Literally impossible without months of practice. Artificial difficulty at its finest...

It must be hard being retarded

It's just practice user.

I have a rough time doing Down, Backwards, Forwards. These things always end up being command grabs too and it's annoying

Enter training mode, pick a character with a half-circle move, and then practice doing it. Start just doing the motion slowly without pressing anything, and then try picking up the pace and actually pressing the button. Make sure to have input display on to see what part you miss, if any, to try and be more aware of that section of the motion.

Really the only thing you have to keep in mind is to actually start it at the proper place, and not hit the button until you reach the end.

>this bait

That being said I've been pulling my hair out practicing IAD-DP in Guilty Gear on stick.

Literally learned to do it before I started kindergarten

They need to make a gamepad version of DDR, so all of these people can shut the fuck up. DDR with charts using these same motions and there'd be no complaining at all.

Some Fighting game inputs are absolutely fucking retarded but a DP motion isn't THAT difficult

What's your worst motion, Cred Forums?

Double half-circles for me. Fuck any move that uses that.

I just started playing fighting games yesterday and I already know how to do a perfect z-motion. Get better bait, fuckbucket

tiger knee, if you fuck up your toon jumps and gets fucked

I know OP is just shitposting, but remember that we share a board with people who unironically think this

That fucking
7hold973+kx3
Vega has as an ultimate.
>mfw seeing the required input for the first time

Any charge motion.
I'm a pad player and my hands cramp up after a few games of using charge moves.

I usually just do a double quarter circle and it almost always works except sometime I do an ultimate hadoken for some reason.

This as well There are few optimized punishes for Sol in Xrd that start with IAD DP. This stuff is brutal and would probably kill OP.

>just press diagonal twice
Where and why did this meme start if it doesn't work??

>toon

Come on user, I can do that on a fucking keyboard
Press right, release right, press down, keep down pressed, press right

I'm convinced I will never do this bitch's instakill in AC+R
>f+taunt+d(3sec)+u+b+f+d+p+hs

the input should reflect the output; if it's a rising uppercut it's input should end upward.
A quarter circle forward to upward.

/thread, anyone who posted after this is a colossal faggot

shut the fuck up you big gay autist

honestly i dont entirely disagree with you.

I'm teaching my friend SF and he's really starting to get it, he could dp after like day 2 though so maybe you need to just really try a new input method or start slow in a training mode

...

Sounds like a really good way to jump when you dont need to.

>Press forward, do a fireball movement
>forward
You can't really do it when cancelling light crouching normals into dp. Pretty much have to start with diagonal.

No idea but the input is: Right, Down, then Diagonal Down Right
It's not that hard

pic related would fit better imo

You ever use fei long, cammy? or any of the grapplers in the SFIV or gief in V?
its fairly easy to get the hang of not jumping at the end of the input. takes a bit of restraint is all

this isn't that difficult. it's just the first 2 inputs that are awkward. then you do half circle back

i don't know whats the problem with half circles for example doing dudley's machine gun blow is easy and i am able to do it on both sides but when it comes to ryu's donkey kick i can only do it on the left side and not on the right, and also i can pull off yun's command grab on both sides but makoto's command only on the left side i don't know what's the problem
i am talking about street fighter 3s.
i have googled it a lot but can't really find a solution or the root of the problem, please someone tell me here

I am
are
He is
She is
It is
You are
They are

I mostly play anime. Im familiar with TK motions, and can do them just fine most of the time, but if im doing a dp reversal or something i don't what the up motion there to mess me up.

Its taking a 3 part motion into a 4 part motion. I see no reason for that.

when will you faggots just admit that Mortal Kombat is the best all-around fighting game?

>button commands are a healthy medium in-between Smash Bros and Street Fighter
>easy to pick up AND has a high skill cap
>there's a block button so you don't have to move backwards to block
>so-stupid-it's-funny plots/characters/etc.
>over the top blood and gore, but in the goofy metal way, not the edgy way
>don't look like a turbo-weeb for playing it

>two threads about 2d fighters compared to smash

The fuck is this

This is bait but you've given me the opportunity to say that even Smash is more technical than Flowchart Kombat

Wtf op I can do this on an snes controller gitgud

no one?

This shit reminds me of the days of SF2. You think the DP motion is hard now? In SF2, the execution is much less forgiving yet when people weren't able to perform it then they didn't blame it on "bad design" rather it was on their own lack of skill.

Modern gamers truly are an entitled, whiny cancer.

>retarded female designs
>skill cap isn't high in comparison to other 2D fighters, gameplay boils down to 50/50 safe on block mixups into long juggle combo
>block button is for scrubs, lowers the skill ceiling by negating crossups
>plot is good, I'll give you that
>gore is good
>stop being insecure

When will you faggots admit MK sucks and the best all-around fighting game is Guilty Gear[/spoier]

Are you playing on stick or on pad? If it's on stick, make sure that you're completing the motion. 41236 works, but 1236 or 4123 won't get you the move.

so much this

I actually just figured this out today.

When people say that, they mean that in Smash 4, Ryu can Dp by pressing diagonal twice. Doesn't apply to street fighter at all.

Its all in your head user. If you can do MGB with Dudley on both sides you can do any other character's moves as well. Don't rush the input. Just make sure you do it right the first time. Be specific with yoyr directional inputs you know? Then worry about how fast you can do it. I only replied because you're a third strike bro.

>western """""""""""""""(((fighters)))""""""""""""""""""

Doesn't work in every fighting game with a dragon punch motion. This is actually a reason why having an octogate on a stick is a bad idea.

>Doesn't work in every fighting game with a dragon punch motion.
does

Yeah, but you get used to that and then it's an entirely different input each game.

I have a square gate. What's the difference? I honestly think that if I had an octagonal gate, it would be easier for people to use my stick and learn, as of right now, my friends just are absolutely retarded and freak out when they use a stick.

yeah i don't know why it keeps changing. ivy mains must hate that

>proving my turbo-weeb point

I'm not even good at fighting games and I know that motion is just forward+first two steps of a forward quarter circle. I can't pull I off reliably and fighting games make me mad, but I understand how simple it is in theory.

>are absolutely retarded and freak out when they use a stick
Just explain them they don't have to ride the gate, triggering microswith is enough.

Some people believe that that works because they're idiots that don't realize that doing two diagonal inputs cleanly is difficult.
Most people will go to down between the two inputs and that's why it works.

>don't look like a turbo-weeb for playing it
Ninjas! Cyborgs! Fanservice ninja princess chicks! Also featuring karate people, gods, mutants and guy in samurai armor.
If this doesn't scream "weeb" (west trying to look like east), then I don't even know.

Throw engage is the big one. Being able to lock the stick in a corner is better for knowing for damn sure you are holding down right or left, up.

Learning with a restricted gate creates bad habits like relying on riding the gate.

Even I don't know what the fug that means.
This makes sense.
Still don't really know what riding the gate means.

Riding the gate is hitting the sides. So move your stick a direction, hear the click, keep moving it till you feel "gate". some people thinking riding the gate is a bad thing. What they are saying is a bad habit is never letting your stick go back to neutral.

Well at least the 5 incarnation is pretty straight forward.
Summon Suffering is just a brave edge and Calamity Symphony doesn't have any pesky diagonals.

Riding the gate means that the stick is literally being pushed as far as it can go.

So no gate?

Ironically enough, MK is one of the weebiest fighting games out there, due to being an entirely western creation that has a mad hard on for ninjas and jap/china-y shit, though in an admittedly more stupid, campy 80's action movie sort of way.

For the love of god though, they could at least put in the slightest bit of effort with name pronunciations. The way they pronounce Raiden and Takeda drives my weeb-ass up the fucking wall.

A stick has to have a gate. That's the housing for it. The difference between an octogonal and square gate is that an octogonal is just a square gate with corners cut off. It's unnecessary.

A lot of octo users have this issue. The reason why they get the octo in the first place is to feel the forward, back, down. Which is why a lot of beginners get octos. It doesn't feel right to them.

This. People could be playing UT4 or Reflex but instead they play TF2 or Overwatch.

Hitting the gate is just hitting. Riding the gate is using the gate to feel were the stick is without going back to neutral.

This is a strange concept to me unless im misunderstanding it. Every stick i have owned the space between a the stick clicking and the stick hitting the gate is negligible at best. I had no idea people had a problem with that.

Not really. crowns don't and fantas have a metal plate that is circle. Also Happs are circle as well.

its the main reason why people get octo in the first place.

nice bait
just use down->downright>down

How can a stick not have a gate? If you push it in any direction it would have to stop at some point.

Happ is the "american" stick. once in a while you find an old man using one.

it hits the mounting plate. Lift the washer on your stick and you will see a circle. those sticks hit that.

Thanks for the bait

No words necesary, you should know what it is.

whats the point of having these retarded inputs? why cant every game just be like Smash?

...

>he can't do the pretzel
Raging Storm isn't anywhere near as hard as people say, the difficulty lies in the fact that it was made for being done on a Neo-Geo controller, where it's easy because of its exact sensitivity calibration.

ya hit that with an octo. But also look at the throw engage compared to a japanese stick.

I like my command normals thank you very much.

give him a game with distance normals.

No extremes. A game like SFV has a great usage of motions that aren't needlessly complicated.

You just do qrtr circles, half circles, srk/dp, charges, and 360 motions. That's all you really need.

I believe this shortcut (323) doesn't work in some games.

Now Akira Yuki is a character who has some difficult/strict inputs.
tfw can't do that knee move where you hold g for 1 frame

Inputs are often designed to balance attacks. Full circle(actually three quarter circles in most modern games) command grabs are longer inputs to make them harder to do on reaction as an example.

And besides that, Smash games have comically small movesets compared to most fighting games.

Its a modern game thing. and 360 only needs to be up, down, left, right.

>Inputs are often designed to balance attacks. Full circle(actually three quarter circles in most modern games) command grabs are longer inputs to make them harder to do on reaction as an example

This. It's why Gief became super broken in the HD version of SF2, because his throws became way easier to perform compared to the original game.

Why do you keep making this thread?

>Its a modern game thing
Shortcut is a modern thing or shortcut not working?
Because I believe it doesn't work in BlazBlue, you have to start with forward. But maybe I'm wrong.

Short cut more for SF. I think in GG rev there is the corner corner for dp. But I can't say for sure if its in older games.

fighting game motions are easy to get but that's still not an excuse to have them where it's not necessary, or to have harder ones than necessary

also motions aside the fgc itself is cancer and THATS whats killing fighting games.

...

>healthy medium in-between Smash Bros and Street Fighter

That would be Killer Instinct.

