What went so, so wrong?

What went so, so wrong?

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I had a good time. Even their "bad" games are good games I guess.

I don't regret the hours I put into it.

after getting bored with ds3 after only my 3rd playthrough I realized that ds2 is the best game of the series.

Well, for me after playing DS3 I don't feel like picking up 2 ever again

>best pvp of the series

Absolutely nothing went wrong

Also, Nioh webm spammer soon

>pvp mattering when the pve is shit

It's sad that you probably actually believe this. I feel bad that you were born with taste so shit.

>Decreasing health bar and effigy system
>Worst animation snapping in series
>Soul memory
>bad enemy placement
>so many mob attacks
>worst bosses in series
>shittier graphics and textures than even ds1

I'm playing it again currently, and it's not nearly as bad as I thought in my first playthrough. It's still worse than 1 and 3 though.

The biggest issue in this game is how the movement and animations for your character are all so weighty and clunky, and how limited stamina use is
DS2 would probably be my favorite if it had the movement and speed of bloodborne, or even just DS1.

>after getting bored with ds3 after only my 3rd playthrough
why do you want keep the same single player game over and over again? i don't understand ds2fags, ds2 is shit even on the first time, and also shit on the other times, while the other games are really good on the first time and get worst with time , ds2 is always shitty.

Also
>character movement and animations
>estus flasks and life gem changes
>stamina

>highest replay value
>best pvp
>best weapon variety
>best build variety
>sorcerer actually viable

Did you really just make this thread in a passive-aggressive fit of rage over the DaS3 one with the same OP?

Hilarious.

What the hell are you even talking about?

>Post about a commonly held opinion on Cred Forums
>MUST BE THE SAME POSTER

Fucking kek

>sorcerer actually viable

Fuck off, casual.

He didn't say it was the same poster, retard.

>with the same OP
fuck off, retard

(You)

Nothing, the base game was shit but the DLC was great.

>dlc having to save the ass of the base game
>SotFS even being THAT good to make up for everything

"the same OP" means the same text in the OP post, newfag.

the DLC is easily the best content of the entire franchise. whatever you thought of the maingame, the DLC is fucking GOAT.

Nice, I was wondering when there was going to be another "DS2 was bad" meme circlejerk.

Can we go at least 24 hours without this fucking thread? Please? We get it, DS2 is the least favorite Souls game.

The DLC is better than the base game, sure, but it's about on par with everything else in the series. It's only 'great' if you compare it to the base DS2.

Well there you go friend hope you like it :)

It's literally we want the casual audience game

>infinite healing items
>bonfire warping from the start
>kill enemies enough times and they just don't spawn anymore kek
>health regen item in the first location
>the only consequence to death is the loss of 25% hit points thanks to ring of the binding and ring of the dead
>4 fucking ring slots
>free and unlimited regain of humanity at shrine of amana
>piss easy bosses
>bonfires everywhere
>"stats too low to use that spell? You can just lower them at this shopkeeper" lmao
>"stats too low to use that weapon? Put on some +5 strength/dex rings!" ffs
>rings rings rings
>fast rolling with 69% equip load, i-frames governed by a stat anyway

It's ugly, like, I can't even look at it without puking, it's like quake 2 or half life 1 with fullbright_1 on. What were they thinking?

PVE wise?

BB>DS2>DS3>DaS

DS3 might be better if the DLC does a lot. It won't though.

The fucking ice horses

Significantly less talented developers combined with tumultuous development made a crappy sequel.

90% of your """""arguments""""" apply to Dark Souls 3 as well.

>Demon's souls has infinite healing items and estus kinda counts as an infinite healing item
>Just don't use the warping if you don't have to
>That sucks but you can just ascetic
>don't use it
>Wasting ring slots on ring of binding and ring of the dead
>DS3 has 4 ring slots
>Don't have to use it
>DS3's don't seem that much harder
>I'll give you that
>lowering spell requirements means you won't get good scaling by having lower stats
>DS3 has stat increase rings
>How is more items and variety a bad thing?
>I-frames governed by adp is one of the worst things ds2 does, but I'd rather be able to fast roll at larger ranges for more diversity of equipment then have it be super limited to a few weapons and armor.

>infinite healing items
I'll give you this one
>bonfire warping from the start
just like bloodborne nad DS3
>kill enemies enough times and they just don't spawn anymore kek
Prevents people from grinding endlessly and its not like its hard to run pst enemies in DS1
>health regen item in the first location
The regem is so small and pittiful it doesn't even matter. Much less than what you could get early on in DES
>the only consequence to death is the loss of 25% hit points thanks to ring of the binding and ring of the dead
Compared to no penialty in DS1?
>4 fucking ring slots
Rings as a whole were nerfed to accomadate this
>free and unlimited regain of humanity at shrine of amana
Like 90% of the way through the game
>piss easy bosses
Not any easier than any other souls game
>bonfires everywhere
I'll give you that
>"stats too low to use that spell? You can just lower them at this shopkeeper" lmao
You get sevearly reduced effectiveness from the spells
>"stats too low to use that weapon? Put on some +5 strength/dex rings!" ffs
How is this a bad thing?
>rings rings rings
Is there even a point here?
>fast rolling with 69% equip load, i-frames governed by a stat anyway
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

made me reply / 10

Why do you keep making these threads? Show me where Best Souls 2 hurt you.

>tfw still regularly play on my sub 40k SM thicc desert sorceress with ruddy complexion

muh lighting muh graphics muh b team. Truth is the magic of souls games was just starting to wear off with ds2, bloodborne was okay because it was fresh and new, now we have ds3 and the magic is all but completely gone from the series.

...

darksouls 3 is the best in the trilogy you twat

...

Mods, you need to do your jobs and rangeban this faggot.

I just started this game.
Why can't I walk and estus at the same time?
Why are the turtle knights harder than the Last Giant?
Why did they fuck up the halberd?
Why do I only have 50% health?
I'm already finding the game more stupidly frustrating than DS1.

Then why do people already seem bored of it? Why aren't people making videos of it as much? Also ds1 was better.

Dark Souls 3 has none of the magic of DeS or DaS but at least it feels great and is fun to play. Dark Souls 2 has none of the magic and none of the quality.

if they ban him they ban all shitposters, which makes up 98% of Cred Forums

nigga just slow down and it all becomes a calculated cake-walk

You couldn't walk and estus in ds1 and it should impede you too much if you aren't a baby.
Turtle knights aren't hard when you realize their weak to fire and explosions like that one in the court yard full of explosive barrels hints at.
If it's bad just use a different weapon, if you really like it just get used to it and overcome it's shittyness.
You're hollow you idiot, they decided people needed a reason to not stay hollow at all times.
You're either really dumb or false flagging.

Because as you said, people are getting tired of souls. But ds3 is still objectively the best.

>Why can't I walk and estus at the same time?
What? You can walk a bit in DS2 after pressing the estus button, you can't do that in DS1. DS3 lets you do it even moreso.

>Why are the turtle knights harder than the Last Giant?
Because you aren't using a strike weapon/dodging improperly/didn't git gud/etc.

>Why did they fuck up the halberd?
Why do they change every returning weapon in every game? This is not an argument.

>Why do I only have 50% health?
Because dying has actual penalties and you were casual enough to die enough times to lose half your health.

>I'm already finding the game more stupidly frustrating than DS1.
I loved Dark Souls 1 but you have to admit it's the easiest game in the series. Dark Souls 2 is the hardest, which is its own brand of fun if you're able to get good.

The health debuff was an epic throwback to DeS's soul form but it completely ruined the point because you could be invaded without regaining humanity anyways. DeS had a great risk/reward system in place which justified the health change and DaS2 had none of it. No reason not to have full health all the time except if you run out of effigies (which would be fucking hard to do).

There were a lot more instances of this. For instance, the Emerald Herald and having to go to blacksmiths for any reinforcement. Worked in DeS because the archstones were few and far between, and you have to balance pushing ahead in the level with going back to the Nexus. DaS2 had bonfires everywhere so there was little reason not to level up as soon as you had the souls to do so. Except now instead of doing that shit at the bonfire directly you have to go through 2 loading screens.

How is ds3 objectively the best? What's so great about it?

There's a point where changing the souls formula to make it harder becomes a bit much, and losing health upon every death is one of them. Isn't it enough that you lose your souls and progress?

DaS2 is the hardest because of mob ganks, shitty hitboxes, and actual artificial difficulty gotchas.

Look who never played Demon's Souls lmao

Look buddy, this series isn't right for you if you're this casual.

If it really bothered you so much they have a ring to help with it. Or you could stop dying so much.

Sorcerer has all ways been easy mode.

I literally never ran out of human effigies.

>hitbox stays where you started the roll until it's finished
Who the fuck approved this?

The worst combat in the series by far.
Bland, ugly graphics and an overall lack of atmosphere besides a few areas.
Shitty enemy variety and even worse boss variety.
Terrible enemy placement.
But the worst of all, the most unforgivable sin, is the absolute fucking garbage level design in comparison with the other games.

None of its supposed pros make up for these. Build variety, weapon variety, good pvp, whatever. None of that matters when the game design itself is bad.
Also they made parries and ripostes incredibly unsatisfying which I didn't know was possible

>being bad enough to consider mob ganks a problem
Play better. Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne utilize them to the same extent, but at least Dark Souls 2 has poise.

