How do we fix the koopalings?

quit giving them the same gimmicks

Koopalings were never good. The only sidescrolling mario game with good bosses is Yoshi's Island.

Make Wario versions

Wrong, we need more regular on-model artwork

Those personalities are entirely DiC fabricated. They are in no way related to the actual kids at all.

Give Wendy a booty.

>>Give them back their personalities from the Mario 3 cartoon

Downsize them so that only Larry, Wendy, and Roy remain.

Or just any type of personality in general but the Mario 3 cartoon is what most people already associate them with.

Like have them actually talk instead of just going HAH HAH HURR all the time. There's a reason everyone loves Luigi, Wario, Bowser and so on more than Mario himself. Nintendo needs to fucking figure out why that is.

roy's my boy.

x ludwig for extra points

>the Mario 3 cartoon is what most people already associate them with.
Dobson, stop.

Make them Bowser's children again.

>the Mario 3 cartoon is what most people already associate them with.
No. Those days are long gone, thankfully.

Rollerblades

>>how do we fix thing?
>by fixing it!
Brilliant idea.

Nobody sane liked them. Nobody missed them when SM64 introduced real unique bosses. The Sunshine kid is good enough.

Give them distinctive personalities, make their fight be more interesting, at least megaman tier, so fair they feel bland and uninspired.

Jr is the worst of them all though.

I have no idea who the fuck this Dobson is but even in today's generation of kids, there are people who still watch the old Mario cartoons whether on dvd releases or through netflix or youtube. Since the Koopalings never had any characterization or personality anywhere else, the cartoon versions are simply going to be what everyone defines them as. The age, quality or your opinion of the show is irrelevant.

Why were they even retconned to being adopted? Was it because of Bowser Jr.?

>reee why is nobody backing my idea to use cartoon personalities

>the Mario 3 cartoon is what most people already associate them with
Most people haven't even watched it.
Which is good because it was shit. Not as shit as the World cartoon, but still pretty shit.

We draw them fucking each other and mail it to Nintendo

>How do we fix the koopalings?
By not including them in any games.

...

>what everyone defines them as

You should conduct a study on this and show us the results.

Either make them harder to hit or do that thing Junior did in NSMBDS where he hid in his shell whenever Mario jumped.

>the YouTube Poop versions are going to be what late twenty year olds define them as

>Stop including them in the main series until they actually provide a challenge

Problem solved boys

Jr. gave us cool robot-riding boss fights in Galaxy and one of the more fun movesets in Smash Bros.

Koopalings gave us autists on the internet.

Jr. wins.

They had better robots in YS.
I've seen just as much Jr autism as any other Mario character has.

You misquoted, friend.

Make them work in teams or pairs.

Like Paper Jam.

The only thing Junior needs at this point is a redesign. Why they made him look almost exactly like Baby Bowser, and then retconned Baby Bowser to look exactly like Junior, I don't know.

And maybe there wouldn't be so much autism if Jr. fans and Koopaling fans weren't at each other's throats all the time.

But he's one of the worst characters in Smash, and he only got in at all because the koopalings came as alts.

You're part of the problem.

Oh, scrap!

Because Sunshine needed a baby type character, and the koopalings give off a more teenaged vibe. If they had just used Larry with the other 6 as extras (with a chapter in each location or something), Sunshine's storytelling wouldn't have been so juvenile and retarded.

I assumed it was moreso to give Bowser a sidekick. Finding spots/roles for seven different characters is harder/less character developing than one character and Nintendo likes to play up the Koopalings as a package deal.

Nope, Sakurai already said Jr. got in because he found the possibilities for his clown car intriguing. Koopalings were just a bonus since it could be used to advertise 8 player smash.

He is simply a much more important character than the koopalings. They got to be in Mario Kart 8 and Color Splash luckily for them but the bulk of games being made still feature Jr. instead

>What did people like about them

Nostalgia.

People overestimated their long-term appear. They were stale boss fights then, they're stale boss fights now.

That is bullshit and you know it. Miyamoto already said the koopalings in his mind were never his kids, to him they're just his underlings.

I'll take one mini Bowser over seven, thanks.

Well, kids and sidekicks are totally different. Bowser himself consistently works better without any sidekicks, being way at the top on his own surrounded by fearful minions. I never saw the koopalings or Jr as sidekicks, they were clearly personally close to him but their status has never been that much more than Boom Boom has, except maybe Bowser jr in NSMB. Closest he's gotten to sidekicks were some magikoopas, usually Kamek.

tits,..............huge tits ...............................
bandages

I don't think Japan ever explicitly called them his kids, I think they were just kids who worked for him and were for some reason high ranking officers

It was NoA that called them Bowser's kids in SMB3 onward

He ever said that, and it isn't true. The fact is they were each designed as his children and their introduction plainly reflects that. Prove me wrong.

Make them the minibosses and have the major bosses be unique.
Or make the only fight with them be against all of them at once.

Paper Jam did it pretty well.

The information is very easy to find online, there's no reason to still get it this wrong.

Prove yourself right

They were his kids in Japan, just never played up that much post SMB3:
mariowiki.com/Koopalings#Family_relationship

Junior definitely plays the sidekick role occasionally (Mario Party 9 for example) but nowadays, he's usually doing his own thing. Boom Boom and Pom Pom are Bowser's sole enforcers in 3D Land and 3D World.

>How do we fix the koopalings?

Wendy's lips around my dick

It'll work, trust me

You made the initial claim, burdon of proof is on you.

The Koopalings in the games have no individual personality differences. They may look different but they're just a group of punks. They'll need more than just "we just love being mean".

I don't think they had any lines in Superstar Saga, a frickin' Mario & Luigi game.

Damn, well then it's Miyamoto's own fault for letting the mistake go this far.

Gotta wonder though, if Miyamoto hadn't done that interview with whatever news outlet asked him this question, I wonder if the Treehouse themselves would have continued calling them his kids.