Thats chicken wing mate, not DP

>When people say that, they mean that in Smash 4, Ryu can Dp by pressing diagonal twice. Doesn't apply to street fighter at all.
ive heard it before smash 4 was even a thing actually, that 33 or 232 are supposed to be valid to sf4

Once you start playing enough it starts making sense in your brain.

Some anime fighter has the star as well. I think it is one of the melty blood games.

>And if you tap the button...?

>it doesn't even tell you what the attack does

D R O P P E D

the best fighting game is Ace Combat Assault Horizon

it has
>stupid stick motions that arent listed anywhere
>combos
>charge moves
>horrendous sound design
and it's even a bad game. why isnt it at EVO right behind Marvel?

We need David's star input as well.

>not playing quake
Your argument is invalid.

Pretzel is easy once you get a hang of it.
Double half circle is harder

>Reflex
didnt you post this in the Fast Games thread and get told to fuck off because it is neither fast nor a game

232 is valid

It does in some versions of SF, like SFIV. Not sure about SFV since I haven't really play that one, let alone played shotas.

Definitely doesn't work in Third Strike, though. That one is very strict with it's inputs.

>for the same reason games like CoD
CoD is honestly harder to learn than fighters, I think. there's no execution barrier but you need a lot of awareness of the maps, guns, and common perk loadouts and a good strategy to make your own classes worth a shit

someone getting into CoD for the first time is going to spend a lot of time dying, usually getting shot from positions they didn't know existed or were accessible, or by weapons they don't even have access to being boosted by perks and attachments they won't unlock themselves for another 40 hours.

the difference is that CoD is fun

>and AC
there are so many games you could abbreviate to AC and none of the ones im thinking of have multiplayer anyone cares about

what game are you talking about. Ace Combat? Assetto Corsa? Do people even play AC:I deathmatch? is tehre even a deathmatch mode in that game

>Doesn't apply to street fighter at all.

Yes, it does. In SF4 and SF5.

>Shotas

pretty much every "scrub complaint" levied against fighters only really applies to SF4

SF4 is a fucking terrible game. literally every other fighter is better than it in some way, and there is a fighter out there to placate every "scrub complaint".

SF4 is just hot garbage and not fun

>In SF4
>literally doesn't work as seen here
You probably hit any other direction as well. Pressing two diagonals won't get you dp.

It can easily take months to get proficient with a FG character. I can learn a map in a day. It's not even comparable.

Guilty Gear is the opnly game I've playyed that does TK DP like that, most games do 239

Shotas is short for a shotacon fighter, not little boys that you like to fuck, pedo.

Salty fighting-fags are going to go the same way as RTS fags.

Don't complain when the genre is all but dead in 10 years time. You wanted this.

What exactly is the point of shit like pretzels and double half-circles, Cred Forums? I'm trying to improve at fighting games so I've been practicing the more normal motions but stuff like that is crazy.

Now, those are pretty retarded inputs

At least it will die with dignity.

I thought it was shoto

It's called "shotokan" dummy, hence why they're called shotos and not shotas.

elitism

its literally so people can troll with/in these threads. thats it. thats the only reason.

It's Tiger Knee

Yeah, and Smash and DotA will live on, while fighting games and RTS will die off harder than collect-a-thon platformers.

And this is coming from someone who put in 500 hours into Brood Wars.

youtu.be/_laZyBnClDQ?t=141

there's a reason why people think using a hitbox controller is cheating

Those more extreme inputs are for balancing really good moves. It may seem kind of silly but sometimes those moves can be cancelled in from a combo or have properties that give you the upperhand.

>just buy a 60-100 dollar controller user on top of your 60 dollar game
yeah nah

it's "shoto"

its named after a real life fighting style (which ryu's moves look nothing like, but w/e)

>It can easily take months to get proficient with a FG character.
you are complete shit at video games and the more i read these threads the more it seems like FGC elitists are just bad at games in general.

DSP placed at EVO, after all.
youtube.com/watch?v=QhN0mChnp0A
youtube.com/watch?v=BpEyjh839X8

What's the difference between a bad control scheme and a deliberately obtuse and archaic one?

There is none.

It's just a command grab.
youtu.be/cqJ7QAHshWo
Super is a strangely un-flashy game.

You say this as if changing the control scheme to be retard friendly would suddenly boost fg's popularity past the first month or so.

Do you not remember Rising Thunder?

You dumbass.

Must be hell on the fingers though.

is it because the hitbox could hypothetically enable one to block both directions simultaneously?

The only game i cant into is tekken.
So many complex combos

Changing the control scheme should've happened in the 6th gen. It's far too late now. Fighting games are doomed.

DSP played that game for years dumbass. He didn't just pick the game up a week earlier.
If you knew what you were talking about you would know that.

Not when you play Fei

No. It doesn't work like that.

God damnit, I'm going to fucking bed. i've stayed up too late and now I'm retarded.

pretty much every "scrub complaint" levied against fighters only really applies to GG

GG is a fucking terrible game. literally every other fighter is better than it in some way, and there is a fighter out there to placate every "scrub complaint".

GG is just hot garbage and not fun

I just feel like it's in bad faith to have what is essentially a manual say "lol juss try it urself :^)"

like, nigga, I checked this to see what it does. Why keep it from me? Why have the menu at all?

In badly designed games it could.S
See: Marvel 3

It's called a Tiger Knee motion for a reason.

Doing Geese's Rising Storm with a forward half circle wouldn't feel right. Don't be such a fucking pleb, i would get complaining about Deadly Rave or something like that but you need to be brain dead to not be able to pull a God damn pretzel or double half circle.

>Blazblue better than Guilty gear.

No

It's a ranbu now.

Im saying i doubt changing the control scheme at any point would ever "save" fg's. People are just bad at them, traditional inputs or not.

pretty much every "scrub complaint" levied against fighters only really applies to BB

BB is a fucking terrible game. literally every other fighter is better than it in some way, and there is a fighter out there to placate every "scrub complaint".

BB is just hot garbage and not fun

it does work like that in some games but not others. i dont remember off hand which games do or dont but it happens

which GG because theres like 900 of them and im sure some of them are bad

he literally says "I was a newcomer to the game" at around 14 minutes in

people who played the game for most of their adult life got fuckken bodied by fucking DSP

>mfw his mini tirade about pads
lmao that shit still happens, I used to go to my actual local scene at this gaming lounge nearby, you were barely allowed in if you played on a pad, ESPECIALLY a 360 pad

I know, they should have made the input easier but not an outright easy mode ranbu.

Rising Thunder was pretty popular but Riot bought it out instantly before the fanbase could grow

pretty much every "scrub complaint" levied against fighters only really applies to Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax

Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax is a fucking terrible game. literally every other fighter is better than it in some way, and there is a fighter out there to placate every "scrub complaint".

Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax is just hot garbage and not fun

Eh it's not a big deal since pretty much the only time you're gonna do it is on a knockdown or cancelled from another super, just makes correcting it from super parry less of a pain in the ass.

This is true desu, fuck Shana.

Did you actually play Rising Thunder?
It was alive for like 3 weeks then it died and a couple of months later Riot bought it.

It definitely would've helped. There's a reason both Smash Melee and Smash 4 are far more popular - they're easily accessible, have a low skill floor, and have an insanely high skill ceiling. Plus, they're fast and every character has insane mobility, at least by fightan standards.

The refusal to change is what killed competitive RTS. What took over my favorite competitive genre was the idea that everything should remain fundamentally the same and not try to reach out to potential new players. SC2 could only hold off the inevitable for a little bit, but it too failed because of the esoteric nature of the genre. There's no new players joining. This led to a problem where slowly, but surely, everyone started leaving from the bottom up. When there were no longer any players I could beat, I gave up, and when I gave up, the people who were just slightly better than me lost people that they could sometimes beat. No one wants to lose all the time, so they all quit.

Fightan has nowhere near the small but dedicated fanbase Shmups have, and nowhere near the amount of people needed to keep a franchise afloat, like Smash.

He said that he was considered a newcomer by the guys who had been playing for twelve years.

Fuck, i could barely do any of Vegas inputs in SF4. So glad they changed him up for 5

I play stinky selvaria !!

I remember it being hot shit for about two days and then no one talking about it ever again.

What few complaints about it I heard were mostly just that it's a bad fighter in general, and that it had no scene (and no marketing). Things that wouldn't be solved by making it no longer "retard friendly" and forcing charge pretzels on every character.

What probably would make new non-SF fighting games not kill would be to not call anyone on the fence about trying them retards. The FGC is cancer and that's what fucks up fighting game releases. People try them out, everyone they play with is a huge shitbag, and then they quit because regardless of whether the game is fun or not it's filled with scum.

It was decently popular for a little bit, mostly because of people who played fighting games in the first place.

It still had quite a few people who complained about losing to things like fireballs or tick throws. The people at the top of the boards were all just notable players from other fighters. Having no special inputs didnt do much to save people from losing anyway.

It hadn't even released yet when Riot bought it, that's how quick they jumped on it

>It hadn't even released yet

>Smashfags can't pretzel
Lmao never pick up KOF

What's the full story here? Did they seriously buy it out just so it wouldn't exist, or something? If so, is this in the Cred Forums Conspiracy Corner sense like how Bethesda sabotaged Obsidian in the making of New Vegas, or is it an actually documented hostile takeover like Microsoft did to other computer shit manufacturers during its teenage years and Bad Dragon does to furry outlets today?

>Cannot figure that shit out within the first 5 minutes.

This is bait right?

It was still in "alpha" phases. It was at one point going to be updated with new characters. But the game still had players running into fighting game issues. youtube.com/watch?v=PkmjCuVfKIs this basically.

Theres a difference here though. The RTS genre never changed because there were hardly any titles that fit into that category in the first place. It was pretty much SC and SC2 and nothing else. Maybe a flavor of the month every year or so.

Fighting games come out all the fucking time now, and pretty much any title around you can find competitive play somewhere. Of course the numbers for the more niche ones will never match things like MK or SF but they dont need to. These games still get made and played all the time.

And by the way, the biggest reason that smash is so big is probably because its nintendo characters fighting each other. Thats the main reason its so huge. The easy inputs help people get into it, but really not that many people play it on a competitive level.

>everyone they play with is a huge shitbag
"I have never been to locals: the post".
I used to run Melty locals few years before, and everyone was really friendly (unless some retard started complaining about "unfair" moves and characters).
Being bad was fine, as long as you had patience and desire to learn, but being new and talking shit as if you know the game was forbidden.

how is that so hard

>This stale bait again
I can execute that move, with 100% accuracy, 100% of the time, on an Xbox 360 d-pad, and I'm Scrubby McScrubberson
Have you tried git gud?