>shitty hitboxes
A horrible meme perpetuated by you shitposters. Every game in the series has the same equally bad hitboxes in certain places. The only reason why "DS2 has bad hitboxes" took off as a meme is because people hadn't figured out the iframe benefits from leveling Agility yet, outing them all as casuals that have to rely on DS1 rolls to play the game.

>actual artificial difficulty gotchas.
Falling into a trap because you're an idiot is not artificial difficulty. Unironically claiming "artificial difficulty" on something is the most kekworthy shit anyone can ever post.

youtube.com/watch?v=pMwM2iwDmYw

>Bland, ugly graphics
Let's be real here, none of the souls games are really that graphically nice looking.

Okay cool, but what's the adp of the guy in the video?

Working as intended. He rolled too early.

You shouldn't have to level a stat to prevent weapons that don't hit you from doing damage.

not him but, i have around ~1000 hours on ds2 and that never happened to me.
other games also know how to glitch out sometimes.

How have they never been able to get grab hitboxes right

If only you played dark souls I

Or 3.

1 looked great for when it came out, and 3 looks good. Obviously Demon's hasn't held up well but it was an early PS3 title.
2 has no excuse. They went all in on their stupid lighting engine and they didn't even end up using it so the game looks like shit. Maybe they should have spent all that time actually designing the game well instead.

Dark Souls 3 looks pretty. The rest are pretty shitty looking.
But that doesn't excuse DS3's horrible linearity, short length, lack of replay value, lack of poise, and trash PvP, so I think it's safe to assume that graphics aren't important.

>I-frames tied to a stat
I don't fucking get why this is a problem. Is it just "muh other games did it" because it totally makes sense to tie an attribute to a stat so you can't just get infinite I-frames by stripping down and losing a 5% damage reduction

In actuality the hitboxes are only slightly off. The thing that makes them look janky is that even on a partial hit they still have to teleport you into the normal grab animation. It looks like shit but in general a hit is a hit.

1 certainly looks better than 2. It's funny how 2 was the one that was supposed to have this really nice lighting system that would change everything and then it ends up having the worst lighting.

Shitposters will shitpost, nothing new.

ADP isn't the core problem. It's the fact that your hitbox doesn't match your movement when you roll. So if you roll away from an attack, even if your player model is nowehere near it, but your i-frames run out, you get hit. ADP "fixes" it by hiding the problem by giving you more i-frames.

>It's the fact that your hitbox doesn't match your movement when you roll. So if you roll away from an attack, even if your player model is nowehere near it, but your i-frames run out, you get hit.
I hate this shit. Bloodborne has the same problem too:

Shit you're right, I never realized that. They should just made an animation of the enemy pulling you in if it hits you from far away.
The problem is not that i-frames are tied to a stat. The problem is there is no indication of when you have i-frames because the animation never changes. If they wanted to do this, they should have had it in tiers and have the animation change upon hitting a certain tier of adaptability to give the player an indication that they are more invincible. What we got was a messy guessing game where the only way to know when your i-frames end is to get hit, which is bad. It's an okay idea but the execution was awful.
Parries also have the same issue where the animation of shields doesn't really tie in to the active frames because they fucked up the system but didn't account for the change.

That being said, I still don't like ADP.
>so you can't just get infinite I-frames by stripping down and losing a 5% damage reduction
So...just make armour more useful so there's actually a reason to wear it besides fashion?

Only hypocrites and crybabies complain about it. Needing ADP to successfully roll is no different from needing END to successfully block. Honestly just about every complaint that gets brought up against DaS2 is the same kind of illegitimate shit people outright fabricate to blame the game for their own failures. It happened with DaS1 too until people realized they'd get gamer cred for telling people to git gud. It's honestly a shame people didn't keep that get good or get out attitude when it came to the next two games in the series. Everything good and everything bad about any of the games in the series is present in all the rest in pretty much equal amounts. People just pick some really stupid and biased shit to harp on about for some reason.

The difference is DS2 is actually not a very well designed game, whereas 1 generally is.
And as other anons have, it's not that adaptability exists, it's that it makes it so your i-frames don't match your animation. Which is shitty design that any competent developer would have fixed

THIS. It's because Dark Souls 2 is the game everyone loves to hate by parroting """"""""""criticisms""""""""" from the Nitpickmatosis video as if they're valid arguments, and declare the game to be shit without ever even playing it.

I agree, Fromsoft is incompetent and should have made your animations match your iframes:

>DS2 fans this delusional
Just accept 2 is the inferior one already. We all know it. It's plain to anyone with any capacity for critical thinking

But you can block without leveling up endurance and it still absorbs all damage (if the shield has 100%).

You can time your rolls perfectly without leveling up ADP and still take damage.

Great argument, brain-dead animeposter.

>You can time your rolls perfectly without leveling up ADP and still take damage.
Except a perfectly timed roll means you don't take damage. Holy shit, you got me to reply. 10/10

It's not even the i-frames. You can roll and not even visibly get hit by the weapon and still take damage because of .

2 is the only souls game that actually has a end to its story, 3 didn't answer any questions and didn't try to progress its overall theme in anyway.

Two made a story using the original idea and ended it not by solving the problem, but by giving a real spark of hope cause someone found a way to work outside of the system.

This why I like 2 more than 1 or 3 cause it actually tried something new and ended its own merits instead of praying for it to be canon and milkcowed to death

if iron keep sank, why didn't the elevator just go down?

why didn't the devs just extend that shitty low-res mountrain backdrop in majula to reach heide's tower, since you walk there?

...

>instead of praying for it to be canon and milkcowed to death
2 literally only exists because Namco wanted to milk the franchise, are you an idiot? Miyazaki didn't want any sequels. Not to mention even though they tried something original they still tied it to Dark Souls at every possible opportunity
>Staple characters like the Crestfallen still there
>Final boss is a shard of manus
>All the lord souls are here
>Lordvessel in the basement woaaaaah!!!!
>Lel praise the sun XD
>Random phantom of Havel and his armor
>Random Ornstein even though it makes no sense
I hate how since 3 came out and was a direct sequel everyone forgot how hard 2 tried to suck the original's dick too.

>it actually tried something new and ended its own merits instead of praying for it to be canon and milkcowed to death
i see this meme all the time, ds2 is all about ds1 refferences. on ng+ it says that all bosses have the soul of ds1 characters. nashandra is just female nito.

1>>>BB>2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DeS
Debate this you cant

Every point you mentioned can be applied to DS3 with the exception of the final boss, which is even WORSE fanservice because it's literally Gwyn.

But at least it has a reason for being Gwyn.

Nobody was claiming otherwise. To say that DaS2 isn't a pander-fest like DaS3 is simply wrong, and at least DaS3 got most of the rest right.

And? What's your point?
I was never comparing 2 and 3, I was just contesting that user that says 2 wasn't being milked and was original, which is bullshit. Obviously 3 has a lot of references, it's a direct sequel to 1. And 3 at least has reasons for all its references; it takes place in the same place as 1 so it makes sense for all that to be there, even though a lot of it is still blatant fanservice. 3 at least had the balls to directly connect whereas 2 was just like LOL GUYS IT COULD BE LORDRAN BUT MAYBE NOT WHO KNOOOOOWS HAVE YOUR REFERENCES ANYWAY!

Not being the same as the previous game.

take miyazaki's cock out of your mouth, literally everything in souls 'has a reason' to be there

there was no reason for ornstein to be in the cathedral of blue

What the fuck is YOUR point? What a load of meaningless fluff.
Again, you people are shitting on DS2 for things that the other games in the series do as well. These are not valid arguments.

Except all the stupid references in 2 that could have been removed and had absolutely no impact on the game's story?

>This why I like 2 more than 1 or 3 cause it actually tried something new and ended its own merits instead of praying for it to be canon and milkcowed to death

Stop.

Except how Aldia is literally responsible for DS3's plot?

Stop what?

Because you're a retard who likes to think DS2 is so original and tried something different when it really fucking didn't?
Because while other games in the series do these things well DS2 mishandles basically everything and that's why it's an inferior game to the rest?

>Except how Aldia is literally responsible for DS3's plot?
I don't see what that has to do with how all the references in 2 were complete pandering and added nothing to the story except the whole shards of Manus thing.
But even then it could have been the shards of any powerful demon/god/whatever and it would've made sense.
Man, you're really not good at this whole argument thing, huh? Try to stay on topic please.

Most melee weapons disintegrate when you swing them 3 times
Melee for some reason was NERFED from the first game when it's the playstyle that requires you to risk your neck the most.
The few actually decent melee weapons in the game are only available toward the end.
Magic was buffed or at least kept the goddamn same despite being gamebreaking as fuck.
Pyromancy was changed from being shitty magic that requires little investment to being shitty magic that requires a ton of investment.
Almost all the bosses are tall guys in armor.
Level design is shit.
Controls feel wrong compared to the first game.
Covenants were still broken shit that only worked half the time.

And the sad thing is Dark Souls 2 is still way fucking better than 3.

How would it have made sense, you fucking idiot? Just because it's in Dark Souls 2 it's bad now? Yes, I get that - it's all you shitposters can muster as an argument against the game.

You clowns realize that pretty much nothing in any of the Souls games is in any way original, right? Complaining about pandering makes absolutely no sense in the context of this series.

-the atmosphere was not as good as 1.

-The soul memory thing catering to casual faggot baby retards.

-swarms of enemies rather than well designed enemies

my biggest gripes. I still like the game.

