MGS2:

MGS1 and 4 are the best so it doesn't matter what you think.

>He grasps for meaning where there is none
Wew, that's pretty fucking retarded user

MGS2 is my favorite without a doubt, but I hate how it took Konami until MGS3 Subsistence to add in a free camera control. Some of the camera angles in 2 made it very difficult, especially the parcel room in the higher difficulties.

Oh obviously it isn't significant that Raiden is unable to do anything against his first boss fight.
Couldn't possibly reinforce the narrative at all.

MGS1 blows both of them out of the water.

>>Incredibly powerful and significant story/themes
that get thrown out at Arsenal Gear

>Responsive gameplay that perfectly adds to the original
marred by the bad level design of big shell

>Has actual meaning in the universe
gets completely shat on by 4.

>MGS3
>Has little to no meaning in the series
except for Peace Walker, Ground Zeroes, Phantom Pain, and the rest of the damn series

BTFO

>MGS2
>Has actual meaning in the universe

>MGS3
>Has little to no meaning in the series

a large chunk of MGS2 was retconned in 4; none of 3 was.

isn't Fatman the first boss you fight as that whiner?

>a large chunk of MGS2 was retconned in 4
?

No, you meet fortune after you disable the bomb down in the strut you started in, iirc

>MGS3:
>>Completely vapid and meaningless story
>>Has little to no meaning in the series

It threw the main monologue at the end of MGS2 out the window and destroyed any theories of MGS2 being VR.

I say that shitting on the last act of MGS2 counts as throwing it out the window.

you might be right, it's been a while since I played MGS2

this shows in a nutshell the minds of mgs3 lovers.

yes, mgs3 is 'bigger' in the metal gear solid series itself. mgs3 adds context to mgs1, mgs2, and is a core foundation to mgs4 and mgs5's story and world.

thats great.

except mgs2 is a 'bigger' and more important game in the world of video games itself. as in not just metal gear, but all video games. it is dynamic beautiful game that manages to excel in almost every field a game can excel in, while simultaneously challenging what it means to be a video game.

mgs3 is a good metal gear solid game. mgs2 is a master piece within the ranks of the greatest games of all time.

>except mgs2 is a 'bigger' and more important game in the world of video games itself. as in not just metal gear, but all video games. it is dynamic beautiful game that manages to excel in almost every field a game can excel in, while simultaneously challenging what it means to be a video game.

and this shows the elitist minds of MGS2 lovers

>while simultaneously challenging what it means to be a video game.
Jesus christ MGS2fags are pretentious.
It's just a stealth videogame with a whacky story retard

MGS1 was the best of the series.
>Best protagonist
>best music
>best antagonist
>best bosses
>best boss fights
>solid story
MVS2 story was convoluted as fuck. Raiden and Rose were both horrible especially together and dragged the game down. Bosses were lame. Not a single memorable boss fight.
Music was also forgettable.

The End boss fight was better then anything in 2.

>Muh meme bossfight

He's not wrong.

>Calls something a meme to shit on it
>While the theme of MGS2 was meme

MGS2
>doesn't have green environments
MGS3
>has green environments

3 is objectively better

prove it

yeah parcel room was a bit much

I don't think that really matters, them being fan theories and all.

faggot there was nothing to Fortune.

MGS3 is objectively better, and the multiple ways to kill The End in MGS3 is ten times better.

Try reading anything about MGS2 written about or by Kojima.

I have, I am not seeing the deep bullshit the fanbase claims

But user, it challenges what it means to be a videogame.
Kojima is a genius beyond comprehension.

Yes. Fortune can't even be called a boss since you can't even beat her. Might as well have just been another cutscene.

then why make it a fight to begin with?

Well it's not a fight because you can't win it. All you can do is hide and watch. It's really pointless.

relax baby, you can acknowledge that 3 is still pretty good even though 2 is far superior

Funny, because MGS3 implimented far more to the series coming from 2 than 2 did coming from 1. Not only that, but 3 is built as an overall better stealth game with multiple ways you can interact with the world around you that MGS2 simply lacks on all fronts.