RT was never going to be released, it was a proof of concept to try and sell a simpler fighting game.

If RT didn't manage to get picked up it most likely would've gotten 2 more characters then "released" with a few more bug fixes.

Pretending it was cut down in its prime (or before it had a chance to grow) is just wishful thinking. Game was dead and a new character wouldn't have brought people back.

also the issue with fighting games is min 5:21 in. That is what kills players, not inputs.

Hey retard, 1 2 & 3 are on the bottom row.

the difference between LE EBIN HARD games and KoF specifically is that KoF is fun

>tick throws
thats actually bullshit though, I feel that's something opaque enough that losing to it would be frustrating because you're being put into outright hopeless situations where you CANNOT do anything. you're in a state where you're still in blockstun, but now you're getting thrown, but can't tech it because you weren't at neutral. it's not apex bullshit, but it's getting stupid alarmingly quickly.

the problem with "retard friendly" fighters is that they don't address the actual root concerns ("the system is opaque", "success or failure is too self-reinforcing", etc) and instead address surface symptoms ("I don't understand how to escape command grabs", "combos are too hard to execute", etc)

they need actual playtesting and outside influence or they're just gonna stagnate and die as the pro players who have been at it for 20-30 years so far start retiring or getting real jobs or whatever. literally only SF sells, and it sells on name alone. Cuz people know that they're not gonna have fun with fighters.

>they're winning, but they're not getting better as players
What is gitting gud if it's not winning? wtf man

Have you seen what proof of concept game looks like. They spent a lot of time and effort on a fucking pitch. Had voice acting...

Sometimes I miss practicing this shit

>you're still in blockstun
>but now you're getting thrown
You don't get thrown out of blockstun though??

Ok Cred Forums. Choose your main from this image.
Now describe their playstyle.

>tfw op lured us into a legit fighting game discussion with his shitty bait thread
clever girl

Because the classic, can beat an "intelligent player" but they get bodied by retard DP ken.

Fuck off Ghodere, stop playing SFV

>mfw RT was just sf4-lite with all its vortex shit except with no crouch tech, so I shit on all my fighting friends so hard that no one would play with me

That game made it so easy to crush beginners it was unreal

>outright hopeless situations where you CANNOT do anything. you're in a state where you're still in blockstun, but now you're getting thrown, but can't tech it because you weren't at neutral.

??? You cant throw someone in block stun in almost any fighting game besides bb.

>What is gitting gud if it's not winning? wtf man

Hes saying wins and losses dont matter if you arent learning why you are winning. Focusing on the contents of a match is far more important then the result.

shut up nothing else has the same scene ok

Recette.
Ragnarok Battle Offline female Merchant moveset with adventurer summons (that work like Nero summons in Melty) for money you get for parrying or selling random items (which you can use instead, like Phoenix Wright items in MvC3).

months? you complete fucking casual.

This elitism needs to end. There is NO game out there that doesn't require you learn it. Even the most braindead shit like PopCap cash grab mobile games require people play and play and play, and start out losing (or at least not doing well, if it's a game with no formal lose state)

Fighting games don't lose players because "oh wah wah i want free wins ;_;" -- just look at games like Dark Souls or Hyper Light Drifter or whatever. Their marketing relies solely on how hard the games are. Those are singleplayer games, but look at common "normie" MP games like CoD or LoL or whatever -- every game, someone has to lose, and in the course of losing, you're probably going to die a lot.
>bbbut then they blame their team!!
This only happens in shitty MOBAs, and even then, there's still the personal growth of keeping your own character alive. Even if you're on the winning team, and you're at the bottom of the scoreboard, that still hurts, and still drives improvement.

The problem with fighters is that there's something broken in the link between "Fuck Up" and "Keep Playing Anyway". People continue playing MOBAs and CoD and Dark Souls and such because they're fun. Even at the bottom of the scoreboard, you probably had some amount of fun that you want to replicate, and will be willing to git gud to replicate more times instead of sitting in spectator mode. Fighters are missing some part of that.

That's really what it comes down to. Fighters just aren't fun on some level. Which is a shame, because I've had plenty of fun playing fighters, but I probably had a stroke or something at some point to be so retarded as to unironically enjoy P4A

I got tick mixed with kara and had to look it up so i assumed in Rising Thunder you can get thrown out of blockstun because that is totally a thing in some games and that's what google told me tick throws are

and yet if you ask any actual FGC member, they'll tell you that you don't deserve to have fun until you've put in months of play time to master just one half of one character and you gotta persevere for years and years etc etc

the FGC genuinely believes it takes months to git gud and just learn how to do a shoryu

Nah fuck that, better roster here

>and yet if you ask any actual FGC member, they'll tell you that you don't deserve to have fun until you've put in months of play time

Who the fuck said this? And why did you take them seriously? Did you pull this from GameFAQ's or something?

Because you need to come to terms that you as a player suck in some way. That is why people drop from fighting games. People don't like to reflect why they suck.

>FGC genuinely believes it takes months to git gud
It really depends on your definition of being good.
I've been playing one character since Xrd console release, and I still learn something new every single time, especially when I watch arcade replays. So I'm still learning, and it takes months.

Tick throws are when you're out of block/hit stun but only just.
Kara throws are empty cancelled throws, usually to gain range but sometimes to fake a move to be blocked. I fucked up the kara in the webm and walked forward a bit because I don't play Ken but that is still kara cancelled.

>the FGC genuinely believes it takes months to git gud and just learn how to do a shoryu
Lmao no
It'll take years to get good and getting good isn't just being able to DP whenever you want.

true. that is one of the main appeals of fgs to me tho. I like that it is so easy to identify how and why you suck, and there are always resources readily available to help you improve

>Focusing on the contents of a match is far more important then the result.
The problem here is that the FGC is conflating fun with winning. You don't have to win to have fun.

The issue is that in a lot of fighters (not ALL fighters -- just most of the popular ones like you see at Evo) have a variety of issues that just make them frustrating to play. Not frustrating in the sense of "I'm losing, argh, I'm so salty!" but more literally, like "my efforts are being blocked in some way. This isn't really fun."

Like SF4, the slow animations paired with the actual APM feels janky as fuck. I think it's a huge issue for newcomers. Nothing really happens while you're smashing like 900 buttons in a row, but there's also a ton of multi-hitting moves and things that cancel into eachother that make you commit to rather long maneuvers for just one input. The speed of the game is a little inconsistent. It's a little thing, but enough to make the game NOT FUN rather than TOO HARD.

I've had some success having people play P4A more than Marvel or SF because of this, since the economy of actions lines up better with the buttons you're pressing. Push A, slash your sword. Push A twice, slash twice. In SF, that's either do a 90f medium kick, or cancel immeidately into Lightning Legs. Even if you have a life lead on the opponent, that's a little strange. For an experienced player, that's a non issue, but it's enough to make a newbie go "What the heck? That's strange. I'd rather play something not so strange."

No one actually drops fighting games because they lost. People lose at games they're new at. No one has picked up any game, video or sport or board or whatever else, without first sucking at it. Even in games of pure chance, there's still those first few "games" where you play for zero-stakes just to get acquainted with the rules.

This is the cancer turning players off of the FGC. When someone says "Hey, I'm not having fun with this. Is there some trick to having fun?" instead of saying "Well, here's how you have fun with this toy, let's have some fun!", you just insult them and say they must just be salty babies to not share your exact tastes in vidya.

>Lightning Legs
You have to mash buttons in SFIV for legs though. Want multi-hitting legs - press kick multiple times.

It can be summed up that you don't know how the combo system works in the game.

I started fighting games with BlazBlue so all these double half circles and loaded semis are fine for me

It's not the worst, but shit like pic related really fucks with me. Two directions before a counter is just retarded, rarely would you be able to pull this kind of shit off in an actual match unless they telegraph like a Dark Souls boss.

>You have to mash buttons in SFIV for legs though
Nope. Just push it twice in rapid succession and you'll get a tiny bit of legs. You mash to extend it.

No you have to hit 5 kick inputs.

It's quite hard to do on purpose and is part of why I dropped Honda.

I can read frame data and watch youtubes. Doesn't make it not feel janky to play. But that's easily solved with "don't play SF4" because SF4 is the only game I've played that I have that complaint about.

But good job proving my point dudes -- you LITERALLY cannot think of fun being separate from winning.

If they are not having fun they can quit or move onto another game. Fighting games, 2d fighting games and 3d fighting games in the spirit of Virtua fighter and Street fighter tend to be a bit of masochistic endeavours.

>The problem here is that the FGC is conflating fun with winning.

Some people do, but the FGC is pretty large dude. You arent going to find a global consensus on most things in this.

>you just insult them and say they must just be salty babies to not share your exact tastes in vidya.

Maybe online with randoms, but you will never see this type of behavior at locals.

Locals tend to be chill.
Smashing buttons in any fighter is going to get you bodied. Because that is not how it works.

i believe the arcade version of doa 2 had holds with 2 directions as standard for all of the characters lol. i kinda wish it was still like that so it would not be so easy to just mashem out when you're in hitstun

Regular lightning legs in SFIV is not used outside of her lightning legs loop. And even with that you need 5 kick inputs and the last input has to be medium kick.

most people that I know that are serious about fighting games conflate learning with fun.

DOA has throws and counters iirc.

And you dont have to win to learn. In fact i would say most of the time you learn more by losing then you would by winning.

>Cred Forums cant do basic inputs
meanwhile here's a dog doing them.

youtube.com/watch?v=dPuyagq27hs

No but you do run into personality types that don't learn either way and dwell on the loss or get giant ego's when they win and cloud the learning process.

It's hurricane upper.

>Cancel's prejump frames to make it unthrowable
Shit this dog's got some tech.

>If they are not having fun they can quit or move onto another game.
And then you rant on and on for 200 posts about how they're just a scrub and capcom please don't change a thing and omg if youre not having fun you must just be LOSING so on so forth forever

it's the FGC that loses players just as much as the games themselves.

>masochistic endeavours
they're not. I don't know where this dumbass elitism comes from. these are easy games that just require a bit of grinding to get the execution, and the execution is the major impediment to high level play. Other games are just as masochistic, if not moreso. There are people who, to this day, unironically play instant respawn 32 player Shipment FFA in CoD4.

>but you will never see this type of behavior at locals.
Oddly enough, at my local scene, I saw a bit of it from the SF people. Never from the really good players though -- only the random middling guys. Like, I'd play with some recognizable top tier guy because it's a slow night and his usual partner is off in the shitter or whatever, and he'd have actual protips for me instead of "well, just git gud, dude." Or I'd say "yeah this isn't fun, I'm gonna go back to [GAME]" and he'd say "yeah it's not for everyone. have fun.". Say the same kind of thing to some random dude, and you see his neckbeard twitch. Get bodied and you get to see whispy white guys holler and hoot like detroit niggers. Just play something non-SF on the next cab over and they start talking shit.

