Why does anyone care about VR again all of a sudden like it's new or interesting in any way?
>B-b-but the graphics are better >B-b-but motion controllers >B-b-but head tracking >B-b-but muh immersion
Okay, so how do these things improve the games? You know, the GAMES? The things that people buy these products for? I look at the games and all I see is shooter, puzzle game, survival horror, platformer, etc, things that have been around for the last 2 fucking decades. Can we get some actual new genres please?
Why does this industry hate actual innovation so much? It's the fucking future and this is still the only shit we can come up with? Computer goggles strapped to people's heads? I am disappoint.
Because people want to be 'in' the game and always have since games were put on screens.
You're welcome to argue that immersion isn't worthwhile but don't try and compare it to the Virtual Boy.
Nolan Parker
>B-b-but the graphics are better >B-b-but motion controllers >B-b-but head tracking >B-b-but muh immersion >Okay, so how do these things improve the games? You know, the GAMES? All of those make the games playable is a good start.
Gabriel Evans
I bought a Vive on release. I haven't used it in months.
You very quickly realise that without any sort of locomotion outside of teleporting, you're limited to static experiences in a small space.
We might as well go back to arcade style games with VR.
VR is dead because humans aren't built for it.
Oliver Wilson
>I bought a Vive on release. I haven't used it in months. Thats because PeeCee got no games.
Kayden Cruz
Apparently people have been enjoying Onward which is a simple Insurgency-style shooter with ordinary joystick locomotion. Give it a shot, maybe regular games are possible in VR after all.
Jason Perez
It's going to be the same on PSVR retard, only PS devs seem to live in their own world where biology doesn't exist.
Jaxson Smith
Pretty much everyone gets uncomfortable / sick in time though. I can't even get to the part with the hazard suit in HL2 without needing the lie down for 2 hours.
Elijah Gonzalez
> arcades are bad thing I think arcade is less for shooters but for cockpit driven games. And maybe it's close to arcade games with sitting in a cockpit like structure, but they're still fun.
Also I want to play an Apache game coop with a friend.
Benjamin Flores
>i-its t-totally g-gonna b-be t-the s-same!!! Lel no, PC VR shows what PC gaming would be like today without console scraps.
Joshua Garcia
HL2's movespeed might be too high for VR. I've definitely seen people on Youtube get queasy the second they hop into the airboat.
Wyatt Brown
nintendrone jealousy
Christopher Phillips
Go on then, show me sources. Explain how PSVR is going to solve locomotion in VR.
Jeremiah Howard
Most VR games are self funded since triple A won't touch it until it goes main stream. Not alot of people have that kind of cash to drop on development and there are not all that many headsets out there primarily due to product cost, secondary due to simsickness fear and minor issues with the lack of quality games (see already mentioned issues combined with the short development time frame). Therefore not much return for personal out of pocket investment.
From my experience in titles like Raw Data, Hover Junkers and Onward it's clear that the potential of thsee headsets are leaps and bounds far greater then traditional console/pc gaming but you're not going to see it for a few years when the headsets become more affordable.
Elijah Hughes
From what I can tell, its going to be used with the PS4 controler
Henry Rivera
Where did I imply arcades are a bad thing? I'm saying arcade style games like space invaders where you're static with a single objective that just gets harder over time.
Without locomotion, VR is dead. Cockpits do not solve the issue.
Onward uses conventional locomotion and doesn't have any tools to deal with simsickness, but it seems to be taking off anyway. Do we have any testimonials on how people are dealing with it? Do they just not play for more than an hour? Do they just get used to it and stop feeling nauseous?
Robert Brown
>MUH GAMES >MUH FUN >R-right guys? Am I right?
When are these shitty buzzwords going to end?
Jonathan Robinson
That's the WORST thing you can do, you realise this right? Having any non-player drive motion = motion sickness for ~40% of people playing.
You can't even use it for watching movies or browsing because the resolution is way too low. Even at 1440p the screen door effect is massive.
Joseph Ramirez
Source on 40%?
