THE GREAT DEBATE

THE GREAT DEBATE

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right.

TTYD

It's not a debate. Both are among the greatest games ever made but PM64 has a slight edge over TTYD for being more consistent in quality, having no tedious backtracking segments every chapter, etc. Replaying TTYD can be a chore nearly all the way through, while replaying PM64 is only boring during the hour-long intro before chapter 1 - then it's great all the way through.

Haven't finished The Thousand Year Door yet, but I like them about the same.

I like ttyd more but both are great

Uh

I can't choose but I haven't played either in a while

I should play one after the other and see which is ultimately more satisfying

Thousand Year Door because it's the one I played

I like TTYD's combat more but I feel like PM is better in everything else, especially areas and partners.

I would love to buy TTYD but there's no way for me to do it. Good old Nintendo.

TTYD is more memorable with better music and tone and characters and areas and story and battles and dynamic between you and the cast of characters but I'd say PM is more comfy.

TTYD, but they're both so close either choice is valid.

Paper Mario 64. I'm kinda surprised so many people preferred ttyd, I thought it was pretty mediocre with a couple of awful parts.

PM64 is much better overall in my opinion.

there might be a TTYD HD (yeah, might)

>Not including the best of the series
Pleb

...

Perhaps it's more memorable because you played it more.

Thousand Year Door is better Mechanically overall as far as the combat goes. The Sidekicks have more personality too.
Paper Mario 64 may be the better game overall though now that I think about it. I do have the bias of playing PM64 on the N64 but only playing TTYD on an emulator though.

where's color splash?

I've played both once but I did play TTYD more recently.

that and I was fucking obsessed with Vivian's cock

64 is better in terms of 'how comfy it is', and its sound track is better. Major issue comes in some of its level design, namely flower fields, but this is just my personal gripe with it, I don't think anyone else has this problem with it.

TTYD is better in terms of gameplay, though it sacrifices some of the 'comfy' aspects of 64. Its soundtrack is still pretty good. Major issue is the backtracking involved.

64

TTYD is a piece of shit to go through chapter 2 till the first half of chapter 4 on repeat playthroughs

>TTYD
>better music

The N64 was a defining part of my childhood and the Gamecube was just this nightmare box that wouldn't stop fucking up my favorite franchises with boring games I hated like Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker

And I still think TTYD was the better game. Intelligent Systems was on fire that gen

When I replay TTYD it feels like a chore at some parts.

When I replay PM64 I never get sick of it and it's great the entire way through. Plus its sense of adventure and being on a quest better than most RPGs in general.

TTYD had better battling mechanics, but I thought it was somewhat wasted on fighting recycled enemies which took up most of the bestiary.

There aren't even original enemies in the snow level. There's just a blue Puff and a blue Piranha Plant, both of which you faced numerous times before only in different palettes.

64 is a better RPG.

TTYD is a better "experience."

I prefer 64 though. It's replayability trumps TTYD's by a mile.

this

*There aren't any

I prefer the original in most aspects but I love the sequel and how creative they got with it.

I don't give a shit anymore.

>there are people here that don't think 64 is the best one, despite also being the first one

hell, super paper mario is better than ttyd

When I play TTYD, I just think of PM64 instead.

Shut the fuck up

Paper Mario is a far more consistent game that never dips in quality as hard as TTYD dips in quality. Not only that, TTYD's highs never reach Paper Mario's lows.

64

TTYD was decent but I really forgot most of it when I played it back in the day (I just remember there was alot of talking in the story) I really liked the whole crowd system though.

Super was better than either

>Not only that, TTYD's highs never reach Paper Mario's lows.

I'm sure there are a lot of better TTYD levels than Flowers Fields.

>we'll never get a pm64 remaster with added sidequests and post game like a '64 pit of trials and TTYDs combat

Not really. I think Flower Fields is fine. Never understood the hate for it.

Glitzville is only great on the first playthrough, but it really drags the pace of the game down on subsequent playthroughs. All of the other "good" parts of TTYD are weighed down by the bad chapters around them and aren't good enough to make up for those bad chapters.

>trusting Nu-Nintendo with that

Might as well just emulate with the texture pack.

>Trying to silence the truth.

Nigger what. Glitz pit is great every single time. Highlight for sure. It also has a post game, which the original doesn't have in any form. Sure, it was just a list of sidequests that were mostly fetch quests, and the Pit of Trials, but still, it was there.

Flower Fields is the Boggly Woods of 64

Still mad that Fed Force bombed, Tanabe?

The original is far superior.

Can anyone tell me how to make autistic infographs like the one ACfag uses? Those would be fantastic for me.

You will never play a paper mario game like these two for the first time ever again

So that Paper Mario 64 remaster is looking like complete garbage, huh?

TTYD has better gameplay, partners, story, music
PM64 has better setting and atmosphere

Paper Mario 64, just cause
>Muh childhood
Fucking loved that game..

Jesus.

The fucker can't even figure out AA?

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm one of the devs working on one of the PM spiritual successors. What would you guys like to see in something like that? It'd benefit me and bug user a lot. Here's his btw
paperbugdev.tumblr.com/

>Boggly woods is boring as fuck
>Twilight town is backtrack: the chapter
>Getting to the moon is backtrack : the chapter 2

PM64 is the better game but ttyd has the best chapter overall

That's not the problem in that screenshot.

Better music.
youtube.com/watch?v=-GI1x_YI4Fw

Well yeah. His headcanon bullshit is just the icing on the shit cake.

Boggly Woods is far, far, FAR worse than Flower Fields. Flower Fields is even much better than Excess Express.

>posting one of the shittiest tracks

What does everyone think of Color Splash so far?

Why do people hate Boggly Woods so much?

I don't want a remaster of either game at this point, it's all too clear that they'd manage to butcher the games completely.

>Boggly Woods is far, far, FAR worse than Flower Fields
Agreed


>Flower Fields is even much better than Excess Express.