I'll be honest I haven't played SF4 in ages (because I dislike it) so maybe I'm misremembering but pretend I put in some other extendo move or something. Or even just the FADC. It's not hard, it's just janky to perform by eye instead of just by feel or rote and I could see that turning off a lot of people.

But please try to understand -- it's not "FADC is Hard", it's "FADC is not fun".

>intentionally missing the point
gg

Saved

>playing fighting games unironically

It's basically a competition to decide who has the most extreme case of autism.

Except the FGC incessantly cries that anyone who says they're not having fun must just be losing, and be this mythical """SCRUB""" who wants to kill the genre by making it "retard proof".

Cred Forums REKT BY PUPPER

SF will never retain a large casual playerbase unless they adopt NRS' model with MKX. Capcom dropped the ball at release with a bare bones game for $60. Also the constant ragequitting online.

>Getting basic facts wrong
>Expecting anyone to take you seriously

That's all video games 2bh

>Like SF4, the slow animations paired with the actual APM feels janky as fuck. I think it's a huge issue for newcomers. Nothing really happens while you're smashing like 900 buttons in a row, but there's also a ton of multi-hitting moves and things that cancel into eachother that make you commit to rather long maneuvers for just one input. The speed of the game is a little inconsistent. It's a little thing, but enough to make the game NOT FUN rather than TOO HARD.
HOW DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH LEARNING THE GAME. You are using terms that are not used in fighting games. Its not APM. Its that your retarded brain doesn't get why button pressed does X. Do you know what strings are, do you know what are true and false strings are? Because you sure do come off as someone that KNOWS FUCKING NOTHING.

Honest question, how do I do 360 motions? I can never do them consistently. Like, the best I can do is jump and spin in mid air and hope I land the move when I touch the ground. Every time I try to do a 360 normally, I jump. How the bloody hell do you do a 360 without jumping? I've been playing fighting games for like, 5 years now and I still can't do a bloody 360.

that's the most adorable thing in the fucking world rn

Its mostly twitch chat, Cred Forums and kappa. FGC just wanna play games.

You're supposed to use buffers.
Throw out a punch and input the 360 during the punch animation

>playing SF4 at a gamer lounge, on a cabinet
>it's a 360 in a stylish plywood case so there's no command lists or instructions or anything anywhere
>did not play fighters growing up, don't know the meme mechanics of the genre, let alone of capcom games specifically
>this would literally have probably been my maybe fifth game of SF ever, and maybe seventh game of any fighting game ever
>up against a gief
>keep getting command thrown
>trying to block, do supposedly invincible moves through it, use my own grabs to try to tech it or something, approach from the air, anything
>get grabbed out of everything grounded, get anti-aired when jumping in or out

>no one tells me until after two or three games of literally just getting walk-up thrown, after I actually vocalize "ok I'm new, I don't understand what's going on here", that you jump to get out of command throws

>ask how to not get anti-aired jumping to avoid throws

>shrugs and says "I dunno. get good"

i dont see why i would ever play any video game like that, with people like that

You only need to do a 270.
632178 or 4123698

Jumps aren't instant, you need to hit the up and punch input during the prejump frames, depends on the game but they're usually around 4-6 frames.

reactionary people exist in literally every community. It just so happens that fighting games do in fact get a lot of people who dont know what they are talking about trying to make arbitrary changes.

Its a shame that people react that way, but fighting games kind of breed that anger out of people a lot. They say things like "why the fuck is this move so cheap!", only to be answered with reasons as to why a move is the way it is, only to be ignored. Its just the way it goes online dude.

>autism

That word doesn't even mean anything on Cred Forums anymore.

You don't have to actually go full circle. You can cheat it. Also youtube moron

Depends on the game. some games only need the up,right,down,left for you to get the 360. Also you can buffer the 360 with a normal. Sort of like in SFV you do gief's knee while that is coming out you do the 360.

Backwards quartercircles

I remember reading this story before, but without jumping and anti-airing part.

>Can't standing 360
Get a load of this scrub.

Now standing 720s on the other hand...

Nobody's going to assume you're new and asking that of someone who doesn't think they're new is very insulting.

>>ask how to not get anti-aired jumping to avoid throws
You back jump throws or neutral jump throws. Also a whiff throw in almost all 2d fighter (cept ST and honda's ochi) has whiff animation. Which makes damn clear that the throw is missed and can be punished.

I've seen Youtube videos for it, and I swear people try to make it as needlessly complicated as possible on purpose.

Which makes an anti air after a whiffed throw IMPOSSIBLE. Unless you are playing an older game with jank mechcanics.

>HOW DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH LEARNING THE GAME.
It doesn't. That's my point. It's not learning the game or that it's too hard that puts people off, it's that the game fucking sucks and isn't immersive or engaging.

inb4
>bbbuh ids a le fighting game it shuldnt ahev a le 60 hour story
that's not what immersive or engaging mean and SF already has an autistic pile of deepest lore anyway it's that the games just manage to not be fun somehow. I've found fighters that I personally enjoy, and that other people I know manage to enjoy, but SF has not been one of those games, and the complaints I see online can usually be traced to "If you're playing SF4, stop doing that and play literally any other fighter because [complaint] is not a thing in [other fighter]."

Still, like bitching about FADCs. Don't play the literally only game with FADCs. If you don't like super tight links, play an animu game with gatling charts. If you hate projectile spam, play, I dunno, that weird anime 3d soft guro game where anime chicks repeatedly break all the bones in eachother's bodies.

The problem with that advice, though, is that retards like you (and the rest of the FGC) incessantly cry and moan whenever anyone disses a capcom game, let alone refuses to play it.

The game lies to you with the icon for a 360. There's no defined starting position for a 360, you just have to hit every cardinal in rapid succession, so 4268 and hitting a button right on the 8 works where the icon implies it should have to be 62482, which is dodgier

it's also stuff like that that makes people hate SF. The command lists are super dishonest. Canceling seismos with explicit 28 inputs instead of chicken wings is for chumps

It's the only way the FGC can feel good about themselves -- making their games look more hardcore than it really is.

WAIT WHAT. I THOUGHT DP WAS
Right Down Diagonal-Down Right Punch
You telling me Ive been adding an input to it.
Also you cant be good at Melee if you cant make simple movements with the control stick.

When you lose in a fighting game it because you suck. The ryu that Daigo plays is the same Ryu a scrub plays.

I would man gaston
he's a shoto

>Right Down Diagonal-Down Right Punch
it used to be but SF4's input interpreter was so lenient that it became what you see in the OP (it took until later for it to be formalized as such though, it kept the weird Z-shaped thing in the menus)

Seriously, fuck that icon. Who thought it was a good idea? Just fucking curve the bottom part of the Z and it would be a lot more clear what it wants.

That is the input you are looking it user.

and for some people the compelling and immersive part of the game is learning the game and nuances while playing different characters and people of different skill levels.

>memes and platitudes
ok but you didnt address anything that anyone actually said??? just more proof that the fgc is fucking retarded and probably mostly illiterate.

it can actually be done as bottom right > down > bottom right + P, which is even easier

>weird anime 3d soft guro game where anime chicks repeatedly break all the bones in eachother's bodies
Is that DoA?

Because its forward, down, downright and not forward,down, downright, right. If you do that with shit timing you will get fireball instead of DP.

What an odd way to come out of the closet

And some people like learning different things. I like learning about design and architecture, but a lot of people find those things boring. A lot of people find SF games boring. Why does it personally offend you and the rest of the FGC so much for people to dislike SF?

Dude if all you are gonna do is generalize a large group of people then what is the point of even talking about it? You are clearly deadset on thinking that way about the FGC for some reason already.

>this fucking thread again
>you dipshits respond seriously to it and keep bumping the thread
no wonder Cred Forums is such a shit board, you're all a bunch of fucking newfag redditor dipshits who don't even know what sage is

Only curve it to down-right then. Just don't make it leave the circle. Because that's stupid and makes no sense when looking at your controller.

Draw a Z that extends past my actual stick? What? For people familiar with SF and dragon punches, it makes some sense, but for newcomers, it's weird.

And even then, it's just ugly and bad design. Why excuse it when it could be better? It's like if Ryu was missing textures. Prattle on all you want about how easy he is to play and fighters are only for the willing and only hardcore dudes allowed blah blah blah -- wouldn't change that Ryu is missing a fuckin' texture.

>You are clearly deadset on thinking that way about the FGC for some reason already.
Because it's fucking true. Prove me wrong.

>it used to be but SF4's input interpreter was so lenient that it became what you see in the OP

I'm teaching someone SF4 right now and he's having a lot of fun so idk what to tell you senpai

You can use GG notation if you want. The pictogram showing the motion is pretty much what you want to do with a stick. because if you do go back to neutral stick placement, you can ruin the timing and miss the move.

About what? The FGC being something? The only thing it is, is a large amount of people who play fighting games. Thats literally it.

>I should push my stick out of battery to draw a Z outside of the ring on my gamepad

thanks street fighter

He means it used to be just a Z with a curved arrow to indicate what to do but it it's OP

It doesn't but the games that prioritize fireball motion over dp motion are extremely rare.

In those games however after you push forward, down, downforward it thinks you input the dragon punch motion but if you don't stop and input forward it thinks "Oh the last three inputs were the fireball motion so fireball it is."

And I thought street fighter was arbitrary

The FGC is shit. Complete shit.

That stick is wrapped in plastic film. They have been preparing a great deal for this "epic" moment to be captured on camera for the whole internet to see.

it's easy with a 4 directional stick, just jam that shit in the corner
i sometimes do z-inputs instead of quarter circles
shit thread, saged

Im sorry you got too many mean messages on netplay user.

IS THIS NOT WHAT YOU WANTED

IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED

Can't say any motion is that bad for me but I hate this kind of input string. First you need to spend time hammering those inputs into your brain so you remember all 10 or so and then you need to learn to time them right. It's not hard per se but just time consuming which is annoying. And then it's easy to forget how to do it after you spend time playing other characters/games.

if you're using dpad you should try fingering differently

literally what is the point of this string

Well it feels pretty good when you pull it off but I'd still take automatic animation after initial input any day.