No one said that.
user. We're contesting your original claim that says DS2 was original and tried something new and wasn't being milked to death. We're not discussing the game's quality here, we're just proving you wrong. Perhpas this is hard for you to grasp. All we're doing is saying you're an idiot basically.
That being said DS2 is a steaming turd but that's for other reasons, the chief of which are worse controls, poor level design and shitty bosses and enemies

Nothing, it's the best game

We know, we're just pointing that out to the idiot who thinks 2 is original.

>we're just proving you wrong
You're not at all. You're objectively wrong and proving that you can't form a simple conclusion backed by a premise. Not even the user you're talking to.

Same, I still put more time into any souls game than any two other big releases combined.

Fucking kek. You need a lobotomy if this wasn't supposed to be bait

>He says DS2 is original and not being milked to death
>Point out how it references 1 all the time and is in fact the product of being milked to death
Seems like solid logic to me. Nice samefagging by the way

But it's true
>m-muh windmills

This. Beats 1 by a huge margin, hands down. 3 might end up being the best when its DLC drops but only time will tell.

Most of my PS3 games got stolen, but the thief did actually leave Dark Souls II for some reason.

How is it the best? Because this thread is full of valid reasons why it's the worst...

So I wanna know, just for science here.
How many of you DS2 defenders legitimately think it's a great game and how many of you are just trying to get the (You)s?

>>That sucks but you can just ascetic
Not even that, you can always join that champion convenant at the very beginning. Makes the game harder and the enemies never despawn.

reminder the "dark souls 2 is the best" crowd are a vocal minority

No fucking shit, every idiot with a functioning brain knows 2 is worse than the other games.

>best pvp by an enormous margin
>most weapon and armor variety
>best build variety, magic is completely viable unlike the other games
>amazing DLC areas
>some openness in how you can run through the game unlike DaS3 which is basically a straight line
>lore that tries to do its own thing instead of sucking DaS1's dick all the time like 3

2 doesn't even compare to 1.
>inb4 second half of 1
Even 1's second half is better than all of 2
>inb4 SotFS
A dlc that is only "amazing" when compared to the shit base game.

Bad animations, bad movesets, bad level design, worst bosses of the series.

I could forgive all that but animation kills it for me, I tried replaying it yesterday and I feel dirty while playing, it's as if your character is constantly walking through shit, attack animations have no weight to them, enemy tracking is ridiculous, it's like they have wheels on their feet, also, the moment one sees you everyone automatically knows where you are.

But the most infuriating thing is that the game has a ton of content, between weapons, magic, armor sets, there are many possible builds but it's all being held back by such a shit game.

The fact that you have to type this shows how much of unredeemable retard you have become.

Dark Souls is not just a great game, it's the best in the franchise. Now reply to this with (You) like the hive mindset faggots you are

You mean just like every other Souls game?

Animations in DaS1 feel so robotic, especially movement

1 is the worst in the series at everything. You clearly haven't played it, or only played it once and never picked it up again. Either way get some perspective.

These games would be so much better either with quasi DMC combat, more combos, and way less rolling.

I agree :^)

I liked all three of them and think they're all wonderful.

>Most melee weapons disintegrate when you swing them 3 times
Keep a backup weapon on you. Durability being actually important rather than a pissant annoyance in DS1 was a welcome change, also rather realistic considering that hitting a wall with a sword in real life will either break or considerably dull the blade.

>Melee for some reason was NERFED from the first game when it's the playstyle that requires you to risk your neck the most.
What are you talking about? See my next point:

>The few actually decent melee weapons in the game are only available toward the end.
Did you even play the game? The Estoc (arguably best PvP weapon and one of the best PvE weapons) is available as soon as you get 1K souls to buy Lenigrast's key, and every single Strike damage weapon absolutely melts PvE - the best of which being the Craftsman's Hammer which you can get after only two bosses (Dragonrider+Flexile or Last Giant+Pursuer). Even the 800-Souls club from Malentia can carry you and you can purchase that literally immediately.

>Magic was buffed or at least kept the goddamn same despite being gamebreaking as fuck.
Better than in DS3 where magic is fucking useless, and more balance than DS1 where Dark magic and Pyromancy raped everything

>Pyromancy was changed from being shitty magic that requires little investment to being shitty magic that requires a ton of investment.
Look at my above point. Balancing unbalanced shit is a good thing.

>Almost all the bosses are tall guys in armor.
Ah, this meme again. Less than half of all the bosses are armored dudes. Exaggeration is not an argument.

>Level design is shit.
Different=/=shit.

>Controls feel wrong compared to the first game.
Different=/=wrong. And the controls were objectively improved in many areas.

>Covenants were still broken shit that only worked half the time.
DS2 covenants are literally the best in the series. The Bellbros, Ratbros, and so on actually fucking WORKED unlike every DS1/3 covenant.

>some openness in how you can run through the game unlike DaS3 which is basically a straight line
>lore that tries to do its own thing instead of sucking DaS1's dick all the time like 3
Nice b8.
DS2 may have nonlinear progression but its levels are by far the most linear in the series. I hate how DS2 fags always talk about how open it is when it really, really isn't. It has the least open levels of the series which is where it really matters.
In 3 the progression is very lienar but the levels are bigger and more open. 2 is basically deciding which hallway of 4 you want to go down first before going down the fifth.
>amazing DLC areas
Sunken is trash.
The tower is decent.
The last one is actually great. The frozen outskirts, however, is the single worst area in the entire series.

People only defend DaS1 so obsessively because it was their first game, just like the hipsters who claim that DeS had a good soundtrack

Dark Souls is definitely up there, but I think Bloodborne is the best just by being the most quality throughout. 1 suffers from its lower quality second half.

*first Souls game

Maybe in movement but attack animations in DaS1 have weight, there's actually response when you hit an enemy unlike DaS2.

They're in for a rude awakening the next time they decide to boot 1 up. It's incredibly mediocre to 2 and 3.

People only defend DaS2 so obsessively because it was their first game, just like the hipsters who claim that DaS2 had a good soundtrack

You were probably right the first time. DaSbabbies are so delusional it honestly wouldn't surprise me if most of its rabid defenders are young enough for it to be their very first game.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

>burn a windmill by lighting an iron axle with your torch
>go up an elevator to reach an apparently invisible magma-filled caldera in the sky
>and that's just one of four corridors
>all to get past a small pile of rubble in your way to the WEEL areas of the game which themselves are just a corridor

>best pvp
>Pvp mattering in a souls game when the pve is as shit as it is

>most weapon and armor variety
I'd rather have a decent number of unique weapons that were better made than a shit ton of crappy duplicates and worthless ones

>amazing dlc areas
Thats DLC retard. We're talking base games here, which ds2 has the worst level designs in the series

>more map freedom and connecting than darksouls 3
Less than dark souls 1.

>lore did it's own thing instead of sucking ds1's cock like 3.
Dark souls 3 was much more of of a sequel to 1 than 2 was, we already know that. On top of that 2's fucking story was garbage, and it's not like the lore in souls games has been all that great or even all that thought out. But that's mostly subjective.

1 and 3 still >>>>> 2

>>burn a windmill by lighting an iron axle with your torch
Iron axles in windmills are GREASED and therefore FLAMMABLE.

>>go up an elevator to reach an apparently invisible magma-filled caldera in the sky
Pic related.

>>and that's just one of four corridors
Hyperbole.

>>all to get past a small pile of rubble in your way to the WEEL areas of the game which themselves are just a corridor
Hyperbole again. And the pile of rubble hate is the biggest load of hypocrisy I've ever seen. People loved the overcomplicated solutions to mundane things in Dark Souls 1 such as the tiny dog on a hamster wheel powering the gigantic elevator in Blighttown - but it's always okay if Dark Souls 1 does it!

God 2 is so fucking disappointing.
>Cool looking ruins on the sea with a huge lighthouse
>It's just two linear paths and you don't even climb to the top of the lighthouse.
>Cool mansion with a big dragon skeleton, a novel location for a Souls game.
>It's a literal hallway with a few doors.
>Scary, atmospheric level at the bottom of a well
>It's a hallway
>Dragon shrine and nests at the top of a windy mountain
>It's a hallway
Quality over quantity B-Team

>1 wad the worst
>2 is better than 1
Did YOU even play dark souls 1?

And no, I've played a shit ton of 1 and 3, did one plauthrough of 2 and that was enough for me because it was so bad.

nice strawman
youtube.com/watch?v=lMFDummTtp8

The Souls fanbase.

Not him, but it easily has the best music and designs of all the series. I love the fights, the lore and the atmosphere. The only complaints I have is:
1. Too linear
2. Too many humanoid bosses. Although I love each of them, and wouldn't want to get rid of any, it seems like it could have been more interesting with more twisted monsters as bosses.
3. It seems to me that rolls have way too many i-frames. I read somewhere that they had the same amount as DS1, but it is just so easy to dodge I didn't even feel like using shields on any playthrough.

>Iron axles in windmills are GREASED and therefore FLAMMABLE.
Where's the grease?

>Pic related.
How the fuck is that a defense? First you go for muh realism and then muh gaminess.

>And the pile of rubble hate is the biggest load of hypocrisy I've ever seen. People loved the overcomplicated solutions to mundane things in Dark Souls 1 such as the tiny dog on a hamster wheel powering the gigantic elevator in Blighttown - but it's always okay if Dark Souls 1 does it!
Really? Never heard anybody even mention this. That's just funny and inconsequential, anyways. Not comparable to the pile of rubble.

