MMORPG

www.worldsadrift.com

shakes and fidget is a MMO satire.

A blizzard ceo made this game. Thinks MMOs are retarded but is still happy to make them for cash. That's the satire joke on this game.

>www.worldsadrift.com
is it good user?

TELL ME !

oh god i remember this

the servers were so fucking awful, people were begging for the owner to open up donations so he could get some decent ones and he kept being a faggot about it for no reason

Seems so. Pay once play forever, using interesting engine and consequently one sole server. Basically minecraft with flying ships, blueprints and ecosystem.

Have you played it?

Do you reckon its a no mans sky flop material?

Is there char customisation?

In fairness, we have new servers now.

Camelot Unchained
Star Citizen

Korean MMOs like Archeage and Black Desert fucked with ur head

What people are trying to say is

No there's nothing but 'alright' MMO's and to waste time on them is pointless.

Am sieving through steam free to play games.

>Camelot Unchained
They somehow managed to make a game that looks and plays worse than EQ1.
>Star Citizen
Oh come on, I'll give you the first game is interesting albeit a bit bland, but this is horseshit to include.

Yes, it is sandbox. The game isn't supposed to hold 1000 players on one island, so there will be a lot of lore and investigation. Characters are customisable, robes craftable, and it's a physics based mmo, which is really refreshing. I haven't played it, but was following few twitches of alpha tests. Seems laggy for now.

>free to play
You get what you pay for.
Only the subscription mmos are worth a damn.

The community for them is much better at least

>horseshit to include.
Why? Have you not read anything about the game outside of Cred Forums since 2013?

They will also implement jedi outcast battle system.

>don't understand open development the post

MMOs definitely don't work with this modern AAA model every game has to be made by but indies don't really have the resources to make something on that scale with consistent quality, it's sad.

i think a studio could have a real shot if they scaled back the graphics but no publisher is going to bankroll anything that doesn't have 4K TRIPLE HD GRAFIX.

I think it's gonna make a return when developers put it on phones and make people do augmented reality raids.

The top 5 MMOs right now are:
>World of Warcraft
>Final Fantasy XIV
>Guild Wars 2
>EVE Online
>SWTOR

If you don't like ANY of these games, the MMO genre is not for you.

candy crush for babys MMO

Man I really want to see the charm again to get into the adventure.
Just one more fucking time please ;_;

>MMOs
>a genre
you just like Everquest clones my dud

WoW was for him before cataclysm.

Final fantasy is boring
Guild wars 2 AIDS
EVE boring
SWTOR hmmmm dunno

The MMO idea was simple

A fantasy world that's engaging.

They make it boring in every big MMO.

I only see WoW pre cata achieve that ideal well enough to spend time on it.

>Have the tech to make some insanely cool MMOs
>People just don't have the creativity or design know-how

This is why we need idea guys.
MMOs are a genre devoid of them and suffer for it

Is the game playable?

I play mmos based on how much I want to sex the females.

It's not dead, it's the people that play them that are dead.

>New MMO FOTM
>HYPE HYPE
>Play CBT
>Play OB
>Play Release
>Get to end game
>Find something to complain about and quit
>Repeat

It's like these people don't know what they WANT really. You were taught when you were born that nothing in this world is perfect, so why is it that people let one thing about these games ruin their experience? Then there's the uninformed ones, example; Blade & Soul is a competitive focus MMO. When players got to the end game they complain about the lack of PvE content. Again, Blade & Soul is a competitive MMO first, focusing on PvP content first. Had they done any research before getting into the game they would have known this.

Me personally, I just play what I like, what I find acceptable and reasonable.

How hard can it fucking be

Make a cool world, let people customise their char. assist one another to achieve a goal.
A world that elicits real life wonder.

Nope.

Buy crystals for $10 the MMO- that is all I see today.

If there was no money and there was lots of passionate talented people, they would make a game without the gated money horseshit and it wud feel good to play.

The thing that makes MMOs playable - devoted communities - don't come from a brainstorming session.

>Blade & Soul is a competitive focus MMO
Why would you play 1v1 arenas in an mmo instead of just playing a fighting game?

The biggest complaint you hear about people when it comes to MMOs is "they're all the same, I'm sick of doing the same quest 10,000 times"

MMOs aren't gonna be good again until someone makes a game that actually encourages people to group up for fucking EVERYTHING instead of just being a mediocre single player RPG with a dungeon queue, and sometimes raids if your guild actually does shit.

The one actual advantage MMOs have over other games is having a fuckton of people to play with at once yet every game squanders that to cater to people who avoid all human interaction even online

Except for the fact that balance is a huge issue that can cripple mmo's and there's tons of math involved in that. I think an MMO designed strictly by engineers and math guys would be the best, shit gets pretty shitty when they try to go too artsy with it.

I also find with a lot of MMO's character movement and using your abilities feels mushy and delayed, everything should be tight and crisp. Not having that "tight" feeling totally ruins a game for me

Mechanical character customization.

CU has no game mechanics in place and tests its engine under an NDA every weekend.
SC has spaceflight, dogfighting, and avatars in but no MMO mechanics in place.

The last one I almost enjoyed was PSO2. Might have had more fun if an NA release had ever happened so my friends would have joined.

Go ask the developers that question - why he made a competitve MMO rather than a grinding MMO - as well as the millions of people who begged for this game to come to the west for YEARS!

I just seem to catch cancer or AIDS in MMO's today.

Logging into WoW in night elf starting area in 2007 as a 14 year old could of cured me of AIDS and cancer it was that good.

Thoughts on Crowfall?

a Korean looking mmo that has 1 dev working on it?

I dunno

>mmos are too easy, I want something that challenges me
>oh shit, I didn't mean that challenging
mmos are shit because mmo players are shit.

Yes, Mobile games took what MMO's did already and do it better, without the needless grind.

My issue with MMOs is no one wants to be social.
It's like pulling teeth trying to talk or make friends 90% of the time, people just form cliques and then thats it

>a competitve MMO rather than a grinding MMO
I dunno, BnS felt pretty grindy when I tried it.

Don't really like Rust-style FFA gameplay and prefer the RvRvR style of DAOC.
I hear they have problems with mass-scale fighting (as in, the engine's networking can't support it).

MMOs don't give you a reason to be social anymore
Almost everything that's not a dungeon is doable by yourself
Which kinda goes against the MULTIPLAYER part of MMOs in my opinion

Nothing wrong with cliques. It's how guilds are born.

that's a flaw with MMOs, not MMO players. the games are meant to be a slow burn and yet every one of them has boring, ezmode leveling because the whole point of the game is to rush to max level and start running loot treadmills.

that's why Everquest was such a huge success. the entire game was the point, not just rushing to endgame to start gathering up welfare epics. leveling took time and there was a massive, dangerous world to explore. there were all kinds of quests and other shit to do that weren't just "go to x, bring me y amount of z" handed out en masse. you start off as a weak ass nobody and can build yourself up to be extremely powerful, it's not just handed to you.

but every MMO is a stale WoW clone with one or two gimmicks tacked on. same railroady quest grinding, same loot treadmills. "story" usually involves you being the super amazing unique hero (alongside the thousands of other people you're playing with) the genre is just garbage now, it's not the player's fault that companies keep making shit

every mmmo
>shitty grinding
>p2w
>premium bullshits
>Chineses resellers
>in game cash shops
>awful comunity mostly underage

how do we fix it boys?

Look up Albion Online. It is really group-focused in many regards, from training combat to completing dungeons, guild wars and PvP, even the high level resources require a group because pkers and guilds will try to keep control over those resource gathering areas, so your guild gatherers need protection.
Even with all that it's possible to play solo, but a group makes the experience more worthwhile and wholesome.

A free world MMO with a optional goal to be a fucking nugget with armor.

Wow so hard to fucking make.

SIGHHH

Come join me over here .
The entire game centres around the community, and there's so many fierce friendships made here. I'm the head of a clan that's been running for eighteen years, and the game thrives still from the love of its players.

youtube.com/watch?v=RYMH3qrHFEM

WoW for PvE.
FFXIV for ERP.
Blade & Soul for PvP.

That's about it for me.

Whats your clan can u ivite me??

What game is it?

I still play Elsword but that's a weird MMO, patches are way more frequent and it's not point and click but action sidescroller platform combo based or some shit. And it's dying but if you count MOBAs they aren't dying, I guess a portion of MMOs are dying, most likely the old ones.

>Why would you play 1v1 arenas in an mmo instead of just playing a fighting game?
Did you know Dungeon Fighter Online and Blade & Soul are two of the biggest MMOs in Korean and they both are competitive 1v1 arena MMOs? The most successful MMOs in Korean are always the competitive ones.

Like I said, had all those players did some research before just jumping into the game they've have known this is fact. But instead we get butt hurt and false negativity towards the game for something that it was never trying to be - a mindless PvE grinding MMO.

>I dunno, BnS felt pretty grindy when I tried it.
What!? BnS is probably the easiest MMO out there. It requires literally nothing to reach end game when you compare it to real grind fest MMOs. Y'know the ones that make grinding a real end game feature.

>how do we fix it boys?
You don't, it's fucked. The mmo audience is a fucking cesspool. You either make your game easy so tons of people can play it while they bullshit in voice or you make it a little bit more challenging and turn people off since they don't want to have to actually play well.

>Check out Revelation Online

youtube.com/watch?v=voBxIPyZR5s

I miss being able to play MMOs where the world was threatening and scary, and players were genuinely helpful and encouraged each other to make progress.

>What!? BnS is probably the easiest MMO out there.
I didn't say it was hard, I said it felt grindy. It was so boring and repetitive I didn't even make it past lvl 14.

LOL is the only consistent community today.

everything else is

AHHH fuk don't die on me, dev team

Everquest didn't have quests, you had to make them yourself. This also led to lots of players quitting for WoW because there was no direction in the game other than the meta players set (which was raid this boss for epic loot, the same shit you do in WoW).

I play wildstar for both pve and erp.

LOL is not an MMO dip shit.

it's the WoW clone model, WoW started that shit by making everything about quest grinding and it ruined the genre. quests should be more varied and interesting but they're the primary method of leveling so there has to be thousands of mediocre, uninteresting quests instead of solid ones.

i think WAR had the right idea by adding the recurring world events you could get XP from. we just need something more dynamic and complex than that, something that's ever-changing in some way to make it more interesting. probably too much to ask for.

this is another big issue with MMOs now. there's honestly no reason for them to be MMOs in the first place. just grind through your linear series of quests that are "go to x, bring me y amount of z" until you hit max level, then run instanced loot treadmills for the rest of the game.

community is what I meant

A GROUP OF PEOPLE on a game.

>I didn't even make it past lvl 14.
>it felt grindy.

Spamming LFG in chat to find a group to enter a dungeon is no different than entering a dungeon through a premade dungeon queue.

>Everquest didn't have quests
Why bother lying, user?

Skyforge's upcoming ascension update looks promising for pure combat, albeit I'd also note that its pve and pvp content are repetitive and boring so it's a sadly wasted combat system, once the Ascension update fully completes its combat (you can actually dodge projectiles not, for instance, amongst other things that should have been in at release).

I'm of the opinion that Skyforge's release was not a release, but a very very early version of the game that should count as a pre-release because Skyforge's updates and massive content changes are starting to remind me of a Warframe situation (albeit, nowhere near as good as warframe).

so no MMO on horizon

nice.

So people today (kids and gamer newcomers) want mobile games.

OK

We can never go back to those days. You'll never ask a player for directions in an MMO ever again because you can just look online or look at the minimap they put right on your screen with GPS pathfinding to wherever you want to go.

