Was he justified?

>the military controlled zones seemed like they did well until edgy faggots took over
except for the ever-dwindling supply of rations and increasing starvation rates which caused the kind of rebellions that resulted in the pittsburgh situation in the first place

It's the mushroom apocalypse. He ain't gotta justify shit.

The entire game shows you that "humanity" is now ugly, selfish, opportunistic and wholly degenerated.

Ellie is naive, optimistic and compassionate, and represents the last of the virtues that made humanity good in the first place.

Joel saved humanity by refusing to let that glimmer of light be sacrificed in order to allow humanity to persist a little longer as the grim shadow of what it once was, even if that wasn't his actual intention.

Yeah but at the end of the day the military was still serving the public y'know. Harsher world just called for harsher rules and looks like being soft on people gets you hung by guys that murder people just for trying to not die

If there was an option of killing Ellie I would have to ask this question to people that chose it. Those guys were literal retards and haven't done anything ever. In fact there are tons of evidence that the only think they can do is fucking shit up.

All in-game evidence suggested that the Fireflies would've been successful in developing a cure had they operated on Ellie.

I didn't actually expect to have to watch his daughter bleed to death

none of that means shit when the only thing the military ended up enforcing was their own position of power because food supplies were virtually depleted and people were literally starving

it's implied at the beginning of summer that they're sending people outside the quarantine zone to thin out the population

Trite nonsense. Joel condemned humanity by taking the only known immune girl away from the only known doctors and scientists that could've synthesized a cure.

Of course not.

He basically doomed all of humanity for one kid.

Joel did nothing wrong.

This isn't the Last Remnant you twat.

It's the Last of Us.

it wasnt going to work, that was heavily implied by the audio tapes

explain more plz

The audio tapes all said it WOULD work.

>The Fireflies wanted to kill him to prevent him from leaking their secret. Marlene said no, but there was no guarantee that they actually care about what she has to say
As other Anons said, he was as justified as anyone else.

People with good intentions would not kill someone whom hand delivered humanity's salvation.

Nice try fireflies

>All in-game evidence suggested that the Fireflies would've been successful in developing a cure
What evidence? Quite the opposite; there's literally nothing to suggest there would have been anything but a faint chance at cobbling something together.

Fuck off Firefly Internet Defense Force.

>ingame text saying the other subjects like ellie were failures
>might as well try again

you are wrong and gay

The in-game audio recording specifically states that Ellie is different from the other test subjects, she was unique.

thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/Surgeon's_Recorder

>Surgeon's Recorder
>April 28th. Marlene was right. The girl's infection is like nothing I've ever seen. The cause of her immunity is uncertain. As we've seen in all past cases, the antigenic titers of the patient's Cordyceps remain high in both the serum and the cerebrospinal fluid. Blood cultures taken from the patient rapidly grow Cordyceps in fungal-media in the lab... however white blood cell lines, including percentages and absolute-counts, are completely normal. There is no elevation of pro-inflammatory cytokines, and an MRI of the brain shows no evidence of fungal-growth in the limbic regions, which would normally accompany the prodrome of aggression in infected patients.
>We must find a way to replicate this state under laboratory conditions. We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny. All of our sacrifices and the hundreds of men and women who've bled for this cause, or worse, will not be in vain.

>Make cure
>Humanity is still doomed
>Mushroom people still eating everyone
>The cure wouldn't be distributed properly anyways
Of course none of this mattered to Joel in the first place.

Military was more "us vs them" mentality for the most part.

Joel's brother's group was the only non-fucked up set of people in that entire game. I think after all the shit he did with Joel in the backstory, he realized that farm was the only real way to rebuild humanity

the chances are low!!!

>ingame text saying the other subjects like ellie were failures
there is no ingame text pertaining to other immune subjects

that was literally a lie joel told ellie so he didn't have to tell her about being a selfish cunt

It MAY have worked. MAY. There is literally nothing to state that there was any absolute certainty that it would have created a vaccine. You're grasping at straws.

he didn't have to kill the doctors

They only wanted to kill him after he tried to stop them from doing the operation. Marlene intervened and instead they tried to escort him out. And it turned out they were right, he was a problem and did end up killing all their doctors and scientists.

And this is why the only reasonable conclusion is "Joel did the right thing for all the wrong reasons".

Why didn't they just take a bit of fluid and blood and work with that?

Why do they kill the people who could be used for serums?

>Vaccine couldn't be synthesized because previous test subjects had flaws
>New test subject shows up without any of those flaws
>Y-YOU'RE GRASPING AT STRAWS THERE'S NO CLEAR INDICATION
Of course there wasn't absolute certainty you retard, there never would be, but that doesn't justify murdering anybody that could possibly create the vaccine and running away with humanity's best hope of recovery. Joel didn't do what he did for any good reason, he did it because he's a lonely old man who had everything taken from him and decided to take something back from the world.

TLOU2 WHEN?!?

I didn't even realize you could stab him, I just shot him. and then I shot the other doctors and then immediately questioned my reasoning for doing so

He can actually just ignore the other two and leave but FUCK DOCTORS

Or go reread what the previous retard (or you) were saying implying that it would have totally worked.

>We're about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. After years of wandering in circles, we're about to come home, make a difference, and bring the human race back into control of its own destiny.

All that's left are fringe paramilitary groups like Fireflies, the faltering remains of government forces, raiders and cannibals and worse, and isolated pockets of "good" people who want nothing to do with any of the former.

Ellie's death wouldn't save humanity. Humanity isn't dying because of Cordyceps. It's dying because humans are bastards.

Yes he was.

Humanity could eventually push back the zombies with a draft, and pussies wouldn't have to fear getting turned into mushrooms.

I really would like a sequel but I'd like it to focus the narrative on a different character or characters. Joel and Ellie's story ended with them joining Joel's brother and an uncomfortable secret looming over Joel until his dying day.

TLOU's ending was morally ambiguous for the sake of it. It's literally that easy to get game journalists to suck off your product.

Do any video games have actually good stories?

>Humanity isn't dying because of Cordyceps.
It literally is. Society wouldn't collapse if it weren't for the highly contagious fungus that's turning people into zombies all over the planet.

Literally never says that.

Because it's not her blood they need, they need to study the Cordyceps in her brain specifically to see why it didn't take over. There's no way to study the growth in her without killing her, but in doing so, they'll understand why it affected her differently and will be able to synthesize a cure.

Remember, this isn't like some mico-bacteria in your blood stream, this is a foreign fungus that plants spores in your brain and grows enormous, taking you over.

No. Much in the same way that Brad from LISA was not in the right. While they both had good intentions about the people they cared for, they both ultimately were acting for themselves.

I thought this game was way too long.

Because the infection grows throughout the brain, and her samples were no different to other infected. The only way to know what made her immune was to remove her brain and study its growth patterns.

This in itself is just further evidence that they couldn't have done anything with Ellie alone. They'd study her brain, realize that it's just a freak mutation, and if there wasn't anything they could have learned from her blood or spinal fluid, there was no hope of getting anything useful from her at all.

>society wouldn't collapse

that's the thing though. It already did.

>It already did.
Yes, because of the fungus, not humanity. Try to pay attention.

>Ellie is naive, optimistic and compassionate, and represents the last of the virtues that made humanity good in the first place.
I guess she really was the last of us.

>Push back the zombies with the draft
The fuck are you smoking?
Most of humanity was infected in the first place.

A few survivors are not going to push back billions of mushroom monsters and ammunition is limited to boot.

Cities are literally a lost cause because of how much shit there is inside of them.

Having said that the cure would be nice, but it isn't enough to fix things as shit got too far gone.

People are dying because of cordyceps. The concept of humanity, as opposed to animal barbarism, is dying because people are reverting to primal, tribal mentalities and are now far too scattered for a cure to have any meaningful impact.

The biggest impact a cure would have is the resource war it would inevitably spark,

WHOA

Oh yeah, it were the fungus shooting Joel and trying to kill him during the whole trip

That's a completely subjective question and statement and you know it.

>They'd study her brain, realize that it's just a freak mutation
But not necessarily a mutation that couldn't be duplicated. Maybe some part of her medulla oblongata had calcified for some inexplicable reason, utterly harmless to her, but also stopping the cordyceps. They could then come up with some technique to calcify everyone's stems similarly and make them immune.

Shut up bitch

You cheeky son of a bitch

>literally the only person who's immune to the fungus's nastier effects
>aka the only sample for a possible vaccination
>"fuggit, scoop her brains out all in one go lol :^)"

Fireflies were retards. Joel did the right thing, even if it was for the wrong reason

You wouldn't be able to give me a good answer is all I know for sure.

So... what? You think civilization was collapsing anyway and the fungal infection just coincidentally happened right as the entire world fell apart for no reason? Good timing, huh?

Fuck humanity.

We're talking about society collapsing user. That was due to the fungus. At least try to pay attention.

They explained why they needed to study her brain and why a blood sample wouldn't work.

You being too stupid to pay attention to the plot doesn't suddenly mean that the parts you didn't understand are suddenly plotholes.

So if it grows in the brain what could a cure actually do to prevent it?

What if it was something that can't be injected but the person has to be born with it instead?

That's because you're extremely close-minded and won't like anything unless it is of the highest unknown niche caliber, you pissant. Go back to playing lost isos and other bullshit you think is deep.

>Pittsburgh on the ocean
>Wyoming as wet as the Cascades
>Giraffes surviving 20 Utah winters

This game was geographically retarded

>They explained why they needed to study her brain
Maybe studying the subject for longer than a few hours would be a good idea, instead of invasive surgery that would kill their only test subject. They literally come to the conclusion to scoop her brains out just before Joel wakes up, which couldn't have been more than a few hours. Amateur hour.

Then they create a synthetic block based around whatever evolutionary trait Ellie had. Like what he said:

>Joel delivers the goods as promised
>Queen Firefly doesn't even honor the fucking original deal and offer Joel his loot

They had it coming. The Fireflies were fucking cunts.

Well I'm glad I managed to upset you but I'm really not interested in someone who thinks TLOU had a good story.

I think pussies would be more afraid of getting eaten alive or having their faces squished in by giant mushroom men when infection is no longer on the table.

They had her before, remember? They studied her as much as they could and determined that there was nothing they could do without surgery facilities. That's what the whole trek was over, remember?

I mean, I'm sure with your gender studies degree, you'd know better than the remaining scientists and doctors in the world who have been spending the last few decades focusing solely on finding a cure what's necessary.

There was literally no reason they couldn't have kept her alive to study her physiology for a protracted period instead of cutting her melon open the very same day she was delivered to them.

If they had the resources to distribute any cure they might have found, they would have had the means to protect her while they did non-lethal tests.

Nobody is disputing what caused the downfall of civilization. The matter at hand is that humanity summarily proved itself to be a bigger threat to its own existence than the fungal plague.

Nice projections. How about I turn this around and ask you what you think a good story is? Show the class your taste. Don't mention anything that isn't completely black and white either because that's all just bullshit bad storytelling to appeal to reviewers, as you said.

If you shoot them in the gut with a weak gun like a 9mm, they will fall to the ground and slowly bleed out (if you don't finish them off first).
They're the only "enemies" in the game that can be mortally wounded like that

>They had her before, remember?
No where does it state they had any scientists or anyone examining her in Pittsburgh. All they knew was she was immune, they didn't have a single clue why or that surgery was required. You're just pulling shit out of your ass.

