How do we revive the RTS genre?

Starcraft 2 still has 20k concurrent players at night

it became tedious after the last expansion, the economy changes forces you to focus more in the macro management because minerals run out earlier, so you need to expand faster.

That meaning the most viable way to win is to damage the enemy economy through harassment, changing starcraft to a guerrilla game instead of a war game.

Too bad the game is not that good.

By keeping development costs low and making it crystal clear to everyone involved that your audience cap is pretty low. There is pretty low incentive to make an RTS since the return on investment is so low. People would rather put money into some other project with a higher expected profit. RTS's need to be accessible fluff wise (40k, WW2, Modern Day, Star Wars) and they need a company that views RTS as a safe capture of a niche audience.

After that understand that most people are not playing your game for multiplayer. They are playing for a comfy time with the campaign or a tough but beatable skirmish AI. Balance multiplayer only after creating that solid base.

>Star Wars RTS
Genius! Empire would be such an awesome faction to play as.

>After that understand that most people are not playing your game for multiplayer
This. I remember how disappointed I was in C&C3. Shit felt like it was made for multiplayer and balanced for le super fast RTS action.

make RTS games with FUCKING WALLS

None of the new big games have walls
AOE had walls
There's a reason why AOE is the most famous RTS (Hint; It's not the neat little phrases you get when you order a peasant around)

By making a game that has mechanical similarities to the classics, such as the C&C series of the 90s, Age of Empires, Homeworld and even Dune.

The maps need to be relatively detailed but that detail must not stop the player from exploring different directions from which to approach his objectives. The player should be able to complete each mission whenever he feels like it, the sense of urgency should only be conveyed through the details of the terrain and the music, rarely through voice acting and never hammered in his face about how "fast" he must complete his objectives.

You need to be drawn in to that world, a convoluted story and many award winning actors will fail even if the gameplay is rock solid. A more laid back approach is enough to draw you in. Exposition at the start of each mission must be very short and straight to the point, exposition can be done during gameplay but it must be short and to the point and again, not overdone.

The AI needs to be redone, all we have nowadays is a relatively idiotic AI that's been programmed to cheat. It doesn't know how to "play" the game anymore, raising the difficulty doesn't make them harder because they do certain rotations faster but because they get more money than the player. Your own AI must also know what the fuck it must know to do when you tell it to go from A to B or to mine or anything you tell it.

And that's from the top of my head.

I hope everyone in this thread bought Cossacks 3...

You and me lets go square up m8

It's still leagues ahead of Red Alert 3 and C&C 4

Petroglyph AKA Westwood AKA Refugees from EA made one actually. It was fun at the time but doesn't really hold up too well. It could be really fun if they used the expanded universe to get multiple factions in there.

Well, yeah. It was playable and had EVA but that's pretty much it. I remember how hyped I was for the story and return of a Kain just to find out cutscenes now is just people sitting and talking. What the hell, Tiberian Sun was completely different. And whole game atmosphere is shit.

There's also the idea of keeping your universe actually interesting. It was fun as fuck in CnC to watch the world change borders after completing certain missions. Nod slowly expanding or the Soviet Union slowly being pushed back. Starcraft 1 had actually interesting characters with emotions that made sense and exposition that made sense. Starcraft 2 didn't make me give a damn about anyone really. CoH will always have the WW2 backdrop to give it strength but those small expansions detailing the campaign of a single Tiger tank crew helped make you want to return to the game after you'd grown tired of it. CnC Generals it was just fucking fun to watch the rise and fall of the GLA.

This
Popular RTS games have always been good in both singleplayer and multiplayer, even SC2 which is very heavily focused on the multiplayer side has a pretty substantial singleplayer campaign

They totally scrapped the doom of Tiberium Sun to. Tiberium was so widespread and so destructive that the planet was at risk of losing so many trees that were would be out of oxygen. Everything was falling apart. Blue, yellow, red zones are closer to what the world probably looked like between Dawn and Sun, not after Sun. The explanation of vibration to keep areas free of tiberium is not enough to explain away the complete environmental destruction it had wrought.

What people want is basebuilding games, not rts.
There are a few rtt games with decent communities anyway.

this is true for almost every traditional(base-building) RTS

It's dead for a reason which is that the new generation of gamers don't like it basically especially compared to MOBA's.
Compare the playerbase of LoL to that one of Starcraft.

I was tempted but I heard that it was pretty damn unfinished

Surely there is a balance that can be found. People like basebuilding. It's fun. It's the gateway into the genre and most people wern't going to get into hardcore multiplayer anyways. There is a reason everyone complained that CoH2 didn't have an annihilation mode when it first came out. Better to build a game that capable of that and proper RTS as well, then to let the genre keep drifting away.

I pirated it. Get fukt. They should just stop making them.

It's basically a straight port of Cossacks 1 without any expansions to a new engine.

Allow for actual fucking variety.
15 years ago was brilliant for RTS games not just because of muh AoE, WC3 and SC:BW but because it had a massive amounts of variety thanks to games like impossible creatures, warlords battlecry, the cossacks series and so forth.
RTS games died for the same reason arena shooters died, because everyone was making clones of the biggest games at the time and whenever anything new came out the playerbase shunned it because it wasn't exactly the same as their favourite RTS (usually complaining about it being casual shit because everything has to be super competitive e-sports)

BWHD and sc2
also kill ASSFAGGOTS

With a ton of silly bugs as well, from what I heard. Not really an issue with the gameplay itself.

>never played any cossacks game
>decide to dl cossacks 3 and play with the bot a bit
>win a normal game, wtf this bot is fucking dumb
>win a hard one
>this is ridiculous, ill try impossible
>win
>uninstall game

it's probably ok in multiplayer but fuck this

on another note, im still playing mostly AoM, any good rts i should try? doesnt matter if old, obviously. just want it to have good skirmish games and good AI. is AOE one such game?

And this is the problem. You want a good RTS to come to the market. CHANGE the paradigm. Make it about something else. That early harass meta is boring as fuck. There is really very little STRATEGY to it. It's reaction times and action speed. Same this as modern fps. Boring bullshit.

Make a game about strategy. Make about choices of where and how to fight. When to hold ground and when to withdraw and regroup. Give more options to the player, rather then one uber-victory path. Find ways to make the game about the choices you made determining the results of a battle, but making the war more about which battles you win.

I believe an above poster to be quite correct. It's bad A.I. programming. Until game designers start focusing on A.I.s that can both challenge a player and assist a player, and not just use resource and fog of war cheats to make it a challenge, then the genre is just going to stay stagnant. Once you can arrange for a series of skimish battles, while building your infrastructure to prepare for a later pinpoint assault on the enemy's weakened front that you have been draining of resources through a scheme of losing a series of costly opponent victories to have the enemy over confidently throw his reserves at your prepared ambuscade to tie up his forces and prevent their reinforcing his primary production factilities, you will not have RTS make a comeback.

tl;dr

The programmers need to git gud instead of entertaining you by putting you against other humans and focusing too much on graphics.

>never played any cossacks game
>no idea how the macro and the economy are working
>win impossible

Nice try faggot.

it was extremely basic
im high iq

whats a good rts to play?

i've been playing RA2, cnc generals, AoE, AoM, stronghold crusader, i had enough of them but i dont know any other good rts

I still can't beat hardest AI in AoE2 without cheesing with towers or something
Feels bad man
I do fine until the midgame but then I can't keep up with the macro of growing my base, producing military, micromanaging villagers and units, scouting, walling and so on, and he eventually just zergs me down

Turn based best

aoe2 has good AI?

Systems need to be in place that reward strategic thinking over "outproduce other guy and send my massive blob into his blob"
Stuff like RTT games do with cover mechanics and so on. Just relatively simple things like that which can put more of an emphasis on strategic thinking than mechanical ability (which is important but I think it puts people off when they perceive it to be the only factor determining whether you win or lose, there can be space for different types of RTS games)

Not really, you can cheese it easily but it surpasses me in the macro department

By killing the autistic fanbase that only wants to play the same games over and over again since the 90s.

the HD remake has new AI.

I liked Settlers 3&4. They stopped the early wipe by making offensive strength of units low in the beginning. You'd have to produce gold or gems to make your troops worth as much as defenders and late game attackers would be stronger than defenders due to bullion stockup.

Then again Settlers wasn't at all fast paced series.

>autoqueue infinite peasants
>send to chop wood and shit
revolutionary

Is there slow and comfy RTS games where I can take my time to build the base and manage my recources?

fight me 1 v 1 behind the school after classes

Stronghold

Rise of Nations is nice that way. Build up your economy and build a defensive force to protect your base. Keep a secondary force to strike as soon as you break the enemy attack and you should be good.

How to run C&C Tiberian dawn on W7?

How's 8bit hordes on steam?

By making PC a premium platform again.

pirate it

Looks about as cheap as it was to make
They're making ANOTHER fucking 8-bit game when the first two could be greatly improved with just a bit more content. Each game looks like a different themed expansion to the other.

but PC is more of a premium platform than it was 15 years ago.

Stronhold is more of city bulding game, and economics sim, than an RTS, since you have to keep your population happy by managing food rationing and taxes, getting multiple food sources and happines úpducing buildings (churches, inns).
Most of warfare there is revolves around defending your fortifications, and if you don´t want deal with it, you can do free play or the economic missions.

Customize your units. Like Army Painter for Dawn of War, except instead of paint you get weapons and armor and accessories

Why o why does Company of heroes 2 feel so unfulfilling compared to the first, plus fuck that card system

Compatibility mode.

The economy is awful. I can't imagine the market getting every new RTS just to figure out if they've improved SupCom's features, as if that has lobbies at all.

It's busy getting CoD (now with mod tools) and Battlefield, not to mention trying Battlefront, fighting games (place any other action genre here, and it's probably true as well because action is inherently entertaining)..

The problem with RTS is that winning is basically memorization. Maps have resources that have to be min-maxed, and without that is it really an RTS?