MGS2 is only decent for it's narrative and smooth gameplay, but the gamepay itself is rather lacking beyond that. Even with less to work with , MGS1 ended up being a suprior game to it in a lot of ways due to level design and item functionality.

MGS2 isn't a bad game, but it is a perfect example of people prioritizing story over gameplay, because MGS2, from an overall perspective, is the worst of the original three Solid games when it comes to gameplay structure.

>Literally sitting behind a box as she chimps out with a rail gun is suppose to be some form of complex metaphor of some kind

I'm convinced MGS2fags are literally trying to pull pranks at this point, because no one can be this retarded.

>MGS2 isn't a bad game, but it is a perfect example of people prioritizing story over gameplay

and it's not even a good story

MGS was never good.

>worst and most casual stealth series ever made
>written by a hack with the mentality of a teenager
>themes are a bunch of conspiracy nonsense and/or pseudo-intellectual post-mo crap
>90% of all characters are wacky insane idiots with completely flat personalities
>gameplay becomes more broken with each new installment
>lots of shitty boss battles despite that they're supposed to be stealth games

>whiner

Might as well call him names at this point.

The whole purpose and plot of MGS2 would collapse if it was all VR. Protip: it isn't.

>Might as well call him names at this point.
He was a whiner in MGS2

>The whole purpose and plot of MGS2 would collapse if it was all VR. Protip: it isn't.

then why did the MGS2 fanbase cling to that theory before MGS4 shattered it?

>He was a whiner in MGS2

No he wasn't, just a little scared after Fortune's first encounter (who the fuck wouldn't be, considering it was not part of the simulation), then he never ever "whined" again. It's a stale meme.

>then why did the MGS2 fanbase cling to that theory before MGS4 shattered it

MGS4 couldn't shatter what wasn't there to begin with. As for the MGS2 fanbase, I don't know. The theme of the game is coming up with your own conclusion, if they chose the easily debatable VR route, good for them.

>considering it was not part of the simulation

but didn't the Patriots orchestrate everything but Snake?

Raiden's VR simulation for the mission, not the Patriots exercise, of course. Raiden was always kept unaware of the details. Pliskin told him more about Dead Cell that the Colonel ever did.

>Raiden's VR simulation for the mission

except says that MGS2 was not a VR simulation

I meant Raiden's TRAINING for the Big Shell operation, this includes various VR missions, and simulations such as Shadow Moses and Tanker.

MGS2:
>The worst level design in the entire series
>Big Shell is a joke thematically and layout-wise
>Worst/fewest boss fights in the series
>Worst terrorist group in the series
>Game is filled with bland cardboard cut out characters just for exposition and narrative
>Most of the game is an easter egg hunt + escort mission
>Some elements are a literal rehash from MGS1 just because the Patriots wanted to recreate a better game
>Have to listen to Rose compare defusing bombs to relationships and other tripe
>Game is just a boring slog in general

But oh man, that narrative and the payoff in the last segment of the game TOTALLY makes the mediocrity worth it, right? Clearly, if you think MGS2 is bad, you're just not intellectual enough to "get it".

I think 3 is a lot more memorable to me. I guess that's because I never had a PS2 on release and never got to play it when it was seen as a big fucking deal. MGS2 was the same, except I found myself more frustrated with it than I ever was with the first MGS. Maybe that was part of the meme people always bring up. 3 at least was able to captivate me a lot better even if it had some serious flaws.

>worst/fewest boss fights in the series
lol

Fatman was a travesty, deal with it nerd.

He effectively EXTENDED his trivial easter egg hunt and incorporated it into fighting him. I sure do love getting on my stomach to spray a bomb with Aussie while a fat rollerblading man skates around laughing as if he's a genius for wasting my time.

3 had the best level design and mechanics, and the best boss fight in the whole series.

Its plot wasn't up its own ass.

It's tech was actually more interesting because the vast majority of it was based on real-life cold-war shit yes, really.