NieR has a good story. So does Pathologic.
Ghost Trick
Ace Attorney Investigations 2
The World Ends With You.
Planescape Torment.

Yes, after humanity was nearly wiped out and small roving groups of starving people began to compete for what resources were left in the wake of the infection, humanity became a danger to itself on par with every other animal species out there.

Those of who you ever end up having children will suddenly find yourselves incapable of questioning Joel's actions.

>Nobody is disputing what caused the downfall of civilization.
see Try to follow the conversation user.

I've never had a child and I'm already extremely protective of children

Pittsburgh was one of their main bases, it's where their leader was for fuck's sakes.

Did you fuckers watch Star Trek II?
The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few... or the one.

It's kind of funny how they barely gave a fuck about their "leader"

Why didn't they just do a fucking brain biopsy on her? They had the equipment

I've never had a child and the only reason I give a shit about kids is that I get to troll all my friends' offspring.

This.

Parental insticts >>> actual reason/logic

Ellie functionally became Joel's daughter after Sara. She filled that void that was left there.

Now, with humanity in that state, do you really think a cure would have any meaningful effect whatsoever?

TLOU is a bad story because it's cheaply emotionally manipulative(that's what gets the reviewers and dumbdumbs jizzing over it) and ultimately meaningless.

Do I have to mention a video game story? I implied that video games have bad stories remember?

I think you mean Boston

When the cure for the plague was discovered? Obviously. She still led them, but she doubted that if she tried to come between them and the cure that they wouldn't kill her too.

That's not a lack of loyalty, that's human self-preservation.

Sure. We have no idea how many people are left, and how many towns and settlements are still functioning like Joel's brother's. There could be hundreds of thousands or even millions of people left still.

Except a single sample isn't going to give them shit, retard, and the fact that they immediately jumped to "let's use our only sample all up immediately without exploring any other alternatives (like, say, whether her offspring possess the same traits)".

Plus, did you notice how fucking dingy and underequipped their lab was? I seriously doubt they would have gotten much further than "dissect her brain". You firefags talk about easily engineering a replication of whatever mutation made ellie immune, when they're relying on salvaged pre-apocalypse equipment (to the point where the only way they can think of to try and get a better picture of her brain is to cut it out, rather than open surgery, MRI/CT/some other imaging, or any other modern medical technique that they clearly lack the access to.

>Pittsburgh was one of their main bases
And? What does that have to do with anything? No where does it say they studied her beforehand and determined the brain surgery was necessary.

The entire fucking reason Marlene palmed Ellie off to Joel and Tess was to get her on the road to the one place where they could actually study her. The only thing they knew before they got her to the hospital was that she was immune, because only a hospital has the kind of equipment necessary to do so.

Come on, user. Basic shit.

Wtf constitutes a good story then? You're just a pedantic little cunt and want to be above everyone, aren't you?

I've got More Than A Feeling you might be right. As long as Joel has some Peace of Mind, I'd approve of his decision and tell him Don't Look Back. He could just take up Smokin', travel away with Ellie, give her a false name like Amanda, and live for a Long Time.

>doomed humanity over a mudshark

I hope Joel ended up getting killed in a slow and agonizing way after the game ended.

I just want good stories in video games, ok? You need to learn to grow up.

>Game opens in Austin/Travis County
>Literally my home
>Don't get to play where

thanks

and maybe in all that they could find the time to squeeze in a little Foreplay

How the fuck would she have offspring, retard? Remember, the spores are passed through bodily fluids, which is why a bite is fatal. So, even if they forced her to artificially inseminate, she'd still pass the spores to her child with no guarantee it would be immune and wouldn't kill her from the inside out.

I mean, nevermind how you piss and moan about how unethical the surgery is, but to force an underaged girl into a breeding chamber to pump out baby after baby while they search for a cure?

>Plus, did you notice how fucking dingy and underequipped their lab was? I seriously doubt they would have gotten much further than "dissect her brain".
These are the last doctors and scientists alive. They've all been working specifically on this virus for decades. If anyone is capable of doing it, it's them.

You still haven't stated your taste or mentioned any good stories.

Easily. Not even a question for debate.

Setting aside the issue of whether or not Ellie's particular form of immunity to the cordiceps spores could be turned into a vaccine and/or cure aside, Marlene and the Fireflies were willing to kill Ellie, knowing they had a low chance of success, without giving her the ability to choose to die for them or not (regardless of what choice she would have made) or giving her the chance to say goodbye to Joel (which, realistically, she would have probably chosen to take).

Setting all that aside, the Fireflies were also stupid enough to tell Joel exactly what they were going to do. In a crapsack world where it's established that he makes the various raiders and scumbags of the world look like kittens compared to him, they told him flat out they were going to kill a young girl he'd spent the last year guarding without her consent.

If Ellie had chosen to voluntarily die for the chance at a cure but Joel saved her anyway, he'd be morally ambiguous about it if she knew the chances of success were low.

If she was made to make the choice without knowing the Firefly scientists didn't really have a clue whether shit would work or not, he'd be a heroic figure.

Stopping a bunch of psychotic mad scientist fucks from cutting open a completely ignorant young girl's skull on the off-chance it might provide immunity against a bite wound which is fatal almost every time and a fungal infection which can be averted entirely by gasmasks is, put lightly, downright heroic.

Marlene was a fucking psycho and the doctors who agreed to the surgery were hilariously desperate. Nothing they did during the final act of the game can be remotely justified outside of some Deus-Ex Mechina cure coming from Ellie's blood, despite the horrifically dirty operating room and some Hollywood-level bullshit science to justify jumping from asymptomatic girl to world-wide cure.

So how would they distribute it? Walk up to settlements and go "It's okay, we've got a cure!"?

Would YOU believe that?

Joel is a piece of shit.

Fireflies are known across the United States. Put out word that they have a vaccine / procedure to make people immune. They begin consolidating their power in Salt Lake City and once things are stable, sure, they can start reestablishing communication with other settlements and setting up local physicians with the materials and knowledge to perform the procedure for their people.

That would mark the Third Stage of their relationship.

Uh I thought all taste was subjective? Why are you having so much trouble accepting my opinion?

If you save your enemies, they win.

I appreciate the efforts that went into this. Have a (you) and my gratitude

Actually that's a good point. The Fireflies were literally, knowingly, outright going to murder a little girl based on a theory just to extend their own lives.

utilitarians HATE him

>not answering the question
So I guess I'm right then?

>knowing they had a low chance of success

It never says low chance of success. The reverse is heavily implied, that they've come close before but without the X-factor of Ellie's immunity, they couldn't do it. Now that they have it, all their reports suggest it's a certain thing.

You've devalidated your whole argument by building it off a faulty premise.

How do you expect to be given good game stories when you don't share your taste for others to have something to relate with? Why are you shoving your opinion somewhere it obviously doesn't belong while having no ability to back it up?

Fuck off shitposter sama

I can always have more children, I'd sacrifice them to save humanity.

Is it unusual to say this while having two children?

t. Firefly scum

>The Fireflies were literally, knowingly, outright going to [kill] a [teenager] based on [scientific research] just to [save humanity].

FTFY

They're known, but what evidence is there that they're remotely held in any kind of acclaim? It's never once said how the rest of the general population views the Fireflies. The only impression we're given, before we see the hospital itself, is that they're some kind of rebel militia.

There's nothing to lend them any credibility, in or out of universe.

>Those two black guys you teamup with for a bit

I was just starting to fucking like them when that shit happened

Well this is your "so there" post I can tell from the structure so I won't bother actually responding to it.

If humanity was the kind of people you saw in Pittsburgh, would you really sacrifice your own kids for them?

I always assumed if they couldn't even get a brain biopsy without killing the patient, how are they going to produce a cure let alone mass produce it?

No, all parents have the subconscious desire to kill their children, it's a common thought.

It's only a problem if you start planning on acting on that thought.

Source: I lived with a psychologist for three years and several of my friends are parents. So take my post with a pinch of salt.

Except the core of his argument comes from the fact that they were going to operate on her without her consent.

Murder. Outright murder. She did not consent, she was not given the choice to consent. They forced her into an operating room with intention to kill. That is murder. She's like 14, that's a little girl. Their research is also based on years of diminishing hope and desperation for a cure and there's no way in hell they'd share a cure with the military or anybody not on their friend-list since they were just as ruthless as the scavengers.

Nah, he's leaning slightly on the Right. Maybe Center, but definitely not Justified

>all parents have the subconscious desire to kill their children, it's a common thought.

You're given the impression they have scientists and doctors throughout the whole game. Hell, you find logs from their doctors long before you get to the hospital. Evidence the entire way across the country that they're working on a cure.

And their reputation were the Dudley Do-Rights in most quarantine zones. They were the ones fighting to end military rule, but weren't murderous like the ones that took over some zones. Which is why they so easily got wiped out.

And besides, regardless of whether people believe them or not, if people hear someone has a cure, they'll head that way.

She wanted to die for something.
Said so in the last scene with Joel.

But you just did

Sure, humanity can always recover from everything but extinction.

>Put out word that they have a vaccine
>Military comes in to stomp them and take over
>Bandit leaders come in to try and steal it
>Thinking things can become stable when everyone is trying for a power grab right in the middle of TLoU
I don't think so

>emotionally manipulative
It only feels "manipulative" if you are already actively making an effort to resist any emotional investment or reaction into the plot / characters for personal reasons; where you have to keep reminding yourself, "It's not actually good. They're just trying to manipulate me."

You are absolutely retarded. This isn't the guy you're responding to, just someone that's been reading your posts. You need to go to a doctor and get that autism checked, bud.

Y'know, I get the whole moral outrage of taking a life without consent, but you two are being edgelord faggots by pretending that the lives of all of humanity INCLUDING THE GIRL aren't worth the sacrifice.

She doesn't have a future either way. Either she does the surgery and they save humanity, or they don't, and because of her condition she can't have kids and will eventually die anyhow.

It's not supposed to be a choice you're happy about, it's intended to be a bitter pill to swallow. But it's necessary.

It's not even close to "heavily implied". It's outright stated that previous attempts were abject failures that yielded nothing useful. The only thing Ellie's immunity offered them was the knowledge that it was possible to be immune, and literally nothing more than that. Even their studies of her turned up nothing but the knowledge that "well, her blood behaves exactly like regular infected, there must be something special going on in her noggin".

They're called Intrusive Thoughts. Pretty much everyone has them. If you're telling me you haven't thought "I could kill/seriously injure someone", "I could veer into traffic moving the other way and kill myself", "I could probably get away with raping someone" at some point in your life you're lying. Psychologists regard them as perfectly normal, most people have them and go on with their life.

It's not an argument of ethical you fucking mong, it's an argument of effective. even if pregnant ellie gets killed by her baby, they'd get their scooped out brain anyway. jumping immediately to "fucking kill her for her brain" when they have the rest of her life to

>These are the last doctors and scientists alive. They've all been working specifically on this virus for decades. If anyone is capable of doing it, it's them.

That doesn't automatically make them good. Good scientists would know better than to stake their only sample on an unproven line of research.

The Fireflies were unaware of this conversation nor was Ellie in the right state of mind for that after hacking a guy's head to pulp. They didn't ask Ellie if she wanted to die that day for the chance to make a cure. They rushed her into an operating room like a lamb to the killing floor, then attempted to murder Joel even before he went on a warpath.

