally every game DIDN'T get wall-to-wall coverage months before release, you'd have an argument. As it is, it's 2016 dude. Literally every square inch of every game ever made is thoroughly documented, catalogued, and commented on, often weeks before the game actually comes out.

And if you STILL need to play it before you'll know if you like it, there's refunds for everything.

"I pirate to try it" doesn't work anymore.

OOGA BOOGA STEAL THEM WHITEY GAMES WE SHUDDA GOTTEN DEMOS

WHY U TRYN TO ARREST ME CRACKA, PIRACY AINT STEALIN, GIMME FREE STUFF

>Literally every square inch of every game ever made is thoroughly documented, catalogued, and commented on, often weeks before the game actually comes out.
And that coverage is about 99.999% dishonest.

Found this image less than five minutes ago.
I couldn't pass up the opportunity to trigger Cred Forums.

Just so you know, user, lack of sympathy and an inability to put yourself in the shoes of another is a sign of autism.

Lets get this over with

>Post yfw Denuvo is dead

Bobby, go to your room!

>drm, dlc, exclusive dlc, pre order bonuses, pay to win, pay to not grind, cut content, publishers abusing developers, kikestarter, people owning ideas and an infinite resource, lack of creativity to appeal to major market trends
Piracy is good, and in your best interest.

>guy shows video of game on release date without commentary
>footage is somehow biased

Your retarded argument only works in reference to pre-orders, and if you indulge in that, you're part of a different problem.

You are not entitled to "try" a complete game

Only demos

no u

I'm not just talking about pre-release trailers and stuff like that.
There's also lets-plays and "First hour of"s. Hell, I can think of ten youtube channels that all play variations on the theme "Before you buy"

I only pirate TV shows.
When I was younger, I used to pirate absolutely everything because I didn't have any money.
The creators didn't lose any money because it was a purchase I couldn't make.
Now I have surplus cash, I purchase everything, even some games I pirated before.
If you have money, it's a consumerist's job to put some of the money back. Don't be fucking Jews.

You're right champ, no one should pay for anything ever.

Certainly the industry will be able to sustain itself on nothing. Certainly.

How is it good.

Name one benefit that piracy bestows upon me besides devs becoming more reluctant to port/develope to PC.

did piracy existed from the start or it came into being after the disappearance of trials and demos?

Cred Forums and Cred Forums don't shitpost about piracy killing the industry on their board

Cred Forums is a complete joke, you exist for nothing but shitposting

...

Yes, corporations that make vidya are my friends.

"Release date" is different to "weeks before the game actually comes out." But even on release, it's mostly dishonest.

Yes, even LPs and 'first hours' and shit.

No, piracy is the REASON THOSE THINGS EXIST.

If you don't like those things, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME.
AT ALL.
IN ANY FORM.

The thing pirates seem to forget is piracy still shows interest in a product.

When people pirate a product, the company doesn't view that as a failure of the product, they view that as a failure of the market state.

TRIGGER WARNING: FOOD ANALOGY
If you have a grocery store, and people keep stealing your apples, which option sounds more reasonable to you; beef up security to make it harder to steal apples, or make the apples better?

youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI

Why not?

If you eat shit food and want a refund and the owner goes "lol u have already eaten the whole thign so I can't gib u moneyz"
Would you cuck out?

It always existed when it was possible, lack of trials and demos had nothing to do with it.

>Game is good because it's subversive
>If you find out why it's good it won't be good to you when you play it
>People think that you should research a game instead of pirating it and then buying it

Without the corporation there wouldn't be any games ? If you don't agree with them, you can still boycott by not buying their shit. You have no right to steal it though.

Existed from the start. Piracy pre-dates electricity (Or at least, what we would call piracy - the laws and terms have obviously changed a lot over time).

Are you serious? If you eat it you have to pay for it. If it was so bad you need a refund then you wouldn't eat it all in the first place.

Still don't understand what you can't find out from a gameplay video from a non-publisher/dev that's muted. You get to see everything on screen. You can watch the ENTIRE game start to finish if you wanted to. Your argument is invalid unless you want the game day 1, which would mean you're part of the cancer killing this industry.

>his arguments are just "they probaly maybe almost 100% lie to everyone"

Justify food poisoning

this.

Unless you're a freaking whale and you eat an Apple in one bite.

Go try that shit at a restaurant you retarded manchild

See what happens

Also sound direction is a key element For great enjoyment of a game

I can test drive a car before buying it so why shouldn't i be able to test a game before buying it? videos and reviews mean jack shit compared to actually playing it yourself.

Got a question denuvofags

if piracy really hurts sales, how come Witcher 3, a DRM-Free game, got lots of sales and a GOTY?

this question was never answered

Oh look, another thread with moralfags stroking their fragile feefees because they can't actually stop piracy.

On you, yourself? Saving a potentially huge amount of money, quite easily, without risk, and not being one of these self sellout fags
>it's a consumerist's job to put some of the money back. Don't be fucking Jews.
Worshiping the wallets of the publishers who are responsible for practically everything wrong with video games.

No, I'm pretty sure the reason those things exist is to squeeze as much money they can out of an artistically raped and mainstream pandering industry.
Here's a better food analogy, you have unlimited apples, you sell them at an arbitrary price by the fraction of an apple, you're a dick give me your apples.

It's amazing how in denial pirates are.

Listen, I really don't care if you pirate or not. But seriously, stop bitching when devs move more and more over to other markets because piracy is less prevalent there.

Like consoles.

Atleast we don't pay to pirate games on PC. Can't say it's the same for console plebs.

Because musicians and film producers aren't retarded enough to use piracy fearmongering not to produce.

The gaming audience is full of gullible idiots who fall for the piracy scapegoat hook line and sinker. Gaming companies never have to take responsibility for their failure, they can just blame pirates or consumers for being too entitled.

Okay, first, this guy
Is retarded.

Second, your argument is stupid, because of COURSE any resturaunt worth its salt would give you a refund, but then SO WILL GAME SELLERS.

Piracy =/= refunds. Refunds == refunds, and refunds for digital products is a thing that exists in 2016

>If you find out why it's good it won't be good to you when you play it
Man I love dropping videogames after 30 minutes of gameplay when I've seen everything and now know how the game plays.

>Pirate "tries" game
>Logs 150+ hours, 100% completes it
>"Meh, not worth a purchase."

DELETE THIS

>Cred Forums never gives a shit about pirating
>so does Cred Forums, the board of tumblr
>and /t/
>and the whole 4chinz
>Cred Forums, the board that dislike the term of moralfag, become the most moralfag of them all
Since when this board filled with bunch of pansies?

>Buy the game
>Play 2h
>If you don't like it refund it
>???
>Profit
Are you retarded ?

>If you eat it you have to pay for it
Except that's blatantly false.

>games have no other ways of earning money.

This is a fallacy that has been refuted several times over now, you dipshits still try to rationalize why video games are special when it comes to piracy while you pirate your music and other media

>Because musicians and film producers aren't retarded enough to use piracy fearmongering not to produce.
The american media companies literally did everything in their power to shut down ThePirateBay. Metallica fought to shut down Napster. If you think they don't care you are either stupid or underaged as fuck

Piracy is wrong and I don't do it out of ethical superiority or anything like that. I do it because I can and I think I won't be caught. When I have the disposable income for it, I do pay for games.

Because it was so good people went out of their way to buy it, and because you can't pirate on console ?
Would have had even more sales without piracy. How is it hard to comprehend ?

Cred Forums went to shit after 2009

They started playing casual games, watch e-celeb faggots, trap-baiting and then this

its literally the opposite of Cred Forums nowadays

Time spent working doesn't alwalys produce value. Isn't it sad? They could toil for years and produce a shit game which merits none of my dollars.

You're a fucking idiot

Daily reminder. IP laws are cancer.

Games aren't flawless, the 30 minutes you saw could have been a flawed shitty unpolished part in an otherwise polished game.

Videos also don't account for controls, which many games look good until you play them and feel like shit

Guess what, i don't give a shit. I would steal cars if i could get away with it

except that denuvo is extremly effective, and even though some have cracked it and many will, it has taken them months and it will STILL take them months since cracking one will not simply crack all of them. If you call cracking denuvo after a couple a months a victory, then youre wrong. Denuvo was a succes since delayed crack means more sales, you can also notice this trend by the increasing number of games using denuvo.

i dont like piracy, and it is objectively stupid, but as the hypocrite that i am, i still pirate games myself. And even though piracy is bad on a large scale for companies, i still hope that denuvo gets cracked somehow, for my own sake.

3/4 of Witcher 3's sales were from PS4

Witcher 3 is on PC too ya know

do you have to pay before you test drive a car too?

But my post says pirating is wrong you donut.

And something like a review embargo can leave consumers uninformed until the game's release.

Just look at No Man's Sky for the latest example of this

I pirate games because I can and feel like it.
No other reason, just like free games.
Get fucked.

>Supporting corporations that buttfuck you
>Moral

No, Cred Forums is the kind of Lawful Good that follows the Lawful Evil fellow

Piracy doesn't delete sales from occurring. It was a massively hyped AAA game with all the reviewers orgasming over it. I don't even give a shit about denuvo but you have to be autistic to think piracy matters to big games like Witcher 3, it has much more influence on smaller niche games that can't afford as much marketing.

Struggling to see your point. Why risk inevitable industry staging and lies (Which permeates the hobby far beyond the confines of 'official publisher media,' as we all know) when it's much easier to get a 100% accurate view of a game by playing it yourself?

Not to say these videos are completely useless, I'm sure they can give a rough idea of whether you're interested in the game or not in a general sense, but why submit your decision making process to a notoriously disingenuous industry when a better option is a mouse-click away?

Personally I just check whatever's released, download whatever's interesting to me, and get round to trying everything whenever I feel like it, rather than letting someone else frame my experience. That seems pointless and retarded to me, even if that someone else was definitely being 100% honest and unbiased. Which they never are. Ever.

>Read a book
>It's fucking shit
>Gonna pay anyway cuz I'm a cuck

>Compares playing a shitty game with food poisoning.
How desperate do you have to be?!

pirates are always either narcissistic douches or fat retards

>Read an argument
>Make shitty analogy
>Meme

>"Hey! You're supposed to pay for that!"
>"I'll buy it if I like it first!"

Why are pc cucks such fucking assholes?

0/10 try again in another thread, autist.

if i can steal cars and get away with it, i'd do it
if i can steal video games and get away with it, i'do it

and no shaming nor a bunch of bait images can stop me or any other pirates

y'all screamed "PIRACY IS DEAD" since 2008 yet it still lives and striving

in the end Deal with it

I pirate because I can.

Huh, that actually explains all the fucking shilling going on for that horrendous game, they literally have nothing good to compare it to so they actually unironically think it's a good game.

The more you know.

>GOTY

Wasn't that ori?

pic related

Piracy doesn't lead to lost sales.

If someone pirates a game, they are either going to pay for it later, or they wouldn't have paid for it anyways.

It's also not stealing because there's infinite supply.

>piratefag analogies

>eat shitty good
>sit on the toilet for hours
>play shitty game to completion
>wasted days of my life
>both cost money

Developers are not at all reluctant to port to PC unless they're incompetent, Japanese, or Phil Fish.

They port it because they haven't fallen for the Lost Sale Fallacy that anti-PC shitposters constantly like to bring up

>this other thing works just like that completely different thing we are talking about
Do you have to buy gas for your games?