Now lets not go too far

>posting his shitty taste

>glitz pit is great every single time

it was only great the first time, it's a fucking drag fighting the same piece of shit enemies

>flower fields is boggly woods of 64

not even fucking close, flower fields is leagues ahead of BW. Even on your first go, there is far less bullshit and on repeat playthroughs the backtracking can be fixed (something TTYD severely needed) by having a half empty inventory

This. Also smrpg.

TTYD is comfy the fuck you on about
>Dat Train
>Poshley Heights
>Glitzville
Rogueport, even fucking Twilight Town is comfy

It's a draw.

If Blockbuster was still a thing, it would be worth a rental. Although, they probably wouldn't be stocking Wii U games even if it was. I compare it to Yoshi Story on the fun meter.

Nope.
youtube.com/watch?v=dxKDKlUWifk

You seriously can't be that paranoid.

I can understand the hate for Twilight Trail and General White but not Boggly Woods.

I don't know, I like the woods, but I dislike the tree.

The general sentiment seems to be that it's at least better than Sticker Star, but still pretty shit.

the aesthetics of TTYD don't come close to those of 64 despite areas

Everyone who has played it loves it.

So not fun at all but newest thing you can play that is mario related.

Thats a good track but it cant hold a candle to any of the Boss battle themes in TTYD
youtube.com/watch?v=N-lmaPnnD4g

Excess Express is awful. It lifts the murder mystery directly from the original Paper Mario, but the thing is that the murder mystery was just a cute little 5-minute diversion in Paper Mario. Excess Express stretches that wafer thin premise to an entire chapter's length and there's never any payoff. Smorg is an absolutely shitty boss and Poshley Heights is two screens of yet another grassy town. Then you enter a building and do a lot of paper gimmick flying just to get one of the stars you've been looking for.

It's excellent but different, in a way that people vying for a TTYD sequel will try to avoid acknowledging its quality.

it just dragged on, it's weird because compared to the key and twilight town it doesn't have that much backtracking, but a lot of people just hate managing the punis and i personally hated the bullshit piranha plants that kept slowing me down when I knew i had all the puni bullshit to deal with later on in the level. it was like trudging through a part you don't like to get to a part that you hate.

>he didn't use the two rooms with blue pipe shortcuts to every level

baka

Yes they can.
youtu.be/_Qp-cGWavJU

>don't get to properly play the game until it gives you action commands an hour in
please refrain

It always has. It's not a remaster, it's a modernization. If he had any talent or brains he would use the designs from Paper Mario.

this, 64's sprites were amazing. i loved all the weird non-canon mario shit that was in there too, granted TTYD had more than its fair share of it as well, i just liked the sprites look more.

I like the first one more but I thought the 2nd one was a good sequel.

Am I alone here?

Goddamnit Francis, stop shitposting on image boards and do something with your life.

Why not both?
youtu.be/wuLoSZ7tvEg

>I compare it to Yoshi Story on the fun meter
Ouch. I remember that disappointment

youtube.com/watch?v=mnS8kXfj9jE Gotta try a little harder than that.

Which game had the better chapter:
>1
>2
>3
>4
>5
>6
>7
>8

it's only excellent because expectations are so low, even people who are having fun with it admit the battle system is annoying and gets tired after about a half hour of play. Game looks great and the music is really, really good, but the gameplay is still just shitter star with a new coat of paint.

After replaying both recently, I think TTYD is slightly better.

One advantage that was really noticeable was how well TTYD aged compared to PM64. TTYD's visuals and audio still look great, and the game runs pretty impressively. Meanwhile, PM64 looks and sounds much worse.

I also think that TTYD has better combat, especially with the addition of partner health, stylish moves, and some great new badges. The level design in PM64 is better due to less backtracking, but I don't think that TTYD isn't too bad in that regard, except for chapter 4 and finding general white. TTYD in general has some weird, unnecessary padding as well.

You still had to visit every area in the game. Not that user but I replayed TTYD recently and even after all the backtracking it's annoying since you have to jump on General white about a dozen times to wake him up...but there's no hint of it working.

It took me longer than it should have because I thought I might have been missing/forgetting something and quit jumping on General White in order to look around the level.

It's literally a remaster.

That's awful.

youtube.com/watch?v=GhLwyabmswY

Nothing in TTYD touches this.

that shit was such a fucking asspull. i didn't mind it as a kid but as an adult I thought i might be able to skip it by just going into his house after making the first stop, but nope there's no way to get to him without going to every fucking spot.

By definition, it isn't. It does not increase the quality of the images or ideas. It does just the opposite, it looks like garbage.

too JRPG sounding. just sounds like a mess of weeaboo shit.

Not as bad as your empty sounding soundfonts and airy mixes.
youtube.com/watch?v=BSZg0L5HUUE

IYO

>1
TTYD
>2
64
>3
TTYD
>4
64
>5
TTYD
>6
TTYD
>7
64
>8
TTYD

Crystal King was downright scary when I was younger
>default attack hurts, worst status if not ACed
>Crystal Bits force you to use Lester
>lot of HP
>self heals for fucking 20

>1
hard to say, I think they're pretty equal. I feel like 64 had more things to do though but I may be wrong

>2
64 no contest

>3
64. First time around I loved both equally but 64 is better on replay

>4
64

>5
TTYD

>6
TTYD

>7
64

>8
about equal

It sounds a hell of a lot better than TTYD's overuse of shitty synths and harsh noise.

youtube.com/watch?v=w5AZRtpTLhM

>1
PM64
>2
PM64
>3
TTYD
>4
PM64
>5
PM64
>6
TTYD
>7
PM64
>8
TTYD

>tfw closing the palace after beating him
It just felt right then, and it still does now.

...

TTYD
PM64
Equal
PM64
TTYD
TTYD
PM64
PM64

What even is this, Babbu's first midi?
The lack of vibrato on that guitar, lack of sub noise, no harmonic thickness, it's empty sounding.
youtube.com/watch?v=uvug9_xljlY

I disagree. The Crystal King's theme was not only fitting to the character, but to the whole level's setting. It carries the feeling of the overworld theme in the crystal palace.

youtube.com/watch?v=o6I-n7xK03A

They're both solid 8/10 games that are held back by a certain weak chapters.