>Worst/fewest boss fights in the series
V basically has two, maybe three if you want to be generous. And they suck.
>Some elements are a literal rehash from MGS1 just because the Patriots wanted to recreate a better game
That's literally the whole point

>V basically has two, maybe three if you want to be generous. And they suck.

I don't count any of the games after MGS4 because I ended up hating them all. I try to keep criticisms confined to the first four games.

>That's literally the whole point
Yeah, I know, but the "it's supposed to be bad" argument doesn't make for a fun or interesting game. I mean sure it gets interesting when you have all of that dumped on you by the end, but the actual game leading up to it cradles the narrative so much and is so boring, that I'd rather watch the cutscenes/codecs on youtube than play the game again.

3 is utter trash and a cuck level apology by Kojimbo because faggots were too dumb to understand anything outside of MUH JAYMES BAWND. Everything after 2 has been horseshit and basically proof that Kojima is nothing without the writers of MGS1 and 2.

Too much Big Shell.
>No Raiden you are in the Metal Gear
MGS3 is objectively better because the gameplay is more survival based

>were too dumb to understand anything outside of MUH JAYMES BAWND.

blame the poor writing of MGS2

>awkward camera angles

It's fine if you don't get it dude.

>HURR DURR DA BOSS
This is literally the start of the downward spiral of the series.
>BUH BUH BUH SHE CAN DISASSEMBLE A GUN HOW BADASS
Wow, I'm impressed, she can take a handgun apart, meanwhile other characters can shoot bees out of their mouth and lightning out of their hands, but she's important because she knows beginner level Jujitsu and she had a baby one time. How impressive.

Fortune "fight" is fun though, and it's over quickly

Can we admit that 2 and 3 were different games, each excelling in very different aspects, thus attracting different fans who have different expectations of what a metal gear game should be?

You can't fall back on that every time your precious game is called out for its flaws.

Yeah, I get it, at this point basically everyone who bothers to draw parallels at all understands what the game is trying to say. The concepts aren't that hidden or deep, and it's pretentious to think that only some sort of intellectual elite can appreciate MGS2. Bioshock Infinite fans did the same thing and were ripped apart for their delirium, this should be no different.

The difference between MGS2 and Bioshock Infishit is very clear though. MGS2 is a very clear interpretation of a possible future by someone who knew what they were talking about while Infinite was pretentious bullshit. MGS3 is just braindead bullshit that ruined the story of the series by boiling it down to every characters motivations being MUH MOMMY JUJITSU LADY.

MGS2's boss fights really gain in fun from being played at the higher difficulties.

>MGS3 is just braindead bullshit that ruined the story of the series by boiling it down to every characters motivations being MUH MOMMY JUJITSU LADY.

Metal Gear Solid 4 ruining the overall narrative of the series to appease idiots who didn't understand MGS2 doesn't retroactively make MGS3's story bad, you fucking retard

every fucking Metal Gear game since MGS1 serves as a pretty complete ending to the series, if you don't like later games, you can fucking headcanon retcon them out of existence if you like.

laugh and grow FAT

>idiots who didn't understand MGS2

blame the bad writing of MGS2

MGS2 has a solid narrative, whatever, we've established that but what about the GAME and its GAMEPLAY is ever gonna make me want to return to it? I've listed here why MGS2 fails as a game because every facet of it is shoddily constructed around the message and that makes it a one-trick pony. Meanwhile I can play MGS3 over and over again because it offers me a lot more gameplay variety and if the series needed to go back to having a tongue-in-cheek action hero story to become fun again, then I won't dispute it.

You can dislike certain game mechanics, brings up plenty of valid points, but its narrative is pretty fucking coherent and consistent, you just didn't understand it so you claim "bad writing" rather than admit you're a retard

MGS2 was the most difficult in the series hands down. I watched a speed run for it and was blown away.

MGS3s story makes no fucking sense and is borderline retarded shit. The fact that a giant guy who shoots fucking lightning out of his fists is afraid of a 5'2'' woman whose only combat abilities are shit you learn at your first martial arts class alone discredits the whole shitshow. Kojima is a hack who is nothing without Fukushima taking over the majority of the writing duties.