Of course it is. Any gameplay that could exist in another genre could as an RTS: battle bots, 3D fighting, mechs, etc. FPSRTS already exist, but apparently Cred Forums doesn't play them.

Stop focussing on multiplayer, and designing the games such that the first 10-20 seconds are absolutely crucial. They're meant to be military strategy games, not economy simulators.

Not its not, for starters not all RTSs have peasants

That usually only happens in the early to early mid game after that its too cost inefficient to rush workers

Starcraft's problem is that its not really an RTSs, it was more of a tactics game and since they dumbed down the tactics to A click the game became stale as fuck. Like the only actual strategic decision you make is when to expand not even where

in RA and AoE2 for example you have to gain and sustain as many parts of the maps as possible since resources are spread all over it.

There are too little strategic elements in starcraft

The base game not. If you survive the early rush you can win 1v12 hardest AI since all they do is to send small packs of 3-5 units

>fighting games

You are dead wrong.
Those are not popular with the regular market at all and are just as alive/dead as RTS.

Normies cant handle 1on1 competition.

i agree
in sc and wc you have discrete spots where you build your new town center, in aoe you can build it all over the map where you think it's best, in aom the spots are discrete too but the resources are not.

I dont know man, its the same with AOE3 and AOE2, 3 just doesnt feel right.

I feel like every new RTS wants to be the next big multiplayer RTS hit. But everyone is so sub-divided into their game of choice no one is willing to flock en-mass to a new multiplayer game of choice.

These RTS focus so much on multiplayer that they usually have piss poor single player campaigns.

Personally I think they need to focus on the singleplayer and when enough people buy it for that maybe they'll get into its multiplayer.

Thats just my opinion though.

I just want a remade sup com that works with modern cpu architecture and doesn't lag as fuck.

The problem is not the fixed spots per se its the lack of elements that have to be considered. SC has nothing at all which only leaves the tatctics aspect

Both coh sucked
>lets make gigantic maps
>where oyu only have a few units
>With resource spots you have to pay to build and require no investment to deny if its not built
>and allow only a handful of units which even have a FREE escape button if the player fucks up

Its worse than that. They neglect every aspect of the game

also supcom fucking sucks
>Tower defense
>The game

>How do we revive the RTS genre?
Make FUN games with great SP campaigns instead of esports with skirmish shovelware.

Most rts gamers are not apm autists.

RTS games completely lost its way because everyone wants to make the next big multiplayer esports game instead of making an actual fun RTS.

What made classic RTS so good and fun are developers putting creativity and new first and competitiveness not even on the board.

Look at SC1. IT has great style and character. Because of this it gave us units who's play style is completely different from what people have seen before or gave traditional units an interesting twist that made them just different enough to make you reconsider how you use them.

RTS nowadays aren't doing this. They are either trying to emulate older RTS games without fixing anything or adding anything new or trying to make a game where you don't have to think as much and that you know exactly what your enemy has and is doing.

The units feel smaller and the bullets less impactful. In COH1 the map is a lot cleaner and bullets bigger. Also the unit VA was a million gazillion times better.

If Relic only went back to COH1 and implemented a few fixes it could be the endall game

Its like you niggers never played a game of Stronghold. Units are already killing each other before the 5 minutes. Outside the Campaigns economic maintenance is easy as fuck.

Some how some way get developers / publishers to stop being lazy and or greedy.

The problem facing modern RTS design is mostly a problem of business. All the best RTS games have one thing in common that modern developers / publishers hate. A great single player game.

To make a memorable RTS you have to make a good LONG single player. Build everything to single player. Balance everything to single player. Single player must be the focus of the game. The problem is to make a great single player game takes time and money both things modern developers / publishers dont want to give.

Multiplayer should evolve out of the single player game. If you build the game to be multiplayer first it will be bland and boring because we have seen it all before. Sides will all have their "thing" each will have units that do X and are weak at Y and it will all be boring over balanced shit and the game will die in a few months.

This is why RTS has "died" not because of lack of interest, just look at Grey Goo and other recent RTS games, but because they all focus WAY to heavily on multiplayer.

If you want proof of what I'm saying think of all the great RTS games that still have huge followings. AOE2, C&C, SUPCOM, look at their single players. They all have GREAT single player games and the multiplayer is an extension of what is offered in the single player.

Have you guys ever heared of Galactic Battlegrounds? It's an awesome old Star Wars RTS based on the Genie engine of Age of Empire I and II. I recently started a wiki on it and I am looking for contributors.

Bring back base building.
It feels like everything is either spawning in troops or you have like 4 fuckin' buildings.. But then when a game does focus on building it turns into a fucking sim without any combat.

It opens up just another level of pretty simple strategy to the genre.

Like what happened to fucking walls?
Walls were my favorite. When it comes to defending, and if you ask me, DUNNO, but walls are pretty much on the top of the list for good ideas/shit you want around your base.

>Original War
My nigga

It's simple, you don't. It died out for a reason.
MOBAs take the best from RTS and RPGs and combine it.

Another thing too is also how fast RTS matches last. An average match used last 30 minutes minimum, but because competitive RTS has become popular, and that your average RTS fan is an adult with little free time on their hands, RTS games can no longer be slower paced.

SC2 matches last 30 min MAX. Units now also have "hard counters" where they get completel ripped apart by the counter unit even if massivly out numbered.

Because of a focus on faster play style battles are no longer fun and exciting to watch but instead much more impactful that a single lost battle can determine the entire game and comebacks are near impossible meaning that aggression is going to be plan A, B and C and turtleing is going to do more harm than good

Defenses no longer defend positions and are more as territory markers or scout towers than to actually defend a point. Just look at SC2. SC2 zerg players have a tendincy to not even build spine crawlers because they are generally terrible and defending anything.

IF it wasn't for the fact that photon canons and missle turrets where detectors I doubt terran and protoss players would build them either.

Good

So what, one day eventually, you want just 1 ultimate game?

It could start by having pic related finally rereleased.

They try to market it as building bases and building armies but whenever I try to play an RTS I always get match with an adderall Korean who rushes me with pop cap basic infantry five minutes in as I only get my one unit out and it's just me sitting there watching him whittle my base down

I could git gud and stoop to his level but that's gay, I want to build armies with tanks and upgraded units and watch them fight the other guys armies, not whatever that was.

If you want 15 minute matches go play call of duty you cunt

I'd bet they're more healthy than RTS on the basis that they're on consoles, not to mention tournament niches.

>Implying any big company goes for anything else than maximum profit
>Implying any company other than indie-tier devs is interested in making games to fill niches
>Implying we are not living in the age where there is obligatory co-op multiplayer added to everything, regardless type of game

Mate, how many years you've spent under the ice? 10? 15?

You're just asking to get hit.

And here we can see the tumorous niggerfaggot shitposting in its natural habitat. This one is particularly weak, perhaps the runt of its litter. Make note, and let's move along.

Set peace time when making match?
Most GOOD RTS have such feature precisely to prevent rushes and focus on big battles. Or make it a house rule if the game doesn't have such setting

Daily reminder Cossacks 3 are coming out soon

This. Most games have shit tier defenses. Either its godly turrets that require deathballing to overcome. Or its defenses are just a waste of time. Walls being like paper and being a pain to organize properly and a waste of resources.

>Cossacks 3 are coming out soon

They came out week ago.
And they are glorious

SupCom is guilty for most of this. Either you can't defend shit or you end with turtle base so strong not even raining nukes will help

Kill off all Asian people or create one that doesn't hinge more on having 300 apm than actual strategy.

Make it playable on analog sticks

Or said adderall koreans can fuck off to the objective gamemodes if they want to be rushing assholes and let the retards like me parade their toy soldiers around the map in peace on the Anihilation/Deathmatch modes

Make more games like pic related. Also stop pandering to retards with short attention spans.

>Cossacks
American Conquest 2 when? Or at least some extensive modding to fix few basic issues. Jesus Christ, that game was almost perfect when it comes to what I want from RTS

>esports

This is the cancer that killed rts

Some nations have complete shit unique units or really got the short end of stick with their bonuses, also modern and information ages feel rushed like hell.

I don't have those problems, because I don't play the same games as Koreans, so go fucking figure. You should give American Conquest a try. Really enjoyable at what you want to do. Cossacks 1 can go to if you don't mind engine that is visibly aged and the fact AC upgraded pretty much every feature of Cossacks.

You then have the opposite of RTS games being way to complicated. Say what you will about CoH2 being easy but it's not compared to many of the classics. Unit comp is EVERYTHING. Tanks have multiple weak points and firing on one side can do much more damage than firing on the other. Armored units even take zero damage from anything that isn't anti armor. Everything needs to be micromanaged and attack move is going to be the worst thing you can ever do. You even have to aim some units manually or fear being completely taken out from an undefended flank.

Because of things like this it becomes overly complicated and a chore that you have to almost baby sit every unit and building.

So you now get to choose Esports 300 meter dash or 4D chess RTS, neither of which are fun or can be played semicasuality.

Anyone play Ashes of the Singularity? Don't care about the multi but how is the campaign?

It goes a little extreme with its researching...

Rise of Legends was better campaign-wise. Shame they had to cut 1/3 of content out of the game on final production phase

desu macro in WC3 is pretty abysmal compared to the micro portion of it. Worker harass isn't really a big deal after the first 5 minutes

RTS?
Mate, RTS are at least still made in some reasonable quantity and quality. The only turn-based games nowdays are some shitty sequels to series that died decade or so ago, more and more dumbed down with each part.

>SC2 zerg players have a tendincy to not even build spine crawlers because they are generally terrible and defending anything.

I guess terran use their missile turrets a bit but good players just play around it. The problem with defensive buildings is that they're stationary and easily played around, why bother spending important resources on building shit you literally can't use outside turtling like a retard?

