Why are tanks in high demand when it comes to mmos...

>a more engaging experience
You mean a boring zerg rush.

How is the Dante dps?

Tanks are in short supply because it's incredibly obvious when you fuck something up compared to other classes. DPS can easily get away with being shitters in everything except very high end content and healing in anything other than very high end content is the most braindead easy shit imagineable. Not that tanking is particularly hard mind but your mistakes are way more apparent than on other roles.

Why hasn't anyone come up with a better system than the trinity yet? Could it be that the trinity is just perfect?

>durr I'm a retard that only thinks of basic things
I'm sorry you have no imagination

Its alright, flashy as hell and fun but not the highest. Also 3 million years worth of i-frames.

Tanks are held to higher standards. It's easier to tell bad tanks and healers than DPS.

so are you guys enjoying guild wars 2 so far?

Because the dps won't listen.

Guild Wars 2 already tried that and it sucks ass

You only need 1-2 tanks in raids of sometimes 25

Then you get boring shit like GW2.

Explain to me how a boss encounter with no trinity would play out other than just everyone playing for themselves.

>guy posts the actual reason
>poster says to ignre the post.

sit down junior. tanking can be fun as fuck if you are good at it and the game isnt shit. It's just more stressful than healing or dpsing.

Damn it, I'm getting the urge to sit through the big ass download and patch process again
How's the new player experience and do I need to worry about being banned for speaking english

>no crowd control class
>no class support/mob debuff classes
the triangle is absolute shit.

>Make a tank
>Can't join a guild unless its a new one, every guild has their two or three tanks that have been there since the beginning and go to ever raid
>Switch to DPS to actually join a guild
>Get no tank gear
>Can't tank

>he's never tanked in FFXI or FFXIV

>Why hasn't anyone come up with a better system than the trinity yet?
because making mmos is a multi million dollar business and companies would rather invest it what is tried and true rather than try new things.

>everyone playing for themselves

That's exactly how it works. GW2 tried to remove healers and tanks and as a result all group content was basically all guardians/warriors because they took more damage and had more heals/utility

Buff and debuff was my favorite thing to do in the best game ever made

>tfw you pull threat off the tank but you can't stop going all out with your rotation
The whole time the boss is walking over to one shot me I'm thinking that I should stop, but I can't.

the trinity was more complex in old MMOs like EQ and FF11. each class was unique and brought something to the table, especially EQ Enchanters and Bards, or FF11 Bards.

Say what you want about SWG but at least it had some variety in class roles. Granted some were useless in some respects

Ship 2 is already infested with english, you'd have to be a right annoying asshole constantly in all chat to get banned for being a gaijin there.

The new player experience is all sorts of fucked up, Sega likes to just ignore old content and pretend it never happened so you have these weird power leaps where you skip entire massive tiers of equipment as you jump through levels way faster than the old curve used to be.

Basically if its not a 10-star rarity or above, its not worth fuck all and not worth keeping. Just equip it if its got a bigger number and vendor trash anything else.

Absolutely DO NOT fuck up feeding your mag.

youtube.com/watch?v=7YmMUS5HJxA
Here's a video of what you can expect from playing Gunner

Look at

>tfw you realized one mob got away
>it's headed straight for your healer

Might as well D.C. Right then

Why do so many people play DPS?

Boring as fuck just spam your rotation all day long maybe try to optimise it a little for the fight meanwhile Tank and Healer handle all important mechanics, control boss positioning, heal your sorry ass through those aoes you stand in and also deal damage themselves.

DPS are for retard shitters only.

I always figured it's called the "holy trinity" because those three classes are absolutely essential to a party, not that those are the only classes in the game.

Tanking is boring as anything else in XIV, never played XI to compare though.

How to solve lack of tanks:

Remove "dps" and make them more support focused instead of damage focused.
Let tanks and healers deal actual damage instead of hitting shit with wet noodles.
Tank mechanics that aren't just push taunt when the other guy(s) gets a debuff and press cooldown when boss uses damage skill.

You figured correctly.

People like to feel like they're doing something. You can watch a life bar go down. Tanks and healers are more about making sure shit doesn't change more or less

I can't really tell you but most people want to play the "dps" classes that do a lot of damage/kills in every game it seems.
It's the same in mobas(everybody wants to play carry), Battlefield(nobody plays medic, numberous snipers) or TF2/Overwatch(nobody wants to play the healer).
I guess people feel better about themselves when they have many kills or something,

Also because CC and Buff/Debuff can be handled by the three roles anyhow.

Adding two or more whole goddamn classes just for that would be redundant as fuck at best add one that revolves around CC/Buff/Debuff and be done with it.

Could be the holy quad or whatever for all anyone cares.

CC and debuffs are absolutely essential in any non-braindead MMO.

