The Boss

if that's his only crime, then compared to the last couple of real-world presidents, he's doing pretty well.

He was a child-soldier himself so it evens out anyway

If he's capable of creating self sustaining AIs controlling every aspect of modern human life, he would have had the power to do whatever he pleases a long, long time ago. Probably the biggest issues that Patriots have created were the people that did not try to do what Patriots have wanted them to do. There's no direct issues with the Patriots themselves

>Probably the biggest issues that Patriots have created were the people that did not try to do what Patriots have wanted them to do.

because they did not want to bend to the whims of their creator

>There's no direct issues with the Patriots themselves
except the AI became the Patriots

Big Boss did kind of follow that route. He was uniting soldiers.

What was he doing during MGSV?

The CIA and ocelot were the catalysts, the boss just went 'muh duty' and allowed these things to keep happening because of the chance that not doing it could lead to world war 3. Which is fair enough, I guess.

Solidus was the only hero of the series though

>Mary sue
>Lost everything she cared about piece by piece
>Used up by the government and thrown away
>She is introduced in the same game she's destined to die

Are you retarded?

>Betrayed her country

Oh yes you are.

But yeah solidus was the best.

And making them mercenaries. Also throughout the course he realizes it ain't so simple, and he has to make choices with political impact. In the end he ends up building his own nation in Zamzibar. So much for no nations policy.

solidus was right, but the patriot AIs weren't wrong either

Original patriots were the issue, because they were human. With petty rivalries grows conflict. With AIs there's no shit like this. Even if the modules are independent for the most part, they still conform to the united idea they've created. Human-controlled shadow governments are full of problems the AI has no idea about. Solidus was against humanized patriots, he didn't know it was the AI.

Patriots should have launched themselves into space a long time ago tho

That's politics.

>patriot AIs weren't wrong either

how? That speech is full of crap since they admit to controlling and manipulating information. That speech could be a big pile of lies.

MGS4 confirmed it was full of shit.

>Whats wrong with a secret society controlling the world from the shadows with no one to answer to
>Whats wrong with not having civil rights or liberties
>Whats wrong with letting beings who literally admitted that they're planning to control people individually on the subconscious level(S3 plan) take power when they've already destroyed a ton of lives with no care or remorse

Can you be anymore of a cuck?

They are explaining WHY they consider the information being controlled is needed and can be benefitial for everyone.
Not being advocate here but there is some reason in that. ANd we indeed live in such an age like they describe.

No user it is true. Thats exactly whats happening in the digital age. Its their methods that are full of crap. They're more or less the kind of villains that make good points but use that as an excuse for bullshit.

Guns of The Patriots

>They are explaining WHY
and what if that explanation is bullshit?

What good points?

Mary Sues often die in the same game / fanfic / etc they're introduced in. And then everyone misses them and cries over their passing. Especially the main characters of the fiction. That's one of their main tells.

>what if that explanation is bullshit?
What if it isn't? You pass the impression you didn't even bother to read the image that user posted.

Its just a copy-paste of the speech from the end of MGS2.

Which MGS4 rectons

I liked the Helios ending in IW, so why the hell not. The swarm mentality is the best future for humankind

>Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander...All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate
>political correctness and value systems
>metaphorical gated communities

Explain how thats bullshit.

I know what it is. And again, maybe you should read it again and look around in the society you live right now and think for a second.
Like another user said, they have good points even if you don't agree with their methods.

You don't know what that is moron.

Mary Sues are idealized, perfect characters. They have no flaws whatsoever. Thats not what The Boss is at all.

You disgust me.

You're being very strict about the term.
She is very much idealized in the MGS universe, so much that her ideology echoes through the protagonists of several games.
She is pretty much MGS's Mary Sue.

Go be disgusted somewhere else, shmuck. I'll take AI shadow governments over any other governments every time. It doesn't really matter whether they are shadow or not, what matters is the AIs decision making power. If they are in shadow it does make some things easier though.

She may be idealized by other characters but she herself is very flawed. Real people have done this with many historical figures as well.

Search up the term mary sue. The character themselves must be a perfect ideal entirely not seen as one by others while actually being deeply flawed.