This is so dumb. It's frustrating that we've gotten to a point where having literary themes and objectives becomes "deep bullshit." Deep itself has become a dirty word, and anyone who suggests something as complex must be a pretentious fuckwad who's simply over interpreting things.

It's lame. It just ruins any chances of actual discussion that isn't surface level.

>inb4 someone cites that shitty Agness Kaku interview.

MGS3s gameplay is dogshit though. It's basically a slowed down, dumbed down version of the previous games. Instead of an arcadey stealth game we get a retarded version of a Splinter Cell game where half the gameplay boils down to clicking through menus.

>but its narrative is pretty fucking coherent and consistent

until it shits the bed at Arsenal Gear

>Deep itself has become a dirty word
because of people like the MGS2 fanbase abusing it.

Yeah, it's fucking bullshit that you defeated Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven in MGS1, they had superpowers!

>le fukushima meme

didn't he co-write MGS3?

>Arsenal Gear

What happens at Arsenal Gear?

>The fact that a giant guy who shoots fucking lightning out of his fists is afraid of a 5'2'' woman whose only combat abilities are shit you learn at your first martial arts class alone discredits the whole shitshow.

And yet no one complains when Snake is able to beat all the crazy bosses in the series.

>until it shits the bed at Arsenal Gear
>I'm a retard
>I'm the same kid who complained about having to analyze literature in english class

>Kojima is a hack who is nothing without Fukushima taking over the majority of the writing duties.
Quit it with this shitty meme already.
>didn't he co-write MGS3?
He only wrote the codec stuff, as pic related shows.

Sorry but nah. Camo index, the AI, the interactive features such as the radios/storehouses, the weapons, the bosses, the atmosphere, the NG+ unlocks, the boss camos and weapons, everything about MGS3 gameplay is top-notch and MGS2 had barely any of it.

Menu-hopping is probably the only conceivable negative aspect that comes into play, everything else is a stark improvement.

Solid Snake isn't a 110lb woman who can barely even lift a m16 dumbass.
>didn't he co-write MGS3?
Yes, he did. He was relegated to writing shit like combat dialouge mainly though. Kojimbo was in charge of most of the writing hence why it's so shit.

>What happens at Arsenal Gear?

everything goes to hell and the game just stops giving a fuck about everything. I mean things were finally getting decent but then the train the story was riding just wrecked so badly.

Snake is a fucking super soldier not a 50 year old woman faggot.

>shits the bed at arsenal gear

You meant to say it gets amazing at arsenal gear, right?

>what's wrong with it?
>it's bad

Okay.

No. It shits the bed and every time I think about replaying MGS2 that part going full retard, Raiden being shit, and MGS4 fixing everything turn me away

the game goes to hell, how is it not bad?

>Camo index
Wow I sure do love having to go into the menu every 5 seconds
>AI
Yeah, the AI sure is better, to the point where the original version of the game is borderline unplayable
>Bosses
The Fear, The End, The Fury, and The Sorrow are all shit. The only decent one in the entire fucking game is Ocelot.
>atmosphere
Climbing a ladder and sitting in a bush while doing nothing isn't fun

>the game goes to hell, how is it not bad?

I didn't see no lava there. Perhaps your brain can elaborate a much more compelling and detailed argument?

>MGS4 fixing everything

Newsflash, MGS4 retconned Arsenal Gear. Really made me think.

Reminder that 3's story was a complete downgrade

>Wow I sure do love having to go into the menu every 5 seconds

Really not necessary, Tiger Stripe gives you 75%+ camo in nearly all environments

>The Fear, The End, The Fury, and The Sorrow are all shit. The only decent one in the entire fucking game is Ocelot.

The End and the Fury are great fucking bosses you tripple nigger, literally kill yourself

>it's okay when a physically 70 year old man does it

>5'2''
Wew lad, you seem to have lost your sense of scale. I suggest going outside some time.