I think DCUO did something like that, i know it had Healers/tank/control

I don't think it had DPS, but it's been awhile

Thanks, think I'll get started this weekend

Its always exciting to be doing the killing.

>Summoner
EP5's class better be good and fun, fuck that class in general.

It's flashier and they offer a lot of varieties in play style.

I have to disagree.
FF XI has a whole job dedicated to debuffing (rdm) and I liked that very much.

Whenever I see my brother play tortanic, where every debuff is handled by dps/tank and only last like 5 seconds, I think that's boring as fuck.

Responsibility. If you DPS terribly, nobody will notice unless it's a DPS check boss, which only the first 2 bosses of any raid will usually be.

If you fuck up as a healer, there are normally plenty of other healers in the raid to make up for you.

If you fuck up as a tank, there' only one other tank, and swap mechanics exist. That other tank will then promptly die, adn then the raid will wipe.

DPS is the only class that should exist

Git Gud and dodge.

There needs to be a 4th type of class added
If you have high health, high damage, and high heals then the other one should be high luck aka the wild card

Not as important than a tank, a healer and someone who actually does damage.
And a trinity is limited to 3.

Which is why I say you could just add one role that handles a sortakinda indirect means of interacting with mobs by doing the whole buff/debuff/cc all in one package without needing to stroke themselves off about how much DPS they're doing or how well they can manage their healing to mana usage ratio or whatever the fuck.

Actually it doesn't sound that terrible but it'll be ages before that ever becomes a mainstream option.

It had DPS too. Each power set could do DPS and either Tank/Heal/Control.

Yeah I wish support/control had more prominence in mmos.

There is a 4th class crafters/jews

It's not about getting good, you dumb faggot, it's about team play. If everyone can do everything then where does teamwork come in?

It would be broken. Either too unreliable or too good.

>have more fun Jewing people in the markets than I do actually playing the content

>holy trinity
wtf I hate this!

Seriously this needs to end.

>Tree of Savior could have been great
>huge class variety and customisation
>souless koreans cancerify it in every way possible

Team work revolving around a trinity is closeminded and retarded. If you really think that's the only way team unity can exist than you should rethink everything.

main reason is if you fuck up even once your a shit tank even if its your first run through a place you are required to know how to do it without one fuck up. The main reason being people cant react and need it to be scripted to that one method they saw on youtube.

>the trinity is fucking shit. all it does is force people to play stale cookie cutter roles. just get rid of it and let people be free to build their character how they want
>remove trinity
>everyone is exactly the same now that you don't have to rely on other players to help you.

Tanking is pretty boring. Most boss fights require all three roles to learn the mechanics, but as a DPS you have a metric to try to improve on each run, where the tank just needs to not fuck up.

>MMO doesn't have a healer class
Dropped

...

Then give other examples of teamwork without trinity. Vindictus so far has a few boss specific mechanics that aren't even much about teamwork and hold the boss abilities that then proceed to go on a massive cooldown and everyone just lets them rip when they are ready anyway. Oh right Evie can revive and heal too bad everyone can revive and heal too.

in reality if you arent doing max damage then you are fucking up. but dps gets a free pass because there is usually more of them.

>MMO has a healer class
>I'm not a buttslut the entire raid and actually get to attack

It doesn't have to be that way.

Pic related

>healer is expected to dps
If I wanted to dps I would pick fucking dps.

Cred Forums doesn't know how deep EVE gets so this is a poor example

>All I want is an MMO where the trinity is the center, but parties can have up to 6 players and party-based content is geared for two DPS, one Tank, one Healer, a dedicated Buff factory (potentially same class as healer, but with a different spec), and a dedicated Debuff factory, (potentially a mage class with a different spec or a Rogue with Poisons)
>Or something like that that actually tries to mix it up a bit instead of not mixing it up or mixing it down by taking out Healers and forcing Tank Rotation, like in Blade and Soul

>I guess people feel better about themselves when they have many kills or something,

In an fps or moba, its usually boring as fuck to play a healer

WAR was great. There was a class that had to attack to heal.

Shut up and stay in the back while looking pretty, slut.

Leech healing is always fucking great fun to play.

A good tank makes a group smoothe, in control and basically have a good time for everyone. A bad or a new tank slows everything down or makes something flat out undoable. Whereas if a dps or two fucks up a tank, healer and the remaining dps can edge by and get out and blacklist the dps. if a tank dies, group dies, if a healer dies, the group slowly dies
Guild Wars did the no healer/tank thing and look where they are now
City of Heroes tried to homogenize their classes to the point where all Corrupter teams dominated everything and look where they are now
Basically every MMO that attempted to remove tanks or healers never stood the test of time and are shut down or forgotten about

Rise up, grow out of your DPS phase of your life and be a tank.