This is the reason why I don't like playing games like Tekken. Everything is a fucking predetermined string you need to memorize instead of there being global rules (with some exceptions usually) when it comes to how you can string attacks together and letting you make your own combos.

why do people always cry about the shit they can't do in fighting games instead of going to plan b and basing their strategy around the stuff that they CAN do

simply learning how to block and punish things will take you a long way

What about something like P4A that only has two normals, but one of them automatically does a full string of what would normally be something like short > strong > sweep in any other game?

before you answer, remember that P4A is widely considered to be kusoge for having this "autocombo" feature

It fucking will too. You fagootz and ,"muh input accuracies!!!"

>unless they adopt NRS' model with MKX

Give the middle finger to PC players for a solid year and a half? I don't see how that'll help.

>UT4 or Reflex

Both are garbage, the former especially.

Quake always and forever.

>every character has insane mobility
this is the main reason why smash is more accessible to people.

it's all about the beginners. when a beginner picks up a fg, he'll have limitations in how he walks, dashes and jumps. in smash you have freedom in all those aspects.
the key difference this makes is that when a beginner gets bodied in smash, he gets to move around and do stuff. in most fgs you'll die without really playing the game at all because you don't have any space to breathe in.

No its not. Anybody who hates autocombos in P4A hasnt actually played the game that much or are so ass that they get blown up by them all day.

They are a complete non issue outside of building meter.

>in most fgs you'll die without really playing the game at all because you don't have any space to breathe in.
You got to admit that is pretty shit. Having double the hp would really help increase the chances of a comeback and learning the opponent's attacks so you can counter them before you die.

user, really? Take the time to choose one character and on top of that one match up. To its fullest extent.

delete this thread

>months of practice
I taught a 9 year old to play Akuma, including the raging demon in a day. You just suck.

>That's really what it comes down to. Fighters just aren't fun on some level.
exactly, and it's the beginner level. of course if you are interested and want to learn anyway, nothing will stop you from playing.
but if you're just some dude who's trying out the genre, it's unlikely that you'll get convinced to stay if you get bodied by an competent player because of how hopeless it feels.

again, smash is the counter example here. it can be a spectacle even when you get bodied. in fgs losing feels very drab, especially when you don't know what's going on and die while unable to leave the corner.

i like FGs btw, but this is one of the big issues why FGs aren't growing. they are very, very beginner unfriendly. by that i mean they outright are designed to crush beginners.

I thought a total fucking gone home noob how to star rave in 30 minutes. People are retarded.

>This thread
As if you don't need any more proof that Cred Forums is a bunch of shitters bad at videogames.

I can't fuckind do Guiles Flash kick cancle into super and im ultra gold in SFV
It's fucking retarded bullshit in the first place because you don't actually do the motion for each indevidual move, you have to some new motion to make it work.
Fucking stupid

I always assumed SC has piss easy execution after i mained and did pretty well with the greeks.

But jesus some character do have fucked up shit and basically rely on just frame moves.

Downback > Up forward >Back (any of them) > Forward (any of them)

You CAN do the proper 1(7/8/9)4646 input but there's no reason to.

>Netherrealm drones
It would be great if you could play your shit game as much as you shill it here.

I LIKE SKULLGIRLS
Only fighter I enjoy doing quarter circles and dragon punchs. Otherwise, down+forward+button is a better and more responsive system

It's really just Ivy who famously has that one really complicated command grab.
Though for 85 damage on frame perfect input, it should be difficult.

720's. I can deal with 360's, pretzels are annoying, and that SF4 vertical charge ultra shit was dumb before I knew how to shortcut it, but I can't fucking 720 fast enough to not jump. Maybe if I had a stick I could do it. The issue is I have fucked up fine motor coordination. On a good day my fingers are slower than most people's, on a bad day it's like full-blown Parkinson's. It's not a huge issue in general, but what it usually translates to with normal fighters is I have trouble with any motion where you get fucked for hitting a diagonal instead of a cardinal and vice-versa. So charge characters and grapplers, mostly. For other games, it's usually mouse or analog stick problems. I can play Rivals of Aether because it has button remapping, right stick-only smashes, toggleable tap jump, but not Melee because my hands are too retarded to quickly do a tilt without jumping, smashing, or fastfalling. IRL it's mostly a bitch for writing and balancing small, heavy objects.

Its not really just ivy.
Yoshimitsu has that one just frame move he absolutely needs. Manjin whatever fist.
Viola and alpha patroklos have really hard execution too. Cervantes needs to be able to always do the just input for Geo da ray because the regular version is garbage.

There is more stuff, but thats the characters i played first hand.

What's a good fighter for a beginner, someone who has never really played any before?

Cheap
Access to Local Community
Healthy Online

pick a game that has two of the three

Dead or Alive 5: LR for 3D, maybe SFV for 2D.

You should watch that video where Gootecks and Miek Russ show Xavier Woods how to play SF, they go through inputs and stuff quite well

Have any in mind that fill these requirements?

SFV?
Might check it out, hows the PC port?

Oh it's fine, it just installs rootkits on your PC.

Is that why there is a Mostly Negative rating on steam?
Dont even know what the fuck that means

I'd rather you not start shit but I have to admit last month's Quake Con was the hypest shit

On the topic of fighting games, how is this?
Thinking of getting it.
I've read all of Jojo btw

With the Urien update, Capcom tried to add an anti-cheat measure that gave them high level access to your OS, in ways that could easily be exploited by a hacker who finds an entrypoint in SFV's code. If it had stayed, anyone who found such an exploit could brick your computer.

Thankfully it was removed in less than 24 hours, but the damage to Capcom's reputation was already done at that point.

It's great for fanservice, not so great in terms of actual fighting mechanics. Play Heritage for the Future instead.

Good for fanservice, not really that much of a fighting game. Really unbalanced, but if you like JoJo then you'll love the game.

It was mostly negative long before the rootkit/drm fiasco.

Last week capcom uploaded an SF5 patch that actually installed a drm on your Computer that needed Kernel access.

For dummies: They installed some on your operating system that gave them elevated rights, so they could theoretically do anything e.g spying on you

But the kicker is, even if you are not paranoid that capcom would spy on you, this programm would basically allow anyone that knows you have it allow to access your system.

Its like when a mechanic leaves your front door wide open 24/7 so he has easier access to your boiler room.

If we talk about the game itself it is rated negatively because it really is an unfinished game, the UI is still a placeholder 5 month after release. It lacks basic features a fighting game should have that are genre standard.
The netcode is terrible.

Overall its just an unfinished product and you feel that.
The gameplay is decent, some people hate it some like it.

I would only recommend sf5 if you plan to play locally a lot.
I cant recommend the terrible online experience that game gives you.

I can tell it's lame cause it has fucking Jotaro on the cover and not BASED Johnathan.

wtf

The rootkit has been rolled back but the fact that it happened in the first place is fucking astonishing.
It's mostly negative because on release the game didn't have much content. There's more content now.
Right now future plans for content isn't clear, the only definite is more characters. The release schedule for characters was pretty wacky too - Originally it was going to be a character per month, but then they started releasing them (or attempted to) every month, stating that next year they would be bi-monthly.

Good if you like fan service, have a friend to play it with or both. Not much else. The combos are limited, rounds take a while, gameplay in general is quite slow.
Who /diavolo/ here?

Can you elaborate please?
>Jonathan
Shit taste senpai

...

So is the base game good, or is it as garbage as people are making it out to be in the steam reviews?
Also, are they're any other popular fighters on PC?

I feel like i could play that out just mashing the buttons and hoping for the best

HftF also had Jotaro on the cover. You gonna call that a bad game too?

>dragon punch motion
>taking months of practice
I know its a b8 thread but lmao

Great Jojo game, merely okay fighting game. It has a lot of balance issues (there's really no point not choosing a stand user most of the time, since most of them have some kind of ORA ORA attack that fucks over a lot of non-stand users, and naturally Johnny is kinda useless off his horse since he's a fucking cripple).

Still, it's fun if you're a Jojo fan. Just don't expect deep or balanced gameplay.

Guilty Gear Xrd Sign/Revelator and Skull Girls. They have pretty good tutorials (which is fucking amazing for fighting games, since a lot of them expect you to already roughly know how to play and just have a training mode) and that could be pretty helpful for a newcomer to the genre. There are also several "my first fighter" type games like Dengeki Bunko Fighting Climax. Everyone has very similar commands that do very similar things, and there's nothing too hard to pull off in that game. Like, the most complicated moves are probably doing 180 inputs, which honestly isn't that hard. Left down right, or right down left. Just roll your thumb across the D pad or whatever control method you prefer.

As i said, i think the online experience is garbage tier.

The base game is decent if you get to play locally often.

Well, is it?

The base game is just okay. If you've ever played a SF game before, everything will feel very stripped-back. Interestingly, the praise and hate both seem to center around that same concept. People who like it will tell you that it's all fundamentals, people who hate it will tell you it's jump in and grab: the game.

He's right you know if you cant get a dp words can't describe how much a faggot you are and you shouldn't play fighting games

>online is garbage
So no point then..
I dont have any friends

Zoom Punch ALL DAY

Charge motions like the flash kick super

>Stand users are generally better
At least it makes some sense in the fact that a non-stand user doesn't stand a chance against a stand user in the manga/anime

>require a bit of grinding
Firstly they require a lot of grinding, secondly grinding is always a masochistic endeavor.

Killer Instinct, for this reason
>Guilty Gear Xrd Sign/Revelator and Skull Girls. They have pretty good tutorials (which is fucking amazing for fighting games, since a lot of them expect you to already roughly know how to play and just have a training mode)

KI's tutorial is often overlooked by the rest of the fighting game community, but it is hands-down the best in the business. Even if you don't stick with the game, the majority of what you learn can be applied to almost any other fighting game.

Skullgirls is $15, on sale a lot, and has coasted for years relying on GGPO, so it's a good starting place. Depending on where you live your local community might play it as well. Mind you, it's a fast game so be aware of that.

>spend a couple hours grinding execution, not so you can pull off a hard multi hit combo, or timing on a move, but just to be able to do a simple attack

user pls.

I never heard about its tutorial, honestly. It really must be overlooked then. Honestly, I'd play KI but I'd need to upgrade to Windows 10 to do that. I don't really want to risk losing compatibility of my current games all for the sake of one game, yanno?

>Killer Instinct
The only thing that has held me back is the combo breaker/lockout system. Should i give it another go?

Its because people would rather just play the better game.

I upgraded to windows 10 and so far there has been no compatibility issues with any game i've played so far.

Unless you're playing games from the mid-90s or earlier, I don't think compatibility is an issue on Windows 10. Not having done much research, I can tell you the games I've tried (Quake, Quake 2, Doom) all work fine.

KI's combo system takes some getting used to. I would encourage you to give it another try. Practice practice practice.