Damn, I have a sneezing fetish and this thumbnail misled me

Besides dialogue what defines personality in simple platformers?

Kind of a bad time to try and make this point after they've JUST been given lines of dialogue and personalities in Paper Jam and Color Splash

>Damn, well then it's Miyamoto's own fault for letting the mistake go this far.
It was a retcon, not a mistake.

They look just like him though. Compare all the other koopas in SMB3 to the koopalings, then note which features they share with Bowser. They weren't accidentally designed and accurately portrayed as his kids, that was the intention. He even said their "current story" is that they have no relation, confirming the story has changed.

S-stop being mean to me

Was Paper Jam okay? I stopped playing M&L games after Bowser's Inside Story.

Make Wendy the new love interest. Bowser can keep that slut Peach.

And Mario Kart 8, they're incredibly expressive in that game. Rio gives us a little insight into Larry and Wendy, too.

Not really but the koopaling parts and big bobomb were pretty good.

I seem to be a minority in this, but I hated Dream Team and thought Paper Jam made a ton of improvements

If you skipped DT, then Paper Jam won't feel nearly as rehashy to you and you'll probably enjoy it. Just don't go into it expecting a Paper Mario game, as plenty of people were stupid enough to do.

THE KOOPALINGS AND I

The Koopalings were a product of their time, and they only exist today, thanks to nostalgia.
Their designs are hideous for the most part. Bowser Jr was perfect. Wendy is salvageable, if only for the fact that she's a girl.

Every beloved and iconic aspect of Mario is "a product of their time"
Junior was a product of his time.
The problem is they need to evolve past their premise while still keeping what was beloved about them, using bold new ideas, trimming the fat, and injecting content and a grander scope. The problem with the koopalings is that they're trapped in the NSMB series, which do the opposite of that. The last "real" Mario game the koopalings has been in was SMW.

Imagine the Koopalings getting something like an area to themselves where they act as obstacles, like their SSS role adapted for a 3D platformer. That would be a good area.

I personally think the best option for them would to be a boss rush mode. Maybe in a secret tower somewheres or inside Bowsers Castle. Not have them be the main world bosses. Personally I really enjoy the Koopalings, its just that Nintendo is overusing them instead of spicing things up.

Paper Jam and Color Splash both fix these issues. None of the Koopaling fights feel "samey" like they do in the platformers, they're all different and use new mechanics.

I had this idea of the Koopalings in Paper Mario (before Sticker Star was announces) with each one having an optional chamber in Bowser's Castle that reflects their personality, you could eplore each, fight their servants/pets/minions or whatever, and find them for a boss fight. I guess that could be adapted to a 3D platformer, just do it with platforman in mind.

let them rest for a decade

The fact that he looks so much like Bowser was annoying at first, but lately it's come into use by forcing you to focus on his personality more and contrast them with his father.

Roy and Ludwig are also in the 3DS version of Rio

The hell is he a product of his time? He looks just like his dad. I see him and I readily believe that Bowser's sperm had something to do with his conception. I have an easier time believing David Bowie is the Koopaling's father than Bowser.

But they still feel samey compared to an entirely new boss. Not to mention they litterally recycled boss mechanics in Color Splash, like Wendy's tapdance is Bloopers samba and Ludwig's boat is basically Junior's clown car from SS.

WHEN YOU PINCH WENDY'S PENNIES

They look just like Bowser's species, but not him. They look more like Boom Boom than Bowser.

THERE'S FIRE

How did they give off a teenage vibe when they never talked until Paper Jam?

Superstar Saga did something like that. Otherwise I could see it as

Tower Boss: Koopalings
Castle Boss: Unique Enemy
Airship Boss: Bowser Jr.

Shame we don't have something like the Sonic Archie series where they could be Bowser's equivalent to the Egg Bosses.

God, no. We don't need the NSMB format of world maps anymore.

I meant, if they kept up that design.

continue to build

Here's an idea: actually have them communicate with both Bowser and Bowser Junior, since their role would be less ambiguous. We know Bowser is a stern boss to the Koopalings but the Koopalings still worship him so that can be developed on. We don't know anything about their relationship to Junior other than Roy calling him 'squirt' like he's his little brother or something.

character. I don't know, keep it consistent maybe?

I'm pretty sure Nintendo mandated this little exchange so people would drop the whole 'Ludwig is next in line after Junior' thing.

Disappointed that Morton doesn't talk like an idiot in Paper Jam

Seemed like the most obvious personality to give to him and now it just seems oddly inconsistent that Color Splash DID have him talk like that

They're also children, Bowser is mature.
Kids tend to closely resemble their parents, but also have their own characteristics and traits, making one a little clone is just lazy designing.

Plus, the kids were designed long before the original Baby Bowser (but it's interesing how they all lack horns) and the kids' facial features resemble classic Bowser's more closely than Jr's do. And most of them used to have green shells, like Bowser. If Jr had his own hair color and shell color you probably wouldn't think he was related.

Ludwig looks too small here

Well as first born he used to be the heir, but he was never the "leader" of the koopalings.

>And most of them used to have green shells, like Bowser.
Nope. Even in Mario 3, some of them had differently colored shells. That said, Baby Bowser didn't originally have horns until Yoshi's Island DS

They did in manuals, and there's their overall visual style, and that Bowser gavr them jobs to do and scolded them when they failed, in contrast to how he keeps Jr close and is more worried about his well being, because Jr's a baby.

>making one a clone is just lazy designing
> If Jr had his own hair color and shell you probably wouldn't think he was related
That's the whole point. With his design, it never needs to be explained he's Bowser's son. Even if you didn't know his name, you'd know he was Bowser's son. His design functionally ties him to his father with no need for backstory or explanation.

4/7 is "most", dingus. Learn hiw to count.

Get rid of Iggy, Larry and Lemmy. They look stupid and samey

But this is the same problem that birthed Metroid: Other M, you're relying on a medium outside of video games that dictate the story and character within the game.