Guess who's not getting heals

>not wanting to play your class to its fullest
whats it like being a low energy gamer?

I haven't run into good and useful buff or debuff classes since City of Heroes was killed before its time. Hell, half the time you could do without a dedicated healer if you had both a buffer and a debuffer.

Too bad Dragon Nest is dead because that's what you were looking for.

>it's a 'healer dies 5 seconds into the pull' episode

>TFW 99% of MMO players won't understand the intricacies of spidertanking, EWAR, and angular acceleration-based combat.

>le healer is just a le gay buttslut may may :^)

When did this start? Why? It makes no sense. Is it from some shitty anime or something?

>your class
Right. So I picked a class that heals. A healer. I want to heal, not do damage.

Dealing damage i just healing spelt backwards.

>City of Heroes tried to homogenize their classes to the point where all Corrupter teams dominated everything and look where they are now

Shut down because of

Guild Wars did the no healer/tank thing and look where they are now

>gnilaeh
No it's not, retard.

>having a scrub mentality

>trying to do mental gymnastics to get out of playing your class to its fullest
Please note I am not saying healer.

its to steal the healers thunder. When in reality if you want to run shit you be the healer.

>Grow out of your DPS phase of your life and be a tank
But I was never a DPS, always a Tank or Healer (since Support don't exist.)
I think the only MMO I've ever been anything besides Heal/Tank is Twin Saga, which I'm playing now.

It's because only a MAN can handle the amount of responsibility and pressure it takes to be a tank.

pic related, a non tank looking at a tank in action

Alright. Going by the assumption that every class can dps and support, why would I want to dps when my role in the group is to heal?

>drop in the bucket dps
>do savage content
>suddenly I'm important
>not important enough to edge out dps checks while the other 3 struggle to even do their rotations while also doing basic mechanics

It's amazing how many people commendate me for "being the best dps they've seen in DF" when I'm usually watching TV or talking in another channel while hitting a button every couple of seconds.

Class: healer
I cant remember a time when there was a class whos name was "healer"

I mean I can understand the confusion if you are a warcraft refugee where spike damage and quick big heals was the only way things were done.. I dunno man.

Then what do you do when everyone is topped off? Sit around twiddling your thumbs? Are your tanks that bad?

It's only an expectation because you don't need to heal 24/7 unless you wanna make sure your tank doesn't dip below 95% for whatever reason. You might as well make the dungeon/boss go faster.

Because healing is a submissive role

for people that have played it, what did you think of the original guild wars system of doing things?

it had some classes that at a glance looked like they were assigned certain roles but there was usually a way to make any class fill any role with the amount of skills you could experiment with

would be neat to see something like that again in mmos

...

>I want to be carried, not contribute to the fullest of my ability

The Caduceus has nothing to do with Medicine you dumb faggot, you're looking for the Rod of Asclepius

I see you are still mental gymnasticsing.

You sound like a ninja complaining about using Goad on someone because its a small dps loss.

Not every game has a full arsenal of people who can dps and support, but the games that do have the healer who can also do damage.. do it. Play the class to its fullest instead of wanting to sit back and mash a heal every 10 seconds or so.

Even EverQuest (before your time) has healers dealing damage now on the side.

>there is only the two extremes and nothing in between
>I am also a fucking idiot

>Then what do you do when everyone is topped off?
Group wide damage exists to give healers something to do often enough.

do you see those 200 potency nukes you have?
they're there for a reason
I bet you don't even mitigate damage either

Medics on a battlefield carry a firearm, bad example.

Why does the tank and healer get to have proper names while the one doing damage is named after after a concept? Why not call it an Attacker or some shit?

read

>devs implement brain dead mechanics like unavoidable aoe just to give healers something to do so they feel important

Why do ffxiv fags just assume everyone is talking about ffxiv when mmos are brought up?

Even in Etrian Odyssey the Medic class wrecked shit with a cane
youtube.com/watch?v=x_Id7yg8-Lk

Even in Team Fortress 2 the Medic class wrecked shit with insane melee crits

Well it is a team oriented game. If you don't want mechanics to give healers something to do then you could just remove them and give every class a self heal.

FPBP

Shoulda been /thread here, nothing but buttmad MMO babies genuinely afraid of good change follow. Just because Blizzard ruined WoW for you doesn't mean the system cant change for the better without this inherently boring flowchart system of pulls and hotbar spamming that is quite literally the same in every motherfucking MMO across the board except for maybe 1 or 2 Cooldown timing differences.

inb4
>poopincoffee.jpg

>said everquest
>only talking about
Anyways, if Warcraft ever decides to steal more ideas from XIV, a step in the right direction would be letting resto druids and such also dps

>buttmad MMO babies genuinely afraid of good change
No mmo that got rid of the trinity has ever been good.