MGS doesn't have any true villains senpai

>Lost her kid
>Had to kill her baby daddy
>Failed her mission
>Defeated in the end
>Remembered as a traitor
Fuck this Mary Sue bullshit, The Boss is literally the most shit on character in the MGS universe

After the coma im pretty sure Big Boss went "fuck the boss" intentionally because he had done the worst crime a soldier could make according to the boss. He cared about his soldiers more than the mission. Which is why he started to create outer heaven, a nation for soldiers.

I swear you must be the worlds biggest cuck or something. Yeah enjoy being a puppet forever. With no liberty or expression. While getting your mind fucked like a nasty whore.

The Dinè

>tfw you realize the boss was just globalist scum

Exactly. He thinks because others have idealized her within the mgs universe that thats the way shes written.

Why is that so funny? I don't get it. The dude is native american. Native americans are asshurt because their culture and people were virtually wiped out. Whats so wacky about that? No seriously why is it a meme?

She's not only idealized within the universe.

Look at the circlejerk she gets everywhere else.

For big cultures smaller cultures dying out is funny usually.

>implying Solidus isn't Norman Reedus in Death Stranding, going against the 5 aborted clones when being birthed as the survivor of the LET project (only the president knew the truth, everyone else thought he was born after solid & liquid)

>implying the whole thing between Kojima and KONAMI isn't a ruse

Same hair as young naked snake
Solidus born without a womb, no umbilical cord, inside a test tube
Aged face

Pic related is Big Boss when he was a teenager. Look at this and tell me this isn't Norman Reedus

you can't

What's the point of liberty and expression if only a limited number of people can enjoy it? Are you a billionaire that can do whatever he pleases? Do you run a popular social media account, that can reach millions? Or are you a cuck to your job, your money, your relatives and friends, your social status? What difference it makes that you typed all this shit here? Or are you just liking the "idea" behind it, despite having 0 chances or desire to actually exploit that idea?

PREVENT COPULATION

That still doesn't make her one. Jesus just admit you're wrong as fuck and virtually retarded already. I need to sleep.

The game only tells you how vilified she is in its universe. You never actually see people besmirch her character, she is always celebrated by anybody who mentions her.

Show don't tell. There's never a struggle of her status aside from what they tell you at the end of MGS3.

But I'm not. Go to bed and stop getting upset.

Can you be anymore of an idiot? Enjoy your overflow of digital trivial information. People like you are why the world is the way it is today.

He says it so many times in the game to the point of irritation. Other words too like 'wolbachia' and 'copulate'. He says enough times to be noticeably silly.

Because you are free to.

Are you fucking dense?

it's not so much the subject, but the frequency and delivery

I know she was undercover and wanted to spur Snake on to kill her but she didn't have to fucking throw him off a bridge and she didn't have to take his gun later.

He calls his people Navajo so much, but then randomly refers to them by their actual name in their own language.

There's no consistency or reasoning, other than it's just there to remind you HIS LANGUAGE DIED.

Pretty sure his language is fine. If his people and language had some trouble skullface wouldnt have much to extort him with.

>she didn't have to fucking throw him off a bridge
No, you're right. Better to let Volgin rape him with electricity right then and there.

>she didn't have to take his gun later
So just let him shoot her so she can't orchestrate and assist him from behind the scenes?

Solidus was the actual hero and you were manipulated to help the villains win.

Good job you understood what happened in MGS2.

And obviously the solution isn't to make use of those rights as much as you can but to fuck yourself over even harder?

>Or are you a cuck to your job, your money, your relatives and friends, your social status?

And you think that'll change with an AI shadow government? Even with that there are rights and opportunities you have a chance to exploit. Better than none and having mind games put on you since birth.

God you're a cuck.

why not though
they were enemies, she has no reason to be soft on him

I'd rather retards overflow society with bullcrap then get jewed around by AIs. You do something they don't like, you'll get a hit squad in your home that night and your body ends up in a river.

If you seriously advocate that bullshit why the fuck are you even on Cred Forums? The appeal of this site is you can share anything anonymously.

She saved him by throwing him from that bridge.
She even says after:"Flow away" or something like that. Boss knew she only broke enough bones to make a good scene but leave him alive.