He said "most"

You aren't going to prove him wrong by saying "some"

HAVE TAKEN OVER THE MUSHROOM KINGDOM

Where did it ever say he was the heir?

I thought he said all, mistake acknowledged.

Thr manuals come with the games, they're canon. Put together by the designers.

If they appear again in the series, it could become an ongoing thing

Then which manual details talks between Bowser? The only two major games they showed up in were SMB3 and SMW

It was stated he's the oldest, so that makes him heir. Pretty sure that's how monarchies work but I could be wrong.

He did, they just didn't beat you over the head with it like Color Splash.

We don't know that. In this universe a princess is the highest monarch-- unless it was explicitly said that he was the heir to Bowser you're only inferring as such.

The Koopalings' father is Morton Sr., I mean, that's obvious.

...

So after Paper Jam, are we to assume that Mario and Paper Mario will continue to be treated as separate characters/universes? Otherwise, there's no reason for Morton to not know who Mario is.

You could say it's because he's dumb, but do the other Koopalings in the game act like they're meeting Mario for the first time?

This, he's no different than Koopa Kid. Koopalings clearly look like Bowser but they've got identity besides that too, it doesn't really deifine their entire character. Except Larry.

...

What information do you want to get?

You completely got my post wrong, dude. What I'm saying is that the koopalings DON'T look like Bowser's kids anymore than Kamek does. They look like his species, but if they were to just show up out of the blue with no explaination and no history, the first thing you'd say is. 'Bowser is these guys father? Why do they all not look like him or even each other?'

Sure we do. There was a Mushroom King, and after that there were ministers. Peach is a figurehead.

You say that Bowser says he criticizes the koopalings for failing him in a game manual. Which game is it? I know Yoshi's Safari exists but that's such a lesser known title, and I don't recall it happening in the SMB3 or SMW books.

Oh. That's weird then, I think you're wrong.

Prove it. Post a picture of him. He's as much a presence in these games as the non-CDi kings of Hyrule are in Zelda.

I think they're also in Mario is Missing

Larry's quote from the Japanese SMB3 manual.

Too be fair, the Koopalings are the only other "Bowsers" arpund. Boom Boom and Pom Pom are close, but they wear shells instead of having one.

Not him, but the Koopalings had commentary in every version of the 3 manual.

Kill off Bowser in a game for real (whether it be the RPG games or mainline, whatever) and have one of them fill in as the new main Baddie, they could even change the design and motive up a bit to make them more intimidating

then like 10 games later revive Bowser with some shitty plot twist and have him return old and pissed at how bad his kids are at ruling the mushroom kingdom, to give more gravity to another Bowser appearance

he's so overused now they need to shake things up so people miss him for a bit

I got that they were his kids in SMW without reading a manual, and I was 9.

Well think of it this way: if you were to show this picture to a random ass dude on the street and told him 'which of these kids looks like this big guy' who do you think they'll pick?

Did you also think that Boom Boom wasn't? Because aside from the shell spikes, he looks as much related to Bowser as them.

Mushroom King was an NoA thing but there is this
mariowiki.com/Toad_Minister
The Mushroom Kingdom must have some form of government, like the modern United Kingdom or modern Japan, whereas Bowser's dark land seems more midieval.

So, he pretty much doesn't exist in the games themselves, correct?

Ludwig.

Just stop putting them in every single game as bosses or roster padding.

Smash did it the best with bowser jr. + the koopalings skins

Boom Boom wasn't in SMW, I didn't see him until like 2009 when I bought SMB3 on VC, and at that point more Bowser-like koopas were commonplace.

>he's so overused now they need to shake things up so people miss him for a bit

A pretty old-hat marketing ability but one that usually works. It's only a temporary fix though, after a few games or so don't you think the gig would get stale again?

The guy with different eyebrows, different hair, and a different shell? I could show you the lower half of every human being on earth and they'd all look more or less identical-- the face is what people are going to go by, and aside from the different snout shape he's by far the closest fit.

You'd never be able to have them all as skins of one another in Mario Kart when they all have different shapes and sizes. Smash only got away with it because their lower halves are hidden most of the time by the Clown Car

No, he was in SMB3, though, which was earlier.

Yeah, he looks the most similar there.

Read the post before replying.

I did, I meant that it was earlier than 2009.

Well duh.

They need a modern update. They're designs from the 80s and the look exactly like they came out of the 80s. Nintendo needs to appeal to an audience of the 21st century.

But I'm not talking about when you saw SMB3, I'm talking about when the vast majority of people first had the game.

>They need a modern update.

Iggy got one. Sort of.

Besides havng white spikes he doesn't have a different shell there, and his face is way more similar than Jr's. All of them are, even Lemmy by a small ammount.

No, you were asking about me specifically.

Now I don't believe you.

They're just as "80's punk" as Bowser, with the wild colorful hair, spikes, studded collar, studded wrist and arm bands.

Well, that's my mistake.

Ludwig has the same cat mouth, nose, and cheeks. His eyes have whites. He doesn't look like a clone but he looks more like Bowser than Jr, if you're just comparing facial characteristics. I don't have the same hair color as my dad either.

I just said 'not counting the mouth shape' because this is a 2d picture. Bowser's mouth isn't the same shape as there's in his 3d renderings. And sure, you may not have hair like your dad, but if you had six siblings do you think none of them would have hair his color? And more than that, don't you think it'd be way easier to see the resemblance if you did?

What did Bowser rape to get them all

>they don't loom alike, and the ways they do don't count
That's funny, I actually do have over 6 siblings and they don't have black hair.

>I'm pretty sure Nintendo mandated this little exchange so people would drop the whole 'Ludwig is next in line after Junior' thing.

Wait, that's a thing? I always thought that it would be Larry if anyone, since he's the last koopaling boss in Mario World.

Whatever.