>healers
>tanks
>dps
>support/control
eh?eh?eh?
Seriously though if you make small changes to the ways the combat works you could have all kinds of different roles for bosses.

Make it so bosses have different vulnerable parts that you can attack. (the eyes, back of the head, etc) Different character archetypes would reach different parts, ranged would be able to reach up high, melee would have to attack the feet or whatever. add in a melee class that wore light armor and let it climb terrain/certain bosses so it could say climb up the back off a boss and attack its armor straps to expose a vulnerability for the rest of the dps or something.
Think shadow of the collosus where you can actualy climb the bosses.

Add in collision detection for boss attacks. Bosses would shoot projectiles from time to time and the tanks would have to get in he way of them. Maybe a guy playing the traditional tanking class would be dpsing but when the boss starts shooting projectiles he would be able to take out a shield and help mitigate the damage these attacks did. It would be a way to bring "hybrid" to the raids in a way that wasnt just "lel im hybrid which means i can either spec for dps or tank!"

Add in support casters who mostly focus on CCing or buffing allies. Lots o different cool things you could add to the possibilities with a support class where collision detection is in the game.

Imagine a giant wizard boss wearing heavy armor who charged up and shot fireballs out in all directions every so often.
The light armor dps would have a few guys climbing up hm to try and attack the armor straps to permanently lower his armor. the heavy armor dps would be be alternating between dpsing and using collision to off tank adds/projectiles as needed, healers would be healing and shooting minor buffs around, ranged dps would be shooting up into the things face, the support casters would be casting bubbles to reflect spells, using powerful buffs on allies and cc on adds.

>Implying

The trinity arises because specialization is inherently better than having a bunch of multiclassers running around. If you have someone that can leechtank a boss, it's clearly not a very well designed boss. A single person shouldn't be able to sit there and kill a raid boss by himself.

So, if a boss is dangerous enough to demand multiple people, naturally it would be most efficient for one or two people to focus on taking damage effectively, and one person to heal that person, then the rest can deal damage. The trinity 'system' doesn't have to be built into a game, it's the natural response to a dangerous encounter.

There's usually an AoE heal for that.

Also, yeah, why not do damage while they're not doing anything? I can't really see why not.

>Always played Sword since PSO ep1 on dreamcast
>As the series goes on and new games are released, the sword become less and less ineffective
>That horrible feel when playing Sword Hunter main in PSO2

guild wars was great
for those not in the know-how, thousands of skills but you can only ever have 8 on you at a time and only 1 outside of minor exploits can be an elite skill.

every character was a combination of 2 classes, and each class had a main stat only a main of that class can have, so if you play Warrior and take Ranger as your secondary class you will have the Warrior's main stat Strength but you'll never get the Ranger's Expertise stat.

there we're so many ways of doing shit and making some skills on one class work extremely well on another, Rangers at one point played like assassins because their Expertise stat reduced the energy cost of some really good dagger skills that the assassin couldnt use efficiently at full cost.
Assassins became the best tanks in the game because of Shadowform and stance skills.

also happens to be the only mmo with good pvp, truly ahead of it's time.

Which ones did that aren't good that arent just your taste not liking the trinity being gone? GW2 is the only thing ever cited like its peoples crutch everytime these convos come up.

One or two failures does not mean a system cannot work, most changes are just met with unacceptance due to MMO neckbears being afraid of change.

>support/control
This meme died around the time of.. I think when Burning Crusade was transitioning into Wrath of the Lich King.

Even then around that time City of Heroes also gave the literal support/control classes the option for more damage. And its a good thing too, back in EverQuest finding a good bard or enchanter was the hardest part of a group

mah pso niggas

>Bosses would shoot projectiles from time to time and the tanks would have to get in he way of them
FFXIV has this but 90% of the population can't even reach this stage of the fight it's in, let alone execute it.

>Add in support casters who mostly focus on CCing or buffing allies.
A non-core-role-focused job would probably be too confusing for the average MMO player that didn't grow up with WoW or Everquest.

A lot of the problems with MMOs stems from both the core demographic being drooling idiots, and the devs treating them as such.

Gw2 exists and it's ok. Not much content though.

I play a tank cause I like playing dudes in heavy armor, it's trivially easy, and I'm lazy. I often hear people talk about how they don't want the "responsibility" of tanking, but it's hard to fuck up in most MMOs I've seen unless you genuinely don't understand the tank's mechanics and how they gain aggro.

>played a controller in city of heroes
>no newer mmos have a CC or debuff focused archetype thats seperate from dps

>what were fire controllers
>what were illusion controllers
how did you not do damage?

Most if not all MMOs that got rid of the trinity had problems outside of the trinity being missing.

I like playing my spellslinger healer in wildstar.

The only really difficult part of killing a tank is dealing with his healers.