>The Boss will never break your arm

Why am I such a masochist?

He wouldn't have shot her, idiot. She knew that. Taking his gun was an unnecessary handicap that could have fucked him over.

But they weren't enemies.

I guess that's a good point--she knew enough about anatomy and injuries to know he'd live.

>He wouldn't have shot her, idiot
>I know cuz I say so
t. Kojima

>Taking his gun was an unnecessary handicap that could have fucked him over
He's trained in survival and CQC.
Ever seen a fork only run?

You're talking shit m8.

>fork only run

How? You get the fork after volgin tortures you.

user stop arguing just for the sake of arguing

>what is New game +?

Okay, so I just watched all the plot cutscenes of MGS2. All 5 hours of it.

Now, I'm not disagreeing with what has already been said about Solidus or the AIs in this thread - all of that was gold.

But please tell me the game was good.

Because everything else was terrible: Fortune, Vamp, Ocelot's final monologue - I just kinda felt it all culminated with one giant "I FUCKING TROLLED YOU ALL".

The Liquid arm thing. I knew about the arm thing for years and laughed about it even though I only had heard about it. Actually experiencing it, watching it, was fucking painful. It's no longer dumb-funny, it's just completely stupid.

Is the canon explanation of that in MGS4 that Ocelot actually hypnotized himself to believe he was Liquid? Is that really the conclusion to that plot point? I saw the last fight in MGS4, I got the doppleganger thing, I just watched the genesis of all that and it hurt.

Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>He wouldn't have shot her
>later, he shoots her

???

No, due to his psychic father that was really Liquid, it's why he got a cybernetic arm in MGS4

>But please tell me the game was good

The gameplay is good throughout. The stealth is impressive. But the level design is a bit crap in the Big Shell.

>Fortune, Vamp, Ocelot's final monologue - I just kinda felt it all culminated with one giant "I FUCKING TROLLED YOU ALL".

Ocelot is supposed to be the rusemaster spy. Thats one of the best things about the character. That he can have such a threatening presence and be completely ridiculous at the same time. But yeah the dead cell were terrible villains. Try foxhound.

>The Liquid arm thing

If you're complaining about that then metal gear isn't for you. The series is supposed to have sci-fi/fantastical elements for occasional levity and cool boss fights.

I personally consider MGS2 one of the worse to replay. The story is cool and all but the game gets on your nerves, the codec calls are awfull, everyone is annoying, there's a lot of backtracking and repetition. I'd say only Peace Walker is worse, regarding main games.

>Is the canon explanation of that in MGS4 that Ocelot actually hypnotized himself to believe he was Liquid? Is that really the conclusion to that plot point?
Yes and no. He did hipnothize himself but this as well . MGSV creates the precedent for that plot point.

>>I know cuz I say so
He lowers the gun when he sees her, retard, and this is after she nearly killed him and after he learned it was his mission to eliminate her. He wasn't ready to kill her at that point and she knew that. Hell, he was barely able to bring himself to kill her at the very end of the game. You don't need Kojima to tell you these things, you just have to not be a literal autist and understand basic human emotions.

>He's trained in survival and CQC.
>Ever seen a fork only run?
>taking Snake's gun away from him wouldn't have made his mission much harder
>gameplay restrictions the player imposes on himself are canon
Goddamn, you are stupid.

>But please tell me the game was good.
It's not

It probably has my favourite Metal Gear plot, because I love conspiracies and shit, but the gameplay is pretty abysmal.

Its the Big Shell. Its too cramped and shittily designed. Yet the stealth was good.

>solidus did nothing wrong meme

>"I FUCKING TROLLED YOU ALL"
you just summed up the plot pretty well

daily reminder solidus followers are liberal fags

Are you telling me that ocelot flipping out on everyone wasn't god tier?

>still pushing the "Solidus was a good guy" angle

Dude had good intentions but was a fucking huge tool, how can anyone paint him in a positive light is beyond me.

>The Boss
>mary sue
>not Ocelot

Ok, user. Whatever you say.

Volgin was pretty much just some lunatic who wanted power for the sake of power.

Hot Coldman and Skullface might have had good intention but went about them in the worst, most destructive way possible.

Huey was a traitor and a coward.