You'll never stop in your tracks as a hill giant comes over the horizon because there are no high-level roaming mobs near newb zones because players would cry about it. And even if there were you wouldn't really care, because death costs you nothing except 30 seconds of running.

You'll never spend an hour sneaking through the Freeport sewers as an evil race to catch the ship that comes periodically to ferry people between continents. Those days are well and truly gone

EQ, DAoC, UO and Asheron's call all had quests. I remember doing them.

You don't sound confident

WoW players sound confident even if a upcoming patch is shit.

The ground is covered in wild flowers thanks to the antics of passing druids. A subpath of poets, one of the many natural talents of the druid is to call forth fresh blossoms to fill an area.
The flowers do nothing. They're just flowers. Yet, druids will often receive requests to bloom certain flowers, such that they may be collected and arranged as floor decorations elsewhere for important places or events.

I've been having a lot of fun in FFXIV. People have been helpful on my server, got invited to a few groups to do dungeons with or help slay world boss monsters, and I would have never slayed any extreme primal or gotten far with crafting without the help of other players.

Nice hi-larious reaction image bruh.
Yeah, it felt grindy and boring. This coming from someone who leveled several alts in wildstar, another game with boring leveling. That's how fucking boring and grindy BnS was when I tried it.

same. it was one of the craziest things about P99, people are generally really helpful and social. high leveled players enjoy hanging out, buffing lowbies, giving out gold and items. i had a level 12 ranger geared out almost entirely by lower end power items just handed out to me by high levels, no begging. usually guildies of the people i was grouping with.

can u screencap character selection ?

MUDs are still alive

I don't want to believe it. Is there any hope at all for Pantheon?

I guess I could boot up infernomoo

MMO genre is dead on the inside.

By that I mean we'll still get tons of MMOs being released, but not one of them will be worth playing. They're all going to be shitty rehashes of the same few games, none of them will be particularly well received or successful and will all suffer from a constantly dwindling player base until they inevitably get shut down.

alright you convinced me, i'm gonna give this a go after like 10 years of not playing it

>Implying dungeons are the only thing you need to group up to do
For real a lot of MMOs could be completely offline except for dungeons and the experience wouldn't change at all.

MMOS will never be good again because the internet is a different landscape now than it was 16 years ago.

Need help finding something? Just wiki it.
Looking forward to new content? Just datamine it.
Want to join a social group? Just go on Facebook.
Studying to beat a epic boss? Just look up a Youtube guide or download these addons.

Maybe. If they manage to snap up all the disenfranchised old timers like us and that's enough to sustain them.

If they're banking on the normie market they're going to be closing up shop six months from launch, if that.

At any rate I am cautiously optimistic

Is it really that hard to put some anti-datamining shit in?

Yeah attention whores u mean.

That Kritika right? How's it after beta?

not to mention most MMO players are cunts, if you ask questions in chat you just get yelled at. no one wants to be social.

No matter what kind of absurd security measures you set up, if you can program it someone can program a way around it.

same here fám, it really seems like the only MMO with developers that care.

chances are that software will make your game run like shit or it would just get cracked.

see how gameguard fucked with peoples PCs

>download these addons
I can't tell you how much I hate this. I have to use a raid helper addon since the rest of the group uses it and it feels like such a fucking crutch. Forget understanding mechanics and learning nuances, just addon will just draw lines to where you want to be and tell you what to do. Fuck learning the boss' tells, this addon will just tell you when he's about to attack.

I ask questions in FFXIV all the time and people take the time to explain it. Maybe because I play on a non meme server like Gilgamesh or Balmung.

Good time for it. The owner of Kru is back in the GM's seat, as he was in ~2002, and he has some heartwarming things to say.

WoW is the only solid game on the market.

Unfortunately, yes. Until they get a way to host the game exclusively on a hardware platform of their own making with no PC release, there will always be dataminers, and even then, someone will still be an asshat and eventually break into the hardware too. They quite literally are incapable of having fun and would rather just see spreadsheets of data than play the game and experience the fun of discovering shit on your own.

I actively try to answer people's questions and never say Google it or whatever. Hate those guys. My exception is reverse image search of its obviously working

MMOs are dead because of both the developers and the players.

When I do a quest in a MMO for example, the process is I see a NPC with a marker above it's head, then talk to it. The NPC will give me a bunch of text that is terribly written and I will completely ignore. After mashing the next/accept button I get a quest that is basically "kill monsters 0/5". I even get a pointer on my map that shows me where the monsters spawn and they'll even have a marker over their head so I can't miss them.

This kind of design is what is killing MMOs and it's the developers fault we have this low quality content in the games.

But at the same time, it's the players fault because they're not only willing to accept this shit, but they will actively try to fight against any changes to this formula. If a new MMO comes out that isn't following this formula, these players will say it's bad, it's shit, it's not a real MMO because it's not like the other MMOs. And then this game flops and dies (or worse, gets remade to be another shitty theme park game).

It's both parties fault, but until we get a new MMO that is successful as something like WoW but uses an entirely new formula, nothing is going to change.

It's not, but it is the only one people give a shit about. Also helps they have the people and money to push out significant updates.

I justt want dragon quest x....

What did he mean by this?

There are multiple issues. If I had to break them down I'd go like this:

>Community
MMO communities these days are nomadic, going from one MMO to the next, and back to old ones as they get big updates. The amount of games has caused this nomadic migration between games as they get their updates.

>Community 2
Too many MMOs fail to create compelling communities within themselves. Encouraging people to work together, without making people tire of old content - which is important so that old areas aren't left barren for new players who can no longer find groups to do the grouping and community based content. This is part of why so many modern MMOs have this single player RPG element, because they know there's so little they can do to get the old community to go back and help the new community as it trickles in.

>gameplay
While there is tab target and action combat systems in the MMO genre, I don't feel like any game has hit the sweet spot. You need more than one type, however, people that are drawn to action combat systems are not necessarily drawn to tab target system. Furthermore, there needs to be better MMOs that go for a pnp turn based combat system, and, sadly, D&D, the obvious one, has failed to do this multiple times - there is a turn based combat community out there that is still not being serviced.

>Content
Legion is trying to solve the usual "MMO questing" issue in MMOs, I'm curious how their attempt will look a year from now.

Sure.

>finding people
This is why group finders and dungeon finders exist, spamming LFG in chat for hours as sometimes happened in old MMOs was a very VERY real thing. It's one thing to tell a person to find a guild, but grouping up through hard dungeons in a way that brings people together rather than getting them pissed off with each other is still, in my view, the primary way you figure out if you want to be in a guild with a person or persons. That initial group finding experience needs addressed without turning it into an impersonal auto group finder experience.

>Worlds
Worlds need to bring players into them. You need to feel like you just want to hang out there, even if you aren't doing any actual content. The worlds need to be more interactive, and animation and traversal opportunities like climbing need to be less specific. Think Shadow of the Colossus where you can climb up ledges. Your character being able to touch and interact with the world is important, and not just in climbing. It can't just be a pretty picture. Even if you're just traveling through the world from point A to point B the world needs to provide an experience you can tell someone about - like old EQ stories about a lowbie making their way from one starting area to another where their friend is, a dangerous journey that leaves you with a story to tell. WoW, in contrast, by just sticking to paths, I get easily from one starting area to another without issue, I didn't need any help or support from the community around me.

>Read tons of LNs recently
>Most are either "stuck in a game world" or about someone playing a MMO
>They have tons of good ideas and actually make MMOs sound like they could be fun to play again
>Most of the ideas aren't even complex or impossibly to implement in games
>No game like these will ever exist because the MMO genre is just shit

Feels fucking bad man.

tru

WoW is making more money than ever. And EVE: Online is extremely successful. Why would the MMORPG be considered dead?

I just want another MMO that gives me the feeling of actually hunting down world bosses in every channel for loot and exp, that's all I want. Maplestory used to be it but it's all bad now.

Depending on how well the combat changes go, bless online could be the next mmo I get into. It's been a long time since I played a fantasy mmo.

You're bringing up a 12 year old game and another 10 year old game. There's nothing new nor is there innovation in the field.

Fun. Best combat in any MMO game ever. It's like DMC. I've leveled four characters, thinking about a fifth.

Newsflash: mmos change over time. Neither WoW nor Eve are the games they were at launch.

forgot my pic.

Chances are the ideas are complex or not worth implementing.

People keep saying that they want action MMOs but in a large scale environment it would be a netcode nightmare unless you instance the hell out of everything like Vindictus or PSO2. People want MMOs where old rewards are still relevant 6 years from now but then comes the issue of how are new players supposed to be encouraged to play when they got to slog through years of shit.

>MYSTERY
Everything is on a wiki somewhere. This is a problem. I remember going from the point in EQ where you'd ask a question, and no one would know. People would try and find out, and they might not tell other people, they wouldn't even write it down for someone else to read.

Thent he sudden change when one day I asked a question and got the, "go read it on [site]" answer. All the information became available to everyone all the time. No mystery. No need for community. No need for communication. Just, go look it up yourself stop bugging us we don't want to talk to each other.

This is one of the biggest problems facing communities that want to tackle a new world. If there's nothing to discover, if all the information is available everywhere to everyone, there's no reason to explore. You're not leading the way into new territory. Someone already datamined it all and put it up for everyone to read without anyone even doing it.

This. Is. A. Death Blow. To MMO communities. And it needs to stop.

>a Korean looking mmo that has 1 dev working on it?
you're thinking of the wrong crowfall

imagine a bloodborne or DS3 MMO.

That level of immersion and atmosphere.

Source?

New server is comming to Archeage. Sadly the game still P2W like every single mmo out there..

We really just need for some NEET to win a scratchoff national lottery ticket for like 500 million and fund a game entirely on his own with no kike or SJW backing so he can determine the direction it goes 100%, assuming he plays game and understands what it is people actually want from MMOs nowadays as opposed to what we are getting, he could pull it off. Might even make a decent profit off of it, but he would have to go in with the idea that he's probably going to be losing money on it and it's just a hobby or way to spend that absurd amount of money he could never spend on his own otherwise. How are you going to spend 250 million (after muh gubment tax) on video games and instant ramen?

>I miss being able to play MMOs where the world was threatening and scary, and players were genuinely helpful and encouraged each other to make progress.
Age of Wushu was like that. It was amazing

i never played wow or any of the other big mmos

maplestory
perfect world

i love games where you just grind. most people hate it, but i love it

Oldschool MMOs like FFXI and Everquest where the world was dangerous and you lost EXP on death were nice but they would never be successful today because those mechanics are more of a detriment than a good game design choice.

If I'm a normie that wants to play 2 hours a day and I lost half the EXP I earned from one mistake, I would probably stop playing or be heavily deterred from playing.

>Fun. Best combat in any MMO game ever. It's like DMC. I've leveled four characters, thinking about a fifth.
are enemies actually a threat or just punching bags placed in the game for you to juggle?

What was WoW and what is WoW now?

>shakes and fidget
God, I remember I loved to read their stuff backthen

What type of quest should be in a MMO? Give me some examples, please.

One I was just reading had a character who had a linguistics skill. In the game world it was considered a shit skill because why would you pick a skill to read books instead of something like a weapon or magic skill?

Using this skill though, the guy found a hidden dungeon in a library and traversing through it required solving puzzles. Those puzzles required him to read books and such.
This dungeon had it's own story, it's own lore, it only opened up at night time and took the players several hours to complete and wasn't just a small number of rooms with encounters and bosses in them which had to be defeated by learning the bosses mechanics.
This dungeon could be ran once a day and offered a unique reward for doing so.

You telling me something like this is too hard to implement in a MMO?