Brayden Perez
Sorry but I trust in devs with long development history over some shitty indies shitting out PC VR games trying to cash into desperation for games from suckers like you.
>PlayStation VR is different — there's practically no screen-door effect even though the display's resolution is lower than Rift's and Vive's.
Blake Hill
Depending on FOV and personal tendency towards motion sickness, maybe. I'm inclined to say that without some kind of third-person camera lagging behind the player you'd puke immediately moving at those speeds and accelerations. Onward seems to be fine because players move very slowly.
Screen door effect has nothing to do with motion sickness.
Justin Jackson
I read it elsewhere but:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness >Motion sickness due to virtual reality is very similar to simulation sickness and motion sickness due to films. In virtual reality, however, the effect is made more acute as all external reference points are blocked from vision, the simulated images are three-dimensional and in some cases stereo sound that may also give a sense of motion. The NADS-1, a simulator located at the National Advanced Driving Simulator, is capable of accurately stimulating the vestibular system with a 360-degree horizontal field of view and 13 degrees of freedom motion base.[16] Studies have shown that exposure to rotational motions in a virtual environment can cause significant increases in nausea and other symptoms of motion sickness.[17]
>In a study conducted by the U.S. Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences in a report published May 1995 titled "Technical Report 1027 - Simulator Sickness in Virtual Environments", out of 742 pilot exposures from 11 military flight simulators, "approximately half of the pilots (334) reported post-effects of some kind: 250 (34%) reported that symptoms dissipated in less than one hour, 44 (6%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than four hours, and 28 (4%) reported that symptoms lasted longer than six hours. There were also four (1%) reported cases of spontaneously occurring flashbacks."[18]
You know absolutely nothing about VR. Your links cites no solutions to VR sickness or locomotion issues. Enjoy your VR baby toy / kinect2..
Carter Cooper
You are the one that brought SDE up.
>You can't even use it for watching movies or browsing because the resolution is way too low. Even at 1440p the screen door effect is massive.
Luis Fisher
Most of us with headsets are people who started with Oculus developer kits. Back then artifical locomotion was the only kind of locomotion.
To answer your question though simulation sickness (ie: motion sickness) is not relative. There are people who are completely immune to it and then you got other people who can get motion sickness from jumping on a trampoline.
Most simsickness discussions are full of misinformation. What you actually have is described as comfortable experiences and uncomfortable experiences.
Comfortable experiences are projects that are intended for people new to VR and people sensitive to motion sickness. Uncomfortable experiences are intended for vets so they can do the wild shit you would see in old school sci-fi (but without the other 3 senses obviously since it primarily handles vision and hearing).
As I mentioned previously most VR projects are funded out of pocket so comfortable experiences appear to be the norm due to
A. The small community (lack of financial return).
B. Misinformation in relation to simulation sickness.
Ethan Powell
>vrheads.com/playstation-vr-why-theres-no-screen-door-effect I'll wait for some actual analysis on the display. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but you'd need at least an 8k display to actually remove the screen door effect. Even the count of sub pxiels isn't enough to remove the screen door effect.
You've basically linked a blog post, it means nothing.
Dominic Brooks
>You know absolutely nothing about VR. Your links cites no solutions to VR sickness or locomotion issues. Enjoy your VR baby toy / kinect2.. No, I dont but neither do you. I trust devs to figure it out. Your experience is from lowbudget indies because thats all PC VR has.
Jack Edwards
There's reason to be skeptical, but the fact that film-induced motion sickness is more or less unheard of these days is evidence that people can adapt over time.
Sorry, I'm a different poster and I thought you were bringing it up to refute his motion sickness point.
Isaac Lewis
...
Jackson Sanchez
Again, show me some sources that show PSVR has solved locomotion. You can't, because they haven't. PSVR is a toy, and the devs live in their own world outside of the actual industry leaders at Valve / Oculus and know absolutely nothing about VR. They're looking to make some quick money, and as always, console faggots are getting raped. Again, enjoy your toy.