>Pic related
Oh fuck off. Pretending the distances aren't to scale is a huge cop-out, especially since in the other games the worlds connect organically.
>Hyperbole again. And the pile of rubble hate is the biggest load of hypocrisy I've ever seen. People loved the overcomplicated solutions to mundane things in Dark Souls 1 such as the tiny dog on a hamster wheel powering the gigantic elevator in Blighttown - but it's always okay if Dark Souls 1 does it!
The hamster in a wheel is a joke that has no relevance to anything. It's supposed to be silly.
The pile of rubble is seriously the only thing stopping you from reaching the castle. They could have just had an actual fucking wall or put the gate down there. But no. They're incompetent idiots.

Christ, Aldia's Keep was so disappointing. I was expecting something really cool from the way they showed it off in the trailer, but nope.

Dark Souls 1 is shit for having impossible geometry too! Fuck videogames for saving disk space right?

Except the elevator wheel was required for progression as well.

Is it bad I honestly can't tell if DS2 defenders are trolls are actually retarded?

Is it bad if I honestly can't tell DS2 haterhypocrites are blind or actually retarded?

It's not the simple fact that the geometry is impossible, it's that it's so bloody obvious.

>Except the elevator wheel was required for progression as well.
Except it was always running. If you had to do something stupid like drop a piece of meat into the wheel to get the dog to run and get it turning, I would totally be on your side.

They have shit taste if they think it's good

They're only retarded if they think it's the best

Not an argument.

>DS2 haterhypocrites
Actually retarded then.
Explains a lot.

samefag

what were you expecting? how 2 totally unrelated areas are the same thing as 2 areas that are connected? did you wanted to see lost izalith there ruining the view, is that what you wanted?

i have no idea, i think they are retarded

Not an argument.
Trying to get the last word in after getting schooled, huh?

...

Oh, and it wasn't required for progression. You could have just backtracked.

I wish 3 kept bonfire ascetics.

The biggest two things that got me the most were the existence of adaptability controlling iframes and just the overall ugliness of the game in many areas. I guess there was no salvaging that though with that gutted lighting system.

This. The reason why I dislike 3 over 2, despite both of them failing to accomplish certain things, is because 3 refused to bring back any of the good new things that 2 tried such as Ascetics and instead made everything a DS1 clone.

Play Scholar of the First sin, it's gorgeous. Not DS3 tier but better than vanilla, even vanilla with an ENB.

looks fucking retarded

You want an actual argument? I mean I know you'll just have another strawman reply, but I like venting about DS2 so sure.
The wheel is irrelevant. It runs. That's all that matters. If the dog wasn't there we would have just assumed an unseen device was powering it.
Meanwhile, the rubble is right there in our faces. The idea that our character can't walk over a bit of rubble that's not even as tall as them to get to the castle is really fucking stupid. I know this shit crops up in games a lot but good lord to get around the rubble you have to go on an epic journey and kill a bunch of powerful beings. It's absurd. And all they had to do was just put the shrine of winter there instead. But nope.
And the Ash Lake is clearly some sort of strange, mystic place, and even then you can see it from other low points in the world like the Tomb of the Giants. The fact that it's below the world makes sense in a sort of fantasy way.
The Iron Keep is just a plain vanilla volcano. That you someone can't see at all. That you ride an elevator up to so it's apparently floating. That they could have just made you ride an elevator DOWN to. But the devs, as proven before, are incompetent and don't think things through.

How about you respond to the actual arguments, then?

I agree. One thing DaS2 got absolutely right. Though it sorely needed them due to the despawning enemies and required NPC summons for quests. If you were able to use them to get all the +1 and +2 rings as well as Proper Bow after doing Sirris' quest they would be awesome.

It's not B-Team though considering how linear DS3 is as well.

I think Miyazaki just lost his touch.

Don't reply to the nioh webm shill. Report+ignore.

You don't have to use ascetics for most enemies to make them respawn, just join the covenant of champions.

3's level design is way better though. It doesn't really have any hallways, at least to the degree 2 does, and it at least has some big open levels as well. THe linearity is disappointing but the quality of the level design is back up to competent levels, though perhaps not to the highest points of the series' bests.

...

How is the fact that Soul of Cinder takes fighting style of the first one to ever link the flame a bad thing? Yeah it was a reference of DS 1, of course it was, that's the last game of the series after all. Not only the fight was fun, it also made perfect sense lore-wise, I don't understand how it's a bad thing.

The individual levels in DaS3 aren't really all that linear, and if they are, it's well-disguised (e.g. Irithyll). Whereas those levels are literal straight line hallways in DaS2.

>not taking the good from ds1
>taking all the complaints as the basis for the game

Other than the Gutter, of course. It was linear but in a nicer way like Irithyll.

Not even him, but your arguments are basically
>It's okay when DaS does it because it's magic and funny!!

Also, DaS2 clearly tries to represent distance with those corridors and elevators. Whether or not they failed is another matter, but I don't see many people complaining about the tunnel to Drangleic which uses the same effect either.

That said, I will not defend the rubble. That was simply lazy.

Reminder of what the gutter could have been:

Being better than 2 doesn't mean much when 2 was literally garbage. However, it doesn't come even CLOSE to DS1 and that's a problem since it had both good level design AND organic level design.

...

Looks like current gutter, just bigger.

Some of the areas do. Actually, I'd reckon that as a whole DaS3 is only a bit more linear than DaS, proportionally. DaS3 is just shorter and the linear levels are spread out, whereas with DaS they're all the Lord Soul areas.

And with actually solid pieces of stone ground instead of spindly wooden walkways everywhere. Built over an aqueduct too which is fucking cool, even cooler than Blighttown if it were actually in the final game.

That said, the overall progression of DaS3 is insanely linear whereas a good deal of the world is open from the start of DaS if you have the key.

I think my biggest disappointment with the game happened very early on.
When you get to Majula they tease you with the locked mansion. Right then you start wondering what's in there. And when you get the key the NPC who gives it to you says he's heard weird nosies coming from the basement, so now you're even more exciting. I was expecting a whole new area to explore or a secret boss or something.
But then you get to the Mansion.
And there's fucking NOTHING but a respec item in a chest, an estus shard, and the basement just has one fucking easily killed skeleton. Really set the whole tone of the rest of the game for me.

damn

the fuck happened?

the gutter will always be my least favorite area, shit sucked. should have looked like the concept art and had a no-mans warf style pharros stone light

Sounds like a problem specific to you. I have my faults with the game as well but to hate on the game because of a random expectation from you is pretty unfair.

Bamco rushed development, directors changed halfway through, etc. They did a surprisingly good job ad picking up the pieces with the Scholar of the First Sin version, but seeing what could of been is pretty disappointing.

That's not why I hate the game stupid. It was just the start of many disappointments to come.
Perhaps I got my hopes up, but I was expecting more than basically nothing from a big locked mansion in the starting area.

It happened to me all the time when the game came out on PC, the game was full of problems if you play it at 60fps, many people had the same problems.
Don't know how much has been patched and changed since then but it's obvious that a higher frame rate fucks up the hitboxes and other things tied to frames.

>60fps made weapons degrade twice as fast because they were in things for twice the amount of frames
Truly amazing

pcucks btfo

the fuck is this?

Except the PS4/Xbone versions have the same durability bug in place.
Dumb shitposter.

fucking delete this i was hopeing you wouldn't point it out :((((

To be fair you can literally kill the dancer as the second boss, and then dagonslyer armour as your third. So it's not that bad.

Replaying it right now, reaching the middle to end of the DLCs... every time I reach that point, it's the same thing - I have around a million XP in the bank, most of my gear is still level one, and I have choice paralysis... I just don't know where I want to take the character.

But playing becomes a chore because of how non-leveled and poorly geared I am. Every fights takes too long, it's no more enjoyable.

>DLC was great meme
I'm tired of it.
The only good thing about the dlc is Burnt Ivory King and Alonne.
The rest is mediocre, like the vanilla game.

>Alonne
Alonne sucked.
Oh boy ANOTHER swordfight where the boss has a panned 3-hit combo, a sweep, a thrust move, a slow, shitty projectile, and a grab that powers them up.

Nashandra isn't Nito.

The fat Blob is Nito.
Nashandra is a fragment of Manus.

While I find it would have suited a King's Field game better, the level design of Shulva was superb. Really enjoyed that place.

And however much infuriating I found it, Fume Knight was one hell of a fight.

Eleum Loyce and surroundings... I'm so conflicted about, there's individual bits I love so much, and then others that make me go "what the hell?".

My main complaints are probably level design and enemy mobs ganking you at every corner. Instead of making nicely designed and diverse enemies that can be challenging, they just send 4-5 of the same enemies at you while 2 throw bombs/shoot bolts at you. It's lazy and even worse when paired with the shitty levels. Even some of the bosses are just mob enemies

>What went so, so wrong?

Everything. The bad level design, all mobs are swarms, lazy bosses (big example: Ornstein for no reason).
Cashed in on the "THIS GAME IS GARD GUIZ" meme without checking to see if it's hard but fair
Badly designed DLC

also stupid shit like this NPC

@352648303
You (shit)posted this in the last daily DS2 hate thread already.

>badly designed DLC
Just fuck off. Nobody cares for your bait.