So now I find myself replaying mgs4 on the boss hard mode, is it possible?

>MGS4 retconned Arsenal Gear.

in a good way. Plus MGS4 made Raiden not shit.

>Perhaps your brain can elaborate a much more compelling and detailed argument?
How clearer can I get? The game stopped caring about it's story.It's like they suddenly changed writers at that point and felt like a completely different game.

for fuck's sake Danganronpa 2 does something similar but it's better executed because it doesn't start randomly trying to teach you philosophy or whatever the fuck AI Roy was trying to speak to you about,

>Reminder that 3's story was a complete downgrade
and yet better than the BS MGS2 tried to feed people.

>The menu argument again
>Talking trash about The Fear, The End, The Fury and The Sorry as if any MGS2 boss even comes close to them
>Oh well clearly the whole game is just bushes and muh ladder, yeah that's it

What did he mean by this?

>Incredibly powerful and significant story/themes
More like information control theme overplayed by kojimadrones.

>Really not necessary, Tiger Stripe gives you 75%+ camo in nearly all environments
So in other words the whole system is unnecessary bullshit as shown by MGS4 completely ditching it.
>The end
Equip the thermal goggles. Oh look you've won
>The Fury
Oh man run in a circle and shoot at a bullet sponge who only continues to prove how boring the Boss who gets her dick sucked by everyone is, how exciting.
Fuck off faggot.

All MGS:
>almost all story
>crappy, clumsy "gameplay"
MGS should have been a series of movies.

>because of people like the MGS2 fanbase abusing it.

No it's not. It's due to people like you who feel the need to cheapen every discussion that comes off as intellectual. You resent the idea of there being something to analyze.

2 has more content

MGS3
>crawl for hours on end through boring bullshit that just makes you wish you were playing a Splinter Cell game
No thanks.

>MGS2 fag deflecting

why? Just because of the VR extra content?

>in a good way.

I was ironic, not ever MGS4 retcons the events in MGS2.

>The game stopped caring about it's story

No it didn't, tons of explanation dumping done by Ocelot. Yeah okay Fortune got supernatural powers, are you surprised?

>it doesn't start randomly trying to teach you philosophy or whatever the fuck AI Roy was trying to speak to you about,
>teach you philosophy
>AI Roy

I genuinely think it was too much for you, but you said you like MGS4, which is all kinds of needlessly complex, so... you're probably just hating out of spite or had a bad first experience with the game.

And Snake Tales.

Are you going to tell me that dosent count?

Not that guy but thought MGS4 was a pretty good continuation of where MGS2 left off, it just got bogged down with bullshit that started in MGS3, and also the game overexplained things WAY too much. There are times where they literally explain the same concept 3 different ways and it just eats up the time.

But a ton of its quirks could only come from the interactive aspects of its gameplay.

You're not even wrong that they're a bit.

>but you said you like MGS4,

I only like MGS4 because it makes sense of the mess known as MGS2 and makes Raiden better than the whiny bitch he was in 2

>or had a bad first experience with the game.
I played it and I really didn't care for it. It's hard to get into a game where the main character is unlikable (and the previous main character is reduced to a NPC), the story going off the rails near the end, and a level design that forces a lot of backtracking.

>There are times where they literally explain the same concept 3 different ways and it just eats up the time.
true.

>I only like MGS4 because it makes sense of the mess known as MGS2 and makes Raiden better than the whiny bitch he was in 2
You sound like the same kind of faggots who whines about FLCL or Shinji in Evangelion.

MGS2 isnt a mess and Raiden was never really whiny

I despise MGS2 but I'd have to side with MGS2 babbies and assume you didn't quite get the narrative of the game if you think the story went off the rails.

Everything in the game was pointing towards the exposition dump at Arsenal Gear and beyond, and that's WHY it's a lackluster game imo: because all of the focus was there and everything else suffered for it and the game became boring.

>It's hard to get into a game where the main character is unlikable

Why is he unlikable? Be as cryptic as you usually are, I feel like clicking store fronts.