Joel did the in character thing, definitely. My only problem is that I was expecting him to die somehow after saving her and instead they get to the settlement perfectly fine. There's no closure and it really makes Joel super OP to survive everything at the end.

>It only feels "manipulative" if you are already actively making an effort to resist any emotional investment
Different user here, that's obviously a bullshit argument. I won't comment on whether TLOU is manipulative or not, but it's quite clear that a person can identify emotional manipulation even without actively trying to avoid emotional investment. Plus, avoiding emotional investment - intentionally or not - gives you a much better chance of identifying emotional manipulation.

Everyone is fucked anyway
The most logical thing to would be to let Eillie fuck a bunch of guys let the mcum inside her let her have a bunch of kids who all go on to fuck other non related people until we are all immune to it

It's the opposite of being edgelord for wanting her to have a say in the matter
It's being edgelord for doing it regardless of how she feels, even though all evidence would show she would happily do it
At least try to use the right word next time
And you aren't wrong just because you used the wrong word in this context

This is the stupidest fucking semantically minutiae I've ever been roped into arguing about.

>s-so what if they cure it, it would be hard to distribute!

Fine, put a looped recording on every radio station they can find detailing how to cure it. Print out a billion phamplets and drive them to every corner of the world. Whatever gets it out there.

I constantly think about pushing tourists into oncoming traffic. They deserve it.

>Trusting a bunch of violent retards to save humanity or even create enough doses of a cure for everybody or even managing to get it distributed

Her surviving was the best scenario because it keeps a small glimmer of """"innocence""""" still alive in a humanity filled with scumbags.

>I could throw my gameboy out the window RIGHT NOW
>It would be decimated
>Parents would probably be so pissed
>They might even pull over and try to get it
>Man, it'd go terribly
>But still, I could do it RIGHT FUCKING NOW

;)

You say this because you're completely unaware of the cheap ways that stories like this attempt to manipulate the viewer. TLOU would not even pass as oscar bait.

Fans of this game are always so angry. Please calm down, random user.

She never said she wanted to die. She just said that walking away from it all before they'd even gotten there, after everything they'd been through, wasn't an option.

>Trusting a bunch of violent retards to save humanity
To be fair, that's what pretty much every human does today.

That post wasn't saying it's hard to let people know.
That post was saying that the inevitable war over the cure will be the issue.

Did you reply to the wrong post?

>I could throw my gameboy out the window RIGHT NOW
>It would be decimated
No it wouldn't, it's made of Nintendium.

>Print out a billion pamphlets
With what powered printers, what ink cartridges, what paper reams, what huge staff to handle and operate this and who to distribute it and who to find every populated area and put it up?

your bait is weak as shit but I have to applaud you on somehow pulling this many (You)s in spite of it.

>condemning every little girl and little boy, every baby and pregnant woman, every old man and elderly woman, every good person and evil person, everyone just trying to make it is TOTALLY okay because Ellie has to be asked for consent first

No. We're not talking about the ethics of killing millions to save billions, we're talking about the ethics of killing one to save EVERYONE.

The moral thing to do is to perform the surgery. And it would've been cruel to put the question to Ellie in the first place. What kind of mindfuck is that for a young girl?

"Hey, you can say no, you're just killing everyone and trivializing all the lives sacrificed to get you here. I'm sure you can live with yourself every time another person dies to a bite that you could've prevented and didn't."

She either goes to surgery terrified about dying, or she lives with the guilt of condemning humanity forever.

Not telling her and taking the burden of the sin on themselves to do what had to be done for EVERYONE was the noble act.

lol

>I can just turn around and shoot everyone at the shooting range
>I'd probably be able to kill a few people before anyone did anything about it
>There's absolutely nothing stopping me from doing it
Knowing you have the power and ability to relatively easily kill people is such a spooky feeling.

>bait
This means you cannont accept other viewpoints, yes?

>guy bitches about arguing over minutiae
>respond quibbling over generators, despite the tons seen in game
>every printing house must have been ransacked by looters looking for reams of paper and ink, right?

Joel saved Ellie because he believed humanity was doomed and he figured he'd be best off having a child to groom for sex so he could fuck the days away until his inevitable death.

there's no sense trying it on with me, user, I'm already loving the show

just keep on doing whatever you're doing because people actually falling for it is beautiful

No.

But Frank was; he's covered wars, you know?

youtube.com/watch?v=FUBatQpifaU

Are you a communist

At the end of the day their edgy retardation got all of them killed by trying to fuck the guardian angel over

>have opinion
>post it
>"surely you jest!?"
Is this a new thing? What was it like to argue before the bait meme?

>Prologue starts
>Man, this is cool as shit
>Events happening during the apocalypse and not after is so cool and so rarely done
>Fades to black
>20 years later
Fuck, why can't there be a single movie or game that shows everything going to shit and the protagonist tries to survive during it? Why is it always after everything interesting? Why did they make some gay DLC about Ellie and not about Joel right after the prologue?

This might be the most autistic post in all of Asperger Land.

A VACCINE WOULD BE TOO LITTLE TOO LATE

HUMANITY IS ALREADY DOWN TO THE LAST DREGS AND ALL A VACCINE WOULD DO IS GIVE THEM SOMETHING ELSE TO RAPE, PILLAGE AND MURDER FOR

ELLIE SAID IT CAN'T ALL BE FOR NOTHING

HER DEATH WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR NOTHING

Because that'd be the hardest part to make

It is true that the Fireflies didn't consider her say on the matter, but them trying to kill Joel before he tries anything is bullshit.
> Hey, wait. Back in Boston -- back when I was bitten -- I wasn't alone. My best friend was there. And she got bit too. We didn't know what to do. So...she says "Let's just wait it out. Y'know, we can be all poetic and just lose our minds together." I'm still waiting for my turn.
> Ellie...
> Her name was Riley and she was the first to die. And then it was Tess. And then Sam.

>lose your kid
>try to redeem yourself by protecting another kid

Too cliché to make me care. I have seen that shit story multiple times already and it lost its effects after the first time.

Everyone who dickrides the whole ''Father-Daughter'' fad can go fuck himself.

oh user, you've already made it far too obvious to try pulling that now

but I respect you for trying, I hope someone falls for it

I hated the prologue. But you're right, they skipped over the good bits. Because that would require effort and skill.

No, what you did is
>claim to have opinion
>asked what that opinion is
>not tell anyone, because the truth is you're just trying to be a contrarian

objectively, no
but it was a very human thing to do

People are always so convinced that the desperate fireflys with the world in shambles can somehow develop, synthesize, and distribute a "Cure" for this new and constantly evolving fungus. I don't get it. Even if they COULD make a cure, they wouldn't have the resources to distribute. Even if they DID have the resources to distribute a cure, what do you think they'd do with it? Just start handing it out? No, they'd use it to take over the rest of the world and become as corrupt and fucked up as any selfish organization in that world.

And besides, the "Cure" itself is ridiculous. People who have already turned cannot be "cured" and since most people have already turned all they are doing is making it easier for those rare humans who get the immunization to live easier (before they are killed by other humans anyway).

>implying TLoU required no effort or skill
Ever heard of a budget?

uhhh

I think you should go get that checked out user, it's probably not healthy

He probably wasn't. But at the end of the day the Firefly's fucked up, I feel.
You really can't ask a man to give it his all for an entire year to make sure this little girl survives no matter what to just walk away while they kill her.

My opinion was that TLOU has a shit story and I even gave a few reasons why I think that. Not sure what else you're wanting from me, honestly.

The Last of Us is a good game.

Not 10/10, but not as bad Cred Forums says it is.

Now come at me bitch boys.

It's just idle thoughts user. It's a very common thing. Jerry Seinfeld had some great material based on it.

I should have been more specific; I meant additional effort and skill on top of the baseline required for any bland TPS. Technically everything requires some level of effort and skill, but in general conversation we tend to ignore the baseline requirements and focus on anything additional.

For example, your post, despite being retarded and meaningless, required a baseline level of literacy and typing ability. But no-one would describe it as 'requiring effort and skill,' because you only put in the bare minimum required.

>It's shit because it's cheap emotions for normies
>How is it cheap?
>It just is

Obviously that's the reason why, but still someone should try shit like that more often. It's nonexistent in games and very few movies does it, and when they do they're usually toptier movies like Miracle Mile or Children of Men.

Humanity has been down to a small handful of people before and came out fine.

The people that just give up and cry would not be there at that point so conversations and ideas like that would never happen.

>How is it cheap?
I didn't get asked that actually. You wanna try asking? Keep in mind my answer would be opinion based. ;)

Never on the scale of TLOU.

We've never had a literal apocalyptic scenario before.

I like how you see the truth of the Firefly's mentality. There is one there willing to stand up to Joel, but the other two are just afraid and don't want to die. Like most of the fireflys, and most people in the world, these humans are just selfish and trying to stay alive. Ellie is worth all the rest of em combined.

that's the good shit, man

keep it up, the tears you're harvesting are almost giving me a chub, I don't know how you manage it when you're being so obvious about it

You personally kill more people in the game than there have been human survivors in the entire world from several points in human history.

Soon

>We've never had a literal apocalyptic scenario before.
There was the great flood, but the details are sketchy.

No, it's implied they don't know why the fuck she's immune and they're going to crack open her skull like they're Sylar in Heroes, except they don't have magic bullshit powers that let them look at a brain and figure out how said immunity works.

The entire operation was based around equal parts desperation and "Fuck it, maybe it'll work this time."

Which is kind of further proof they were desperate instead of knowledgeable.

Ellie is the goose laying the golden egg with her immunity. Killing her to get at the source of her immunity, rather than seeing if a blood transfusion to a bitten victim of the same blood type can cure them (or any of a hundred other tests which DON'T kill the one possible source of the cure) is proof they have precisely zero fucking idea how the scientific method works, let alone how to solve the cordiceps fungus problem.

No, it's supposed to be about how the Fireflies, which started the game as the saviours of Humanity, are actually just as bad as the oppressive government.

Marlene starts out as a sympathetic figure. She's wounded, she's willing to deal with Joel and Tess despite them murdering Robert, and she's wounded and needs to rely on them to care for a minor she's willing to entrust to them. Classic sympathy bait all around.

There is no indication that killing Ellie would save the world. At best, it'd get the research development for breathing in spores a few points closer to a vaccine, while doing precisely nothing to stop the problem of Clickers, Runners, and Bloaters which actually kill their victims most of the time.

It's not moral to perform the surgery unless you can guarantee that the surgery will provide results (impossible) AND somehow deal with the fact society has crumbled.

Saving humanity, if humanity was still one society, would be one thing, but infrastructure has broken down to the point where the last vestiges of humanity are fucked anyway.

A cure won't help.

By looking at our DNA we can see that there were at least a few times when only a handful of people survived and produced offspring.

Things get better as long as you don't snuff out everything.

>I'm not actually mad as fuck
>I'm responding "ironically
Haha I like you, user. You'd be "that kid" of my social circle.

Communist confirmed. O-O-O-O-ONE MUST SUFFER FOR ALL!!! THAT IS FAIR!

Its not actually emotionally manipulative if you come into it with an open mind and you still notice how hammy it is - then it is just trying (and failing) to be emotionally manipulative.