What were they playing at.
>get team together to look at rereleasing this
>"Shall we do a kickstarter for the same sort of game based on nostalgia? Those seem to do well recently."
>"Nah. Let's do a kickstarter for a collectible card game based on the same universe, and if that does well we can use that money to remake Battle Realms."
>strangely it turned out people that want a remade Battle Realms don't want a fucking CCG and the kickstarter fails
>this kills the chances of getting a new Battle Realms strategy game.
Fucking ridiculous.

most RTs unit feel like toys on a playmat instead of army of men willing to die for me

World in conflict was superb and had whitesnake
More RTS games need more 80s rock sounding soundtracks

Whoah... that's RTS? Looks rather like some turn-based 4X

Cool bait, enjoyed it

>instead of army of men willing to die for me
Go check Original War.
You are going to love it.

>Daily reminder Cossacks 3 are coming out soon

daily reminder that cossacks 3 is already out (lol no marketing) and it's riddled of bugs

Still less bugs than Cossacks 2 after two years of patching

Nope, Starcraft 2 and probably even COH2 have a way larger active playerbase, then e.g SF5 which is the most played fightan.

And every other fighter is so niche that it probably has like 300 active players.

SC2 has literally 100 to 1000x times the players SF5 has.

didn't play it. Only played the first one and it's expansions

Take your pills Hans Asperger

Dota nails it pretty much.
It's what CS and Quake are for the FPS genre.

Is it that game where you have a handful of units representing RPG-like characters with perma-death able to whack you really hard?

Then you didn't miss much. The campaign was so-so and the amount of micro made multiplayer simply tedious. And it was ridden with bugs so hard that if not boredom and frustration over micro your units, then blue screens would definitely made you quit the game for good.

Warcraft 4

AoE2 is still around, which is the only RTS I want to play anyway.

>okay guys, now we will port our original game to Steam and we will deliver updates and maybe make another expansion so you can finally have your Lotus campaign
>ok guys we are close to release, just wait
>oh fug, our only coder left us, ooops
>release in 2017! I guarantee that!
Sometimes it feels like it's karma that fucks with them for that horrible kickstarter

The genre really needs some innovation. There are barely any games getting released and still I feel like every one of them is just a clone of something that we already had before. And then the publishers get surprised that nobody buys their shit, which in turn results in even less RTSs.

I guess the problem is that larger studios are too afraid to take risks. I mean we have cool ideas like Achron that deserve to be fully fleshed out, but no, let's just regurgitate and old RTS, but make it more MOBA so 8 year olds can play it too.

Rise of Legends is a better game in general. Nations was pretty much Civ but RTS form which while it sounds great on paper but in reality no.

Nations has way to much stuff to watch, take care of and even build. Add that you get a new resource everytime you era up makes planing a bitch too. It requires way to much managing and doesn't play as smooth specially once you have more than 3 cities.

Legends was way better because it cut out a lot of the useless bulk.

That's my point. They are no longer for actually defending. Towers and specially Castles in AoE2 are strong as hell and require you to plan around taking them out. They are actually good at defending your base.

SC2 defenses just bark instead of bite. You pretty much have zero defenses meaning that even the smallest raid will do massive damage.

I've played some of Empire at War, and honestly Galactic Battlegrounds is much more enjoyable. Much like AoEII, it has very high comfy potential, and I'm a sucker for the sprites.

WC4 needs to be put on the backburner until they fire every single person involved with SC2's plot

>Towers and specially Castles in AoE2 are strong as hell and require you to plan around taking them out.

>Towers
>strong

I dont think you have played a lot of aoe2
If i ever play a 1on1 and see the other guy build more than 1 tower, i know for sure he is a shitnoob who wasted ressources on an ineffective defense.

Also until castle age they dont even have murder holes and you can just run near them.

Maybe a rethink what RTS really is and move away from the same old build base shit out units.

which i've found boring after a while.

Its rts.

See all those parts? You use them to contruct your units.

Honestly, AOE Towers seem really weak, and get taken out by trebs and siege. Castles are cool, but they use up a ton of resources.

Honestly, if you want strong as fuck point defenses, Supreme Commander is the first thing that comes to mind. T2 and T3 PD is absurd.

But some games did that, like DoW2 for example.

but it was a bit khack

But that's still my point. They still are pretty good at locking down a point you need and you still need to focus on taking them down before you focus on anything else either it be getting in to their dead zone or building specialized units to take them down.

Unlike in SC2 where you can generally ignore them cause they are so weak and pointless that an entire wall of photon canons still have a hard time taking down a single zergling.

>I only played AoE2
Here, FTFY

Kind of Earth 2150?

I must have missed your point then. Yeah, that's true. Forcing your opponent to play in a particular way is generally a pretty good thing.

You do need to have counterforces to destroy siege near your castles/towers in AOE though.

About the same era. Modular design 3d maps indirect fire artillery and sensors direct fire weapons all going from early game machine guns to gauss cannons, plasma and Laser AA. Only issue is Vtol can't really fight one another too well but the right AA can bring the fuckers down. Also the campaign is fucking evil. It's beautiful. Also available on Playstation 1

Modular design units I meant. Sorry about that

Its also free and open source and still patched.

wz2100.net/

Anyone else think that RTS games have been doing okay the past two years? We've gotten:
>Homeworld Remastered
>Cossacks 3
>Total War: Warhammer
>Battlefleet Gothic: Armada
>Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak
>New Age of Mythology Expansion
>New Planetary Annihilation Expansion
>God only knows how many expacs for Company of Heroes 2

Like personally I've pretty content for a while now.

...

Remasters dont count.

Most games lack a real SP campaign. Its mostly skirmish campaigns.

I'm not even sure what that image is meant to convey in this context, Mr. Barbosa.

walls in age of mythology were so fucking satisfying to upgrade

The Age of Empires 2 expansion?

I never played 'em before so they count as far as I'm concerned.
>Most games lack a real SP campaign. Its mostly skirmish campaigns.
Yeah, that does sorta blow - but I mostly play vs AI or in 2v2s with friends so it's not a big deal to me.

I will admit though, one of the main reasons I'm still looking forward to Dawn of War 3 is that the campaign should hopefully be fairly meaty.

Leave it dead, RTS games suck

What you do is you make a new version of Generals Zero Hour Shockwave with a few new well-fleshed-out factions.

And put it on steam and make it highly modifiable
Also the multiplayer needs to FUN and also work well.
And singleplayer should allow people to turtle to hell and back and design their bases to their hearts content.

And the voice acting for the units needs to be Deus Ex-tier ham/silly.

Oh, right, forgot that only came out last year. Feels way older for some reason.

Walls are very important.

Age of Mythology did walls really well, just do that.

How do we make any rts that isn't AYO HOL UP HD REMASTER and still sell?
I swear you fags never buy those new rts that's why they are dying.

It needs to be easy to get into but very difficult to master.

This, RTS puts off a lot of casual players because there is a massive learning curve, thats why games like Dota are more popular (easier to jump in and play, but difficult to master the game fully).
RTS is a formula you cant tamper with too much, by making it too easy to play you essentially ruin it.

>playing on hard
>trying to get all the medals
I want to punch whoever designed this mission

3/10

rise of nations is the best RTS to date

What's a too easy RTS supposed to be?

Those are all SHIT.

Act of Aggression and Wargame are the only decent, 6/10 maybe.

That's just, like, your opinion man

you act like RTS is too hard while games like stellaris sell better than they ever did.

Nigga, the reason for mediocre sales are mediocre fucking games

if someone developed an equivalent to warcraft 3 in nice modern graphics with full modability and shit and custom maps and LAN-games and what not people would surely buy it.

>Homeworld and Cossacks
>Shit

Underage pls go and stay go

> The genre really needs some innovation.
Whenever there's innovation, it sells even less.

SC2 is an anomaly.. a Blizzard IP.

COH2 has a consistent 5k active on Steamcharts. I'm not sure we have fighting game stats.

>homeworld remastered

shallow as fuck

>cossacks 3

cossacks 2 is literally the same game and better at what it does, plus same bugs but more community patches

>total war: warhammer

I don't buy CA games since shogun 2

>battlefleet gothic: armada

lol

>homeworld: Deserts of Kharak

multiplayer-cheating: the game
campagin is not worth playing

>Planetary Annihilation

more like fps-annihilation amirite?

>age of mythology

nice meme

>company of heroes 2
>god knows how many DLCs

> shallow as fuck
It was fixed.

>more dick
>more vagina
>more love
>more snu snu
>less weapons of mass destruction
>less war

you know this to be true

>Nobody ever mentions War for the Overworld when they list all the recent RTS.

>I don't and have never actively played any of these games, but boy howdy I'll regurgitate whatever negative opinions I've seen people share about them on Cred Forums: The Post

kk m8

Dungeon keeper and the like aren't really considered RTSs

Brood war remake exactly the same just better graphics. Blizzard hates money I swear

That's because it's shit.

It makes the same mistake that any dungeon keeper clone makes, it copies Dungeon Keeper 2 rather than the first one. So it inherently ends up being terrible.

Plus it's terribly designed, all of the creatures are stupid, the missions are overly linear and a lot of them are terribly balanced.

It's very clear when playing it that the developers didn't play Dungeon Keeper 1 past the 11th level nor the Deeper Dungeons expansion pack.

Breed a race of super humans

We reroll the Real Life before year 2007.

SF5 has 1k active on steamcharts.

We dont know console numbers.
But even if we assume console numbers are five times as high, the most popular fighting game barely equals COH2 in playerbase.

And if you say SC2 is an anomaly, then SF5 is an anomaly too, because every other fighting game doesnt even have 1/10 of SF players.

You know what was fun? When they had just implemented multiple turrets and every body could have two turrets.

how do you call something like an RTS focused on surviving waves of enemies attacks, like dwarve fortress?

dwarf fortress is a roguelike and management simulation

2007 truly was the year it all went to shit. I also believe the Orange Box came out around that year as well with TF2 and of course Portal. TF2 is the literal granddaddy to the f2p FPS genre.

anybody that has this game and wants to play together?

gas the retarded c&c fags

yeah, but I dream of making a startship troopers RTS where you defend your fortress from enemy bugs waves.

Where are quality pc exclusive games then?