>@

why should anyone listen to someone who doesn't properly?

>Can't reply properly

>reply

You dropped this.

>>infinite healing items
How is that less casual than DaS1 with its 20 estus, 99 humanity and 99 twin humanities, or the grass in DeS? And reminder, humanity heals for 100% and not a certain amount of health.

@352648586
@352648576
It's done to not give the shitposter a (You), dumbfucks. Same what I'm doing with your dumb asses in case you're him.

nioh

more casual*

Also, most things heal over time in DaS2 instead of being instant, so even with infinite healing items, you can't just spam them everytime you want.

>someone defending DaS2 calling someone else a shitposter

This is honestly the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Just fucking reply to posts you idiot

god this game looks like hot liquid doo doo poopy honestly, why are sonyggers so proud of their wee wee poo poo game?

This

Also best introduction for noobs into the Souls series.
Playing through with my brother right now.

You don't understand. Shitposters feed off of (You)s. They crave them, and so denying them will make them shitpost harder in an attempt to get them. It's the perfect punishment for their crimes.

@352648894
Kill yourself, dumb animeposter. Quit perpetuating memes and honestly explain to me why DS2 is bad and I'll invalidate your every point.
You won't though.

>he tiny dog on a hamster wheel powering the gigantic elevator in Blighttown

Don't tell me you're the same faggot harping on about this shit as last time.

Do you just wait for dark souls threads and kneejerk post HAMSTER WHEELS

he's a shitposter, ignore him.

>You won't though.
because you will just use strawman and not even try to counter.

because they were already listed in

>Also, most things heal over time in DaS2 instead of being instant
God I hated that about the game
>Takes 10 years to heal with estuts
>Takes 10 years for your health to actually fill after
I get the idea here but in the end it just made it so healing took fucking forever and it made fights drag on and on. And the gameplay was already slower than the other games so combat was really tedious. It was terrible. One of the under-appreciated shitty design decisions of the game.

Those aren't criticisms, gaylord. Your opinion is not fact.

>Those aren't criticisms

talking abut why a game is bad are criticisms

Yes, you are saying a game is bad because it is your opinion, while I think the game is good. See how this goes nowhere?
How about you stop shitposting and beating around the bush? Is it because you're afraid of a BTFO? You might as well just run away from this thread with your tail between your legs then, because I'm not going anywhere.

>shit game design is okay when BASED MIYAZAKI does it
>hurrr im so gay and fucking retarded durrr my opinions are gay urrrfff thank god Cred Forums exists where i can shitpost anonymously and no one can track me down and beat the piss out of me for being such a dumb gay cunt durrrrff

I did list the arguments and yet REFUSE to counter them.

The only coward here is you

Are you gonna be okay?

Not nearly comparable.

>Takes 10 years to heal with estus
>Takes 10 years for your health to actually fill

Dark Souls 3's invasions are complete bullshit on account of how easy it is to heal, it killed invasions for me.
Dark souls 2 isn't perfect but the healing system wasn't a problem. Sippy cup needs SOME risk attached to it.

"dark souls 2 sucks because its bad" is not an argument

...

Nothing.

except I never directly said that

>While I find it would have suited a King's Field game better, the level design of Shulva was superb. Really enjoyed that place.
Funny you say that because when I first saw Shulva I thought "wow this looks just like the Ancient City".

DS2 > DS3:

>Chugging Estus immobilizes you, and the heal isn't instantaneous meaning trying to chug while someone is sticking close to you will result in death

>Stamina regeneration is tied to weight, so a character at 10% burden will recover their bar faster than a character at 70% burden, giving an advantage and a reason to make a low burden character

>Poise exists and armor provides relevant, but not overpowering damage reduction, giving an advantage and a reason to make a high burden character

>Phantoms and Dark Spirits cannot chug estus, spirits can only heal via spell useage which is slow. This makes fighting outnumbered even without mob assistance possible since any damage you do sticks.

>Can only perform 4-5 rolls before running out of stamina, unlike 10+ in DS3

>Can only perform 6-7 attacks of a rapier or straight sword before running out of stamina, unlike 12+ in DS3

>Parrying has longer recovery frames and consumes more stamina, making parry fishing riskier and makes parrying require higher skill

>Being able to use the full moveset of a weapon in your off-hand including running, rolling, backstepping, etc. attacks rather than just being able to do a basic R1 swing and blocking with the weapon as it is in Ds3 (lmao who would ever want to weapon block)

>Power stance allowing for unique combinations of dual wielding and unlocking an alternative moveset for weapons

>Non-linear first half of the game allows you to rush straight to the areas of the game that contain the items for your build

>Bell Tower covenant providing two unique optional areas to PvP for Titanite Chunks, Slabs, and Twinkling, making farming for upgrades fun

>Bonfire ascetics to replay bosses you like and or gain items from NG+ and beyond without grinding through the whole game again

nah you're right it was more like "HURRRRR DAWK SOWZ DOO SUX CUH MUH HURRRRRRRR IT JUS DUN DID BE BAD UHHHHH DURRRR"

my mistake

Yeah, absolutely immaculate game you got there chap

youtube.com/watch?v=kshiTrSDles

No, it was a problem. It was fine in 1, you already couldn't heal whenever unless you wanted to get your shit smacked in. In 2 they slowed it down to the point of obnoxiousness. There's a fine line to be drawn, and 2 crossed it. You had to wait until a boss had a ton of cooldown to safely heal. This isn't MonHun where you can just run away from the boss to heal safely in a battle that's designed to take half an hour; in 2 it grinds the battle to a screeching halt as you need to look for an opening to heal, which is terrible. It completely ruins the pace.
Letting invaders heal was absolutely fucking horrible though, that we can probably all agree with.

There already was a risk to using estus, you either stop moving or slow down, you can't use weapons or block, and you are left wide open for an attack.

You shouldn't leave enough space between you and an opponent for him to use an estus and not get hit for it.

Nothing compared to DS3.

>shit level design is okay when BASED MIYAZAKI does it

nice meme video though, really changed my outlook... not

The game wasn't even bad, just not as good as DaS

>look at all these lines and dots
>sure individual level design is fucking abhorrent BUT MORE LINES AND DOTS

...

They aren't fucking arguments, for the last god damn time. But fine, I'll humor you because you clearly want attention.

>The bad level design
Opinion. It was quite good but especially so in the early game like the Forest of Giants.

>all mobs are swarms
Hyperbole, not an argument. Enemy swarms exist in every single game, including Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne where the lack of poise makes them much worse than in 2.

>lazy bosses (big example: Ornstein for no reason).
If you can't find a reason to see why Ornstein is there the fault lies with you for being blinded by hate, not with the game.

>Cashed in on the "THIS GAME IS GARD GUIZ" meme without checking to see if it's hard but fair
Another "I suck at the game, it must be artificial difficulty!" non-argument.

>Badly designed DLC
Your opinion, and a very poor and contrarian one at that. The DLCs, their bosses in particular, are commonly revered as much as the higher rated games like Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne.

So you admit to indirectly saying it?

See:

>shitty individual level design is okay when BASED MIYAZAKI does it MUH LINES N DOTS DARK SOULS IS BETTER WHEN ITS JUST ONE GIANT HALLWAY ANYWAY xdd

This here is the real argument honestly.
We all know 2 is inferior except for the retarded adamant DS2 defenders. The real argument is whether or not 2 is still a decent game or a shitty one.

>not seeing Ash Lake from Demon Ruins means that Ds2's world is good

absolutely wew

I ha more the level design than the art direction, but you're right, there's definitely some call back too there.

Only the retarded adamant DS2 haters think it's a shitty game. Every single Souls game (yes, even that one you don't like!) is very good compared to the current shit spewed out by today's industry. They're some of the best ever made.

>putting words in my mouth like you put dicks in yours
absolutely not an argument

Except 2. 2 is mediocre at best. Solid 6/10. There's just too much wrong with it.
Then again I don't play many shitty games because I don't have bad taste so my view is a little skewed. I'm sure if you play a lot of AAA trash 2 must seem like a breath of fresh air.

Just because dark souls 2 is less linear than 3 doesn't mean it's automatically the better game.

3 and 1 had far superior level design.

Doesn't matter how many branches are in your tree if they're all rotted and covered in crow shit.

Yes yes shitposter, well done, well done

HOWEVER

Your opinion is not fact.

>this entire post

*tip* *tip* *tip* *tip* *tip*

>If you can't find a reason to see why Ornstein is there the fault lies with you for being blinded by hate, not with the game.
He has no reason (lore wise) being there

>Another "I suck at the game, it must be artificial difficulty!" non-argument.

your entire post is a non-argument when you say something like that

> The DLCs, their bosses in particular, are commonly revered as much as the higher rated games like Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne.
except the DLC was so badly designed (like the rest of the game) that I fought no bosses.

>So you admit to indirectly saying it?
I don't admit to it at all.

I like how you didn't bring up the Ornifrex bullshit.

it's sub-par

>calling someone that proves you wrong a fag
DaS2 fanboys, everyone.

@352650615
>I fought no bosses.

>>>>The shitposter finally admits to never having played an essential part of the game he's shitposting about
HAHAHAHHA
You'll get no more (You)s from me, fella.