Well, it's true. Bowser's mouth doesn't look like there's in 3d. And you completely ignored everything I mentioned, so I'll just say I think you're wrong and the most people would say Junior looks closer even if you don't.

>Ludwig
Fire Sis
>Lemmy
4 legged koopa
>Roy
Chargin Chick
>Iggy
Magikoopa
>Wendy
Spike
>Morton
Sumo Sis
>Larry
Regular koopa
>Bowser Jr
His kid sister (the one who read so much she got a blister)

Even in 3D Ludwig has a more similar mouth, cheeks, and nose.

Not really, the koopalings have mouths that look way closer to that artwork than Bowser's does. Bowser's face looks flater and less bulbous.

>Magikoopa
Holy shit

What if Kammy is the mother of the Koopalings?

Remember Kamella?

Even with the kids rendered better than Bowser, their faces are still more similar to Bowser's than Jr's is. Jr is all color scheme, and he has the modernized Bowser shell while the Koopalings have the classic Bowser shell. Overall, like Koopa Kid, he looks like a little thing themed as Bowser, while the kids actually resemble him a bit more closely.

Weren't you just saying he was a clone? And dude, this is a 3d render of them. The differences between them and Bowser are a lot more pronounced.

Eh you're right, he resemles Jr more in 3D, if only because Bowser was translated to 3D so badly. In 2D it's the other kids easily.

Paper Jam did it fine, save for forgetting three of them existed (Iggy, Morton, and Lemmy show up maybe twice each)
Pair them together. There's a ton of them, and they're way more fun when they can bounce off each other like Mario and his partner(s). They can merge mechanics too to help one another.
When you just fight them 1 at a time each after not seeing them in forever, it's just draining.

I like this.

Is Princess Wendy considered attractive to koopas or is she conventionally ugly to them too?

>some of them had differently colored shells
Characters can look a bit off in-game.

They looked even further off in-game tho.

people liked the koopalings because they were new and exciting. you can't recreate that feel by trotting out used characters from thirty years ago.

Bowser Jr. is now nearly 15 years old.

The colors there are consistent with their SMB3 colors though, only Morton, Roy, and Ludwig got their colors swapped around.

>Koopa thread
>Not used an excuse to post autistic bara shit

Times are truly changing.

Except for Lemmy and Ludwig having yellow shells.
>These weren't pallet swaps in Smash along with Shadow Mario mask Junior
Sakurai...

Me

>do the other Koopalings in the game act like they're meeting Mario for the first time?
Yeah, they do. Especially Ludwig

>Paper Jam and Color Splash both fix these issues
>Paper Jam literally rehashes their fights
>Color Splash copies fight gimmicks from Sticker Star

>The last "real" Mario game the koopalings has been in was SMW
Wrong,
In a Plataform it was NSMBU
In a RPG it was Paper Jam
and in Color Splash that I don't know how to classify

We can if you want

>literally being the wife's son
I'm sorry for you user, at least Jamal stood around as an uncle or something?

So they're almost consistent, you mean. And that isn't even the color schemes most of them use for the actual fights, for the most part

I mean the kind that bring the series forward as a whole, not just any rushed out entry.

We're white and our parents are still together.

She's our kingdom beauty!
Trust me I'm a parakoopa

NSMBU was the best 2d plataformer since SMW what are you talking about? Did you play it? There's no excuses not to now that you can pirate and emulate Wii U nowadays

>We're white
Genetic proof?
wanna a pic of your genes' paper or you're bullshitting me

I did with friends when it came out, it's just more of the same. It doesn't introduce anything new. Its quality is irrelevant to this conversation.

sent ;)

>it's just more of the same
It's not, maybe you and your friends just played the first world or something. Compare it to NSMB, NSMB2 or even NSMBWii and it is miles better. It's just slightly inferior to SMW

I obviously beat the whol thing. Which features does it add that are new to the story.

whole*
the series*

A new antagonist
two new modes
a new balanced power up
return of multiple exits in an ONE large map
return of baby yoshis with special ablilities

It also revisioned a power up to add new powers (mini now let you walk up walls)
A new thing to the series if you don't count nerfing a power up (Leaf) as a new good thing

>Stop sticking them with one gimmick and rehashing it
Except all boss fights with them are unique in each game

If you think they're rehashed it's you're thinking of SMB3 because you never played modern games

We remove them. They're overexposed because of the NSMB and several spinoff games, including but not limited to smash, mk8, paper jam, and more.

To be honest they're not really all that special because all you need to do is jump on them once and the fight is pretty much over and they have almost no personality.

>A new antagonist
We've had a purple thief you chase around before in SMRPG, and we've had enemies in the overworld in SMB3 and NSMBW, not new concepts.
>two new modes
Pretty sure MKDS and NSMB2 had challenge modes.
>power up
Not really a new concept nor is it freshly or imaginatively executed, they work just like a SMB3 suit would.
>multiple exits in an ONE large map
Not new, SMW.
>baby yoshis with special ablilities
SMW has baby yoshis.
>returning power ups
Not a new concept, SMB3 brought back the fire flower from SMB

Agreed brother
Why not fill the game with just goombas and koopas NOA??? WHY???
Why you must insist in those freaks?
Why not go out of the way and retire all mario enemies and make brand new ones then?
no more koopas and goombas, they are also too overexposed!
That's why we love the pixls in SPP NoA, brand new designs they really are unique

Some personal touches in their respective castles or rooms. Like just stick a grand organ piano in Ludwig's room. Hell you could even incorporate it into the fight.

Also, some unique movements could give some character too. Iggy does it a bit already.

Roy is perfection.

Extend this to the koopa troop and the mushroom world and I'd agree, otherwise nah. Koopalings were the great parts of those otherwise dull games, the few fun recurring characters Mario has.

Agreed. He is on Lemmy's level. Iggy is a bit fat too.

One is a core staple and a common enemy who you see multiple times in the level, if not every level.
The other are bosses that are not intimidating in the least, yet for some reason get treated almost as if they're major characters.
When it's a boss and it might as well just be reskins of each other, that is not good design. Granted they each do some shit with the stage, but 9/10 fights never get that far in.