Aaron Gomez
Most of us with headsets are people who started with Oculus developer kits. Back then artifical locomotion was the only kind of locomotion.
To answer your question though simulation sickness (ie: motion sickness) is not relative. There are people who are completely immune to it and then you got other people who can get motion sickness from jumping on a trampoline.
Most simsickness discussions are full of misinformation. What you actually have is described as comfortable experiences and uncomfortable experiences.
Comfortable experiences are projects that are intended for people new to VR and people sensitive to motion sickness. Uncomfortable experiences are intended for vets so they can do the wild shit you would see in old school sci-fi (but without the missing senses obviously since it primarily handles vision and sound).
As I mentioned previously most VR projects are funded out of pocket so comfortable experiences appear to be the norm due to
A. The small community (lack of financial return).
B. Misinformation in relation to simulation sickness.
Luke Carter
This. The OP picture is clearly not related.
Julian Edwards
everyone likes porn
Connor Foster
There is no source because not every game is the same you fucking idiot. Devs are figuring out their own way to make VR viable. Take Capcom for example.
bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-03/virtual-reality-horror-game-tests-limits-of-technology-nausea >Doing first-person VR has also added to the challenge, he said. In most games, players usually control movements with one gamepad stick and perspective with another. But with VR, they just have to turn their heads. To make 360-degree environments more comfortable, Capcom slowed down the speed at which players can move themselves within the game and change viewing angles in larger increments. The newest version, set in an abandoned house with foreboding noises, still delivers a claustrophobic and pulse-quickening experience.
Nathaniel Stewart
I'd rather steer clear of value-laden words like comfortable and uncomfortable -- what I'm interested in is whether or not people naturally progress from nausea-safe experiences (teleportation+roomscale) to advanced ones with artificial locomotion. How many people adapt? Are there any people who never adapt?
Landon Hughes
>Why does anyone care about VR again all of a sudden like it's new or interesting in any way? Because the technology is better? Kind of like how speech recognition software was a gimmick but actually works now, or artificial intelligence has practical applications now.
Evan James
VR improves the experience of playing all racing games and shit like minecraft vastly.
If you dont understand why being immersed in those type of games improves the experience then you are either retarded or just being contrarian to fit in on Cred Forums
David White
There's no source because nobody has solved it you dumb fucking cuck. Yet again, you still haven't linked to how they're solving locomotion. Capcom are simply ignoring it you fucking retard, what you green texted is a VR issue from fucking years ago. Holy shit just slit your throat you absolutely clueless cretin.
Aaron Parker
There's a group of indie devs which figured out adjusting the fov can help reduce it, but so far there is nothing to fix motion sickness.
Grayson Jackson
Take your pills
If you reduce it enough that the majority of people will not notice it, that will already be very good.
Aaron Green
You can just use M+KB with the Vive, you know. You don't have to use the waggle controls.
Asher Roberts
>Implying enough people actually care for this to take off. >This is the farthest VR has ever come but it's adoption rate has slowed to a crawl since launch. >Palmer Luckey pissed the bed by selling to facebook, then bringing politics into Oculus. >It's still at a restrictive price point for the average buyer. >Still no must have app. >Smart Phones can't even sell VR and their install base is massive. >Playstation VR is needed for a boost but with Sony's history of supporting it's peripherals...
So, where is all this care for VR?
Jayden Turner
It still amuses me that people don't realize the NX is the virtual boy 2 and it's a wii u add on + separate controller that has goggles.
Sebastian Peterson
YOURE RIGHT OP
WE NEED INNOVATION
BUT NOT THIS KIND BECAUSE ITS NOT A NEW GENRE
FUCKING FAGGOT OP STOP POSTING
Charles Powell
As I previously mentioned simulation isn't realtive. I didn't clarify what I ment about veterns however. It is theoretically possible to build up resistance to simsickness however since it isn't relative this does not hold true for 100% of the population.
Think of it like driving a car. You hardly notice anything at all when you'be been driving your whole life but everyone has that one friend that always gets sick in the back seat.