>STILL no MMO with open world PVP and 0 safezones with ACTUALLY GOOD COMBAT

The closest thing was ArcheAge but it had shitton of stupid fucking safezones and bots killed it.

I wish China and all the gold farmers were kscorched in a ball of nuclear fire

mmos are not just glorified chat rooms where people go to talk shit about their jobs and spouses. They just want to faceroll shit while bullshitting with their friends. If they can't do that in your mmo they'll move onto the next, or back to wow.

>you'll NEVER play AoC on release again

Wow vanilla: a slow slog that was difficult and lacked much content, that focused more on the game world and exploration. It was more like a sandbox.

Wow today: an extremely refined, fast paced game with clear directed pathd and lots of hand holding, with instances being the main focus.

If you can get past the graphics (Or if you plan to play RS3, get past the WoW clone combat), then Oldschool Runescape is a really fucking great MMO
>best quests in any game i've ever seen
>also no repetitive quests like "Kill X amount of things" or "fetch X amount of items" once you are done wiht the quests, you are done with them
>quests usually expand the amount of content that you can use, some unlock teleportation spells or transportation methods that allow you to travel faster around the world, they allow you to use special equipment or grant access to new areas
>multiple bosses spread around the world which you can tackle alone or with other people
>the death system: you die you lose everything (pvp wise, it is a little bit less punishing if u die by an NPC)
>combat is about getting the highest stats you can and comboing your weapons effectively for a KO
>pvp worlds where no place is safe except banks
>has actual lore-gameplay integration
>many skills to train and many ways to make money

It is just a fantastic game to me

I think there should be safezones. I don't think I should time my shits because I'm worried someone might pk me while I'm away.

Community is what makes mmo good or bad. MMO's on the west slowly rot because of selfishness and unfriendly impatience of it's players, which flee to MOBAs for cheap win experience, mmos on the east prosper indeed.

>You telling me something like this is too hard to implement in a MMO?
nah

The Secret World comes pretty close to that, but it has another issue.

People would powergame the heck out of it by reading up strats online. FFS Final Fantasy 14's biggest problem is that you are forced by the community to watch the fights on youtube before you're actually allowed to participate in them.

Quality of Life changed, the game is still the same.

If you want to take a fat ogre shit then you go to local inn and log there.

>Looking forward to new content? Just datamine it.
why are niggers putting up new content to be datamined before completion
WoW's PTR is too openly accessible

Not hard to implement but not worth implementing.

not many players would pick the skill so not many players will see it, this is dev resources gone to something that could have went to other more important areas

if the rewards for doing the dungeon were extremely good, word will get out through wikis and the internet and then the "hidden dungeon" won't be so hidden anymore. this is also assuming that people haven't already datamined the dungeon and shit yet.

RS2 quests were dynamite.

The mini stories made good sense without having to know any lore or shit.

The problem with the genre now is the crowd that was attracted to the games now compared to then. It's all about personal achievements and goals rather than the ones of the group.

>Open World PVP
>With 0 safezones
This actually sounds fun as fuck.

MMOs in the east prosper because japs and gooks are fucking retarded and buy P2W items.

And that means the game can be fucking trash, as long as it has a cash shop, it WILL live.

The problem isn't the type of quests. The problem is the presentation of the quests.
If you simplify them, every quest will have one of a few objectives. Kill something, retrieve something or explore something.

The problem with MMOs is they never bother presenting quests in an interesting way. You talk to a NPC and he just says "kill 5 things", and off you go to kill 5 things. If you're lucky maybe he'll say "kill 5 wolves because they're eating our chickens" or something like that. But nothing changes except for a bit of flavour text no one reads.

Quests need to be presented in a more interesting way. Instead of telling me to kill 5 wolves, the guy should tell me people are being attacked by them on the roads, then he should have me escort people and while we're on our little adventure we get ambushed by wolves.
Maybe this quest happens at predefined times (like once per game day) and people sign up before it starts, and then those people have to work together to protect the people being escorted (and if they fail the quest fails for everyone).

MMOs need to make quests like single player RPGs present their storylines. I don't want to be told to kill 5 wolves. I want to be told I'm off on an adventure with many twists and turns.

I actually liked the way everquest did questing and lvling..

To be fair, FF14's endgame shit is one big game of Simon Says, if you're standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time you're fucking dead. I'm all for learning the fights yourself but doing it for a game like that would just be an exercise in frustration.

I played vanilla on nost to 60. I played warlords of Draenor way more.

They were both totally different games.

Don't forget about ACTUALLY GOOD COMBAT part.

If you can't engage into battles that are fun 24/7 every single time then it would just be a fucking obnoxious annoyance getting attacked instead of "OH SHIT IT'S GO TIME!"

Had a max'd cat thief before on the JP servers, I should prolly get back to that

It also has a great community, a little bit memetastic because some cancer skills like Agility require minimal imput, but most of the time you can have a blast of a time if you team up with someone

It's nearly impossible to create an innovative mmo these days.

The amount of funding needed is insane enough to the point where indie developers won't get very far and established developers will stick with what's safe.

Pic very related.

>if not the playerbase the devs will fuck up the game
I want to jump off from this ride

see runescape does this perfectly

How's Tera anons? I got a character to lvl 23 several years ago, and recently picked it back up.

The introduction to the game puts you against enemies that aren't much a threat, thy want you to get a fell for the game. By the time you reach, eh, 15 - 20 (which is when you pick your advancement) a stream of diversity is presented in your path.They're all based on the action game formula. Enemies with shields, super armor, dodging, range attacks, higher difficult = more aggressive and higher health polls, resistance to spam attacks, etc. And there are tons of bosses with variety.

>open pvp with 0 safezones
>good combat is what i say it is

please never design a game, is like you want your playerbase gone by the end of the week

>implying westerners do not buy P2W items when they can

Vanilla: Nothing worked right and we have no idea what we're doing
WoD: Some things don't work and we have ideas what to do, but we're going to fuck them up anyways.

If theres only one dungeon it would devolve into a linguistic character only grinding one dungeon.

>2016
>not playing new amazing wow expansion

I need a game with customisation with online features.

Post butt.

In the book I read, datamining the game is impossible. So knowledge is actually powerful and people who learn secrets actually keep it secret to gain advantages over it.
The main character for example figured out how to enchant magic into items after the item had already been made. He's the only person who can do this and hasn't told anyone else. Because of that he's got his own business going and has gained a level of fame.

The linguistic skill in this book was useful because it allowed the main character to read books and inscriptions and such and learn information other people wouldn't know about.

Datamining isn't even hard to prevent in MMOs either. You just got to keep data stored server side. But doing that costs more money so it's not done much.

Yeah, I remember playing Runescape back in the early 2000s. It's quests were actually pretty good and involving. These days though, MMOs don't have quests like that.

I get up everyday with the thirst of MMORPG. Full of qt waifus and good gameplay

Yet I can't find any to quench my needs. It really sucks.

both vanilla and WoD still has the same core game design that items levels are everything and you need better gear to do harder fights.

can't beat vanilla bosses without fire resistance gear, gotta farm for that.

can't beat WoD bosses without a certain item level, gotta farm for that.

>You just got to keep data stored server side.
so basically stream the game like Onlive?
you do realize you can just sniff the packets with wireshark and datamine it that way

>MMO where everyone starts as ranged/melee physical warrior
>to learn magic, you first need to find a way to, either from spelltomes scattered around the world which are either handplaced/randomly generated in order to reward exploration, the strength of the spell varies around how many users it has in total
>spells can be taught, and people witnessing them have a very tiny chance of learning them
>HOWEVER, that means the spell weakens with every single person that knows it
>so a common firebolt would deal small amount of damage, some extremely rare spell with only 1-2 users would be a city wiper
>you can forget spells if you don't use them for a prolonged amount of time

Would you play this?

If datamining games wasn't hard to prevent, someone would have found an effective solution by now. Right now there is none without causing detriment to player.

This thread is pushing me back into WoW because ITS THE ONLY THING close to a good MMO.

Good job guys. . . . .

That's retarded because then every spell would eventually become shitty if people played long enough

No. Every spell in the game would be as weak as possible in two or three days tops.

What about EVE?

Tell me how SW:G went

The gameplay was way different. Vanilla I would litterally fall asleep bored fighting mobs.

Warlords the gameplay was much more fast paced. My keyboard button inputs per minute must've been 4 times as high in Warlords than Vanilla. I never got bored killing mobs, in the game world and instances. Just a much more solid, fun game. It would be considered WoW 2.

That's assuming people would actually FIND the spells first, then proceed to teach them to everyone and their dog.

Jesus christ no

It's not just one dungeon. It's an entire mechanic in the game hidden behind a skill.

The guy has found hidden dungeons, solved puzzles, learned new crafting recipes, learned about monsters and even started a hidden raid all because he could read when no one else bothered to learn how to.

No? Tree of Savior does it now. There are items in the game it's taken people a year to learn how to obtain because even though it's easy to data mine the game, things like monster drops and how to obtain items don't need to be stored in the client code. The server handles that, so it's only kept on the server.

Same with things like quest info and the locations of NPCs, monster spawns and so on. The players client doesn't handle this shit so the players client doesn't have this info.

This thread is pushing me back into WoW because ITS THE ONLY THING close to a good MMO.

Good job guys. . . . . I cant bare to level a alt either.

My main Is just well

Nah I reminded myself of WoW.

fuck that

it wont be good

ok I still need another new MMO

>SW:G
Plenty of people have fond memories of that.

They would. And they'd do it ten times faster than any developer could have ever anticipated. Are you new to the internet?

>New
Why are you determined to play games with the least content and the worst business practices?

>handplaced by GMs/randomly generated stuff
>"THEY'D FIND IT ALL IN AN HOUR"
Then take it as a learning experience and lower the spawnrates?
Make more, new spells?

So the monster drops and stuff are stored in a SQL server database. All someone has to do is access it. WoW does the same thing and that doesn't stop people from datamining it.

£10 sub fee a month feels bad

I have £380 left in bank. I cant have WoW eat me up.

I want lineage 2-ish class system
Where you develop your class, and as you play the game you choose from different paths.

Its horribly mutated. All the hopes and ambitions of the first generation MMO were lost or mutated beyond recognition. MMOs were about building virtual worlds for people to live in. Now its all about theme parks and attractions. Instead of building something for yourself, you buy it with real money.

In a way, its better that you millenials never saw the first and second gen MMOs - the ones prior to WoW. which created the third generation MMO era. That way, you don't have to live with disappointment.

This is the problem with the modern MMO player. Nobody recognizes the value of downtime anymore. Everything has to be instant, everything has to be given to everyone, everything has to have sparkles and explosions happening 24/7.

What's wrong with spending time chatting with your growing party as you search for more members? What's wrong with reaching out to the community on your own server as you search for that coveted support player? Where's your sense of adventure when you as a group travel across the land to arrive at a dungeon's door fully united? Where's your patience when someone inevitably fucks up, but instead of being a bitch and complaining that you lost 15 minutes of your life in a failed run, you take the time to help teach them because you've spent the last hour and a half getting to know them as people, and not just the class they play?

Dungeon finder killed the MMO. Instead of remembering peoples names and learning the faces of your own community, you just mindlessly bash your head against the same dungeons over and over again until you get the shiny bracelet of +1 that you've spent 10 hours grinding for. Then you go on to do it again. It's like you don't even know or remember what made that experience fun in the first place.

Here's a tip, It wasn't the game itself.

Back in the day when I used to play I was like 10 Quests shy of the all-quests-done cape. Runescape quests were fucking amazing, they actually had me interested in the lore about the world.

Starting to get a Nostalgia-boner, might need to go re-subscribe for a month and check it out.