>impyling demos are standard these days

>tfw I'll continue to pirate and there's NOTHING moralfags like can do to stop me

mah nigga

If more games had open betas or demos then none of this would be an issue. Too bad most games now are nothing but a collection of bullshot photos and ambiguous trailers that avoid as much gameplay as possible.

By the time the game comes out you've either watched it all the way through on Twitch because someone got an early copy, or you pirate that shit because the company put such little effort into their product. Which is probably why so many companies avoid demos and betas, because they know their game is as deep as a kiddy pool. All the production budget goes into making their game look as "trailer-cool" as possible. Making a game fun usually comes in a series of patches and twitter apologies. Then a year later you finally get the version you actually wanted to pay for, that has all of the content included for a single price; usually called Collectors, Complete, or some kind of lore friendly term for "You're not a sucker who bought this incomplete game a year ago."

>Read a shit analogy
>Make a better analogy
>Watch the cuck get mad as fuck

>what is electricity

No! Bad user! Devs are ENTITLED to your money you filthy consumer trash!

>Piracy is good, and in your best interest.
>be faggot pirate
>only buy multiplayer games populated by other multiplayer addicts
>spend money buying shit cosmetics and packs and shit for the shit multiplayer games
>pirate all singleplayer games, especially indie and quality AAA games
I-I'm fighting the m-man, man!

...

It took MatthewMatosis several playthroughs of Bioshock Infinite to determine how shitty it was. It's called having high standards and discerning whether a piece of art is valuable or not.

I'm sure he and many others would have preferred to pirate the game

>what are demos

oh your probably wouldnt know because they prety much dont exsist anymore. but nah, of course the poor game devs have to be defended when they cant be fucked making a sodding demo to help promote their game

>Guys guys guys look at my strawman, amazing isn't it?!
Sure thing Timmy, sure thing.

>piracy is the REASON THOSE THINGS EXIST.

Yeah just ignore the fact that microtransactions and such are still more profitable than not even when piracy isn't a factor. You're a fucking retard who fell for the scapegoat

>don't like it, don't buy it or play it at all
>you can't say it's bad if you never played it, vote with your wallet

Fuck yourself

>play shitty game to completion
I hate this game so much I'm going to play it some more
-352428463, the retard

But then, immediately AFTER the game releases, there's nothing stopping anybody from saying how shitty a game is.

The problem here isn't previews or publishers. It's you for being an impatient prick.

Just look at No Man's Sky for the latest example of this.

Sometimes I'm forced to pirate games, as classic shit like DOOM, Red Alerts and such are almost impossible to buy.

Also game devs should give fucking demo versions out. Fuck.

[citation needed]

Publishers will still publish games on PC because of income. With consoles publishers and devs just receive 20% of the income.

On PC dev and publisher get 70% of the income and the rest goes to valve and in origins case almost all income goes directly to dev and publisher minus origin server maintenance costs

>got to clothing retail store
>want to try the clothes first to see if they fit properly

>"Hey! You're supposed to pay for that!"

>"But I want to see if it fits first"

>"Watch a review lol"

Why do you tolerate anti-customer practises?

How come rarely Cred Forums has a pirating thread but has TONS of denuvo and moralfag threads?

also, why in all of the sites, they chose to talk about "degeneracy" on 4-fucking-chan?

dont these fuckers know where the hell they are?

Different user here. Consumers are definitely part of the problem, but so is the entire vidya media.

>since delayed crack means more sales
Literally retarded

...

>Reviewers, casual normies and fans are always honest and good indications of product quality :^)

Fan retards praise garbage like Witcher 3 and Undertale you inbred moron, and this cannot possibly be the first time you've used that argument and got this response.

its bait

nothing but bait, everything is bait and always bait

in Cred Forums, its either bait or be baited

>game has a demo
>uhh, what if game has a bug in the location that is not in the demo that causes game to crash on my system, give me the game for free already.

It's not about fighting the man, it's about saving money where you're being outright pooped on. I'm constantly trying to talk people out of paying for tv and just pirating their shows.
To fight the man, fight to get publishers hands as far from the development of the game as possible and the best conditions for devs possible desu

No, because I'm not an autistic manbaby like you. I can read restaurant reviews and make smart decisions with my money.

Depends. There's a fine balance between Devs and Players responsibility. On one hand pirates don't hurt anything except sales. On the other it's a Devs responsibility to deliver on their promise. Ex. No Mans Sky, Ubisoft games, DaS2, etc.

>>game has a demo
That's rarely the case these days.

pirate is love, pirate is life

It's a combination of trolls and retards who don't realise the trolls are trolling. We brought this on ourselves.

Y'all motherfuckers need to know this website still has a pirating board that is In the end nobody cares about you moralfag parroting why piracy is bad because piracy was already a thing since the beginning of internet
Oh wait, maybe you guys just too young to remember

Oh? Enlighten me then, how else do they make their money back? I'm legitimately curious. (I'm here for a back and forth, not a moralfag hating at pirates for ruining muh vidya)

>I'm a braindead faggot who lives his life as told by others
Okay, so you're a moron that cannot think for himself, glad we got that out of the way.

who are you quoting?
no one has ever said this...

for all apples they still had to make them, and that cost money, when you buy them, they get money.

Daily reminder that there hasn't been a single legitimate study that linked a lack of DRM (and therefore higher rates of piracy) to lower sales for a game. In fact, the opposite has often been proven true.

The truth is, someone who would pirate a game and never buy it never would have bought it anyway.

The problem with this is that hype trains can go off the rails and people will start pre-ordering like crazy despite no 3rd parties having access to the game to actually tell consumers what to expect. The money was already burned before the game even came out.

The only real way to fix this is to trash the concept of pre orders all together, but good luck achieving that now

Try reading the post before you reply you abject retard. There's a fucking difference between going after piracy sites and using piracy as an excuse for shitty business practices or the lack of a release.

>Since the beginning of the internet
Check out this underage faggot

Piracy was a thing long before that you imbecile, ask your parents about how they used cassette tapes to record music from the radio if you're too young to have lived it.

but how did you read it, user?

gamerant.com/the-witcher-3-sales-pc-consoles-125/

I miss demos. Back during the ps1, ps2 and even ps3 days it was great to get demo discs/download demos. Last gen I used to go on the store/marketplace all the time to check if new demos were added.

I don't know why people can't understand that if a game is good, it will be bought. Just pirated 2k17 to check performance and it was shit even with the updates. Game looks like ass. There's already a reshade mod that makes the graphics look better instead of the shitty piss filter and clay looking players.

You think I'm going to spend money on that shit let alone put time into it? I'll go back to 2k14 because clearly the devs don't care too much about creating a good basketball experience.

Nice scapegoat, Shlomo.

>I'll just try before buy
>it's good so I'll keep it for free forever
not even here to argue on piracy, just this argument is complete shit

That analogy was perfectly logical though. Ironically your greentext meme image shitpost is not an argument.

Nigger go outside Cred Forums sometimes.

Sixty dollars worth of content is still worth sixty dollars, even if you don't like it. You are not entitled to a demo, you are not entitled to a trial of the full game. You are not entitled to shit you socialist PCcucks. Read reviews online you fucking idiots.
>but muh paid reviews
Find something less mainstream and trustworthy. And if you do waste money on a game you don't like, fucking deal with it you piece of shit. It ain't a big deal. Sixty dollars isn't that much money. Work harder for the next sixty dollars you earn, that is if you actually have a job and don't live with your moms still. It is this kind of fucking entitlement that created monsters like Lenin and Stalin. Kill yourselves you PC faggots.

How many people who actually contributed directly the production of the game have already been paid before it ships though, and what percentage of each purchase goes to them? Why would I care when it's just a drain on my money?

>it's about saving money where you're being outright pooped on.
No, it's about justifying your freeloading. Don't give me this bullshit about how you're a poor victim being oppressed by the industry or some dumb shit. You aren't morally justified in pirating their shit. You are justified only in your brain and those who share your same agenda of freeloading.

Just accept that you want free shit and you don't give give a shit about anyone or anything who might be harmed. Stop this cancerous attitude of making up justifications because you're too much of a fucking pussy.

>I'll pretend this is what people really do because it suits my narrative!
How old are you and how the fuck have you not learned this is completely ridiculous and unacceptable behavior yet, user?

I find it a little funny that you call pirates cancer. I pirate constantly, and yet I have bought more games than you ever will.

How else can you try the game out without a demos then?

Or do you really believe lack of demos is a consumer friendly practise?

>friend pirates Far Cry 3 due to butthurt over dev time going to multiplayer
>claims it ruins single player
>ask him how shit it is weeks later
>it's great lol
>never pays for it

:^)

It says that 70% of sales were physical copies for both Bone and PS4, which is hardly a surprise for a multiplat

>man this game is so fucking bad i can't stand it
>plays it 22 more times

>he never recorded a vinyl from radio
loling@ur life kid
In my days, piracy was almost as expensive as the product

I pirate on my consoles, get fucked.

Demos != refunds, just as user pointed out piracy!= refunds

Wow he got away with it. The absolute madman

I'm talking about internet piracy
The point still stands, piracy was and still gonna exist until the end of time

>You are not entitled to a demo
I bet you never try the clothes out before buying them either, right?

>I've determined this is what you are, and you are this regardless of fact or argument, I've already decided!
Alright buddy, you go ahead and live in your little fantasy world where everything is as you imagined. You've pretty much stated it's pointless to try and argue, as you haven't even the slightest inclination to listen.

But if you refuse to listen, why the fuck should people listen to you?

Well they pay people beforehand, and then they hope the game Will make enough money to make up for the costs and then some.

The "drain" is a trade: you are paying money for entertainment.

>daily reminder
You do know you will have to post this everyday now or your mother will die in her sleep tonight, right?

>morally
Disregard spooks acquire a better life.
I do accept that m8, and it's doing a lot for me. Not only do I want free shit, but I'm perfectly justified in my selfishness.

Are you really so delusional that you think not a single pirate has ever enjoyed a game he pirated and then not paid for it anyway?

>G-guys listen to m-my t-totally legit a-anecdote! Those are totally legit in arguments rite?
Listen to this faggot.

I have a feeling that a lot of the "bait" posts are kids who own one console and are butthurt their parents wouldn't buy them a $1500 Alienware

please explain how a delayed crack do not mean more sales. do you simply think companies invest in denuvo more than ever, even though games like DA inquistion, Fifa, lords of the fallen got cracked after ~ 3 months? People wanna play games earlier then late, and people are obviously willing to pay for this. There WILL be people who buy rather than wait for crack since we are talking about around 100k people here (maybe millions in some cases.) How can u not comprehend this simple situation? Maybe you're simply thinking of yourself and Cred Forums where everyone is greedy because of their low to none income, and the fact that paying 60 dollars for a game is basically theft?

It's actually legal to walk out on check if you aren't satisfied with the restaurant's food. They can call the cops but legally you can't be arrested or sued for not paying your meal. At best the restaurant has the right to refuse service to you.

>worth sixty dollars

Just like no man's sky right? That was totally 60 dollars worth of content right there.

Are you this retarded on purpose? If a game is ass, you can always return it. or do you take forever to try it out?

So you're not stealing from the people who made the game and actually matter in any way, you're stealing from their jew bosses?
Cool.

>I want to steal this, but stealing is wrong
>I know! I'll make up some fantasy about this stealing actually being just because it's for a good reason!
>Look! Other people who also wanted to steal but couldn't do it because they too feel stealing is wrong! They all agree with me! Wow I'm amazing! I'm like a hero for stealing!