But then I was always a mage so they had zero mitigation against me, and I could CC to stop them from leaving provided healers were dealth with.

If only it wasn't dead.

Even Gravity Controllers had their DoT stacking shinnanananangins

There's a clear issue with this. Healer CAN be fun, if it stratches a certain itch you have.

However, there's this little unavoidable paradox you find yourself in. If you try to play Healer, you can't rely on your DPS to take care of you. And if you play DPS, you can't rely on your healers. And if you play Tanks, well... you're pretty much playing the game by yourself.

>>Slows
>>Stuns
>>DoT
>>"We found that a lot of crowd-control mechanics made people who got hit by them mad, and we don' want anyone to quit so we removed them."

You can make it less dead by playing.

I've already put 500 hours into it

Teach me your long nosed ways, jewpai. How can I make many shekels for minimal effort?

>Why hasn't anyone come up with a better system than the trinity yet?

There was a better system 18 years ago in UO.

High end pve content could be solo'd but it was balanced by the risk of other people robbing you.

For example, animal tamers were the best PvE characters because you could use a dragon to tank and kill everything, but as a downside you had to invest all of your skill into taming, animal lore, veterinary skill to heal the dragon, and you need magic for utility. So yeah you had a big bad dragon, but if a pvp player showed up he wouldn't have much trouble killing YOU and then letting your dragon get swamped by mobs. Also Animal taming was the hardest skill in the game to max.

Bards were very good PvE characters too, and I much preferred them, because you would kill monsters by provoking them to attack eachother. And if someone tried to rob or kill you, you could make every mob in the vicinity attack them. You also had more room for pvp skills to protect yourself.

There was no holy trinity in UO because it was based completely around how good an individual player was, and the risk vs reward of whichever area you went to.

Oh my, a bunch of debuffs and you're low on health. Wouldn't it be such a shame if the little bitch in front of me just dropped dead?

>played ff14 trial as first MMO since fucking around on wow for couple hours at friend's house
>Decide pick tank cause why not
>Get to dungeon content
>You received a player commendation
>You received a player commendation
Either they hand these things out like candy or most tanks suck

Tanks and healers are almost always commendated in ffxiv. They're from other players in your group.

>try running healer
>dungeons take forever because pubs barely know how to play their own classes, even in supposed endgame content

In FFXIV, I've seen fully geared Black Mages in 3.X dungeons still using Transpose to switch stances instead of the attack that automatically puts them in the highest level of said stance. I've seen melee DPS that don't know what positionals are and effectively handicapping themselves at only doing 75% of their damage, at best.

I play DPS because I can't be bothered watching other people suck at the most basic function of the game. I play DPS so the healer and tank don't have to suffer two idiots constantly fucking up.

Sluts who fail at their job get severe punishment.

>play dps
>you healer sucks
>play healer
>your dps sucks
>play tank
>your dps and healer sucks

I remember being hot shit because I manage to tame a Nightmare with my full dexxer build that had almost no taming. All the other non-tamer plebs had to stick to their horses and llamas.

They get handed out like candy, especially on tuesdays, and tanks are selected by default unless you play a tank in which case the healer is the default
The only time they mean anything is if you get them as a dps

The problem is twofold:

1) the idea of "classes"

2) The focus on combat

havent played since before the expansion and jesus fucking christ levelling the tanks was fucking easy because dungeon queues we're instant and half the time your given a group stuck on the last boss because their shitlord of a tank left you swoop in save the day get all that delicious exp and swim in commendations.

i really didnt get it either tanking in 14 was fucking easy as shit

Stains on the floor cannot speak, user.
Maybe next time you don't insult your healer and you won't end up a bloody smear on some orc nigger's club.

What I don't like about MMOs is that there's barely any skill required, it's all about how good your gear is. I agree that the holy trinity is important, but as long as the tank has some good damage reducing abilities and know's his button rotation, in combination with a decent healer, everything is so fucking easy, if you're having a hard time it's down to gear and gear alone. Raid mechanics just come down to knowing the battles, not being skilled enough to pull it off.

MMOs are trash, yet I can't stop playing them.

When thinking about it, what games actually require skill? Fighting games for sure, platformers I guess, some online shooters, RTS too.

Overwatch actually got zenyatta right. He does good damage and his ult requires awareness.

>played tank thru all the "hardest" content.
>Rotation of 3 mechanics for tanks
>Tank swap cause some stack that will kill you.
>Tanks soak damage together from some cleave.
>Tanks have to grab adds during a bossfight and position.
Use this as a grab bag for every boss in that game and you'll have the all mechanics covered.