Anyone have any opinions of albion online? Someone said it was supposed to be like runescape but with more open world combat and punishing pvp

Maybe I should just try ragnarok online again.

Players are kinda part of the problem too.

mud.co.uk/richard/The Decline of MMOs.pdf
Some kinda related yt video also.
youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64

>Player expectations
Each MMO player has their own idea of what the MMO paradigm involves.
They won’t play if they see things they don’t like; they are also reluctant to play if
they don’t see things they do like. This is irrespective of whether these views are
ultimately self-defeating (Bartle, 2004). The reasons for this are:
>1) Trained by experience
>2) Short-sightedness.
>3) Expanding audience.
> The attempts at inclusiveness in today’s MMOs mean
that many casual-style players (unsurprisingly) treat them casually. They see
them as limited-period activities that have a player half-life of three months.

Not really above any of this myself either.

I'm not sure what the solution to quests should really be. Maybe remove all the filler stuff completely and just focus on big things?

Guild Wars 2 tried removing the question mark quests with the npcs. They did it 100% at first and the maps only had events running in them, but in the end they felt the maps were too empty and added renown hearts to them in official release which basically the same as ! npcs, but you don't need to talk or return to them, only complete a task within a set area.

Events were/are more fun I guess, but in the end those kinda fail because they just repeat no matter the result and people are just gonna go for the most profitable/fast ones.

I'd offer to play WoW with ya. It's at least somewhat bareable with someone to romp around with.

Do it, they actually made firemaking fun to train with a "skilling boss"

ArcheAge had a make-a-class deal. It was pretty fucking nice, I made a flippy ninja-rogue thing. I had insane DPS and was pretty much unkillable.
archeage.gamepedia.com/Classes
But it's shit now.

So people are literally hacking the games servers to obtain this data?

Most websites store shit like user info in some kind of SQL database and it's rare to see people just accessing that stuff.

Maybe Blizzard should invest in some better security.

The problem with the MMORPG genre is that the persistent open world is barely utilized anymore.

As someone who's played many different MMOs, i've seen that most of the genre these days copies the WOW formula without understanding how the WOW formula worked back in the day, as Jeff Kaplan himself said "the world feels more bigger when there is unbeaten content" but instead new MMOs focus on rushing players through an abitrary leveling system to then reach a very flat end game with very rigid 'balance' focused mechanics.

Then you have shit like EVE, which has the most jank gameplay i've ever played, but the core of the game is solid, the persistant open world with thousands of things to do for profit, an economic system that is best done with groups of players, and at the end of it all you can fight over territory with other players leading to some of the best conflicts in MMO history.

Hopefully the next generation of MMOs, Star Citizen, Crowfall, Camalot Unchained, ect, focuses less on the item grind meta and focuses on the community driven metagame.

You can bare to level to 110?

I'd roll a warrior ally. Dungeon spam and legion quest objective share spam to 110 then mythic spam.

I feel down for it.

It's called reverse engineering and people from the company leaking shit.

How do you think Private Servers come to happen?

yeah I know archeage failed.
And damn I fell for the black desert hype too.
fuck me.

Same guy

PVE realm? U horde or ally

I think they need to drop the concept of a MMO and start making games that are instanced, with global meeting zones. Like Guild Wars 1.

I get that it's cute to run into some random faggot out in the middlle of nowhere, but that's where 90% of all the problems of creating a MMO come from, including the world shattering stupidity of respawning enemies and lines to farm nodes, and health sponge bosses that have no mechanics because it's just 200 people pouring shitty looking fx into a static model.

The general premise of an MMO is fine, they're just focusing on the wrong things, in an era where having 100 people in the same game isn't impressive anymore.

I won't disagree. I played STO for quite a while just so I could sail around the galaxy with my crew of half naked cat women.

The solution to quests is a complex one, but two things need to happen.

1. MMOs need to stop being about the destination and more about the journey. If the objective of the game is to quickly hit max level, it doesn't matter what you do, players are going to see quests as a means of gaining experience to progress.
You need to change this, not only from a game design stand point, but you need to change players mind sets too. When they see a quest they shouldn't be thinking "that's exp, I only need to do 3 more to level up". They need to be thinking it'd be fun to go on an adventure.

2. Quests need to be more about quality than quantity. Filler quests are fine, but when all you have is shitty kill/collect filler quests you've got a problem.
Not every quest needs to be an epic adventure which involves slaying a demon lord and saving the world. But to a brand new player killing a bear could be an epic adventure and the quest should be presented as such.

No one is forcing you to use dungeon finder. You can still spam LFG in chat, reach out to your community, and help people who fuck up.

But people these days don't have time for that, they just want to get the stuff over with. This isn't 2001 anymore where people were largely dumb and dial up was still a big deal and games had to be designed around it.

I'm really sick of fantasy MMOs in which its trying to tell an "epic" "story" of an "epic" "war" that determines the fate of the entire world, and you are unique snowflake alongside 1000 other unique snowflake heroes.

All I want to do is roleplay with other people online, occasionally do some boss fights / pvp / random stuff, create an interesting avatar, feel a sense of exploration and challenge, make friends, and not be spoonfed LE EPIC LOOT HOLY SWORD OF A THOUSAND TRUTHS

Fucking World of Darkness Online when?

Not to mention that even in open worlds cunts don't bother interacting with each other anymore. Thank the themepark for it.

How can they reverse engineer something they should not have access to?

If all item drop data is stored in a secure SQL database on the server, the only way to access it for players would be to hack the servers.

As for employees leaking shit, you can stop that by adding terms to their contract of employment. If they break it you can just fire the fuck out of them.

PVE. Horde, mostly.

I did play a bit of Runescape in my Youth. I liked it, but remember most of the content was behind a paywall.
I noticed that there are 3 Runescape generals on vg, which one do you recomend

>It's like DMC
Yeah, I don't want that kind of combat in an MMO. I don't want people standing still pressing "flare" over and over either, but keep the third person mindless, depthless action schlock where it belongs.

>"the world feels more bigger when there is unbeaten content"

There was a Final Fantasy mmo that had a boss where players took more than 12 hours to beat. Some even passed out during the fight.

I wonder if those kind of bosses could work today.

I'm really sick of fantasy MMOs in which its trying to tell an "epic" "story" of an "epic" "war" that determines the fate of the entire world, and you are unique snowflake alongside 1000 other unique snowflake heroes.

All I want to do is roleplay with other people online, occasionally do some boss fights / pvp / random stuff, create an interesting avatar, feel a sense of exploration and challenge, make friends, and not be spoonfed LE EPIC LOOT HOLY SWORD OF A THOUSAND TRUTHS, YOU MUST DESTROY THIS ANCIENT EVIL TO SAVE THE WORLD, UH OH LOOKS LIKE THE WORLD NEEDS SAVING YET AGAIN HEROES

Fucking World of Darkness Online when?

It was way longer than 12 hours
And that's cause they were trying to brute force it instead of figuring out the incredibly obtuse method you were supposed to use to fight it, which involved something like using specific skills within a few seconds after the boss used certain skills. That wasn't figured out until way, way later though.

People who leak shit usually never get caught. The guy who leaked RO's retail server code was never revealed.

Honestly though this discussion is retarded. Storing game data exclusively on the servers will eventually get leaked or hacked. If not then people can put the pieces together if they care enough. PSO's server data was never hacked or leaked but that still didn't stop people from recreating it on github.

If you can get past the graphics, i recommend Oldschool Runescape, the only paywall in that game is the membership required to access the whole game, and even then, you can buy in-game bonds with in-game money. It took me a while as a F2P player to get the money but i eventually did and now i make enough to sustain myself endlessly

Runescape 3's problem is a lot of pay to win shit and the combat that looks like a generic WoW clone, but it still has a lot of focus on quests and the graphics are nice.

If you need a contact in OSRS i'm more than happy to give you my name and offer help

>And damn I fell for the black desert hype too.

Black desert was hyped during the CBT because it was actually challenging to level.

Then they casualized it to hell at release loosing the hype from older players.

MMORPGs suck because the don't have a story behind. They usually put you into a bad designed world with mediocre lore that nobody cares about and then tell you "go, be the hero of your own story" BULLSHIT!

Play Oldschool Runescape, its literally everything you ask

What? The hell are you even trying to say?

I must be the only person who still enjoys WoW on Cred Forums.

Call the mechanics simple if you want, but it all just works, everything from LFG Finder to quests to inventory management to transmog to everything, it all works. There's none of the jankyness and broken shit you find in Chinese ripoff MMOs. The interface is clean and easy to understand. Check out Rift for an MMO with mechanics that make you want to kill yourself.

Call the lore fucked if you want but it's deeper and easier to understand than any other MMO - have you seen the trashpile that is Guild Wars 2 lore? It's also constantly evolving, and if you have a problem with devs fucking with the lore then you should go play a static, singleplayer game.

Call the graphics cartoony if you want but they found a good, simple art style that makes for beautiful fantasy landscapes, and it's accessible to anyone on any machine. And you're not surrounded by loli catgirls trying to tank.

I know it's popular and edgy to hate WoW but god damn if it still isn't the best, most popular MMO you can get. If you don't like that statement, well, that's too bad. Go play Archeage because you can't reach the grapes.

Revelation Online looks good. The beta should be starting soon, so it'll have its own general in /vg/ again.

This is the old one:
>Features
pastebin.com/iYdSau5R

>Classes
pastebin.com/sUKy5yn3

>Class poll!
strawpoll.me/11171226

>Can I play now?
You can if you download and play the Chinese version, which is currently in OB. The first English CB doesn't start until some time in October.

>How do I play the Chinese version?
pastebin.com/nxKkwXHD

CN guild: Cake
Drop your name in the thread if you need an invite, or go to the guild NPC and search for "Cake" in the second tab to send an application.

>Guides
ro.my.com/forum/thread/6242-the-library-links-to-guides

>Character presets for the incompetent
pastebin.com/wUyTFjCD

>Is this game going to be P2W?
My.com listened to the community and removed the items that would have made the English Founder's Packs P2W, but we still haven't seen the cash shop.

Is there any conclusion to be taken?
I mean, are there any (old or new) mmos that can still be enjoyed?

>"THEY'D FIND IT ALL IN AN HOUR"
They actually would. Are you acting naive on purpose? That's exactly what happens any time anyone has ever tried to do any kind of ARG or event. There's absolutely no way a team of 100 or so devs can keep up with over a million fans all simultaneously looking for something.

I wud need to re-sub

gaahh

>No one is forcing you to use dungeon finder. You can still spam LFG in chat, reach out to your community, and help people who fuck up.
you know damn well that's not how it works

as soon as you get to a certain threshhold of people using the dungeon finder social attraction will make it mandatory to use even for people who don't want to

I'm still mad over Tree of Savior.

Runescape falls into the category of mediocre fantasy shit though
After all these years I can't bring myself to play another game with a swords & sorcery (with a steampunk twist!) setting again

if you're going to attempt thordan or sephirot extreme at least watch a guide, there's over 12 minutes of mechanics going on and fucking up one means you will likely kill an other player.

I think there is something we can all agree on. MMOs need to drop that shitty level restriction bullshit.

What I mean is, if a monster is 5 levels higher than you, it's impossible to kill regardless of your stats because the game is programmed so give you a huge penalty to your stats when facing a higher level monster.

This shit pisses me off, but it's so fucking common in games now and clearly done because developers are bad at math and balancing these days.

I miss the days where a skilled player could go to a harder area and play in that area.
These days you got to go to the area designated to your level range because areas lower level give nothing, and areas higher level are impossible.

Shit is gay as fuck.