William King
you got blown the fuck out and you have no retort, console shitters raped once again
they saw a *slight* improvement allowing people to play for about 10 minutes longer, but it doesn't solve the issue. there is no solution right now. again PSVR devs live in the bubble outside of the actual industry leaders of VR and are going to make players sick.
There's no getting around this, you have no sources. Kill yourself.
Benjamin Powell
There are VR headset owners right now who experience no problems with artificial locomotion. For them locomotion already IS solved.
What do you mean by 'not relative'?
Jack Reyes
>Im a little bitch that throws up by the smallest locomotion issue I pity you for wasting $800 and you know... being a little bitch.
Brayden Wright
You can't ignore HALF of the population you fucking autistic faggot. You STILL haven't linked a SINGLE study showing VR sickness is solved.
It's already solved for half the population. Meanwhile there are still human beings who can't drive without getting motion sickness.
Carter Cox
Like $800 means anything to me lmao, I pity you for being so poor you think $800 is any meaningful amount of money.
Tyler Wilson
is that seriously what old vr looked like? my god it looks like some kind of fucking electric uhh whatsit, those kids toys with the cardboard picture wheel sticking out the top and you look through the goggles and its 3d its look like that. no wonder it never fucking caught on
Jace Jenkins
Uncomfortable experiences have no negative effects on me, but they might have a great effect on you if you have never tried modern VR. Unless you are like my army buddy who was immune since day one. It's impossible to tell unless you try it because motion sickness is not relative from one person to another.
Henry Bailey
VR and driving aren't even comparable, because driving still includes motion which means the sickness involved is much less than what VR does to you. If you honestly think VR is going to let you play Quake, or first person shooters then you're absolutely 100% fucking retarded. VR is ONLY going to consist of static arcade like experiences. Fuck me I thought summer was over. Why am I even talking to a fucking peasant.
Jace Howard
You clearly only know about the Virtual Boy only exactly what the picture in OP tells you. Please lurk and do not post if you do not know what you are talking about.
Nolan Turner
That's a funny way to look at it, Nintendo literally did VR 20 years ago and it failed then too.
Nothing's changed, people don't want to wear a bunch of shit on their face.
Leo Jackson
Not a single source that shows anyone, anywhere has solved locomotion in VR. Enjoy your static experiences cucks.
Brody Turner
There literally are people playing first person shooters in VR right now with minimal nausea. I can't believe you are getting angrier and angrier trying to claim that it's impossible.
Modern VR has its own set of challenges and shortcomings. It has nothing at all to do with the Virtual Boy. Remember that the Virtual Boy looked like this. It was 3D goggles with only one colour.
Jeremiah Morgan
I would play an apache coop game with you, or Top Gun >Talk to me, Goose
David Garcia
Too bad you cant buy yourself out of being a little bitch.
Chase Fisher
So? The gameboy looked like this, it lasted three generations.
Ayden Perry
Pic related is from a 3D movie in London from 1951, 30 years after the first 3D film aired in the 1920's.
3D has always been a novel gimmick. We've had almost 100 years to perfect it and commercialize it in a meaningful way.
It just won't stick, whether it is film or video games. On the subject of video games, 3D is always touted as this way to IMMERSE yourself, but it's actually pretty fucking constrictive. You can only play from a first person perspective. You don't have tactile feedback, such as your sword being stopped by a blocked move. You can't run without a cumbersome 360 degree treadmill contraption.
The Virtual Boy didn't fail because it was ahead of it's time. It failed because nobody wanted it- same as what has happened to the Oculus Rift.
Aside from the shareholders and literal backers, there isn't a market or want for 3D video games.
Dylan Hill
Compressed to the level that even a retard can understand; the Virtual Boy doesn't have the technology or screens to make the brain think it's hallucinating and causing motion sickness. When playing one it's moreso like watching a game on a projector screen in the distance, there's no all-encompassing FOV like modern headsets.
Jayden Jenkins
I played Virtual Boy before you were born, kid.