And how the fuck can you enjoy any story at all if you think it's best not to let yourself become emotionally invested in the characters, just so you have a better chance of spoiling the experience for yourself looking for this "manipulative" bullshit? It's like seeing an action movie and deciding that it sucks because you refuse to suspend your disbelief one bit. I'm order to enjoy something you have to actually let yourself enjoy it

>Never on the scale of TLOU.
I've not played TLOU closely enough to know the figures, so you'd need to give me some numbers, but humanity has survived multiple apocalyptic scenarios. How many humans survived the initial mushroom apocalypse in TLOU? Anything more than ~5k and your point is false.

Never answered with anything besides
>ugh I just want good stories

I understand you can't admit it, but just know I'm cheering you on from the sidelines

I see what you're doing and I love it, godspeed man

I don't know if you misread my post or meant to reply to someone else. Either way, you haven't addressed anything I said.

They outright state in the collectibles they want to just kill Joel so he can't leak their secrets

Holy shit I never realized they tried to rip off Joel. Around blacks, never relax!

This morally cleanses them of any wrongdoing they have done and will ever done, it's official.

You sound like you enjoy everything.

user, if I gave him the secret to making good stories than he'd be rich and I'd be a chump. And I ain't no chump.

If you're so smart than tell me what I'm doing? Huh?

I'm kind of wondering HOW they thought they were going to get away with it.

"LOL, thanks for bringing this girl we didn't tell you we were going to kill across a war-torn, apocalypse-ravaged Zombieland that even our leader, with the entire organization couldn't manage to orchestrate. So... fuck off now. Stop talking like you're big."

It's like they WANTED to die.

Couldn't the infected but easily dealt with by just developing an extremely potent aerosol fungicide and using it fucking everywhere? Make it to where it's mostly harmless to humans and just blanket the cities and everywhere else with it. Surely in 20 years they would've developed some effective fungicide. Shit, you could even just inject it if you've been bitten and it'd stop the infection from fucking up your brain.

>If anyone is capable of doing it, it's them.

So no one is capable of doing it then.

well, you're very obviously stringing people along with a whole lot of nothing, and they're swallowing it hook line and sinker

but one person seeing through it hasn't stopped you, and more importantly it hasn't stopped them from continuing to bite, and that's just beautiful to me

They were just going to kill him afterwards. They would have executed him on the spot but ol' Queenie told them to hold off a bit. They deserved everything they got for being such stuck up cunts

I love how sheep just instantly assume the fireflies are good guys cuz they're fighting the military.

The military is literally the only stability left in the country, and the fireflies are bombing them! So the military has harsh Quarantine rules? OF FUCKING COURSE THEY DO THERE ARE FUCKING MUSHROOMS EATING PEOPLE.

Goddamn, just because the military is in a bad situation doesn't make them evil. They're doing a lot more to save humanity than the fireflies.

Trips for truth.

This is my new favorite Pepe.

>with a whole lot of nothing
Wow, user. I'm really hurt. Where was I negligent in adding substance to my posts? Can I earn back your trust?

Dude they're all the bad guys cus humanity is so fucked up bro...

Man TLOU may be the greatest story ever told...

Yes. You knew it from the moment he lost his daughter that he could never sacrifice Ellie to clean up for their fucking mistakes.
Morally, ideologically and politically he was absolutely right because in the end, the fireflies where the ones that messed up and ultimately all that "save humanity" bullshit amounts as them wanting to live too. Nothing altruistic about it. Their world is beyond that shit.

> But he doomed humanity

That's relative. For one if he doomed their current humanity nothing of value was lost. The fireflies destroyed civilization years ago and without civilization the humans are really behaving like shit. They don't deserve to be saved.

Plus it can also be seen as Ellie being natural selection. She is immune, her kids are gonna be immune, new humans are going to be more resilient and that's how evolution has always worked. The weak are weed out not by a perception of weakness or an ideology or some shit like that but by natural selection.
Saving Ellie is Darwinism if nothing more.

While killing her by no means ensures a cure keeping her alive ensures the reproduction of the immunes and in the long therm the victory over the fungus current form because the most dangerous things on that world are not the humans and are not the zombies but the airborne spores.

Cred Forums plays Last of Us
>saving ellie is the best decision! fuck the rest of the people!
Cred Forums plays Life is Strange
>KILL THE CUNT SAVE THE TOWN

The Last of Us
Bioshock 1

and you need to reread my post if you think it doesn't address yours. We're defining what constitutes emotional manipulation and arguing over whether you should come into a story emotionally detached from the characters and skeptical of the storytelling, "to get a much better chance at identifying emotional manipulation" as you said.
Why do you need to give yourself a better chance to identify it? Are you afraid you might miss it and accidentally become emotionally invested?

>you sound like you enjoy everything
Not really, but I try to give everything an honest chance. I don't care who made it or what other people are saying

What do you think the sequel is gonna be? I think it will be about a preggo girl.

>Ellie isn't a shit person
>Chloe is
Gee I wonder why people want to save Ellie

Ellie is a cunny, Chloe is an old hag.

Lawl trying claim moral superiority for a group that wants to murder a little girl for a chance to make things slightly better.

You act like Joel is dropping a bomb on everybody still alive or something. They'll still be around, and if they listen to the Military's rules they probably won't get infected.

Keeping in mind that there are already ways to prevent infection (don't get bit, wear a gas mask) and that the majority of the world, already infected, will never be cured.

The doctor you have to kill to get Ellie out of there. What did that person do to deserve to die more than her? What did she do to deserve to live more?

Now add to that all the other people in that building you had to kill, most of whom were probably much better people than the main character himself.

He is a monster, who will slaughter any number of people for purely selfish reasons.

Nah that was just Ellie's mom from that comic on the wall in Uncharted 4's epilogue.

Maybe it could happen if they make TLOU 2 be a prequel, though

I'm hoping it'll follow a military man from the start of the infection to holding the last safe zones and going across raped America with your unit

I need to sleep now but I dearly hope people continue to fall for it, thank you for the entertainment

may your (You)s be many and sweet, dear rusemaster-kun

No, he was not justified killing humanity to save one girl.

I felt right from that first guy he murdered in that hospital that he was going to far. Then I tried really hard to get through that place without killing anyone, but the game seemed to really want blood. Then it pointed me at the doctor and forced me to make a move, and I almost stopped playing right there.

It's because Cred Forums knows they'd have a better chance of tricking an underage girl into sex than the punker lesbian.

>We're defining what constitutes emotional manipulation
I never attempted to do any such thing and never addressed that issue.

>arguing over whether you should come into a story emotionally detached from the characters and sceptical of the storytelling
Again, I never argued anything of the sort.

Re-read my post. I pointed out that identifying emotional manipulation can be done even without actively trying to avoid emotional investment, and that, generally speaking, it is actually easier to identify emotional manipulation when one is not emotionally invested. Your replies haven't addressed that point.

>Pull a knife on Joel and refuse to back down because he really wants to murder a little girl for selfish reasons
>The Fireflies universally agree to murder Joel before he can leak their secrets but are PARTIALLY stopped by their leader and likely would have shot him anyway
>Raiding safe zones because "MUH MILITARY IS EVIL" instead of stopping douchebags like the Hunters that murder people just to murder them
>Joel only kills 2 people of his own accord in that level with the rest being able to be sneaked past or knocked out
>Both of those people had it coming
>They weren't even going to pay him like the deal agreed upon

Fuck off Firefly nerd

If your whole justification is that she is an innocent child that represents the good in the world, what about any child who will die now that could have been saved? One of her classmates maybe?

Why won't you think of the children?

He was willing to kill her on that table of operations. Kill a 15 year old girl for a chance at saving his own neck.

By that point Joel is a shit person that probably would not have given a shit about Ellie had he not travel with her but he did and so in his mind Ellie is a second chance to save her own daughter so fuck the world.

It's not about if anyone deserved anything there, it's about who had the power to decide.

Not to mention Joel was fucking right.

Who's to say they'd die? Joel isn't shooting them in the head. They are in control of their own destiny, as is everybody. The Fireflies tried to take that control away from Ellie and Joel manifested their destinies.

The only people who shit on it are console warring faggots.

I'm really hesitant to reply to such obvious troll; but you are dedicated to your craft so I'll give you the (You) you want, with a little disagreement.

I've played games for as long as I remember. My first memories are of Atari. My youth was spent playing my Genesis, and my friends SNES. My dad encouraged me to learn how to use DOS and I also played games on the PC after that. As I matured, the industry matured with me; my own development has coincided with the development of characters in video games.

With this, some 25 years of gaming experience I have, I have rarely found truly good stories in games. Now, you might think "How do you know good stories ur just a shitty gamer". Well you see, also from a young age, I read a lot. Not like kids with their sparknotes and audiobooks and webpages these days, but like real, sitting down, reading a book reading. I started with goosebumps in the 2nd grade, was reading steven king by 4th grade, moved on Tolkien and from there into a great sea of literature. I've read more books than an user like you knows the titles of. I love good stories, even if the technical aspects of the writing are weak, if the story is good and interesting I'm enthralled.

Now, with all this experience of video games, and stories, I want to say:
TLOU is one of the 5 best stories ever told in Video Games. DESU that doesn't say a whole lot, because stories in video games are usually garbage, but there you go. I'd easily put TLOU up there.

>two movie games
Gross.

Joel did not doom humanity, the fireflies ended civilization. It was long gone and what remained was shit.
Besides the fireflies could not ensure a cure, only Ellies demise.

Saving Ellie is saving the only know immune and giving humanity a chance to start over once the train wreck that remains finally kicks the bucket.

What are the other 4

But WD is on consoles too.

The Last of Us has gameplay.

Joel comments on how he's killed innocent people in ambushes much like the one that was sprung on them. He's a bastard.

And? He's done bad shit. The Fireflies are just as bad. Everybody is bad in their own way, difference is that Joel is at least trying to do what's right by Ellie while the Fireflies are basically raping her

I'm not sure I just didn't want to say TLOU was the best story I've seen in a game. I'll think about it.

That's not the point, the point is one is shat on because most people here haven't played it and they try to justify not having a PS3/PS4

Well I want you to know that I've read youre whole post and yes, I will accept that you have played a lot video games and read books. That is very good, user.

However, one thing I've learned is that even endless experience will not refine the taste of someone who is not willing to develop scruples and standards. So unfortunately your self propelled resume is pretty meaningless to me.

TLOU is smack dab in the middle of video game storie quality if you want my 100% genuine opinion on it btw.

>Fireflies are basically raping her
Did you really mean to say this?

I meant to post literally murdering her but for some reason my mind drifted

I don't disagree with you, because to do so would lower myself to some newfag pleb level I don't really need to.

You are just wrong, that's all. No opinions, no motivations, no nothing, just wrong. But u got a big troll dick bby lemme suck it.

Don't talk to me or my clients friends daughter ever again

Joel put it best. "That's not up to you to decide"

And then he shot her in the head

I don't know why I never played this, but I never did, even though I owned a PS3 during the time of its release and now have a PS4 that I only uused to play Bloodborne, Until Dawn and the Uncharted remasters as well as Uncharted 4. That's literally all I every played on it due to having a PC for everything else.

But I turned on my PS4 for the first time in several months after seeing this thread and it's on sale for $10, so I guess it's about goddamn time I played this shit.