Fightcade games, SFIV, KOF XIV, GG Xrd, KI
As far as 2d goes. SFV is gonna teach you awful habits and doesn't even have a good tutorial, avoid it.

I agree about KI's tutorial 100%, it even teaches you more advanced concepts like low profiling, tick throws and frametraps.

But Smash 4 does have unintended advance techniques if you seriously main Peach, Little Mac or Shulk and even Ryu if you consider the inputs to be AT's.

He means active stand users, Mista has some dumb Sex Pistols loops he can set up but it requires insane work, I think Old Joseph and Lisa Lisa where considered the only high tier non active stand users.

I really like the way the game played with a 2d and 3d environment, it'd be nice to see another attempt at it, maybe this time running at FUCKING 60 FPS.

>PC port of ASB never

>I really like the way the game played with a 2d and 3d environment, it'd be nice to see another attempt at it, maybe this time running at FUCKING 60 FPS.

This is why Eyes of Heaven bothered me so much. They took a potentially good thing (hybrid fighting game at 60FPS) and turned it into a god damn brawler.

Guys...wait a minute...I just realized something...

>Shoryuken
>Sho ryu ken
>Ryu
>Ken

Do you think they did this on purpose??

Holy shit

I don't take that issue with EoH, it's just reusing the assets, as far as I 'm aware it sold worse than ASB so maybe we'll see an ASB2 sometime.
I actually did practice ASB a little, had a decent Gappy and Wham but the framedrops when you fought a fucking Avdol and on some stages in general just turned me off it completely eventually.
Chaka for asb2

Man, 2xHCB took me ages to get consistent with. Fuck that motion.
Pretzel is kind of stupid, but you can churn for it if you're really lazy.

>mixing up shoto with shota
fuck, I'm dying

If you lose, you wonder how to win. In fighting games, there's no terribly clear path to winning, and people tend to drop as a result.

>walk forward - get grabbed
>jump - get knocked out of the air
>stand - get swept
>crouch - get hit overhead
>attack - get stuffed/counter hit and then comboed for massive damage
>on wakeup - have fun blocking this 50/50
>in corner - you're not getting out
>actually on the offensive - ends in like 3 hits because you can't capitalize on any opportunity you get
That's what it's like when you're new going against someone who's been playing. You're not merely going to lose, you're going to get bodied.

admittedly, this
I actually do like these sort of moves in concept, but fuck me, I just want to do Athena's Psychic 9 without dropping it 90% of the time (there's a huge disconnect between when you need to press and when the animation changes, too).

f,df,d,db,b,ub,u,(button)
pretty sure most games don't read the diagonals, so you can be a tad sloppy, as long as you do f,d,b,u in that order

but doing a standing 360 is always going to be tricky and you're going to need to buffer it usually (or do it fast enough that you haven't jumped yet, you usually don't immediately jump on pressing up)

probably

>Do people even play AC:I deathmatch

You mean Assassin's Creed? Yeah: Brotherhood, Revelations, 3, and 4: Black Flag had them. They were pretty fun.

Listen this may sound crazy, but

Lets break it apart.
Shoryuken.

Ryu = Ryu
Ken = Ken

But you may ask yourself who is sho?

What if..
SHO = SEAN

Is mozzart still alive?

>hadouken
>ha douk en
could dick kickem be still alive?

Akira is one of those characters where you really need an arcade stick or at least buttons to really get down. I had to train my fingers for awhile to get it consistently and find using my middle finger to flick the G worked best

afaik diagonals are never required for 360s unless there's some anime kusoge which does.

This so mucj.
If OP is complaining about DP, just you wait when you try to do IAD combos

FUCK YEAR

>Smash games have comically small movesets compared to most fighting games.

30 or so attacks for most fighters isnt that bad is it? the movement and tech game in smash puts every other fightan to shame anyway

You can. But against pros? Probably not. Though I think the point of that image is the "wut" of the tutorial/instructions showing how the move can be done in either direction from starting with a QCF/QCB and then reversing the input per which direction you went.

>But against pros? Probably not
that's 90% of the reason why i don't play against pros.

Any 360 ones, I can do half circles, quarter circles, shoryukens just fine but full circles fuck my shit up

AHAHAHAHAHA
HIS FIGHTER HAS A FUCKING BLOCK BUTTON

>not having the king of games as your main
Plebs. All of you 5 or RIOT
Bridget, Donalduru,and Yaranaika~? with the FUCK YOU Groove. I don't even care if it's OP bullshit.

Hey now, Soul Calibur is good.

>2d with a block button
LMAO

Damn Yugi, you couldn't have been further from that 5.

Now check this 7.

There's a shortcut for that situation. Downright, down, downright

FUCK.
I'm betting it all on this next draw. COME ON 9

>9 in post
>0 in image
>gets a 0

I don't know how to feel

Only in new games.
>Trying to do cl.c xx df.c xx 2xhcb C

ahahahaha just fucking kill me senpai

I'm never going to be able to play Daimon I swear.

it's pretty easy if you practice a little
also the way they display the inputs obfuscates the actual movement

KYS super is dope

youtube.com/watch?v=PD9wnTk0srw

youtube.com/watch?v=nlOur3o5LSs&t=2s

This just isn't my day.

You feel wrong then.

What bothered me about EoH is that it just wasn't fun to play. It really isn't. The entire premise turned out to be flawed. It's a 2v2 system, but it's really 1v1 but both sides have an AI partner. How well you do can very well depend on how retarded your AI partner is. Not only that, your AI partner's actions can negatively affect you too.

Imagine this. You have DIO as your partner. He stops time. You are stopped in time too. For 9 seconds you have lost complete control over your character and you can only watch on in despair as the AI then makes Dio run in the vauge direction of the nearest enemy, try to punch them and somehow miss.

It's retarded.

Story mode is a slog too, since it reuses the same excuse for fights over and over and sometimes comes up with the most cancerous combinations to throw at you. Very early on, you have to fight Kakyoin and N'Doul at the same time while using Jotaro partnered with Old Joseph. All of your guys are primarily melee based and all of your opponents are primarily ranged based. Kakyoin will constantly try to run away from you and then pepper you with Emerald Splash. Meanwhile, since N'Doul is blind what he does is run away, hide, and then send his stand after you. His stand takes no damage. If you want to beat it, you have to beat N'Doul. Problem is that the fucker will ALWAYS run if you come close to him and Kakyoin is constantly slamming Emerald Splashes into your back, giving N'Doul enough time to escape. Of course, if you try to beat Kakyoin first then N'Doul's invicible stand will join the fight and you're fucked.

You can't rely on the AI, it's an idiot.

You can't even stop time, since in story mode you have to unlock skills by leveling up and earning skill points.

Seriously, the whole thing is a mess. Apparently the online is complete trash too, but I never played it because I was worried I was going to run into "meta builds" that were all just super cancerous broken shit.

Also weird bugs like the AI just locking up and everyone becoming unresponsive. I've also had characters run up to me like they wanted to attack me, but they didn't. Also, weird things like looping sound effects.

Could Mozart be still alive?

Pretty garbage honestly. I mean it's JoJo so it's pretty cool regardless, but it's a terrible fighting game.

I can't do Geese's Raging Storm.

>"It's a half circle with bookmarks"

When you think of raging storm like that it really helps you execute it.

Charge moves. I never get the timing for charge moves right, I always end up "over" charging them just to make sure I do it right but then I'm blatantly telegraphing my next move.

I'm also a bit bad with doing inputs in the air. I'm getting better though so it's fine, I guess.

My absolute worst is 360 inputs. Fucking Arcana Heart though, it has 1080 inputs. That's three 360s. And that's fucking IMPOSSIBLE

Same, I play on a keyboard. It's a thousand times better for input characters, and probably would be for charge characters too but I just can't make myself put any time in them so I can never execute down charge into up + action moves.

It's okay though because I don't really like charge characters in the first place.

t. Smash autist

Yatagarasu has an 1800 input

>this is what smashfags unironically believe

Churning butter to the max

Speaking of YachtTeaGarageSoon, what did people think of that fight commentary feature? I thought it was amusing at first but it got really stale really fast.

It was inconsistent at best.
I mean it was meant to tell you if your opponent is mashing or something but all it does is make japanese men yell at your game incoherently.

It is funny to put the James Chen one on though.

wow. well unless you're mentally retarded, you could try trying.

It got annoying really fucking quick. Commentary is for the spectators, not the players.

>literally have to study frame input data for melee before learning a character

Holy shit this is cancer. How the fuck is smash growing with this cancerous new player experience?

>months of practice
Nice b8 m8 I appreci8.
I did shoryukens when I was 8.

I really wanted EoH to be good. I know everyone hated it because they wanted an ASB2 but the way they did arenas in EoH looked like it had potential to be good.

Ease of entry.

It's not that hard to just pick up and start playing, then learn about what moves come out quickest later on. You'll eventually just kinda know what you can and cannot punish.

A lot of it is just following the stories and drama of the top players while playing the game casually.

>mfw online shitters say fighting games are too hard because of special move inputs
I bet you retards didn't even win 10% of your games in Rising Thunder.

Thats why rising thunder flopped hard.

You cant make this genre appeal to casuals if you dont completely rework it at the core.
Rising thunder still had a high knowledge barrier that casual players would never break into.

You can bet that, if they actually make that Riot Fighting game, it will be an arena brawler or something.

Also it wont be a 1on1 game, casuals cant handle that, it will be teambased and have some randomness.

>Thats why rising thunder flopped hard.
RT didn't flop, actually they got bought, and soon you'll see LoL fighting game with the same exact recipe.

Capcucks days are counted, 2D fighters as we know them today aren't going to last.

Did you even read the rest of my post?

Also they mainly got bought for their other game stonehearth.

>and soon you'll see LoL fighting game with the same exact recipe.

No they wont, the casual as fuck LoL playerbase cant handle even a rising thunder clone.

It will be simplified even further and forever ruin the genre since it will attract loads of casual shitters.

I agree that sf5 is garbage, but that doesnt mean i have hope for anythingthat is related to league of legends or Riot games.

>and soon you'll see LoL fighting game with the same exact recipe.

I'd actually love that. But considering half the cast has weapons, it'll probably be a SC ripoff instead of a SF4 one.

You can make a 2D fighter with weapons work really well, see Blazblue and Guilty Gear

>sc ripoff

But RT was 2D not 3D.
Characters having weapons doesnt make it SC like in any way.

Examples?

PS:
That shit will definitely be teambased.
All the successfull "Esports" companies already noticed, that regular people (normies reeee) prefer teamgames.

This has two reasons, normies always game in social groups, they dont want to sit there alone and practice things. Gaming is a social thing for most people, they NEED the social aspect in it or the game isnt interesting for them.
So traditional fighting games arent popular with them.