Well, if you ever find yourself in Wyrmrest Accord, hit up a monk named Brewzen

>Everyones using it so I'm peer pressured to use it
you sound like a massive faggot

this concept woult be actually hella good,
BUT its impossible with all this information circling around the internet.
If there was a game where players would need to actually interact that would be sweet.
Old WoW kinda gave this feeling, but it had technical limitations and it was a huge experiment on blizzard side. Also people were more social.

Now we have the technology, its just that video gaming became a milk cow, and its extremely hard to make a world which is actually interesting. All mmos feel the same single-player-ish queuefests.

>want to play OSRS
>it doesn't let you use your old account, forcing you to make a new one and grind all over again

gaaaay. Why would they murder any chance for nostalgia like that?

Don't play - the game

The game plays for you whilst you browse. fucking great for todays mind numbed by electrical gadgets and social media

MMORPGs need to be treated like RPGs.

Man, we don't even call them MMORPGs anymore because they've got almost nothing in common with RPGs.

People keep saying that they want MMOs to expand past WoW clones but any MMO that isn't a WoW clone flops hard on its face and ends up shutting servers or going P2W F2P.

>Wyrmrest Accord
Will note that.

Horde monk ye?

I don't imagine you down to level a char are ye?

You can go and enjoy any MMO out there really for a few months. You just need to accept the fact that there is no MMO out there that will blow your socks off.

>lack of loli cat girls
>a good thing
kys

MMOs are about telling your own story.

Story heavy MMOs are the blight of the genre.

>After all these years I can't bring myself to play another game with a swords & sorcery (with a steampunk twist!) setting again

What do you mean? what game did you play before?

Horde Monk, yeah. And I have a few lowbies I don't mind remaking.

>I'm oblivious to social mechanics
you sound like a massive idiot

Club penguin is coming to cryengine 4 I heard

Everyone stopped wanting to be the next wow clone and has switched over to being the next moba.

Why does Cred Forums objectively hate this game again? What does it do wrong that other MMOs do right?

Opinions on this game? i started yesterday and finished the "tutorial".Now that i rached the city i'm fucking lost and don't know where to go.

Get out degenerate

Ok cool. I don't think £10 will hurt the wallet.

FF14 was the biggest sinner of this. A lot of the time I end up skipping dialogue from MMOs because its generic trash.

Age of Wushu had some legitimately great MMO ideas (team practice, inter-school combat, dungeons, all the crafting/hobby/sidejob minigames, kidnapping, etc.)

I want that back, man, that game was AMAZING to play compared to a lot of MMOs these days.

Most of them half ass it though. List some of these MMOs you're talking about and I bet most of them are still influenced by WoW and do not do enough to break away from that kind of design.

The other half of the problem is over the years players have been conditioned to think MMOs have to follow a highly specific formula. That formula is basically WoW. When something different comes along they will protest it because it's not like what they've been told MMOs should be.

to be fair, FF14 tells you early on that you are a god among gods. you're not the only special snowflake out there.

Go ahead and shoot me a friend request. My tag is Oreic # 1477

man I'm tired of waiting, it has been so many years. Maybe the charm will never happen again

I don't think people hate it.
Its more like its just so mediocre, it does everything what we have already seen and done, it brings absolutely nothing new to the table. Its good at what it does, but I want more. A lot fucking more.
Also I want to be an adventurer, not a fucking chosen one hero.

I don't hate it, but working hard to get gear and then have the difficulty of getting it removed next patch is pretty fucking annoying. That being said really its just a dungeon grind fest, but I don't really think thats a good or bad thing.

WoW is just a hamster wheel at this point
>grind through expansion, get best loot, pvp until next update
rinse and repeat and pay $15 monthly to do the same shit over and over
if it works for you then great, but its the reason why nobody plays anymore
the progression from 1-60 was the best because it started you out doing simple quests that were pretty easy, then it gave you some options on where to go after you finished the lowbie zones, then you had to concentrate on getting specific items and gear to do dungeons and find groups to do them with, and the game got more challenging and kept you interested.
now it has nowhere left to go so they just keep pumping out the same shit
it'd be better if they just nuked wow and started a new game from scratch and let people go on the journey all over again rather than beating that dead horse into the ground for years
If Blizzard wanted to be daring (which they won't since now they play it %100 safe for maximum $$$) they would end WoW with Legion by having Sargeras show up and unmake the entire world
then just work on a new MMO in a similar vain but with new settings/characters and take out all of the shit that killed WoW in the first place (LFR, handholding quest guides, getting rid of the pvp honor system, etc) Blizzard has the potential to make something quality. I'd be much more interested in playing in a sci-fi setting similar to starcraft

>working hard to get gear and then have the difficulty of getting it removed next patch
if a MMO doesn't do this it dies a painful death
see any horizontal progression MMO

MMOs don't need stories. Quests need stories.

You should be making your own story as you go along, and part of that should be having access to a wide range of quests with a wide range of stories and implications.
If you play as an assassin, I'd expect the quests you take would be based around killing people. An assassin shouldn't be collecting 5 pigs asses and delivering shit to the local merchant.

MMOs unfortunately just don't give you this many options or freedom.

My only wish is for a MMO where you are not the fucking chosen one, just one more adventurer that do whatever he wants with no final boss or quest in sight.

Is that too much to ask? Also I wouldn't mind building my house with a cute lizard waifu.

Cred Forums

HOW IS

MAPLESTORY

Currently playing Dofus Touch on _PC
Having a ton of fun, game is pretty good.
French community is cancer as always, and the prices are so fucking high you have to farm a ton to get good gear.

So then why not make the inn a safe zone?

I know, but for some reason when FF14 does it, I get annoyed more.

Would you play an Overwatch MMO

It does everything right in a Themepark MMO but the main problem I have is the lack of midcore content.

destiny (whatever you want to say about it) isn't a WoW clone and it seems to be doing alright

>Oreic # 1477
Awesome wrote it down.

I wont be long

Are you EU and can I play US?

>I want to be an adventurer
I would play the shit out of any mmo that just let me do quests without some big over the top story. Also Konosuba MMO when?

Destiny isn't a MMO

I'm US, and I'm not sure why you couldn't. I'd double check on it just in case.

literally all of them

Destiny still follows the basic formula of WoW. A quick rush to max level, then you grind until you're ready to raid. Then you raid.

The problem with Destiny is it has no fucking content, so you don't really enter a gear treadmill because once you done the raid you've done everything.

At least the gear doesn't go obsolete immediately like WoW. I farmed out the zeta relic and that weapon lasted me for 8 levels. I had a BiS hunter weapon back in Vanilla WoW and it got replaced by Hellfire Peninsula greens.

It's too bad Trion didn't facilitate the game AT ALL. They just brought over all over XL Games' cashgrabs with no clue of the consequences, and compounded it with terrible choices like introducing Hasla incredibly early.
Plus Korean endless gear improvement MMOs are terrible ideas.
Would've been fun for more than a month otherwise. Maybe only three as the rest of their content was terrible as well (raiding and a dumbfuck castle-siege system with a worthless continent? really?)

need a WoW US licence copy.

All games I know give u a choice of north America or Europe for free.

Is this jewzzard at work again?

tutut

MMORPGs are dead to me because the exploration aspects are dead.

You got a quest? Just look up the location and most time-effective strategies to level up as fast as possible on any game-focused website online.

The only reason why I liked vanilla WoW so much was because these cheat walkthroughs weren't as widely available. The quests that come to mind the most are the shaman totem and warlock pet summon quests. It actually made you feel in-character with your class.

You actually had to make friends and ask people how and where stuff was, party up because the monsters were strong, actively look for guilds which felt like your fucking family.

This is all dead now, of course, because all everyone wants is to get to max level as fast as possible and then wonder why the game is so shit when they have nothing left to do when the skipped most of the game.

Lame, though not surprising. They always have to get their shekels.

I just want Star Wars Galaxies back bros. That's all I want.

SWGEmu Jump To Lightspeed expansion fucking WHEN?

Anyone else remember this?
What went wrong?

>You got a quest? Just look up the location and most time-effective strategies to level up as fast as possible on any game-focused website online.

You don't even need to look shit up now. The games themselves have quest markers that point out everything you need to do.

Most MMOs these days hold your hand through the entire fucking game. You never need to figure out or learn anything for yourself, the game shows and tells you everything.

are you me?

>easy as fuck DF mode
vs
>poopsocking and pissing in bottles hard savage

I wish there were more extreme primals or they made dungeons that you were forced to PF to progress.

this game has too much potential to be good. It's only waiting to get a resurrection from the devs

Mortal Online, but it has a lot of other problems.

yee sorry dude

Subscription fee.

Its world was tiny as fuck and still used diablo's room based system, people pay subs for a persistent open world back in the day, the sub fee for that game was a joke.

I don't hate it, it's just not what I want in an MMO
The gear treadmil is way too blatant and outside of a few bosses the dungeons were all shit. All those really fucking nice dungeon concepts and art assets wasted on single corridors (or even just one fucking room) with some bosses.

I'm not you, user.

We're just every WoW player that had the satisfaction of playing in a hand-holdless world were actual player interaction was important and the game made you immerse as your class.

I still feel like getting Anathema was the greatest achievement in my game life.

>World of Darkness Online
FUCKING THIS
PARADOX PLEASE
I WANT TO RP AS A SEXY VAMPIRE LOLI THAT SHOOTS GUNS AND FIGHTS FUCKING WEREWOLVES AND DEMONS

I never really got to raid during Vanilla, since I only started playing a few months before BC was out, but I'm still glad I went back to get Anathema way later. I stopped playing before Cata.

... Destiny?

I fell for the MMO meme the last time with Gloria Victis and ESO.
>Never again.

World of darkness when release?

Pros:
>Most optimized MMO game client in a fucking decade
>Easy to get into and not too difficult to catch up if you haven't played in awhile
>You have to earn everything in-game, cash shop doesn't influence anything
>Can play multiple classes on a single character
>Consistent content delivery schedule
>Tomestones ensure that you can do any piece of content (dungeons, pvp, world bosses, treasure maps, crafting/gathering, etc) and still get a relevant reward for it
>Lots of effort put into making content for everybody and not just for high end raiders
>Production quality when it comes to music and presentation is top notch

Cons:
>Lack of middleground difficult for PvE content
>PS3 holding the game back from expanding

>raid on Caine, need Malc, Ventru and tanking Gangrel

Will never happen. Good thing it has been cancelled. There has to be something revolutuonary to make it real without turning a game into Second Life with vampires.

>WoW
>hand-holdless
Even in the beginning it was a stripped down Everquest clone for babies who couldn't handle the real thing.

Also
>Weaboo shit all over the genre.

You bring up a good point, now that I think about it.

There's nothing saying a normal adventurer isn't able to accomplish grand feats, but why does it have to be "save the world" in the same way for literally every player and character?

Think about this for a moment - take a KonoSuba world, where you've got people in the towns that will make requests on the board. Adventurers (players) focus mainly on this as that's what it appears to be focusing around. A la Monster Hunter, where the main focus isn't upon saving the world. Not by the devs and not by the players - just a bunch of varying quests, room to roleplay and do a lot of things as groups or solo, and so on. Crafting would be a main way to make money, but money would need to go to not only weapons and gear, but also housing (to rest in/store items, etc), food and drink (general character upkeep) and the like.

However, depending on roleplay and interaction, there's GMs who will pull aside groups of players with on-the-fly content special for their character class or whatnot. i.e. a bunch of assassins need to assassinate a top-level PC because of X, Y and Z, in a certain manner. It's not built into the system already (which prevents people from datamining it and making the secrecy and "chosen one" status irrelevant), it's customized to the players and their characters without putting a "save the world" status on them either. Alternatively, these kinds of events can be player to player as well - a guild is interested in holding a massive feast so they hire out hunters, cooks and brewers to get the quota of food necessary, and so on.