Then don't play it. You've NEVER finished a game all the way through and then said "eh, it's not worth my dollars." Right user?

>I've never downloaded music or a movie before

Yes.

Depends on country.

>Make a product you know in advance can be reproduced infinitely for near-zero cost
>Complain when a portion of the product's users do exactly that instead of giving you money
I'm not against paying for videogames, and I do appreciate the argument that the labour put into a product can be worth paying for (assuming you can ensure that payment actually goes to the creators), but the cries of piracy 'harming' the industry ring hollow when those cries come from companies making money from the industry. Whenever anyone part of the vidya industry complains about piracy, they just sound like BRs to me.

Deal with it.

>Witcher 3 and Undertale

You can't tell me with a straight face that there wasn't enough material floating around the internet a week after those games' releases to make an informed decision without ever playing the game.

But even putting that all aside for the moment, I can see that you have a massive misunderstanding about how transactions work in the entertainment industry as a whole.

In your little world, something is either absolutely worth playing, or it's not. It's binary. Black and white.

In the real world, there are things that are extremely good, and there are things that are offensively bad, but there is a spectrum. If I go see a movie, unless that movie is OFFENSIVELY BAD, I'm not going to demand a refund, and I'm certainly not going to try to download a cam or whatever to see the movie before I go decide to see the movie. If it was mediocre, I'll chalk it up to a misleading ad campaign or decide that it simply wasn't for me, shrug my shoulders, and move on with life.
I'll take responsibility for my own actions, in other words.

When you break entertainment down to EITHER 100% Absolutely worth playing OR 0% utter trash, what you're really doing is absolving yourself of any responsibility over your own consumption habits.
What you're doing, is you're saying you're above it all. You're not going to fall for any marketing tricks! You're going to be a discerning, astute consumer!

You tell yourself you're very selective over the media you consume.
And you do that by demanding to consume everything all the time.

That's the heart of this whole affair. It's not about the media or the industry. Not really. Debating that is all well and good, but really, this is about you.

This is about using the industry as a scapegoat, because you can't control your own consumption habits.

Whenever someone on Cred Forums calls a game bad based only on gameplay footage, they get completely shit on for not having even played it. Why would you think it's good enough to decide whether to buy?

>go to restaurant
>order $50 meal
>eat it
>eh, it wasn't worth my money, I'll just walk out. They should cook better next time lol.

Pirates think this is ok.

Hello Games doesn't have a monopoly over all video games. They have the right to charge sixty thousand dollars if they want to.

Oh I bet youre still playing it to this day user. I definitely believe you got your money's worth!

Different user here. I bought Mass Effect 2 for dirt cheap, played all the way through, and then said to myself 'that wasn't worth the pittance I paid for it.'

And I never bought another game for myself again.

I don't walk out around with them and return them seven days later saying "Nah, not interested."

Are you so delusional as to think there is any merit in making a claim you have no way of proving, and no way to determine the severity or effect of? Your entire basis is that 'it's plausible that this happens at some point!' which is utterly ridiculous. Argue with facts, not plausible 'could be' bullshit.

Yea, some people will pirate to outright 'steal' a game, and some people will pirate, discover they like the game, and then buy it.

I'm not the one making retarded, grandiose statements that; 'this happened that one time so it's always going to be true!' or even anything that implies as much.

But imagine that the people who 'steal' the games never did so, they went in with the mindset that the game was not worth buying, even if they liked it after pirating it they never would have spent money on learning this, so they are in no capacity a lost sale. Yea, it's a dick move to then not buy the game you enjoyed so much, but it's not exactly a loss to the developers that the guy pirated in the first place.

>he probably steals too, I do it and I don't know how else can everything be done

I'm talking about the US and U.K., might be different in other countries.

Gr8 b8, you're gonna get a lot of (You)s with this one.

Look whats happened to the movie industry, no one will take risks only releasing tried and test formulas because everyone watches movies for free on the internet...gaming has pretty much gone the same way this gen and will only get worse, thanks pirates for fucking it up for everything, thanks alot.

I hope Trump eliminates all freedom of speech and privacy rights so we can put niggers like you in jail.

The only reason they charged 60 is because Sony backed them and they all felt they could justify the price of 60. If Sony had not backed them, NMS would've been another 15 dollar indie dev game on steam.

I've done exactly that a few times. Not sure how many times I finished the whole meal before walking out without paying, I can definitely remember a couple of times I didn't bother finishing, can't say for certain about the other times.

I didn't buy it. Because I did 5 minutes of
R E S E A R C H

Yeah right that's totally not because of the massively inflated production costs.

You absolute retard.

So you admit that you're a liar about having never in your life downloaded music or movies before?

>This is about using the industry as a scapegoat

Ironic coming from the side using piracy as a scapegoat

You are absolute cancer if you think people should support bad or even mediocre games with their money

>/t/

Fuck and I thought /3/ was the least remembered board.

>The only reason they charged 60 is because Sony backed them
So? They still have the right to charge that much and people should not expect refunds after they make uninformed decisions. Literally all people had to do was wait like a day for all the negative feedback to come out about that shit game.

Well, sort of. You have to make a complaint, and have the manager refuse you a refund.

And if they keep you from leaving, you can sue them for false imprisonment and put their rat-infested shithole out of business.

I didn't buy it nor did I pirate it. There's still tens of thousands who actually did pirate it to determine whether it was shit or not.

>food analogy

Opinion discarded

Games ARE either worth playing or they aren't. You don't look at a game and go "It's pretty decent, so it's worth half a play through" you look at a game and decide if it's worth playing at all.

I'm as anti-pirate as possible, but I don't think we can solely blame pirates for modern games being shit. Creativity is hard, it comes in waves, and most people are not creative. You can't expect the industry to keep pumping out amazing classics every year, no industry does that.

Popular literature, for example, has been shit ever since the printing press was invented, long before piracy was a problem.

>I want to steal this
It's not theft, in any capacity whatsoever. I cannot imagine you're over 18 years of age and have never learned to make sure you understand the basic definitions relevant in an argument before having it.
>I know, I'll make up some fantasy
Dismissing people's arguments as fantasy without ever hearing them is why you keep regurgitating falsehoods and bullshit, and then probably ask yourself why no one is listening to you (probably deciding it's because they're all just evil amoral thieves, too)

How about when you talk to people you actually listen, instead of erecting this asinine strawman and talking to that.

80℅ of people who pirates games are just digital hoarders they download it, put in their folder and never touch it again.
18℅ try it and buy it if they like it.
2℅ just want free shit.

But you do try them out. Hypocritical much?

>Tells someone not to make retarded, grandiose statements about a plausible reality
>Argues that a guy who pirated would definitely have never spent the money in the real world with 0 evidence

>70%
>of physical copies
>for PS4 and Xbone

>Look whats happened to the movie industry
You mean a thriving b-movie sector and a thriving independent scene to counteract the bloated 'all or nothing' model of the tentpole productions?

>port is shit
>gimmie that shit so i can confirm it's shit

>port is not shit
>meh, i'll buy it on sale.

Maybe it's just me that does this.

>Needing to download the whole game just to "try it out"

Gee I wonder where all the negative feedback came from?
The market is more than just us on Cred Forums that actually have gaming as a hobby. You all call them normies, the masses. How are they to make an informed decision? SOMEONE HAS TO BUY THE GAME.

>Unironically using Jew

When the company doesn't get any money, they don't make games, and then those makers don't get any money anymore and have to go elsewhere. It's not direct but it gets there somewhere.

Can you give me the percentage of fake statistics?

I have and I fully realize that I should be paying for it, but I don't want to. But I'm not a pussy that needs to delude myself into feeling like the good guy.

When you start spreading a moral justification for a harmful behavior, more people will engage in that behavior. Too much of something like that is bad for all parts of the industry, but especially the singleplayer game market.

I played 20 hours of no man's sky and will never pay a single cent for it. Suck my cock

S-sorry you're too much of a self absorbed faggot to know when you're in the wrong.

That's why I just download the demo that they released! Oh wait...

They used to give demos. Why don't they do that anymore?

If pirates are to blame why are they not arrested and fined for theft?

>pirates are to blame for industry rehashes
>if everyone was forced to pay for bad games the industry would be more original and creative

This is what moralfags actually believe

God bless you user. This information will surely spread like a wildfire to show everyone that piracy is everything but stealing. Please show us the obvious evidence with a source or two, would you? Thank you for your work great user. And remember, the truth is always out there!

>single player games

Seriously. You want the entire industry to be online-only and iOS shit, this is how you do it.

That's different though. I try on clothes to make sure they fit, not that they look good. The only way you are entitled to a game refund if that it does not function as intended or is glitchy, not if "it's shit".

Plus, a day long trial is different than wearing a jacket for two minutes.

I'd gladly download a demo, but developers don't release demos anymore. They're hiding the content of their games as much as possible because they know they're garbage.

>Games ARE either worth playing or they aren't.

That's not true.
Even the best game has flaws.

If you go actively looking for a reason to not like a game, you'll find it, in literally any game ever made ever.

The hunt for "the perfect game" is flawed, fruitless, and futile. That's how you end up with five separate threads about how "There's no good games in 2016!" when there were, in fact, tons. People too pre-occupied with finding flaws than actually enjoying themselves.

Posts like this is why I can't take anti pirate posts seriously It's just authoritarian cunts flinging shit at everyone

>I'm too lazy to google

Nice response, fatass. You sure showed them.

>If pirates are to blame why are they not arrested and fined for theft?
Not worth the time/money I guess

>In your world
No, that's actually the assumption your argument is based on.

See, the story isn't so simple as you make it out to be, and popular opinion does absolutely fuck all to represent the merits and values or a product, as you said but apparently didn't even understand, it's not fucking binary, it's not black and white.

Now, the rest of your bullshit is just continuing some ridiculous strawman that has nothing to do with anything I said, and extrapolates a flaw in your own reasoning, so I see little point in refuting any of that bullshit.

Now, I don't know about you, user. But I try on my shirts before I buy them, I walk around in those new shoes I'm interested in for a bit before going to the register, and I make damn sure that everything I buy comes with a proper refund policy and warranty.

Video games still lack that, and my options are to either not get any video games ever, or pirate them to see if they're worthwhile and then make my decision based on my experience with the product. Now, the developer doesn't notice a damn thing about my piracy habits, it doesn't cost them anything, and at worst they lose nothing because I didn't like their game. At best they gained a sale where they otherwise wouldn't have had one. My, I'm such an incredibly selfish and evil bastard!

Now, once more, it's not fucking black and white, it's not 'pirate OR buy' but you seem to think it must be, which is comically stupid at best.

>It's not theft, in any capacity whatsoever.
I-it's different than the bad stealing! It's good stealing!
>Dismissing people's arguments as fantasy without ever hearing them is why you keep regurgitating falsehoods and bullshit
Oh I've heard them. They're all vague in their reasoning, and can be summarized by "Let's see, what can I use to morally justify my stealing... Ah! This game has some devs that used to work on another dev team that worked for EA! Bam, pirated!"
>How about when you talk to people you actually listen
Listen and believe!

We're talking about music, movies and TV shows. I'm sure you know how huge the scale of piracy is across all these platforms.
I'm no fucking good guy, I pirate when I want to and buy when I want to. I actually pirate as much as I buy. No one needs to justify pirating because nearly everyone that understands computers has pirated before. It doesn't matter if it's a movie, music or games.