Second, 1on1 based competition scares most people off, 1on1 based competitive games tend to have way smaller audiences than teambased "competitive" games. The exception here is starcraft, but even that cant compare to LoL, Dota or CS:GO.

And since Tencent/Riot definitely want to maximize their profits and make that shit popular you can bet your ass it would be teambased.

>No they wont, the casual as fuck LoL playerbase cant handle even a rising thunder clone.
The "casual" as you call them you elitist prick, don't like 2D fighters overall because they play like shit.

Games like Tekken or SC have no problem whatsoever.

>Smash games have comically small movesets compared to most fighting games.
Smash 4 has a minimum of 24 basic attacks all stemming from a single button and a single direction (or no direction.) If you add "Final Smash" you also gain another attack, several new attacks or a complete alteration of the character.
Smash 4, when you consider for characters with varying multi-hits moves and custom specials, can have as many as 35 different attacks. Some characters like Megaman with WILDLY different attacks, some characters like Shulk that WILDLY change their attacks' properties.
Smash 4, when you include the usage of items, becomes capable of dozens of more varied forms of attack with the item in possession and not simply "throw it", "projectile" or "swing the item." Properties of attacks matter.

This does not include movement options, standing still, crouching, crawling (some), variable walk speeds, sprinting (multidirectional and timed), running, short hop, jump, double (or more) jump, fast falling, platform usage (landing, passing), teching, techrolling, ledge snap, spot dodging, air-dodging, rolling, wall-jumping and even wall clinging...all with different variations of momentum or speed depending on the character (which numbers 58). Even the positioning makes a difference with moves having "sour" and "sweet" spots. Melee has even more movement options with more exaggerated momentum and a fair amount more techniques that allow sliding, instantaneous stop-and-go, angular air-dodging, move cancellations etc.

Many want to claim Smash Brother is just "A or B + a direction" and they're not completely wrong. But to claim there isn't complexity there naive.

I meant nobody has elaborate hard to remember inputs like calamity symphony,
It's usually just straight forward simple inputs that simply require frame perfect timing.

I never got the chance to play Rising Thunder. Did it have a good tutorial for teaching fundamentals?

If not, I'd say that's the real problem. Rising Thunder's whole goal, as I understood it, was the remove the execution barrier from the equation, but keep every aspect of the traditional mental game. It's not that hard to teach, so I don't see the need to do like you said and make it some kind of arena/team fighting fuckup.

Congrats

twitter.com/ScrubQuotesX/status/781523953495924738

>Games like Tekken or SC have no problem whatsoever.

Sorry to disapoint you, those are basically dead online.

Yeah thats true, but i would never be willing to practice until i can get some of those timings 100% correctly. I actually tried to get the input for yoshis manji fist down and that shit is super hard.

So i will main characters like natsu or the greeks forever, which are good, consistent and low execution.

>literally who
ok

...

It didnt have any tutorial, it was barebones Player vs Player.

But the game was in alpha, so we will never know how a finished RT would have looked like.

>he doesn't know about ScrubQuotes

I don't give a shit about twitter

Melee is literally impossible to play correctly without years of practice.

>toon

>Games like Tekken or SC have no problem whatsoever.

What are you talking about? Tekken has been dead in the US for years because casuals can't play it. SF and MK have a way larger casual audience.

720s
360s
SRK xx QCF2

So basically I'm never playing Zangief or Ryu.

Fuck off back to plebbit.

>Games like Tekken or SC have no problem whatsoever.

They are just as demanding and complex
And SC has quarter circle and shoryuken motions too on almost every character.

Its like you never played those games besides mashing.

The competitive scene in tekken is super small because no one is willing to get into it.
That shit has a huuuuuuge knowledge and execution barrier.

If casuals hate 2D, they hate 3D aswell.

>Rising Thunder's whole goal, as I understood it, was the remove the execution barrier from the equation, but keep every aspect of the traditional mental game.

In practice, it didn't really do that. You still had to memorise combos and input timings, the only difference was that specials were inputted with single buttons. For anyone who actually plays 2D fighters, that shit makes no difference because DPs and fireball motions are utterly ingrained in our heads by now.

There are some retardedly annoying things to learn especially with sticks on controllers but once you get it down you can do it everytime

pic related for a "fighting" game example

You can have shitload of mechanics but they are all shit if they are easy as fuck to apply in a practical scenario.

Lemme just grind out those just frame attacks, yep, no artificial difficulty here

Yeah smash has some of those inputs too.

I guess the only difference is that you can play smash on a low skill level with just the base inputs.

If you try that in SF and you dont even have access to 3/4 of your characters moveset, you get easily frustrated as a new player.

Thats the least offensive/baity explanation i could muster.

Smash has a smoother learning curve from retard to mediocre player.

SF puts a steep hill right in front of your face.

In the end the peak of both learning curves is quite similar though.

Smash is easy to learn hard to master.
SF is hard to learn hard to master.

>mechanics are all shit if they are easy as fuck to apply in a practical scenario.
>mechanics are only good if they're nearly impossible to do
>taking one step forward should be a string of 720 rotations and a combination of fierce kicks

Honestly some of those just frame moves in SC5 are harder than any 1-frame links SF4 has.
In SF4 you could atleast plink and get them consistently.

Capcom made a game in SF5 where you can literally mash out combos and it's still not easy enough for you trash.

Why did they even bother?

SC just frames can go fuck themselves, honestly. SC is the only fighter I play on a pad and every time I play Setsuka/APat/Yoshi, I end up grinding all the skin off my thumb.

You just do a hadouken while walking.

>SF is hard to learn hard to master.

I'm really afraid the the game Riot makes is gonna be a Smash clone.

360s(or more)+anything
Feels good though, Top 8ing tournaments never having to use my level 3 or 5.
Keyboard sucks but I can't afford a fight stick and pad just sucks slightly more

Whats wrong with that statement?

I played several competitive games on a decent level including sf4.

And the learning curve at the beginning is quite step.
I would call that hard to learn / hard to get into.

Its normal for beginners to loose their first 100 games or so.

See
It definitely wont be a classic 1on1 2D game, bet your ass on it.

Impossible to do is an entirely different thing, I've always been against overly complex inputs like AC+R I-no's for example where you have to do multiple 1-3f inputs while buffering half circle motions. You literally listed a bunch of movement options and think they make the game deep or some shit when executing them is nothing difficult and adds no depth. It's like saying dashing forward or airdash is some amazingly deep and complex mechanic in anime fighters.

Smashfags are always the same, you list a bunch of normal inputs that are taken for granted in every single fighting game and call them some amazingly deep mechanic. It's fucking hilarious if anything.

That's a cute dog

The basics of SF are not hard to learn.
Getting your ass kicked 100 times online only shows the skill level of the average online player, and says nothing about how hard it is to start learning the game.

Dunno about 5 but 4 had an insanely high barrier of entry if you wanted to get decent at the game.

double quarter circle forward when I'm on the left side. It's a fucking pain. I can do it if I concentrate, but I can't to it fast. Doing a Super on reaction on this side is so hard for me.

>Getting your ass kicked 100 times online only shows the skill level of the average online player, and says nothing about how hard it is to start learning the game.

Okay you are correct with that, that was a faulty comparison on my side.

But i would still claim that the bare basics are harder to get down in SF than they are in e.g Smash.

But that depends on what we define as basics.

It really didn't.
The game only started getting hard once you begin linking and adding in FADC.
You can get quite a ways with nothing but fundamentals in IV.

Damn this kinda pisses me off. Why do most people hate 1v1 so much?

Depends on the character. Some characters literally had 1-frame links in their BnB combos.

And i would say being able to do your BnB is a basic.

because you have to blame yourself when you lose

Understanding "fundamentals" is one of the most difficult things in fighting games and that alone requires you to be an experienced fighting game player. Not only that but punishing moves requires you to know their frame data, 4 has shitload of moves that look unsafe/safe to a naked eye while they aren't.

I personally think its mostly the social aspect.
They have their group of buddies and they want to chill with them in teamspeak and play something on the side.

Also if you dont play the games your buddies play you easily fall out of the social group.
Its just human group dynamics.

>Reflex
>literally cpma for slowfag tf2 players

Git gud fgt, may as well play PQL

>falling this hard for bait
>falling so hard for it that you got it posted on scrubquotes
>all these normies on twitter falling for obvious bait

sure, congrats

>just kinda know what you can and cannot punish
That's true for every game.

Depends what you define as 'decent'
If you're talking about not going 0-2 at a tournament then yes, there is a lot of practice needed, but it's the same with smash bros. those crazy autists are doing shit I can't even comprehend.
But if you just want to feel like you know what your doing and aren't flailing like an idiot, then it takes practically no time at all if you actually sit down in training mode and think about what you're doing.
>Understanding "fundamentals" is one of the most difficult things in fighting games
Block, don't jump randomly and anti-air when they jump randomly, don't do stuff that's unsafe, try and poke from max-range and whiff-punish, get them to the corner. This isn't mind-blowing stuff.

I didn't submit it, just noticed that he posted it.

>4 has shitload of moves that look unsafe/safe to a naked eye while they aren't

Honestly, I'd say 4 is a lot better than 5 in the 'if it looks unsafe, it's unsafe' department. That's one of the things that annoys me about 5.

>quakecon

Fangay garbage marketing circus

>"a-am I cool now guys?"

It actually is mind blowing stuff to beginners. You need to know which moves are good at anti airing and again know what to punish and what is unsafe and what isn't. It's exactly why fighting games are difficult to get in, there isn't frame data present in almost any game in the game itself so you're left off with trying shit out. No one who is new to fighting games will think about that shit, their initial thought is to how get hits on your opponent.

I didn't want to bother but, after seeing so many retards answering, I feel like I should answer.

The point I'm making dumb fucks, is that games like Tekken or SC have no problem selling among the casual crowds, these games appeal to them.
Tekken sells more than SF can dream of.

The online is dead? Who would have thought! how many years passed since?

Also, either you talk about the competitive community or the casuals, they aren't the same.

>go to an FGC meeting for the first time
>talking to a guy about how I used to play SoulCal 2 on arcade Cabinet
>"oh yeah user? me too! I havent played in a while, who was your main?"
>I have played in like a decade
>I played Yoshimitsu
>Have vague memories of doing sword hoping and doing the funny suicide thing
>"Oh so you can do BLAHBLAHBLAHBALH metronome? lets go play!"
>Yeah sure whatever
>sit down with him at console
>He also picks Yoshi
>proceeds to become a helicopter and float around the stage occasionally dive bombing me
> hes raughing at me in real life
>"haha good game user!" *extends hand*
>mfw
Im really glad I put no real time into this franchise

>Playing shitty obscure fighting games without being able to do a shoryuken
Your fault

But the complexity of those games is just as deep.
So that cant be what turns the casuals off.