>whiny bitch he was in 2

see >(and the previous main character is reduced to a NPC)

Oh of course, you've been Kojima'd. This explains everything.

>the story going off the rails near the end

It's not, you cannot provide any good reasons why it goes off the rails, I win the argument.

>and a level design that forces a lot of backtracking.

You mean circle tracking.

>quirks
In other words, pain in the ass bad gameplay. Better to remove it completely than have it be "quirky".

There's pretty compelling evidence that the Raiden chapter may actually have been a VR simulator.

>Rose existence
>AI going batshit crazy
>All sort of supernatural powers
>Raiden not doing a real mission, ever
>Raiden has played MGS1 as VR, thus it may be that we are playing MGS2 as VR as well
>the Game Over screen
>the little tiles on thew floor in the last act

Could be more but it's been a while since I played the game. Ultimately it's left ambigous.

Psycho Mantis is still by far the most supernatual part of MGS, and he wasnt VR

Mgs1 =God
Mgs2=Jesus
Mgs3=Satan
Mgs4=Best

I have never seen all of FLCL

as for Shinji, it's the same thing with Raiden. Whiny in the source material, better in the sequels and really good in side story stuff (in this case SRW where he calls out Kira Yamato on his whiny mode in Alpha 3)

>MGS2 isnt a mess
Arsenal Gear proves you wrong

the whole Roy AI and Rose AI glitching the fuck out was and Raiden being butt naked were the signs that this game was going off the rails

>Oh of course, you've been Kojima'd. This explains everything.
using the "MUH SNAKE" strawman
and that discredits your entire post

>There's pretty compelling evidence that the Raiden chapter may actually have been a VR simulator.
except MGS4 proves it's not VR.

this has to be bait

They all shit. First game was OK all games that followed was utter shit.

>Arsenal Gear proves you wrong

No it dosent. AG is only the fulfillment of everything MGS2 was building up to the point. Just because you got a little confused by the Colonel dosent mean shit.

>AG is only the fulfillment of everything MGS2 was building up to the point

what fulfillment? That I am playing a sub-par sequel?

>Just because you got a little confused by the Colonel dosent mean shit.
how can I get confused at an AI Glitching out?

>Rose existence

Why wouldn't she exist? She's even pregnant.

>AI going batshit crazy

Computer viruses do that. Did you just skip through all the cutscenes?

>All sort of supernatural powers

Free reply.

>Raiden not doing a real mission, ever

What? How is this an evidence of anything, exactly? And for "real missions" you mean like formal ones? Because if we talk informal, he's done pretty of real life killing.

>Raiden has played MGS1 as VR, thus it may be that we are playing MGS2 as VR as well

This is so nonsensical is barely classifies as a slippery slope.

>the Game Over screen

As seen from GW's screen.

>the little tiles on thew floor in the last act

Holographic imagery. Cutting edge technology.

>Ultimately it's left ambigous.

As it should be, if the game wasn't clear enough about this point.

>She's even pregnant.

and has a kid in MGS4

No, it has been proven pregnant women cannot have kids, do your research.

I can not fathom the stupidity in your post

Yes, it has been proven pregnant women can have kids, research you do.

fuck this , it's 2 AM I am going to bed

No matter what, the series is dead. Kojima made sure of that with mgsv

>except MGS4 proves it's not VR.

>Le MGS4 disproving anything about MGS2 meme

MGS4 wasn't supposed to be a thing, so we can't judge MGS2 based on that.

Yeah but in MGS2 supernatural stuff may actually have an explanation. It doens't need it, of course, but it may be the case this time.

>Why wouldn't she exist? She's even pregnant.

She appearing in the last cutscene was pretty ambigous on whether if the chick that you talked through the whole game was actually the real Rose. Rosemary, as in, Raiden's girlfriend, was a thing, whether she appears on the game or not is another thing.

>Computer viruses do that. Did you just skip through all the cutscenes?
>Free reply.
>the Game Over screen
>the little tiles on thew floor in the last act

Yeah, so it could be or it could not be a VR. My point is that both things could be explained by everything being in VR.