TTYD could've used more original enemies. Just look at this shit.

best waifu or BEST WAIFU

>not including the one with the best villains

I agree with you, but a lot of those are from the pit of 100 trials or only appear in one small area. Also, Wizzerds and Spinias were new species for that game.

I just recently picked up TTYD from my local small game store. I'm pretty familiar with 64, so what should I expect with this?

shittier than SPM

Prefer left, but cannot deny the improvements of right

A better game.

The majority still appears in the main game. And when I meant original enemies, I meant more enemies that aren't just colour swaps.

>new coat of paint
AYYYYY

Better combat, much less straightforward chapter progression; hub world is a shitheap though.

Jesus, that's hideous.

Direct sequel that expands on many of 64's mechanics and introduces some new features. Story and characters are a little more involved, it also has post-game content and some bonus dungeons.

>1
64
>2
64
>3
TTYD
>4
64
>5
64
>6
TTYD
>7
64
>8
TTYD

The only right answer.

>including the game that started the series down the path to damnation.
Yeah, no thanks.

Better battles and funnier writing, but also worse overworld and sometimes garbage pacing.

SPM had a grand total of one toad, no?

this piece of shit is the reason why we have color splash and sticker star now

really can't get into these kinds of JRPGs

better combat, shittier everything else

TTYD

although both are amazing experiences

And a great total no RPG mechanics.

This is the one project I actually want Nintendo to slap with a DMCA

half of those are exclusive to the pit, so i don't see a big issue with it. the original had gloombas and hyper goombas too.

TTYD has better mechanics, original has better level design.

DOES NOBODY ELSE SEE THIS IMAGE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

One of the best games ever, almost as good as Undertale.

kill yourself newfag

It's a bald dude kissing a baby.
Get your mind out of the gutter.

this was the first stepping stone to shitter star and color splash.
the game was a platformer that didn't have platformer controls, and it was an rpg without rpg elements. it was completely aimless in terms of gameplay, and the character designs were ALL garbage.

Super Paper Mario

>mad he doesnt have a Cred Forums gold account and cant see the image

DELETE THIS

...

i think it was meant to sound empty and muted.

it was the transition from RPG to adventure

report it ap.nintendo.com/report/

RE4 is why we have RE5 and 6.

pleb

That's a stretch, it's a platformer

Super Paper Mario didn't replace everyone with a fucking Toad

Took out all the pit-exclusive ones. It's still pretty bad.

And while the original had recolours too, it didn't take up the majority of the enemy list like this game did.

the toads are the least of the problems sticker star had

Paper Mario in all cases.

There's nothing to debate. PM1 is superior.

>Super Paper Mario didn't replace everyone with a fucking Toad

Yeah they replaced everything with a load of ugly garish shapes with eyes and ugly environments.

>Took out all originality in the series
>Not the biggest problem

the biggest problem was the gameplay. You know, because it's a video game

>ugly environments
Your opinion no longer matters

Is this an aggregate or just one guy's opinion?

If you think Super Paper Mario was the reason behind Sticker Star's shitty combat you're insane

>Bowser Jr.
>Not Jr. Troopa
But why?

It replaced everyone with original the character that had next to nothing to do with Mario.
Almost as bad.
I want original looked Mario characters. Not generic mario characters and shit that doesn't look like they are apart of the same franchise.

>#8 and 11

Those must be from TTYD. They're nonsense.

It wasn't. If SPM had lead directly into Sticker Star, they wouldn't have had to retool the game during development after Miyamoto said it was too similar to TTYD. It's purely the fault of the development team.

It's the reason why we still don't have Paper mario combat anymore.
It's the reason why the game took a hard turn on the way the game plays in it's entirety.

>he likes spms environmental design

Yours never did.

>I want original looked Mario characters
Define what an "original looked Mario" character is you picky bastard

Aside from the X-Nauts, TTYD's enemy designs are pretty lacking.

The first Paper Mario will always be the best, especially since it doesn't have as much fucking backtracking as TTYD.

Only played PM64 and TTYD

Should I give any of the other games a chance? The 3ds games were garbage but what about wii?

>It's the reason why we still don't have Paper mario combat anymore.
No it's not because it plays nothing like Sticker Star

Looks like one guy. The aggregate would rate PM1 Ch6 lower, more variance in the floor ratings, and Glitz Pit/Train would be rated higher.

Still, PM1 would be the superior game by that metric.

>He didn't like every fucking world having it's own unique design
shit taste

>Played through PM 3 times
>Quit TTYD by chapter 5

Even the X-Nauts are weird, for aliens.
A race of middle-aged men with giant white mustaches?

Really expected something like that out of M&L. Actually, TTYD might have done better without the X-Nauts, entirely. They were useless to the main plot.

no, TTYD had a ton of unique design. SPM had floating geometry.

Chapter 4 is when TTYD really starts to drag, not to mention it's the first where you're stuck in it until you complete it

Original looking*.
A koopa with enough distinction in it's design to be it's own individual but not shy away from stil being part of it's race.
Not paper crafts man that doesn't look like it was ever anything related to mario games.

It's like having a game that used to be full of several different humans from all over the globe to be boiled down to nothing but white guys in polo shirts which only distinction is fucking the color of the polo shirt or color of hair.
Or in Super Paper mario's case Nothing but one Human and nothing but Space aliens like look like greys as people to talk to.

Super paper mario and SS/CS are two extremes that don't work well. extremely unoriginal and Extremely different looking.

>this huge Innovation Bias

The number one reason gaming is dying.

not sure if i'm being baited or not but those aren't mustaches, they're uniforms. peach puts one on in one of the interludes.

>Being a doorfag
>A lot of chapters in TTYD were copy-pasted from Paper Mario

Wii one is okay enough if your absolutely dying for more.

If you can live without another Paper Mario game, I would suggest finding something else. There are plenty of better uses of your limited vidya time.

Play Legend of Dragoon.