Snake diving after the RAY was the single greatest moment in the series

>Okay, so I just watched all the plot cutscenes of MGS2.
kill yourself

>liberal
>for wanting to make america deliver on its ideals and promises not get jewed out by AIs

I swear I'm talking to an actual jew right now.

Jesus Christ.

I always knew Ocelot was some... I guess he was a triple agent in this game. He starts as a double agent betraying Sergei, then he goes triple when he betrays Solidus and then betrays himself when Liquid takes over.

I always knew about the arm thing. It was something to smile about. I just wasn't prepared to actually see its execution.

I've just had Metal Gear described to me by people who love it and I grew to love it from the stories people tell that I just sat down this past week and watched ALL of it.

I'm beginning to feel that it would have been better to enjoy the general plot from afar. I knew Ocelot was the king stupid rusemaster and how at the end in MGS4 he dies thinking he won but didn't.

I have to say, I understand why you guys are so angry about Ocelot in MGSV - I mean that's a legit betrayal after seeing him fuck around in MGS2 and MGS3. At the same time, I really enjoy the possibility or idea that the "real" Ocelot is actually an incredibly regular down to earth guy who loves Big Boss so much.

>but the gameplay is pretty abysmal

I started playing games yesterday: the post

What makes you think your opinion is worth sharing? You literally shouldn't open your fucking mouth if you're going to spout such dumb bullshit.

I don't know user
ocelot is respected and well regarded throughout the whole series, but honestly big boss is the only one who truly seemed to like him

>WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MEN; HE DIDN'T LOSE ANYTHING
>THIS IS THE ENEMY, AND HE'S HERE ON HIS KNEES
I didn't need anything from MGSV besides this moment and everything leading up to it. Watching your men salute you as they waited for you to make your decision was gut wrenching.

>Snake and Plitskin full of great moments
>you play as the faggy fuckboy
>instead of having broshakes with Otacon you have your naggy ex annoying you over the codec
Swear to god, MGS2 only exists to show us the finger.

Solidus was just trying to be a modern PW-esque Big Boss

>Watching your men salute you as they waited for you to make your decision was gut wrenching.
You mean, watching a cutscene where a non-character and two ruined characters do fuck all to Huey was pretty boring and a waste of everyone's time, since we knew he'd survive V thanks to canon.

>Ocelot was the king stupid rusemaster and how at the end in MGS4 he dies thinking he won but didn't

you've got this wrong
ocelot did "win" at the end of mgs4, just not in the way it was expected
his motives were held a little deeper and more secretly, and all he was really trying to do was free big boss and destroy the patriots, which he did succeed in doing

If I ever were to meet Patric Zimmerman all I would want from him is a clear recording of him screaming this in his Ocelot voice.

MGS2 has one of the most controversial execution (togethere with V) of them all though. Don't judge everything based on it.
I'd imagine you already played MGS1 since you went for 2. I doubt you had the same feeling with it. 3 also don't dissapoint. I'd even say it has the best cutscenes of the series.

>MGS2 only exists to show us the finger
took you that long to figure it out?

>(togethere with V)
lmao

They did show you instead of telling you. In fact you understand that she's a flawed character who did terrible things and made mistakes instead of there being a character telling you "she fucked up and did bad things though".

Besides, she's not the sole and constant focus of the story. Sure her character doesn't get besmirched by others, but there are long stretches of the plot where she isn't taken in consideration in the slightest.

>Shitting on raiden

Yeah screw you. Dude was a killing machine since he was a kid. The whole point was to have snake free himself and start fighting for what he believed in while raiden's perception of reality was twisted and he was controlled so that he could be an effective tool for the true villains.

>you play as the faggy fuckboy
Raiden's initial personality is a bit of a red herring as to who he actually is. As disappointing as Rose was, some of their conversations (such as the empty bedroom one) were incredibly telling about how fucked his past was and what a troubled individual he was underneath the faggy fuckboy look

Plus there's plenty of interesting and funny calls you can get from both Rose and the AI Colonel.

>MGS3
>Oh no the whole world will see The Boss as a great villain

>MGS4
>They released the documents from MGS3, everybody knows that Big Boss and The Boss are the greatest people in the universe and that CQC is even cooler than Steven Seagal Aikido

Do you know what I want. I want Dan Carlin to do a history show on the MGS universe.