It also (at least as far as I can see) puts less of a priority on the no-lifers who will blow through the game just to get to endgame content, and instead would have more reason to interact with the towns, the NPCs and other players, and so on while still catering to questers and such. If there aren't low-level quests to do then other activities can be done.

>We're just every WoW player that had the satisfaction of playing in a hand-holdless world
lmao
WoW was hand holdy since day one. not as handholdy as it is today, but WoW was a fucking joke compared to Ultima and EQ.

imo Dark Souls works better as an "MMO" than most MMOs on the market today
>no minimap
>fun pvp
>characters feel unique, not bound to class restrictions
>challenging bosses that you can solo or fight with other people
>more experienced players show the newbies what to do
>no "quests"
and all of this with no chat box or friend list (aside from PSN or Steam)
I've had more fun social experiences in Dark Souls with people I can't even talk to than I've had in a mainstream MMO in years

>tfw the old days of player driven communities on ultima online where they had entire villages of people doing shit

and then came EQ, Lineage and the gorillion clones

EQ1 had a ton of problems, WOW fixed those problems, it wasn't because EQ1 was hard, its because EQ1 was pretty poorly designed, camping mobs/spawns and an entire end game that was easily beaten to the point where the top guild in the game went off and made a better game.

Stay mad.

Only mmorpg I liked was Elsword because apart of being a MMO it was an sidescroller rpg with fighting game mechanics. It's a shame that the devs went full retard and they give authorization to third parties to creat 6 gorillions of Game Versions and the player base get dividied and eventually erased. They had like 5 different versions just in Europe.
I have tried playing some "press numbers and wait for cooldowns" mmorpg but I can't enjoy it since I'm not a math autismo.

youtu.be/Q4vrQOlz0mg

If they would have followed the FFXI formula the world would be a lot better off. Not much hand-holding, emphasis on exploration and teamwork, actually pay attention to shit like design and aesthetics instead of generic fantasy universe.

So...what about -ASTA: The War of Tears and Winds-?

make solo play go poof and whammo
you get a good MMO

>and players were genuinely helpful and encouraged each other to make progress
I've found the users in Twin Saga (Open Beta currently) are pretty helpful and encouraging.

it just needs procedural generation!

>look up a map guide
>awful pvp
>people follow the same cookie cutter builds like DEX katana or STR guts
>bosses have obvious scripted attacks that can be simplified by pressing B when they are about to swing
>experienced players troll noobies
>no need for quests when you just grind monsters over and over

aaa its shit

Everquest was clunky as fuck dude, even at the time it was originally released. WoW was easier yes but it definitely made a lot of improvements on how that kind of game actually played.

It's like comparing Wizardry and Dragon Quest. DQ was literally made to be a more accessible version of games like Wizardry and Ultima.

>Try to log back into my account to check it out
>Fagex Guardian doesn't have my computer registered
>Sent verfication email an hour ago, still hasn't shown up
>Try to disable it, disable email still hasn't shown up
I hope these verification emails just take a long time to get sent out and it's not broken or some shit.

any mmo today that removes the option to solo dies fast

I find FFXIV a lot of fun but I can see why people would hate it if you enjoy MMOs like FFXI where it took hours to get one thing done and it felt like an accomplishment when you do.

What MMOs are even coming out soon?

I'm basing this on my experiences playing XIV, Age of Wushu, SMT:Imagine, some WoW, Tera, WildStar, Neverwinter, Star Trek Online, Guild Wars 1 and 2, and many others I dabbled in, as well as Monster Hunter, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and other co-op RPGs.

Especially given how Monster Hunter has been taking off in the West like it's wildfire, perhaps the combat can have more of that kind of strategic, somewhat slower flair to it as well? Though I enjoyed the tab-target action bars in a lot of those games, I vastly still prefer a moveset that requires movement skill and knowledge fo the enemy, rather than just dropping animations with the only difference in my performance from low-level to high-level being the numbers I drop.

Like, when you think about it, what separates a WAR from a PLD in XIV? It's their style of combat, right? WAR and PLD are still very much so tanks, but they function differently in a lot of regards. Yet between two individual WAR, the only main difference is the cross-class skills that they may have - and even then, there's only a handful that a player can really pick from to fit their role.

I'll go a step further as well - why do we need three to five bars of skills that have, in the long run, little difference between them aside from combo timing and effects? Why is it that in the MMO market that this is seen as a good thing, to have such a massive skillset available to the player but no real influential reasoning behind it?

Think about this - take two swordsmen in the aforementioned idea I had in my last post. In a normal MMO, very little differentiates them aside from physical appearance and perhaps the stats of their weapons. But in the lore, there should be some difference between them. One character, depending on stats, may be more clumsy or not as precise as the other. In that case, shouldn't their actual ability be hampered or changed appropirately, to reflect this? Not just with numbers, but (1/2)

In 2016? Nothing good.

the next hyped asian shit mmo aka revelation online

New FF14 expansion revealed in a few weeks

Speaking of Monster Hunter, what little story MH4 had would've made a pretty good questline in an MMO

Twin Saga Open Beta started a few weeks ago, so it's basically out since "no more wipes."
Revelation is footed for this Fall.

>incredibly obtuse
>just use the same 2-hour skill immediately after AV uses it

yet still more fun that 90% of modern MMOs

Because that's boring as hell. Even if it's just an illusion of choice, or busywork, having 5 bars of skills still makes you _feel_ like you're working during combat. GW2 only gives you 5-10 skills depending on which weapons you slot, and the combat in that game is legitimately sleep-inducing because you're stuck doing the same 5-10 shitty moves for 80 levels and a hundred hours.

>why do we need three to five bars of skills that have, in the long run, little difference between them aside from combo timing and effects?
Well it was certainly nice having 3-4 bars full of specific utility shit that actually got used at least occasionally and made the classes actually unique. But most MMOs haven't had anything like that in a longass time.

Is that the one that's basically Blade and Soul?

I wish we could go back to PSO style MMOs where nobody every reached the level cap. The whole game was about collecting rare items to trade with other players to get other rare items/weapons/armor that you can use to make unique character builds. You could play as a Snow Queen+Traps crowd control Racaseal or you could go guns blazing as a charge meseta railgun Racaseal. Both are the same characters/classes but they have different playstyles achieved by itemization.

Fagex account protection is the most retarded shit ever.

It disables/bans/locksout more accounts then it fucking saves.

No thanks, I had enough of that company after that shit they pulled with HW.

Well no one figured it out for a longass time
I only played a little bit of FFXI but I had heard about that boss for a longass time after I stopped playing, I only heard the explanation of what you were ACTUALLY supposed to do for the first time a few months back

Looks like a much better Blade & Soul to be honest. I was actually impressed by how many things it seems to do right.

Of course there's still a high chance a lot of the stuff won't make it to the final game and/or the Western release will botch it with pay 2 play or something like that because Western publishers are cancer.

>Twin Saga
>Aeria
RIP

heavensward was good though

there hasn't been a single one so we don't really know that

>Aeria Ignite
>Rip
What?

I just want a game where I can be a paladin.
Not pussy ass faggot healer shit, but the slightly crazed fanatic who will purge everything what is evil.

youtube.com/watch?v=o98pcY64ZK8

Anyone else hyped for this shit?

Has there been a single MMO that requires groups for most content since FFXI?

Maybe even some Japan-onry MMO like DQX? I dunno too much about that besides the fact that it's never releasing anywhere else.

>ff shit
>top something
top kek I'd say

(2/2) with animations or the like? Further, what about how the player character would actually learn how to perform their ability? It's implausible, to a lot of degrees, that either the player character learns from the same legendary swordsman on how to use a sword like a champ as everyone else in the world, or completely by him/herself.

What about armor as well? What about the making of weapons? What about keeping people fed, clothed, quenched, sheltered? You mean to tell me that this part of the world i wrecked and the people living there are constantly in pain, but there's nothing I can do to help fix this? Nor can anyone else? And the state of the place won't change? That breaks immersion for me a lot, because it indicates that I'm not gonna ever come back to this place once the quests are done (thanks Blade and Soul)

At the end of the day I only want a few things in my MMO gametime.
>I want to be able to actually tell my own story, either via roleplay or in-game actions and capabilities, and not dictated entirely by the devs.
>I want the world to feel alive, active, dangerous, and necessary to stick together within it - or at the very least, a well-prepared solo player can still survive.
>I want to not be the ultimate hero in a game of ultimate heroes. I want to be a relatively normal guy with a few perks and some drawbacks.
>I want genuine differences in my character and another character - whether it's classless, or vast differences on how you develop a class, or whatnot. Just something to make sure that when I start at Lv.1 along with my friend, we'll be able to sport two different characters - or at elast different enough.
>I want to need to roleplay, man - and not always in a cut-throat atmosphere either.
>I want fun crafting that matters to everyday life, man. Like Age of Wushu's cooking, for example

Hell I don't give a damn about the graphics, honestly - go back to as far as Mabinogi or something similar, I don't care.

You can't progress in FFXIVs main story without forced grouping. You can't get very far with crafting without relying on other players.

How?

is pso2 any good? I've been thinking of trying it out..

2.5s

>my com
Even though they will probably rape it at literally every possible point, yes.
>There's even Guild Grinding for constructs that give you stat buffs
>In addition to something like 5 internalized pages of grinding for a variety of stat bonuses

That's not what I'm talking about numbnuts. I'm talking about needing a group to get almost anything done unless you have some specific bullshit setup that can cheese your way through certain things solo.

Hows the character customization?

No, because it's going to be exactly like Blade and Soul, which was exactly like Terra, which was exactly like Aion, which was exactly like Lineage. Soulless Korean grindfests are just bland to play. Even though the world design in this game looks amazing, I already feel like I've dumped 60 hours into it because it looks like every other damn MMO that's come out in the last 15 years.

blade and soul+Aion=Revelashit online

>still no mmo as good as this one
sigh....

PSO2 is in no way similar to PSO other than the name of some stuff.

I think it ruins everything about the original PSO but that's just me, your opinions may differ.

>Kritika

no english version?

game?

webm unrelated?

>EQ endgame was easily beaten
>thinks WoW was any different

Please stop posting immediately.

Vindictus
webm related
But this is an mmo thread.

Now that you mention it, you're completely right. I guess that's part of what made GW2 feel terrible with combat for a while. Though I'm not a big fan of "feeling" like I'm doing work by _just_ clicking more buttons than a Steel Batallion control board. I admit I don't know what the balance is for that against just pure action combat, but I know I'd rather do action combat _because_ of the loads of skills that I need to memorize for very little payoff, it feels like.

Admittedly, I'm a fan of PSO2/Vindictus/MonHun combat these days, but it's mainly because that makes me feel like i'm doing more work than just flinging skills like they're snowballs at a target. But this could very well just be a personal preference.

Utility shit that only gets used once or twice then just feels like a context-sensitive "quest item" gimmick to me, which fucking sucks. If I'm a hunter, for example, I shouldn't have to click on hunter-related skills only a few times in a long amount of time to get through a skill-check gate.

You need a group to get almost anything done in FF14. You can't solo dungeons that are your level, you need to group up to unlock said dungeons and content, you can't specialize craft everything by yourself, you have to rely on other players just to make it to the endgame.

MMOs need to be like this.

Hitting the level cap shouldn't be your primary goal, infact, it shouldn't even be a goal of any importance. Players should be enjoying the game that they play, and not just rushing to hit max level.