>What did that person do to deserve to die more than her?

Well, for starters, they were about to perform knowingly fatal surgery on an uninformed minor.

>Now add to that all the other people in that building you had to kill, most of whom were probably much better people than the main character himself.
>He is a monster, who will slaughter any number of people for purely selfish reasons.

Uh, morality-wise, the guys who are willing to blindly follow orders and/or kill someone without informed consent are worse than the guy who's fighting to allow informed consent.

If Ellie had explicitly said she was willing to die for the chance and Joel went against it, that'd make him a monster.

If the Fireflies hadn't denied Ellie that choice and told Joel that, they'd be sympathetic.

Since both of the above aren't true, the Fireflies deserved everything they got.

I actually had a lot of sympathy for the military throughout the game. They've responsible for the survival of the largest populations of humanity still surviving even though it's clear they're not capable of supporting so many people anymore.

They could have easily turned into something like the hunters but they still supported what was left of society. Even though military rule was basically slavery it was hard to get mad at them after seeing zones that fell to rebels or the infected. Everyone had to make harsh choices.

Well I'm glad I at least managed to shake the pedestal you've places yourself on.

>tries to act reasonable and experienced
>resorts to Y-Y-YOUR WRONG!!
Whether I'm baiting or not you have succeeded in bumming me out with that a tool you are.

Good thing you have a PS4, the aiming on PS3 was shit, due to heinous delay from the graphics really pushing what the PS3 was capable of.

>Ellie is naive
Not according to my doujins.

>it is actually easier to identify emotional manipulation when one is not emotionally invested

Obviously. But one could say that the whole reason you won't get invested in the first place is because you are so concerned with (and hostile to) the prospect of being "emotionally manipulated." If the storytelling is genuinely fake-feeling and manipulative, then you will not be able to become invested in it even if you try. There is no need to put any effort in trying to "detect" emotional manipulation unless you are actively trying to resist feeling the drama of a story.

It all just comes down to whether you want to let yourself enjoy it or not

>dude just turn your brain off

I only shot the first one, let the other 2 live.

I bet you sympathize with the Combine too, you monster.

>Kill the first doctor
>The other two have the audacity to call Joel a monster

kill yourself, buzzword spamming dipshit.

It's literally what you're advocating.

Played it on PS3 and PS4.

The aiming is shit in both, but it's deliberate. Everything about the combat in the game, from the animations to the "game feel" (for lack of a better descriptor) is deliberately ugly. There's lag, excessive aim-sway (especially for a man like Joel who is, in-universe, one of the most dangerous men on the planet and who has murdered shitloads of people) and that's why gameplay and story work so well.

The Last of Us is an ugly, ugly place. At best, assuming you do a stealth playthrough, Joel and Ellie are forced to gruesomely kill dozens of Runners, Clickers, and Bloaters.

Assuming you don't 100% Stealth/Pacifist the game, that number can include uninfected humans and can easily climb into the hundreds and can include Joel using Malatov cocktails or homemade IEDs to murder his enemies, complete with Ellie's shocked responses to said excess.

>these humans are just selfish and trying to stay alive

so is nearly every human being. It's in our nature to be selfish, but also to hate selfish people, because they might get something we want.

The aiming is heavy and sway-y I get that, but no game dev purposefully adds delay to their game. That is absolute insanity. Taking measures to make gameplay worse, not harder, worse, is terrible game design.

>palmed

>dude just turn your emotions on

All stories are emotional manipulation. That's why tropes exist: They work, and stories which actively defy every storytelling beat are unsatisfying because reading/watching/playing something where the hero suddenly dies and that's the end of things is anti-climactic, unsatisfying on a very basic level, and stupid as fuck.

The Hero's Journey as a storytelling framework exists across pretty much all cultures because it encapsulates what people consider a good, worthwhile to listen to and engage with story.

>everybody talks about the ammo shortage in this game
>I played on very hard and had so much ammo by the end I could go Rambo

He murders Marlene....no sugar coating it. She knew Ellie since Ellie was first born, and cared more her her then fucking Joel did. But sacrificing Ellie wasn't about what Marlene wanted, or Joel or the fucking Fireflies. It was basically humanities only real shot at finding a cure. And that was bigger then any of them.

>Joel just says Nope
>guns her down while unarmed and trying to reason with him

mind blown

>one could say that the whole reason you won't get invested in the first place is because you are so concerned with (and hostile to) the prospect of being "emotionally manipulated."
One could say that. It wouldn't be true though, at least not in my case.

>worrying about the director / creator / writer's nefarious plans for manipulating your feelings
we arent talking about retarded action stunts here

I'm not him.

>devalidated

Why can't we just agree that what he did was morally right although pretty selfish. I could totally see a cutscene with Joel telling Ellie about everything and getting really upset and mad and Ellie just being like "sure I'll do it to save the world"

Just finished the Last of Us like 2 weeks ago. Anyone claiming it's a movie, hasn't played it. There is like 30-40 minutes of gameplay.....then a 2 minute cutscene. Another hour of gameplay.....another 2-4 minute cutscene etc. There is far more gameplay then cutscenes. Only the DLC left behind was more about story then gameplay. Most of the dlc was cutscene with a few minutes of gameplay in between.

And what medical degree do you have?
Right, shut up

Is the game actually good or Bioshock tier overrated. As in, everything is mediocre but its heralded as something amazing for some reason, or when asked to point out a shinning element of the game they come up blank.

Global warming strikes again!

Aiming is pretty bad on PS4, too. I might pop my PS3 copy into my PS3 to check, but I'm pretty sure the delay is design, not insanity.

Like I said, ugliness. You have little ammo, you have to be very precise, and even powerful weapons like the rifle and shotgun are easy to fuck up with on Easy, let alone higher difficulty settings.

The sway and delay are there to tell youi that if you're using the guns, you fucked up. Joel is not a badass gunslinger like Nathan Drake, he's a fucking murderhobo straight out of /tg/ trying to make right twenty years after the fact.

You're not meant to dispatch a lot of enemies with your guns, even when you've fully upgraded your shit and can rapid-switch between two power weapons and both your pistol and your revolver. You're meant to scrape by, asking yourself why you didn't fucking stealth-kill more of the guys before you got caught.

I'm like 90-95% sure the delay is by design, and equally sure it was a good choice for the game.

If bad controls were bad design, Ico and Shadow of the Colossus would be uniformly terrible.

False. Ellie was like the fourth attempt. Doesn't make Joel right or them wrong though.

But then Joel didn't give Ellie a choice either. Who says she wasn't okay with sacrificing herself for a cure? I think Ellie knew more then she let on, thus the last question before the game ends, she asked Joel if he told the truth about what happened at the Firefly base......And he lied to her.

No, you're an idiot. The tapes show that the doctors know their shit with all the medical terms they use and they are extremely confident that it's going to work.

It's overrated but not awful. Personally I hated it but if you like TPSes with nods to stealth and survival, and if you like post-apocalyptic narratives, then you can probably get some enjoyment out of it.

Why the fuck do you idiots keep spouting this incorrect bullshit? It was never true and 100% from the start.

>She knew Ellie since Ellie was first born, and cared more her her then fucking Joel did.

One of them was willing to kill Ellie without her knowledge. The other carted her across an apocalypse.

But yeah, use time to measure emotional attachment. That makes sense.

it's only slightly overrated, which says a lot considering the praise reviewers have given it

Did you not play the game?
Joel is a monster. The guy butchered many people, and basically says he robbed and killed people to survive as well. The guy was never painted as a saint.

>murders

self defense she had a gun first and would have come for ellie again. just because she knew her doesn't mean she can so easily have her put down.

the fireflies are incompetent morons and they've proved it. They have no right to murder a girl on the off-chance they make a cure, which only then only be used for themselves. Nothing shows a cure would even help humanity either way.

It's...grey.

It really depends on what you value; the one thing that you personally hold dear, or the entire human race.

This game is very much lacking in subtly, aka everything is shown to the player's face, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just means that most people say it's good because it's actually good. A game that has a ton of subplots and subtly, like Silent Hill 2, might seem boring to some and brilliant to others, while other games like Uncharted are tons of fun to most people because everything is so direct rather than having to look deeper to find a more robust experience. And Naughty Dog is amazing at making games. They might be the best developer of all time.

The ultilitarian approach to story telling, huh? So basically simple things you've seen before are good and new and different things are bad? Anything that may go over the average person's head should be avoided?

This doesnt really have anything to do with the original topic tho.

>caring if a story has genuine thoughts or feelings behind it or if it's just trying to make a quick buck is bad
Kindly fuck off. Not everyone settles for whatever slop is placed in front of them.

Did you not find Marlene's tapes talking about her decision?
She is clearly broken up about making the call because she loves Ellie. But knows it has to be done.

Also Joel gave no fucks about Ellie through 70% of their trip. She was just fucking cargo to complete a job. Yes near the end of the trip he bonded with her, but that hardly means he cares for Ellie more then Marlene did.

Best part honestly; I like to imagine her shock as she lay dying on the parking structure floor.

Right? Ellie is just there to fill Joel's dead daughter gap. Marlene actually cared about her more, but realized the cure could save a lot of people and make mopping up infected much easier without having to worry about bites and spores as much.

>waaah my gun waves around too much
Makes it more tense. Also, git gud.

BTW you can eliminate it by spending your vitamins or w/e on the "weapons sway" skill

That's a false equivalency, friendo.

Marlene made a conscious decision to kill both Ellie and Joel after both went through hell to get to the Fireflies with Ellie's immunity sample, neither one knowing that the testing of said immunity would involve Ellie's death.

Joel slaughtered the Fireflies partially because they were going to kill her before offering her a chance to choose, one way or the other.

Theoretically, Joel may have made the decision to allow Ellie to make her own decision. Marlene and the Fireflies denied both of them the chance for Ellie to choose to die on behalf of humanity.

Marlene's choice by denying Ellie any choice informed Joel's only choice. It's the Fox and the Scorpion dilemma: Marlene chose to kill Ellie, and Joel acted on that decision in the only way his nature would allow without Ellie telling him to stand down.

Marlene knew Joel enough to know his reputation and thus, his nature. She chose her fate the moment she denied Ellie a choice.

He prevented her murder.

No, but at the same time yes.
No because really he should have expected this from the beginning and he's the one that gave her up in the first place, its not like the Fireflies stole her from him.

Yes because you find a note saying Ellie wasn't the first immune they found and every time they tried to find a cure, they ended up killing the host without getting anything. It was basically trial and error.

It was stupid for him to do it, but it was in-character of what he would do.
I didn't really like the ending too much. I wished it ended with them getting to the base and everyone was already dead.

You clearly didn't read the rest of his post, moron. He was defending the shit aiming.

I'm not going to disagree with you, but please don't misuse the term 'false equivalency,' otherwise it will end up like 'literally' and 'begging the question' and other terms that used to have a common meaning but are now just buzzwords.

>The aiming is shit in both, but it's deliberate
Well yeah, anyone who deliberately puts aiming in a game that can only be played with a game pad is deliberately implementing shit aiming.

Why do you faggots constantly repeat this tired meme?

Marleen's tapes clearly state there are survivors just like Ellie who were immune and then died while trying to synthesize a vaccine. It was never going to work and showed just how delusional the fireflies were for thinking that Ellie would be any different.