I think Wargame is going to be buried, do you even know the game?

Theres one ST RTS i think it was shit

also W3 custom maps

youtube.com/watch?v=C0r9PgQCQsk
youtube.com/watch?v=aWiRo1n5Zw4
youtube.com/watch?v=ZHmIOzUFP2c

There was a starship troopers rtt

It was at best average

Traditional RTS are dead, let it go

...

I always wish for a mod that combines Duno 2000, red alert 2, tiberium sun, and seventh legion

>tfw no Battle Realms 2

those look like crap.

I was learning pixel art and programming.
maybe some day I'll make it.

Get the fanbase to be hyped for a new game instead of just wanting to play 15 year old games.

What was the last RTS you played? Mine was Desert of Kharak

You should go play DK1 again. It's ludicrously unbalanced but in the opposite way. It's disgustingly easy and the heroes are all woefully underlevelled.

No platform has qualify exclusives anymore.

>an RTS focused on surviving waves of enemies attacks
store.steampowered.com/app/73020/

You'll get brutally fucked, especially in the DLC's.

...

You disgust me

But he is right

also TW warhammer isnt an RTS

>But he is right
No he isn't
>also TW warhammer isnt an RTS
Singleplayer ain't but online most certainly is.

>Act of Aggression
>decent

>consoles
>MOBAS
>ADHD
>on a basic level RTS gameplay, i.e managing dozens of things in real time, is far too difficult for the modern audience

We can't, it's over until the entire industry crashes and burns.

He is and

>No base building
>No resources
>nothng
its RTT not RTS and thats the multiplayer the single palyer is turn based strategy

with that alone you demonstrated you know nothing

why do you even reply?

dota 2 is way harder to learn than any RTS is

Rise of nations. soooooo goooood
16 player LAN (i think most ive done is 4)
runs perfect on half a toaster
real countries
real landmarks
progress from sticks and stones to nukes
naval combat actually usefull

>5x
Blops 3 on PC has like 9k. CoD on a consolehas like 500k.

Design and then release it with single player only.

Add a non-competative (ie no ladder) multiplayer afterwards

while i want to kick your shit

i will present the sequel to rise of nations which is actually terrible
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_Nations:_Rise_of_Legends

bought it. played multiplayer twice today and both of them are halfway because either of us are dced. Dedicated server when?

They're both very simple to learn.

>he values plots more than gameplay

Disgusting.

Going forward, blizzard is only going to have plot as seperate from the game. Just like in overwatch, Hearthstone, and heroes of the storm

>basebuilding and resources
>mandatory for an RTS

hello, underage!

By making it fun.

1. Mandatory second screen minimap feature in all games.
2. Recreate Dawn of War 2 with better graphics.

Starcraft 2 and Company of Heroes already do this pretty well. In SC2 micro is much less important because the units are already really good about being efficient automatically.

RoN was terrible. They essentially ripped off AoE and then added a lot of arbitrary restrictions to try to be strtegic in the end all they managed was to make a game where you can't do anything since everything is super expensive and by the time you are self sufficient meaning you dont have to wait in between making a single unit you end up near pop cap. The concept it was built upon (the world war thing) was neat by they failed at everything

With RoL they dumped the concept and focused on the RTs aspect and they succeeded, it was pretty entertaining

Thats literally what sets RTT and RTS apart

But legends was better.

sure.

steamcommunity.com/id/Zerg_x/

Fucking love 8 bit armies even though it's honestly a pretty shitty game. Can't wait for invaders.

Dawn of War 2 actually does this. It's almost a RTT.

I think if you took the scale of dawn of war 2 and toned down on the amount of tide changing abilities so that it was more a game of positioning, flanking etc it'd be really cool. Basically company of heroes but with melee units and knockdown which both offer a tactical element coh lacks.

this
MOBAs are RTS for the retarded

...

this
most devs fuck up and concentrate on the fucking multiplayer only

RUB YOUR SHOES IN LOTION

because you're blinded by nostalgia
mechanically coh2 is far fucking better than 1, the biggest thing 1 has on it is voice acting
the units are smaller and die fast, not having people in cover is a great way to lose a squad

>I ignore good games because i'm a salty poorfag

Well its only empty assumptions at this point, but i would bet my ass that SF5 is nowhere near COD.
I would almost go as far as saying it never ever has more than 10k.

mi negro

I'VE GOT THE KNOWLEDGE

This is all true

Blows my mind how people could enjoy half a game like a MOBA over a complete one with actual base building and multiple units. Its like enjoying a railed shooter instead of a fully functional FPS.

Its just easier to call these people idiots.

Its the same shit you fucking retard
Yes theyre different but theyre both pretty much the same genre

I kinda wish the RTT meme died for a while and we got automatization in RTS instead.

ANALYZING SCHEMATICS

No they are not you fucking retard

No resource management no anything. Just out micro the other dude

Nah, Supreme Commander:FA is still pretty popular, despite being 100% fan-supported at this point.

Though, I guess it's something between 'basebuilding autism simulator' and 'RTS'. It's still probably the deepest, still-played RTS.

rts and rtt is not the same

I want a proper sequel to SupCom.

look up the difference between tactics and strategy

>ignoring ashes of the singularity

>grey goo
>grey goo faction doesn't eat everything in its way

Why RTS like AoE2, CnC, Cossack, etc are successful in the first place?

All the game have low learning curve, easy to play, comfy, not complicated but hard to master.

In the 90´s and the first half of the 00´s rts was a mainstream genre.

I dont actually know why. But that is how it was.

...

Development costs were lower and the market wasn't saturated yet

RTs didn't die cause people abandoned the genre. They died cause companies stopped making them.

The last ok RTS i have memory off is RA3, well the mechanics were okish

EA kinda killed them when they made CnC generals which started the era of FREE global super powers on cooldown which created a boom of these types of games of which most are terrible since they relied on gimmicks more than strategy

After SC2 failure no one wants to do anything with it

Microsoft killed fucking ensemble and EA killed westwood , the 2 alongside blizzard most important RTS companies there were

And Gas Powered Games killed themselves.

Supcom style strategic zoom should be mandatory in every RTS

WHAT THE FUCK IS WARGAMMING DOING WITH THE TA OR SUPCOM LICENCES

meh that was just Supreme Commander, but worse

We don't know. Like we know absolutely NOTHING what happened to GPG after they were bought by potatoes.

There's still Total War

And DoW 3 soon

And Battlefield Gothic is also an excellent rts

it is ironic when RTS spawn todays mainstream genre and it is called MOBA

is it me or i the only one who classify SC2 as ESport rather than RTS Game?

> And DoW 3 soon
Don't remind me of this atrocity.

>crtl f Empire Earth
>0 results
Get some taste

how many of them are just playing custom games or co op instead of the actual e-sport?

>homeworld
>classic RTS

> just look at Grey Goo and other recent RTS games, but because they all focus WAY to heavily on multiplayer.

Grey goo was just an overall bad/mediocre game. Even the multiplayer wasnt that good.

If anyone would actually release a good rts with high production quality people would actually play it.

The first RTS with an actual 3D-movement.

>sc2 failure

I dont think sc2 failed commercially lol

I like how everyone says this and when relic comes around and does something different people say that the game is a MoBA.

Moba didnt replace RTSs at all. RTs just stopped being made. All the mid and small studios who made them died or were forced to close down since no one thought they would sell millions and the big studios got killed

Thats the end of it

Most people who played Dota also played all RTSs

SC2 is an RTS a very mediocre one if we use the good old ones as the standard. If we go by the average RTS quality SC2 is one of the best ever made

COH2 is far better than CoH1 in every fucking way apart from system requirements and the retarded DLC policy.

>moba safespae
>the genre everyone calls extremely toxic and people are incredibly cruel to eachother
>the genre that is only competitive multiplayer

>CoH1
>bullets are more impactful.
kek.

>RTS's need to be accessible fluff wise (40k, WW2, Modern Day, Star Wars) and they need a company that views RTS as a safe capture of a niche audience.

I think generic historial and generic fantasy works as well.
Just don't go too deep into the fantasy.

Mobas don't even have RPG elements other than the warcraft system which was an actual innovation in the RTS genre.
Your heroes were the centerpiece of your army, but you needed to have an army as well.

To add, CoH2 also received a lot of bad press when it was launched from russians.
Which is funny because Jove is pretty based.
>I haven't played these games
>but I will judge them and think my opinions matter.

what a shitty cashgrab.
The gameplay footage I watched of it really didn't bring anything to the table.

pic related. Consolefags will NEVER EVER watch armies of thousands of men and monsters clash together in glorious bloody battle.
>resource management
you get a fixed amount of gold.
>basebuilding
not necessary for RTSes. Are you going to say homworld or CoH2 are not RTSes as well?

> nobody liked out last few games
> okay I have an idea
> how about
> WE DON"T EVEN TRY

Units in Sc2 are also far less versatile than in CoH2.

>inb4 ostruppen vs high templar.

>That early harass meta is boring as fuck.
Makes me wonder, what are the Timmys, Johnny and Spikes of RTS?

In magic the gathering those three names refer to three different player archetypes.

Timmy likes to play big spells and minions because he likes the feeling of it.
Johnny likes to make creative decks to show how clever he is.
Spike wants to win.
Some rts players refer to broodwar as gookclick.
Deragotary on how it requires high apm.

Some players like that and see it as a physical challenge and skill that is inherent to the game.
I've seen a video talking about how the changes from Starcraft 1 to 2 is how 2 is more about what you bring into the fight, and 1 is more how you control the units in the fight.
In Sc2 the unit pathing is much better, so you don't have to micro them ás much to play optimally, you can control much more units at a time further decreasing the apm need.

Lets call him Dexter, he likes the high apm and sees the dexterity of his fingers as essential.

I think Timmy is still there.
Different Timmys think different thinks are awesome.
One Timmy wants an rts where he can build fleets of battlecruisers, another Timmy wants a horde of orcs overwhelming his opponent.

