It's good game design to have the player's hitboxes while rolling not match up with the player model's movement

Is that really what this thread is about? It's because the souls' 2d combat system works better with 'teleport' mechanics and a roll is a more palatable animation than blinking all over the place

Anons begin spitting fire if I suggest that tying iframes to a stat isn't an inherently bad idea even after I say DS2 didn't do a good enough job conveying that info to the player.

The concept of ADP may be fine but mostly it functions as a dump stat to make the problems from the hitbox desync disappear.

>problems
it exists so you can't dodge everything at level 1 regardless of when you press the dodge button. until you get your agility to 99 then it actually requires some skill. the enemies in the beginning aren't very difficult, and thus you don't need to be that good with dodging. the enemies later on are tougher, so you need to dodge more. is this hard to figure out for some people?

That's how it works in theory, but your hurtbox doesn't actually move with you when you roll so even if you physically avoid the attack you can still get hit -- no i-frames involved.

I'm not complaining that base AGI doesn't have enough i-frames. I'm complaining that you can take damage, even though you visually don't get hit, due to the hitbox staying still during your roll.

As you level ADP and increase your i-frames, this becomes less apparent.

that's... the point. you have less room for error at low levels. sure, it looks hilariously silly, but it works.

No, it doesn't work. It forces you to abuse i-frames instead of actually dodging the attack.

>it's a feature!

If an attack doesn't pass through your character model, you should not get hit. It's indefensible, and I highly doubt it was intended.

If they wanted you to have less room for error, they should have made it start with zero i-frames but a perfect hitbox.

>abuse
it forces you to use the iframes, and teaches you not to spam roll mindlessly because you don't get instant one million iframes like das1 and 3
as I said, it looks silly, but works in practice. unless you can't get good, I can see why you would complain then. as for it not being intended, they patched the game multiple times, rebalancing poise, spells, etc., if agility didn't work as intended, they would have changed it.

>it forces you to use the iframes
Why is this a good thing?

>and teaches you not to spam roll mindlessly because you don't get instant one million iframes like das1 and 3
See . Nigga, I don't give a fuck about the i-frames, it's the hitbox that is unacceptable.

>working as intended

> if agility didn't work as intended, they would have changed it.

This is FromSoft, user.

I'm afraid you're arguing against the very core of the souls series' combat system now. If you don't like using iframes to dodge attacks, you probably shouldn't be playing it.
"""""""""""""""""""""Poise"""""""""""""""""""""" is working as intended in 3, at least in the fucked up way miyazaki intended it to work. He didn't want the poise system from des, 1, or 2, now it acts as a multiplier on hyper armor. Like it or not, it's working as intended.

Every other fucking Souls game (and BB) don't make attacks hit you when they don't touch the player model, except with >shockwaves. DaS2 is the ONLY ONE that forces you to use i-frames because the hitbox is broken and you can't actually use a dodge roll as a dodge roll.

Sure, all the games are designed around having i-frames, which I don't mind. But that's irrelevant to the broken hitbox.

Am I conversing with that fabled poster on Cred Forums who hasn't played the game he's posting about? Eventually, with enough agility, you reach the amount of iframes in the other games, and beyond. I think it works nicely by weeding out shitters who can't get past the last giants or the dragonrider because they don't have the most forgiving dodge in the world at the start. But for experienced players, it's a simple matter of beating a few bosses, pumping ADP so your agility hits 99, giving you 14 iframes, and forgetting about it for the rest of the game.

Have you circled back around to "you don't like broken hitbox mechanics therefore you suck at the game" or are you a different user who can't read a reply chain?

You're fucking retarded. I would be happy if the game gave you zero i-frames but a perfect hitbox. As it is, you can't roll to dodge an attack, you have to roll so that your i-frames make you invincible. If you roll "too early", you still get hit even though the attack doesn't hit your player model.

You haven't seemed to acknowledge this fact.

DARK SOULS IS AN RPG.

END OF DISCUSSION. YOU MAY ASWELL GET MAD THAT IT TAKES A STR INVESTMENT TO WIELD A GREAT AXE.

ADP IS THE DODGING STAT. EVERY PROPERLY BALANCED RPG SHOULD HAVE IT'S CORE MECHANICS BASED ON STATS THAT DETERMINE HOW EFFECTIVELY YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH A GIVEN TASK.

dark 2 was strange in that the enemies are so slow, often times you don't even need to dodge. just backstep, wait, then mosey on back in for hits

About to play DS2 for the first time. Any thing I should know?

Is it really that bad?
Dark Souls 3 has a poise stat that actually does nothing

No, he just hasn't convinced me that he got past the forest, or even played the game.
If you had zero iframes, it wouldn't be a souls game, simple as that. Hitboxes are not From's strong suit, and removing iframes would literally break the games.
>As it is, you can't roll to dodge an attack, you have to roll so that your i-frames make you invincible.
That's literally rolling to dodge an attack. You're complaining about the core of the souls series' combat again. I don't understand.

Invest in ADP and raise your agility to 100 or 110 if you intend on rolling.

Please don't shitpost unnecessarily about things you don't know anything about.

Level agility to 99 (with the ADP stat) if you can't get good.

The it shouldn't have action game mechanics for it's combat dumb ass.

It does nothing for babbies who want to spam R1 with a straight sword to win. What it does do is make hyper armour more effective.

Max retard. According to you, it is acceptable to make attacks that do not hit the player (not even talking about shockwaves) do damage.

You shouldn't be allowed to talk about ADP until you complete a SL1 run.

>If you had zero iframes, it wouldn't be a souls game, simple as that.

That's not what he said or what he's complaining about. Instead of question whether or not he's played the game, we should question if you aren't some sort of chatbot that only pretends to understand English.

Nah, you should just grow the fuck up and accept that you're playing an RPG wrong.

Getting upset about ADP is -literally- the same as getting upset about END or VIG or STR or INT. It's an RPG. It asks for stat investments in exchange for abilities.

Is it important? Can I just block?

Of course you can just block.

Some of the bosses will be hard like that though. Mostly in the DLC, but whatever. Fume Knight is horrible without rolling.

You can dodge everything at minimum soul level for most classes.

You can block (this isn't Dark Souls 3), but you wouldn't want to be a turtle-shitter, right?

using a shield is easy mode in DS2, don't use it