>64
>64
>TTYD
>Tied
>TTYD
>TTYD
>64
>Tied

64 had more interesting puzzles and exploration.

TTYD felt bland. Besides the arena, every chapter was just town>dungeon>boss>repeat.

Actually I think the "moustaches" are supposed to be stylised collars like pic related. Although the fact it's hard to tell speaks for the dubiousness of their designs.

not a single chapter fits this description.

>It's like having a game that used to be full of several different humans from all over the globe to be boiled down to nothing but white guys in polo shirts which only distinction is fucking the color of the polo shirt or color of hair.
That's Sticker Star user, not Super

PM is guilty of that too.

It didn't have to play like sticker star to start the change. It just played drastically differently from the original two games people loved.
RE4 plays nothing like RE5 and 6 and also doesn't play like the RE games before it but it change the direction RE was heading at the time.

>Chapter One
>Both are small meadows with a town full of koopas and a castle
>Chapter 5 is an island
>Chapter 7 involves snow

>Actually, TTYD might have done better without the X-Nauts, entirely. They were useless to the main plot.
Bait.

So did you not read the rest of the post you neanderthal?

not really, chapter 2-6 and 8 aren't like that

>It just played drastically differently from the original two games people loved.
"It's different so it's bad!"
Fuck off, Super was a fucking platformer while Sticker Star/Color Splash were shitty barebone turn based RPGs

The Resident Evil comparison doesn't work because through and through they're all third person shooters

I had a MUCH better time with the first Paper Mario. Played it like 4 or 5 times ever since it was released.
Meanwhile played TTYD last year and I only had fun with the tournament and train chapters.
I would say TTYD had better plot, party members and better battle system, but overall Paper Mario was more enjoyable.
Also had a better OST. This shit nevet got off my head in 15 years
youtube.com/watch?v=64zTVav9Ch4

Super Paper Mario isn't a good platformer either and don't pretend it is. It's no where near even the standards of even New Super Mario Bros 2.

Holy shit dude, that looks like a baby about to get shat on, buts it's just a bald guy kissing it. 10/10

No. It is about "it's different so it's bad"
Nintendo took it as "People liked that we changed up Paper Mario. Lets do it again."
Super paper mario isn't a bad game. It just paved the road for the bad games with it's success and nintendo's loss of touch with it's consumer fanbase.

On a completely different note. I never liked SPM.

is this bait or not

the first level of SPM is a grassy meadow too fuck nut

Wasn't there a point in time where most of Cred Forums held TTYD as one of the best games of all time?

What's with the sudden change in opinion?

emulation brings in people who aren't blinded by nostalgia

TTYD is way more flawed than 64

Contrarians, duh.

That doesn't excuse it. I mean Color Splash has a unique 1st stage.

Paper Mario 64 and TTYD literally go:
>Green Meadow --> Koopa Village ---> Grey Fortress/Castle

Chapter 2
>Dry-Dry outpost->dry dry desert->unlock temple->boss

Chapter 3
>Forever Forest->Boo's mansion->Tubba Blubba's hut->windmill->boss

I mean, I love PM64 but you're mistaken if you think that it doesn't follow a similar formula for some of its chapters.

Thinking 64 is better doesn't mean you hate TTYD, user.

No, it didn't pave the way for Sticker Star and Color Splash. If they wanted to change it up some more, they wouldn't have brought back the Turn Based battles. If anything, the first two are more the reason Sticker Star and Color Splash exists

>It's no where near even the standards of even New Super Mario Bros 2.
(You)

2 doesn't start you at a town like the other guy said, 3's town doesn't appear until after the dungeon and its barely a town

Nope

SS and CS exists because they saw how popular SPM was but also saw that some people didn't like SPM('s story).

So in true Nintendo fashion, they cut out the story, the partners, and the badges because "muh simplicity" but for some god forsaken reason decided to put the turn based combat back in even though there was nothing that justified it.

SS and CS wouldn't necessarily even be bad if Nintendo didn't go full retard and make them barebones RPGs without any of the charm that made the older game memorable.

Like two or three contrarians. This is Cred Forums. We have a poster count for a reason.

>So in true Nintendo fashion, they cut out the story, the partners, and the badges because "muh simplicity" but for some god forsaken reason decided to put the turn based combat back in even though there was nothing that justified it.
So now you're just comparing it to the original and TTYD now since Super was completely different

Except for the guy that keeps frantically posting about how "shitty" TTYD is because he didn't have the attention span to walk back from the creepy steeple

Now you're just splitting hairs.

What does it even matter anyways, they're both good games so why are we even arguing for?

>what does it matter

I don't know, I just responded pointing out how you were wrong in your assumption about 64 when replying to that other guy

There both great and I think it actually comes down to preference for this one.

But I'd pick Paper Mario.

SPM is a legitemately bad game though, it's platforming mechanics are really shit

this

I'll never play it again because of that fucking tree level

The other Paper Mario games platforming aren't anything to write home about either

Does anyone else hate how Paper Mario looks in all the games after 64?

..and they're radically different green meadows with radically different koopa villages and radically different castles (not to mention TTYD has a dungeon you have to get to to get the stone before entering the castle)

It's still the same basis
>Meadow
>Village
>Small Area involving Fuzzies
>Castle

You know the answer user. Don't make me post it.

Bow was great, but Vivian a best.

>Goalpost moving

Super Paper Mario showed Nintendo that the series could still be popular without the RPG mechanics that made it good and because some gooks on club nintendo said that they didn't like SPM's story, Nintendo decided to gut that aspect too.

How about you actually play the games before you spout your shitty opinions.

Now you're just stretching.
>Platforming with slight level up system
>Turn based RPG with NO level up system

he's not wrong, SPM has garbage platforming.

It still is, fampire. We're just comparing it to the overall equally good prequel.

>Holds the Star Spirit hostage
>Nobody calls her out on this
I don't like her very much

Still had more depth than most of the other games

What do you even mean by "depth" in this context?