If you're posting on Cred Forums there's a 99% chance you have pirated music, porn, movies or otherwise broken copyright law in some fashion. Trying to deny it just makes you look retarded.

>gamestop trades hurt devs
Boy consoles are not more friendly to devs, considering the tech limits, picky licencing and such.

Screencapped to disprove future Denucucks

I've played bad games and I literally would not have been able to play them several times without shooting myself. He obviously did not think it was a bad game. Only said so.

Demo back then meant a way to sell other games of developers back when not everyone had the internet or knew what genres of games there are.
Now you have more information about everything, more than you need actually, there's no need for demos.

darnit, and to think that we were so close to the truth. If only we hade more courage and time to actually stop this lie about piracy being shit once and for all. May you find rest in the afterlife.

You can't appraise the value without going through appraisal, in vidya's case, playing the game.

>Argues that...
Except that argument was never anywhere but in your head, user.

Hell, the post you're quoting has this amazing word that you do not seem to comprehend 'some' which is this very fancy, nigh incomprehensible way of saying 'abso-fucking-lutely-not-everyone'

But hey, don't let me stop you from making a fool of yourself.

>some literal nobody posts made up statistics
>ha take that Denuvofags

>pirating music when Spotify Free + No ads software exists.

Shirts and food are a shit analogy!
Because one's a needed resource and the other is a luxury product, faggot.

Also everyone is a faggot that loves gay niggers, don't forget about that.

>steam refunds always work
lolno. And if I'm skeptical on whether or not I'm going to like the game, why buy it for $60 and risk Steam not accepted the return?

anti-pirate fags are the worst.

>Listen and believe!

That's what you're saying when you refer to piracy as stealing, despite the courts and the dictionary stating otherwise.

The point I'm trying to make is you CAN in fact make an informed decision about a game without involving piracy.

Hell, you CAN, in fact, do it without ever actually touching the game yourself, but if you're absolutely adamant about playing it, refunds are a thing that exist.

>do you have to pay before you test drive a car too?

No, but there are a shittonne of things (especially retail and services) where the model is "buy/pay for the shit, if you aren't satisfied, return it for a refund."

You can't take anything off the shelf in Walmart and walk out saying," lol, imma gonna take this now and if I like it, I'll come back and pay for it then."

Steam has this same exact model: buy it, and if you don't like it, get the refund.

The comparison to retail products/purchases is far more appropriate, accurate, and relevant than test driving a fucking $20,000 car.

> console gamers
> not pirating
yeah, we saw that when the vita was hacked

Yea wow user, you sure told me! Guys, this guy told me "you're wrong" and this, on top of bringing me on this amazing nostalgia trip back to kindergarten, totally convinced me that I was indeed wrong!

>being a fucking denucuck
Kill yourself.

>20 hours into that piece of shit
Your time really isn't worth much.

You sure showed me. Chins jiggling with anger, are they?

LOL seems about right. I have 6tbs worth of movies and games. I barely play games as it is but I still hoard them. Every now and then I'll install one and maybe play for like 30 minutes and never play again.
I really wish I was into gaming like I used to be.
>tfw when I hoard them just for that small chance of me wanting to play them.
>tfw I never do

Being an adult kinda sucks but hey, money money money

Adding "cuck" to your every post doesn't win you any arguments

I don't get the purpose of this thread. Pirates are already convinced that they are infallible and all games are already theirs because they don't give two fucks about supporting devs of even good games and nothing will ever be able to change that.

All you're doing is inviting endless bitching about "moralfags" and how pirating is perfectly ok. Almost the whole board was against you from the outset so why bother?

>I'm sure you know how huge the scale of piracy is across all these platforms.
It is, and it could be worse with moral justifications running rampant.
>I'm no fucking good guy, I pirate when I want to and buy when I want to. I actually pirate as much as I buy. No one needs to justify pirating
This is my point, I'm glad you agree.

So why not avoid moving your money around until you are ready to purchase something?
I mean only underage and poorfags never spend anything. Most people throw in cash just because they like the game. That's how LoL and tons of other successful games make their money.

>being
>a
>denucuck
Kill. Your. Self.

>All these replies missing the point of this user.
The character literally asks if the fat guy wants to "try" his awesome game.

>thinking that pirates buy

denuvo has proven that even advanced drm does not influence sales all that much

>durr da pirates is why we sold out to consoles

they sold out to consoles because they are cynical cash grabbers, fuck Epic in particular

I wouldn't say that 18% actually do that. Maybe 10%?

o god damn it, i see here face and i need to fap. u sick bastard.

>harmful behavior

Funny how no one has been able to show demonstrable harm from said behavior. All we've gotten so far are appeals to morality and hamhanded mental gymnastics like "PIRACY IS BAD BECAUSE DEVS ARE AFRAID OF PIRACY "

>You CAN
Okay, do a better job of explaining how, because so far all you've said is
>Listen to the opinions of others!
Which is retarded.
>Okay, how about watching footage on youtube!
W3 is an example of how that doesn't work. Not only does that not reveal the horrendous control issues the game has, it says nothing about performance and other issues games might have.

So tell me, how exactly do you make an informed decision about a product without trying it out yourself, granting that the opinions of others and gameplay footage are not suitable means in any capacity.

>Refunds are a thing that exists
And you seem to know nothing about them, most gaming platforms do not allow refunds, and if they do they've got all sorts of rules and conditions to them and try to discourage you from using the refund system to try out games. Not to mention the publisher pays the transaction fees involved in the whole thing, which means doing this method is actually costing them (a trivial amount of) money.

>That's different though.
No, really, if you think about it it's not that different after all.

>I try on clothes to make sure they fit, not that they look good.
You don't try the game to see if it looks good either. You try it out to see if it meets your expectations and criteria, whcih is not always something that reviews/gamepaly videos can cover.

>The only way you are entitled to a game refund if that it does not function as intended or is glitchy, not if "it's shit".
No, glitches and bugs are not the same as expecations, nor are they the same as clothes fitting properly.

Following your logic, you are not entitled to try the clothes out either- you can just look if it's not damaged. After all, it was made to fit someone.

>Plus, a day long trial is different than wearing a jacket for two minutes.
The best solution is to release demos with a limited amount of content- the problem is, demos are becoming more and more rare these days.

Demos are not even expensive or hard to make, it's just that companies know properly informed custmers would hurt the sales- and since they can get away with not releasing any demos, they don't do it.

>implying people don't get music on their phones
Like I said, you can't leave out "normies". Sure some might use Pandora etc etc but most will still have music on their device for when they want to listen to certain songs. People like you and me only make up a small tiny percentage of the market.

Are you high?

not worth it. It can take months to years, and in some countries you have to face legal rights like privacy. Can we gather evidence that this person illegaly downloaded this product, and if so, are the Internet providers forced to show this, or is it against privacy? Internet providers obviously dont want to show anything about the customers private life(since more customers=more money), so the answer is often NO. Even if they are forced to show that a person illegaly downloaded a product, how much is he gonna pay? is there a price for piracy no matter the seeding, or is the price different depending on the amount of seeding?

Delicious.

If it's not stealing in people's minds, there would be no need for moral justifications. I'm sorry you're so desperate to remove the stigma from piracy that you'd split hairs. God forbid you walk somewhere without that golden moral carpet laid how before your feet.

>Listen, I really don't care if you pirate or not

It's amazing how in denial you are while accusing everyone else of denial

Why are you an asshole for avoiding refunds?
I mean fuck, there is no difference in pirating and refunding. Only good quality assures success.

Why can't pirates wait for a trusted streamer or reviewer to share information on a game before buying? A lot of them tore no mans sky and aliens:CM a new asshole and convinced myself and others not to buy it. Would it have not done the same for you?

OP seems in the right here. Can any of you prove me wrong on this point?

Car test drives.

And no, cars are not a needed resource either.

dENUKEK KYS

I doubt it could get worse. Ask anyone if they've ever download music, a show or game. I'm inclined to say 9/10 at least will say yes.

>let's plays

>golden moral carpet laid out* before your feet.
whoops

of course not. I was just joking like you joked about the statistics that you so elegantly brought up!

here's my philosophy:
>pirate the game to see if you like it
>buy the real game if you like it

>Starts losing the argument because he accidentally committed the error he was bitching about
>Better act like I'm not the dumbass! H-he is!
Pro-tip: The original argument was that there are indeed pirates who never pay for things. You just got hyper autistic in your effort to defend being poor.

I pirated DOOM cuz I'm poor and I could. I was going to get it during the last Steam sale but got more better games than just one.

I'll miss not having Steam play time but damn this games fun. The shooting feels fucking good and holy shit the gore is great. Not gonna lie though I think the graphics looked a lot sharper in that reveal video.

or maybe it isn't theft, since pirates have been arrested and sued before.

They actually are in a lot of circumstances. Depends on your occupation and how good your towns transit system is. You sound like a spoiled city kid desu.

Strawman arguments are worse.

But I don't want to pay for games. I don't do it because I want to "test", I just want THE GAME.
And I hate the industry, if it died tomorrow I'd go back to playing old games and be happy with my collection.

Leeching on today's market is just an added bonus.

Actually a lot of people streaming on YT and twitch say nice things about the game. I was reading the chats and so many people were saying things along the lines of "oh God I can't to get it". A couple of days after that, a lot of people would discourage people from buying it in the chat.

>restaurant food
>expensive clothes

>"needed resource"
Maybe in your world you spoiled little brat.

It's not stealing literally. It has nothing to do with what it is in people's minds, it's by no means stealing.

Not to mention no one has given you moral justifications, learn what those are before using those fucking words you cretin. A justification is by no means by definition a moral one.

A moral justification would be 'it's alright for me to steal, because he stole from me as well'

If devs cared about customers they would make demos.
But they often don't

>Why don't they do that anymore
Turns out that showing off your game led to "reduced sales" since publishers are psychic and could determine the amount of sales they would have had otherwise. The real answer is that people called them out for their games being shit thanks to demos letting them know.

I buy games that I feel need it. Have no problem pirating DOOM or the new Tomb Raider.

>you have more information about everything, more than you need actually

You have brain damage

That doesn't happen nearly as often as piratefags like to believe it does.

>Resorting to literally putting words into someones mouth after getting utterly BTFO
user, why even bother with such pathetic behavior? What are you trying to prove here?

Console players do this exact same thing the very nanosecond their machine gets cracked/homebrewed/etc. too.

I will stop pirating when they make demos again

Games worth paying for don't happen nearly as often as buyfags like to believe they do.

>>some literal nobody posts made up statistics

Anti pirates in a nutshell

>Source; My ass
Okay.

>N-nobody has shown me conclusive evidence about how EVERY SINGLE VIDEO GAME PUBLISHER/DEVELOPER NO EXCEPTIONS is harmed, so it's not morally wrong to pirate!

No, they are not. They are purely a convenience and if they are need for work, you should be provided with one. Do you think taxi drivers buy their cabs?

Restaurant food and brand clothes are not a necessity, either.

Sonyggers are just jealous that they have to rob a bestbuy wverytime they want the new Fifa.

>P-please don't notice how I had to drag the goalpost to a different continent to try and make this point
user... jesus fuck man, get help, how the fuck do you rationalize being this pathetic? I mean really, nobody is dumb enough to read the post you replied to and think your response is anything but retarded drivel... just why? Why do something so utterly pathetic?