>hurr durr I'll prove my superiority and let the tank die
>oh no the tank died and the boss is looking at me, someone save me

Most people commend tanks and healers because they think they're harder jobs to play. The dps could be parsing 99th percentile, but no one will know unless it's an experienced group or someone with a 3rd party parser. There's also the fact that the default party sorting option is Tank > Healer > DPS, and some people just click on whoever is at the top of the list when they leave.

I make it a point to scrutinize a DPS, if they're a class I know how to play. If they at least show some semblance of understanding of their role, I'll usually commend them.

I mainspec tank but my guild already has two main tanks. I dislike healing PvE content as it's not really engaging compared to DPS.

Most of the healers perform better when they're insulted and abused. The other types like you are easily replaceable. Healer is the easiest class, after all, and you sluts are a diamond dozen.

Wow, so just like Monster Hunter, one of the most popular series in the world?

Because WoW and XIV are some of the only relevant MMOs and thus easily relateable in a comparison. There are very few MMOs I can think of where the healer has NO time to contribute DPS.

Because it's the least fun. You basically just stand there and absorb damage.

Healers save people, DPS kills shit, you just are there.

>The trinity arises because specialization is inherently better than having a bunch of multiclassers running around.

Really don't understand why modern mmos have a problem with this. There should be NO fucking overlap between roles unless the combo role is heavily weakened.
-Tanks should be beefcakes designed to survive, skills to hold agro, and various save the group skills.
-Healers should be the only ones that can heal obviously. Mechanics can be added to make managing and using your heals more engaging than healbotting.
-DPS should be glass fucking canons. There can be some squishier than others but they shouldn't get any healing or crowd control.
-And finally Support. These guys get all the crowd control and various bard style buffs.

You don't have to reinvent the wheel. Just take the base and try to focus on making each interesting to play

I remember one time I was in a warring guild and my tamer friend would always scare people off with his dragons, we'd fucking ruin people all the time because I'd peel for him while his dragon tore shit up.

>Crowd control class is essentially a tank.
>Buff/debuff is essentially a healer.

Retarded.

Yeah, the old trinity. Which had Support instead of DPS in it. You needed one of each to do anything, and rest was deeps.
But that was too complex to understand.

>it's all about how good your gear is
Come play wildstar and watch top end raid geared players die on the final boss in a dungeon.

>When the healer doesn't DPS
>He just stands there doing nothing or jumping for 10 seconds because im taking little damage

Except in Monster Hunter you fight 2 monsters at most, while in MMO most of the time you're fighting a group of monsters.

>diamond dozen

Fuck WS dungeons were great. I still remember the elation of getting passed Vet Skullcano with the /vg/ guild.

There was that awful Dungeons and Dragons free MMO.

None of the bosses were dangerous but they all had crazy shit like infinite respawning adds that could wipe everyone out in seconds.

So you always needed that one control mage guy to kite everything around the entire fight.

>tfw you let the group take a little extra damage before you heal them.

What's stopping the party from replacing you with a literal healbot?

Unless you're willing to service us under the table, you sound useless.

>have to face boss away from 7 other people
>while moving him across an arena to a designated point to ensure maximum efficiency at avoiding an upcoming mechanic that confuses anyone facing either the boss or the designed point in the arena, removing them from the fight for 10 seconds at a minimum
>while avoiding ice balls that give dots
>while avoiding the expanding conal aoe that stuns for 5 seconds as well as gives dots
>while making sure I don't cleave any of the 7 people in the arena with the boss' attacks as I avoid said mechanics and reposition
>all the dps and healers have to do is not stand in the glowing death circles and make sure at least 4 of them activate a tower simply by stepping in it when the timer goes off, or else everyone gets a negligible paralysis debuff that can be removed with a cheap potion

>tfw WHTmage in FF14
>Dps is shit
>Cleric Stance
>Spam Holy
>dont need to heal because mobs are stunned to fuck
>exit stance
>top up tank with some regen
>back into stance

One thing I liked about FFXIV. The dungeons were so fucking easy that when the healer tried to pull that you could just switch over to DPS stance and force them to pay attention.

What's stopping the party from replacing the tank with a tankbot? Or the dps with a dpsbot?

mah nigga

Doing comparable damage to DPS as a scholar in cleric stance is the best feeling.

>One thing I liked about FFXIV. The dungeons were so fucking easy

Two boss monsters, and some of them summon small ones. And each zone has some small mobs of its own, of varying annoyance.

>MMO where you build and train little AI robots to fight for you

mite b cool

>literally playing a game in another tab while healing
>check back every few seconds and throw a heal or regen on the tank

I'm watching my overheals, dog

That's not a bad idea. I wish people can just replace DPS with DPSbots to be honest.

Not even a dig at DPS, it's just significantly more efficient that way.