I never did play the one of the left but I loved the fuck out of ttyd

the other paper mario games weren't platformers though, they were RPGs that had extremely brief areas where you'd need to platform across something to progress, but SPM kept TTYD's overworld controls, just made them 2D and thought "fuck it why not make that the entire game"

>he lost his legs in the great battle of shooting star summit

>Nintendo took it as "People liked that we changed up Paper Mario. Lets do it again."
Which is why the beta version of Sticker Star was a TTYD clone, right?

Yeah, he was goalpoast moving by saying they were copy/pasted levels then switching to saying that he just meant the aesthetic

sure it was.

...no it didn't? if i recall correctly, it doesn't even have running speed or slowdown, it's just a constant speed when you press left or right, which is absolutely terrible for a platformer.

64 is the better designed experience as a whole, while TTYD is objectively the better game. This is non-negotiable.

no it wasn't. it was sticker star with partners.

>Not a single chapter is like Paper Mario
>Chapter 1
>WELL UH, THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANYWAY, SHUT UP

The hell are you talking about? There's plenty of good platformers like that

'depth" in platforming? I don't the dude is obviously retarded so he threw that word in.

>They are literal copy pastes
>No they're not.
>UH THE MOTIFS ARE THE SAME I MEAN THEY HAVE GREEN GRASS AND THERES A CASTLE

I can do that too.

Debate you say?

Super Paper Mario

Name 12.

>a mediocre platformer with a story comparable to a fanfic

No.

>literal copy pastes
>literal
Look, people misusing that word again

You said "Not a single chapter fits that description" when Chapter 1 does

KP koopa was literally a recolor just for glitz pit, not a normal enemy

>with a story comparable to a fanfic
You're the reason we have Sticker Star now fag

Why couldn't they just design a new Koopa model for that character?

Sticker star doesn't have a story. So no.

Exactly, it's your fault

What is there to debate. They both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Really it just comes down to personal preferences over which one is better.

I also feel like i've seen this thread before.

So PM with Mario related story
PM TTYD with Mario ralated story
SPM with fan fiction story that has nothing to do with Mario.
SS with no story
CP with no story
How was this my fault and not Nintendo massive loss of touch with it's audience?

But it's not a copy paste though

It has the same motif, both pulled off in radically different ways.

>PM TTYD with Mario ralated story
>SPM with fan fiction story that has nothing to do with Mario
By what metric?

Can't we all just agreed that people who like SPM, SS, or CS just have different taste? Rather they are bad games or not, people have their good reasons to love/like them

Paper Mario
>pros
Solid all around. No chapters are particularly annoying, most are quite good.
More difficult of a game.
More easily navigable overworld.
>cons
Partners are very flat (hue) and only have 1 or 2 lines
Tutorial section is ass to replay and there's no way to speed it up
Shy Guy's toybox has a fair amount of backtracking and I personally didn't like the island, but the boss was cool and somewhat difficult

TTYD
>pros
Partners are much more varied in personality and abilities
Locations and overworld is much more fleshed out with more to do and see
More badges and abilities to play around with
Some absolutely stellar chapters
Pit of 100 Trials
Optional hardmode from chapter 2 onwards with the Double Pain badge

>cons
No level limit means BP abuse makes an already easy game trivial
Ms Mowz is borderline useless
All around easier save the Pit of 100 Trials
Chapter quality may vary
Larger overworld means a lot more walking to get places, warp pipes are a bit out of the way, and no spin move means you need Yoshi to go fast, whom you don't get until chapter 3 and is slower to use in general

>pros of both
Music
Graphix
Humor
Battle System

>cons of both
Lack of difficulty
Slow to start
The only two of its kind Nintendo pls

You didn't like the story, so they cut it out. Call it fanfiction all you want, but doesn't change anything.

Your fault fag

>PM TTYD with Mario ralated story
TTYD was just as much fanfiction as SPM was

SPM was too linear to be good.
If it had more unique stuff you could find and ways to customize your character it would be the best.

>The only two of its kind Nintendo pls
It's weird how absolutely nobody else tried making games using the Paper Mario formula. You'd think there'd be at least a couple, but nope.

There absolutely is.

I mean, it's not OFFICIAL.
But it exists and looks brilliant.

By metric of every character being nothing related to Mario.
Mario willed into another plane of existence to fix reality.
Bowser, Peach, and Luigi just along for the ride for laughs.

You never go to the extreme. It always fails.
Extremely original means you are jarring, something entirely new, and have no place in the thing you were originally from and being extremely generic makes you boring and uninteresting.

Nintendo went to these two extremes 3 times already with the Paper Mario series.

When someone tells you that they didn't enjoy the your story, your immediate thought shouldn't be to stop writing all together.

Especially when the stories that preceded it were impeccable and held to critical acclaim by a sizable audience.

>THE GREAT DEBATE
theres a debate about this? TTYD, hands down.

>1
64
>2
64
>3
TTYD
>4
TTYD
>5
TTYD
>6
TTYD
>7
TTYD
>8
TTYD

64 is never as high, but never as low.

I didn't like how it had nothing to do with the mario universe.
So their idea to fix that is to have the story have nothing to do with anything ever. By removing it entirely. Not my fault Nintendo fucked up three times. they just hear what they want to hear.

Well when you don't like the most complex story in the series obviously it's still your fault

I like Super Mario Sunshine more than Super Mario 64. Way more. Other than that I agree with the gamecube fucking up other franchises. But I still think that the gamecube has it's merits; it has a lot of good couch/party games, it has the best Mario Party games, it's got the TTYD and like two other really good games. It's my favorite 6th Gen console but that's not really saying much. If you look at the gamecube and only care about single player experiences it was a shit console but if you had bros to play mario party or wario ware with it wasn't bad.

I think I prefer TTYD. Better music, more interesting battle system, opportunity to make the game harder with a Double Pain badge(doing a run right now), a few really interesting settings (battle arena in the sky), and IMO more interesting characters; I honestly can't remember any allies from PM64 other than Goombario(and only because he's the first), the spark thing, cute Boo, and the Parakoopa dude.

But I agree with the people saying that PM64 was more consistent quality. TTYD has a lot of dips in quality, but I think the highs make it better, and it's overall more memorable; a lot of creativity went into the game.