>pretty much every AAA console game is on PC
>even weebshit is getting ported
>devs move to other markets
kek

>The point I'm trying to make is you CAN in fact make an informed decision about a game without playing the game yourself

Funny how this logic doesn't hold up whenever someone shit talks a game they haven't played.

Hell you even see people getting shouted down for not playing a game past the first two hours and saying it's shit.

>I doubt it could get worse.
That's a terrible thing to say man.

I'm not talking about restaurant food and expensive clothes, cunt.

>The comparison to retail products/purchases is far more appropriate

Not really since most media products allow you to sample/demo/trial in some form.

Refunds are not demos, especially when they're tied to 2hr limit that can never be reset

>>buy* the real game if you like it
*Note: After the game's price has gone down to $20, and only during a 80% off sale

Funny thing is that trend you're talking about also leads to OP image occurring.

You sound fat

Thread

>So why not avoid moving your money around until you are ready to purchase something?

You shouldn't.

The problem is, you should be ready to move money around when the product in question appeals to you enough to compel you to play it.
NOT when you're 100% certain it's 100% absolutely worth your time.

Entertainment media is ALWAYS a gamble. That's the nature of the beast. I'm not saying you shouldn't make as informed a decision beforehand as possible, I'm saying demanding a game be 100% perfect before you purchase is only hurting you in the long run, both because nothing ever gets purchased, because nothing will ever be 100% worth buying, and because when you pirate something with the intent to see if it's worthwhile, people tend to look for reasons why it's NOT, meaning your entire perception of the experience is negatively tinted, whether you intended it to be or not. If you find something that appeals to you on a surface level, purchase it, and decide in the end that you didn't like it, it's because the game itself was allowed to speak for itself, NOT because you were hyper-critical of it.
People who buy things tend to enjoy the things they buy more. That's scientifically proven.

>Aren't these strawman arguments convincing!?
Really user? Really?

Only during a bug on steam that makes the game cost 0,05$ instead of 50.0$

I like how you bring up No Man's Sky when moralfags were literally begging valve not to honor refunds because "muh cavet emptor"

Not the guy you are replying to but whats the fucking point in replies like these? Why don't you try articulating yourself?

>there is no difference in pirating and refunding.

Are you retarded?

>trusted streamer or reviewer
Lol

Then I guess you're right. We are still in the infant age of Technology after all. Things can change drastically over the next decade let alone the next 50 years.

>release multiplat
>6 million™ sales on piss4 alone, not counting bone
>30k sales on PC
That's why consoles get focus, even with their cucked hardware. Buy some games, support them coming on PC. Especially weebshit.

Removing piracy will just cause people to stop playing games.
Some people only play shit that is free.
Others will not buy things they can't try.
Removing piracy will not help sales, just slow down the publicity and attention the games get, which leads to less people knowing about the game and makes it more likely to be irrelevant.

Here's my philosophy: Never pay for something you can get for free

If I said your favorite game was shit without ever playing it because a trusted streamer or reviewer said so you and the rest of Cred Forums would tear me a new asshole

Cars and games can't be compared either you absolute idiot!

Let me clarify! Games are ENTERTAINMENT!!!

Compare ENTERTAINMENT-PRODUCTS to other ENTERTAINMENT-PRODUCTS!!

Cars are for TRANSPORT!

TRANSPORT IS NOT ENTERTAINMENT!

Do you get me yet??

I never advocate for the piracy of games that are still sold. It shows that the developer wants money for it, and even if I hate them, I won't take their game without paying. I feel like I'm no better than a company like EA if I think I'm above the law there.

However, I'll always be in neutral territory when it comes to games no longer made, and/or abandonware. Nobody is selling it, and collectors illegally make knockoff copies to sell at hundreds of dollars. So I'm out of luck if I want to play them legitimately. IT sucks.

>It's not stealing literally
>I-it's not the same exact type of stealing that society says it's bad, so it's okay!
>Not to mention no one has given you moral justifications
>A moral justification would be 'it's alright for me to steal, because he stole from me as well'
"It's okay to steal, because the industry is evil".
Or what you're doing, just attacking the stigma of pirating by saying there shouldn't be one. Or claiming piracy doesn't have any negative effects so there's no reason to justify anything.

Give me a break. Pirate if you want, stop trying to justify it with your mental gymnastics. That type of thinking leads to immorality, as you start to feel like anything is okay as long as you can rationalize it.

They are too busy blowing blizzard for revenue.

That's how I feel.

>Out of Print game
>Abandonware
>Leaked content
>fangames
>Fan translation of a non-released game
All okay.

>A game that is readily available in your region
Not okay.

>It's always a gamble
No, it's not, and you thinking it should be allowed to be is the problem.

Most consumer products come with warranties and legally mandated quality standards, the fact that video games are yet to have those doesn't excuse them breaking all standards of acceptable quality, and the consumer should not be taking gambles on whether or not your product meets acceptable quality standards. This isn't just up to 'did you like this entertainment product?' this is 'was this product what was actually sold to you' or 'did this product actually function'

All things you'd never really be able to know unless you've used it, and you cannot get a refund for false advertising and dysfunctional products after the fact.

Realistically, everyone who has ever bought Mass Effect 3 should to this very day still be entitled to a refund, simply because it was explicitly sold as being something it ultimately wasn't (claiming the ending would be different than it was) but media is a loophole and they're exploiting it. The consumer not accepting being exploited isn't the problem here, so kindly fuck off.

>blaming pirates instead of greedy big publishers
You just don't get it

>since pirates have been arrested and sued before.

Citation? Unless he was mass seeding or owned a piracy site then I dont think many people have been chased for the past 4-5 years.

Cred Forums is for shitposting only. Like /trash/

>i dont like piracy, and it is objectively stupid
That's not what objectively means you faggot.

>denuvo has proven that even advanced drm does not influence sales all that much

that line is not correct. No one has proved anything, and you will never be able to prove this 100 %. How did you come up with the idea that denuvo doesnt influence sales? did you simply look at bitcher 3, notice it has extremly high sales, and then just assume that a game so easy and trouble free to pirate as evidence? More games are using denuvo than ever, that than anyhing tells me that denuvo DO influence sales. Either way, its obvious that it does. The question is, is denuvo worth that sale difference? This we do not know yet

This, a true artist would never make art for profit. That goes against the idea of art itself. If you lock your art behind a paywall, you are a sellout and a fraud.

Watching videos of a game doesn't give you a good idea of what it's like to play it. It needs a demo, in the same way that I want to see a trailer of a movie, not hear the plot synopsis.

Do you torrent movies then if you liked it buy a ticket to go see it in theaters?

>she

Lol those people are wrong about everything.
Lol that trailer is not enough.
Lol that demo is too short.
Lol that gameplay video is too long.
Lol video games are shit anyway.
Lol not wasting my precious time.
Lol I hate those devs for their games, but I'll play their game.
Lol the price is too high.

I agree with what you said. For a while I used to pirate almost every game for DS because I owned an R4. But in the end, I felt way more satisfied when buying a game than just...taking it.

That's okay, user
A lot of people here probably can't tell a difference between /po/ and Cred Forums

My usual rule with games and piracy is an easy one.

If there is a demo? Then get the demo.
If not? Yo ho ho it and play for either an hour or til I get past the first level / checkpoint / etc. (Basically past any tutorial)

I do this mainly to see if I can enjoy the game or if it will even run on my PC. Its more of a test really.

If I enjoy it. I'll go out and buy it. No problem. If I don't enjoy it. I'll just shrug. Delete. and move on with my life.

With consoles this is harder because demos are dead. A few games still have them and I"m grateful for that. Usually I get demos for games I'm only interested in though.

So basically its at the point where I only pirate if it is a game I'm already considering buying.

Also sometimes I even have to pirate it after buying because the game doesn't work because of some antique DRM that is no longer support (Securom) or because the verification server is being flooded or some crap.

A sports car is entertainment, as is an off road vehicle.
And both are luxury items. You may think you need a car, but needs are things you cannot live without.
Honestly your understanding of consumer-producer relations is terrible. Refusal to allow demoing any product, from game to car, is a shady business practice. Why do you think movies have trailers and songs are played on the radio?

No user, copyright infringement is literally not theft in any capacity, you cannot be arrested and tried for theft when all you've done is infringe copyright.

One of the main reasons piracy is so damn hard to shut down is because it isn't theft, and it's extremely difficult to prosecute someone for piracy due to how intellectual property law works (it's nigh impossible and absolutely not worth the effort to persecute an individual who commits copyright infringement for purely personal use)

Now, I have no idea why you're so retarded to enter an argument without understanding it's basic definitions, but stop, look up what you need to know, and stop talking out of your ass.

And lastly, stop with the bullshit of telling me that I think something different from what I say, if you cannot be bothered to listen to me or believe what I tell you then there is absolutely no reason for you to speak at all, because you're not talking to me, you're talking to some strawman you've made up and decided must represent me and everyone like me.

If you cannot be bothered to give someone benefit of doubt in a discussion, the discussion is over, and you're just childishly repeating yourself, to yourself.

Agreed.

>All things you'd never really be able to know unless you've used it

But that's not even remotely true, though.

I've never touched a Digital Homicide game in my life, for example, and I could very easily tell you they're utter shit and not worth playing.

Same with Mass Effect 3. I could tell you ALL ABOUT the misleading ending without ever having touched the game. That's all a part of being an informed consumer.

Source: my ass

I pirate shit because I'm poor.

I don't justify it because It is a shitty thing to do.

>piracy isn't stealing

Yes it is. When you buy a game you are not just buying the digital content of the game. You are paying for a service (ie entertainment). If you don't pay you are stealing the service.

>Games I pirated and never will buy
200h skyrim
120h New Vegas
20h Borderlands 2
12h Sim City (newest one)
30h Sims 3
4h Cities: Skylines
600h Minecraft (go a cracked version in 2012 still play from time to time to this day)
Civ 4 and 5
COD: MW 1-3
Blops 1 and 2
Stellaris
Hearts of Iron 4
Spore
Game Dev Tycoon
Tomas was alone

>Games I bought after pirating
Factorio

>(You)
sales are an illusion. besides, im feel the personal incentive to preorder from a developer who creates an appealing franchise.

So if an artist wants to survive off their craft...how do they make money?

Just saying. I do draw regularly, and having a job while drawing can really hamper productivity, you know. Not that I make money from my art yet.

>I only pirate to play for an hour to see if it works

Is the same as saying
>I only read Playboy for the articles
or
>Some of my closest friends are gay!

Sure, it might put you on higher moral ground, but you still look like a tool.

Also, it's utterly useless as an argument because it's unprovable and unenforceable.

Are you fucking serious? Please user, tell me. Tell me how many people pirated it?

yeah, well some people in this world are dicks
>some pirates aren't dicks, and one day the dev notices their ship is back in the harbor with a new sail and some extra booty for the DLC, or next title

Devs have forced my hand to pirate because I have been burned by shit like Fallout 4

>The problem is, you should be ready to move money around when the product in question appeals to you enough to compel you to play it.
It doesn't hence the reason I torrent. If I didn't torrent I would have never bought skullgirls and all dlcs/soundtrack for full price.
And entertainment should have demos. Telling me not to pirate because media is a gamble is tell me to not be informed about the game. Fuck, its no different then when I borrowed Bloodborne, beat it in a day and never bought it. Why? Because I was expecting the quality other souls games had and was disappointing in the changes they went with. Even if I bought it I would have returned it day of and still played the entire game.