>Thinking your spec is anything other than a semi-glorified punching bag that dps laugh at

go play skyforge. it works really well

I play FFXIV, so the way to make cash with minimal effort is to isolate resources commonly used by crafters and gather those up for sale, like ores and such. You won't make as much money as the people selling the finished product but it also takes much less of a time and effort investment.

>AC scratch ball gag

>go play skyforge
Not while the monk class is locked behind weeks of grinding.

I had a similar thing with my guild. They only wanted ranged dps and healers and I can't stand being a ranged.

Dragon's Dogma has that sense of training AI companions but it's single player.
Guild Wars 1 has AI Heroes that you can control/kit out and are extremely efficient at pretty much everything because the AI was amazing.

I didn't say it was good. I just enjoyed making lazy healers do something. In any other game it would be suicide dropping your tank stance in endgame dungeons.

This is why I play DCUO. They have those roles (plus controller who provides energy for powers), but they have failsafes so that you can run a raid without them. Plus, everyone is a DPS with 1 alternate role (Controller, Healer, or Tank).

As a healer in FFXIV you probably have more leverage over how quick a normal dungeon run goes because you can absolutely assure your role is actually going to DPS instead of stand around with a thumb up their ass and throw out cures as soon as the tank gets a paper cut.

I love being a trash nuke.

raid healing is movie night

mythic+ dungeons are engaging for healers after 3 so there's some fun to be had there

I used to play that as a bard, one song would put all the extra enemies to sleep
Loved how much utility that class had if you built it right

The problem with Tank/Healer meta only applies to tab-targetted games.
In games where attacks have to connect to deal damage, you have much more freedom. You can run full DPS party but need to play carefully, so the end result is balanced out.

You say that, but you know it's not reality. The majority of playerbases automatically expect tanks to be knowledgeable/leaders. It's well established that more alpha types play tanks.

Passive bitchboys and submissive women play healer. Teenagers and edgelords play DPS.

MMO where we send and recruit AI by roles to their deaths. We watch what they're farming for, see their guild drama, maybe even talk to them.

The real game is us playing Reccetear.

3-4 Jaggis are nothing compared to regular mobs in MMO, though.

>I'll make myself sound more important than I am by listing individual ages that are also telegraphed with a big orange indicator and pretend cones can't be dodged by literally walking into the boss since they have no collision

Yeah because Jaggis don't beeline to you and spam attacks every second.

MMO require a lot of people and a large portion of those people will always be stupid as fuck both because they're not used to being challenged and because they're unwilling to put in any effort. Basically most mmo cant survive on a niche audience.
Most people assert that you need everyone on ts in order to complete triple trouble in gw2, if you've ever done that fight you'll see how ridiculous that is.

While jaggies don't attack instantly or bee line they do something much more impactful.

Hitstun.

There's really zero threat to getting hit in modern MMOs other than "your lifebar goes down"

>Chilling around
>Suddenly a mage pk turns his invisibility off and casts paralyze
Oh man the memories, modern MMOs suck because of PVP restrictions.

Literally not a problem considering they all hit like wet tissues and fly away as soon as they're smacked with anything.

If you wanted to mention annoying enemies you should have said Bullfango and Rhenoplos.

Jaggies can't break through hyper armour.

not saying mmos are harder than monhun but do people really have trouble with jaggies? they're moves are so choreographed and they're knocked back super easy

What MMO should I play if I'm completely new to them? I'd prefer something without a subscription.

They lead cause they have nothing else to do in fights. So it's just defaulted cause their spec is brainless to play.

Play wildstar. pls

I play healer because so many healers are trash
if people are shit in farms they get the boot

You should start with the oldies.

kronos-wow.com/

or

project1999.com/

vindictus so that you discover early that all mmos are shit

you can easily make enough money to pay for a sub with gold in wow.

>thread didn't devolve into lewd healer shitposting

baka desu senpai

yeah how dare an actual discussion happens.

I don't play tanks because I'm always scared I'll fuck up and everyone will hate me
but it's okay because I only very occasionally get the urge to play an MMO

...

Because tanks are rather boring to play generally. Typically it's "Use aggro skill, occasionally time defensive skill" with poking the enemy in between.
If mechanics were more dynamic and fights required more than that, more people might play tank.

GW1 had the best trinity. Control, damage, support.

Fuck right off with that cancer.

>never be able to play BiP/Orders necro ever again

Everyone always scoffed at my N/Mo BiP building running mending and succor, but that allowed me to have a constant uninterruptible stream of health and extra mana for the monk so they were all over my dick when I put succor on them.

Literally easiest jobs.

Play casual.

Fuck devoting time into actually raiding on curve. I did that in wow for nearly eight years, and all it got me were some feats of strength, a couple of rare mounts and a lack of sleep.

I'll do everything when the next tier comes out with a pack of casual pugs, and do mythic+ with friends when I feel like being hardcore.