If that were true, than the ending is even worse. Or at the very least, more poorly written.

Marlene drops her gun and tries to reason with Joel. Mind you she had the drop on him coming out of the elevator and could have just gunned him down.

Repeated failures doesn't mean the endeavour is doomed to fail.

We can argue about methodology, but the simple fact is, just because they'd failed several times before, it doesn't mean every attempt is doomed to fail.

ND can't make aiming controls for the life of them.
This and the Uncharted games aiming is terrible.
They should make a Sleeping Dogs kind of game where the main focus is hand to hand

Don't care about the tapes or how much Marlene supposedly cares about Ellie. Here's the cold hard truth: Marlene was willing to murder Ellie without her knowledge and murder a man who'd watched over Ellie for a year without even waking her up.

For a slim chance that maybe, maybe some people wouldn't have to wear gas-masks while still having to dodge Clickers, Runners, Bloaters, etc because the infected don't stop at infecting, they straight-up murder their victims outside of rare cases.

Assuming the vaccine worked as advertised, you still have the issue of having to clear out dark, basically foggy areas filled with creatures which can and will rip your throat out no matter how badass you are as long as they get within grabbing distance.

Just sayin': If I was going into an area like that, my first, second, third, down to maybe the forty-fifth or forty-sixth thoughts wouldn't be thanking my lucky stars that IF I get bitten and get away or IF I get my masked ripped off and inhale some spores, I might live more than the next twenty-four hours.

I was complimenting the game, not damning it. The gunplay is brutal and ugly, which adds to the overall feel of the game.

That's not a bad point. The h2h combat was the only bit of Uncharted that was almost entertaining.

And the doctors were completely willing to kill a little girl for their own survival. They are not saints either, friend.

And it was a difficult call that leaders some times have to make. At times a situation is bigger then one or a few people. Marlene made a call that she clearly hated, but it was bigger then she was or Ellie.

I want to play as the military in TLoU2.

Tough shit, friendo. Comparing Joel's decision to save Ellie to Marlene's decision to murder Ellie is the dictionary definition of a false equivalence, for factors I've outlined.

Also, go fuck yourself for worrying about something maybe becoming a meme rather than dealing with an actual argument.

Coward.

Barely.

>>caring if a story has genuine thoughts or feelings behind it or if it's just trying to make a quick buck is bad
Yes, it is bad. Don't judge a book by it's author (or especially its publisher). If a piece was made with enough care and skill that you have to bother reminding yourself of the creator's / producer's intentions so you can continue being dismissive of it, then the problem with the story is on your end

For humanities survival. Stop making it sound like the cure was for just them. It was for everyone. And yes one life doesn't compare to thousands....sorry but that is fact.

>Comparing Joel's decision to save Ellie to Marlene's decision to murder Ellie is the dictionary definition of a false equivalence
No, it really isn't.

She wouldnt have risked hitting Ellie, AKA her meal ticket

>muh methodology

Nigger they are in a post apocalyptic society with few resources. How can they change their methodology when they dont have a medical industry to fall back on? There's a reason they've barely made any progress on a cure.

and by 'don't judge a book by its author' I mean don't judge a book just by what you think of its author as a person

>her meal ticket

Why do people actually like Marlene had anything to gain from Ellie's death? In her tape confession she flat out says she's tired of lesding. Tired of everyone looking at her for answers. Tired of making tough calls in who lives and who dies. Her last words in the tape were to the effect "I'm tired and just want this all to end."

JUSTIFIIIIIIIIIIIIED!

If you were vaccinated you wouldn't need a gas mask, dummy. Also the military is not shit like it's displayed in all post apocalypse media. The military would shit on zombies no matter how deadly they might seem. The US military wouldn't lose against what are basically angry humans without the ability to problem solve, only to charge in a straight line.

There's more than one way to skin a cat even if you can only use your bare hands.

Part of being a good leader is the willingness to take responsibility when a decision is a bad one. The decision to tell Joel that she'd be killing Ellie and letting him live a second after telling him that, regardless of intentions, was a fucking terrible decision, as Joel homicidally demonstrates throughout the game's climax.

Being a leader sometimes means telling people to jump off a bridge. That doesn't make it a good, or even sane decision.

Joel is, functionally speaking, a machine in the shape of a man who can only output death, destruction, and mayhem.

Telling him you're going to murder the first human being he's been willing to protect unconditionally in twenty years is as bad a recipe for disaster as forgetting to buy condoms for an Alabama family reuinion.

Was he justified in doing this?

Dude this guy is trolling. Literally the only thing he's said is "Story is bad, not good". "Because: It's not good"

I mean, no, but he didn't doom the Earth either. Eventually people will learn how to not be eaten by zombies, just like how we learned how to not be eaten by lions and wolves. Then all the zombies and spores will die off, and humanity will be better off in the long run from all the culling etc. Imagine how easy it would be to get a job in a city of 48.

>He thinks the Fireflies were Lawful Good

They murdered soldiers because le rebellion. They attempted to murder Joel. They only cared for themselves. They were scum.

Don't pretend a cure would magically save humanity either. It would barely have effected it, that's even if it would have been able to have been made or dispensed. Fuck off with your GREATER GOOD shit.

So if he correctly reasoned that the military was better equipped than the Fireflies, and equally motivated to find a vaccine, could he have found a way to inform them of the immunity and pass Ellie onto the proper authorities?

>Basically humanities only real shot at finding a cure

Except it wasn't, the surgery would have been most likely unsuccessful.

Being a leader isn't easy. You will do things that you will not be proud of, to accomplish a greater goal. I am not justifying Marlene or her choice to sacrifice Ellie. But I do understand why she did it.

Also the idea that there is one singular human with immunity is a stretch.

What happens if you don't shoot them? Do they just sit there or do they get back up and start fighting again?

>killing what are probably the most useful people on the planet

And you know this how?
Even a 5% chance is better than no chance at all.

Cordyceps affecting humans is a stretch n-word

How the fuck can you vaccinate against a fucking fungus anyway?

They think you are chicken-shit / hesitating and try to rush you

Yeah they're skyrim bandits, their health regens to 25% or so and they attack again. As far as I remember, at least.

>It would barely have effected it
Progress is made in steps. You have to start somewhere, and I don't think everyone would be as complacent to just give up on humanity as you.

Never said the Fireflies were lawful good. I sure as fuck know neither is Joel.

>How the fuck can you vaccinate against a fucking fungus anyway?
nevermind on this, brain fart. I forgot about shit like meningitis

But yeah how come they couldnt just do a brain biopsy on Ellie first, before they went crazy and tried to remove her brain?

I'd rather have a farmer than a doctor that would only be able to tell me "Yup, you're fucked" when i get infected.

Yeah no shit zombies aren't real, dildus. But its almost like saying "yeah there'd be no plot otherwise, so tvirus, uh, doesn't affect Sherry."

I don't get the retards who have this logic. A cure would help a lot, he'll just in boosting moral. Most people here would just sit around and wait to die, it would seem. Some hope is better then none.

It really is.

>False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two opposing arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.

Marlene's decision is, by nature of her authority when made, tacitly denying both Joel and Ellie the agency to give either informed or uninformed consent. Marlene has made a decision and her decision is what will be done if she gets her way.

Joel's decision is, by the nature of both Ellie not giving consent or making Joel aware of her consent, informed or not, functionally a decision in favor of Ellie's agency. Though his actions fundamentally deny Ellie the ability to give informed or uninformed consent about the decision being made on her behalf, his actions also preserve her agency through the simple factor that she will awaken to have agency after he's done.

In frat-bro terms, it's the difference between raping an unconscious sorority chick or letting her choose to bang you in the morning when you have whiskey dick and can't get a hard-on to save your life. Whether she'd choose the dick or not is what matters, not the ability to provide the dick to her.

Marlene was willing to rape Ellie, Joel was willing to watch her stare at his limp dick while he apologized.

That's why comparing Marlene's decision and Joel's decision is a false equivalency.

>Most people here would just sit around and wait to die
That's exactly what I've been doing the past 15 years.

niggers can't go 5 minutes without stealing. look at that big stash of stolen junk on the left. was probably thinking about vandalizing that toilet for parts too

It's simultaneously one of my favorite linear games and one of the most overrated at the same time

The atmosphere and the world building is amazing but the strict gameplay linearity in some parts lets it down

I love how you assume we've "Given up" on humanity. Humanity was Joel's brother rebuilding society. Trash is the Fireflys and their stupid fucking rebellion. Who starts a revolution when the country is in that kind of shape? Idiot fucking fireflys should be helping to build quarantine walls and search for food.

But then saying this
>Also the idea that there is one singular human with immunity is a stretch
is pointless because obviously TLoU doesn't take place in our universe.

>Wants her personal problems to end
>Murders someone else to achieve this

The Fireflies were when they started gunning down soldiers. The bandits were when they murdered people for trying to simply survive another day. Letting another little girl die for vague causes that she was never even given a choice to opt out of is extremely against anything humanity should stand for. The greater good can rot when the greater part of it is nothing but scum. Humanity will heal because of people like Joel's brother, not a magic cure-all you think will spill from the corpse of a child.

There are other infections and shit a doctor could help you with. Good job growing crops with Clickers all over the fucking place.

I like simple minded people. They remind me of my mother. She had trouble with basic concepts too.

She's not with us any more, but her legacy lives on in posts like yours.

>personal problems
>finding a cure for everyone
>personal

Wew lad.

Joel definitely transitions to chaotic good by the last third of the game.

I haven't played TLOU, but based on the trailers, the mushroom monsters can be shot dead pretty easily. So how are they a problem? I mean, I'm from bongland, so I get how we would have trouble killing them all, but isn't burgerland full of guns? Can't they just shoot every mushroom man and have done with it?

And obviously I meant that in the TLoU universe, there being ONE immune person isn't believable. Had the whole thing been drawn in anime style it might've fit, but as it is its too obvious a plot device in a game that's more subtle than that in every other regard.

Like your slant-faced fetal alcohol syndrome?

Because if you can't understand the difference between Marlene's decision and Joel's decision during the game's climax, your mother clearly drank enough that your umbilical cord was a crazy straw.

Even Joel's brother's plan wasn't air tight. His fucking complex got raided by bandits. Sitting around and hoping things eventually will get better is no fucking plan.

Lol good one, you sure showed me, I think my mum would have enjoyed that level of banter.

Maybe if Americans could aim. If war were declared on the zombies the undead demographic would be 100% white in hours, though.

If they live long enough, they can take a fucking Dirty Harry-style revolver round to the face because the mushrooms covering them harden over time.

Additionally, even a dead mushroomfucker will continue to grow the virus and will eventually release spores which can fill a building.

Combined with the fact they are, by nature, 28-Days-Later running zombies and the mushrooms can probably grow fine in corpses instead of infected tissue and the fact infection is quick, easily transmitted, and basically unstoppable unless you're Batman-level prepared and yeah... Easy to see how the outbreak went viral.

>Marlene was willing to rape Ellie, Joel was willing to watch her stare at his limp dick while he apologized.

I fucking laughed

>Joel
>good in any way

Did people honestly ignore all the shit Joel did and even some of the shit he hinted at he did to survive? Joel at his best is chaotic netural.

Are American guns controlled with gamepads now or something?