SC for example has the same circle inputs that you claim people are hating.

Does anyone have a pic similar to OPs for a high side b?

So, you can't punish something he does repeatedly, act like a bitch to someone saying "good game" offering you a handshake and still complain here? Damn.

>months of practice
Must be my imagination then, i thought i did it first try at age 9.
Maybe you are just a casul shitter. Theres tons of mobile games suited for you.

That guy sounded nice.

>guy has been nothing but nice to me, but i now hate him and that game series because i was not competent enough to win!

That's why you have to grind losses. I like that SFV has a way to say "[character] player seeking [character]" in battle lounge, you can ask for other people maining your character and copy what they do. So when you jump and they cr.hp you, you can copy that for your own game, or you see them throwing out heavy kicks in neutral and think "hey that might be a useful trick"

Who gives a fuck?
It's about making casual buy the game, not who plays.

It's not shitters' fault the genre is so stubborn that it breaks the second you add more than two players. Ignore the Nintendo branding and Smash is one of the most popular fighting games, with good reason: You can get a group of buddies together and beat the crap out of each other, all at once.

StarCraft II cratered because the game took a genre of large-scale team modes and custom games and turned it into the RTS equivalent of Final Destination. Fighting games have the same problem. The sooner they stop pretending to be "MANLY GAEMS FOR MANLY GAEMERS", the better.

I can do standing 720's but I can't do reverse fireball half circle forward supers reliably. What's wrong with me?

>The basics of SF are not hard to learn.
they're not, but they are compared to games like smash.

smash is very intuitive, you can adjust your walk speed and dashes with the speed you use the stick, you can steer your jumps and you don't use a directional input for blocking.

in sf your movement in general is very clunky. and you have to understand it well in order to begin understanding footsies.
also obviously specials are harder as well in comparison.
so yeah i'd say sf basics are harder to pick up.

>The point I'm making dumb fucks, is that games like Tekken or SC have no problem selling among the casual crowds, these games appeal to them.

And I'm telling you that Tekken, in particular, has an even bigger problem with casual user retention than SF due to its absurd knowledge requirements and execution barriers.

Tekken hasn't been a 'casual' series since they removed all of the whacky side-modes years ago.

>Smashfags are always the same, you list a bunch of normal inputs that are taken for granted in every single fighting game and call them some amazingly deep mechanic. It's fucking hilarious if anything.
Performing a single attack is nothing about being an "amazingly deep mechanic." Simplicity in performance allows complexity in application. You can espouse the virtues of limitless combo strings because of precise, difficult "moves", but when you have well over 60 different options to approach, defend, attack and move across diverse stages with verticality, interact-ability or simple flat environments...all while using any of 58 characters with clones, similar, different or extremely bizarre properties (sometimes with 1-7 other players on the screen)...you're a fool to believe it's "fucking hilarious" for complexity from simplicity isn't possible.

It doesn't even begin to cover the idea of how the winner of fights are determined in smash, from Stocks, to KOs, to stamina, coins, etc. which can alter the way you fight a match.

Tangentially,
>You literally listed a bunch of movement options and think they make the game deep or some shit
you're admitting you find games like platformers, where movement is the core to the game, are never capable of any complex gameplay. Like Super Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game at all, it's just a platformer, and even then it's still a shallow experience with no depth or skill variation.

I remember first looking at the Z and interpreting it as Back, Forward, Down Back, Down Forward - like literally drawing a Z. Luckily my roommate was fairly versed in fighters but still, shitty notation.

I like the idea of a 3 character system, but has the better roster

get ready to REV UP THOSE FRYERS

Then why wasn't GG Isuka popular? Protip Smash is not a fighting game

>Don't enjoy FPS
>Don't enjoy RTS
>Don't enjoy MOBAs
>Don't enjoy Smash much
Fighting games are all I have and I hate it. i hope they don't ever die.

Listen to me you little faggot

I love Smash Bros. but cunts like you shit up the community and make everyone hate us.

YOU NEED TO STOP THIS BULLSHIT

It's really not difficult to do a Shuryuken unless you are actually crippled or something.

Now, again, I love Smash Bros., but for fuck's sake, PLEASE stop being a pretentious little worthless piece of human filth and treating those who enjoy a different game like shit, you fucking cunt.

Because flying_anime_girls.jpg is not popular. "Nintendo branding" plus "team modes" sweeten the deal.

Also, Smash is a fighting game by definition. Fighting games are hand-to-hand/close-range/weapons combat games where the participants are portrayed as narrative equals, with all action typically focused on the fighting itself. Smash is a fighting game.

>It doesn't even begin to cover the idea of how the winner of fights are determined in smash, from Stocks, to KOs, to stamina, coins, etc. which can alter the way you fight a match.

Not that guy, but we both know nobody gives a shit about anything but stocks unless they're faffing about. The core of Smash is its combat, not its auxiliary modes.

what you don't understand is that smash has more movement options and that's what creates depth.
inputting commands is never what gives a game its depth.

normal fighters don't require you to hold an analog stick in a tiny rectangular area near the middle to play correctly

I know, but for the sake of an argument, I don't want to see someone dismiss the possibility of a "life bar" in a Smash.

ah yes, it only started getting hard once you wanted to actually do basic bnbs instead of having e.g. juri cr.lk lead to like 0 damage because you can't do cr.lk cr.lk xx pinwheel unless you link the last cr.lk

Dude just fuck off.

Stop embarrassing yourself already you goddamned cringeworthy autist.

>2D fags having a hard time remembering button strings
Not surprised, you subhumans.

>People continue playing MOBAs and CoD and Dark Souls and such because they're fun
MOBA players can blame their own team even when they act like a retard and die and are the worst on their own team
CoD players can rely on the fact that the other players can be distracted with each other and get some easy kills, if they get a couple they can get their killstreaks which can effectively guarantee more kills and are sort of inherently satisfying to use.
Dark Souls has the people who actually do learn to get good and realise they suck and fucked up at whatever they died at, or there are people who just latch onto the "lel dark souls so hard xDD prepare to die xDDD" shit and keep playing because they think it's the hot new meme or they're fishing for twitch viewers.
If you lose in a fighting game you only have two people to blame. Either your opponent did some bullshit with their broken-ass character (the Lowtiergod approach) which falls apart as soon as you pick their character and lose constantly; or you can blame yourself and realise you suck and need to get better.
People don't like to think they suck so they blame fighting games instead.

Dragon Punches are hard, fireballs and helicopter kicks are easy.

What do you disagree with?

>a couple hours
if you're fucking retarded

The only proof you need as to why Smash is casual shit made for babbies is the fact that it's popular on Cred Forums.

>Because flying_anime_girls.jpg is not popular. "Nintendo branding" plus "team modes" sweeten the deal.
Not for everyone. Maybe that's true for USA though.
Back when I used to play GG Reload, more people around me knew about GG than Smash.

What game doesn't give you an srk if you end on forward?

or maybe they don't like mashing 30 buttons to do one simple task so they play games with better controls

lel

...

wow, guilty gear isn't a fighting game then :(. I mean Justice is a demigod that killed millions of people, Jam is a chef, and Robo-Ky is a walking garbage can.

>Smash sucks because simple tasks are performed simply
>GOOD games make simple tasks fucking complex and unintuitive, requiring a heavy investment in time to "master"

>Robo-Ky is a walking garbage can.

You fucking take that back.

>Oh god I have to move my stick in a certain way for maybe half a second and then press a button! Oh noooooo!

>Robo-Ky is a walking garbage can.

Just adding my pointless opinion here, I'd like it if DPs were done by half circle up forward instead because it feels more natural and if you fucked up you'd get punished even harder.

I think a couple hours is reasonable if you're never used a stick and you want to input the command reasonably quickly and have it work every time.

There's some video of BeasTV or something where they had Daigo input Ryu's super (236236p) just to see how fast he did it. It's really fast! I definitely can't do it that quickly and have it be reliable.

Sho means Rising
Ryu means Dragon
Ken means Fist (punch)

Rising Dragon Punch.

Ryu can also means purpose, reason (for the character Ryu, he is always seeking his purpose)

Ken means Fist, Ken is always up to battle and is more cocky and violent than Ryu.

You probably already know all that, but I was bored and decided to do a small SF lore course.

>simple tasks are performed simply
>hold your joystick in this microscopic rectangular area near the middle to drop through the platform

Guilty Gear is popular enough to sustain itself. It's certainly not anywhere on the level of Smash.

"Narrative equals" means exactly what I said, that they're all given mostly equal airtime in terms of character development, not that their power levels are equal. (Which, yes, is a failing of the fighting genre, that for the most part, characters have to be on a level playing field both mechanically AND visually, even if one of those characters is the galactic god-king of the universe, because all the action usually takes place in one tiny arena.)

That's what distinguishes fighting games from brawlers, where your protagonist spends most of his time beating up nameless, faceless underpowered losers. (Cred Forums is a brawler.)

Over and over and over for literally every single time for anything and everything. I mean, it's not like most fighting games don't have 6 buttons for punches and kicks, every "move" requires you to stand still and perform a motion string followed by a button press. EVERY thing. There's no winning if you are literally following a "flowchart" in order to perform something like a punch or a kick or a fireball.

Tell me, if I mapped a motion + button press to another button (for example, I want to perform a Dragon Punch, but I don't want to perform the string...so I map it to another button on my fightstick I can press any time), would you be upset that I did it?

what?

most fighting games don't have 6 buttons. and no i wouldnt be mad but it would make you a scrub.

Most moves don't require you to move the joystick before doing the move. Do you mean maybe that you have to be crouching to get a crouching normal, and standing to get a standing normal?

And, of course, fighting characters are also equal because they're built for multiplayer, and there is an expectation that all of the characters are fair enough, that boring outcomes don't rule the day.

Here's how you drop through platforms in ssbm.

Is it good that that there's also a shittier version of dropping through platforms that you can do if you want to lose?

>so I map it to another button on my fightstick I can press any time), would you be upset that I did it?
It would you give some advantage, but I've already played against one guy (offline) who did it trying to prove me same point. So no, this wouldn't upset me.

>yes
It's not the "fight" of a fighting game you like. It's the wrote memorization of inputs to perform a special attack. You like performing a string to see a cutscene, you just call the veneer or "timing" of a fight to disguise the fact you simply like beating everyone's WPM kyeboard classes in elementary. Anything else is cheating for scrubs.