>Opinion. It was quite good but especially so in the early game like the Forest of Giants.
Not him but this is the easiest way to tell when someone is a fucking mongoloid
DaSII level design past bastille was pure utter garbage in vanilla and if you think anything beyond FoFG, Wharf, Bastille, and the DLC areas were above anything higher than "unacceptable" then you are a colossal retard looking to argue as much as possible to defend a single game and there is no saving you

Honestly? 2 is a mixed bag of epic proportions, but on some respects I certainly think it did things better than 3.

3 certainly is the better product, it's slicker, better designed overall. But if you're more sensitive to some of what 2 did well, I can easily see why you would prefer it.

Neither is anyone's opinion.
But in my opinion, 2 is not even close to a great game, and I think its defenders are just too used to being shoveled bad games.
Souls games getting big was the worst fucking thing to happen to the series

Ah yes the amazing DLC boss: Kalameet: Electric Boogaloo: weapon durability damage edition.

Wtf I hate ds2 now! Really made me think!

Dark souls 3 was actually good, unlike 2

If DS2 had some better level and boss design, it would have easily been the best in the series, the rest was there.
The mechanics were mostly balanced
Builds were varied and fun.

Unfortunately a few covenants were broke and Soul memory was a thing.

Dark souls 3 hit us with
>LoL straight sword meta
>LoL what is poise
>millions of dodges making endurance less important and great weapons less viable in pvp
>Hyped up weapon arts but it turned out they were mostly shit.
They tried to make Dark Souls 3/Bloodbourne 2 and the game suffered for it.

kek

and a *tip* for you m'sir! such mongoloids! *scoffs*

way to not read the entire post, shitposter.

I fought no DLC bosses. I beat the main story.

exactly

>DaSII level design past bastille was pure utter garbage in vanilla

If you didn't at least smirk at Aldia's Keep, you have no soul - pun or no pun. I always loved From's humor through level design, and this was grand.

>But if you're more sensitive to some of what 2 did well
What did it do well again? More rings and more magic? Build variety? Wow, really makes me want to prefer it over a game with actual good design.

What was humorous about it?

not an argument

the fuk?

You don't quite seem to understand what we mean by level design.
We're talking the way the level is constructed and laid out, not its aesthetics. Which is funny because Aldia is one of the worst levels in the game, and some of the biggest wasted potential in the game.

Let me guess, you're about 30 years old, never had a girlfriend, are fat, are a virgin, exclusively consume weeaboo media and products while claiming that western ones are "inferior", "trash", and so on?

Present an argument first and you shall receive a counter-argument.

AWAY AWAY

They tricked the player into thinking it was a fun are to explore in the trailers and in the full game it was a literal hallway with some optional monsters in it that takes 10 minutes max to fully complete.
Really made me laugh the first time I played through it. Was just howling.

epic samefag
dark souls 3 was actually a piece of shit and 2 was marginally better

I get it, haha!

Cause every dark souls game is just a cycle repeated, with all the original souls being reanimated into different things? Thats just how the game is, its all a cycle
Same argument, but some I think you can consider it just 'needed' to be in the game like Havel, who wasn't as big of a character, like how Cid is in every Final fantasy game, its just a thing they like to keep in the game, regardless how minor it is

EVERYONE hover over the link

I found 3 to be more enjoyable than 2

kinda helps when 3 removed a stat that was in 2 that was poorly explained

>perfectly timed
>still take damage
Obviously not perfectly timed then. I can consistently roll through attacks at SL1 on DS2. Maybe you just need to git gud :^)

@352650893
You fought no DLC bosses but your mighty opinion of the DLCs being bad is still tossed around like it means anything. If you cannot grasp what is wrong here, you are autistic and need help.

That is pretty funny!
What's even funnier was they spent all this time and marketing on their lighting engine that wasn't even in the game and its absence made the game look terrible! Now THAT'S good humor.

the DaS2 fanboys are forcing a meme that the DLC magically fixes the game.

It's shit like the main game

@352651368
Yes, that's totally what I implied.
Shut up, idiot.

>das - 370h
>das2 - 60h
>das3 - 180h
really makes you think

I like all the games but honestly:

DS2 > DS1 > DS3


DS3 has the sweetest first playthrough, but it all falls apart after that. When you go back to try a different playstyle or route through the game, you realize there's very little content there. I would even argue that while the level design feels great at first, it gets fucking boring after 1-2 playthroughs. Idk what it is, but I almost always quit out of the game whenever I get to Cathedral of the Deep, Farron Keep, or Irithyll Dungeon. It's weird because I loved these zones the first time, but they felt like a chore going through them again on a subsequent playthrough.

There's less weapons, less (and more shitty) spells, less armor, and just less stuff to play with and make interesting, varied builds with. The bosses are mostly fine, thouigh. The lore is cool if n o s t a l g i a does it for you, but I was personally annoyed that they didn't take more creative risk with the story. At least DS2 had the balls to try and tell a different story, and Scholar really made the lore more compelling. Aldia and Vendrick's stories are some of the most interesting Dark Souls lore now imo.

If someone is the type to play a Souls game once and then never again, sure. I can see how DS2 is the worst and 3 is the best from that perspective. When you try to get more out of your game though, you quickly realize how much more meat and content there is to play with in DS2 and how little there is in DS3. Yes, DS2 has some issues that DS3 handles better, but 1000+ hours proved to me that the variety and depth of content outweighed those negatives. My 2 playthroughs of DS3 can't say the same.

>the DLC is shit!
>but i didnt play it

L I T E R A L autism. your brain doesnt work right. you need professional help.

>The vanilla DaS2 is disappointing sure, but Scholar is AMAZING, easily the best Souls game by far
My favorite DaS2 defense force line

Anyone that says Demon's Souls was the best Souls game is a nostalgiafag.

>ds1 - 200h
>ds2 - 469h
>ds2 sotfs - 194h
>ds3 - 100h

Forces you to ponder.

>literally replying to yourself

Ah yes, the anime reaction image from a fag that clearly never played Scholar must have the more reputable opinion here. Wtf I hate dark souls 2 now! Really made me think.

>More content added by devs to fix mistakes and improve the game
>It doesn't count cause the first alteration has to be the example of all arguments!!!

So you saying a game can't go through patches and has be good at the start or its forever shit?

just wondering

was das2 your first souls?

Yeah but...
DaS2 has bad design, so who gives a shit. There's a lot of content but none of it is very fun. I'm glad you could squeeze so much enjoyment out of a turd, good on you, but it doesn't change the shitty level design, shitty bosses, shitty enemies, shitty controls, and shitty mechanics. Replay value means nothing when the game you're replaying is sub-par

My favourite is "dark souls goes to shit after you get the lordvessel"

I can't stand vanilla DaSII in any shape or form and probably hate it the most out of everyone here, but the DLC's are just plain good. Only real concerns are those fucking terrible coop areas and some enemies having just way too much poise. Other than that they are straight upgrades from vanilla.

I did play the DLC you idiot.

>but Scholar is AMAZING, easily the best Souls game by far
it's still bad.

I only see one (You)

except Scholar didn't fix a thing

wrong

>DaS2 fags this easily triggered

DS1 - 1500
DS2 - 2000
BB - 1000
DS3 - 200

Except it did?
You one those guys who couldn't get past pre-patched SoA?
its ok user, the game was made easier for you

I'm with you on Cathedral and Dungeon, but Farron Keep is probably the most non-linear area in the entire game. I really enjoy it. Every playthrough I do, I figure out a different way to clear it or I internalize new geographical connections. Which is funny because it doesn't take much work to design an area by making it a massive circular swamp with points of interest scattered around, but it fucking worked.

Demon's souls was. I just listed the hours I have played on the steam versions, If I had to guess for DeS I'd say I played 150h.

>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE REEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
I laughed.

>I did play the DLC
Except you never fully completed them.

>except Scholar didn't fix a thing
Because you never played it.

Why is it only "shit" or "not shit" with you? Yes, I would agree that the level design is lesser overall when compared to DS1 and DS3, but it clearly wasn't an unplayable travesty when myself and so many others got so many hours out of it.

>More content added by devs to fix mistakes and improve the game
>It doesn't count cause the first alteration has to be the example of all arguments!!!
No no, that's not what I'm saying.
DaS2 fags pretend SotFS magically fixed what was wrong with 2. It didn't. It's still shit.

Is Dark Soul 1 worth playing on xbox one?

@352651732
>I was only pretending to be retarded!
Shoo shoo lonely virgin. We're having a discussion here and your futile attempts to stir shit up will not come to pass.

not even a DaS2 fag, i just think animeposters are the lowest of the low and if i were given the opportunity, i would put a gun to your head and blow your brains out. not even trying to sound edgy right now, im just telling you how i feel about your constant shitposts.

Well, as they say, there's no accounting for taste.
My theory is after playing through so many bad games, DaS2 fags are just amazed by 2 because to them, a slightly above-average game is an incredible experience. It's honestly kind of sad. I feel bad for you guys.

SotFS changes nothing except except enemy placements and giving you the DLC with the base game.

maybe DS2 fags don't think their game is bad cause it was fun :^) so when they got the dlc they had
More fun

I made it past SoA pre-patch. Also, said patch was applied before DLC so it doesn't count as the DLC fixed it.

Used poison arrows to do it.

Same way you probably do with you probably being a pepe and wojak poster.

The poison (which isn't too lethal, admittedly), spots in the swamp that slow you down, and fast enemies that fly through said spots all make it mostly annoying to me. I actually ignore most of the items save for the Estus shard and I just fucking book it to all the signal fires ASAP.