>psycho mantis posts on Cred Forums

They swarm over you.
Bullets are in short supply.
Shooting draws many more of them.
Some of the more powerful ones one hit kill you.

Stealth is honestly the best way to play the game.

I meant the only thing Americans can hit consistently is blacks. But also, yes, we're working on it.

Fair enough, I see what you're saying. But surely there are plenty of machine guns and high powered rifles lying around?

You try to boil it down for people, and then get fucks like this: I boiled the complexity Joel versus Marlene's morality down to a college rape joke, and they still didn't get it.

Well no, one immune person isn't rational, there would be many more immune, but how many would be killed by the infected's beatings, die from bite infections, kill themselves believing they are infected, be shot by others for thinking they're infected, live a life without exposure to infected, or get killed in some other way. In an epidemic you wouldn't know you were immune if you were unless something drastic happened.

Right, which is why it wasn't so terrible for Joel to save Ellie, surely another few immune people will turn up.

Pretty much this.
Ellie and Riley talked about killing themselves after they got infected. But they chose not to. Only way Ellie was able to find out she was immune.

From a gameplay perspective, sure, it makes perfect sense. I'm talking about a narrative perspective.

Again, never played it, don't know much besides the broad strokes of the narrative and a few trailers. Just wondering why the mushroom people weren't mowed down with powerful guns. I'm trying to picture how they could gain a foothold in the USA, it doesn't make sense to me.

My mum enjoyed rape jokes. Not sure why.

No zombie apocalypse scenario makes sense in the USA unless the zombie virus is airborne and lethal, or otherwise inevitable somehow. The cops and military losing to zombies will always be silly.

The story points out how like 70% of humanity became infected. That is a lot of guns and bullets needed to take down billions of infected. There just got overwhelmed. Some cities were even bombed. Still wasn't enough.

Sure, but that's not the real problem. They're easy to kill if you can see them.

But like mushrooms, they tend to lurk where it's dark. And if just one dies, they release a cloud of mushroom spores which can fill entire buildings. By the way, if you breath in a spore, you're fucked.

And whoops, the spore cloud won't be visible until it gets dense enough that there's probably dozens of fresh infected lurking in the darkness anyway.

But hey, have fun clearing your buildings room by room, because they avoid the light. It's probably a lot of fun to convince people to wander into dark spaces where a single tear in their gasmask has their comrades gunning them down, hunting for sprinting zombies which will tear your throat out if they get a hand on you.

Hope the seal on your masks is tight, because fuck ALL of that.

At the end of the day they'll always think they're right because they believe that killing the girl = automatically superior thought process because you're saving humanity(not)

But he killed the doctors, and like I said, immune people don't know they're immune.
>www.yablew.it

>Sitting around and hoping

They helped themselves and progressed. The Fireflies LITERALLY say around hoping things would get better (while actively making things worse)

there were no clickers yet at the time of the outbreak. The military was overwhelmed by endless amounts of runners and maybe stalkers.

if the USA could get the same proportion of people fighting against the zombies as they had in the armed services during WW2 1945 (so like ~27 million of our 319 million population today), each fighter would only have to kill ~11 infected (not counting their comrades who were turned), even if every single person in the country who was not with them was infected

It would be pretty damn hard to muster or supply an army anywhere near that large during the middle of the chaotic outbreak in TLOU though, so it would probably be more like every soldier had to shoot ~100 infected to kill them all.

Also, many of the guns in america are just horded by a small minority of gun owners. Most people living in the cities, for example, do not legally have guns. And the whole problem is exacerbated by how easily people can get infected by the spores, without ever having even encountered a zombie

Magical zombies, voodoo zombies, or in other words, classic zombies, makes sense to me.

>70% of humanity became infected
That's a low percentage in terms of 'being able to shoot your way through a problem.'

This post is actually helpful. I'm still not convinced, but assuming this post accurately represents the game's narrative, I can see how, with a bit of suspension of disbelief, the mushroom monster apocalypse could wreck the USA.

Thank you for your replies, as I said I haven't played the game so I was just trying to understand the nature of the narrative and you've all been very helpful in that regard, I appreciate it.

Like a lot of fiction you have to suspend your disbelief. No, there is no reason that mushroom people could overwhelm the US military, considering the military fights humans that are capable of actual thought, instead of drones that just run in straight lines. Like what is a zombie going to do to a tank? Absolutely nothing. What is a zombie going to do against a perimeter set up by the military? Again, absolutely nothing. Make them as fast as you want, it doesn't matter. The military is always dispatched with the supplies they need to get the job done. In theory, the military could wipe out millions of infected in one to two days.

Thanks for your reply, I get your point. I am always happy to suspend my disbelief, I wasn't trying to say I couldn't do that, I was just curious what justification the game gave for the mushroom apocalypse. I thank you for your post but I think we are at cross purposes; I wasn't saying 'I am incapable of suspending my disbelief,' I was asking, albeit indirectly, 'how does the game's narrative help the player suspend his disbelief.'

>low percentage
So each human basically has to take down like 70 zombies all by themselves. As a gun owners in Merica, I still don't like my odds of doing this. Mind you not everyone owns a gun in the US. And those that do, don't keep thousands of ro7nds of ammo.

>national guard has billions of bullets

I don't think you have a good grasp of numbers. Assuming a 70% infection rate, the ratio there is three humans to seven mushroom zombies. We're talking about a one-third survival rate; every human would only need to kill just over two mushroom men on average.

Two. Not seventy.

>Most get infected early on

>I'm trying to picture how they could gain a foothold in the USA, it doesn't make sense to me.
1. Zombies keep infecting people even after they have been killed by growing spore-releasing fungal growths from their corpses
2. There is no cure, so you cant just squelch out the problem without going house-to-house across the entire country using gas-mask search-and-destroy teams (and giving summary executions to all team members who get potentially infected.)
3. The outbreak happened very fast and without scientific explanation, and the government/military handled it very poorly, thereby losing the confidence of the public.
5. There was no concerted effort to stamp out the infection. Most people who had guns barricaded themselves in their homes with guns and tried to avoid the violence / looting for as long as possible
6. People turned on eachother for survival and fear of the infection

Even during the black death, people had better survival strategies.

TLOU is actually kind of zombies done right.

The game makes a point of pushing the fact the mushroom spores are half the problem, and given the fact that you can't always see them...

It's easy to imagine a pandemic starting, given that there's a 2-day incubation period when a concentrated dose is injected via bloodstream by a bite and that even "dead" zombies become building-wide spore-shitting factories.

Hospitals, military and civilian, would have been fucked-in-half infected within the first two days of infection, while the two-day incubation period and the fact it was an inhaled spore versus a bite would have made vetting people during the obvious portions of the societal decay hard as fuck.

You can look for a bite or scratch, but not a spore which latched onto your lung and might take a week or two to actually turn you.

There you go then. Billions of bullets ripe for the taking.

That doesn't take into account the original population and all the humans who are just killed, not infected.

No.

The whole point of the pedophile cannibal guy was to highlight this. He was a darker mirror of Joel. Both wanted Ellie to fill some emotional need for them and both eventually valued their emotional needs over their humanity.

Joel is a crazy mass murderer who killed humanity's last real hope so he could go play daddy in the woods with his pretend daughter, until she inevitably figures out what he's done. But the game makes you sympathize with him to the point that all that feels right and justified, which is what makes it one of the best storytelling video games ever made.

Your explanation is great, thank you, I understand everything you're saying.

Now my questions focus on the origin of the outbreak. Because given everything you said, basic quarantine protocols could stymie the spread even after the incubation period.

Did the spores come from space and spread throughout the atmosphere, then infect the world's population simultaneously? Because that kind of makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me that it originated in a specific terrestrial location then managed to spread globally.

Actually, does the game ever state it's a global issue? I just realised I'd been making that assumption, but it's completely baseless until someone who's actually played the game can confirm it.

Not sure what your point is. user essentially said that a 70% infection rate means every human has to kill 70 mushroom men, I was just pointing out those numbers don't work.

Self defense is not murder

Marlene was willing to kill Ellie based on a slight hope of maybe getting a vaccine after having tried a few times before with people in similar circumstances.

Joel wasn't willing to let his surrogate daughter, who he'd seen the closest thing he had to a partner die for, a surrogate daughter who had killed for him and wracked up a decent body count... Joel wouldn't let her die without her at least getting a say in the matter.

Given that both of the above are factual statements, you have five minutes to make Marlene the bad guy and Joel the good guy.

Go.

what was the hardest part of the game to beat on grounded?

for me it was escaping the fucking capitol building in Boston. That part was harder than the firefly lab or the lumber mill for some reason (probably because I only had the 9mm, revolver and the rifle with a few bullets for each at the time)

Grounded is the definition of artificial difficulty.

Just taking away the UI is the most hilariously lazy difficulty mode I've seen in years.

Ditto, but only because it's the only part I refuse to bypass or use sneak attacks to stealth-kill.

First time I played the game, I killed every sumbitch. I made a point of using one of my Molotovs to burn a couple. Until I can crouch and say goodbye to Tess' body, I don't get farther than that part.

It's a tradition I've maintained every single playthrough and will every playthrough in future.

Because fuck those guys in particular.

Joel wouldn't let Ellie die period, because of his selfish need to fill the gap his daughter's death left.
He didn't giver her a "say in the matter", he just made the opposite choice for her. Do you really think, given Ellie's nature, she would have turned down the procedure? If so, why do you think Joel lied to her and told her the procedure failed, instead of explaining that he'd saved her from death?

Joel's choice was for himself. So he had a chance at regaining happiness. At the expense of the entire human race. And the brilliance of the story is that, yeah, it makes you feel like maybe he was right to do that.

>At the expense of the entire human race

You keep saying that but there was never and is no certainty a vaccine can be made, or distributed to enough people of the 40% of humans left to make a difference. And that's if the Clickers or Bandits don't just outright kill those people. A vaccine would just be a nice addon but nothing special in the long game. The true way to restore humanity is stop supporting the Fireflies trying to fucking genocide the military like the fucking retards they are because MUH REBELLION

I tried to bypass last the part where you escape the building, but the soldiers kept spotting me. I didn't have much trouble stealthing through any of the other areas of the game, except maybe the resort town as Ellie (during the blizzard, inside the shops)
Finally I beat it by stealth-killing a bunch of guys until I was inevitably detected, and then shooting the others once in the legs with the revolver. Many of the soldiers had body armor so shooting them in the chest or head was a massive waste

Man I didn't think Cred Forums was capable of an actual discussion that wasn't about porn

I like Asian gangbangs.

Like an Asian getting gangbanged or Asians gangbanging someone?

anyone else find when girls lick the tip of a penis while the dude's underwear is still on is incredibly hot

no guys please

i actually refused to complete this game till i was emotionaly ready for maybe getting the ending i didnt wanna see happen. The ending was what i wanted to happen so I was happy

sometimes characters lie in stories. you know this right? joel was doing a little thing called LYING

The story pretty clearly set up the vaccine as the last best hope for humanity. I mean yeah, logically you can say maybe it wouldn't have worked for reason X or Y or Z, but the story was structured as if this was the one chance left for humanity to escape its current hell.

The whole point of the story was that Joel chose Ellie, his source of hope and healing, over the hope and healing of every other human being alive. Putting the last few minutes of the game in Ellie's perspective so the player could view him mumbling about his daughter from the outside was to show he wasn't a hero, but a sad, kind of pathetic old man who'd found a way to feel less broken in a broken world and was hording it all to himself.