It wasn't complex. It was stupid and had nothing to do with mario.

>So their idea to fix that is to have the story have nothing to do with anything ever
You'd obviously not be pleased with it either

There's South Park but eh..
It's a simple yet intuitive system that rewards you for having decent timing. It keeps the traditional turn based rpg gameplay from becoming stale after 2 hours, as I find most rpgs do.

You could totally make a similar system and have a much more punishing game without actually changing anything significant. I'd love to see an rpg use a similar active battle system where you can block dodge or parry with separate buttons and each one has varying results based on how you're attacked. Some blocks or dodges would require multiple presses, and same with attacking. Different kinds of attacks and combos based on button presses and timing and what have you, each with varying results based on the kind of enemy you're fighting and potentially what status aliments they have. It's simple, but engaging and fun to use. And can lend itself to complexity.

>It was stupid
So was TTYD's but you don't see anyone complaining

That doesn't answer the question.

TTYD's plot and premise revolves around competing with an original faction of space nazis in a treasure hunt for magical macguffins for the purpose of unsealing a thousand-year old demon. It doesn't even take place in a familiar setting, but in an entirely new town with its own lore and surrounding locales. Bowser is irrelevant for the entire game. What puts it in the same group as the original beyond the fact that Peach is kidnapped?

hi

Complex != Good

I am not pleased with extremes. Nobody is.
You change something enough it ceases to be what it originally was.

Paper Mario 64 and TTYD had great stories. Their characters acted, looked, and felt like they were part of the Mario universe. Nothing in Super paper Mario did that. It felt like they just ripped 4 Mario characters out of their game and slapped them in a completely different franchise and called it their own. the story didn't feel like it fit the Mario franchise.

So they instead of making a story that fit which they were known to be able to do they instead decided to hit the opposite extreme of having no story instead of a story that wasn't the least bit mario related.

It's retarded

>random Cred Forumsirgin without taste

What else is new.

Anyone know if there's a romhacking community for any of these games?

>Peach has a romantic subplot with a fucking computer
>Not stupid
I think you're just retarded

yea, rogue port just felt like an insane mystery port that happened to exist in the mario universe.
it's not like super mario land isn't a bizarre world. there's no reason rogue port couldn't exist in the mario universe.

super paper mario is just dimension hopping nonsense. It made sense in a meta sense but it's still not as good as TTYD's setting.

>the story didn't feel like it fit the Mario franchise.
That's what made it so fucking good IMO

There are a few anons working on PM style games here but we don't know if they will ever finish it

Nailed all of it.

Also, should be noted that double pain makes the game more than double hard. Unless you grind you have to think carefully about a lot of fights and tense situations go from being nonexistent to semi-common.

>TTYD's plot and premise revolves around competing with an original faction of space nazis in a treasure hunt for magical macguffins for the purpose of unsealing a thousand-year old demon.
But really you were just doing that so you could save the princess. This was just a means to an end. The character acted looked and felt like mario characters. they fit all bills.
Can you tell me that fucking pixel iguana is a mario character and not a meme?
Can you tell me the story of Super paper mario wouldn't have been the exact same if mario was replaced with some other character.
The same game would have worked better if you played a character that looks like it was from Flipside. Wouldn't have sold as much but wouldn't have sold as much be would have been better received.

>4
>TTYD

ttyd is only slightly better in battles
PM64 is better in everything else, music, partnes, comfyness, etc

Call me a scrub, but I loved discovering the different varients of enemies.

>The character acted looked and felt like mario characters. they fit all bills.
The villains didn't, they were edgy as fuck, you could have stuck THEM in another game just like Super Paper Mario's

>you will never play through the Glitz Pit for the first time again

The fact that the game uses the new location to explore angles that couldn't be done in the mushroom kingdom while also taking time to focus on your companions as they explored the world with you.

You couldn't have a game set in the mushroom kingdom where you had to meet with a Mafia don to get tickets to a zeppelin that takes you up to a floating arena where underground fights and sleezy back room dealings took place.

You couldn't have a game set in the mushroom kingdom where you have to help a young woman deal with her sister's constant abuse, to the point where she finally steps up to her own family and tells them enough is enough.

You couldn't have a game where you had to a pirate battle while riding atop an old ghalleon being driven by the spirit of a conquistador.

And the game is more memorable because of it.

SPM failed because it tried to do too much, too fast and the gameplay was a step back from the usual quality.

>But really you were just doing that so you could save the princess. This was just a means to an end. The character acted looked and felt like mario characters. they fit all bills.

>he wanted another "save the princess" plot

It could be even better if partners spoke more than at 2 or 3 specific events.
All I remember was when the penguin mayor dies and on tubba bubla's castle, and even so they are generic lines
At least crystal palace duplighost stuff had a bit more, but only for koops and bombette

Even when the story focused on stopping a demon from destroying the world, it still never felt as though it was serious to its detriment.

As opposed to SPM who spent the bulk of its time building up the chaos heart's destructive power to the point where you just had to stop and say "is this really a Mario game?"

Tbh, if Mario wasn't the main character, it'd probably would've been easier to swallow.

Left easy. Half of TTYD chapters are mediocre.

Spoken like a true Doorfag

Not even him but yes, that's right. Nobody likes backtracking back and forth from Creepy Steeple but everything else about the chapter is gold. You get a partner with some actual characterization and that moment after you get the Crystal Star is just perfect.

It'd be a closer fight if it were up against a great chapter like Tubba Blubba or something but Shy Guy's Toy Box was generally underwhelming

Dude, the X-nauts were no threatening than the mooks from a super sentai show.

The only threatening person was Sir Grodus and you don't even fight him until the end of the game.

>You couldn't have a game set in the Mushroom Kingdom where a giant neckbeard Lizard tries to flirt with you

>You couldn't have a game set in the Mushroom Kingdom where you fight your brother in a giant Robot

>You couldn't have a game set in the Mushroom Kingdom where you get sent to Mario hell

Super Paper Mario has a shitton of memorable moments

When hasn't mario been save the princess.
Besides Mario party.