Koopalings aren't the only ones either, BoomBoom and R63 subject suck ass as bosses too.

why is bowser doing haigure

>MKDS and NSMB2 SMRPG
I do love when we're talking about the last true 2d Mario plataformer and you move goal posts, and NO, if you ever played NSMB2 you know the modes are different
>SMW has baby yoshis
Yeah I do remember using all those baby yoshi abilities, w-wait a minute...
>returning power ups and new power up

No 2d game had an old power up gaining new abilities and if you say the squirrel is not a new power up nor is the feather cape

And now I now that you're just trying to shitpost, I don't know how you can say SMW was the last true one when by your own definition the games before it had the same thing. By your own definition SMB2 was the last 2d Mario Plataformer

>His kid sister (the one who read so much she got a blister)

Memories.
youtube.com/watch?v=TrlKC60jjSg&list=FLHc8A3mQ6fI2wsK2KEEBzWA&index=134

He's about the same size, everyone else was scaled up. He used to be the tallest besides Iggy, now he's barely taller than Little Larry and even Roy is bigger than him.

Holy shit user, your retarded strawmaning also fits SMW and SMB3 because for everything they added they also BUILT UP ON the previous game

The king, no, the chancellor and minister, yes. Further proving his point that the mushroom kingdom is more societally advanced.

Give them a game!

>koopa mischief
>Bowser and the koopa kids take manhattan (godzilla)
>castle minion tower defense.

I dunno!

They should use some of the 80's/90's cartoon personalities.

Ludwig as an inventor, Wendy as a spoiled and aggressive Princess, Roy as the cool guy, and so forth...

I want to be between them

Brother.

lol chubby

Ah, but they do do this user! For example, in New Super Mario Bros Wii, Ludwig is the only one left on the airship when Bowser Jr. gets left behind to fight the bros in world 6. This indicates an animosity between Ludwig and Jr. Adding to this, in Paper Jam Ludwig considers himself worthy of leadership, trying to be the Boss of the Koopalings, and saying "I've been dethroned!" the second time he's beaten. Also, when you fight him in Super Mario world, he's really the only one that spits fireballs the only one with a truly unique fight, and his castle is on the highest location in all of the game? He's trying to emulate Bowser. And look at his fights in NSMB Wii and NSMB 2 - he's clearly trying to copy Yoshi's and Donkey Kong's techniques.

And that's just one Koopaling. For example, did you know that the reason Larry is the last one fought in World, as opposed to first like he usually is, is because Bowser is less harsh on him in comparison to the others?

...

That's not strawmanning at all and you have no argument. Everything NSMBU does has already been done before. It doesn't introduce anything new, it's not a step forward. Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros, SMB2, SMB3, SMW, SM64, SMS, and SMG all take huge leaps and bounds in ideas, changes, atmosphere, features, characters, scope, and fresh new content. NSMB U is a waddle comparable to the gap from Mega Man 4 to Mega Man 5.

>did you know that the reason Larry is the last one fought in World, as opposed to first like he usually is, is because Bowser is less harsh on him in comparison to the others?
That's a cute headcanon.
>gives him the easiest job in smb3
>keeps him close in smw when he knows how dangerous the mario bros are

There's also the detail that Iggy's airship is mechanical while the others are wood, since he's supposed to be good with machinery. Maybe he invented mechakoopas and the clown car too.

Guys what if the paintings in Super Mario 64 are actually portals to other planets

Why is Throwback Galaxy exactly the same as Whomp Fortress

are they the same place? Did Rosalina makes the paintings?

>literally 2 new modes and a new antagonist
>dindu nothing new
Are you retarded perhaps?
SMB3 had a lot more introduced than SMW
SMW literally just introduced Yoshi, a world map and an easier difficulty.
NSMBU is on par with the things introduced in World from 3
The only problem was that the brand's already been damaged and overused by NSMB, NSMBWii NSMB2

fix iggy's hair
make roy's shell pink again
make better boss fights
get rid of bowser jr.
keep building their characters in the rpg games

that's enough. their only purpose is to be more interesting as bosses than nondescript enemies like boomboom and pompom. and they work as that.

for example, having them in mario kart was way better than avatars with no actual personality like king boo or honey queen or whatever other shit was in MKWii

When will we get what we want?

Fuck you I mained King Boo

The same day everyone else gets to touch their waifu/husbandos.

>how do we fix the koopalings
>"LOL NOT FIX ANYTHING BY STRAIGHT UP REMOVING THEM HAHA SO LAZY xDDD"

Everyday I'm reminded that this board is filled with idiots who don't actually want to tackle the problem just for an excuse for shitposting.

My solution is to make their personalities a lot more distinct from eachother. Despite looking different, their personalities kind of blend in with the other koopas.
>Ludwig: the ""leader"" and genius(?) of the group
>Morton: the strong and dumb dude
>Roy: the strong and ""cool""(?) dude
>Iggy: the wacky and zany one
>Lemmy: the wacky and childish(??) one
>Larry: He's just there with no defining personality really.
>Wendy: the daddy's rich girl

Outside of Paper Jam and Color Splash, the koopalings just come across as a gang of pranksters who do bad things because their villains. Perhaps expand on their motives and relationships with each other so they do seem like individuals than just a group called the koopalings.

Also make their actual battles reflect their personalities and make them unique from eachother. Every single one of them in the mainline series follow a set pattern and are always fucking easy in the old and newer games. Color Splash did accomplish this decently imo as much as I hate the battle system itself, the boss fights were distinct from one another.

>SMW literally just introduced Yoshi, a world map and an easier difficulty.
And many new enemies, new kinds of locations, kicking items up, climbing, spin jump, returning to cleared levels, everything about switch palaces, secret key doors, bonus worlds, as well as greatly modifying the standard key enemies. That's kind of a lot.