What other archetypes are there in real time strategy games?
What's the opposite of Dexter?

the hero system is so shitty. levelling up your hero felt like a fucking chore that you had to do otherwise your army was fucked. also wc3 balance was god awful. numbers > everything in that game

theres a reason why vanilla wc3 died so quick

>SC2
>Failure
Its a blizzard game. It won't fail commerically.

In homeworld 1 you did have to build. HoW2 is RTT

In CoH you have buildings but yeah its more of an RTT than RTS

I don't get what is so hard for you to understand

You retarded piece of shit

You are not even giving any arguments to support yourself

>theres a reason why vanilla wc3 died so quick
because an expansion came out after like a year

>Cred Forums says that TW:WH will be shit
>the game is fucking great

how is that classic.
If you are including basebuilding and the isometric view, homeworld isn't classic in anything but age.

whoa homie rise of legends is my jam.
the campaign was fun, the artwork incredible, and it was one of the first games to transition into slot-based building expansion in RTS.

That said, everyone I've played it with says its shit.

we don't, it's fucking garbage

>Fixed amount of gold
All RTTs have some resource mechanic to pop more troops but there s little to nothing in them in terms of what the game revolves around.

Its 99.9% outmicroing the other dude

Theres no way you are arguing this other than you haven't played a single RTS because it means you have no clue how either are played

...

played the BF2142, its slower than modern BF3 and BF4 but is is fun as fuck and i don't know why.

CoH1 and 2 are considered to be RTSes by the market. So is total war. Pull your head out of your resource gathering ass.

Vanilla wc3 is still going strong, especially in china. Also numbers weren't the deciding factor, since orcs were far more tougher at lower levels due to better unit stats and lower number of total units.

I was referring to Homeworld in the non greentext part.

>he thinks Blizzard games can have good gameplay after the release of Starcraft 2 in 2010

>800 average

pretty much this.

Popcap is a much better comparison to total war gold.

the expansions sold less and less tho

What happened to the warcraft 3 modding scene?
I remember small total conversions that changed the game start to come out like demoncraft, but they all disappeared.

1.Make it not about E-Sports
2.No MOBA shit
3.Make it less dependent of autistic micromanaging.
4.Cool campaign.

yes, because it was not a good business model.

SC2 is far easier for a new player to get into, because the mechanics aren't clunky.
The things that make broodwar so incredible to watch at the highest levels of play also make it difficult for new players to actually try and play competitively.

>no moba shit
what does this even mean?

Units gaining experience is now moba shit?
Key units that control the flow of combat is now moba shit?

Kys.

there was a modding scene outside of hacking?
mapping scene is dying with the release of dota 2's custom editor, but people are still playing a lot of games in custom WC3s

>The (((Market)))
>has no arguments to support himself
Kill yourself

Whats more marketeable REAL TIME STRATEGY GAME or shitty reAl TiM3 taCtiCs

Its the same iwth retards labeling any kind of game with stats RPG

Warcraft 3 was far worse than Starcraft because it had hero units.
moba faggot

nooooo. I want to play god tier custom maps again.

Are there any good ones in Dota 2 yet?
I'd like some nice world conquest maps or neat RPGs.

>Kys
>strategy means making huge armies and mashing them together and watch the pretty lights glow

Meanwhile the only other RTS that is alive other than blizzard's new custom game platform is CoH2, while all the classics are gathering dust.

>warcraft 3 started Aeon of strife.

I keep hearing mixed things about dota 2's custom map thing.

On the other hand, it's from Cred Forums so it might be shitposting.
what's it like?

Battlefleet I meant, not field.

>CoH2 also received a lot of bad press when it was launched from russians.
Man, that was a funny shitstorm

Make a good new RTS game.

>Abloobloo, muh nazi game
>Relic shows historical facts like the soviets fucking over the Polish home army or the fact that the reichstag wasn't used since hitler came to power.

The campaign was excellent though. The guys who make stories at relic are pretty great.

>>strategy means making huge armies and mashing them together and watch the pretty lights glow
Thats literally RTT

thats exactly what it is

that what CoH and all the other of like are

Pick a unit roster go outmicro

or collect static resource and spam units

You fucking retard

excellent taste
I'd hesitate to call it an excellent example of the genre though

and what constitutes of strategy you imbecile?

>chinese turn into russians
>good taste.
a novel concept though, although RoN executed it better.

SEE

you didn't play a single RTT or RTS

KILL YOURSELF

WC3 meta is very interesting right now. In many ways its the exact opposite of everything you hate about SC2. You cannot really cheese rush and win due to huge health pools and slower pace preventing any early shut downs. Instead its about building up advantages and stealing enemies leads slowly over time until an army is amassed. Combat is slower but each unit more important so managing each unit individually is very important.

Lotr maps were so good in broodwar and in wc3.

>Units gaining experience is now moba shit?
Warlords Battlecry 3 is my favourite moba

oh fuck off.
Define strategy in terms of a fast paced real time game. It's just all tactics.

>he doesn't like to play hard carry brit sniper in the hit EA MoBA, Command and Conquer 2.
dude, do you see what he does to creeps when he levels up?

You are asking the equivalent to why water is different from air or something completely retarded like that

Kill yourself

who want to join me and eradicate the slavs?

>you were too young to miss the BW maps
>you had an internet connection right in time when the warcraft 3 map scene was flowering.

All those saturday mornings. gone. Like tears in rain.

>See RTS is all about strategy, which is why these RTS games aren't RTSes at all, despite them being functionally similar to RTS games in nearly every way whatsoever.

How about you define what strategy is in the scope of an RTS game, or you fuck off.

so, 8-Bit Armies/Hordes is on sale, and I wanna get some opinions on them before I buy.

I heard before that they're super simplistic, but honestly what's put me off RTS over the past 10 years is how it feels like there's a competency requirement before you start having fun, and fun is restricted to being competitive. I just want an RTS game with a nice decent length campaign and skirmish mode where I can compstomp with simple but satisfying classic RTS gameplay. If I play online, I don't want to feel like I have to watch tutorial videos online of X build to be optimal.

Im not going to do that

if you played the games you would know but you havent touched a single one

KILL YOURSELF

>Polish
>slavs

DAE you only control one unit how can that be hard? XD XD XD
i held the same opinion when I was 14 and the first dota was just getting popular.
you sound like some grandma, dota 2 is mainly played by asians, slavs & hispanics, so the "safespace generation" argument doesn't stand nigger. dota is HARD AS FUCK.

>dota is HARD AS FUCK.

I played most RTS bar stiff like X
Cossacks and all that and I find RTT and RTS as a pretty arbitrary term when games can easily contain characteristics found in both supposed requirements to be called one over the other

pubs dota are EASY. The COMPETITIVE are the HARD one, just like any other competitive games.

meant to reply to this faggot

Cry more.

>I am not going to define this fundamental quality that makes the genres as different as air and water.

it doesn't have a campaign.
Its literally 8bit Red alert 1.

>pubs dota are easy
whatever makes you sleep at night, dear 9k mrr redditor

Why....

*mmr
t. retard who never played a game of dota

That makes me so sad that I'm posting seven kingdoms.

I have over 200 hours in HoN , i got burnt out and now its all trash to me.

YOU HAVENT TOUCHED A SINGLE ONE

GIVE UP

>played
>asks those retarded questions
Pick one

>esports that aren't grown by the community
>healthy in any way whatsoever.
RTS became more comfy when the esports shitters moved on to mobas because it allowed people to play the games for fun.

And lo and behold. even a niche game like CoH2 that was plagued by terrible DLC schemes had a successful esport tournament because it was made by the community.

>War for the Overworld
>Particle Fleet: Emergence
>Cossacks 3
It's healthy and well, you mega casual pleb.

Im not that guy btw.

Oh fuck off retard.
If you can't define strategy in a real time environment, you should be the one who should off himself.

>Pls tell me
>if u nao answer it means you can't
>Didn't deny he hasn't played a single game
KILL YOURSELF

Has anyone destroyed one of hte undead bases on march of the scourge?

Just a week ago or so I decided to replay that mission on hard and try to get one base down.
Beat the mission no problem, but I failed to push into the green base.

Thinking about trying it on easy first.

Empire Earth kinda.

And by god I ever get to another LAN and we play AoE2 with a stupid "no attacks allowed in the first 20 minutes" rule I'll strangle a chicken.

it says on the steam page there's a 25 mission campaign tho

>>War for the Overworld
One of the two games I've bought this year.
Expansion campaign was kinda short, but the first mission was very funny.
Mandalf the Maroon

Is there a way to play sc1 in Windows 10 without fuckery

Also, is battle net still open for sc1 ? It is for wc3 but no one seems to play, no custom games and queue didn't work to find a match.

Need help remembering an RTS from around 2000

It was 2D and isometric. Units came in groups of 4 I think. It was a high fantasy setting.

The main hero had two swords and always said something like "By the light of the creator". Units were really, really tough

You only liked the expansion? I'm having a blast with the base game.

I have my own ideas, but Its enjoyable watching you flail around and try and explain the difference between an RTS and an RTT based on multiplayer matches.

here's a hint. Close combat is an RTT game, not an RTS. CoH is an RTS game, not an RTT.

hey me too bud
wasn't Wretched Hag simply the best?

it's not a narrative campaign, more like
>do these many missions to get a gold star

>tfw DoW3 is trash

>Game isn't out yet
>trash.
ebin.

>literally didn't deny he hasn't played a single game
>keeps repating the same inane babble
>i was just pretending

KILL YOURSELF

I don't really mind about any narrative so long as there's fun mission objectives

user... there's a million games up

Juts like the other 2 games!

Yeah, because games that look like shit turn out well very often...

>being this mad that he doesn't have a working defintion for the term strategy
>claiming that others don't play the games.

in that case go for it.

>no dota spam
it's a miracle

Make a new Battlezone

I actually adore all the other games.

yeah, just look at Total warhammer.

also
>judging a game by it's looks and not gameplay.

Most of those are empty bot hosted games. I joined like 20 and all were bot hosted and empty.