That's why I'm kinda disappointed in how nobody is trying. It's a system with a fuckload of unrealized potential.

>/agdg/
>finishing games
LAL

They still didn't fit at all

And we don't fight Grodus until the end of the game, but we see him after every fucking chapter

Fight your brother was cool.
The others were stupid as fuck.

/thread

>SPM failed because it tried to do too much, too fast and the gameplay was a step back from the usual quality.

SPM had good gameplay, it was just too easy. Pixis were fun and varied and the PCs were varied as well.

>The fact that the game uses the new location to explore angles that couldn't be done in the mushroom kingdom while also taking time to focus on your companions as they explored the world with you
That doesn't make its story Mario-related.

yea, getting sent to mario hell was pretty cool actually.
dimensio is a really good villain. I think the real problem with the game is how stale the RPG mechanics are. They really do feel tacked on. They needed to make way more items with a wide range of effects. There just isn't enough abilities, things to explore or find in the game.

Doesn't Peach get kidnapped in SPM too? She just gets rescued early on.

C'mon, how many twists can you make about Peach being captured without it being tedious? We can't kickstart a serious story with "Peach gets kidnapped" 100% of the time.

The X-Nauts as a whole were still donut steels, regardless of their competence or lack thereof.

The best companion of both games

Is this what giving up looks like?

The mech was fine but everything else felt dumb and out of place.

Like, here we are, playing a mario game, where they fight against a neckbeard and get sent to hell.

That's shit's out of place man.

All you need is the dash dude and you can safely beat most of the game.

I wish that you didn't move at one speed the entire game, especially when we're talking about a series where the momentum was added as early as the first NES game.

What makes it Mario related is the fact that they didn't forget that Mario games, at their core, are relatively light-hearted.

Seeing Tippi's origin was cool but it didn't feel like an actual Mario game because of how tragic and heavy it was.

It's the same shit as Loonatics trying to be too cool for school while being a show about super sentai looney toons.

>not Bow

why is the bald man naked

>fags actually dislike Boggly Woods
Everyday Cred Forums reminds me how far the shit taste hole goes.

>That's shit's out of place man.
And fighting a 1000 year old demon isn't?

>Liking Boggly Woods

>BUT THE WOODS ARE LE COMFY AND COMFY SNOW COMFY COMFY COMFY
Eat a chode. The chapter sucked dick, the partner literally blows, and the Puni AI is awful.

>All you need is the dash dude and you can safely beat most of the game.
I hope you do realize Dashell is locked behind a 100 floor dungeon which can only be unlocked with Luigi, who you don't get until Chapter fucking 7?

the environment was one of the best things ever.

Well no fucking shit we see him at the end of each chapter.

The end of each chapter was basically Peach finding info to help Mario on his quest.

I thought you were arguing that they were edgy.

Can you keep the goalposts within the same stadium?

TTYD is better in every way, but PM64 is already pretty much 10/10 anyway.

Too bad the series went to shit.

Considering we don't fight her until the end of the game and she's referenced all throughout during the peach segments, eh, not really.

It's not like Luigi turning into the final boss within the last hour of the game because reasons.

>What makes it Mario related is the fact that they didn't forget that Mario games, at their core, are relatively light-hearted
SPM had plenty of lighthearted moments. Its darker points are largely confined to backstory bits and lategame, which isn't so dissimilar to how TTYD was structured.

Shit user, the Peach-possessing world ending Shadow Queen feels nothing like a Mario character.

>I thought you were arguing that they were edgy.
Not the same guy who said that m8

I'm currently replaying PM64 right now and I can hardly play for more than 30 minutes at a time.

>It doesn't count because it's a game I like more

>TTYD is better in every way, but PM64 is already pretty much 10/10 anyway.
So TTYD is a 11/10?

I always thought SPM was a pretty fun spin-off title in the same vein as Megaman X: Command Mission, Megaman BN: Network Transmission, the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games, and the SRW OG Saga games where they take the associated gameplay genre for the series and flip it for a title or two while going balls-to-the-wall with the story and setting as a result.

The problem with Paper Mario is just sorta two fold in that having spin-off for what's considered a spin-off series to begin with is incredibly unconventional, and that they simply went full retard upon immediately "returning" to the normative RPG style.

>SPM is lighthearted
>One chapter has you outrunning a blackhole that's destroying a Samurai village
>Walk through that area and it's a white featureless plane
>Psycho-clown blows you the fuck up and literally sends you to hell.
>your brother is mind-controlled
>Tippi and Bleck's backstory
>Not to mention how each chapter, you get to see the chaos heart getting larger and larger in the background.

That's like saying Majora's Mask wasn't dark because there were a few funny moments here and there.

At least the shadow queen was something that was built up throughout the game so that when you meet her, you know that you're in deep shit.

As opposed to "we need a final boss so let's fuse the psycho-clown and luigi together because reasons."

PM64 actually had snow sections.
What do you have to say about that, doorfags?

>having spin-off for what's considered a spin-off series to begin with is incredibly unconventional
Not really, no. MMX:CM and MMBN: NT are both spin-offs of spin-offs.

>Shitty final boss with no build up is better than a properly built up boss

Man, you straight retarded.

Which is better, Vivian or Lady Bow?

u wot m8

>Which is better, [anything] or Lady Bow?
Are you really asking this?

>arguing about music
>this hasn't come up yet

top this
youtube.com/watch?v=C6jARBDGvf0

There was nothing to do there, though.

>Boggly Woods
>Snow
>Crying about Puni AI
You're supposed to help them in the fight, user. It isn't hard kids can do it.
But for real people hating on Creepy Steeple and Boggly woods have shit taste and probably should just avoid Mario games if they're going to take everything super anally.

The setting and characters more than made up for backtracking or collecting stray Punis.

>Properly built up final boss
Shadow Queen had little backstory we only heard a few snippits about her here and there, and it basically boiled down to "Big bad wants to take over the world"

But for real people liking Creepy Steeple and Boggly woods have shit taste and probably should just avoid Mario games if they're going to take everything super anally.