Just some guy doing a historical run-down. I can actually hear it right now.

>but he was so badass off the cameras
Yeah, felt great to know that being awesome was off the scope of this game.

Raiden does plenty of impressive shit in MGS2, what the fuck are you talking about?

>Steven Seagal
He should really be a character at some point

>Mary Sue
>Is defeated
Uhh

>everybody knows that Big Boss and The Boss are the greatest people in the universe

No. No one knew who the boss was. Just big boss. Solid Snake, a longtime veteran and one of the best soldiers in the world didn't know who the fuck she was until eva explained her story.

Big Boss got praised because propaganda.

Did you ever pay attention?

Raiden kills 15 MP Rays in 5 minutes

They leaked all that shit at the end of MGS4 after FOXALIVE destroyed the Patriot AIs

I replayed the game this year. He doesn't.
Best scenes from the game is actually Snake or some villain doing something. Raiden is worthless.
Which was very engaging right? I remember the first time i played this battle, i was starting to believe i lost some event trigger because they never stopped coming and it was too simple to be true.

>betrayed her country

Did you even fucking play the game.

Oh yeah that time Raiden had a katana fight with a perfect clone of Big Boss after crashing a military nuclear submarine into the east coast was so boring lmao

>He doesn't.
He takes down a fucking fighter jet with a single STINGER launcher, defeats Vamp twice, doesn't die to Fortune, successfuly rescues Emma before Snake fucks up and lets Vamp stab her, kills Fatman and defuses all of his bombs, slaughters Tengu's alongside Snake, fucks up FIFTEEN MASSIVE FUCKING ROBOTS and then kills Solidus in a sword duel.

You haven't played anything.

smdh tbqh famm

He just thinks that way because of raiden's appearance. He isn't bearded and manly and gritty looking so he discards all his feats.

>I just kinda felt it all culminated with one giant "I FUCKING TROLLED YOU ALL".

"Even Ocelot wasn't told the whole truth."

He was just another pawn for S3 to work. Yeah he's the exposition character but in reality Liquid is using Ocelot's knowledge against the Patriots so it's not really "I trolled you all", more like "they trolled you all".

When? I don't remember that.

To be fair i love that part. But that doesn't redeem the amount of shit you have to endure to get there.

Oh yeah, the "You hate it because you weren't Snake" argument. Not because Raiden and everyone around him was a pain to endure while Snake still get the best moments. No, can't be right, context wouldn't be important.

Maybe you should replay it and tell me your experience. I played them all and replayed all of the games before playing MGSV this year. MGS2 was by far the most rage inducing of them all to replay. And while i replayed every other entry more than once, i have no intention of replaying 2 ever again.

>MGS2 was by far the most rage inducing of them all to replay.
MGS2 is a joy to play, especially on difficulties like Hard or Extreme where it actually requires you to know how to play, move and aim properly, etc.

Did you try not being retarded? Then you'd easily grasp shit like "press L1+Square to fire".

But ocelot was secretly rusing them. I mean he initally let liquid take him over

Yeah but that's beside the point. The location they gave Ocelot was even fake.

And why was he a pain? He pulled off impressive shit and his character was central to the story. I don't even understand why people bitch about the people around him? His relationship with Rose revealed the red herring shown to the player at the beginning of the game and highlights his psych.

So it was a ruse within a ruse that became an even bigger double ruse with an extra ruse added at the end to defeat the patriots?

What. I fucking love this character.

That reminds me of something. When does the dialogue between Miller and Ocelot at the end of MGSV happen? Is it post-Chapter 2, sometime after Miller's rescue and before the Truth, or do we really not know at all?

Wait so let me analyze this.

It was a ruse within a ruse because ocelot was pretending to be loyal to the patriots but the patriots were rusing him about the S3 plan.

It became an even bigger double ruse because ocelot was rusing everyone that he was liquid when he was in fact ocelot

The extra ruse is him getting snake to inadvertently help him take down the patriots which may also count as a double extra ruse because the patriots thought they were rusing snake but it was ocelot's ruse that was more impactful in the end.