Mini Bowser is actually unique in most of his fights

The other not Bowsers weren't

Science needs to stop focusing on stupid disease cures and focus on making our husbandos real

>fembowser
DON'T STOP THERE.

All this especially
>make roy's shell pink again
And make his shades red again. He looks like a fucking granny with those hot pink shades. And take the spikes off Lemmy's cuffs again.

King Boo was great in Luigi's Mansion 1, they should have gone with that design.

...

>Bowser Jr autism
>anything compared to the autism of Koopalings, Luigi, or Rosalina
>or even Peach and Daisy

There's being new, and there's baiting. You did both.

I meant, like, post different fembowsers.

Have them team up with Junior more often

Are they capable of drawing them not blushing?

...

Much better.

>King Boo was great in Luigi's Mansion 1, they should have gone with that design.

Very good design from both games.

I don't get why they don't use this design in all the spinoffs. It's way more distinct and scary looking.

Fuck off, no one wants that

>and scary looking.
There's your reason. Miyamoto and crew are probably scared of scaring the kiddies. Only the most inoffensive and bland pass through that corporate machine now.

Based on the games, manuals, RPGs, Kart, and Rio I see it like this
>Ludwig: the most arrogant but also the most skilled and talented, cool and concentrated, likes classical music
>Morton: strong, dumb, angry, clumsy, fatass
>Roy: the rough and tumble cool dude
>Iggy: the rude, wacky, and zany mechanical genius
>Lemmy: the silly, carefree, and funloving one, very gymnastic, likes cute circus shit
>Larry: regular guy/cute mini-Bowser, a bit conniving to make up for his lack of brawn, likes sports and horses
>Wendy: bull headed bitch, bossy, humble in defeat but expects a rematch, likes fashion and swimming

Meanest to least mean:
Morton > Larry > Ludwig > Roy > Iggy >>> Wendy > Lemmy

Because you're seeing him here from Luigi's perspective

Ludwig sounds dangerously close to being a Naruto character.

You are unenlightened. Koopaling autism is merely easier to find, Jr shit is about as numerous and with him being a baby it can get even worse. Luigi and Waluigi has the most and most severe autism though.

I preferred the LM1 boo design, when he was pale green and he had a unique mouth shape.

DEEPEST LO- no that's fucking stupid.

WENDY HAS BEEN IN A WATER AREA IN EVERY GAME

>the black kid is the dumb one

I don't follow.

He's melanistic

>Iggy: mechanical genius

I thought that was Ludwig's gig? I don't think I've ever seen him build any contraptions whatsoever in the mainline games. To me, he comes off as the deadpool of the group, a nutjob who occasionally breaks the fourth wall, although Color Splash may have altered my perception on that. Ludwig built a giant ass ship to take out Mario, Iggy used chariots in a colloseum.

He doesn't sound silly or fun or at all like a Mario character in that description, just some dark ambiguously 'cool' talented guy that makes for classic fangirl bait.

He didn't say he built it.

>new kinds of locations
>SMW
>the one with less variety of locations and places than its predecessor

Also, climbing was in 2

NSMBU had five simultaneous players, boost mode, boost rush, chase, challenge mode, battle level editions, new enemies, new locations, modifying old enemies, new environmental items, an antagonist, revision of an older power up, sightings hunt, changing in time count and timed relayed physics an expansion pack and more. That's kind of a lot too.

That was probably just a DiC remnant. Iggy is the only one with a technological airship in a NSMB game.

Get rid of all the koopalings except for Wendy, Roy, and Ludwig.

Nah, no more than "demon king" Bowser. He's just the big brother. The tone's always light and fun, even if he isn't zany or a bumbling retard.

Well, true, but I've definetly seen people treat and describe him like that.

I don't remember anything like fences in SMB2, please remind me.

>>the one with less variety of locations and places than its predecessor
Each of the locations types were new to Mario, except perhaps Donut Plains which is derivative of Grass World.
I'll give you gamepad shit as a point.
The rest has been done.

>Five simultaneous players
Can't say multiplayer since NSMBW did that, can you?
>Boost mode
Minor feature but okay
>Boost rush
Minor feature as well, and it's basically coin rush from NSMB2
>Chase
What?
>New enemies
Very fucking few.
>New locations
Like what? The sunken ship (already done in SMW) that looks exactly like a normal ghost house? The single vine level? Layer cake desert which is exactly like every other desert world?
>New environmental items
Really padding this list out. Most of these aren't even new.
>an antagonist
Crazy, a grand total of 1 new character.
>revision of an older power up
What is this in reference to?
>sightings hunt
Fun but not a mechanic or anything monumental.
>changing in time count and timed relayed physics
What?
>an expansion pack
A separate game doesn't fucking count

Challenge mode is cool, but again that's a separate mode. Every installment has a new flying powerup but flying squirrel is admittedly neat. I don't know what battle level editions is referring to. Eitherway, all NSMBU does is grab a bunch of concepts from the past and puts them in a modern title together. Also its world map pails in comparison to SMW.

Probably because he was originally just a pretty cool guy, but things can be cool in light silly games without being edgy or out of place. Shame that 70% of Mario fanworks are autistic as fuck. He's a flashy, doofy manlet on top of that now anyway, so I guess they toned that down a bit.

They love their dad but he's rough and mean, not the nurturing or affectionate type, and he's all they've got.
They just want a sweet and doting mom that loves them no matter what.