Not that guy, and I don't know what much about EQ honestly, but Naxxramas in WoW was some serious fucking shit. Barely anyone cleared it when it was current content. The Four Horsemen were a fucking difficulty spike beyond anything else in the game before or after that.

HW might have been good but I lost all motivation to continue after those shitty fucking 100 fetch quests between ARR and HW.

Themepark MMOs are simply outdated concept now, even WoW falters now.

Shit like DayZ, Rust, Ark and Minecraft made shitload of dosh, don't require a subscription and aren't considered MMOs by mainstream, even though they're probably closer to that term than modern WoW. Every other game has a pop-in multiplayer, MMOs simply can't compete in terms of gameplay with what feels like a classic game.

I've played FF14 retard, you can stop lying. You never need to group up for anything but dungeons and you can do all the crafting yourself if you're bored/crazy/rich enough.

For fuck's sake a lot of the mini-instances the story sends you into, you're not even allowed to bring your party members in even if you're on the exact same part of the story. It's shit.

>hey this actually looks goo-
>korean characters
nope

I'm sorry you feel that way.

>being a westaboo

end yourself

I wish I could play a game like that before I die

haven and hearth, logging out isn't even a defense if someone has the scent of your boipucci

What we need is a MMO designed by someone who hasn't played a MMO before and has no preconceived notions of what a MMO should or shouldn't be.

Basically, we need the genre to die for a decade or two so it can be reborn as something hopefully newer and better than the shit we've got now.

>Can't unlock other content without progressing through main story
>Need to beat dungeons to progress in main story
>Can't solo dungeons unless you're 10+ levels ahead and run unsync mode (which can't be used for main story related quests)

You still need to group up to get anything done you retard. Also, spec crafts exist and are costly as fuck. Where are you going to get the Gil to change specs and do all of them by yourself? Sell items to other players you have to rely on?

>gook mmos
>good
you never learn, do you?

It's a shame the game is developed by lazy ass retards. All that potential being wasted by two incompetent fucks who wont significantly alter or change the game because their tiny ass community wouldn't stand for it.

Again, not what I was talking about, so I guess you're underage and retarded since you clearly have no idea what MMOs used to be like.

Are you implying western mmos are good or fun?

I'd agree with you, but Vindi isn't an MMO

You said you don't have to group up in FFXIV to progress, you obviously do.

You got BTFO'd and now you're backpeddling.

It's simple. Have a combat system where your stronger attacks cost energy, and your weaker attacks restore it. Champions Online did something similar (The combat system in that game is highly underrated, in my opinion) with Equilibrium where it's only built up through your auto-attacks, but I would take it even further and balance every skill around an energy-based give and take.

I'd love to get back into it but the dl is too large my poor satellite internet i'd have to wait over night and by then i'd probably realize i dont want to play it.

I thought it was pretty fun, played in the beta before release. Was the only one out of my 15 man gamer group that was playing it at the time.

the "crafting" system wasn't very good. If they've changed it to something better I'd consider going back.

also:
Fuck those jews for putting Dragonborn behind a pay wall.

WOW was different.

EQ1 was a cake walk compared to AQ40, Naxx, hell even BWL, and we're talking 3 expansions into EQ1

Not defending current WOW though, shits too easy
>Inb4 mythic fags

>but Naxxramas in WoW was some serious fucking shit.
Because it was overtuned, and Alex even admitted that years later in an interview during WotLK.

God damn people, one of the only reasons classic raiding was difficult was due to having to have 40 fucking people not fuck things up. Farming for Resist gear and pots isn't challenging, and stop acting like you all even did that shit either.

>press left mouse button mindlessly

i hate you now, and i hated you in every thread before this one.

The sandbox genre is dead but the themepark genre is more than alive than ever. WoW still taking in millions of dollars, FFXIV still making most of Square Enixs money and single handily funding FFXV, and SWTOR if I can recall is still printing money despite it being a shit game.

Something like the Yakuza/Ryu ga Gotoku game series' Heat moves? Yeah, I'd be down for that. It'd bring a bit of fighting games into it as well with such meter usage, but that's just me.

ikr

What if it is about ranking? The least used spell (even if it was used 6 millions time) would be the best one, and the worst would be the most used one.
For example, there are 1000 spells.
The least used no.1000 in the ranking does 10000 damage. The spells around the position number 500 does 300 damage. The ones near the top 1 only does 10 damage.

I've always said MMOs were dead ironically in the past as a meme, but after Archeage and Black Desert, I'm humble now.

If I had people to play with I would get back into it but it just isn't that fun solo.

>press 1-9 mindlessley
See, I can make incorrect statements too.

why hasn't anyone actually tried to improve on vindictus formula? have instanced lobbies that allow combat thats not the usual dogshit where you just press button 1-10 in a row. and good design instead of waifu gookshit. and then have a big hub city where people sit around and trade shit like in ro prontera.

>Vindi isn't an MMO
STFU samefag. You say this every single time. Instance base, this and that, etc. Shut the fuck up.

At least say something new. everytime you have this conversation you're just repeating yourself over and over. got damn.

The only idea guys being employed are those with great ideas to siphon money from consumers. Fuck you.

What do you expect, you're basing your opinions on korean grinders, which are designed for the korean market, they can only play 4 hours a day.

Proper MMOs have long been dead due to the lack of persistence in the persistent world and a larger focus on instanced dungeon item grinds like Korean Grinders.

It's an MO if anything. Most of the games posted in this thread aren't 'MMOs'.

I mean if Vindi is an mmo, MonHun is an mmo

Idk about those games but at least on FF14 tons of people still play. Party Finder is lit up at night on Leviathan, Duty Finder takes no longer than 5 mins even for DPS, and Limsa Lominsa is so packed that it lags my gaming PC trying to render all the characters on screen.

Its not an MMO

If it has less players in an instance then your average multiplayer game then its definitely not an MMO, its more of a monster hunter clone then an MMO.

Not saying Vindictus isn't a MMO. But MMOs really need to drop the instanced content for everything.

Like seriously, it's a multiplayer game. Stop making everything instanced and let people play together.

He's right, though. Vindi isn't and MMO. MMO's are always open world, and vindi is not.

I really wish it was open world. God damn it'd have been so much better.

>If it has less players in an instance then your average multiplayer game then its definitely not an MMO
>4
>6
>10
>16
Those are pretty average numbers for other multiplayer games

Guild Wars 2 is the best it's ever been right now. It's finally starting to feel like a true successor to Guild Wars 1.

The average online multiplayer game is 16-32 players.

>Do we want to appeal to the RO crowd because our game is immensely hyped on being "RO with better graphics"?
>Or do we want to appeal to the offline MMO solo questing autist crowd?
>FUCK IT LET'S DO A HALF ASSED ATTEMPT AT MIXING THE TWO SO NOBODY LIKES IT

>It's finally starting to feel like a true successor to Guild Wars 1.
How?

Instances are solutions to technical limitations and to prevent griefing.

Before instances, dungeons used to be out in the open world and they were cluttered with people trying to kill the same shit and early pulling crap to troll other parties. It also caused unwanted world server lag that made the game shitty to play.

Have they actually fixed the fucking servers when they come out with an update, or is it still ungodly unbearable?

Also the game is empty around mid-level last time I played. Kinda like DFO is right now.

why would u tell a lie like that user

Then WoW isn't an MMO? I don't remember 16-32 players in an instance in WoW

those two were my turning points too.
I wanted a huge as fuck impact from legion too, maybe my expectations were astronomical, but come the fuck on, we have barely any technical limitations and video gaming is not a niche thing anymore, and of course my expectations will be high after that God awful abomination what WoD was.

As for Legion I wanted to try it but from what I heard its like a lukewarm water, not bad, but far from good either its like a step into the right direction but its still just a step and nothing more, which is not enough, and still has WoD's traits.

>vindictus is getting a private server

GUYS

Servers are fine. As for leveling up it's always random. Sometimes you can get parties and sometimes its dead as fuck.

Just came to Cred Forums asking about this game and saw this thread, perfect timing.

Literally installing as we speak, what am I in for? And what's a fun healer class that can also solo content easy?

>nice looking combat

Is the game dead? What happened?

>I don't remember 16-32 players in an instance in WoW
40 in classic raids, 80 in AV and other bigger BGs

EQ1 was not a good example, EQ1 was a very tiny game world and was very instanced, those instances were just shared by everyone on the server, so it made the problem worse, especially dungeon zones.

I know you don't, go back to praising MOP.

40 players to a raid you fucking incredible moron.
Nevermind that the game is primarily open world and many times that number can play at once in that world. A MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER GAME, if you will.

Stop. I refuse to have this debate for the thousandth time. I don't care what Vindi is, just say something else about the game. Fucking bamboos.

I really want to like the charr but whoever made their heavy and light armor models needs to be shot. The heavy armor is stretched to hell and the pauldrons are ripped straight from WoW, and the light armor looks so fucking dumb that I'm honestly shocked they approved any of it. Medium armor looks good, but I already have an engineer, hunter and thief.

Because that would require effort. The only reason Vindi is still alive is because idiot people (like me) will log in every now and then to drop $30 on some limited edition outfit. It's the ultimate campfire waifu simulator. It's also fucking shit.

does it need it? why?i reinstalled a couple days ago to play for 2 hours but got bored and the town was totally empty. i was alone. on EU at least

Server lag was never an issue and instances don't decrease the amount of stress on a server.

The only thing instances did was segregate players to their own little copy of the world. In a multiplayer game I feel this, especially when it's done as often as it is in MMOs now, is not a good thing.

idk. in last, year? or so they've changed a quiet a bit. They just pushed out a new combat system not even 3 or 4 days ago. they've added seige mechanics and seige equipment.

just implemented a kingdom system to earn points off of fuck bois. from the 2d haven they've at least doubled the amount of content.

you are right though, the game is widely held back by its community of 30 or so hardcore players that want everything to stay the same.

There is actual difficult end game content that can wipe a skilled experienced party on any run. Guild missions and activities are fully fledged out, the guild halls are even better than they were in GW1 (though there needs to be more of them) and WvW has finally gotten some love and developed its own real community. Most importantly though, the plot is going back to its roots. The most recent update goes to the Fire Island Chain, the Mursaat and Primordus are back, everything is falling into place and feeling like Guild Wars again.
Not remotely a lie.

Why would anyone play on a private server? Do you have any idea how much time and money people have invested into their official characters?

Season 2 directer employed a system that accidentaly banned a bunch of players by thinking they were bots

GUYS

AGE OF WUSHU

IT'S STILL ACTIVE

WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE IT LEFT STEAM LIKE 4 YEARS AGO, I'M CHECKING THE FORUMS AND I CAN'T FIND THE DIFFERENC

I wasn't talking about EQ1
MMOs and even MUDs had the same problem before and after Instances become mainstream in online persistent world game design.

>eastern community is nothing but scripted bots

wew

If you don't want this debate stop bringing up your non MMO in an MMO thread.

Please shut up, you don't even know what you're talking about. Fucking Cred Forums armchair game developers like you make me angry.

HUBMOs are fine but they're not MMOs.

Most of those features you mentioned basically amount to fucking nothing though.

They keep changing combat because they can't design a good combat system for shit.

The siege mechanics are laughably bad and have already gone through a bunch of changes with people just saying they flat out suck.

Kingdoms add nothing to the game right now.

Even with the new stuff they added in the 3D version, they've done almost nothing with it. They added tons of varieties of wood, stone and ore. It's all visual shit only with no real purpose. The new animals they added end up being a few shitty items with no real use.

They need to pull their finger out of their asses and actually start adding content of some size and substance.