Nice shitpost

>Thinly veiled attempt to get more people to post smug anime faces
Gotcha covered senpai

Now, to answer your question:
- Interesting thematic linking of narrative and gameplay (the central theme of exhaustion and self-consumption, relinquishment and the refusal to let go).
- Player controlled difficulty scaling (ties into the former; I think it was a really promising mechanic - though better suited to another game).
- Level design of individual zones (this is especially true of the DLC - I actually actively disliked what DS3 did in some respects on that)

>You don't quite seem to understand what we mean by level design.

That or you're not quite as adept at reading level design as you"d think.

Aldia is a corridor. You can go in a straight line, meet two enemies, and then the boss.

But then the people who made that level *know* players. They put switches and tell you not to activate them.They put closed doors. And becasue you're player you *have* to activate all those switches. Open all those doors. Explore every nook and cranny. And suddenly the place is hell. And it's all your fault.

From loves that kind of things - early King's Field had a secret passage in a secret passage in a secret passage... that would trigger a deathly spike trap... and that's it. It's a mean joke, but it's a fun one, if you're on to it design-wise.

Changes a lot of item placements, too, and adds petrified soldiers everywhere to give you less freedom.

Try to actually play it. You're not fooling anybody.

There are more shortcuts.
There are more darkened areas making the torch a necessity.
Many items are moved around along with enemies.
New petrified statues blocking certain areas are added.
There are new items, enemies, and a boss.

Nice shitpost.

God how many times do I have to tell you this?

It's the visuals. The visuals and the animations ruined fucking everything.

>Except you never fully completed them.
becuase they were badly designed. I also only touched Sunken King. If Sunken King was bad, I expected the others to be bad so I never purchased them

>Because you never played it.
I have seen footage. Not a damn thing was fixed

It would be the GOAT Souls swamp level with something like the Rusted Iron Ring.

Fucking hell, this is some grade-A delusion at work here. Simply a supreme example of cognitive dissonance. And the poor thing is still posting this as if nothing is wrong with his logic!

>- Interesting thematic linking of narrative and gameplay (the central theme of exhaustion and self-consumption, relinquishment and the refusal to let go).
That's true. The game is about forgetting, and they made the game really forgettable. Truly a masterwork.
Also, really? You're saying that Aldia is well designed because it's actually a pile of shit? Holy fuck, a new low. Incredible.

Oh, excuse my rudeness! I had no idea I was conversing with a gentlemen of such refined tastes. *tip

The DLC made it alright, but it was ugly in comparison to the other games. There was a large variety of weapons, but none of them felt any different and most of them shared the move sets of their weapon class. Only good thing was that you could actually make an attractive female character desu.

Amazing level design, punishing the player for actually playing the game. This is fucking ridiculous.

>I feel bad for you guys.
We don't think about (You) at all.

What, you mean like through backwards compatibility?

Go for it if you want I guess. Dark Souls 1 offers the best experience out of the 3.

I thought it was fine desu

Same shit happened in Dark Souls 1 if you explored the crumbly part of Lost Izalith before the end step of Siegmeyer's questline.

It's okay man, I understand. You grew up playing western AAA trash, and you're finally getting your first taste of superior Eastern games, even through a mediocre lens such as DaS2. But it's time to move on; there are better and brighter pastures ahead. It's time to let go of DaS2 and move on to truly good games.

>play game
>don't like it
>say it's bad

where's the flaw in the logic?

It's a joke level. And again, if you're in on the joke, it's a pretty funny one. And it's short enough not to overstay its welcome (anymore mimic would have been one too much methinks).

>there are more shortcuts
there is 1
>There are more darkened areas making the torch a necessity.
this is outright not true
>Many items are moved around along with enemies.
as expected, yes
>New petrified statues blocking certain areas are added.
This is a fucking positive to you? Are you serious?
>There are new items, enemies, and a boss.
As I only played sotfs and not regular so i cant comment on every individual item, but the new "boss" they added was probably the fucking saddest boss I have ever seen
which is truly astounding considering how bad some dasii bosses were

This is almost "blighttown framerate was a reflection of your character's psyche" tier but not quite.

>DaS2 fags don't think about anything
Makes sense honestly

>posting this
>even ironically
Jesus christ.
Please learn to love yourself.

>play game
You added in something that never happened.

Not much, it was pretty fun. Anyone who has an insane problem with it is either autistic, or memeing.

Note that I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm also not saying that there are no problems with it. The game just gets blasted out a bit too much though.

I think I'd like that a lot.

>N-no guys!! It's a joke level I swear!!
Holy fuck dude. How much is the B-Team paying you?

>It's time to let go of DaS2 and move on to truly good games.

exactly

>anyone who doesn't like or is able to find fault with it is either autistic or joking

>this is outright not true

This is outright actually true and you're either retarded or have never played SotFS. Two examples are in areas behind locked doors in the Forest of Fallen Giants.

well actually ill correct myself, i guess the gutter and undead crypt a torch is somewhat useful
so there i guess

Jesus you are literally text book definition of autistic.

Kek

>Falling for the b8
user please, you're just giving him what he wants

the guy said to move onto better games than DaS2.

So I posted one

That's a fair point, but that's not nearly as egregious. You miss out on a slab. Of which there are unlimited numbers.

FROM has never been good at NPC quests that can't be easily accidentally fucked up. But they have been good at level design.

>anyone who doesn't like or is able to find fault
>has an insane problem
Cred Forums is fucking retarded tonight.

Read the second sentence shitposter-san.

It's not Cred Forums, it's just DaS2 defenders. They're not very bright, hence why they like DaS2 so much

>thinking there aren't people actually like this on Cred Forums

This place is infested with weeaboos user. It's come to a point where the autistic can't be told apart from the "ironic" autists...

>sorcerer actually viable
Archer is pretty viable too considering you have to kite most enemies in the game to kill them.
Spectacular game design.

If it had been a direct copy-paste of Dark Souls it would still be wrong.

>FROM has never been good at NPC quests that can't be easily accidentally fucked up.

hell, I accidentally fucked up the Ornifrex questline in DaS2

You may not enjoy the joke - or may not be literate enough in level design to spot it - but it's there. From has a history of it going back to King's Field. People that have played their games for a long while kinda expect it.

Personally I like it. Mean spirited like a spike to the head.

No, it's actually not even Cred Forums or DaS2 defenders, it's pretty much just you for having literally no reading comprehension.

Also, you can easily avoid that on subsequent playthroughs without affecting your fun. Just do Izalith last. On the other hand, apparently the "right" way to go through Aldia's Keep is just to run right down the hallway without actually clearing out the area?

>implying the faults with dark souls 2 aren't major

Fucking kek.

The "right" way if easier = better for you. But then you're missing on the joke.

Didn't the game switch Directors near the end of the project?

>Lulus sweet lalas in HD
Is that without mods? I might seriously consider getting the HD version if not.

Yes, from Shibuya the Hack to Tanimura the Reluctant Janitor. Tanimura did a good job of cleaning up what he could to the point where he became co-director for Dark Souls 3.

Easier = better if I don't have to fight two extra enemies with the worst hitboxes in the entire game.

Or I guess, I'm not being charitable, if you happen to believe the purpose of a zone is to be cleared of all enemies, regardless of necessity.

I want a purely Tanimura directed Souls game. It'd be 10/10.

I liked it. It's easier to replay than Dark Souls 1 because it has a lot less tedious walking and boring-ass level design than Dark Souls 1.

so who knows how many of the problems could be attributed to Shibuya and how many come from Tanimura.

There's a ton of interviews. It was Shitbuya's idea to add Soul Memory if I recall correctly.

Anyone?

5.5 million SM trying to get Sunlight Medals, where's a good spot???

As much as I'll defend DS2 for some things I find it did right, teleport from the start is one of the worst things it did for me - and DS3's failures in level design only goes to show why.

The zones all feel disjointed, little to no cohesion. Little to no overall sense of space and exploration.

>teleport from the start is one of the worst things it did for me
How? Teleporting from the start is a god send. The problem wasn't that but how there were so many bonfires to teleport to.

Sometimes it's worth it to sacrifice conveniency for something greater user. Maybe one day you'll understand

No, it made the developers lazy and not want to physically connect areas because "lel you can just warp back to Majula".

And guess what happened to the level design of DaS as soon as you got the Lordvessel and could warp? It turned into linear branches. DaS2fags can't keep their flap shut about it, so I'd expect them to have a little awareness about how their favourite series entry does the same thing for the ENTIRE game.

I'll quote myself from a previous thread, don't think I can put it better:

DaS was a game about space. At its best it hit that plateau between old arcade games in which you have to master the level to get though, and RPGs in which clearing a level expands the playing field. It was a game about resistance and planning, that became more and more sprawling as it enfolded. Slow and meticulous.

Now with its linearity, shortcuts that are overall more about avoiding the individual zones once cleared rather than linking seemingly far apart places, teleport from the start, DaS3 becomes a game about *bosses*. *They* are the defining feature. It's a game about strong beats, very different pacing.

>Implying DaS2 fags have strong capacity for critical thought
Why do they think they love DaS2 so much?

>DaS2fags can't keep their flap shut about it
Teleporting from the start isn't even exclusive to DaS2, you autist.

You posted that before and didn't get any epic replies the first time.

Well yeah, there's no arguing with the truth after all

YOOOOOOO WHAT MOD IS THIS?