Fucking shit ocelot is OP.

If you're talking about "Big Boss cango to Hell", it's after Chapter 2 but before The Truth, since The Truth takes place only a few moments before the fight at the end of Metal Gear 1

Yeah user, i'm retarded because i enjoyed my time with all the other games but not this one specifically that you enjoy. Clearly it can't be the game's fault. The game is perfect right. Big Shell ain't repetitive, the Bosses aren't retarded, your team isn't terrible, Raiden ain't a shit main character. People tend to forget the amount of conversation you endure in these games. Let me tell you, it's a fucking lot. And since i was replaying, i wouldn't skip them obviously. Without them i won't even debate the game goes tens of magnitudes higher in rating but that wasn't the point.

It's not Raiden in itself, is the context that he's put him. Raiden is a blank slate as much of Snake when you analyze, but he's put in a characterization where Snake is the guy you look up for and everyone around him treats him not only as a know nothing retard but also his most close people are annoying as hell. He never creates a good bound like Snake had with Meryl and Otacon for example or even it's enemies, like Ocelot, Liquid, etc.. It was just terrible to engage with Raiden. But understand that's not because of him, but how everything relates to him.
Sure you can say "BUT THAT WAS THE POINT YOU RETARD! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SEE...". Yeah, i get the point they were making with him being you, and Snake being the guy you'll never be, yadda yadda, etc.. Which goes back to my point, it's like this game only exists to show you the finger. I really had to force myself through it in some parts.

Stop it user, stop making this much sense. MGS2 is supposed to be our sikrit patrician club. They are not allowed to enjoy it on the same level as we do.

there's really no way to know, but I'm assuming it's somewhere a little later down the line

it doesn't make much sense for ocelot to wait that long to undergo his own hypnosis, tell kaz all about the plan so secret that he doesn't even want himself to know, and then forget all about it again until presumably big boss contacts him

I look at it as an epilogue. It happens after everything we experience in MGSV.

It is a bit of exposition that explains the schism that occurs within Diamond Dogs that we know for certain happens but aren't given the details to.

I think it was a nice way to end it. In my imagination Miller figures something out, confronts Ocelot about it, and Ocelot who has been given permission ahead of time to explain to Miller to calm him down, gives us the discussion we hear.

That being said, you can just as easily imagine it happens at the very beginning after Miller is rescued to brief him. Because he says, "We had better get used to co-existing." It would certainly explain the whole devil/angel dynamic Miller and Ocelot have going on.

He said in MGS2 that he trained Raiden and other kids in Africa in the 80s. A lot of people thought Venom Snake was him before V came out.

>Yeah user, i'm retarded because i enjoyed my time with all the other games but not this one specifically that you enjoy.
Precisely, you're retarded because for some reason you can't enjoy one of the tightest video games on the PS2 just because it has a blonde guy in it.

>Big Shell ain't repetitive, the Bosses aren't retarded, your team isn't terrible, Raiden ain't a shit main character.
All of these are objectively false. The bosses aren't "retarded", every single one of them aside from arguably Fortune is enjoyable and well designed.

Which would have been the second best plot twist, after Venom being Gray Fox

>for some reason
>just because it has a blonde guy in it
>objectively
Ok.

no it wouldn't
let it die

Ocelot filling in Miller about Venom's identity wouldn't make any sense with the rest of the plot. Miller absolutely believes Venom is Big Boss

Cool greentext, is it supposed to mean anything?

Look, I can get having a realy specific taste and not liking something, but don't pretend like you're capable of criticizing this game in any way. You can't just write "BOSSES ARE TERRIBLE" and expect to not get called a retard afterwards.

Knowing now what we didn't know then,it obviously wouldn't work. But both are far better concepts than "you're a schmuck in a helicopter, somebody put a bomb in the lasagna"

>Which goes back to my point, it's like this game only exists to show you the finger.

No, it exists to make you realize to not be mad about the bait and switch, and still enjoy the game in its own right, and that sequels will never compare to the original if they are not allowed to do their own thing like MGS2 did. I saved pic related from a previous thread, and it's explained really well.