>The rest has been done.
just like SMW then

It was introduced in 2, pic relate
you may say they were improved in SMW but a lot of things got improved in NSMBU too

>Five simultaneous players in NSMBWii
please show me, and telling your young cousin he was really playing with an unplugged control does not count
>basically coin rush from NSMB2
it's build upon it, not the same, coin rush didn't even had speed up
>Chase
The race mini games inside levels, slightly different than the rescue missions from Wii I give ya that.
>Crazy, a grand total of 1 new character.
As opposed to 0 antagonists in SMW? Yes, there was no new characters introduced ina 2d mario in years. At least SMW gave us Yoshi.
>What is this in reference to?
Mini mushroom added new wall walking perk
>Fun but not a mechanic or anything monumental
A lot of things were like that in SMW but user will say they are a revolution because it's the last true 2d mario.
What?
The time physics was changed to 0.75 instead of the traditional 1.0, when playing the expansion it goes back to 1.0 since it decreased total time and had a more dependant long jumping mechanic than the base game
>A separate game doesn't fucking count
It's the same game user, all assets, if you have the base game there's a fucking option to add on content. Will you also tell me every DLC in NSMB2 is a fucking different game too? For convinence nintendo also gave it a stand alone pack but don't kid yourself it is the same game with different level design and slighty changes in physics.

I'm not saying NSMBU is a revolutironary 2D mario game, all I am saying is that it was a true 2D Mario game. A bit worse than SMW, but still a true 2d Mario game

>just like SMW then
No, for the reasons aready listed. Stop backtracking.
Vines aren't like fences.

Not that guy but I'll respond to your other points.
Simultanious multiplayer was already a thing, but I gave you gamepad shit.

You admit the next several points are derivative. Also SMBD on GBC did some of those a while ago.
SMW offered many new enemies, such as Magikoopa, Suml Bros, and Chargin' Chuck.
Wall kick has been around since SM64, giving it to a power-up isn't anything really noteworthy.
I don't know what sighting hunts are
Luigi has played differently than Mario in Many games, this sounds like SM64DS Luigi

Nobody's saying it's not fine as "just another 2D Mario," I liked playing it, but it really is just more of the same. It mixes up old ideas and slaps on some fresh turtle wax. It's not the next "real" Mario game because it does not move the series forward at all, and has little creativity in regards to the game design and the conventions of Mario. To bring this discussion full circle, maybe they'll have something actually new for Koopalings in SMNX.

make them bowser's children again

>blatantly ignoring what I said
5 players is practically meaningless, what was significant was when NSMBW introduced multiplayer.
>boost rush/coin rush
It's similar and even if it wasn't, it's extremely minor
>chase
As you said, plus they're minor too
>characters
I'm not saying SMW had a shit ton of characters, but 1 new character isn't anything to gawk about, especially when it's just for lame chase sequences. But since you brought it up, Yoshi's a new character, and he's much cooler than Nabbit (mostly because he's a super power up)
>mini mushroom
One new ability for a particularly uncommon powerup. That should be in the "modified power ups" section you had anyways.
>fun but not a mechanic
SMW had loads of new shit that fundamentally or significantly changed the game, like switch palace influence, key holes and secret levels, kicking shells upwards, new Koopa mechanics and the interaction between Yoshis and shells. It even introduced ghost houses (which in retrospect was terrible for the series, but they were originally just fine)
>time physics
I dont see what this has to do with physics but that shit is beyond insignificant.
>expansion pack
It's a separate game. Blue Shift isn't fucking Half Life. I'm comparing SMW and NSMBU here, nothing to do with NSLU. Also I'm not the dude you were originally talking to by the way, is my only other post.

>Stop backtracking
I'm not bactracking, you guys are:
First say climbing, when I say climbing was before in 2, now it's not climbing it's about fences
Talking about 2d games and how NSMBU is not a true 2d mario, now is not about 2d games anymore, it's about all the fucking mario games including Mario Kart
I say the game has a feature, you say it doesn't count, it's too similar, I don't know what it modifies so it doesn't count.
I say the game has new enemies, you say it does not count because SMW had more and you like the old ones better

You guys are just biased abou NSMBU, it is a fucking true 2d Mario and it added new things to the 2d formula (being it big or small changes) you like it or not

>I dont see what this has to do with physics but that shit is beyond insignificant
you're one of these guys who say it had no physics change between 3 and world aren't you?

Wasn't backrackig, I was clarifying. Basic climbing has been around since Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr, I meant navigating fences. Sorry for the confusion.
To reiterate, it's another Mario game but it's not the next Mario game. Its quality for what it is was not in quesion, an overall derivative, sterile game with a few new bits and bobs. But for what it's worth I think it's fun enough.

No, you're just getting (understandably) confused because you're arguing with different people here.
First, I didn't make any claims about you backtracking.
>climbing
I was not the one to make this point, but regardless of who said what first, climbing in SMB2 is definitely different from SMW's nets. SMB2's climbing is just SMB3's climbing.
>true Mario
Never said that
>features, etc
I have pointed out what features you listed are minor/insignificant because it matters. Anyone can list new things from a game, but the introduction of SMW's connected overworld and secret levels is more significant than, for instance, wall running as Mini Mario, would you not agree?
>enemies
SMW's enemy cast is literally almost entirely new or unique variations of past enemies. It's outstanding. NSMBU's enemy cast is mostly old, with few entirely new enemies (dragoneels and grrrols are cool, flipruses which are just snow spikes) and still few new variations of old enemies (mecha cheep, targeting ted, goombrat, etc most are just an older enemy with one different quirk like goombrats turn at edges)
>biased
No, I just don't like how much love NSMBU gets for being so mediocre and safe.

What? What does time values have to do with physics?

OK I get your point, but that means you don't consider SMB:LL a real 2d mario too? How about SML and SML2?
> What does time values have to do with physics?
Not the guy who quoted you there, but the physics in Mario is built upon the time values and the spritework (and 3d) animation duration (specially in the NSMB series) NSMBU reworked it to 0.75s instead of 1.0, which is why base game has more fluidity to its movement than the others NSMB games giving it a closer feeling to SMW (but not enough I give that). Play base game as Luigi and Luigi U right after and you'll see a difference right away. It affects how Mario moves (includding acceleration), how enemies must react and the level design too to keep it simple.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

Then in response to the original poster, I'd say that's a fair point to bring up, but at the same time, it's should be expected for every entry in the series since they have always tweaked the physics in every Mario game to make them better. Still a noteworthy point, though.

