Isn't the timed hits-based combat just QTEs? Why is it so praised?

Technically they are, yes. But there's a huge spectrum between ''game's combat is based around qtes'' and ''rhythm game''. The latter's ''qtes'' happen so frequently and in line with each other that I don't those can be called QTEs, rather, it's button mashing at that point.

Because they are more than just timed hits-based combat.

Say it with me:

It's okay when Nintendo does it.

If you're going to use that logic, then you can say that about literally every rhythm game in existence.
>hurr isn't guitar hero just one big qte

Do you even know what QTE stands for? If you did, you wouldn't ask this question.

What is the best Mario and Luigi game out of the 5 that are out now?

>but the mechanics aren't the core reason why people loved the games.
I am not talking about the games whole, it's why I said ''it'', as in, the combat.

>Choosing the right attack on the right enemy, learning what attacks and statuses best work in certain situations, knowing when to heal/buff your character, using specific gear and weapons to make builds that offer different possibilities, etc.
Well that's every JRPG. I'm talking about the timed hits-based combat.

Superstar Saga, Bowser's Inside Story, and Dream Team are the best ones.

They're all pretty good though, I'd recommend just playing them in order

It's more engaging than just selecting which enemy to attack, combining the strategy of turn-based with the skill required for a timed button press. It's not a complex battle system, but not every game needs to be.

I am talking about the combat.

Maybe you're onto something there user. I'm a big fan of PM64 & TTYD but the other ones I'm not into as much. I mention I prefer PM64/TTYD since they did way more than just timed A-press, there are actually a big variety of ways to attack in those games with you holding the analog stick back for your hammer, Shell Toss, etc. or holding A for Bombette's Body Slam or Vivian's random button that pops up with her normal attack or Bobbery's slingshot for Bomb Squad or the Crystal Stars ways to attack with Power Lift (Hit the Orange & Blue Arrows, avoid the Poison Mushrooms) & Clock Out (Spam a certain button on the thing you want to freeze/stun which varies from Mario, the crowd & enemy). With this variety they certainly don't feel like QTEs to me, then again while I find the other games less engaging compared to Paper Mario they're still fun regardless.

see
Quick time events, what about it?

Quick "time" event

Mario and Luigi never got a good sequel and should have stood alone in retrospect.

Hm yeah, that might explain it. Compared to other JRPGs, the combat is more than just ''select command, select target''.

Have you not actually played a Mario RPG or are you being retarded?

BiS is better than SS, much better writing and character charm too. Bowser wasn't just a dumb butt monkey for other characters to abuse like in the first game (not that he doesn't get abused in this game too but at least he gets payback).

muh bowser

Why in the world would you think that a game would be praised only on its RPG combat mechanics? Why would you think that such lavish praise has no consideration towards the art direction, the pacing, the way the game handles stats and level progression, the writing, the characters, the presentation of the world, or just how everything ends up being fun to play without tedious or overstaying its welcome? Why would you assume that all the praise dumped onto the whole series is only due to having timed hits in combat?

I've played all of them up to BiS, what am I missing?

You're saying timed hits isn't QTEs because? They're a quick, timed event, in which you have to press a button. They even give you prompts for the special moves and combat items.

>>Why in the world would you think that a game would be praised only on its RPG combat mechanics?
see

I don't think writing is the strength of SSS. The writing of BiS only kept reminding me that I was playing a game made for children. I don't know how any grown adult can enjoy these plots

But the rest of the game's aspects is for children too, including the simplistic gameplay and visuals. You're an adult right? Does that mean you can't appreciate the rest either?

The "timed hits" in the Mario RPGs are praised because they allow you to avoid damage (and deal some extra damage) and thus, you can substitute skill for levels/grinding. A person skilled at the game can avoid taking damage nearly all the time, and can end up challenging and defeating enemies at a much lower level than what they normally would.

In most RPGs, what you can do is dependent almost entirely on level, where if you don't have a minimum level then you just can't succeed in a particular fight - there is a set amount of XP gathering required (frequently grinding) before you can get to a certain point in the game. In the Mario RPGs, this frequently is not the case, and you could potentially skip a lot of fights and still manage to progress through the stage or area's boss.

BiS even has an easter egg if you get through the whole game at minimum levels. I can't remember if any of the other M&L games do that.

So you're saying that they're praised because, compared to other JRPGs, they're less shallow combat-wise?

QTEs aren't inherently bad. You can make a game entirely about "QTEs" and it would likely be fine if handled well. Like rhythm games or whatever. Because then the QTEs would be the gameplay and the gameplay would be designed to capitalize on it.

But QTEs as it is most commonly seen is oppositely to remove gameplay and control from player in favour of presenting some cinematic display that the player had no direct influence or control over. And utter bullshit.

These arguments can be directed towards poor usage of cinematics in general, but the problem is that developers so often use QTEs to pretend like their cinematics are gameplay.

They're easy to play and fun

They're not QTEs in the usual "button shows up on screen and you have 4s to press it" sense. Most of the time, you have to judge when to press for yourself, and even when you have a bar (an easy command) it's okay because it's a way to make the fights more lively, despite it being simple you can't just chose an attack.

Basically this. QTEs and timed execution of attacks are different things in my books. For me, QTEs are things that occur during cutscenes/cinematic moments where the creator wants to show something cool or exciting, and in doing so, take away control from players. Then they put in a QTE to force in some lame "gameplay interaction" to make players feel like THEY did the really cool thing, and give them a sense of pride/satisfaction. QTEs are fake "gameplay" that basically amount to mashing a button during a cutscene to make it proceed.