Truly maded me have a thought/

I'm just saying it's funny that DaS2fags always love to say that DaS went to shit after the Lordvessel but the reasons it got worse are reflected in the entirety of DaS2.

DeS didn't pretend it had a massive world. It had 5 worlds which were composed of at least two big levels and a final boss each. But within each world and level, you still had high cohesion.

DaS2 takes away the non-linearity of the majority of DaS but doesn't use it to the same effect as DeS. It just throws randomly themed areas in succession.

Point is, the connection between e.g. Earthen Peak and Iron Keep already makes no sense. A connection to any other area would have worked the same way, so why keep the progression boring?

PvE or PvP?

Harvest Valley Mines have 3 mounted giant enemies (guys that fire dark based attack) close by they can drop it as a rare drop.

what version? if you're playing Scholar, you can farm the Falconers near the forked road bonfire in the Shaded Woods area.

At least most of the DaS3 bosses are solid. They picked a good thing to focus on.

>you will never beat the shit out of people with the Bone Fist/broken Santier's combo ever again

Being a kung fu master was the funnest shit ever and I wish FROM brought it back for DaS3

They might bring those back in a future DLC.

>best build variety, magic is completely viable unlike the other games
Yeah. magic was so weak in Das 1 I never once got a kill with Pursuers, homing crystal soul mass, dark bead, crystal soul spear, lighting spear, Weapon buffs combined with the falchion on ricards rapier, wrath of the gods, and Fire tempest. great thing they buffed magic

Why can't we all agree that all the games are just pretty good? These threads are aids 100% of the time.

God I hope so

Throwing yourself at people with a flying kick into crazy Shaolin spinning spear moves was fucking fun as shit

Which is good if that's what you expected/hoped from the game.

Really been disappointed myself. Not to say the game is bad, would be stupid. As I said up-thread, Honestly? 3 certainly is the better product, it's slicker, better designed overall than 2. It's just a slicker design of something I find less compelling overall. 2 manages to hit some notes that make it more interesting - when it actually does. But then, yeah, it's all over the place, and doesn't provide much of a cohesive experience.

Nah, it's not. DaS is still my favourite out of the series because it focused on precisely what I like most in video games. It's why I like the KF games, too.

Must be why they nerfed the fuck out of magic in DS3. or anythin that isn't a Quality build, really.

Refined Gem nerf when?

after getting bored with ds3 after only my 3rd playthrough I realized that ds2:sotfs is the best game of the series.

>Nah, it's not.

Just to be sure we understand each other: it's not what?

PLEAAAASE, SOMEONE TELL ME

It's not what I expected or hoped for. But I still like it just because it plays so damn well with my ultra weaponfus.

>make a Mike Haggar gimmick build in DaS3
>can barely get anywhere because fist weapons are so fucking awful

This is legitimately fucking miserable

Caestus is amazing because of GOAT WA Perseverance.

I guess I could try again

Gotta dump a fuckload of stats into HP though, because no Haggar is a true Haggar unless he's shirtless. I do wish there was something that approximated a lead pipe though

Holy fuck, the zelda cycle is real
you are really a bunch of contrarian fagoots

Yeah, Perseverance is all about trading so you need dat Vigor.

PvE preferably. I am playing Scholar, but I heard the droprate of the medals is abysmal.

don't forget your Endurance! Haggar doesn't get winded in the middle of a fight like an out of practice jobber!

What else should I dump points into? Perseverance doesn't use a ton of FP from what I remember but getting any meaningful damage out of the Caestus is a chore

Good point

Not even a DaS2 fan, but if you can't understand why certain players (mainly those that love PvP) vastly prefer 2 to other entries in the series then I think you're the one lacking critical thinking skills.

hope you've got a Covetous Gold Serpent Ring and the Agape ring, because you will be farming those Falconers damn-near forever.

Ah yeah, SM is great for facilitating PvP.

Why the agape ring? Relationship between Soul level and item drop?

GIANT BUTTPLUG EDITION

youtube.com/watch?v=zbbOdjww8BE

mostly for controlling your Soul Memory if you care about things like that, it wasn't uncommon for me to gain 100,000 souls in between Sunlight Medals.

keep in mind, these guys drop like, 700 souls or so and there's 5 at the spot I mentioned.

Go Refined.

Even with SM the PVP community in all of its forms in DaS2 lasted well until 3 was released. Right now I can go and try to invade anywhere but the Grand Archives and it will take damn near forever to connect to someone.

What SL and upgrade level?

I've got quite a few characters:
For high level invasions I use 90 with 10+
Low level invasions is 35 with 5+
For duels I have a meta 120 with 10+

I had to create 3 different characters to perform different functions. That's my point really: PVP in all its forms at just about every level and build worked better in 2. I prefer single player action so I like 2 the least overall in the series, but I'm not so jaded that I can't see at least some of the things that 2 did well.

Except because of SM you either have to:
a) waste a ring slot for the Agape Ring, assuming you bought SotFS
b) keep leveling up as you get souls or else you will end up fighting players who are just overpowered compared to you
Having different characters works just fine. That said, DaS3 is linear as fuck and creating new characters without Collector's Edition isn't nearly as fun as it was in DaS.

That's the quality infusion, right?

Yeah.

Dark Souls 2 had excellent multiplayer and tons of build variety, I can forgive all it's flaws for that.

3's multiplayer is shit, 1's was better but not great.

Plus why the fuck would they get rid of poise and make magic junk in 3? Fucking gay. Let's kill build variety because BASED MIYAZAKI MUH A-TEAM. Please.

fpbp

I think Agape ring was patched into the original as well. SM never bothered me to be honest. It actually made PVP pretty balanced if you just use multiplayer to supplement a single player run through. Once my build was done I just use one of the ring slots and I'm locked in for life for invasions, dueling, or coop.

>It actually made PVP pretty balanced if you just use multiplayer to supplement a single player run through.
Oh, sure. Won't argue with that. I think DaS3's "weapon memory" also does a good job of that, although it would be better if it was the max in your inventory so you could put things in your box to take it back down. Only difference is it doesn't fuck up dedicated PvP in the process.

>Once my build was done I just use one of the ring slots and I'm locked in for life for invasions, dueling, or coop.
IMO it's an unacceptable band-aid "solution". It's a big "fuck you" because you know they acknowledge the problem without really putting any effort into looking for a better way.

So were at an agreement that 1>3>2?

Did you even read the thread? 1=2>3

Everything you said about weapon memory is spot on. It is the vastly superior system for matchmaking.

I will say I'm glad that From at least gave us a bandaid to fix a shitty mechanic like SM. So far in 3 there is no fix for infinite host summons, practically infinite rolls, and dearth of viable PVP weapons.

Yes

Yeah. My DaS3 PvP experience has basically just been /dsg/ fight clubs where you can basically use anything and win at least some of the time since everybody else is doing the same thing, stomping invaders as I'm playing through (obviously not with a summon), and raging at actual invasions because they're so fucking stacked against the invader.

Organized PvP is fantastic. Other stuff, not so much.

That's bullshit, absolutely no one played 3 more than the other two, just looking at how fast the online community dropped after the release of 3 shows you that fact.
3 was the most linear, with the most narrow viable builds to pick from, with the least replayability.
You're the exception if you did play 3 more than the others.
But why was 2 so damn ugly, I'm playing RE4 and the castle in many ways looks better than the ones in DaS2, embarrassing that such an old game does that.

Anyone else feel after playing Dark Souls 3 a bunch that DS2 was better than it? I really hated DS2 when it came out, but now I don't mind it, and honestly think that DS1>DS2>DS3

I played 3 more than 2.

>3 was the most linear, with the most narrow viable builds to pick from, with the least replayability.
On paper, you'd be right, but the game plays so well that I've kept playing it. Unlike DaS2 which seems like it would be much more replayable but just isn't fundamentally fun enough for me. DaS was more replayable than DaS2 again but I think DaS3 plays the best out of all of them.

No.

I did, and the commonly held opinion is those who know 1>3>2, and those few who say 2>1>3.

I'd be willing to concede that Scholar of the First Sin = Dark Souls 3 but that's it.

no, I'll never forgive 2 for having such shitty vanilla content
3's problem really do start to come out of the woodwork though once you start playing it enough, limiting most of the fun options for builds until endgame with little ways to get to them and the even higher stat requirements and little/no shortcuts? Build variety took a huge hit to the teeth.

it wasnt scholar edition

>tfw no Souls game with the magic of DeS, world of DaS, balance of DaS2, and gameplay of DaS3

>gameplay of DaS2 and graphics of DaS3
FTFY

DaS2 has balance?

As I said in the thread, the things DS2 and DS3 each do right being different, which you prefer is entirely going to be dependent on what you want from the games.

Replaying DS2 right now, and at some individual moments I certainly prefer it to DS3, easily. But then when it's bad I think it's also worse.

DaS2's gameplay is horrible except for power stancing. Nothing fucking matches up with what you see: hitboxes, timing of windows, animations and movement, etc. Even then, there were only a few different power stanced movesets whereas the dual weapons of DaS3 are all unique.

Everything is viable, even moreso than DaS. At least according to Cred Forums. I never PvPed enough in DaS2 to find out for myself.

I swesr to god this thread with the same messages came up three nights ago.

There's a thread about ds2 every day user

I'm kind of guilty for some of the samey posts, I directly copy pasted some of them from previous thread.

No point in rewriting something I had put right.