God, Morton is so damn cute. 10/10 Koopaling.

Cute. I want to pat the male Koopalings on the head.

Why do I love this so much?

>OK I get your point, but that means you don't consider SMB:LL a real 2d mario too?
Not a real next step, no. Better than the original though.
>How about SML and SML2?
Not really but they are pretty great, imaginative and unique, what it does with the locations, evironments, powers, and enemies should be the standard for every new Mario game. I guess they took a small step into something else entirely with Land 2, eventually culminating into the perfection that is Wario Land 4.

>it's should be expected for every entry in the series since they have always tweaked the physics in every Mario game to make them better
Agreed, imo I think that was a big point there because the previously NSMB titles didn't change it at all
I agree they played mostly safe in NSMBU but it had actual changes in the NSMB series and for the better, I do consider it a true 2d mario, which was the thing that started all this debate even though you did not bring it. It pales in comparison to 3 and I think it is a worse SMW because those were the climax in 2d mario games. But I do believe it's a good 2d mario game and hope next one will be even better.

I agree with everything you said.

>should be the standard for every new Mario game
>culminating into the perfection that is Wario Land 4
Agreed and Agreed

Now you two, how about 3d games
64, SMS, SMG, SMG2, 3DW
and opinions about 3DLand

we can also discuss what the next 3d one must have

Wendy has feelings too. She'd drop the boss bitch front if you were nice to her.

here
3DW, 64, and SMG are all quite enjoyable for me. I don't have specific ranks for them, but really they're all pretty good for different reasons. SMG2 is one tier lower, don't really enjoy it too much. Never played 3D Land or SMS (beyond the first 2 or so areas)

I don't have any real stand out opinions on the 3D games. 3DW is great but I hope they don't make anything like it for a long time. Galaxy series has some really poor enemy designs. I'm reminded of flophopper (or hopflopper or whatever), cluckboom, and some others. 3DLand has some of the worst enemy design ever, but 3DWorld has some pretty sweet enemies.

I hope the next entry just has a fair amount of exploration and doesn't focus too much on multiple stars per level. I've never found it fun to replay levels for stars honestly.

It just needs to take everything good about every past Mario game and do it better while also taking it in a totally new direction. That's not too much to ask is it?

Sorry, she's mean and I don't like girls.

Who is Morton Koopa Senior anyway?

Bowser's ex husband.

>SMG2 is one tier lower
Yeah I can see that, I 100% SMG and was so pumped that I bought SMG2 on impulse because everyone said it was even better than SMG. But I'm not really sure why it was such a chore to 100% it. It seems more of SMG but somehow it gets stale in the late game somehow. So it seems you want a more SMS-like aproach in the next game, is that right? Or something more like Galaxy without the returning to get more stars? I Do like when you return to a level and it's not like the way you did before, new paths, new secrets. Maybe they could let get all the stars in one level without having to come back again every time I collect a star.

But we have different approachs user, will it be more plataform inclined or more exploration inclined? Will it be a bit more linear like galaxy or a bit more open like SMS? Do we need a new item for a new moveset like fludd? Will Yoshi be there? Will only Mario and Luigi be playable?

I like revisiting areas with new purpose, it gives the world more depth, and the levels being designed in that way usually results in a levels a lot more deep and intersting to navigate, especially when you can get most of the 7 stars of any course in any order. Backtracking can be good if done right. But I also like that any of the 50 given stars are totally optional, when making big games that encourage exploration, curiosity, and experimentation, it's important to allow the player to choose which tasks they do and don't want to do. For example I love slide levels, koopa races, bully fights, and braving the whole maps for 100 coins, 8 of them red. But plenty of people probably don't, so they don't have to do that.

I also really enjoyed 3D World, and wouldn't mind a successor to that, but another game like 64 is long overdue. Sunshine kind of did it but didn't offer you that same absolute freedom and mostly just wasn't as tight or well designed, and Galaxy went for something a little more trimmed down and linear, while still staying creative and expansive.

They ALL just love being mean.
She's actually pretty cool, talking to her in Rio. I'd hang with her.
Don't be let furfags ruin a neat character for ya.

The Stork who delivered Morton Jr
When he delivered him to Bowser he said "I'm Morton and here is the baby you wished" and Bowser went all "Hey what are you doin' beak face, ya think I have free time to play with babies? This baby is yours, Morton jr,here have it, your son, now take him and get outta here!

The stork just left
and that's how Morton got its name
or Myiamoto is Senior

...

When was the last time they used anything other than their first names?

Not him but I agree with most you said
Also I really want to collect everything without leaving the level. Including stars you can only collect before changing the level (ex: flooding one area). I can deal with something like replaying the level with another character to get the stars I couldn't with Mario since it will give at least more meaning to replay it.

Nintendo will not just do a 64-2, they'll want something big if they're going back to a 64-styled Mario. I bet they want something like Galaxy did in terms of "new" since the complaints 3DW had was all about the lack of that 3d immersive action

still a better plot than Paper Mario SS and CS
We trully are in the worst timeline

>I can deal with something like replaying the level with another character to get the stars I couldn't with Mario since it will give at least more meaning to replay it.
That I can't agree with, other characters should always be completely optional, you should be able to get all the game's content with just Mario. Forcing the other playable characters spreads things too thin, and is part of what ruined DK64 and SM64DS. The Sonic 3 route is best. Different play styles, same progression, a few optional paths but nothing major.

meant to quote

MK8 Iggy bio
>"The crazed mechanical Koopaling genius returns with his brothers and sister! Iggy’s solidly in the Medium weight class, and is good a match for Mario and Luigi."

MK8 Ludwig bio
>"Ludwig has followed his fellow Koopalings to the races, intending to compose his own victory anthem should he win... which as far as he’s concerned is the obvious outcome."

Anyone got the Ludwig and Roy animations from Rio 3DS?