>I could very easily tell you that I was told they're utter shit and I believe it!
See there's the thing user, generally third-hand info is considered garbage, as would your opinions and claims there.

Yea, some cases are extremely obvious, well documented and substantiated, you could give me citation that demonstrates that Digital Homicide are all garbage, but how long since the release of those products did that take? If everyone holds to those ideals of yours then it'd never have come to light in the first place.

As for ME3, are you seriously suggesting that you go out and read up on everything up to and including the ending of a product and that's totally fine? Do you realize how ridiculous that sentiment is or do I need to spell it out to you? Are you suggesting the only games people play are these well-documented pieces and obscure, unknown pieces should never be consumed?

Yea developers would love that alternative to piracy! No. No I think they'll just leave it as is, because that alternative or even a lesser version of it is extremely bad for sales.

>>i dont like piracy, and it is objectively stupid
>That's not what objectively means you faggot.

It is objectively stupid. Not only is it stealing, but it is morally wrong to steal. And if we think from an economical stand point, if it was legal to pirate games, the whole industry and its product would lose quality since the sales would decrease.
>b-but user, not all will simply pirate products if that's the case, there will always be people who feel the moral need to buy a product.
Eat a massive cock and stfu. You have no idea of how many people that will be. And since we live in a universe were the way of life is to simply survive and become stronger, simply pirating a game will OBJECTIVELY be more efficient for yourself as an individual since you get the product AND you save money. You cannot think like a carrot and suggest that humanity will cooperate as an entity so that the majority will still buy products from a moral standpoint for companies to grow and make better products. that is why the world is not an anarchy and why we have stuff like governments! Amazing, is it not?

Okay. Then why do you need to claim you're fighting the good fight by pirating, if you think there's nothing wrong with it by itself?

Or are you just butthurt that I keep using the word "stealing"?

>Pirating AND preordering

your fedora is a bit too tight

>Yes it is
No, it's not. You're buying literally nothing but the right to use someone else's intellectual property, not doing so is not theft, same as not paying your taxes is not theft. Stop being fucking retarded and learn basic definitions for fucks sake. Repeat after me YOU CANNOT STEAL INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, YOU CANNOT STEAL SERVICES, STEALING IS A SPECIFIC WORD WITH A SPECIFIC MEANING AND IT DOESN'T APPLY TO ALL KINDS OF MISAPPROPRIATION YOU FUCKING BRAINDEAD FUCKWITS.

its difficult with PC games. What I would usually do back in the day was borrow a game from a friend who bought it and see if I would enjoy it then. With PC games you can't really do that.

also have you ever even read a playboy? The articles are practically the only things worth it and even then they aren't that great (at least not anymore).

I still do pre-order games from trusted devs though if that helps at all?

>I beat game in a day
>I experience the full game
>I refund it
>I experienced the entire game for free.
Its the same experiance as torrenting, I play the game and the dev gets nothing. Actually it costs the dev more because usually distributes keep there cut and dev pays that cut out of pocket to refund me my money.

its cool that you have that rule and all, but not everyone is you :/.

Artists get paid for their songs being played on the radio.
and movie trailers actually cost the company who puts them out.

You fail to specify what you talk about, and talk as if it's about expensive items in this case. But none of the anons specifically state if they talk about luxury items or the regular item.
A game is a luxury item nonetheless that you can easily live without.

>there would be no need for moral justifications
There isn't. You're despite to attach a stigma and demonize piracy as something it's not. All you have is moral grandstanding, setting yourself up to look even more retarded. It's like calling the difference between jaywalking and murder "splitting hairs"

>YOU CANNOT STEAL SERVICES

Ok bucky boy go to the barber shop, get a haircut, and not pay.

I started pirating when my PC was so shit every purchase was a gamble. Now even though I know I can kinda run all the games, I still pirate just to not waste 60 faggot coins on something I won't even play.
Also, the industry is so shit nowadays, that I just can't buy blindly into a game.
>B-but reviews, gameplays on youtube

Gameplays on youtube don't work for me, a game may seem amazing when watching it but I fucking hate actually playing it. It happened to me with Monster Hunter and a few other games.
Reviews and other people are just too unreliable for me, since piles of shit like No Man Sky seem like decent games from reviews or great games/games I really, really enjoyed get shitty reviews.
What the fuck am I supposed to do, have a bunch of games I literally didn't touch after playing once?

It's free shit.

>Being this butthurt that someone points out that pirating is basically stealing.
Maybe if you're so afraid of seeing yourself as a thief, you should maybe stop?

looks like you are stupid aswell. Didn't expect anything different from someone who can't understand the negative consequences of legalizing piracy.

>stop trying to justify it with your mental gymnastics.

Says the faggot trying to justify a false equivalence with your mental gymnastics and stuttering greentext memes

>The difference between jaywalking and murder is equivalent to the difference between stealing digital content and stealing physical items

>Why do you insist
I don't, that's all in your head, read what I'm saying and not what you want me to be saying or think I would be saying.

What I do, what I've done, is confront people with how blatantly false the bullshit they're claiming is, and your only response seems to be.
>"b-but it's immoral!"

If you really want to have that discussion then by all means, but start at the beginning. Why is piracy immoral, what about it is immoral?

Now let me tell you, you're not a philosopher, you've not studied the concept of morality and you know fuck all about it, so you have absolutely no chance of successfully having an argument about it, but you keep citing morality as if you understand it like some child regurgitating platitudes.

Also, it's cute that you try the whole
>"She's a witch!"
>No I'm not, I'm a nurse and I'm harvesting poppy for pain medication
>"See, she's making justifications for herself, she wouldn't do that unless she really was a witch!"

Really fucking funny that some morons still do this shit after becoming adults.

Yea, that's not stealing bucko, if the police arrest you then you're not going to trial for theft.

>Hurrr hurrr durrr durrr
How adorably stupid.

I'm offended you even entertained the idea of your bait being worthy enough to reply to me with.

>stealing digital content
Someone that bought the game gave me the files for the game.

k

I am a pirate, I won't justify what I'm doing because I literally just want to play games for free. I don't care whether the industry suffers from what I'm doing or not. There's really no point to whining about it either since you can't stop pirates.

>Fan translation of a non-released game
Some day you'll be given recognition Mother 3. Some day.

If you were in the dev's shoes, you would hate pirates too.

You're the reason that indie devs will never get to the same level as the big corporate devs and we're going to keep spiraling further down the DLC/microtransaction/turbojewery hole until they've beaten all the money left in gaming's dead corpse.

Meant for
Accidentally my entire post trying to delete a webm.

>mfw I'll never be able to play the original Grandia legitimately because it had references to blowing up twin towers, had you working with a race called the "Al Queda", and your destination involved climbing a wall with a character named Trump

Im sure the entire film industry, music industry, and video game industry will collapse because I pirated a kanye west song

Only a royalty is paid. That is different then the song.
Aside from that paying too hear music is retarded. Paying to go to a concert is different.
Its a supposed to be entertainment, and really, if someones music is not good enough to warrant a concert why pay anything? My life doesn't change and it forces more quality and activity from artists which is good for the industry.
Same concept, different practice from both movies and games. Devs need to earn their pay, they need to provide a quality that passes someones expectations enough to warrant whatever payment they ask for. Fuck, I preorder games that I am invested in unless they change heavily. Dead Rising 3 was a good example, I was ready to preorder, say gameplay, waited for release and torrent, and had my suspicion confirmed that it was not entertaining or quality like the older dead risings.

Although I agree with you, you aren't going to win any arguments with the liberal-tier style of "I am silly!" MScomics

and it will stay illegal since piracy will never work in real life, its just a wet dream that people somehow think would magically work.
>hey, companies are so rich today, legalizing piracy would merely scratch the surface of their enormous wealth.
kek, im like you. i guess i kinda feel shame of what im doing, and yes, i am a hypocrite. but nowadays, pirates dont face alot of justice, so why not pirate for my own sake?

Op is right, PC kiddies are always the shittiest to deal with. Multiplat dev here, aside from pirates and sex modders PC communities are 10 times as cancerous as console communities

Weird how you're making this distinction in a thread full of food analogies against piracy

The test drive : game demo analogy is apt, try actually refuting the central point instead of splitting hairs

Some of the most pirated games in existence have playable demos. You're fucking cancer

>Piracy is stealing and morally wrong
>Oh oops sorry what I meant to be saying is; Piracy is copyright infringement and legally wrong
>Please ignore the obvious and intentional misrepresentation, which actually IS morally reprehensible. Durn dose piratefags amirite?

What did you develop? Does it have a demo available? Who did you give it to in order to review it? How much are you charging for the game?

please discuss why im wrong and why you're right. im literally only here to hear what others have to say. no bait, reply with what you think.

Responding to your own post like that is pathetic an obvious, attention seeking pirate.

Finally!
First off. Thanks for telling me about the details on how it works with the music!
And thanks again for referring to games as Entertainment-medium. Because that's just what it is that i'm arguing!
Games are entertainment. I just hate it when certain anons use analogies like paying for food or clothes, because that's not comparable!

I haven't pirated a game in years thanks to steam refunds and the fact that there really aren't any non-buy worthy games I would bother downloading and cracking to play.

From my experience having demos of your game doesn't do shit to stop piracy. Pirates do what they do, whatever, but it's particularly rage inducing when they play the victim card and say things like "I'm trying not to get scammed!" It's fucking bullshit lol.

>How did you come up with the idea that denuvo doesnt influence sales?

How did you come with the idea that piracy hurts sales? Does correlation only equal causation when it suits your narrative?

>More games are using denuvo than ever, that than anyhing tells me that denuvo DO influence sales

That's not how it works. You don't get to ignore actual game sales in favor of an even bigger assumption that denuvo influences sales just because games use it.

fucking this

>I don't, that's all in your head, read what I'm saying and not what you want me to be saying or think I would be saying.
I read what you're saying. You're saying piracy isn't bad or wrong in any way shape or form. In that case, I'm sure you post against those trying to justify it, right? After all, by trying to justify it to oneself, such as by saying the industry is evil, one is basically saying there is a need to make it okay first.
>If you really want to have that discussion then by all means, but start at the beginning. Why is piracy immoral, what about it is immoral?
You're copying something without the creator's permission, something that the creator is selling for a profit. This behavior takes away from the creator's income and incentive for their creation. Something being immoral doesn't necessarily mean it means it conclusively harms them at even a small scale, it means that it's a behavior that, if allowed to become bigger, will cause conclusive harm.

The thing that prevents people from pirating, especially today when it's so easy to pirate, is that morality. By attempting to remove the stigma from piracy, or making up justifications, you are creating an environment where that behavior will increase.

You are literally arguing that consumers shouldn't minimize the risk when they "gamble" on entertainment. You are fucking cancer

>People who buy things tend to enjoy the things they buy more. That's scientifically proven

That's not what post purchase rationalization means you dope

Answer the question, faggot.

It's objectively your opinion that "piracy is stupid" therefore it is not objective at all you cunt, change it our I will get my dad to ban you from GameStop (he works there) and maybe a few EB game shops for good measure.

Anything else? My point is just because something is entertainment does not mean you are entertained by experiencing it. If a game is not up to your standards you should not pay for it, we should pay devs only to encourage them to create and master more content or continue series.

I am the same faggot who argued against food and clothing analogies, genius!