>They're not QTEs in the usual "button shows up on screen and you have 4s to press it" sense
But they are. You choose the command, then press the button within a limited time span before you connect a hit or do the onscreen prompts if it's a special move or combat item.

Isn't life just one big QTE?

Yeah but it's not as babby-tier as "A shows up on screen and you have 3s to press it", if you jump you have to judge the enemy's height and press A just before you touch it. When an enemy attack you don't have a button appearing on screen, you have to see the attack itself and press at the right time.

>Yeah but it's not as babby-tier as "A shows up on screen and you have 3s to press it",
But QTEs don't have to be 3s, people hate QTEs in general even if they're half a second, because they trivialize combat. Also Mario's QTEs are very forgiving, especially Paper Mario's and M&L, hell the latter even has a difficulty select for the special moves' QTEs.
>When an enemy attack you don't have a button appearing on screen, you have to see the attack itself and press at the right time.
Actually you do see the prompt, it's how you know if you have to use your jump or hammer, it's just not in SMRPG.

Your words are as empty as your soul. RPG ill needs a savior such as you!

>Like rhythm games or whatever
Right, but we're talking about something as radically different as a game's combat, which is when QTEs are hated the most.

I think Dream Team expanded on the combat to be more than just QTEs, like the enemy attacks where you're running and have to dodge the oncoming attacks constantly.

I think the truth about QTE lies in the word EVENT. They started out as a thing in games that when they appeared the broke from the regular gameplay-formula of the game and threw the player into an event they had to solve by quickly following on-screen instructions e.g. pushing certain buttons

>people hate QTEs in general even if they're half a second, because they trivialize combat
They trivialize combat in non-RPG games where you'd usually have much more complex mechanics, i.e. action games and such. In an RPG usually all you'd do is select attack and target.

>Also Mario's QTEs are very forgiving
Not as much as the QTEs everyone despise. Of course, some of them are very forgiving but I adressed that in my first post. Others are harder to get right which spice things up a little.

>hell the latter even has a difficulty select for the special moves' QTEs.
It changed the whole attack iirc. Harder QTE = bigger damage.

>Actually you do see the prompt, it's how you know if you have to use your jump or hammer, it's just not in SMRPG.
I'm talking about guarding/superguarding. No button prompt.
Even in jump, there's no prompt, A shows up at the very beginning of the attack, but you have to see when to press it yourself.

>babby tier
Bayonetta 1 has some of the most hated QTEs of all time, because they're so fast and sudden.

>The writing of BiS only kept reminding me that I was playing a game made for children

SSS was also made for children, and was written as such. Don't be a hypocrite just because you have a nostalgiaboner for SSS.

QTEs in most games are hated, because it takes away control and reduces all of your possible abilities, movement, and options into "press A"

however, in turn-based RPGs, where the standard is just to select an attack and see what happens, any element of further interaction is welcome. a QTE in this context gives you MORE control.

They give the battles a certain rhythm and engage the player much more than

>Attack
>Attack
>Attack
>Attack
>Next
>Next
>Next
>Next

In the Console RPG series it's more of a skill based progression system with the badges giving you new moves and being able to increase your HP and Magic Bars to be able to use those moves. Each has different uses for the enemies you face and you gotta figure out the best for the situation to equip and use. You also get a partner in battle to use to add to your strategy along with super moves you gain after each chapter. In addition there is a defensive system that allows you to mitigate or deflect damage to your attacker if your good enough with timing.

It's quite in depth actually. The handheld RPGs are more of the same but with more attack options and more player interactivity during battle

Go play/watch TTYD or Superstar Saga's combat it's really fun

>Not as much as the QTEs everyone despise
People hate any kind of QTEs in combat, also the faster ones like Bayo's are hated even more than usual, cause they're so cheap.
>It changed the whole attack iirc. Harder QTE = bigger damage.
Nah, the attack is the same, the difficulty levels extend the time limit of the input and also give a prompt as to which button you need to press.
>Even in jump, there's no prompt
Maybe the first time, but afterwards you always know when to press it since it's turn-based, it's not like in a real-time action game where you're in the midst of frantic combat.

Comparing a game design concept from an old game series to a game concept developed later on is a bit silly. QTEs were created to make cinema scenes more engaging, connecting the concept of pressing buttons to make things happen to QTEs makes about as much sense as calling action games "non-linear QTE games" ("they're just graphic adventure games with QTEs!") but I suppose they are similar in the sense that game designers were trying to make passive gameplay more active.

I think SMRPG's combat works well as an alternative to Final Fantasy's annoying real-time battle system and it should be thought of in relation to that.

Sticker Star is not a RPG. It's an adventure game with turn-based battles.

Because people have low standards when it comes to JRPGs.

Giving life to battles based on turns and menus by using QTE's is great.

Replacing segments of an actiongame that should be a bossfight with QTE is not okay.

>tfw you will never get a Mario rpg that incorporates the best elements from TTYD (crowd interaction, stylish moves, different inputs for attacks) and the bro combo attacks from SS. Fuck my shit up man, getting the perfect attack with like 5 stylish inputs or doing the highest level bro move at full speed with the advanced version always felt so satisfying.