>What? How is this an evidence of anything, exactly? And for "real missions" you mean like formal ones? Because if we talk informal, he's done pretty of real life killing.
Yes, but not on offical orders. When his chapter starts he says that he's done "over 300 VR missions"; implying that this is his first deployment, Jack the Ripper Aside.

>As it should be, if the game wasn't clear enough about this point.
Hence how I said that it may or may not have been a simulator. MGS4 completely shits on this though.

>MGS3 is objectively better because the gameplay is more survival based

This. If only they could design a whole game around the survival. Making traps to catch live food, tending to your wounds, and all the stuff you learn in game could actually help you out in real life too. Like a video game version of Survivorman or something.

>Raiden I killed your parents and now I'm going to kill you
>No it's okay I'll wait for you to finish your phonecall
>"Raisins, this whole thing isn't about Solid Snake Simulation, it's some bullshit about controlling information because the internet is killing human culture"
>"This is DEEP. SHIT. Raisins. Scissors. Do you understand, now we've injected some basic meme theory into the plot through a hamfisted 30 minute conversation this game is deep and intellectual and you just don't GET it"

Solidus is also the worst Snake

The survival mechanics were superficial and basically "babbys first gameplay mod" tier

I can appreciate Kojima wanting to experiment, but MGS2 was pretty much the peak of the series so far as gameplay is concerned. Everything was simple, crisp, and worked seamlessly. You weren't overloaded with a bunch of useless "options" like in the later games, and the game's levels was actually designed around the equipment you were given.

Its honestly disappointing the series put more and more emphasis on having a wide range of weapons as if that actually improved the gameplay; its just giving you 100 different ways to do the same thing when there are clearly 1-3 /most efficient/ ways you already know about.

Am I the only one who liked this fight? It took me forever to beat, but by the time I beat it, I felt like a fucking badass flipping around dodging missiles and taking the rays down

I got a whole new level of appreciation for MGS2 while playing it on European Extreme, not to mention going through the tons and tons and tons of quality side content

MGS3 truly is the plebs choice of MGS. Is it an all around horrible game? No, but it sure as fuck is so, so much worse not only compared to the games inside its own franchise but any plausible competition at the time (splinter cell, hitman, thief, even fucking ghost recon) that its actually a joke how its practically a clunkier, slower, menu browser edition of MGS2 in "outdoor" hallways with the most cringelord squad of bosses so far even by the standards of MGS

Also, the people who actively try to dumb down anything even slightly thoughtful by screaming LE DEEP HAHA TEY TRIED TO BE MUH DEEP should be shot on sight. You being genuinely threatened by anything that doesnt submit to being completely vapid and empty of meaning doesnt mean its an actual flaw, it just means thinking and discussion is too hard for you.

Made all the more hilarious by the fact that yes, there is nothing "deep" indeed. Yet you still thought it was too deep for you.

I dont think any boss fight in the later games matched the same level of intensity.

I see your bait and raise you:
MGS2 was a VR mission and had fuck all to do with anything
Whilst 3 set the stage for the relationship between Snake and Big Momma/ set the premise for the "Man on Fire" and was key in how Snake became Big Boss

But I prefer 2 aswell lololol

> some basic meme theory
You play the smart guy now, but back in 2001 this was groundbreaking. This isn't nu-Kojima we're talking about here.

Included in the HD remaster or..?
I didn't get a demo :(

Are you retarded?

Not to the best of my knowledge, no. Are you?
What am I missing?

Kojima made it VERY clear back in the day he was done with MGS after 2, but people kept asking for more and they sold well. Notice that 3, POs, PW and 4 were all radically different in their own ways, perhaps Kojima's way to change the series enough to get away from it. Shit, 5 also followed that same route.

Its one of the handful of bosses in MGS that you can't really just bullshit through. Honestly the Ray fight is up there with the Hind D in MGS1 and Rex for me. All three of those felt like I had to actually be careful and pay attention to beat.