The test drive: Game demo analogy is stupid, because if you just keep the car after without paying, you're stealing it. so if you keep the pirated game after you played it, you're stealing too.
Fuck off.

>controversial topics generate more attention

wow what a surprise

>The test drive: Game demo analogy is stupid, because if you just keep the car after without paying, you're stealing

That's why you don't get to keep the game with a proper demo. Now you're the one making stupid car theft analogies to piracy you fucking idiot.

You can actually cure cancer
But you can't stop me from pirating ;^)

>You're saying that piracy isn't bad in any way shape or form
Except I've never said this, so there goes that notion out the window.

Care to try again?

Also your definition of immoral is laughable and utterly false, not to mention nonsensical. Why not use words properly instead of just picking a random phrase with a certain connotation and stapling it to the point you're trying to make.

There is nothing immoral about piracy, if you've any understanding of philosophy you'd know intellectual property in and of itself is immortal.
>B-but people who think of things have a right to those things!
Ignoring that they were only capable of ever thinking those things due to the efforts of others who have sustained them in life, and as such those people are also entitled to the fruits of their efforts. An argument that the financial compensation rendered to their services equals it's value is as misguided as it is false.

Piracy is illegal, breaking the law isn't morally wrong (otherwise, the founding of America and everything it resulted in is morally wrong, because people had to break laws to do it) so either make your case and do it properly, or stop blabbering nonsense because you don't know the meaning of the words you're trying to use.

Remember when Nintendo tried to argue that emulators are illegal, when just the roms are?
I also remember them saying that you're not allowed to even make a backup copy of a game you legally own, because you "might" give it to a friend.

He says in a thread full of pathetic, attention seeking moralfags

And that's a valid point. If a game doesn't entertain you, you shouldn't pay for it. All you can do is pre-inform yourself, or heck, purchase it. Sadly several stores won't let someone return games when they're already unpacked, and that's not fair.
Piracy isn't the solution, but there isn't anything else to be done until game companies do something against it that isn't shit that limits the general consumer.
Demos are always helpful.
Or making sure that games can be returned even if opened. Sure some might just speed through the game and return it (it's what I did a few times before after buying a game from a store that allowed returning opened copies) but nothing can ever be fully solved.

Yea i feel like i talked too long, i'll fuck off now.

You're fucking retarded. Some of the most successful best selling games have the most piracy.

I sure would love to be able to kill the movie industry by pirating.

I just watched the old boy remake made by the burger. My fucking god this was bad.

Hmh. Okay i guess i was wrong on that one. That's what happens when you get into shit too much! whoops.

Oh well!

>implying anything you say will sway pirates from the notion that they are infallible and perfect and hard work doesn't deserve money
>implying pirates care
>implying they don't think being cancer is ok since cancer is represented by a crab and crabs are fucking delicious

>It is objectively stupid. Not only is it stealing,

It's neither of these things, objectively and demonstrably. Your entire argument is null and void because it's based off a false premise

>, it might put you on higher moral ground, but you still look like a tool

The irony is staggering.

>>implying they don't think being cancer is ok since cancer is represented by a crab and crabs are fucking delicious

>it's utterly useless as an argument because it's unprovable and unenforceable

As opposed to the "lost sales" argument.

I'm more likely to see movies in the theater if I've liked the director's prior work after torrenting yeah

If movie piracy died tomorrow I wouldn't suddenly rush out to the theater to buy tickets for literally who movies just because they're marketed.

>When you buy a game you are not just buying the digital content of the game.
That's exactly what you are buying.

>You are paying for a service (ie entertainment). If you don't pay you are stealing the service.

Wrong. Video games are a product just, not a service.

If you order a food that you don't like you still have to pay. Next time you won't order it.

>and I could very easily tell you they're utter shit and not worth playing.

The only reason people actually know that is because they played it. If nobody played it you wouldn't be able to say they're shit.

Incorrect. If there's something wrong with the food, you get comped.

Kanye West exists because people pirate music

Both of the questions can not be answered with absolute truth since there is none. i cannot look up statistics on how many people pirate, and then do a research and ask how many would still buy a game after they pirate it. This is why i used the argument that more games using denuvo means that denuvo has a increasing influence on sales. First of all, lets be mature and just confirm that denuvo does influence sales, since people who wanna pirate a game obviously wanna play the game. the amount of influence is unknown, it might be so little that its pointless, but it is obviously there.
second, because of the increased use of denuvo, this means higher safety of piracy which also means less piracy and POSSIBLY more sales. Yes, i make an assumption, i got no sources, and neither you or me will find any reliable material.

> You don't get to ignore actual game sales in favor of an even bigger assumption that denuvo influences sales just because games use it.

you yourself are making the assumption that the companies using denuvo are clueless wether denuvo is effective or not. the companies have greater acess to sources we dont. Do you know if the company knows the amount of piracy on their products? Do you know if the company had increased sales after using denuvo?

You might aswell say im wrong to make the assumption that commercials are effective, because can you really prove it? Obviously commercials are a widespread thing in our daily lifes, so I say that yes, i do have the right to assume that both commercials and denuvo have a influence on the sale numbers of various products. Do i have evidence? No. Can i make an assumption because of the increasing use of it? Yes, i can.

>if you aren't wrong then why are you defending it? Are you just butthurt?

This is literally the dumbest fucking argument ever

did you not learn your lesson from no mans sky? hows that $60 doing ya? i still have mine

>Except I've never said this, so there goes that notion out the window.
That was an exaggeration, I should have been more specific. You're claiming that it's not immoral.
>There is nothing immoral about piracy, if you've any understanding of philosophy you'd know intellectual property in and of itself is immoral.
I don't really care about your pseudo-intellectual garbage.
>Ignoring that they were only capable of ever thinking those things due to the efforts of others who have sustained them in life, and as such those people are also entitled to the fruits of their efforts.
That's some hippy bullshit.
>An argument that the financial compensation rendered to their services equals it's value is as misguided as it is false.
Its value is based on what it will sell for.
>Piracy is illegal, breaking the law isn't morally wrong
Correct. There are plenty of zoning laws and other things that society doesn't view as morally wrong to break.
>(otherwise, the founding of America and everything it resulted in is morally wrong, because people had to break laws to do it)
I'm sure the British felt it was morally wrong. Was it morally wrong for colonists to rebel because they were being taxed without proper representation? That's not a simple answer. What we do know, is that the rebellion, in this case, resulted in a powerful country. Does that mean every rebellion over taxes and representation will result in great country? No I don't think so. Although seeing America's success could definitely change rebellions to be considered morally justified.

>Own a steam controller
>Own dead space 2 on steam
>Launch from steam
>Origin is launched and fucks my controller config
>try all solutions and still not working(probably due to steam/origin updates)
>Download a pirate copy of the game. It just works

Piracy is a blessing in cases where it fucks the consumer who actually paid for the game

Remember always online for the xbone? If that ever happens I hope that people pirate like there's no tomorrow

Thank you based pirates

>lol you can never have a good reason not to buy because I said so

According to very fat virgins.

I'd beat the Shit out of you if I saw you on the street. Shitty people like you are the reason I hate normies.

we are talking about personal tastes m8

>Buy some games, support them coming on PC
No thanks.

>Especially weebshit
Why?
I want weebshit out of PC, they haven't provided a single decent game in years.
People might say that PC is better because it's getting a lot of previously console exclusives, but turns out pretty much all of those once console exclusives are complete trash, so why would I want them?

>literally comparing digital piracy to BEING A REVOLUTIONARY
Fucking hell the cringe is real.
Hope you get money one day btw.

>I don't care
>Stop bitching

You realize it's YOU who made this thread and bitch, right?

You still get comped. You just can't finish the meal.

i miss-used the word in the sense that maybe not everyone dislike a world in anarchy, you are correct. I actually didnt think you were autistic enough to get upset with the word "objectively" in my reply. let me speak more freely as many on Cred Forums do.
Anyone who actually believe in the idea that legalizing piracy will create a better world is a fucking retard and should kill themselves since their stupid opinion might actually affect my life.

That fucking feel when moralfags attack piracy while the industry leaders deliberately try to fuck everyone over on a consistent basis.

Fucking hypocritical cunts ain't got no right sticking their head over the trench.

Yes, and? I have 64 hours in Fallout 4 and would refund it in instant.

64 hours of pure desperation trying to find anything 'Fallout'ey in Fallout Fucking Four

If you're posting on Cred Forums there's a 99% chance you have pirated songs, porn, comics, or have otherwise violated copyright laws. Yet when people do it with video games suddenly it's a problem?

This is an industry where it is now acceptable to openly LIE to your customers, just to secure their preorders for broken unfinished games. Once you become critical and have standards, you are no longer the target audience for games, your opinion doesn't matter, you're just in the minority, your neetbux are worthless etc etc.

The industry doesn’t care about fucking us over in the name of unproven piracy damages, so I don’t see why we should care about an industry that could not possibly care less about doing proper business with us.

Do you see people on Cred Forums bitching about pirating comic scans? No.
Do you see people on Cred Forums bitching about tv/movie pirating? No.
Do you see people on Cred Forums bitching about animu pirating? No.
Do you see people on the porn boards bitching about porn piracy? No.
Do you see people on Cred Forums bitching about music piracy? No.

Only on Cred Forums. Only on Cred Forums do you see people bitching about piracy.

You tell him, hero-san.

Both of those questions are easily answerable. Either you believe correlation = causation in which case denuvo has a negative impact on sales, or you cannot with any certainity claim that piracy causes lost sales.

>you yourself are making the assumption

"NO U"

>that the companies using denuvo are clueless wether denuvo is effective or not. the companies have greater acess to sources we dont. Do you know if the company knows the amount of piracy on their products? Do you know if the company had increased sales after using denuvo?

Appeal to authority is not a valid argument. We know advertising is effective because we have marketing studies and a whole swath of psychology that proves it.

>if you disagree with me you should die

So speaks everyone without an actual point to make. Nice opinion fgt.

>It's neither of these things, objectively and demonstrably.

it is not objective, you are correct. but it is stealing.

>Your entire argument is null and void because it's based off a false premise

what? just take the word objectively out, realize the extremly simple fact that this is my opinion, then reply with what you think and also why im wrong, if i am.

No, you idiots are only on Cred Forums, and considering no normie in real life would ever get mad at piracy, so why would I pay attention to what a bunch of very fat virgins have to say?

I want free shit, and you think because some neckbeard is angry i'm gonna stop?

>b-b-but you are stealing
My fucking sides.

And your assumption is flawed because it's based on the false equivalence between advertising and DRM. "DRM increases sales because companies use it" is not logical.

services like Gamefly is basically piracy for Console games, prove me wrong.

>Company buys 100 copies of a game, then sells time to play it to 10,000 customers over time, denying 9,900 sales of said game

Justify false advertising and you might be getting somewhere.

First and foremost piracy is a defense against predatory industry practises.

>but it is stealing.
So what?

>but it is stealing back

Fixed it for you

The only reason I pirate is because I cannot afford them (no job ect.) and I pirate mostly old games for my 2004 toaster, dammit.

I have evidence, look at Steamspy.
Denuvo games have really average sales.

You don't need to justify yourself because the only ones who would judge you for pirating are a bunch of lonely basement dwellers.
Why would you care about what these ''people'' think?

Last game worth playing to be released was New Vegas years ago.

Go ahead and release all future "games" on console its not like there is anything to miss...