Join some and tell me what you think?

>footman wars
want

>STill doesn't deny he hasnt touched a single game
>asks retarded questions anyone who has played a single RTS and RTT can answer
>Keeps spouting nonesense and retarded shit
>if you can't answer you dont know
>again

Kill yourself already

full as fuck dud

>Man, time to bait for some (you)s!

>yeah, just look at Total warhammer.
Looked fantastic from the start.

Man my shit was busted then

Thanks for posting man I will try some :)

It's also unbalanced as fuck.

I actually have played several RTS games and RTT games like men of war, Company of heroes, Homeworld, close combat, rise of nations, empire earth., the starcraft series, the warcraft series and every total war except shogun 1.

I like how you are unable to answer it and are using babby tier rhetoric to build up support.

You are the one who doesn't have an idea of what strategy means and how it is applied in a real time environment like an RTS game.

I asked you a question and you sperged out instead of answering it.

It's alright user. there is no shame in being ignorant.

They might as fucking well be, you capture shit and control dudes. Its like arguing 3rd person vs first person. Its still a fucking shooter

No I liked the base game too.

this one's gon b good

>Defending the RNG infested mirrored factions, anti rush one shot defenses 8 something squads for a gigantic map , upgrades out of nowhere
>Mess that are all DoW games

and three quarters of a million of empty games.

ghost games made wc3 custom scene almost as bad as the sc2 custom scene.

>the trailer is released
>the leaked footage for 6 seconds from e3 is released
>Cred Forums comes to the expert conclusion that the game is shit because charges aren't working in a pre alpha build.

>3rd person is a shooter

you dont

YOU FUCKING DIDNT PLAY THEM

Keep pasting whatever you googled

>Keeps insiting on the same kiddy shit tactic
KILL YOURSELF

even this obscure russian one had people

>why isn't a game that is about giant superhuman soldiers fighting space elves have a supply line system that doesn't satiate my autism?
Also,
>RNG, necessarily evil.

>it's an user knows more about my videogame hobbies than me episode.

Alright, since you can read my mind, how many fingers am I holding up?

As if that would matter. People just need to play a game.

From Steam:

1. You could copy and paste units in campaign and multiplayer
2. You could move buildings with the num pad
3. You could change which player you were and control the other team with the num pad
4. Upon selecting your workers at the start of the game, sometimes (like 25% of the time) they would all die and you lose
5. You could press P and get an instant build menu for buildings
6. Several music tracks would play at the same time and overlap
7. Often units shoot at buildings and do zero damage
8. You would not longer be able to box select after attempting to build a wall (for the rest of that game)
9. You could not close lobby seats, kick players, select an AI for a seat, or password protect lobbies
10. It is possible to spawn in the water and you can't issues commands to workers because they are just stuck
11. Fishing boats sometimes do not move from where they spawn
12. If a fishing boat is stuck at spawn, you cannot build more boats from that dock ever again
13. Archers are not single target. An arrow strike all overlapping units where they land (small aoe on every shot)
14. If a host leaves a multiplayer game, the game ends for everyone with a disconnected message
15. Typing in all chat in multiplayer games is bugged. Not every letter registers and you need to type letter by letter, making sure each goes through, sometimes pressing them 2 or 3 times
16. Multiple campaign missions have broken triggers or objectives, which means they cannot be completed

>Defending shit game mechanics
>Unconditional RNG
>Like in W3/Dota its either an ability that gives evasion or highground
>In Read alert/CnC missles could miss but you could see the projectiles flying
>In Dow everything magically miss to satiate the retarded autist of the owner of Games workshop who shouldn't fucking put their hands on shit he doesn't understand

>This game has these different races
>all the units have copy pasted mechanics
Fucking retard. I bet you are hte same who keeps asking the difference betwene the genres

You fucking wouldn't be asking those questions if you had played any

I don't know how my fingers are up your ass nor i want to know

kill yourself

looks better than DoW2 did so far, and DoW2 didn't even really get any good until retribution.

Love WftO. Anyone who says it's bad are shit posters. Best Keeper game yet.

that's the point.
SC2 was a failure from the esport perspective because the attention quickly shifted to MOBAs. It was a financial success because it was a blizzard game, and was highly polished from a singleplayer perspective and offered co-op play.

Fuck the RTS genre. I hope it stays dead.

Literally every RTS game ever is just rush rush rush rush, a competition to see who rushes better.

Worst fucking genre.

Retard who never played a hard game

>dying to rush strats

>MOBAs are too easy
>SC2 is too mechanically taxing

You guys want something inbetween or what?

The problem with SC2 being mechanically taxing is that you have to do the most inane shit like use inject larva and mules. Theres so little room for the player it comes down to who can do shit faster

>unconditional RNG
nice meme lad.

The entire game was based around percentage chances and units missing their shots. You take a core gameplay feature of the RTS and because it doesn't satiate your autistic pre packaged definition of what an RTS is, (that you still can't define) you automatically declare the game to be terrible.

Guess what cupcake, every round doesn't hit in combat. Soldiers miss their shots and which is why suppressive fire is so important. Dawn of war had a morale system that rendered units useless in a fight without killing them outright, as happens in real combat. It added a lot of depth to the game because you weren't just fighting for resource points, but also for advantageous terrain to win skirmishes and battles.
It set itself apart from every other C&C clone or Starcaft wannabe by having a far more dynamic combat system where a unit's ability to hit mattered far more than the unit's raw stats.

SC2 removes QoL changes to raise the skill floor artificially.

You spend less time strategizing, and more time bashing your keyboard.

why so mad son?

Did an RTT player steal your RTS waifu?

>Allegedly strategy game
>WITH MIRRORED FACTIONS
>Game is decided by who gets luckier

>If it references something in real life it means its deep
>shit mechanic that arbitrarily takes away the control over the unit so that you have incentive to do WHAT YOU DO IN LITERAL ALL OTHER RTSS (micro away not to lose value)

>DoW
>CnC clone
KILL YOURSELF
Literally
KILL YOURSELF

Depending on the game it can be really hard to counter a rusher who knows what he is doing. Even if you're good at the game.

>How to revive RTS
>99% of the posts are made by the same 2 retards who haven't played a single game not even talking about RTS
>3rd person shooters and 1st person are the same
KILL YOURSELVES

I'd say WTFO is hot trash, but it wasn't popular so that makes it just trash. They really shouldn't have advertised it as a dungeon keeper game.

>I watch two or three games casted on various channels every day.

You are part of the problem.

I think this is part of the reason why RTS is dead.

None of you guys can agree on what's good or bad. Everybody is too fixated on their ideal if what an RTS ought to be that in the end few are satisfied in an already niche audience.

I said DoW stood apart from C&C clones. If you are unable to read, I am sorry for you.

Perhaps you should play RPGs

>making portions of the map have more value other than mining spots is a sht mechanic.
>forcing players to actually adapt to changes on the fly is a shit mechanic.

Ah, no wonder RTS is a dying genre then. Now you just keep telling me to kill myself and I will keep playing RTS games like Dawn of war and Company of heroes :^)

hey, I AoE and CoH are great RTS games, but that cater to different crowds of people.

The other guy thinks that anything that has dice rolls is automatically inferior because he has a definition of RTS games he cannot articulate properly.

this
focus on building cities and armies instead of "heroes"

OG SC

Its clunky as fuck though, especially when compared to C&C2

xd

>None of you can agree
Look at the fucking RTSss everyone likes the old ones not the ones only praised by shills

>I have shit taste
>Ill just keep eating shit
> :^)
Woa you sure showed me

Even without those two guys I feel like vocal RTSfags are very entrenched in their preferences and clouded by their own wants that they resent variations as casual/oudated whatever.

There exists RTS where you can win by mastery of your craft alone. In Sins of a Solar Empire, by investing in Culture or in Diplomacy you can win without building any capital ships and without or only a handful of frigates.

if old RTSes are so perfect, why are their clones dead in the water and the only ones being played are the ones that did things differently?

>Dow
>Coh
>alive

And they are dead cause the cunts who have the right to them don't want them to be made and a good chunk of everything that did come out is corporate crap trying to cash on esports

I like keeping an open mind when it comes to RTS games.

I like CoH and Dawn of war that did things differently from the dune derived rts games or the C&C ones by incorporating dice rolls in combat that felt natural.

CoH took it a bit farther with more sophisticated armor mechanics, and CoH2 and DoW2 branched off from there on two different philosophies.

It' s a fascinating thing to compare and contrast. There is a reason why CoH1 is the second best received RTSes of all time from a variety of critics.

>There is a reason why CoH1 is the second best received RTSes of all time from a variety of critics.
KEK

>writing this shit
>On this website
KEK

Nice buzzwords.

Meanwhile Grey goo has how many players online?

>appealing to the crowd.

what game is this? google failed on the search

Gray goo tried to be Starcraft o scrap that i dont even know but everyone knew it wasn't going to do well by just looking at it.

Also

>My games arent dead cause that game you didn't even mention is dead!

what?

Combine RTS with persistent-world MMORPG. Also add customizable buildings and severely limit the number of each player's population (so they can't build a huge empire by themselves), something like a 5~10 max population by player should do the trick.

That was a project ex westwood was going to make and it got canned

There were multiple games like these but in all of them always the same happens, the dude who started first farm the weaker players until the difference is so big no one can do anything

Google browser based MMORTS albeit there were others with clients

grey goo tried to be another C&C game. It was riding on a wave of nostalgia because it was made by former westwood employees who had coalesced to form petroglyph. Everything from mechanics to UI was based off command and conquer and the game was a damp squib.

CoH2 is still going strong seeing as relic was able to fund a tournament based off selling cosmetic items.