The setting and characters didn't make up for backtracking or collecting stray Punis.

Not him, and I do agree that Creepy Steeple gets way too much shit, but having to run back and forth four times the same area does get a bit tedious.

>You're supposed to help them in the fight, user
I meant watching the little shits fail at attempting to follow you through a level that is straight lines.

Don't even compare Creepy Steeple to Boggly Woods. Creepy Steeple had great characters. The Punis were almost entirely the same shit and only four of them stood out. One was fat, one was green, one was female, one was old.

I win

So you either never played the game or you never delved deeper into the lore?

Sounds about right for Cred Forumsirgin standards.

>it will never be 2004 as you get comfy with the new paper mario again
>you will never be slightly spooked by the ice land theme popping up out of nowhere with mysterious messages
>all that's left is watching paper mario go further and further downhill

Ouch...

I win

>people hating on Creepy Steeple and Boggly woods have shit taste
I'm surprised you aren't going full defensive autist and saying people who dislike Boggly Woods, one of the weakest chapters in the game, hate Paper Mario TTYD and are "Sonyggers."

Kooper is way better

I used to think this was cool, now I can't get the Games Repainted version out of my head

Paper Mario 64 in the Winter time for maximum comfort.

Thousand Year Door in the summer for maximum adventure.

Turning Jr. Troopa into Bowser Jr.

SHUT IT DOWN

Sammer's Kingdom was one chapter out of several, and the void getting bigger throughout the game isn't dark in and of itself.

If we're gonna bring up backstory, we might as well note how the Shadow Queen's existence and history is the entire driving force behind TTYD's plot and setting. Rogueport and its ruins wouldn't exist without the cataclysm she caused. The X-Nauts wouldn't want her to conquer the world with without her. The door wouldn't be there to seal her,l. You wouldn't even need to keep collecting stars halfway through the story if the characters didn't think they needed all seven regardless to keep the door from failing and letting the ancient apocalyptic demon out.

You forgot the champion

>Muh deepest lore
Kill yourself

64 battle theme>>>>>TTYD battle theme

they're both good though

>An entire world being destroyed isn't dark
>Your characters getting sent to hell isn't dark
>A giant vortex sucking up and bent on destroying everything in existence isn't dark
>However, some bitch who wants to coat the world in darkness and cause destruction is
Yeah, you're showing some obvious bias here doorfag

>tfw fighting this bastard for the first time ever

youtube.com/watch?v=wQLeMEPS7Cc

Oh yeah?
youtube.com/watch?v=gVQTGxOA7dQ

Bonus: youtube.com/watch?v=5VzadkLSbyQ

best answer,

TTYD added more badges, added stylish moves, and just had all around better combat because they didn't change anything from the first, they just added *more*

meanwhile it falls behind 64 in every other aspect.

They're still both magnificent games though.

>Sammer's Kingdom was one chapter out of several, and the void getting bigger throughout the game isn't dark in and of itself.

Having a looming threat hanging over your head throughout the entirety of the game is inherently dark when you consider that this is a children's game.

It's the same reason why Majora's Mask was considered the darkest Zelda game, because all throughout you see the moon hanging over you as it gets closer and closer to annihilating the world.

>If we're gonna bring up backstory, we might as well note how the Shadow Queen's existence and history is the entire driving force behind TTYD's plot and setting.

Actually, we don't even know about the Shadow Queen until partway through the game.

We don't even know it's a demon in the chest until peach finds out about it from TEX-XX during one of the interludes.

I think 64's music is better.
The only TTYD battle themes I liked were the ones for Smorg and the dragons.

>mfw found it at a yard sale complete with the box and booklet for $2

Found a bunch of other great gamecube games and they were $2 and in great condition, made my day

They're both great. TTYD is a sequel done right. Once you get broshi the game breaks though. If you build the right badge setup he one-hits all the bosses.

>Once you get broshi the game breaks though. If you build the right badge setup he one-hits all the bosses.
What?

What's the problem? He's just sharing his mayonnaise

you can break the game before getting yoshi
it's called superguard

>Having a looming threat hanging over your head throughout the entirety of the game is inherently dark when you consider that this is a children's game
A looming threat is only significant if its growing presence has tangible effect on something, and the void getting bigger only has direct consequence during the aforementioned Sammer's Kingdom chapter, which was one of several.

>Actually, we don't even know about the Shadow Queen until partway through the game
You didn't learn Tippi and Bleck's respective histories at the start either. This changes nothing about how the Shadow Queen is directly tied into the motivation of the antagonists, the very setting itself, the titular door and the macguffins, etc.

I agree with you.
The boss themes especially. TTYD's all felt kind of samey to me, whereas 64's all feel very unique and fitting for their respective bosses.
youtube.com/watch?v=_Qp-cGWavJU
youtube.com/watch?v=v1lhom-fv8o
youtube.com/watch?v=GhLwyabmswY

>A looming threat is only significant if its growing presence has tangible effect on something,
>has direct consequence during the aforementioned Sammer's Kingdom chapter,

Since you dismantled your own argument I'm just going to ignore the rest of the retardation and give you one last (You).

Don't bother replying.

Takes a few turns to get him charged up but he hits really fucking hard and doesn't give a shit about defense.

Kid me could not quite get the hang of that :(

>turn based combat

Both are boring electronic board games.

Concession accepted.

It's ok kid. Not all of us can have good taste.

B-but action commands and superguarding.

TTYD had much better party members, story-wise and gameplay-wise

...

test

>people think SPM lead to SS

That doesn't make any sense, those games could not be any different. And it had a hell of a lot more character than SS ans CS.

Hate it all you want but don't put false blame on it.

Pretty much this

That's like saying Metroid Prime 3 led into Other M. Or that DMC4 was directly responsible for DmC.

Just because the game preceding the one where things truly marked a downfall happened to perhaps spark controversy, do things differently, or simply exist, doesn't mean that it's outright responsible when in principle it speaks on a completely different manner.