You haven't even shown conclusive evidence that a single publisher was killed by piracy over anything else

What if he's a lonely basemen dweller too?

Playing a game from start to the very finish is not the same as trying out clothes in a store, dumbass.

I see this thread's been up a while, have we concluded as we should that piracy moralfagging is either weak but surprisingly effective bait, or legitimate hypocracy and a failure of rational thinking and observation?

The best part is that if you don't outwardly make the effort to expose the hypocrisy it might be capable of passing as a reasonable view.

What you gonna do about it, fuccboi, get mad at people on the internet?

I dislike pirates because they give devs a legitimate reason to shaft me with DRM.

If no one pirated, the world would be a better place.

It's not easy to show conclusive evidence, anything close to it would simply be excused with redistribution of blame to other factors.

Hell, even if I did, you'd then go on to demand evidence for other larger publishers, and claim since so and so is different than the first, it's okay to pirate from them.

>I actually didnt think you were autistic enough to get upset with the word "objectively" in my reply.

What a fucking cop out. Thank god I never have to deal with you insufferable children outside of Cred Forums

Considering DRMs don't improve sales, maybe those studios owe you a better explanation as to why they are shafting you.
Don't think they are actively investing money that won't directly create more profits.

Honest questions to pirates-
When you pirate the game to try it out, how long do you play before you make the call if you enjoy it or not and deem it's worth paying for?
Have you ever payed for a game you've pirated after pirating?

>but it is stealing

It objectively isn't. There's a reason why the courts had to make a distinction between copyright infringement and theft.

>owe you a better explanation as to why they are shafting you
I don't blame companies for shafting me when they're trying to make a profit.

I blame cheap assholes who pirate and give devs a good reason to put DRM in games.

The fuck else is DRM for?

I complete it.
If it's okay, I buy it again and I replay it.
If the game is long and I can see they put effort in it, like The Witcher 3, I may buy it just 2 hours in.

>Without the corporation there wouldn't be any games
>he actually believes this

If no one pirated, DRM would still exist as it has on platforms where piracy isn't feasible. You're an asshat falling for a scapegoat meme

>The fuck else is DRM for?
To get money, like every single penny that a company in a business spends.

You think they are going to spend money just to shaft pirates without expecting something in return?
When you let feelings dictate your business choices, you will get bankrupt.

Besides, which DRM are you talking about?

What do you think about it then?

Are you going to tell me what I'm going to eat dinner and what clothes I'll wear tomorrow too?

It's not easy to show evidence when you don't have any. This wouldn't even be a debate if you did, but since you don't it's easier for you to shitpost with hypotheticals and mental gymnastics why you don't need evidence to argue piracy causes harm.

You're so inept at basic logic, that explaining it to you is obviously a waste of time.

>I don't blame companies for shafting me when they're trying to make a profit

Thanks for letting us know never to take you seriously. Nothing you say matters.

It's a circle of animosity, There's blame on both sides and neither really has any mechanism to pull back, as 'devs' and 'pirates' aren't an individual entity. Piracy will always exist as long as human beings want to get something for free and it's possible to do so, as games are infinitely replicable and pretty much just a copied pattern of information, it will always be possible to do this somehow.

There's no way to suddenly change the moralistic nature of every human on the planet. DRM will always exist as long as devs believe piracy hurts their bottom line. Ultimately, it would be easier and more reasonable for devs to be more open and honest about their business practices, but being conglomerate entities with decisions mostly by comittee, it's difficult for them to actually plan ahead or have a lick of critical thinking, regression to the mean, too many cooks, and all that.

Pirate games you're uncertain about, or games from devs with shitty business practices. Pay later if the experience was worth it for you. By doing this you allow the content you enjoy to thrive, and vote with your wallet. Although whether the money you spend actually winds up getting to the devs who made it is another matter. Having worked in the industry I've seen a few of instances of upper management embezzling funds from game sales.

Imagine, for a moment, that no one on Earth pirated. That if you put out a digital release, it would be bought fair and square. DRM would literally have no reason to exist.

Denuvo and Always Online.

>You are literally arguing that consumers shouldn't minimize the risk when they "gamble"

That's actually the opposite of what I'm saying.

I'm saying there's a difference between a product being worthy of purchase, and being worth your time.

If a product doesn't appeal to you, or if there's something seriously wrong with it, you'll know long before you have to play it, if you pay attention. It's not hard. The internet is REALLY REALLY FUCKING GOOD at sussing out things that are well and truly wrong with games.

If you HAVE to play it in order to see if it's good, meaning if you like what you see about the game, and there's nothing in the reviews or general dialogue that jumps out at you as wrong about the game, then the game deserves your money. That's how that's supposed to work.

If, AFTER that point, there's something about the game that you personally find objectionable, then you'll know that the game simply wasn't for you, and that it was the game itself that didn't appeal to you.
As opposed to if you pirated it, then you'll be spending the entire experience looking for reasons not to like it and thus not to buy it. Whether you intend to or not, you're negatively tainting your own experience when you "try before you buy".

>Denuvo
How is this intrusive?

>Always Online.
Considering Denuvo exists, if this one is still a thing, doubt it's due to piracy.

>Sadly several stores won't let someone return games when they're already unpacked,

All big-box stores do.
All specialty stores do.
All online marketplaces do.

What places won't let you return products?

We are

And there's nothing you can do but make mspaint comics about how mad you are

>he blames people wanting to make protect their property

Nothing you say matters.

It isn't, but the fact that it exists is an issue.

>It isn't
Then why are you complaining?

You got a DRM that's not intrusive, you got your wish.

>or you cannot with any certainity claim that piracy causes lost sales.

i thought we were being mature? all you have to do is answer the simple question, if people are interested in pirating a game to play it, will they buy it if they cant pirate it? This is obviously happening, maybe not many are doing it, but it is gonna happen when we talk about many people. If denuvo influence sales, so does piracy.

>Appeal to authority is not a valid argument. We know advertising is effective because we have marketing studies and a whole swath of psychology that proves it.

And companies have studies on piracy aswell. we dont have acess to the material and we cant confirm if their studies are on their own viable or efficient to increase their sales. We don't know if denuvo influence sales, but it isnt wrong to assume it. Advertising is proved to work because of the increased sales, but is it efficient? My influence from advertising could affect me to buy a product, but there is no way to confirm that my action itself was a direct consequence from the advertisements. Science show us that it affect our decisions to pick a product, it doesnt show us if it is efficient or not. You will simply have to assume with studies and compare with other sales etc. that it why it is correct to assume that advertising have a influence on sales, but incorrect to simply assume that it is efficient. same with denuvo, i can assume that denuvo influence sales because of the now blocked acess to games that were otherwise pirated, but it is wrong for me to assume that it is worth using denuvo to increase sales.

Advertisements are widely used because companies that use them correctly increase their sales. Denuvo games are more widely used - the companies obviously seek profit. so yes, i can assume that Denuvo influence sales. Didnt wanna makes this so long, english is not my best language.

Why does Nintendo give C&Ds to GBA emulators when they don't even produce GBA games anymore?

a point that would effect my life in a negative way. yes, if so fucking kill yourself

They resell them for home consoles, and if they won't sell if people are emulating.

Cant believe I forgot how bad it is here.

Not that user, but it seems like you're projecting how you would experience trying before you buy to the experience of everyone else. Your own idea of 'looking for reasons to hate something' and then subsequently not paying isn't what most people would actually wind up doing. Are you sure you're just not good at balancing your emotional connection to a product, and weighing things in an unbiased manner? Because that's how you sound. Most people don't immediately focus in on a single flaw and use that as an excuse to bias themselves.

>It's not easy to show evidence when you don't have any.
Except it's logical. If someone has the option to spend money on something, or get it for free with no perceived consequences, which do you think the majority will choose?

Do you disagree that if 100% of potential buyers pirated the game, it would make no money? Do you disagree that if 90%/80%/70%/60% pirated the game, it would hurt the publisher and the future of the game?

Do you think that the video game industry can survive at any sufficient level if there were no income at all?

You can say I'm appealing to the extreme scenario, but what's to stop piracy from increasing if there's nothing stopping someone from piracy?

you have evidence on game sales with denuvo drm. you have no idea how many sales they would have without denuvo, that is why it isnt evidence to prove if denuvo have influence or not. We can only assume.

I can buy a copy of Pokemon Emerald for the WiiU?

>you have no idea how many sales they would have without denuvo
But I do know those sales are pretty much the average a PC game sells.
There's no significant improvement, and there's actual flops among Denuvo games.

>If you HAVE to play it in order to see if it's good, then the game deserves your money. That's how that's supposed to work.
Quite literally kill yourself.

"Theft, the illegal act of taking another person's property without that person's freely-given consent"

the court have different set of rules on wether the product is digital or physical. the term steal is correct in both situations.

>DRM would literally have no reason to exist.

That's wrong though.

False, you can refuse to pay and police cannot arrest you.

>buy game
>it's shit
>refund it
whoooooooa

If no one stole shit that wasn't theirs, there would be no reason to protect your stuff.

>the fucking court and legal system is an absolute moral statue of how we should be, and it's understanding of socital issues and technology is not flawed and generally biased

Not this user, but you're clutching at straws and need to gain some worldliness and an actual morality of your own.

So why did you build a PC?

No, but you can on the 3ds eshop iirc

The rise of refunds for digital games is going to cause all the moralpirates to have to redo all their excuses.

To play other games.
Not weebshit though.

>if people are interested in pirating a game to play it, will they buy it if they cant pirate it? This is obviously happening,
No it isn't? Where's your evidence?

>If denuvo influence sales, so does piracy.
Denuvo hurts sales by the same metric used to say piracy hurts sales. You can't have one without the other.

>And companies have studies on piracy aswell. we dont have acess to the material and we cant confirm if their studies are on their own viable or efficient to increase their sales. We don't know if denuvo influence sales, but it isnt wrong to assume it.

Yes it is, because you don't have evidence of those studies. Appeal to authority is still a fallacy whether you like it or not.

>Your own idea of 'looking for reasons to hate something' and then subsequently not paying isn't what most people would actually wind up doing.

It is, actually, that's scientifically proven.

But that's beside the point.

The point is, if the game appeals to you enough to compel you to play it, you owe them a purchase. Period, point blank.

If something after that point jumps out at you, refunds exist.

>But I do know those sales are pretty much the average a PC game sells.

you compared them to other games and made the ASSUMPTION that they WOULD have the average sales as the other pc games without denuvo.

>There's no significant improvement, and there's actual flops among Denuvo games.

once again, you compare denuvo games with games that arent using denuvo and hence it is not evidence.

>you compared them to other games and made the ASSUMPTION that they WOULD have the average sales as the other pc games without denuvo.
Considering other games get as many, if not more, sales without Denuvo even though pirating them doesn't make you miss anything, yeah.

>it won't help so I'll be lazy
Your saying a demo will not stop a single person from torrenting your game? How shitty is the demo? A good demo lets you mess around with the gameplay in a closed environment and allows people to try out how the game plays. The only reason to not provide this is if the product is bad or you are lazy.

A cancer for something that deserves to die.

>You can say I'm appealing to the extreme scenario,

Yes you are. You have no evidence, calling wild assumptions and hypotheticals "logical" doesn't make it true.

You can't claim losses or harm from piracy until you have proof. Your hamhanded logic won't change that.

>You owe them a purchase. Period, Point blank.

This definitely seems like an opinion, not a fact.