But I am sure that you will come up with hot new evidence that CoH2 is actually dead and C&C is still going strong with all it's official support.

so like second life but with 5 lives?

or just make growth reflect real world values
caps are poopy

>grey goo tried to be another C&C game. It was riding on a wave of nostalgia because it was made by former westwood employees who had coalesced to form petroglyph. Everything from mechanics to UI was based off command and conquer and the game was a damp squib.
>Rolling moving alien blob
>CnC
>HUman faction were literally terrans
>CnC

If anything it was universe at war and CoH is fucking dead

and theres that shit again

>my game isn't dead cause one old as fuck game is dead

The thing with persistent MMORTSes would be that everyone would play it safe. It would mean an extremely stale metagame.

similar is not the same

>CoH is fucking dead
>war paints tourney just concluded and it was crowdfunded.
alright.

The grey goo had different faction designs, but it's core gameplay was still the same as C&C.

Just like CoH1 and CoH2 have the same core gameplay. Or starcraft 1 and starcraft 2.

Meanwhile DoW1 and 2 have vastly different gameplay styles.

>MOVING BLOB OF ALIEN SHIT FACTOPm
>2 RESOURCES
>Starcraft like units
>CnC
>DoW/CoH
>different
no they aren't. They are the exact same repackaged casual friendly garbage
>CoH is never heard of anywhere but these threads cause you are a shill nothing else
>is alive
Even SC2 is more alive

But what the guy fails to understand is that CoH and dawn of war were accepted as RTS games by the communities that played them, the people that professionally reviewed them and the people that made them.

It must be quite the marketing gimmick that even the people who play it after the game is old still consider it to be an RTS game and we are discussing it in this thread about RTS games right now.

>game has 2 resources
>and asymmetric faction design
>therefore it's starcraft.
thats flawless logic right there.

I like how the game that incorporates more mechanics is the one that is casual friendly garbage while the game that is clunkier is the hardcore game.

Really makes me think.

>Everyone calls Dark souls and RPG when its clearly hack n slash
>therefore Dark souls is an RPG
KILL YOURSELF

Valve literally pushed calling Dota an ARTS and retards call it that but the term was coined long ago by actual ARTss

>B-but valve and the retards know better!

>Quotes shit that was not written
>Retarded casual mechanics that have no depth
>make a game competitive

Why the fuck don't you make a relic games shill thread instead of ruining RTSs threads?

ah so the community that plays the game actively knows less than some autismo on Cred Forums.

Good to know. Maybe we should ask the autists on Cred Forums to classify games according to their super special snowflake status.

>Dota 2
you mean the genre that everyone calls MOBAs that riot coined because the original name was Dota clone?

Anyone have the chart?

GIVE ME SUPCOM: WARHAMMER 40K

PLEASE

>CoH and dawn of war were accepted as RTS games
Is almost like they have what defines a RTS in their mechanics or something

Dear lord that looks comfy.

>mechanics that have no actual depth.
>meanwhile units that have terrible pathfinding forcing you to fight against the game add depth to the game.

Why don't you make a thread named
>RTS GAMES but no Relic entertainment allowed because I don't like their games
instead?

>Gets told valve and dota community calls the fucking game ARTS and its wrong
>Every retard who plays dark souls and the developers call it an RPG
>its literally not
>HUR DUR COMMUNITIES CAN BE NO WRONG
O so if its a dude but everyone call it a girl then its a girl

Kill yourself and go back to tumblr

It's pretty easy to fix the issue: have a "king-type" character that is your in-game avatar, pretty much like kings in AoE II, and then have this character die of old age after a year (or earlier, if nobody kills him).
After you die, your empire becomes NPC-controlled and free to be conquered by someone else.

If players don't like the idea of losing all their progress, you could create a new map for the "dead" players, so they can keep playing as skeleton there and keep their shit forever, but away from newer players.

5~10 was just a suggestion, maybe 20 might be a better cap.
If population cap is no good, how about having a initial fixed amount of NPCs in the world that grows at an exogenous rate, then players have to work their way out to convince these NPCs to join them.

No, according to our resident RTS expert, they are actually not RTS games and unfit for discussion in the hallowed company of games like
>grey goo
>8 bit armies
>Homeworld: DOK

I think you are projecting pretty damn hard here.

coh and dow are rts

after 15 years how could they fuck up even more

why don't you take your own advice and go to tumblr instead?
you can make a
>Relic is not an RTS dev
page there.

Studio boss fired all the devs after the last Stalker game.

>Claims RoN is terrible
>Lists reasons why he just sucked at the game

Easy difficulty players must go

I want a new game similar to Original War but with more vehicle types and weapons. Having planes and/or helicopters would be cool.

Also does anyone here ever play Original War online? I've never seen anyone on it and the Steam groups never have anyone in chat.

I was planning to but from what I heard it's kind of broken and pretty unfinished, even though they worked on it for over 3 years by the time it released. Shame too because I like GSC and want to support them but I'm not going to get the game until it's actually finished.

yes, that is entirely my point.
the other guy believes that they are shitty RTSes because they don't go by his arbitrary definitions of what an RTS is supposed to be. Everyone else sees it as an RTS, which is why we are discussing those games here.

There are several, Empire at War was a pretty fun Total War/RTS hybrid

All of the mmorts I've seen seemed pretty poor as RTS games by itself, I've never seen one that plays like AoE II, for example, most look like poor man's civilization with tons o p2w crap to get resources faster.

They are rts. They just focus more on unit micro and less on base building.

The SP of dow 2 is rtt/rpg hybrid.

>new resource everytime you era up
>Stone after Classical and Oil after Industrial

nigga what

>broken pathfinding is what makes games deep
>microing is the only aspect of RTSs
Kill yourself

>thread about rts
>literaly cancer retard who hasn't played a single video game
>defends shit game by not talking about them but accusing other games of being shitter than them!
Why don't you fucking kill yourself

O yes people who play a persistent world game would love to have their progress erased!

In many of the browser based games there are apocalypse like events when they do a server wipe and usually handle prizes to the top 10 players or some shit. Not even the entire server combined can do shit against them

Neither dow OR CoH are fucking RTSS, you can technically say they are but there are no build orders or anything its fucking RTT at core and play like fucking RTTs theres no macro decisions at all.

>My own retarded definition is valid because i have no fucking arguments! All these people say so but have no arguments either because i would quote those arguments if they exist! Video game journalist and the marketing deparment know better than some dude who palyed a fuckload of games!

of course its p2w crap, thats what browser games are albeit not always were

yeah. I agree with that. DoW2 multiplayer is just CoH 1.5 in terms of mechanics.

>stone
ITS METAL

>lol
>nice meme
You call these reasons for games being shit?
Are you autistic?

Shutup Marie

...

>dem aoe2 japanese towers
youtube.com/watch?v=1ByMd8IXAHI

After you win a match in any RTS, your progress is erased, so why should it bother people so much in a mmorts? A world being persistent doesn't mean you have to play it forever anyway.

I'd totally play an AoE II-like mmorts without p2w where your "king" lasts 1~2 months or something.

>>Total War: Warhammer
Total war isn't an rts.

>Why people who play in a MMO hate to see their progress ereased

I like how you project that I haven't played a single RTS but you have no proof of that, instead frothing at the mouth like a rabid lunatic and projecting your views of an ideal strawman on to me.

>macro decisions aren't present because my workers aren't mining minerals/vespene/ore/(insert resource name here).

The macro decisions that you make are your army composition CoH has your manpower inversely proportional to the number of soldiers you can field. Unit's special abilities are determined by the number of secondary resources you control by actively holding territory on the game map. There is a tertiary resource that is important to tech up and to acquire higher tier units from.

reducing your opponent's resource income is a crucial part of the game, along with capping victory points. Absence of fuel means you cannot tech up. Absence of munitions means that your units are often combat ineffective because they cannot use their special abilities.

Dawn of war 1 was even more like a classic RTS in that sense because the only resources you had in the game were resource 1 and 2. Only, the difference was you gained those resources by holding points on the map instead of building a base and assigning workers to mine it and take it to the town center.

If your definition of RTS depends upon controlling resources to win the battle, then Dawn of war and Company of heroes are absolutely RTS games. If your definition of RTS is basebuilding and resource extraction via workers, then I suppose they are not.

>did i fit yet gsdgshserjhetjrykj

>The macro decisions that you make are your army composition CoH has your manpower inversely proportional to the number of soldiers you can field. Unit's special abilities are determined by the number of secondary resources you control by actively holding territory on the game map. There is a tertiary resource that is important to tech up and to acquire higher tier units from.
EXACTLY

THERES NOTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE ARMY ITSELF

SEE YOU AGREE WITH ME

what?
Resource extraction is different in CoH than in starcraft. The armies are the main focus of the game.

Yep. The story is that you have a group of people who were sent back in time so you only have access to those people, but other people arrive at points in the story, and you can't spawn units like in other RTS games. Some missions too have you take only 5-10 people with you to do them. And the characters have permadeath.

It helps with the blob complaint some people have about RTS games. I haven't played multiplayer yet but from what I've seen you and your opponent choose a certain amount of characters and decide their levels and then use them to play against each other.

The sides are also somewhat asymmetrical with different factions having different available tech. The Russians for instance have certain time manipulation tech like rockets that when they explode slow down the part of the map they exploded on.

The game is also constantly being updated because the company that made it gave the source code to a fan to maintain it.

>its an rts with no walls or gates

in both the games I mean. The guy controlling less resources in starcaft loses. It's the same in Company of heroes 2.

>the most famous RTS of them all doesn't have it.

CLASH OF CLANS YAYYY

But the most famous RTS is Age of Empires 2

No that just happens in fucking shit games like CoH

THats one of the main reason to why those games are fucking garbage. Both players can do the same but the moment one gets slightly ahead it snowball until he fucking wins. the other player can only delay the inevitable all with shitty game mechanics which are designed to only DRAG the game punishing the dude which is ahead for no reason at all other than the game would be over in 5 minutes

is it?
Korea's obsession with BW propelled it into the international stage pretty fast.
Mike morhaime got the key to seoul from their mayor I think.

RTS of viruses, bacterias and bacterias inside the human body.

I am sure you will explain what you just said in better detail.

I'm playing around in the wc3 editor atm.