I haven't burnt out all the content the game has within a month, and I'm actually enjoying the time I'm spending while playing for the first time in three expansions.

>Playing Monk
>Boss aggros me
>Use Touch of Karma

>enemy looks in your direction
>die
>absolutely no way for you to use player skill to outwit your enemy

Sounds like you're playing a shit game

Don't go to ship 2 unless you like memes. Ship 4 has the smaller english community, but isn't quite as obnoxious.

play some project 99

Seriously, GW1 had such good potential.
So many combinations and play styles that all got thrown out the window with GW2.

Vindictus is an okay non-sub
Runescape (Old School) is neat even if you're f2p, but there's such a big difference between p2p and f2p that f2p is like a glorified demo. I guess the benefit here is after months of playing you'll easily be able to pay the subscription with ingame currency.
PSO2 is pretty fun f2p, but unless you have decent luck you'll be pretty poor without the ability to sell items.
If you end up deciding to pay a sub and OSRS isn't your thing then FFXIV might be worth checking out. I think you get a 14 day free trial when you sign up, and 30 days when you buy the game. At least I did with my physical cop, which I'd recommend since for whatever reason physical is half the price.

You couldn't call that a role in PSO though. There was no tank, no enmity/aggro to manage.

Just have a FO to Buff/Debuff/Resta and stuck lock fucking Zu with Gifoie, and 3 other whatever RA/HU who destroys everything. Late game you'd spend more time running from the beginning to the end of a map than actually killing monsters.

>Sohr Kai DF
>play a nasty BLM
>paired with another BLM
>they actually know what they're doing
>we're constantly playing tag with mobs while the tank tries to retake aggro
>final boss
>I have aggro around my 5th Fire IV
>tank tries to take it back and gets caught in the green dive shit and dies
>early enough to wipe and retry
>see Eye for an Eye buff on me
>"fuck it lets do it"
>pop Manaward and continue fighting
>Ward runs out, pop Quelling and E4E on the other BLM
>they take over while I DPS
>healer is on point and keeping us topped off, lowest either of us got was like 40%
>we finish the Duty
>I comm the tank

wow pvp is not based on this at all though, its deathmatches in arena

Tanking is just DPSing without the damage 95% of the time.

Sometimes the devs remember that it's a role and throw in some mechanics that you have to do as the tank, such as popping damage cooldowns to eat a tank buster.

So, are there any MMOs where I can play a longbow wielding, single-target machinegun? No casting variations of "Arrow", no Rain of Arrows/Volley stuff. Just me, my bow, and a myriad of buffs that's all about unleashing a constant stream of damage on a single target, witht he occassional special arrows?

Closest I got was Tree of Savior, and just speccing into the passives/arrows.

>never stood the test of time
No MMO in the past decade stood the "test of time". They're ALL bleeding players past their launch period, no exception. No MMO has been steadily growing after their first year of release. And don't serve me bullshit PR numbers about how many accounts are created, that number can only grow with time. Active users do not however.

Name me AAA MMOs released in the past decade which opened a significant amount of new servers (only way to tell that the population is drastically increasing) after their first year of release. Guess what? There are just none. And don't use ARR an example. Yes population grew between 1.0 and ARR, but that's a special case of a complete relaunch. If you take ARR on its own population hasn't been growing (i.e no new servers opened and filled) 12 months after release. Same for... every MMO out there.

The cycle is always the same. Game gets overhyped during beta phases > launch, people are raving about it > 3 months after everyone leaves > new xpac / massive update comes, some people return but less than initially > DAU/MAU keeps dwindling.

Dragon Nest Warden or Sniper

>tfw do more DPS than the DPSes as a healer

>tfw everybody starts complimenting your heals and tells you how much your clutch play saved the game

>tfw tank can't keep aggro

YES.

This is why I medic. No man left behind.

>tfw you main healer but hate the healslut meme

>be me
>get killed by para gankers all the time
>find out about bombags and the mechanics behind different weapon skills
>every time a paraganking mage popped out I would bomb bag the paralyze and drain his stam with a q-staff, and proceed to beat his ass to death
>one mage gets desperate and starts summoning and eating food to restore his healtth
>mfw

D-doushio

So don't play a slut race.

A class is now a race?

I doubt he's playing Au Ra.

This.

>Race locked classes
It's the current year, get with the times.

>thinking I play the game you're thinking of

Not too fond of the healslut meme as a healer myself, but it's mostly because I want everyone to be my slut instead.

I'm so sorry, friend

I main healer and love the healslut meme

I don't have that pic but there was a literal heal slut who got aids out something on /vg/.

Bug chaser tracer, I'm aware of him

He gives even the sluttiest of healsluts a bad name
Calling anyone a faggot is super hypocritical of me, but that's degeneracy if I ever saw it