I liked the codec convos and the relationship between the various characters, even though everyone is seemingly a backstabbing asshole. Every single character had a purpose and I liked them for what they were. You didn't, it's okay.

I don't expect anything from anonymous posting. You can call everyone whatever you want and i made my point. I don't care and no one cares if you agree or not. Discussing Metal Gear is fun regardless. And feel free to keep using strawmans as much as you want. It's common practice nowadays.

Then I guess we're just going to have to say, the "We better get used to co-existing" was a terrible line to include. Because you couldn't say that AFTER all they had gone through.

I'd rather disregard that line than think Miller doesn't truly believe Venom is Big Boss during the events of the game. And I only want to believe that because of how truly salty it would make him. Imagine going through all that struggle for Big Boss - losing your arm and such, rebuilding Mother Base, fighting Skullface, losing all the men to Huey's second betrayal, and then discovering this man isn't Big Boss.

That is some Shakespearean level tragedy right there.

USA

Don't get me wrong, earlier in this thread i said i do like MGS2 plot. I do like the plot and the whole overall arch they had for it. But like the guy who watched the cutscenes fell, seeing it in play is another thing entirely. And it's really not a fun experience to me. Rest of the games don't suffer from this issue though.

>and i made my point
You haven't made any fucking points though, you just kept repeating a variation of "x is bad" without providing any evidence or explanation why. You can't explain why the bosses are terrible, why the controls are bad, etc.

Hence why, you're incapable of criticizing this game, and nobody has been taking you seriously in this thread.

I wrote a lot already. I won't write an essay for you for responses like this . Live with it.

Suit yourself, fuck if I care. Keep in mind that until you learn how to argue your point, you won't change anyone's mind.

I don't know dude, MGS2 is also my favorite gameplay wise, it's like they finally perfected the puzzle formula from MG2 and MGS1, if the VR Missions are of any indication. They only thing they could have done without was the "free hit" tranquilizer gun.

I'm the guy who watched all the cutscenes and listened to all the codec stuff and plot things.

I'm glad I got to hear what you guys thought about the game. I feel like I grabbed a bit of opportunity to talk about the game with such passionate fans when it seems like most opportunities to do that have passed by.

It does have great gameplay and also a really cool AI. The map design doesn't help it shine as much as it could though. Which is funny, because you could even make a case that 2 AI and gameplay has more depth to it than 3 but the sequel shines more exactly because the whole level design makes it feel more engaging in comparison. It's a good topic to engage and i could see it going for both sides.

Read

>what if that explanation is bullshit?
>What if it isn't?

Your image only strengthens 's point.
Calling the explanation bullshit on no good ground is pointless, especially when what the AI talk about is very applicable to society today.

I'm entirely uninvolved in that discussion, user. I happily agree with the fact it reinforces the point.

I mostly just wanted to post the spy accusing a spy of baselessly accusing a spy of being a spy.

I was not comfortable with Ocelot saying this.

There was something irrationally chilling that things behind closed doors were not all right on Mother Base. Especially when everyone else unconditionally loved Big Boss.

Yeah, because he enacted 9/11 times 100 and crushed half of Manhattan with a giant techno-fortress.

>he enacted 9/11 times 100

Can you imagine if 9/11 happened two months later, after MGS2 just hit the stores? We would have the entire cutscene where AG drags the Statue of Liberty and devastates the WTC, and all of America would be triggered to no end, putting a indelible stigma on the series, stopping it right there.

No MGS3, MGS4 or MGSV. Kojima could actually move on to other things.

OK BUT HOW DID PEOPLE KEEP FALLING FOR OCELOT'S RUSE CRUISE

THEY HAD LIKE SEVEN CHANCES TO REALIZE THAT ALL OF HIS ACTIONS ARE JUST ONE BIG RUSE

>I'm gonna give people freedom from information control by cutting them off from sources of information outside the narrow radius of their living area. Oh and everything will pretty much go to shit as result of people panicking, criminals taking advantage and bad leaders realizing their time has come, organizing small communities where not only will information get filtered, but other freedoms will be forcibly taken as well. And while all this is happening I'll probably just walk away whistling, cause I don't want no power. Just eternal recognition. And cute little boys.

Truly a real patriot.

he's good at what he does
why are you so obsessed with this