So in wc2 the alliance have high elf archer as their ranged unit, in wc3 they have dwarven rifleman.

I'm currently thinking of what a dwarven, wildhammer, gnomish and elven alternatives to the human knight in wc3 could've been.

Thinking a heavy melee unit, not necessarily cavalry.

Thoughts?

Currently consider Arcane Golem, Elven Knight and Hawkstrider Cavalry as an elven alternative.

Some kind of mech, maybe a Crowd Pummeler as a gnomish alternative. Spider Tank maybe.

Wildhammer, maybe a Berserker, or a Ram Rider.

Ironforge Dwarf, a Tank made for fighting units instead of buildings, a Ram Rider, or a heavily armored dwarven soldier.

HUUUUHUHHHH YOU WATCH PROFFESIONAL CHESS GAMES PLAYED BY THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD HUHUHUHUHHUHUUUUU

YOU ARE THE REASON CHESS IS DYING HUHUHUHUHUH

Should probably add that as a column to the sheet:

SC doesn't have specific wall buildings but walling is a huge part of it.

keep the cavalry human based.
Arcane golem for the elf
Berserker for the wildhammer
tank for the IF

Do you have a download for this so I could maybe edit it myself?

yes, I know that. The user didn't say
>game has structures that function like walls and gates but are different.

>i sure hope you give me shit to write about shit i dont know cause i didn't play the games!
KILL YOURSELF

Everything you say keep making shit worse

Snowballing is a worse issue in most RTSes because at some point no amount of unit control can overcome an economic advantage. SC2 is the most extreme example of this.

In that sense DoW2 is a lot bettet than CoH because resources are even less depedent on map control thus snowballs are less of an issue.

>one player gets slightly ahead he snowballs and wins
What?
Do you even play the game?

Yes it's slower paced than starcraft, because the emphasis is on preserving individual units instead of throwing them like in starcraft.

Having a resource advantage often turns into a trap because you have to stretch your forces far more thinly to actually defend the resource you just acquired.

SC2 is an extreme example cause its extreme rock paper sissor garbage and you cna a click to win

>DoW is better cause no matter what you do youll end up the same as your opponent

KILL YOURSELF

>KILL YOURSELF
make me.
Here is my rebuttal.

Things people liked about RTS in the 90s

>large tech trees
>complex economy
>autism soothing base building
>great single player and balanced multiplayer
>great music
>large assortment of units
>LAN

Most of the new RTS have these huge gimmicks which are really fun, or they try really hard to be "old school" and totally miss the point.

Just look at Age of Empires, Starcraft, Warcraft, Command and Conquer, and Rise of Nations, see what made them fun, and duplicate it with additional tech

>THE GAME PUSNIHES THE DUDE WHO IS WINNING TO PREVENT HIM FROM JUST STEAM ROLLING THE OPPONENT WHO FUCKED UP
>BY ADDING RETARDED GARBAGE THAT MAKES THE GAME UNFUN AND ANNOYING FOR NO OTHE RREASON THEY COUDLNT COME UP WITH ANYTHING TO MAKE THE GAME DEEP AND COMPLEX ENABLING OUTPLAYS

O WOW

Kill yourself Already

The premise of the map would be that you put a race into each unit type slot.

So instead of Dwarf Rifleman for the "Ranged" slot, you can get a Gnomish Death Ray, Hammerthrower, Elven Archer or a Human Crossbow.

I'm calling the slot that is currently kept by the human knight the Heavy Melee slot, so I need non human alternatives for that slot as well.

Arcane Golem, berserker, tank, check. Thanks.

By somehow convincing the masses to not buy only Blizzard made RTS. The face that if an RTS game isnt made by blizz means it wont sell is what is hindering the genre. Amazing games like CoH1-2 go unnoticed because of this

> SC2 is the most extreme example of this.

Ahahahahaha
Do you even play SC?

Tech can make a huge economic advantage if there is a tech advantage.

Case in point: Ultralisks absolutely wrech an economically superior bio-only terran.

Zerg Roach/Hydra/Ling gets absolutely decimated by Protoss AoE T3.

Etc etc...

An economic advantage will help in the long run. But if an opponent masses a big army and walks into your base having a good eco won't help you win the battle you need.

So what the fuck do you want?

You hate Relic games for snowballing and when I saw it doesnt you say everything I do doesnt matter so it sucks.

I cant fucking believe that I am getting called to kill myself by a guy whose games I enjoy just as much because I like something he doesn't.

simple
play 0 AD
better yet, help develop it

I can put it up as a google spreadsheet so you can copy and edit as you like.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16DjyLrIE0V5YiU9AHbn_YEffRBEnlS64cqgOg9gbxrE/edit?usp=sharing

Also if you have good additions I can just add them

>GAme is an unbalanced piece of shit and shallow as fuck
>I CANT FUCKING COME UP WITH ANYTHING TO DEFEND THE SHIT GAMES
>HELLPPSPSS
WHY DONT YOU KILL YOURSELF

Pick elements from turn-based games:
>introduce actual strategy that doesn't just rely on fast clicking
>make games much longer, spanning over large periods of time, including long constructions, expansions and migrations
>unlimited resources so you can play literally forever on the same game
>well organized wars and not just random skirmishes
>make trading and alliances count
>fucking proper AI

Takes a while to get there though and I know some races like Toss have a lot easier time burst producing to compensate for lesser macros but the overall vulnerability of workers and multi make the economy very fragile and one small mistake like not noticing a disruptor drop cost dearly

Actual Homeworld remake/sequel by actual good studio actually pushing the genre and technology forward with the whole 3d space thing. Alternatively underwater also works. There was a kinda neat, old isometric RTS game like that, with 2 human and 1 alien faction I think, and you needed stuff like O2 production, silicone, etc.

Basically anything that can build on a really solid series while breaking and establishing new ground in terms of what is technologically possible now. A buncha games recently tried "time" gimmicks in terms of dimension, but just actually incorporating a full z-axis in newtonian space seems fine. Maybe even newtonian acceleration laws.

How do you become actually good at RTSses?

they tried that, and it fell flat on their faces.

>This game doesn't play like starcraft
>try to play it like starcraft
>lose.
>blame the game.

that's some ass backward logic right there.

If you are that far ahead of your enemy you can walk into their base and steamroll it, but concentrating your forces at one point does mean that you will be harassed and lose your victory points. At that time you are racing against the clock trying to blow your enemy's base up while he is destroying your income by sitting on your supply lines.
>starcraft
>combat
>deep
kek.
Oh boy do I love how there is literally no line of sight blockings, or how active abilities are extremely rare for non caster units or the terrain doesn't actually change dynamically as you keep fighting over it. Truly Starcraft is mechanically superior, which is why blizzard removed QoL changes they had in the previous patches so that players could give their queens attention.

I feel like Distant Worlds: Universe took a big step in the right direction by putting emphasis on simulating a lot of (societal and economical) models that we know we can have computers simulate to add depth and background to the game and give more weight and consequence to player action while allowing the universe to "populate itself" simply via these models and processes interacting with it.

Where are the other C&Cs?

practice.

>Oh boy do I love how there is literally no line of sight blockings, or how active abilities are extremely rare for non caster units or the terrain doesn't actually change dynamically as you keep fighting over it. Truly Starcraft is mechanically superior, which is why blizzard removed QoL changes they had in the previous patches so that players could give their queens attention.
WHO ARE YOU QUOTING

WHO?

Kill yourself already

Give me the data and I'll add it in

I would probably somehow list the resource types. Maybe in its own column and have the order be the same as the order for the columns on how the resources are collected.

Cossacks has 6 resources: wood is large spread, food is any (or large spread, but you still have to build a mill), stone is large spread, and gold; iron; and coal are single point.

Cossacks also has 20 factions, and probably would put unlimited for units per group.

Original War should be listed as sci-fi for its setting.

Playing against a wide variety of other players a lot

Starcraft's combat is inferior to company of heroes in nearly every fucking way, from it's actual calculations, to how it interacts with the game engine.

How about you fuck off and actually do what you are suggesting and off yourself.

Men of War Assault Squad 1/2 do this well. Pinning enemies down with frontal infantry fire/heavy tank armor while flanking them with infantry/armored cars is very rewarding. Shelling a loose formation of troops to keep them from advancing while you move around them is fucking cool. The game's weakness is it maps and faction repetition though.

There is nothing inherently superior or inferior. They are their own games with their own rules. Complexitiy is not always a better thing.

so, exactly what CoH2 does seamlessly?

Allied tanks are numerous and better on the move than german big cats, so they are all about aggressively flanking and using teamwork to knock the germans out, while the germans depend upon fixed AT guns or handheld AT to keep allied tanks at bay away from their tigers or panthers?

No its not because SC2 is strategic. THERES IS LITERALLY NOTHING TO COH

Nothing at fucking all beacause everything is poorly designed

>B-but you can cover
>B-but angle of tanks
>B-but pinned and whatever

Its literally pointless, you cannot outplay your opponent, you cannot do anything at all. The only reason the games arent over in 5 minutes is because like with DoW all the stupid restrictions which make end the game fucking annoying and tedious as fuck

Its not a progressive thing that escalates with the players decisions or anyhting like that

Its fucking stupid

And you are not going to tell me that it takes more skill than SC either specially SC1

and yet you post shit from babywatch.

SC2 is a technical fucking marvel of pathfinding I doubt most devs would be able to come close to replicating in 2016. Prove me wrong.

If you think the whole squad thing is a "game design" concern you are fucking deluded. They just did it so the engine wouldn't shit himself. And beneficial side effect was that retarded sloths suddenly were able to play the game.

SC2 is simple on the surface. The complexity arises from numbers and you know, playing against other people.

in the case of company of heroes, it is. The game is focused far more on combat than starcraft, and to that end has a much more rewarding combat system.

There is something to be said about plinking away at a german tank from max range with your m36 until it decides to attack and gets baited into a m20 mine.

>I would probably somehow list the resource types
Like "Food, Wood, Stone, Gold" under age of empires?