Oh fug if they scale down some of the raids for solo/2 man play and let you wear inner pantsu for free itll be the only version to play.

It was going so well until
>>HOWEVER, that means the spell weakens with every single person that knows it

That sounds horrendously lame.

I really can't find any fault with FFXIV, it doesn't anything special but it's not bad either.

Grand Exchange killed everything for me in Oldscape.
It makes everything so cheap, fast, and easy to attain, now, while making the world feel a little emptier, because everyone is at the GE.

Korean MMOs are dead, embrace the Japanese MMO.

Dont remember the exact name but dragon knight has a dedicated healing tree. Cloth armor is technically better for healing since you get bonuses to mana regen but I prefered to use heavy armor on my healer for survivability.

I've been playing MMOs since before you were born. I was playing MMOs when it cost $5.99 an hour to play them.

A lack of instances never resulted in server lag. Whether you have 10 people in one location or 10 people in 5 locations, it doesn't mean shit. It's still 10 people connected to the server and the strain on said server is still the same (if anything, multiple instances would put more strain on a server).

Having no instances also brought a shit load to games that MMOs these days lack. Specifically competition. You don't have to compete with people anymore because you get your own little copy of the world. This has a bunch of knock on effects like there being no truly rare items and a trash economy with no real importance or significance in the game and so on.

ESO is the best mmo on the market
Prove me wrong

whats the point of playing any mmo if I can't be a succubus?

>that retarded animation
>that stupid looking armor
>those actual sticks for arms

Korens have downs on a level higher than most sentient beings.
Tired of uguu kawaii girls being warriors of renown. Atleast do some magic asspull so it makes sense that they can compete with literal slabs of muscle.

(you)

Why do people always want to ignore the first M in MMORPG?
>There is actual difficult end game content that can wipe a skilled experienced party on any run
Is there actual tanking in the game or does everything still run around like a fucking mess of a game it was 2 years ago? Does everyone still use the same fucking gear type and zerg everything down?

So you're a grown old man on a video game board aimed for underaged kids.

What are you doing with your life fàm?

It's been pretty boring for a while now
It was much better when it only had Lann, Fiona, and Evie
They ruined Fiona's face
It's not Mabinogi which is actually a mmo

>M M O R P G
>2 0 1 6
skinner box addicts

There are magic asspulls

Im serious

>tfw no sci-fi MMO where you can conquer planets with massive fleets, orbital bombardments, giant mechs, and logistics fleets of crafters and explorers to improve your weapons and create more cool shit

but you can

Legion is actually pretty good. Is it vanilla/TBC levels of awesome? No, but it's the best we've had in years.

one thing you can't deny is that they do make games graphically superior to just about anything in the west at a significantly faster rate. (said game example excluded)

just imagine if someone with an actual brain was directing those gooks. you could easily make a game better looking than any western game in a few months at 1/10th cost.

>Is the genre dead?
nah user, I'm sure we'll get the next wow killer soon!
yes

You're actually right.

It's still a shit game, and it's still themepark as fuck. But it does a lot of things well and though it didn't do enough to escape the themepark model, it at least tried.

In particular I like the class system and how you get to build your character and aren't forced into one role just because of your class choice.
I also like how you can basically equip anything and there is no best set for you, and each build type has several viable equipment sets each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Another thing I like is how there is tons of dungeons in the game that are more than just a bunch of small rooms with encounters inside until you meet a boss at the end. Not only are many of these open world dungeons, but they got shit like puzzles and depending on your build there are multiple ways of handling them (someone with locking can just pick a lock to proceed, someone without it has to find a key to open the door).

It's still not good, but it's a step in the right direction. A small step.

kool shit

but that gook is uglier than sin

Will Black Desert be worth playing when it goes F2P?

Didn't that already happen with that fatass ROBOT HOOKERS guy?

Legion sucks ass

Class hall lockouts and AP grind the expansion, hope you like making alts because you gotta sit through all that.

do not bully Arisha

Who /puzzlepirates/ here?
Still one of my favourite games, even if the population, playerbase and economy is completely fucked.

Hammer fiona does have some weird animations, but sword is cool. Also all characters have muscle, height and body weight sliders. My fiona is bigger than most men characters, except giga nigga Karok and Guts lookalike Hurk.

>MMORPGs 5-10 years ago
Just setup the game and play to your heart's content

>MMORPGs nowadays
Ok let's look up the best XP/HR for this skill, and then lets look up the monster with the best drops and farm those for 10 hours straight

The playerbase is the problem, they play the game like its a fucking race

Character progression is objectively a good thing. I do agree it's pretty unfriendly for alts though.

It's already F2P in Russia and Korea.

Will asians EVER
E
V
E
R
get asses right? Show me ONE (1) video game made by asians that actually has decent looking ass.

The giggest of nigas

Reminder that Destiny is the best MMORPG on the market right now.

>graphically superior
>yet they run like aids induced soysauce

yeah they look good, too bad they generally have nothing aside from that put into the games. Along with the few "ye shall not fucking do in this day an age in MMOrpg sins" they commit on the reg.
>genderlocking
>shit outfits
>males never being manly(90% fucboi rate)
>p2w issues always

That game is dead sadly i doubt they can do anything about it, the newest addition (KH) is nice and all, but i think that's the only true new piece of content that game ever had.

Now it is all "gold box of the month" shit

Should I play FFXIV on PS4 Pro

It's because asian women have flat chests and flat asses. They are genetic scum.

lol

I swear they made adjustments to Arisha before sending her to NA, she doesn't look maximum overgook in the english version.

It doesn't help that the developers have designed MMOs to be linear grinds, if you want to play with anyone you have to get to end game these days.

The few exceptions to this rule are 13+ years old and still going strong.

>actually playing vindicks
>not just luring the boss between two hutts and letting the physics spaz out and instakill the boss from the two hutts repeatedly collide grinding into the boss

I've recently start exploring new job opportunities. How much does belthesda pay you to come here? or 3rd party marketing firm, which ever. And does it come with health benefits and paid leave?

Yeah, but I'll make fun of you if you do
It's easy to spot console players

Are there any good PVP MMORPG's atm?

AA is not good

>tfw just got done 2 manning all of season 1 with a friend

Siglint and Elchulus can suck my dick, I'm never fighting them with two people again.

I'm serious.
I heard that they are gonna drop PS3 support and make a update for 60FPS and better graphics on PS4 Pro. Sounds pretty neat and I can get the console for $250 because Employees discount.

Eh I wasn't overly fond of the kraken. I find it kind of dull, and it's high payouts has made it even harder to do something fun like CI, HS or atlantis.

But yeah, they're milking it dry. All this LE whoring isn't just shitty 'content' but it also struck a blow to the tailoring and furnishing industries.

I just want an addition that impacts the interaction between people. Not another 'mystery box' or pseudo raid.

Yeah its all cool and getting even more out of the themepark model when housing comes and now that dueling tournaments are a thing. I just hope they add the thievery to the housing in some way. Also the pvp in general is getting better with every update now thst they started caring more about it.

>Is there actual tanking in the game or does everything still run around like a fucking mess of a game it was 2 years ago?
It's still active tanking. As in, you can't just stand in front of the mob and use defensive cooldowns. You have to actively pop blocks, reflects, and everyone will still have to dodge certain powerful attacks.
>Does everyone still use the same fucking gear type and zerg everything down?
No, the roles are more defined. You can't just go full berserker gear and spam DPS because the enemies are too tanky now and some of their attacks are impossible to avoid, so you need defense and healing.

WoWfags will defend this

I think the biggest problem with MMO's is the developers not properly scaling their games for players. They pretty much shoot for the moon in anticipated player amounts instead of doing smart scaling. No one wants to wait 2 hours to queue for a raid because you have the players needed too high or don't allow for cross server instancing...Another problem is having party only content, yeah you should encourage people to get their friends on their game but you shouldn't not let a player access content just because they cant meet up with their friends to play at the moment. Maps are a problem when you design them for epic high player numbers and then don't change anything when the population shrinks.

>It's still active tanking.
So everything just runs around and does whatever the fuck it wants, okay.

I dont get payed. Maybe ask those wow: legions of shills or the ff a realm refilled with shills dudes.

>I keep posting ugly gooks and no one can stop me

Nigger calm the fuck down, your shitty zipperhead waifu is shit.

ITT: idiots trying to make MMOs not MMOs

Only board on Cred Forums that I would trust making an MMO would be /k/ or /tg/.

All of you are retarded.

>You will never have a good adventure with your friends in your lifetime anymore
I don't even care about the complicated stuff, i just want a comfy game.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐FFXIV is the best MMO you can play right now⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

>My fiona is bigger than most men characters

isn't one of those a fucboi ranger essentially?
Along with again your playing a korean game so half the men have to be just as feminine as the women bruh.

What? Not at all
>Guardian aggros boss
>Puts down wall to reflect its attacks
>Pops 3-4 blocks in a row to negate further attacks
>Pops party wide shield and switches back in rotation
>Warrior jumps up to take aggro and block more attacks
>Boss uses a party breaker skill that can't be blocked, all party members then have to dodge through the attack at the right time
>Guardian's cooldowns are back up, he takes aggro again

It's still tanking but it's not braindead and it punishes players who can't react.

>mfw SWTOR actually gave me hundreds of hours of great entertainment after it went free2play

youtu.be/F5MoBb8-75E?t=3m48s

I don't know how the game was when it came out (TORTANIC and all) but it's a really well done Bioware RPG by now

So what keeps the mobs on you in the first place then?

Sounds to me it's more of an issue of playing shit MMO's.

try 2b2t
just kidding it's a burning ruin of it's former self

>boring holy trinity
>no PvP

woah....

Kai aint no fuckboi, hes a manly man with an exploding crossbow gun that kicks bosses in their stupid fucking faces. Lann is sorta a fuckboi, but that depends on how you make him look. Sylus is a fuckboi though, aint nothing you can do to make him any less of a little bitch.

EVE Online is so close to being this but they are dedicated to making it a boring sandbox instead. It would take so little work to make the game actually good.

can certainly be done, make spawn zones huge, add a map so you can see what you explored and where the center of the map is(but not what is there). Heck rust might do this already and if not it should be easy to mod it to do that.

Games need in depth sub classes, fuck main classes they are done and dusted + should be slow as hell to level. Monsters should just drop monster related materials.

Think subclass of Knight only available after being a squire, and one of the 5 main occupations people choose to improve between levels 20-30. All the Knight class quests are bound to the story on raising nobility, and your choices eventually lead to which nation you will do the questline for 30-40 in war stories / invading other places. All this shit is relevant since it leads to the ultimate max level sandbox experience of constant PvP, where this time you will create Knight based quests if you are assigned to that current City.

it's the exact same thing if you aren't interested in everquest clones with raiding and small scale pvp in instances as "endgame content"

they're just taking it away from the chinese
just like they tried to take away diablo 2 trading from d2jsp and failed miserably with that shitstorm of a game known as d3

This is exactly what I want.
This literally is exactly what I want, man.

Hell I'll take this in just a singleplayer RPG as well, man.

>waifu MMO/10

> Skills means absolutely nothing
> Can't come up with absolutely broken and personalized build to allow you to carry everyone else trough dungeons
shit game desu
and the combat isn't really proper combat

I wish they would just remove the combat TSW and let me play the story by itself.

Anyone here played LOTRO years ago (~8 years) when it was still subscribtion based? You remember the PVP area? Was fun to fuck shit up in a xbox huge steahlthy warg pack, always massive armies clashing with rogue stealth packs thieves and wargs trying to do shit on the side. fun stuff

if it's big enough, people will jsut datamine your shit and then you're done.