Isaiah Gomez
And people could carry it around with them and play it on the bus. The Virtual Boy was like a Game Boy that you had to sit down and put your face into a heavy box to play. It also cost 180 USD on launch. It also didn't feature any sort of head-tracking that is the core of VR and existed in a primitive form even at the time.
Isaiah Allen
Your point being?
Caleb Jenkins
How about I explain to you what it was like to use a PC?
Lucas Moore
That's why we have comfortable experiences and uncomfortable ones.
So people like me can play whatever I want and people like you can play job simulator.
Lucas Miller
Entertain me.
Dylan James
I would imagine that jet flying is a great sp vr experience, but not as a coop game in the same fighter/bomber.
I would love talking to a buddy in the same cockpit with shit like "Enemies to our left moving behind the building." - "Roger got it, I move us around, but keep the transport in sight" - "Ok I see them, opening fire, got'em!" - "fuck yeah great, moving around we need to focus on the convoy."
I played the BF3 viper coop mission over and over. Apache on PS3 was good as well, but Couch coop was average at best ( because of lacking split screen )
Andrew Ramirez
>Portable >Cheap >Five million games, many of which are renowned masterpieces
All while
>Not forcing you to redecorate your living room >Not forcing you to tie a weight around your forehead >Not causing any bit of disorientation whatsoever
I know that people hate the 3DS but they're not fucking stupid. Who cares about VR when 3D is still so convenient?
John Wood
>not as a coop game in the same fighter/bomber Why not? It seems like the rest of your post advocates otherwise.
Juan Diaz
Quake will never play well in VR, it's just too fast. Unless you got an Iron Stomach you're gonna puke 5 mins into a deathmatch round; Rocket Jumping, Bunny Hopping at Sanic speeds, and the need to rotate your view over 180 degrees in less than 0.001ms with that ultra-wide FOV is never gonna work well with your Brain in VR (unless you can physically do all that shit IRL, which humans don't BTW).
Something like Call of Duty or Battlefield will probably be the only mainstream online game that plays better in VR. Even then they're probably still too fast.
Nolan Moore
I loved playing with a copilot on voice in BFBC2. Coordinating with a tank driver to engage infantry with RPGs, coordinating with a helicopter gunner to keep them stable while they light someone up on the ground.
The 3DS is low-res, has plenty of spillover, and isn't as immersive as a headset that fills your field of vision. Most people I've seen just keep the 3D off.
Carter Sanchez
Because you're way more distant to your target and have longer approach times. From a simulation point I think it's fun! But not for some immediate action. Have you played DCS? It's fun, but you only the the enemy as a radar blimp or marked surface target.
Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy that a lot, but some heli action seems to me more easy accessible for just fun.
Elijah Morgan
Imagine VR when it gets down to this form factor.
They'll just appear to be big sunglasses that are easy to wear and aren't encumbering. You put them on and your computer room becomes whatever you want it to be. Simulate entire walls of monitors, have 3D women walking around, and decorate it with 3D model figurines or what have you.
This is the future that I want to live in.
Brayden Green
holy shit you sure are retarded. any light that gets in would ruin the immersion.
Owen Roberts
put blinders on the sides like safety goggles. problem solved.
Gabriel Rodriguez
there'd still have to be a strap of some sort to keep it pressed against your face.
Jacob Hill
You might be waiting for a long time.
Blake Davis
>Okay, so how do these things improve the games? You know, the GAMES? >graphics Higher quality rendering means more engaging worlds and less eye strain. >motion controllers >head tracking Interactivity on a different level allows for new game experiences. >immersion Is hardly a bad thing.
Jacob Myers
Yeah I played a little bit of DCS, way too hardcore of a sim for me, something closer to ARMA would be fun coop though
Lincoln Bennett
Shit forgot about Arma! Yes that could be a great experience.
Ryan Powell
there's a program that lets you use VR headsets for various games that don't normally support it, including Arma 3, but I forgot what it's called and I have no idea how well it works. Also good luck running Arma 3 at a high enough framerate for VR