Seriously, the pedophile guy was there to serve as a mirror. Imagine the exact same events unfolding in the hospital, except replace Joel with that guy. Imagine him killing the doctors, squashing humanity's last hope, and then lying to Ellie about what'd happened so she'd willfully come to live with him in the woods. Imagine him choosing his selfish desires for Ellie over humanity.
Would you still be looking for reasons it was justified? Or is it just because the emotional need Joel was fulfilling using Ellie is a lot more palatable and sympathetic than what the pedophile would want her for?

The game does a fantastic job at making you sympathize with Joel and creating a discussion like this. The reason it feels right for Joel to value his chance at a daughter over the entire world is because we as viewers also value their relationship over the dismal world we're presented. Makes it easy to want to justify Joel's choice, even if it is a selfish, pathetic, and even evil choice.

Still nevah woulda worked

It's been confirmed that guy wasn't a pedophillic rapist, just a cannibal that saw Ellie as another strong female capable of helping rebuild humanity one baby at a time like the rest of the women in his group.

I'd also believe that while the story takes a guiding point about the vaccine, it never actually commits to saying it would help, or actually be able to be created in the first place since only the Fireflies push on that subject. To me, Tommy's Citadel is the actual cure in the story, people coming together to rebuild something instead of destroying or simply waiting. While Joel has his own reasons for what he did, those reasons were still legitimate for a "humanistic" outlook since he was saving a girl incapable of consenting from being killed on an operating table. To me, they both serve far better to humanity by rebuilding with Tommy.

...

You have down syndrome if you think that's true

dude what

not the hardest part but the boss fight with david was fucking scary on grounded. I never knew where that nigger was for the third time you had to shank him. He would just appear out of nowhere stabbing me in the heart. Him and the stalkers had the only good AI in the game

Funfact, he's the only NPC in the game that can hear you even while crouched unless you're going VERY slowly

Is it possible to finish the entire game Fist of The North Star style?

Pathologic. Three layers of meaty goodness.

there are a couple parts where you are forced to use a gun (when you are flipped upside-down in Bill's town and when you are manning the sniper rifle in the Pittsburgh suburbs). Also, Bloaters cannot be killed with melee. But pretty much everything else you can take out with just a bottle to throw and your fists (if you even need the bottle.)

This is the only true kino part of that game.

> was he justified dooming humanity
Idk senpai, that teen pussy was crazy good

I don't know if you're still here but you find out from a newspaper or something that the cordyceps infested food coming from south America, presumably infecting everything down there plus any places it was shipped to such as U.S., Europe so it's implied it's worldwide

As would say the master witcher, if the world needs to be saved, it's better that it perishes.

he's got "listen mode" like Joel

>oh boy that was great
>let's check out the DLC

Was Joel a superhero?

>the one zombie enemy with actual AI that's fun to fight
>you encounter them literally twice in the game
also now that I think about it it really doesn't make much sense that the half-way gone infected can use rational thought but the freshly infected just run at you

Is the multiplayer still active? Considering picking it up since the hype/hate has died down and people can actually discuss the game now. Heard good things about the multiplayer consistently though.

my grandfather saw me playing TLOU and asked the same question. Joel is a one man army.

I never use listen mode though, that shit is a crutch. Just use your actual eyes and ears; the enemies make noises and are not that smart

The game is ridiculously easy on normal anyways, it basically lets you play it like a third person shooter if you like.

No, on a 'sake of humanity' scale. But I thought that was the point. You understand why he did what he did but also that the people depicted in the game were the 'Last of Us' because Joel doomed humanity to die out.

fun as fuck.

You have to get gud though.

Who /grounded/ here?

I beat the game on normal first so I could keep all my ammo whenever I loaded up a chapter on survivor or grounded. It is fun to play normal resource-management on the harder difficulties, where you kill most enemies with just punches and bricks - but only to a limited extent. I loved having the ammo to get into heated shootouts vs 10+ guys on survivor or grounded mode, with crazy-dangerous bomb throwing, hostage taking and shotgun blasting action. Shit unfolds like the E3 demo every time

Still people playing it? I would genuinely be surprised if its still active after such a time to be honest.

Could Joel have beaten him up

PS4 is more populated then PS3 but you can find full matches still.

Uncharted 2 and 3 still have active multiplayer communities.

Did that first playthrough. Was astonished to know you could see through walls in the easier modes.

what about clickers and bloaters? And I swear runners could sometimes hear you if you crouch walked full speed right next to them

Nah, they just have a "range" of detection that triggers despite your noise level if you stay close to them too long, that way you can't hug their ass for keks

>first playthrough

Damn. That mode requires exact enemy path memorization.

Firefly hospital is some bullshit level.

I can totally understand joel's urge to fug ellie desu thats why he saved her

degenerate

>Harsher world just called for harsher rules

"lel we've ran out of food so you're just going to have to starve. By the way if you try to leave we will shoot you on sight :)"

It was shown that the military was actively scavenging for more supplies for the people and dying for their trouble from the massive amount of infected.

Plus 100% of people not in a safe zone turn into fucking Raiders or just get infected and contribute to the zombie problem so fuck em if they try and leave

Smoke bombs nigga
Do you even use them??

>killing the other two

Rude.

I didn't know you could stab the first guy. I shot him because he pulled the knife on me and said I could't take her, you can just leave the other two and they'll cower in the corner.

Jesus

They were guilty by association and at that point you got more bullets than you need so best to unload some y'know

Literally this.

Joel's brother was a member of the Fireflies too before he left so he knows all too well how fucking useless they are. The Fireflies are no different to the military, Tommy actually left and did something productive by building that community.

It's mentioned several times that he left because he didn't like what they'd become and that the heroic rebellion was just a load of horse shit

I kind of wish that the finale would have been a little more climactic. Like Joel lets the Clickers and whatever else in to keep the Fireflies busy (kind of like Miguel at the end of Day of the Dead), and you have to get Ellie out amidst the chaos.

>tfw Joel isn't your brother
>tfw Joel isn't your father
>tfw you're not badass like Joel

If it makes you feel any better, Joel would probably let you follow him around a while until you're inevitably killed off violently in a cutscene

I personally loved shanking every single one of those firefly pricks. I enjoy killing the ones who believe their the good guys the most. Possibly my fav climax (especially since I saw it coming ever since the line from Bill after you tell him the plan to take her to the fireflys "You have no idea what you're doing, do you?")

>when Tommy says he still has nightmares about what him and Joel did to survive
>when Joel says "he ain't hurt" before telling Ellie to put her seatbelt on
>when Tess says "We're shitty people, Joel" and he responds with "We're survivors!" before she shakes her head

That's an interesting thing about Joel, actually. He's not the typical edgy survivor that wants no one around; he doesn't care as long as you keep up and don't do anything stupid.
>>when Joel says "he ain't hurt" before telling Ellie to put her seatbelt on
When was that?

I hate the part where that black guy leaves Joel to die and then later he's like "SHEEEIT DON'T BE MAD WITH ME, I JUST SAVED YOU FROM DROWNING"

Nigger, he wouldn't have nearly drowned if you just reached down and gave him a hand for 10 seconds while he climbed up onto the truck.

When they are driving into the city a guy limps into the middle of the road and starts shouting for help. Ellie says "Are we going to help him?" or something like that and then Joel puts his seatbelt on before saying "He ain't hurt" and floors it.

It was an ambush. Ellie asks him later how he knew and he says "I've seen it before, from both sides"

Nah, it made perfect sense for him to leave Joel. There was practically no time left and he wasn't willing to let him or his brother die for a stranger he just met. I wish there were more characters like Henry, genuinely decent people but who are still going to do their best to survive.

>when was that?
youtube.com/watch?v=fvPbILroeG8

Oh right, for some reason I thought that line was Joel referring to himself.

Why the fuck did they pass up on making some DLC about Joel right after the outbreak? Who the fuck cares about Ellie and her friend that she mentioned a few times?

Henry's ending was fucking bullshit, yo

First time a cinematic trailer has made me want t play a game.

I feel like that tactic wouldn't still work 20 years after everything has gone to shit. People would've wised up and not fallen for such an obvious ambush.
It made sense for him to an hero after losing the one thing that made him still care about surviving. He's an interesting mirror of Joel in that sense.

I don't remember that shit on my playthrough. I never had enough resources for anything.

How do I git gud to beat grounded?

On Survivor I don't think you can even find enough explosives to make more than three or four items, and you'll rarely make the nail bombs since you need blades to make shivs since the shiv doors are so vital.

Even shiv doors are shit in grounded. Shivs are better applied on last minute clickers to clear that level.

Yeah it's bullshit. They said they're probably going to leave Joel and Ellie's story now so the next game will have new characters.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, normally I hate when developers drag out characters too long (I'm referring to Master Chief in the Halo series)

Naughty Dog did a good job with finishing the Uncharted series, I do hope we get more of Joel and Ellie though, the chemistry between the two of them was great. I'm not sure if it would be the same with one or two different people.

I'd like to see the early outbreak, Tommy and Joel going mental and the military struggling to maintain order. Maybe a big rush to a supermarket before an infected person in the crowd creates chaos, people trampling each other and shit. It would be so intense.

It's on sale now on PSN if for some bizarre reason you own a Playstation 3/4 without this game.

I think their story should end where it ended, anything more would just suffer from aimlessness and make their relationship stale. Seeing Joel and Tommy right after Sarah dies would be pretty badass though. We could see a brother-brother relationship, Joel dealing with Sarah's death, and them just trying to survive in general.

I would like to play as the military both during and after the outbreak

Would be too cool to be done. Also, it would probably drastically change the game mechanics.

>when you go into the sewers and find the remains of that little community that got overrun
>those voice recordings and little notes from that guy who was so happy that he finally found other survivors
>that voice recording of the woman trapped in the room with the children while the infected are killing everyone outside

>you will never settle in the cozy cannibal town having a pint in the comfy tavern
>you will never just sit beside the lake and not worry about anything because there are no infected around and there is enough deer in the cool house

Why live

Killing that sniper gave me more satisfaction that any souls game ever did.

In the little side area in the locked room I encountered 2 clickers in military uniforms. I thought they were the two protectors from the image the kids drew but it turns out those guys escaped. Weird. Sad ending anyway.

I was legit surprised when I found out that David(?) was played by Nolan North. The dude's got range when he wants to.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_North#Video_games

>that survivors guilt afterwards

Felt sorry for those guys.They boarded up the exit and sprayed "INFECTED INSIDE" to warn anyone else.

That whole area was depressing, especially because the had a children's play area and nursery.

That's how I felt about Joel. I'm not really a fan of Troy Baker because I feel he's in everything and after a while he's easy to recognise in games.

That being said, his Joel voice was great. It helps that Joel is Texan and so is Troy Baker.

I thought David was played by a south park VA

>movie games

>meme responses

Did you play it

Come on, user. You already know he didn't

...

kek, nice damage control kid.

i could literally show you a timestamped photo of my copy of this movie

But did you play it

But why would he post this without having played it previously? Did he watch a playthrough? Any game is a movie game if you watch someone else play it.

>posting in threads for games you don't like

Yeah, you're definitely on the spectrum.